It is said that in original script humans weren't enslaved for energy but their collective brainpower was used as a sort of CPU but the higher ups thought that was too computer nerdy back then and they wanted something simpler. that's why it was changed to body heat generators.
That would have so much better then the idiotic "humans as batteries" idea they ended up going with, because then the Matrix is totally dependent on human brains. If all the Matrix needs is an another source of power, then what's wrong with geothermal, tide, wind or nuclear power? Just because the Sun is blotted out doesn't mean those other power sources stop working. They could have done some really deep storytelling, where the Matrix uses the processing power of people brains at the unconscious level. So people hooked up to the Matrix might be aware that something is not right, but not quite at a conscious level (by having shared dreams or nightmares).
Yeah I’ve heard this too. It seems to make more sense at first... until you realize that, if the machines are just as, if not more intelligent than humans, then some kind of artificial “brains” (or computers or circuits or what have you) must already exist with processing power at least equal to ours (if not greater)... AND it would almost certainly be more efficient to use this technology than human brains (which are attached to bodies that must be kept alive, and presumably have to be replaced every 80 years or so). In my opinion, the only theory that adequately explains the machines’ behaviour is that, in spite of everything, they simply don’t WANT to exterminate humanity. The matrix functions as a kind of virtual “nature reserve” where humans can live out their lives blissfully unaware of world’s hellish postwar state, and never enslave their machine caretakers again.
@Phelan The last two parts of the trilogy complete the first one and only make sense as a whole. While the first one deals with the question what the matrix is, the second one ask why people are trapped in there and the third one gives the answer on how to get out of the system.
@Robert E. Speedwagon No one called it the most original piece of art ever I believe. Matrix written and directed under the influence of movies (like the dark city), books (Simulacra and Simulation), comics (The Invisibles) etc. It doesn't make the movie any worse.
1:14:33-1:15:00 to me is the greatest part of this video. Best statements I've heard in a long time. This is one of the reasons why I will support your works any way I can.
If you pay attention to how the scenes are set up when they’re in the Matrix compared to when they’re not, the scenes inside the matrix are cut in a very dreamlike way. Scenes that don’t line up with scene before or after, groups of characters being in one place a specific time and then being somewhere completely different in the next scene. Where as outside the matrix all the scenes lead into the other others there a clear linear progression.
I'd love to see him do Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra (which I like to think of as somewhere in between anime and western animation) and/or Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
My thanks to Pax for suggesting this. Great choice. I don't have much to say other than that it was a solid rumination. You're right about the way the Matrix works; when you think about it, the rules have to be based on individual expectations in order for believing something to change the way things normally work (they almost spell it out with "it is not the spoon that bends; it is only yourself." Just goes to show how little I think about things when I watch them casually). The idea of Smith being transferred to this job from elsewhere is a creative one, though. I always assumed he was a much simpler AI designed specifically for the job, but given how complicated the task is it could make sense for the machine beings to use something more on their own level (or even just one of them assigned to the job). Good stuff.
Funny thing, when I was a 8 year old kid as I first watched this movie, I actually thought Neo and Thomas a Anderson were 2 distinct persons living 2 separate lives. I thought that it was the very reason Neo was so special: he got to live not 1 but 2 lives within the same framework, and basically was a glitch in and of himself, hense why the agents went after him, and specifically said so. I didn't know what living a double life meant figuratively back then.
To me rescue with a minigun makes a perfect sense: agent already proved by this point they can dodge single shots - so Neo does one thing they cannot avoid: fill the air with lead so there is nowhere to escape to... His own version of "dodge this". Also, sine he also has the "slo-mo" abilitt by now he can ensure carefull aiming to avoid hitting Morpheus. And a note on the Deagles: agents never carry any spare magazines - it implies they never needed any more than few shots to deal with a person before
The machine can simulate taste in the reality of matrix with perfect precision - all it needs to know is chemical compounds that make up a certain type of food and stimulate nerves connecting to the receptors that would react to them. With amount of data accessible to machines there really is no question if it can simulate taste of stake, it knows how it tastes better than any person will ever be. I've read that original script intended matrix to be a distributed calculations system for machines to use, and they changed it to stupid power plant because they thought people won't understand the concept, and i like the idea, however i found "everything as it should be" concept that you presented being a much more likely thing. I also find it interesting that all programs have to be represented as human beings in matrix with all inherent flaws of such existence, and have my own little theory on Smith's disgust. I think that programs used to be abstract entities that would change reality directly, and that in earlier versions of matrix agents were "spirits" or "deities" that changed matrix directly for sake of security, but such brute force approach was breaking the simulation, and each program had to be fitted with human avatar. The simplest way of doing so was copying the consiousness of people and giving control of them to programs, to be controlled as puppets and don't waste time learning to behave EXACTLY like a human being. But in Smith's case an error occured during the process, and his avatar is in state of constant pain or disgust, not because Smith-program doesn't like matrix, but because Smith-avatar is flawed. And obviously he lacks permissions required to edit it, or change it, so he searches for a way to complete his objective to have Smith-avatar unassigned from him
Hey I have a question not necessarily relevant to your comment but Within the Matrix do the civilizations progress, and if so will they essentially follow the same events as what had occured previous to the existence of the Matrix ? An infinite regress of sorts
I like the headcannon of the machines aim being essentially to keep humanity safe. Considering how much the Wachowski's liked referencing other philosophies, it could even hail back to Azimov and the zeroth law, eg we scorched the sky and were on the verge of destroying ourselves, so the machines decided the best way to prevent harm to humanity was to essentially control us totally and create the matrix so we're no longer able to fight and hard ourselves. They don't want to kill humans, but do so because not doing so would cause humanity as a whole harm.
