I'm in the process of doing my lads new hair salon, six years after doing his first venture, learnt so much from your videos and track saw fully deployed. if only I had bought a MFT and Domino!!! I've visited the scribing vids a few times - big thank you.
Upturned jigsaw with the Collins coping foot every time (now that I have one!). I tried most of the other methods before getting one! I quite liked using a Dremel for some of the fiddlier bits too! Great video again 🙂 thank you Peter
When I'm on site, I set the table saw to back cut 3-5 degrees and cut it to about 1/16 to 1/32 of the line by hand, without a fence. Then use the belt sander to bring it right to the line. I've got a small 3"x18" belt sander that works perfect for my scribes.
A series I have not seen, wow. Another way to get to final scribed dimension is to use a hand held grinder with a sanding disk. What your doing is the same technique we do for coping baseboard into a corner.
Peter - worth remembering to also put the back bevel on to the jigsaw or on to the rasp (in your example here). You have to remember that the undulations on the wall are in 3D, not just on the flat surface that you have scribed. The back bevel gives a bit of relief for these areas, yet still allows the face side to fit in nice and tight.
Thanks Chris, Appreciate you taking the time to comment. Worth remembering also that not all jigsaws can do bevel cuts (mine doesn’t, at least not without a separate base) and actually, following a scribe line can be quite tricky for the relative beginners that these videos are aimed at, without adding a further complication like freehand bevel cutting with a jigsaw. I also cover the ‘back bevel’ in Part 3 of the series, and at length in the accompanying blog post at bit.ly/10minuteBlog 👍👍
Hi Gary. I had a nice Festool RAS115 (spinning disc) sander that I had to stop using because the dust collection was so bad; abrasive disc on a grinder will be much worse IMHO, strictly for outside the clients home, so not for me 👍👍
Many ways to do the job, as you stated. I have found that a down-cut jigsaw blade ( used a lot for cutting laminate covered countertops) , works well without having to cut in the upside down mode. A bit of tape on the saw sole to protect the work and all is good. The rasp and spokeshave suggestions are a plus when dust abatement is an issue. I avoid the use of a belt sander inside a clients home as much as possible. Sometimes a scrap of wood with sandpaper glued to it is even better as it adds a shape to fit feature.
All solid points. That particular belt sander has pretty good DC, but always mindful of clients homes. I never got along with down-cut blades - always preferred to be able to see the cut line clearly, but if it works for you, there’s no reason to change. 👍👍
I've spent the past 12 hours watching your videos, love your style and all incredible information. As a complete novice, a lot of this stuff is that "I know what I want to do, and I can imagine how to do it, but I have no idea what it's called or how to do it well" haha. I was wondering "how do you trace the shape of cornicing?" and the answer is "scribing"! Now I just need to work out how the hell to do it without breaking another jigsaw blade...!
@@paulmcfadyen689 Except the idea of these videos is to de-mystify the process of scribing, not make folks feel bad because they don't have a tool designed to shave the spokes of wooden cartwheels, lol! Out of interest have you used one on MDF before? Curious how it would be significantly better than e.g. a rasp or microplane/surform type of tool. Thanks! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop no, to be fair I have not used one on mdf and to be honest I haven't seen my spoke shave in about 4 years🤣 but I imagine it would work fine...and if not...caulk is your friend
@@10MinuteWorkshop I'd be inclined to not use a plane on MDF though I have used a chisel. You have used a plane on MDF so a round bottomed spoke shave should be similar.
Peter, as someone scribes one thing or another just about everyday I'm telling you the RAS will improve your speed and accuracy. I use a circular saw to cut leaving the line then finish with RAS or block plane if the scribe has gentle curves. If the scribe has a lot of ins and outs like stone or brick I'll substitute the circular saw with a coping foot outfitted jigsaw. Same deal,mcut to line and sand the rest. For cabinet fillers to plaster or drywall very quick and easy. Stone and brick takes repeated attempts and lots of patience! As far as mdf or melamine rasps work but are very slow. Using chisels or planes on mdf or melamine will dull the edges very fast and is slow. The beltsander would be a better option although a duster one. Cheers Curt
Yep, Practice makes perfect😀. Still more interesting to me is the loose face frame. Here, Stateside, I am used to pre-attached face frames and having to scribe with the whole cabinet at an offset, different process for the cabinet install. I’ve even had to build face frames with additional width on the wall side and pre-beveled the back edge for a wall that’s particularly wonky. I’ve used a small hand-held belt sander for fine tuning, but the rasp or spoke shaves work equally well. Thanks for another well composed video, much appreciated.
European style cabinets (frameless) are starting to become more the norm here in the US, but I’ve been less than satisfied with my results when building in that style. I’ve generally stayed away from MDF, favoring plywood instead, but the quality of the latter has fallen off lately and those flaws are much easier to hide with a face frame milled from hardwood stock. One thing I’ve picked up on from your videos though is your use of “MR-MDF”, something I do not find at my suppliers. MDF has gotten better lately, but not up to the apparent level of the moisture resistant stuff you have access to in the UK. Access to that stuff may change my mind about using MDF in my cabinet builds, maybe even about going frame-less😉
Thanks Todd. Yes, MR MDF is something that does seem to be in short supply in the US. I had a subscriber on a stopover in London from Utah just yesterday, and the thing they wanted more than anything was to take a trip to my local timber yard to see the stacks of MR MDF! It is generally a much better quality board than regular MDF, for not much more money. 👍
I get great results by electric planing as close to the scribe line as possible and then using a orbital sander you can fine tune right up to the line.
I am about to install wardrobes i built for my master closet. I designed it to have a single large frame overlaying 3 boxes rather than 3 frames that i would have to join. I did build the frames already, should i remove the end stile that I will be scribing or is it possible to keep it on the frame? I did not plan to use a separate filler piece. Thank you for your videos.
New to me this, and I love it! May I offer something from a Welsh time-served carpenter and joiner? In college we were taught not to flush anything like this but to "Feature" it, either stagger it or put a vee in the flush joint. This is not a criticism, just an additional insight which doesn't change the accurate principle shown herein. Thank you, Peter.
For scribing I typically cut in on a bevel close to the line with a jigsaw than finish it off with an orbital sander. I find the sander is a little more accurate in the final stages.
