TOM HOLLAND'S FAULT? The TRUTH About MCU Downfall Explained
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Marvel fans, I can't believe I'm saying it, BUT I think the whole MCU downfall is actually BECAUSE of Tom Holland Spider-Man! New reports about Kevin Feige's plan from the past couple of years prove this! THIS IS CRAZY, but we need to break it all down!
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Tom Holland didn’t write the tone deaf scripts that littered phase 4.
Just clickbait he gotta make money
@@______________________-___fr
No, Eminem wrote Tone Deaf :)
And No way home was probably one of the few decent films in phase 4
While I don't deny that having the Tom Holland Spider-Man in the MCU is better than not having him, I think it is highly disingenuous to suggest that his absence alone is the cause for the current lackluster state of the MCU. This absolves the MCU and Feige of blame by suggesting that everything would have been fine with Spider-Man and that it's all stupid Sony's fault. Spidey can't be in everything and he certainly wasn't going to be on Disney Plus.
Yeah, and tbh if they were stupid enough to plan everything around a character they don't even own fully, it's their fault.
@@MademoiselleRed1390Yeah, and look what happened now when the actor playing the villain that the whole multiverse is based around has just been fired. Chadwick dies and Black Panther was also going to be in that new core of heroes. At this rate, we might have to assume that Phase 1-3 was the best we are likely to ever get and they were damn lucky that everything came off so smoothly compared to how it's been recently.
I remember seeing Civil War in a cinema. Back then I stayed away from leaks, and when Spider- Man was presented It blew my mind, I was smiling the whole airport scene. Definitely one of the best parts of MCU ,and now considering current state, the best part of MCU.
Only because Holland was/is the best live action Spiderman. I grew up on and loved the Maguire trilogy, but Hollands rendition went above and beyond. Tobey now feels a bit dopey, and Garfield was a bit too emo. Holland got rid of the dopey elements and brings it back to a youthful innocence/ignorance that just works- like referencing that old movie with the "walking thingies."
Ya civil war was peak MCU
Pandemic, No Spider-man rights, Chadwick’s death. Marvel Phase 4 and 5 were hit hard!
Chadwick’s death definitely did affect the the second movie but they shouldn’t have made In general without black panther himself
Also spidey being a lead going forward was a no brained I mean it’s Spider-Man. He’s the most famous marvel character.
None of this was Tom's fault lol
There was NOTHING about Capt Marvel 1 that said "billion dollar film" or "inheritor of the mantle" except the incredible momentum of pre-Endgame Marvel phase 3. There were little factions of fans who passionatley followed Captain America, Black Widow, Iron Man, Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Hulk, or Thor as their favorite hero but never met a single person for whom Carol Danvers was their numero uno Avenger. Hell, supporting actor Winston Duke with a half hour of screen-time had way more devoted followers than Brie Larson.
1:37 that’s ever more sad knowing charwick had that meeting knowing he was sick 😢
RIP Chadwick Boseman 🙏🏿 after his death everything changed
This is one of the dumbest takes i ever heard. How is it Tom Holland fault Sony wanted to end their contract with Marvel? When he was the one who convinced Disney and Sony to negotiate to bring him back. Also he doesn’t write/direct or plan anything he just shows up and acts for his movies 😂. Yes we would all love more Spiderman but he not the one who writing the contract btw the 2 studios. The real problem is Sony has their own plans for their universe and Kevin Feige probably assumed that the Mcu could do anything they want with the character which was a mistake
That's a great theory, but they still had Nick Furry, Maria Hill, Hawkeye, etc.. Why not have rebuilt through those characters? Especially going tv heavy! In a sense it would've given us what SHIELD was up to before recruiting Tony Stark. If the MCU could've taken a break or at least slowed down after the Infinity Saga, pivoting through SHIELD was in my opinion, the way to do it.
Give this man a beer
I also feel that the creative minds at marvel weren’t either directed or weren’t capable of pivoting off of this plan. We had the whole lock down time period where they could have planned and executed something else.
Something deeper is going on at marvel… that’s why they had to rewrite Blade how many times? Fired the whole team of DD born again, reshooting half of the new cap movie.
Sure deviation from the original plan is on Sony but the sacrificing of the whole phase 4 is on Kevin and Marvel.