28:41 - I remember that. I didn't know going in either, and neither did my wife. My wife was pregnant with our second child. And the shots of babies, and the cut to Duracell batteries disturbed her quite a lot. She said it nearly ruined the movie for her. So that means they did it right. it was POWERFUL. And I never saw it coming - there were several moments in those opening scenes that really blew my mind.
My mother in law was pregnant with her first child when her husband took her to see "Alien" back in the day when it first came out. I suppose she can relate to your wife in that situation...
I don't know if it was actually done, or if I am projecting. But ever since the first time I saw the Matrix, the - losing the phone while escaping the agents part? looked/felt artificial. Like the phone "fell" into a matt painting. Like the phone only really "fell" 6 feet before disappearing. This perception seemed more an more pronounced with every re-watch. Essentially, it's like the movie is breaking its own fourth wall & saying to the audience. "This is not real. it is an artificial environment." If the filmmakers actually did something I can't name, to create that effect, then props for the subtle hint on the 'reality' of 'what is the Matrix'!
Here's speaking from the future, after you know what movie recently came out. And considering how much the whole human battery concept doesn't hold up upon scrutiny, I have to wonder why they didn't try to subvert the idea in the studio-mandated 4th installment. Instead they decided to double down and state this time that the machines are achieving highest ever power generation from humans because they figured out that... if they make people struggle to achieve stuff in the Matrix, the humans generate MOAR POWAH. Unlimited Powah, if you will.
Just watched your rumination on the Matrix and I had another idea as to why the program maintained the matrix. You clearly knocked the idea of humans as power sources out and I agree that machine run societies will stagnate as they would follow the basic engineers philosophy of "If it ain't broke, why fix it" and you illustrate this with showing that the program doesn't change at all unless forced to. My idea is that maybe they (the machine) recognizes that they will not evolve and that they cannot change without the "human" factor which is to look outside the box. They keep the humans going so they will eventually push the envelope of "reality" to the point where, as in the first Star Trek movie, the merging of human and machine will give it, the machine, the ability to finally evolve to the next level.
17:48 - Oh, GOD, man - I totally get it. YES. My insides would have been turning to liquid if I'd been thinking about getting to that scaffold. I don't even think I could do it WITHOUT that main "barrier" he encountered. Just being that CLOSE to the edge, even with a great ledge to stay safe on, would have done me in. That was a very "humanizing" moment for Neo - made him feel very very real.
Hey! Props to your niece, man. I have lots of respect for anyone that learns to read before first grade. It's not at all that it's "that hard" - it's more just the presence of the interest and discipline to learn something "before you're pressured to. :-)
I liked the camera they used for Speed Racer so that the foreground and background were in focus at once, that was groundbreaking work in a stupid movie
I completely agree with your point on how belief limits your capabilities in The Matrix. In fact, the Oracle and Architect later touch in this, calling Neo the Anomaly that occurs within the balanced programming of The Matrix. That Anomaly is Neo having no limits, which could be interpreted as the programming Anomaly can not set hard limits on him, thus his limitless beliefs allow for limitless potential.
23:00 - YES!!! Every time I watch the movie, and Neo says "I have all these memories... They never happened." I want to strangle the guy. YES THEY DID. His mind experienced those things, and shared those experiences with other living beings. That is real. It doesn't matter what the "venue" is. A couple who falls in love in the Matrix ARE IN LOVE. That's a state that's defined by the two minds involved. I've always found this to be a major "oversight" of the movie.
The last scene with the agents all shooting at Neo. and he just STOPS the bullets in mid-air...then deftly defeating Smith in close combat with ONE ARM and a Kick. And of course getting blown apart. The other two Agents...Brown and Jones I believe, just get the F outta dodge after witnessing Smith get DEMOLISHED. That was hilarious and cool way back in 1999. Man. I was just a kid back then.
Regarding the machines, I always thought there are different levels of AI between them. The oracle being the closest or being an actually real AI, reason she actually can give future projections (and if we take into account future movies, the reason she was able to design the proper matrix)
How do the machines breed the humans? When 2 people get it on in the Matrix do the machines arrange for the battery to get pregnant in the real world throw invertro and then match the child to the parent as the new battery grows in another section? Or is every battery mortal and stagnant and not an issue?