Thanks again for your videos. I like using the jigsaw - but with a reverse blade! That way you don’t have to saw from the back side. Hope there will be people who realize how much easier it is to scribe when you’ve done a beveled cut first!!
Thanks Thomas. The benefits of the jigsaw upside down is that you keep the sole of the jigsaw off the infill, and you can see the cut line clearly. Just my experience, but the downcut blade tends to push the workpiece away from the saw, whereas the regular blade used upside down pulls them together. But whatever works 👍👍
Hi Peter, nice video. I think in this instance I would have reached for my spoke shaves, I always kept a flat a and curved bottom one in my kit when I went out on site.
Thanks Gary. Out of interest have you ever used a spokeshave on MDF or other man made boards? Lots of people have suggested one, but nobody seems to have used one for this specific purpose. I don't own one, and I try to keep the toolset simple/accessible for these videos, so rasps not spokeshaves, jigsaw, not bandsaw etc.. Good to hear it works for you though 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hi Peter, yes I have used them on mdf, mainly m/r mdf. The old Stanley number 64 & 65 are my favourites as they are relatively small and able to get in smaller undulations; not sure if they are still made but plenty always available on eBay. I am not obviously saying I don't use a rasp because I do, but more mainly for shorter undulations in a wall or to tidy an internal scribe on skirting board. Its surprising what you can use a spoke shave for, it really has many uses. I do own and use a vast amount of the latest equipment, but I do still get a lot of satisfaction out of using my old hand tools,I guess I am of that age.
Thanks Robert. Face-frames can sit flush with the inside edge of the cabinet, or extend beyond. It’s an entirely personal preference, completely up to the client. 🤷♂️👍
Hi Peter, I just watched your scribing video. Very informative. However, you don't mention the most useful tool for such scribes; the spokeshave. Once you've completed the back cut with the tracksaw, the spokeshave, along with a decent block plane is just the ticket.
Thanks Darren. Out of interest have you ever used a spokeshave on MDF or other man made boards? Lots of people have suggested one, but nobody seems to have used one for this specific purpose. I don't own one, and I try to keep the toolset simple/accessible for these videos, so rasps not spokeshaves, jigsaw, not bandsaw etc.. Sanding pad on a grinder? Never again, way too messy for me, but if it works for you and you're happy scribing outside, go for it. 👍👍
Yes nice and sharp cuts no problem and cut at a slight angle into the face ...leaves a crisp edge, also like a block plane you don’t have to worry about removing too much. Agree the angle grinder is messy, you do have to back cut first and leave little as possible but is great for getting to tighter spots
I clamp the workpiece to a table and use a belt sander, holding it perpendicular to the workpiece and making sure its sanding down onto the finished side so the ruffled side ends up hidden.
As I commented on the previous video, it seems to me that it would be easier to make the straight cut on the infill after doing the scribing rather than before it. That way you can be certain that the infill is the correct width with no need to find the maximum depth to be removed.
Great video Peter. I often run into this myself so far those same processes that you use are the same for me. I was hoping that you were to use the scribing jigs that you have as another way to scribe in a faceframe. Thats what i was looking forward to - when you introduced them in a previous video I was thoroughly intrigued and wanted more information before making a purchase. I would love to see them in action. Long time subscriber since a couple of month of your beginning - avid watcher of your videos and work! Thanks for putting your time and effort into giving us your information.
Thanks! The various scribing gadgets (block scribe, swanky scribe etc..) replicate a variety of ‘standard’ thicknesses - very handy if you’re fitting cabinets you didn’t make, or don’t have an off cut from the cabinet. Some folks prefer a pair of compasses or eg the trend easyscribe as they have a much wider range, but the various scribing blocks are very useful. The purpose of the series though is to try and de-mystify the whole process, and show the many ways in which you can achieve the same result. With the face-frame it make sense (esp for a newcomer) to use scrap blocks as the gauge or offset, as it makes the process simpler. 👍👍
How’s the dust collection? 🤔 I used a Festool RAS 115 (spinning disc sander) for a little while, had to stop as it was such a mess, but if it works for you 🤷♂️👍👍
Hi Peter... Working of the premise that you would measure the job...and then construct the cabinets at your workshop...making the face frames up at the shop with door hung on the face frame with standard hinges etc... Frames being made a tad larger to allow for scribing to fit on site.... How would you go about this task?...as in the video you are just using a strip of timber/MDF etc...and not an actual frame between two walls, which would be too big for the actual opening in which it was going to be fitted. Or.... do you assemble the face frames on site?
DIYer here, so this isn't my area of expertise, but I dislike jigsaws [ wobbly at the best of times] and that technique - wow- need your 10,000hrs for that one! My preference would be the band saw [maybe with a gentle tilt] and then creep up with the rasp or maybe try a hand held belt sander. In fantasy land I imagine a device to cut a groove, in the wall, parallel to the carcas, referencing off the carcas side. With settings for 6 -12 - 18mm slots and variable depth to channel past the highest bumps, then a straight piece of infil will pop in nicely....lol
Thing is Keith, most scribing happens on an install, and not many peeps want to lug a bandsaw around with them! Different if it’s your home with easy access to your workshop, of course. Upside-down jigsaw is pretty straightforward, as the blade pulls the scribe onto the base of the jigsaw keeping it steady, and you can see the blade and cut line very clearly👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop As a DIYer I have the luxury of disliking 'on site' work, because I always find the tool you need [right in the middle of a job] is the one you left behind, convinced you wouldn't need it. I'd be squeezing every semi-portable power I could into the van lol. Seriously tho' you have me wondering about this inverted use of jigsaw [you see many YT vids about people making little jigs to achieve just that. Maybe it should be the prescribed [no pun] method of using them and as you say a commercial jig is available. Are we about to see an evolutionary jump in the jigsaw design/manu ?
Excellent videos. How about scribing against a rock/stone wall? My current project is in a home with rough rock so the scribed filler sometimes gets tucked behind a piece of rock and there are gaps between the rocks.