Maybe. I see what your saying but honestly I think they made a few rather silly mistakes. They have like 3 versions of "multiverse" explanations when they should have one. Second the running theme after Endgame all across the more earth grounded projects should have been answering the question, "With the Avengers gone who is going to fill that space?" That means that Cap and Winter Soldier should have been about whether or not they belong in whatever government system that is trying to replace the Avengers. This is why Thunderbolts or the presence of a new team called the Thunderbolts should have been on hand even if they weren't the focus.
Anime has shown us that filler can be done right
I acknowledge that the pandy, Chadwick’s death, and Sony not playing ball def hindered their production but almost none of the post endgame content has been satisfying to watch
Here’s hoping DP3 saves us 😂
There are about 3-5 projects that are good but underrated IMO, NWH, GOTGVol 3, Loki S1&S2, Shang-Chi
Still confused. How is this all Tom Holland's fault? He's just an actor. Sounds like it's more of Sony and Feigi's fault (which you only barely mention at the end). Also, this is mostly just speculation. Not much evidence. Even then, entire movies and shows wouldn't be trash filler just because they were missing a Spider-Man cameo. So overall, I don't think this is much of the main reason.
So, Miss Marvel, Hawkeye, she hulk, Black Panther, two, captain Marvel, all sucked because we didn’t have a Plan B? Oh yeah, and secret invasion was horrible. I mean I even forgot about that one that’s how bad it was.
He owes Tom an apology for this lol. Blaming this trainwreck era on one actor who had one of the best movies post-Endgame smh
So in a nutshell, it was Sony’s fault
Agreed 💯
Why would Sony think it's clever to take back Spiderman after the success it had with No Way Home and the other films he's been involved with, when Sony's track record has been a bit underwhelming.
They tried to do before after Far From Home leading to a falling out with Disney which almost led to Spider-Man: No Way Home not happening had Tom Holland not stepped in to secure his place in the MCU by forcing the the two companies to renegotiate.
It was doomed from the start - Feige relying on a character that he doesnt even own was such a bad idea.
That's what I was thinking
That actually explains everything. Lines up so well with what phase 3 setup. I even remember when Tom got a new contract for no from home they said it had one other film as well and all the leaks said it was Captain Marvel 2. Whatever happened to that part of the deal…
So, its sonys fault that marvel's decline and the director didn’t think that sony could of been random stubbornly remove themselves.
It's "progressive" writers that is killing the MCU.
You’re right I think Toms Spider-Man needs to be involved more since he still remembers everyone but they don’t remember him being Spider-Man
Yeah I feel like the lost endgame cast being led by Black panther, doctor strange Spider-Man and Wanda was strong! With support of Shang chi , ant man and cap marvel supporting would’ve been really fire
This was so obviously not Tom Hollands fault… it was Sony! And kinda marvel not negotiating more agency with how they can use that character
It was all Trudeaus fault
It was definitely SONY! Knowing how much money would’ve been made between marvel and SONY collectively if they integrated THs Spider-Man into the MCU correctly, they should’ve made the proper deal and let Feige do what needed to be done with Spider-Man ofc still under SONY superb
We don’t even have a confirmation that spider man 4 is going to come out before secret wars.
It’s because of the firing of James Gunn in 2018. When that happened, the plans for the next four years were nearly scuttled. Gunn was the main conceptualist for Phase 4 and 5 at that time.
The stuff about Sony-Man, Disney+, The activism, and the pandemic all contributed to this problem, but they were complicating issues. Planning and the lack of it due to Gunn being fired, is what created this problem. It was a scramble after that as to where the MCU was going and how this would be achieved.
Secret Invasion and She-Hulk had almost Inhumans or Iron Fist levels of poor writing so a missing Tom Holland can't fully explain the MCU's sudden loss of competency.
Marvel could’ve had Spider-Man (Sony issue), Dr. Strange and T’Challa as the main faces. Nope, instead Marvel shoved low tier characters, killed off legit characters majority audiences want and forced “the message”.
I wish they would of take thw comics more into conaideration and made vision and scarlet witch head of the new avenges team.
But must have moonknight in new team or not worth it !
Nah. It was the wokeness.
Waaaaaah. Everything I don't like is woke. Waaaaaahhhh.
Agree
Mostly, but not entirely
🤓
@jarrenhunt8579 bro it ain't even mostly. I would say partly. The majority of the problem is over-saturation. Shows like She-Hulk were just for the comic book geeks but the incels (which have a higher concentration with nerd-sh*t) have a bigger voice so they got mad about a green skinned lawyer twerking. Secret Invasion had a bunk ending. Moon Night was miss-able. The latest movies have a higher rate of garbage so people act like it's the end of the world. It's not nearly as good as it was, and it never will be. These people are expecting '96 Bulls from Wizards Era Jordan.