As mentioned in Part1, scribing to a wall with fine detail (brick, rock etc...) needs a finer scribe; you can do it with a pair of compasses, or any of the other scribing tools I discussed in that video. 👍👍
I'm not THAT comfortable using the upside down jigsaw method but of course what you can do is use a downcut blade. These can take a bit of getting used to though as you need to hold them to the work more firmly. Good video thanks 👍
Thanks. A regular blade in an upside down jigsaw 1/keeps the shoe off the workpiece 2/ keeps the cut line clear and the blade clearly visible, and 3/ pulls the workpiece into the jigsaw, instead of pushing it away. Personally I’ve had note issues with diwncut blades, but as I say in the vid, use whatever you’re comfortable with. 👍
I don't recommend it unless you're a professional, but I like cutting backwards with a circular saw and with a severe bevel. Then finish with a belt sander connected to a vacuum.
Hi Peter. Maybe a little tip: Scribing such a line goes very well with a ball bearing and a pencel fitting in its hole (or make it fitting). No matter what you do the distance is always correct. All you have to do is making a distance block as you did with the right thickness. With the round shape of the ball bearing you can copy every fine shape to your workpiece. Also it works extremely smooth, because of the ball bearing ;)
Thanks Matthias. Yes, lots of ways to achieve this - washers, little wooden discs, or many of the scribe gadgets I showed in part 1. "All you have to do is making a distance block as you did with the right thickness..." This video series is aimed at people new to scribing, so anything that makes the process simpler is good; just using an offcut of the offset block you already have is simple. Good you've found something you're happy with though. 👍👍
Microplane is better than rasp - use a downcut blade in the jigsaw ( laminate blade ie bosch t101br ) - allows cutting from above but needs pressure on the saw to prevent lift.
Whatever works for you; I prefer the upside down method as it keep the sole of the jigsaw off a ore-finished infill, and it’s easier to see the cutline. Also a regular blade pulls the workpiece onto the jigsaw, rather than pushes it away. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Think if you cut away most waste using track saw at an angle the jig blade isn't doing much work to remove the bumps and dimples - a length of masking tape would help preserve finish. Cutting from above is easier if you haven't practised the below cut method - each to his own
Personally, I use my specially- trained beaver & he also takes care of dust collection at the same time... I just hafta keep an eye on me bisquits 🙄🤨 Nice vid Pete !! 😎👍☘🍺
As I said in P1 you pick your method for the detail you need; on a gently undulating wall like this the off cut is fine. Against brickwork you need a pair of compasses, the tri scribe, the star scribe, easy scribe etc... 👍
Whatever works for you Peter, but a regular blade in an upside down jigsaw 1/keeps the shoe off the workpiece 2/ keeps the cut line clear and the blade clearly visible, and 3/ pulls the workpiece into the jigsaw, instead of pushing it away. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop All true. Can't deny it. But when I watched you do that in video #1 I cringed. Your fingers were so close to the blade. Could have have been an optical illusion though. 🤷🏻♂️ Maybe next time clamp the work piece for my benefit so I don't have to cover my eyes. 👍🏻😂
Which is what we did in Part 1; here in Part 2 we're exploring other ways of doing this, with different techniques and processes. Prefer the upside-down jigsaw method myself - keeps the infill clean, and you can see the blade/cut-line. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop covered in part 1 with you criticising yourself over "wobbly" as I remember. Prefer the reverse cutting blade myself, better control of saw and really no different to standard blade in regard to view of cut line.
@@gbwildlifeuk8269 A bit wobbly because, as I said in the video, it's the first one I've done for a while, and it was a dead straight line between the bumps 🤷♂️
Hi Peter, I would have thought a band saw would be much better to cut the face frame. With a 1/4 inch blade, it would have given you the ability to cut right to the line and you could angle the base of the band saw the same as the track saw.
Don’t disagree John, but scribing infills is always done on site during an install; how many people want to take a bandsaw with them on an install? (And yes, I did it once but that was for comedy value!)
@@10MinuteWorkshop oh I see , I thought I’d seen videos where you had sent things off to clients? What is your occupation now then if you don’t mind me asking?
As I say at the start of Part 1, the problem with scribing is that you only ever do it during an install, so it’s hard to shoot clear video on the subject as you’re under time-pressure, and working in less than ideal conditions. I’ve mocked this up in the workshop to show the process clearly, but using tools you’d only have available to you on an install. So, belt-sanders and jigsaws, not bobbin sanders and bandsaws. Make sense? 👍👍
Hi Peter. You have a perfectly good band saw. Use it. I used mine for the same issue with the kitchen cabinet face frames. It came out perfect every time, with maybe the just the smallest amount of caulk to fill the gaps. It's so much quicker than setting up the track saw & rasping the remainder. It also has the downward cut, which means no chip-out. Try it, you may be surprised. G
Hey Gary. As I say in Part 1, scribing only really happens during an install, and not many folks lug a bandsaw with them to an install 🤷♂️ Just trying to keep the toolset realistic; if you’re working in your own home and have access to a bandsaw, then sure, best tool for the job. 👍👍
Actually, that's a very good point. Sorry, I must have missed that bit when I saw you cutting with an upside down jigsaw. & without gloves. Seriously though Peter, there's a lot of diyer's out there. I just want people to be safe around power tools. Remember your chop saw incident??
No problem Gary - and sure I remember, I ‘fessed up to that one right there on camera. In all seriousness though, I’ve seen more near-accidents happen with downcut blades in a jigsaw as the blade pushes the saw up out of the workpiece; using a regular blade with the jigsaw upside down keeps the cut-line clear and the blade clearly visible. I agree though, that there have been enough comments on the whole downcut blade thing that it deserves a follow-on 👍👍
Sorry, Peter, but unless I'm mishearing, you're saying minimum distance when you set the adjustable square. Don't you mean maximum distance? And apols if this has been covered in a previous comment.
Hi David. No, you set the minimum distance **including the offset** so that your infill fits into the space available. Then you scribe against the wall using your offset block, or eg a pair of compasses set to that distance. Hope that helps! 👍
Set a bevel on the jigsaw and practice,practice,practice. Especially if you ever encounter a scribe in an old Victorian house with all the intricate dados, skirting and coving.🙄 those can take a huge amount of time. 😂
I covered the jigsaw method in Part 1, and it comes up again in Part 3. Lots of jiggys don’t do bevel cuts without a base change which is why I avoided it, and as I say in this vid, I can use the tracksaw here because it’s particularly flat/straight between the bumps. But yeah practice, always 😂👍👍
Hi Peter Again, you are doing this the hard way. All that "fiddling around" with blocks and double sided tape and masking tape. I appreciate what you are trying to show, BUT It really is MUCH EASIER than you make it out to be. Using a plane ??? Using a rasp??? All you need for this is an angle grinder with a flap disk (sanding wheel). This will make short work of the requirements, FASTER, EASIER and HIGHLY accurate. This can be done on site as an angle grinder is easy to carry around. :-) Best wishes Regards Peter Sanders
It is educational to see different ways to do things; not everyone has an angle grinder, nor needs one for their day-to-day life. I might only have a rasp and a plane, or maybe I only have a jigsaw - seeing techniques is instructional, and may give inspiration for how to use a different tool that I have.
I find myself oddly satisfied you got the one at the end so close. I do wonder if a very sharp chisel upside down would be useful to scoop those low points out to a high prescecion
Hi Peter , thanks for doing this series. I always cocked them up when trying to do an infil in the past, but this series has really unlocked the secret of getting a good scribe. A quick question , how do you go about tackling a very deep/wide dado rail that is wider than the thickness of your carcass ? . would you have to make the offset greater than the dado width/depth. Once more thanks for doig this series , i am sure many people will be learning a great deal from it. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Glenn! Really good to hear that it’s hitting the right mark! I get into the ‘extreme scribe’ situation in Friday’s video - specifically about scribing to a ceiling, but only because that’s where you get the most extreme variations. In short though, yes, you make sure that the offset+carcass thickness > the scribe depth. 👍👍
Thanks. Not sure what I’d use one for tbh - I’ve managed scribes without one so far, and they’d have few applications for building the kind of cabinets and carcasses I make. 👍👍
Messy though. I had a RAS 115 sander for Festool that was pretty much the same thing; but with a semblance of dust collection. Still too messy for me though. 🤷♂️👍
Could work; don’t own one, never used one on MDF - have you? Also, these vids are aimed at relative newcomers, so I try and keep the tool set fairly simple 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop a spoke shave will work as well as a plane, it's just got a much shorter sole so can follow undulations better and you can get a cheap one from Amazon for a fiver.
When I was college we were expected to scribe a length of architrave with a coping saw! I wouldn’t be surprised if whoever thought that task up either had been a teacher all his life or just really disliked us
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This is EXACTLY the solution I was looking for. Thank you for sharing your CRAFT & WISDOM with us mere mortals. SUBSCRIBED!
Thanks, and welcome! 🙌👍👍
Best scribing tutorial I’ve seen
I'm in the process of doing my lads new hair salon, six years after doing his first venture, learnt so much from your videos and track saw fully deployed. if only I had bought a MFT and Domino!!! I've visited the scribing vids a few times - big thank you.
Upturned jigsaw with the Collins coping foot every time (now that I have one!). I tried most of the other methods before getting one! I quite liked using a Dremel for some of the fiddlier bits too! Great video again 🙂 thank you Peter
Have done many scribes. Learned new techniques here, wonderful.
Thank you! 👌👍
When I'm on site, I set the table saw to back cut 3-5 degrees and cut it to about 1/16 to 1/32 of the line by hand, without a fence. Then use the belt sander to bring it right to the line. I've got a small 3"x18" belt sander that works perfect for my scribes.
Thanks! We get to the small belt sander in P3; I have the little 21/2” DeWalt, like the Porter cable, great for one-handed use. 👍
A series I have not seen, wow. Another way to get to final scribed dimension is to use a hand held grinder with a sanding disk. What your doing is the same technique we do for coping baseboard into a corner.
Peter - worth remembering to also put the back bevel on to the jigsaw or on to the rasp (in your example here). You have to remember that the undulations on the wall are in 3D, not just on the flat surface that you have scribed. The back bevel gives a bit of relief for these areas, yet still allows the face side to fit in nice and tight.
Thanks Chris, Appreciate you taking the time to comment. Worth remembering also that not all jigsaws can do bevel cuts (mine doesn’t, at least not without a separate base) and actually, following a scribe line can be quite tricky for the relative beginners that these videos are aimed at, without adding a further complication like freehand bevel cutting with a jigsaw. I also cover the ‘back bevel’ in Part 3 of the series, and at length in the accompanying blog post at bit.ly/10minuteBlog
👍👍
Hi Peter, I use a grinder with a soft pad. Works a treat.
Hi Gary. I had a nice Festool RAS115 (spinning disc) sander that I had to stop using because the dust collection was so bad; abrasive disc on a grinder will be much worse IMHO, strictly for outside the clients home, so not for me 👍👍
Many ways to do the job, as you stated. I have found that a down-cut jigsaw blade ( used a lot for cutting laminate covered countertops) , works well without having to cut in the upside down mode. A bit of tape on the saw sole to protect the work and all is good. The rasp and spokeshave suggestions are a plus when dust abatement is an issue. I avoid the use of a belt sander inside a clients home as much as possible. Sometimes a scrap of wood with sandpaper glued to it is even better as it adds a shape to fit feature.
All solid points. That particular belt sander has pretty good DC, but always mindful of clients homes. I never got along with down-cut blades - always preferred to be able to see the cut line clearly, but if it works for you, there’s no reason to change. 👍👍
Very clever Peter
I tend to do mine with the festool jigsaw And for them awkward bits are use my belt sander
I use a flap disc on an angle grinder for the profiling .. much quicker :)
Excellent Peter and a very good informative video mate
Thank you! 👍
Great tip about the bevel cut Peter!
I've spent the past 12 hours watching your videos, love your style and all incredible information. As a complete novice, a lot of this stuff is that "I know what I want to do, and I can imagine how to do it, but I have no idea what it's called or how to do it well" haha. I was wondering "how do you trace the shape of cornicing?" and the answer is "scribing"! Now I just need to work out how the hell to do it without breaking another jigsaw blade...!
I've seen a cordless grinder with sanding disk worked superb
I like the bevel cut and rasp idea. Wonder how would a SPOKE PLANE do rather than the small block plane for the minor undulations!