I am 10000% certain it’s not a massive actors fault it’s a lot of ppls fault 😂😂😂😂.
It’s the fault of ppl rushing things out that’s all.
Benedict Cumberbatch's Doctor Strange could have been the new lead of the MCU instead of Tom Holland's Spider-Man. The Multiverse Saga should have focused on Doctor Strange. Doctor Strange is one of the characters in the MCU who have experiences with the MCU Multiverse which matches the Multiverse Saga's topic. Benedict Cumberbatch is also an experienced and fan-favourite actor who is capable to lead the future of the MCU. It is pity of Marvel to waste such a talented actor and a fan-beloved character.
It was the writing. The moment the writing team was given permission to undercut the previous era was the moment all was lost.
"Oh infinity stones that the audience just spent ten years respecting? They're just paper weights now get over it"
Hating on brie larsen is the ugliest fad, not 1 person can talk shit about her without sounding like its some kinda them problem. Even if she wasn't great in your opinion that's a director issue and its jaw-dropping how few people understand that. She dared talk back to chris hemsworth when he was being a legit ass, so everybody let a bunch of tiny dick lonely hate spammers get in their heads. Fight back by making your own opinions and dont be afraid to put them out there.
Y’all already know we here sending those daily positive vibes from Houston everyone!🙏🏼
Tom doesn’t change the fact that it’s the MSHEU
basically marvel should have binned shehulk, secretwars, make a third doc strange movie, make thor more serious, focus more on vibranium wars.
If you look at it at a purely cause and effect scenario then it would make sense, but it's not Spider-Man's or SONY's fault, they were just the catalyst. Waiting for things to work out better with SONY is not a reason to regurgitate absolute garbage like She-Hulk. Fillers can be good and entertaining too you know. Again Hollywood needs to learn from Anime/Manga stories.
Also they didn't have Spider-Man during phase 1, yet they delivered. So waiting for arrangements for Spider-Man to be better is not a good reason.
So Feige decided to make the lead characters of the MCU post End Game an actor who had terminal cancer, a character who's actress had one of the lowest approval rates because of Bree's off camera stuff and incel obsessions and a character they don't own the rights to? We got some geniuses over there at Disney and Marvel how could they ever foresee this being a problem..
Wait this is so true lmfao. Tom is super popular character (a new RDJ/Ironman lead). And he was rly the first character who delt with the multiverse first hand. So he’s the popular catalyst that would have tied together the story much better
disney cared more about their ESG score than their bottom line, thats what is killing their movies
Loki , Spiderman, Deadpool and Wolverine are whole Marvel now
Sounds like Sony knew the MCU was going the woke route & wanted to keep that stink of failure of their valuable I.P.
So it's just sony's fault for not giving spider-man back? Why the clickbait titel (who am i kidding).....
Doesn't sound like it's Tom Holland's fault at all. it's almost like you just made up a headline to get people to click on your video
Hell nooo it's not Tom's fault for the decline at Marvel, it's the boss's fault! Only one can be blamed for this it's Kevin. You definitely know that it was not Tom's fault, clickbait video never thought you would do this
Bro, you are spot on. Nice work. 💪💪💪
Leveraging your whole universe on a character you don't even own is so stupid. If Sony takes spiderman back right now the MCU is screwed.
Tom Holland’s Spider Man grossed a lot, but he doesn’t have the chops to be “the guy” in the likes of Robert Downey Jr., who was a seasoned actor with decades of fan support. Other than that, identity politics and going woke ruined the MCU.
Filler stuff at this scale should still be good enough to get us all the way through to the next big thing.
Josh, you are crazy, but in a good way, lol. Keep up the great content!
Hey #Broski 👋 thanks for your diligence in making content for the community! #longliveUNITY
It's definitely a mixture of a lot of things, but I agree that Marvel kinda lost it's North Star with Stark's passing. Peter could absolutely fill that void. I definitely agree that things would be a lot better for Marvel right now had they been able to use Tom Holland. And it just makes so much sense too. That's what it felt like was being set up. At least that's the impression I was getting. Maybe these next few avengers movies will just work because of Spidey being the lead? Would definitely prove this video right.
Throughout all of Tom's spiderman's journey in the MCU, up to this point he actually feels like the classic spider-man. Carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders, he's alone and yet still has that upbeat attitude as Spidey. I think Spiderman 4 should also be a new beginning. He's got the bright flashy suit, no one knows who he is.