Spoke shave could work - I don’t have one and have never used one on MDF, but sure, if you have one give it a try 👍👍
Absolutely! Spoke shave would have been perfect for the job
@@paulmcfadyen689 Except the idea of these videos is to de-mystify the process of scribing, not make folks feel bad because they don't have a tool designed to shave the spokes of wooden cartwheels, lol! Out of interest have you used one on MDF before? Curious how it would be significantly better than e.g. a rasp or microplane/surform type of tool. Thanks! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop no, to be fair I have not used one on mdf and to be honest I haven't seen my spoke shave in about 4 years🤣 but I imagine it would work fine...and if not...caulk is your friend
@@10MinuteWorkshop I'd be inclined to not use a plane on MDF though I have used a chisel. You have used a plane on MDF so a round bottomed spoke shave should be similar.
Thanks for the video. Very instructive. Just used it to scribe in a skirting board to a very bad floor level along one wall.
I've recently started using the jig saw close to the line then fine tune with a small power file , works good for me .
Nice! 👍👍
Peter, as someone scribes one thing or another just about everyday I'm telling you the RAS will improve your speed and accuracy. I use a circular saw to cut leaving the line then finish with RAS or block plane if the scribe has gentle curves. If the scribe has a lot of ins and outs like stone or brick I'll substitute the circular saw with a coping foot outfitted jigsaw. Same deal,mcut to line and sand the rest. For cabinet fillers to plaster or drywall very quick and easy. Stone and brick takes repeated attempts and lots of patience! As far as mdf or melamine rasps work but are very slow. Using chisels or planes on mdf or melamine will dull the edges very fast and is slow. The beltsander would be a better option although a duster one.
Cheers
Curt
RAS? On this side of the pond that would be a radial arm saw, obviously not what you are using. What do you mean by a RAS?
Doug Garson The Festool RAS115 sander, and I’m in Philly.
OK, not being a Festool guy the only RAS I'm know is the saw, thanks for clarifying.
Yep, Practice makes perfect😀. Still more interesting to me is the loose face frame. Here, Stateside, I am used to pre-attached face frames and having to scribe with the whole cabinet at an offset, different process for the cabinet install. I’ve even had to build face frames with additional width on the wall side and pre-beveled the back edge for a wall that’s particularly wonky. I’ve used a small hand-held belt sander for fine tuning, but the rasp or spoke shaves work equally well. Thanks for another well composed video, much appreciated.
Thanks Todd! Wow, permanently fixed face-frames - sounds like a nightmare! 👍🤷♂️
European style cabinets (frameless) are starting to become more the norm here in the US, but I’ve been less than satisfied with my results when building in that style. I’ve generally stayed away from MDF, favoring plywood instead, but the quality of the latter has fallen off lately and those flaws are much easier to hide with a face frame milled from hardwood stock. One thing I’ve picked up on from your videos though is your use of “MR-MDF”, something I do not find at my suppliers. MDF has gotten better lately, but not up to the apparent level of the moisture resistant stuff you have access to in the UK. Access to that stuff may change my mind about using MDF in my cabinet builds, maybe even about going frame-less😉
Thanks Todd. Yes, MR MDF is something that does seem to be in short supply in the US. I had a subscriber on a stopover in London from Utah just yesterday, and the thing they wanted more than anything was to take a trip to my local timber yard to see the stacks of MR MDF! It is generally a much better quality board than regular MDF, for not much more money. 👍
I get great results by electric planing as close to the scribe line as possible and then using a orbital sander you can fine tune right up to the line.
I am about to install wardrobes i built for my master closet. I designed it to have a single large frame overlaying 3 boxes rather than 3 frames that i would have to join. I did build the frames already, should i remove the end stile that I will be scribing or is it possible to keep it on the frame? I did not plan to use a separate filler piece. Thank you for your videos.
Peter, if you want to use a plane, a spokeshave would be much better than a block plane, unless you have some straight lines to work to
Hi Peter. Another great video. Keep up the good work. thanks.
Cheers Craig! 👍👍
New to me this, and I love it! May I offer something from a Welsh time-served carpenter and joiner? In college we were taught not to flush anything like this but to "Feature" it, either stagger it or put a vee in the flush joint. This is not a criticism, just an additional insight which doesn't change the accurate principle shown herein. Thank you, Peter.
Thanks very much for the info Peter, it’s been very helpful to a (novice) DIYer
For scribing I typically cut in on a bevel close to the line with a jigsaw than finish it off with an orbital sander. I find the sander is a little more accurate in the final stages.
would a spoke shave not do that very nicely?
Curve Faced Spoke Planes are great for this and cost very little.
Thanks again for your videos. I like using the jigsaw - but with a reverse blade! That way you don’t have to saw from the back side. Hope there will be people who realize how much easier it is to scribe when you’ve done a beveled cut first!!
Thanks Thomas. The benefits of the jigsaw upside down is that you keep the sole of the jigsaw off the infill, and you can see the cut line clearly. Just my experience, but the downcut blade tends to push the workpiece away from the saw, whereas the regular blade used upside down pulls them together. But whatever works 👍👍
Peter Millard Yeah that’s right. Use your muscles!! 😉
Hi Peter, nice video. I think in this instance I would have reached for my spoke shaves, I always kept a flat a and curved bottom one in my kit when I went out on site.
Thanks Gary. Out of interest have you ever used a spokeshave on MDF or other man made boards? Lots of people have suggested one, but nobody seems to have used one for this specific purpose. I don't own one, and I try to keep the toolset simple/accessible for these videos, so rasps not spokeshaves, jigsaw, not bandsaw etc.. Good to hear it works for you though 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hi Peter, yes I have used them on mdf, mainly m/r mdf. The old Stanley number 64 & 65 are my favourites as they are relatively small and able to get in smaller undulations; not sure if they are still made but plenty always available on eBay. I am not obviously saying I don't use a rasp because I do, but more mainly for shorter undulations in a wall or to tidy an internal scribe on skirting board.
Its surprising what you can use a spoke shave for, it really has many uses. I do own and use a vast amount of the latest equipment, but I do still get a lot of satisfaction out of using my old hand tools,I guess I am of that age.
Great vid as always, thanks Peter. But why would you want an offset intruding past the cabinet inside edge into the cabinet?
Thanks Robert. Face-frames can sit flush with the inside edge of the cabinet, or extend beyond. It’s an entirely personal preference, completely up to the client. 🤷♂️👍
Hi Peter,
I just watched your scribing video. Very informative. However, you don't mention the most useful tool for such scribes; the spokeshave. Once you've completed the back cut with the tracksaw, the spokeshave, along with a decent block plane is just the ticket.
Great idea! Must get one of those but a block plane twisted sideways gets it done perfectly.
Sod that poncing about with block planes and upside down jigsaws. Either palm router about £19 off ebay or belt sander with a 80 - 120 grit belt.
Peter a convex spokeshave works great for this or an angle grinder with a sanding pad is really fast but takes practice
Thanks Darren. Out of interest have you ever used a spokeshave on MDF or other man made boards? Lots of people have suggested one, but nobody seems to have used one for this specific purpose. I don't own one, and I try to keep the toolset simple/accessible for these videos, so rasps not spokeshaves, jigsaw, not bandsaw etc.. Sanding pad on a grinder? Never again, way too messy for me, but if it works for you and you're happy scribing outside, go for it. 👍👍
Yes nice and sharp cuts no problem and cut at a slight angle into the face ...leaves a crisp edge, also like a block plane you don’t have to worry about removing too much. Agree the angle grinder is messy, you do have to back cut first and leave little as possible but is great for getting to tighter spots
I clamp the workpiece to a table and use a belt sander, holding it perpendicular to the workpiece and making sure its sanding down onto the finished side so the ruffled side ends up hidden.
As I commented on the previous video, it seems to me that it would be easier to make the straight cut on the infill after doing the scribing rather than before it. That way you can be certain that the infill is the correct width with no need to find the maximum depth to be removed.
But when the straight edge of the infill is a finished edge, which it usually always is...🤷♂️
Great video Peter. I often run into this myself so far those same processes that you use are the same for me. I was hoping that you were to use the scribing jigs that you have as another way to scribe in a faceframe. Thats what i was looking forward to - when you introduced them in a previous video I was thoroughly intrigued and wanted more information before making a purchase. I would love to see them in action. Long time subscriber since a couple of month of your beginning - avid watcher of your videos and work! Thanks for putting your time and effort into giving us your information.
Thanks! The various scribing gadgets (block scribe, swanky scribe etc..) replicate a variety of ‘standard’ thicknesses - very handy if you’re fitting cabinets you didn’t make, or don’t have an off cut from the cabinet. Some folks prefer a pair of compasses or eg the trend easyscribe as they have a much wider range, but the various scribing blocks are very useful. The purpose of the series though is to try and de-mystify the whole process, and show the many ways in which you can achieve the same result. With the face-frame it make sense (esp for a newcomer) to use scrap blocks as the gauge or offset, as it makes the process simpler. 👍👍
Thanks again Peter. Very nice pre-lunch break...cheers...rr Normandy, France
Thanks Richard! 👍👍
Way late to the party with the comment but I used a spokeshave to cut the MDF on a bevelled edge for my bathroom boxing in. Worked great!
Me too, works great for ply too
Great video but I’m a little curious to know how you are going to fit the door to the carcass as there isn’t any room for it?
Inset door. 👍
I’ve started using a Flap disc in a 110mm grinder , getting good results
How’s the dust collection? 🤔 I used a Festool RAS 115 (spinning disc sander) for a little while, had to stop as it was such a mess, but if it works for you 🤷♂️👍👍
Shite to be honest , but it’s quick
😂👍👍
Great 👍 video as always Peter. Rotex works really well on those dips too. 👍
Thanks Peter. Yes - still pretty tight, though, even for an RO90 👍
Peter Millard I always try to do it with an edge of a disc if you know what I mean.
does this mean its not a good idea to use frameless cabinets up against a wall?
Another great video Peter,well explained and demoed! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Cheers Alan! 👍👍
Would a spokeshave work to "plane" out those hollows?
Yes, if I owned one! - more in this in the accompanying blog post at 10minuteworkshop.com.
Hi Peter... Working of the premise that you would measure the job...and then construct the cabinets at your workshop...making the face frames up at the shop with door hung on the face frame with standard hinges etc... Frames being made a tad larger to allow for scribing to fit on site.... How would you go about this task?...as in the video you are just using a strip of timber/MDF etc...and not an actual frame between two walls, which would be too big for the actual opening in which it was going to be fitted. Or.... do you assemble the face frames on site?
Face frames are almost always assembled onsite for this reason. 👍
Ótimo vídeo Peter, muito bem explicado! Obrigado.
Obrigado Rafael! Muito prazer em saber que ajudou! Melhores votos de Londres. 👍
DIYer here, so this isn't my area of expertise, but I dislike jigsaws [ wobbly at the best of times] and that technique - wow- need your 10,000hrs for that one! My preference would be the band saw [maybe with a gentle tilt] and then creep up with the rasp or maybe try a hand held belt sander. In fantasy land I imagine a device to cut a groove, in the wall, parallel to the carcas, referencing off the carcas side. With settings for 6 -12 - 18mm slots and variable depth to channel past the highest bumps, then a straight piece of infil will pop in nicely....lol
Thing is Keith, most scribing happens on an install, and not many peeps want to lug a bandsaw around with them! Different if it’s your home with easy access to your workshop, of course. Upside-down jigsaw is pretty straightforward, as the blade pulls the scribe onto the base of the jigsaw keeping it steady, and you can see the blade and cut line very clearly👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop As a DIYer I have the luxury of disliking 'on site' work, because I always find the tool you need [right in the middle of a job] is the one you left behind, convinced you wouldn't need it. I'd be squeezing every semi-portable power I could into the van lol. Seriously tho' you have me wondering about this inverted use of jigsaw [you see many YT vids about people making little jigs to achieve just that. Maybe it should be the prescribed [no pun] method of using them and as you say a commercial jig is available. Are we about to see an evolutionary jump in the jigsaw design/manu ?
Excellent videos.
How about scribing against a rock/stone wall? My current project is in a home with rough rock so the scribed filler sometimes gets tucked behind a piece of rock and there are gaps between the rocks.