This film would convey Peter Parker as an adult Spiderman. But i hope it leads to him leading the Avengers,
If Black Panther was so important for the future they should have recast him like Boseman wanted.
Spider-Man was only "out of the MCU" for a roughly a month, August-September 2019.
You okay buddy? This whole vid doesn't make any sense. The reason for the downfall is obviously disney+.
I mean maybe the soft-reboot of the MCU after "Avengers: Secret Wars" could actually fix the whole "big 3" problem by having Spider-Man, Wolverine, and The Hulk instead there
in the old Spiderman he had to get his team together for battle world
Seems a bit click-baity to suggest it was Tom Holland when it’s a studio dispute…
The reason Tom Holland moved to the head of the line is because Spiderman is the only character from the MCU that people want to see more of.
Instead of the _Multiverse Saga_ they should have done the _Cosmic Saga_ with a bit of mythology thrown in there.
Thor could have served as a major player - OG Avenger, still around and kicking, lot of hype for him after IW and EG, could be used to explore the mythology of the MCU.
Galactus could be the Big Bad and the saga could be the perfect place for the FF to make their presence known. Dr. Doom could as well.
So if the third Saga were to be the Multiverse Saga, Kang could still be introduced as the Big Bad and should Marvel pull the rug and make Dr. Doom the Big Bad late in the game, it would feel more earned.
I don’t think Sony can make a Spider-man movie as successful as Marvel’s MCU.
Why can't people just admit that Marvel and Star Wars were both destroyed by feminists? It's literally what happened.
Bro, Tom Holland's MCU contract was only for 6 movies and they used literally every one of them. I can't think of a Phase 4/5 movie so far where it would have made sense to put him in it and it certainly wouldn't have saved the movies.
Disney forgot who their audience was
Captain Marvel is fine, you are a bit fragile that she's not a dude. You can at least admit she is a hottie I hope, otherwise you're delusional. Too much focus on hating dudes for both of you, you should sit in time out together.
I'm just gonna say it. Brie Larson as Captain Marvel is great. The first movie made OVER a billion dollars. I think The Marvels didn't do well for A LOT of reasons, but the fact is most people who actually watched The Marvels enjoyed it. It's not perfect, but it was really good (83% audience score). Also, I wouldn't blame Holland, the title is misleading. It's really Sony's fault. How can you depend on a character so much when Sony keeps threatening to pull him?
Captain Marvel, comic character, really cannot compete with the popularity of Spider-Man, comic character. I enjoyed Kamala Kahn but her character can't compete with Captain Marvel. In terms of comic book popularity. Thor was destroyed by waititi (may he rot in hell). And we lost Bozeman, we lost the Black Panther. She-Hulk played out just like the comic. I think the Film MCU is suffering from the lack of big guns. I won't talk about Raimi's Zombie fest travesty called "dr strange". I don't who is worth less: Raimi and the same move over and over again, or waititi uncaring, mushroom tripping pile of puke! Those two movies ruined the MCu. Not She-hulk.
Both of her movies were buttcheeks though. They saddled her with 2 of the worst MCU villains ever(same thing they did to Black Widow) and the most noobish writers and directors. The first Capt Marvel came out in the golden era when ppl trusted Marvel to be good, plus they made it look like required viewing for Endgame. If most people had actually liked it they would've showed up for the sequel, but everyone expected it to be ass.
They should of recast T’Chala
That is what family want.
So did the actor.
Pretty sure there's no new Spider-Man because Tom Holland was out of contract and he wanted some time out to do other projects. I don't think sony have yanked it back from MCU?
W0W! What a statement! You'd better be able to back it up! I've watched this video thrice, and it sounds to me like it's Sony who's at fault! Not Tom Holland so nope you didn't back it up! 9:40
Even Mr. Fantastic would be jealous of that stretch.
How could it be Tom Holland's fault? He wasn't even IN the Marvels
Nope. Especially since Chadwick was replaced by BP2. He was already told he would be because, "Black Woman" was even more woke than, "Black Man"
Amy Pascal looks crazy af 😂 @7:48
Can't believe someone that wealthy goes on camera with hair looking like that
@@rhetro777 money doesn’t buy you good style lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're right, I wish Spiderman was in the marvels so he could finally show Captain Marvel what he has for her 😏
Dude we went thru a pandemic ..a CEO change .. and political agendas being pushed instead of movie plots.