As mentioned in Part1, scribing to a wall with fine detail (brick, rock etc...) needs a finer scribe; you can do it with a pair of compasses, or any of the other scribing tools I discussed in that video. 👍👍
I'm not THAT comfortable using the upside down jigsaw method but of course what you can do is use a downcut blade. These can take a bit of getting used to though as you need to hold them to the work more firmly. Good video thanks 👍
Thanks. A regular blade in an upside down jigsaw 1/keeps the shoe off the workpiece 2/ keeps the cut line clear and the blade clearly visible, and 3/ pulls the workpiece into the jigsaw, instead of pushing it away. Personally I’ve had note issues with diwncut blades, but as I say in the vid, use whatever you’re comfortable with. 👍
I don't recommend it unless you're a professional, but I like cutting backwards with a circular saw and with a severe bevel. Then finish with a belt sander connected to a vacuum.
I’ve enjoyed this series so far and look forward to part 3. About some of those tight ares as you scribe, would a spoke shave work? Just a thought?
Thanks! Yes, if you have one -I don’t, and not sure I’d recommend anyone buy one just for this when a rasp will do the job 👍👍
Wow I don't think I have seen the phrase spokeshave since I was 10 years old in woodwork shop at school
I was about to suggest the same thing. They're available relatively cheaply, even a Chinese low quality one would suffice.
Thought of using a spoke shave?
I don’t own one, so no! 😂 Ever used one on MDF? Curious what the cut would be like?? 🤔🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop 'orrible.
Spoke shave not the tool for this application, they work well for shaving hairy spokes though🤭🤔🤣
Hi Peter. Maybe a little tip: Scribing such a line goes very well with a ball bearing and a pencel fitting in its hole (or make it fitting). No matter what you do the distance is always correct. All you have to do is making a distance block as you did with the right thickness.
With the round shape of the ball bearing you can copy every fine shape to your workpiece. Also it works extremely smooth, because of the ball bearing ;)
Thanks Matthias. Yes, lots of ways to achieve this - washers, little wooden discs, or many of the scribe gadgets I showed in part 1. "All you have to do is making a distance block as you did with the right thickness..." This video series is aimed at people new to scribing, so anything that makes the process simpler is good; just using an offcut of the offset block you already have is simple. Good you've found something you're happy with though. 👍👍
Hi Peter Found it useful? You bet! Informative as ever always look forward to you hints and tips. PS now a big Festool’s fan
Steve
Thanks! 👍👍
Microplane is better than rasp - use a downcut blade in the jigsaw ( laminate blade ie bosch t101br ) - allows cutting from above but needs pressure on the saw to prevent lift.
Whatever works for you; I prefer the upside down method as it keep the sole of the jigsaw off a ore-finished infill, and it’s easier to see the cutline. Also a regular blade pulls the workpiece onto the jigsaw, rather than pushes it away. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Think if you cut away most waste using track saw at an angle the jig blade isn't doing much work to remove the bumps and dimples - a length of masking tape would help preserve finish. Cutting from above is easier if you haven't practised the below cut method - each to his own
Personally, I use my specially- trained beaver & he also takes care of dust collection at the same time... I just hafta keep an eye on me bisquits 🙄🤨
Nice vid Pete !!
😎👍☘🍺
😂😂 Ah, if only I could afford a ‘scribing beaver’ lol! 😂😂👍👍
Or call the Gyprocker and tell him to straighten the wall 😂
I’ve always used a small metal washer to mark the scribe line. Doesn’t the wooden block miss too much detail?
As I said in P1 you pick your method for the detail you need; on a gently undulating wall like this the off cut is fine. Against brickwork you need a pair of compasses, the tri scribe, the star scribe, easy scribe etc... 👍
Peter Millard fair point, I hadn’t watched the previous video.
Would a 45° back bevel make for a closer (and less removal) fit?
45* makes for a very skinny edge, especially in MDF; ~15* bevel gives a bit more ‘meat l’ to the edge 👍👍
Try clamping the jigsaw upside down in a workmate. That way, you can use both hands to guide the work piece.
Poor mans bandsaw; never had much success with it personally, but if it works for you, great 👍👍
Downward cutting jigsaw blade. 👍🏻
Whatever works for you Peter, but a regular blade in an upside down jigsaw 1/keeps the shoe off the workpiece 2/ keeps the cut line clear and the blade clearly visible, and 3/ pulls the workpiece into the jigsaw, instead of pushing it away. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop
All true. Can't deny it.
But when I watched you do that in video #1 I cringed. Your fingers were so close to the blade.
Could have have been an optical illusion though. 🤷🏻♂️
Maybe next time clamp the work piece for my benefit so I don't have to cover my eyes. 👍🏻😂
Nice work, mate. 👍🏽
Cheers Bill! 👍
Compasses and jigsaw with reverse cutting blade. Done!
Which is what we did in Part 1; here in Part 2 we're exploring other ways of doing this, with different techniques and processes. Prefer the upside-down jigsaw method myself - keeps the infill clean, and you can see the blade/cut-line. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop covered in part 1 with you criticising yourself over "wobbly" as I remember.
Prefer the reverse cutting blade myself, better control of saw and really no different to standard blade in regard to view of cut line.
@@gbwildlifeuk8269 A bit wobbly because, as I said in the video, it's the first one I've done for a while, and it was a dead straight line between the bumps 🤷♂️
One shape to rule them all!😂
😂😂👍👍
Hi how about L shape filler its complic6
Hi Peter, I would have thought a band saw would be much better to cut the face frame. With a 1/4 inch blade, it would have given you the ability to cut right to the line and you could angle the base of the band saw the same as the track saw.
Don’t disagree John, but scribing infills is always done on site during an install; how many people want to take a bandsaw with them on an install? (And yes, I did it once but that was for comedy value!)
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yes I can see that would be problematic unless you were very strong.
Or had a very small bandsaw... 😂👍
Peter do you do this for a living ? Fitted furniture etc?
Not any more, but I did for ~20 years or so. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop oh I see , I thought I’d seen videos where you had sent things off to clients? What is your occupation now then if you don’t mind me asking?
I must be missing something, couldn't you use the nice drum sander you had on you bench Triton or something
As I say at the start of Part 1, the problem with scribing is that you only ever do it during an install, so it’s hard to shoot clear video on the subject as you’re under time-pressure, and working in less than ideal conditions. I’ve mocked this up in the workshop to show the process clearly, but using tools you’d only have available to you on an install. So, belt-sanders and jigsaws, not bobbin sanders and bandsaws. Make sense? 👍👍
So useful. Thank you
Thanks! 👍
Wouldn't the band saw be ideal for this, or are you avoiding using it as in reality you wouldn't have it at a real install?
💥 Exactly that. We may be in the workshop, but it’s an install in every sense. 👍👍
a spokeshave would work i think
Peter does this tool work for Ikea metod cabinets?
I don’t know I’m sorry.
@@10MinuteWorkshop alright! I'll make jig with 3d printer Rhen :)
Hi Peter. You have a perfectly good band saw. Use it. I used mine for the same issue with the kitchen cabinet face frames. It came out perfect every time, with maybe the just the smallest amount of caulk to fill the gaps. It's so much quicker than setting up the track saw & rasping the remainder. It also has the downward cut, which means no chip-out. Try it, you may be surprised. G
Hey Gary. As I say in Part 1, scribing only really happens during an install, and not many folks lug a bandsaw with them to an install 🤷♂️ Just trying to keep the toolset realistic; if you’re working in your own home and have access to a bandsaw, then sure, best tool for the job. 👍👍
Actually, that's a very good point. Sorry, I must have missed that bit when I saw you cutting with an upside down jigsaw. & without gloves. Seriously though Peter, there's a lot of diyer's out there. I just want people to be safe around power tools. Remember your chop saw incident??
No problem Gary - and sure I remember, I ‘fessed up to that one right there on camera. In all seriousness though, I’ve seen more near-accidents happen with downcut blades in a jigsaw as the blade pushes the saw up out of the workpiece; using a regular blade with the jigsaw upside down keeps the cut-line clear and the blade clearly visible. I agree though, that there have been enough comments on the whole downcut blade thing that it deserves a follow-on 👍👍
A draw knife maybe useful
Thanks Peter
Sorry, Peter, but unless I'm mishearing, you're saying minimum distance when you set the adjustable square. Don't you mean maximum distance? And apols if this has been covered in a previous comment.
Hi David. No, you set the minimum distance **including the offset** so that your infill fits into the space available. Then you scribe against the wall using your offset block, or eg a pair of compasses set to that distance. Hope that helps! 👍
AWESME!!
Set a bevel on the jigsaw and practice,practice,practice. Especially if you ever encounter a scribe in an old Victorian house with all the intricate dados, skirting and coving.🙄 those can take a huge amount of time. 😂
I covered the jigsaw method in Part 1, and it comes up again in Part 3. Lots of jiggys don’t do bevel cuts without a base change which is why I avoided it, and as I say in this vid, I can use the tracksaw here because it’s particularly flat/straight between the bumps. But yeah practice, always 😂👍👍
always used compasses works 4 me!
Covered that in Part 1 😆 Glad it works for you. 👍
Me too everytime.
Why not use a spokeshave?
Ud get a spokeshave in there
Hi Peter
Again, you are doing this the hard way. All that "fiddling around" with blocks and double sided tape and masking tape. I appreciate what you are trying to show, BUT It really is MUCH EASIER than you make it out to be.
Using a plane ???
Using a rasp???
All you need for this is an angle grinder with a flap disk (sanding wheel). This will make short work of the requirements, FASTER, EASIER and HIGHLY accurate. This can be done on site as an angle grinder is easy to carry around. :-)
Best wishes
Regards Peter Sanders
It is educational to see different ways to do things; not everyone has an angle grinder, nor needs one for their day-to-day life. I might only have a rasp and a plane, or maybe I only have a jigsaw - seeing techniques is instructional, and may give inspiration for how to use a different tool that I have.
@@cricalix apart from that who wants all the dust a grinder would generate?
Hi Peter, is Bahco combi square on right angle? because I have a lot of combi square but not in right angle :(
Yes, they're very good; I have several of these bought at different times, and they're all good. 👍
I find myself oddly satisfied you got the one at the end so close. I do wonder if a very sharp chisel upside down would be useful to scoop those low points out to a high prescecion
Depends how much time you have, I think! 👍👍
Hi Peter , thanks for doing this series. I always cocked them up when trying to do an infil in the past, but this series has really unlocked the secret of getting a good scribe.
A quick question , how do you go about tackling a very deep/wide dado rail that is wider than the thickness of your carcass ? . would you have to make the offset greater than the dado width/depth.
Once more thanks for doig this series , i am sure many people will be learning a great deal from it. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Glenn! Really good to hear that it’s hitting the right mark! I get into the ‘extreme scribe’ situation in Friday’s video - specifically about scribing to a ceiling, but only because that’s where you get the most extreme variations. In short though, yes, you make sure that the offset+carcass thickness > the scribe depth. 👍👍
You should consider investing in a spokeshave.
Thanks. Not sure what I’d use one for tbh - I’ve managed scribes without one so far, and they’d have few applications for building the kind of cabinets and carcasses I make. 👍👍
Spokeshave Peter?
Forget my question 😂
What question? 🤔😆😂😂👍👍
saw a jigsaw blade with downcut teeth so you don't have to invert your jigsaw.
Surely just ad 2mm oversize then plane
👍
"Just a hair over 2 13/16."
Have you tried an angle grinder for scribing/coping, don't laugh, works well. Finish Carpentry: th-cam.com/video/OrVBbDYTm5U/w-d-xo.html
Messy though. I had a RAS 115 sander for Festool that was pretty much the same thing; but with a semblance of dust collection. Still too messy for me though. 🤷♂️👍
Grinders great if you love dust, especially MDF dust. At least with my small belt sander I can and do use a vacuum.
Spoke shave?
Could work; don’t own one, never used one on MDF - have you? Also, these vids are aimed at relative newcomers, so I try and keep the tool set fairly simple 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop a spoke shave will work as well as a plane, it's just got a much shorter sole so can follow undulations better and you can get a cheap one from Amazon for a fiver.
When I was college we were expected to scribe a length of architrave with a coping saw! I wouldn’t be surprised if whoever thought that task up either had been a teacher all his life or just really disliked us
Jeez, sounds like the kind of thing he had to do when he was an apprentice, so he has to pass on the pain, lol! 🤷♂️👍