The best thing that could've ever happened for Marvel was this writers strike and Iger coming back ...
People just need to chill the fuck out and accept the reality that a lot of bad things happened to one of their favorite companies for a little while. It's happened.
Now allow them to course correct
I politely disagree. I believe marvels downfall was the agenda and horrible writing. When someone don’t like what they’re putting out they attack the fans. This may have something to do with it but the DEI is what killed marvel. For me at least. I had no love for quantimania and didn’t even bother with the marvels cause I knew what it was going to be. Have high hopes they will turn things around but I do t think it’s because of spiderman. When you make a movie to send a message and people reject it that’s what’s their downfall is.
At this point just drop the Cpt. Marvel franchise. Quit banking on Spiderman and lean into Deadpool+Xmen. That’s what everyone is more excited for now and Ryan has proved he can execute at a high level. IMO just nail down a solid F4 and X-Men cast. Move in that direction and figure out Avengers in the mean time.
Shelf the avengers they had a great run, you’re right
Itll be fine. So will Star Wars. Its that simple.
No doubt losing Spidey hurt, but I think your rant about Marvel needing to Man the F up better covers the problems of the MCU.
Not having spider-man doesn’t excuse the crappy Phase 4 and post end-game productions.
Not his fault. It's Disney's fault! As soon as Disney hoped on the MCU wagon. It went down hill.
I don't understand why Ms Marvel rated so low. It was good
Sony will need Marvel when Madam Spider and Morbius 2 tank. Sinister 6 and venom may save them.
So what i got is that it’s NOT Tom Holland’s fault lol cmon Josh do better
KevinFeige🙀is Still King🙀Of The MCU🤣Kevin is Good Ideas☺️😊
Dear Josh is there any details on daredevil suit in born again
I think your story is interesting - but you are forgetting (or leaving out a few things) Blank Panther made waaaaaaay more money than Marvel or anyone had anticipated. And Chadwick in real life and on Screen was inspirational - so Marvel had decided to center around him going forward. Then in his untimely death - there were ‘talks’ around making Captain Marvel (partly because of her powers) be the center of everything. Clearly we know what happened there… so now there’s the success of SpiderMan… so in theory - Tom Holland has become their third option. Marvels failures (if we are really calling lesser profit than usual a failure) is based on scrambling to find a centrical character than fans can rally behind similar to Ironman. If you had explored it along those lines you could still get the clicks and likes you wanted - while balancing it with some further depth in truth. ❤
If this is true Kevin Feige is more of a hack than we thought. Sony isn’t going to sign spiderman on for a whole phase. They are going to want to renegotiate after every project like RDJ did. Why bet the whole house on a character you don’t own. A smart person would have bet on red. Daredevil easily could be the face of Marvel. Why they got to disrespect Matt Murdock every chance they get.
I thought this was going to be a bad take vid,but I watched it to the end and kinda see where you coming from. Still though this is a kevin,bob,and the disney board fault. Also sony a little bit but then again if I seen some of the low effort outings marvel/disney. Been pushing out lately I'd hesitate too.
We do have "that guy" Josh... it's THE WONGERZ!
It’s called ESG score. Not a big mystery
Blackrock, Vanguard and Statestreet is the behind the scenes villain to the downfall of the MCU. #IYKYK
Let me save the MCU for you in 15 seconds. Sony and Marvel are idiots for not working together on everything possible.
We all know the MCU had a massive villain problem. Sony is already making a Kraven movie. why not let Sony build out the Marvel universe/landscape focusing on the villains, and taking that heavy lifting off Kevin’s side of the movie slate. . Even if it’s just the spider man rogues gallery, with the addition of venom, and all that can be done with carnage/Knoll/spider, verse… how could they be so petty. It seems like a perfect marriage to me and they work out some deal where Sony gets a % of the take from anything Spider-Man or their characters are in. No need to get greedy, make it lucrative for everyone and let the MCU tell better stories around its hero’s while the Sony squad really builds out the world of the MCU while telling stories about the Venmo/Sider verse anti hero’s/ villains. Hell setting doc Oc to take over Peter’s body would be pretty dam cool. They could do the whole future Peter vs superior Spider-Man and let holland play out his version of those characters within 1 Spider-Man (a simple version of Kang)
Death of T’Challa
The biggest reason was Bob chapek and wanting way to much Disney plus content and pushing messages instead of just making good content
I blame the writers