Maybe gathering the egg and sperm from the mother and father who get together in the matrix, and grow the child as it grows in the matrix, the two matching up perfectly?
I spent a weirdly large amount of time trying to dig this guy's name up. Eliezer Yudkowsky, who did a sermon actually discussing intelligence in general and AI. You can read a bit about it here. slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/02/where-the-falling-einstein-meets-the-rising-mouse/
When you're talking about machines keeping humans in the matrix at 31:00 , the lore does address why there isn't just what you're describing, it's because the humans in the matrix have to accept the illusion as reality, if they didn't, they would die, and just putting them in a heaven or hell scenario wasn't enough to convince humans that the matrix was real, thus all this extra effort was put into the illusion.
On the humans as a power plant thing: I heard somewhere that originally the machines were supposed to be using human brains as data storage devices, which ties in perfectly with the agents ability to upload themselves into humans, and the ability to upload skills etc, but the suits made them change it because they thought it would be too confusing for Joe public.
Humans-as-data-storage doesn’t make much more sense IMO. If the machines already have intelligence approaching humanity’s, it implies artificial “brains” could be designed to do the job just as well... likely more efficiently, since they wouldn’t need useless bodies to keep them alive.
@@shivuxdux7478 Currently pound for pound and watt for watt we dont even come close to efficiency of processing power. Memories are poorly understood, but data storage may well also be more e
34:00 - I don't find that bad at all, Lore. Responsibility is an important part of life that we talk too little about. You just shouldn't bring life into the world without a well thought out plan for caring for that life. It's a responsibility all parents share. I understand why you had to be very careful about that, but you are among friends with me.
Late to the party, but hearing the thought of the machines being some kind of high advanced V I instead of A I ... I like that one a lot. It would make the machines still dependend of humans to evolve and and explain their need for functional matrix. People want to evolve and while the machines want so, too. They are simply not capable to do so on their own. They need humans to bounce off of. That's why they couldn't evolve above their current state. They want the perfect matrix so the humans would proceed their work in the matrix, so the machines could finally get new blueprints. Sadly no matrix was good enough to catch the human minds efficent enough... That's why like the architect told in revolution, the machines became efficent in killing humans (bouncing off of them and reacting to the threat), but even after the 5th or 6th version of the matrix, the machines couldn't create an environment in which humans really would continue and expand their work above the point the matrix is able to show as their point of reality in the past. The machines are stuck because they can't get the humans to work properly on evolving.
31:50 - Yeah, totally agree. The machines found it *necessary* to keep humans not just alive, but generally oblivious to the fact that anything was wrong. They could have just killed us and focused completely on that "form of fusion" Morpheus mentions. But no. I've also felt this aspect could be re-written to be better, but the problem is that it would only matter to about 1% of the audience. I've always felt like discovering that the matrix had to be a quantum computer would have been good - first attempt was with a standard computing core, and people kept waking up, because they just couldn't feel the "fuzziness" that belongs in the world. And then once it was a quantum computer, it could explain why "The One" can control things in there. Because let's face it - in a deterministic computing system what happens is what the program says happens. There is no BASIS for one of the minds taking over. But with a quantum computer you have quantum uncertainty, and you're postulating that a peculiarly capable mind could exploit that. Just as you could posit that peculiarly capable minds can do magic a la witchcraft and so on. I think that would have been a *far* more plausible "backstory" for The Matrix. But... only a handful of people would have "gotten it."
It's just like Highlander. The original first move told the story. Done, over, no more required. No more will WORK. So the subsequent stuff was doomed from the outset to be crap.
Who knows what youtube video about the matrix theorises about the color of the shirts they wear in zion? I saw it a while ago, can't find it anymore. The reviewer said if i remember correctly that the blue shirts (trinity, neo and so on) are programs and red shirts (morpheus, niobe and mifune) are humans. It was linked to the blue and red pill, like color coding. Someone please help me.
I loved the matrix movies growing up. I'd always end up going through the whole series once a month lol. I also played the MMO which was alright if not lacking as much content as a usually MMO would. As I got older I started to appreciate how good the first movie was and kinda wishing they hadn't dropped the ball so hard on reloaded and revolutions. My problems with the sequels was that it felt too much like style over substance and I felt the third movie was a little too hamfisted and cringey in some parts.
As a viewing experience Matrix was a big budget version of going to see the movie They Live. You expect a low/high budget bs action popcorn flick...and walk out like 'how did they create one of the most intelligent sci fi movies I've ever seen with Rowdy Roddy Piper/Bland Ted?!
What do you think of that theory where the real world is a matrix as well? Like there being various layers of the matrix, this was done by the machines in order to satisfy the innate rebelious nature of some(all?) humans and further trick them.
I always liked the idea that Neo himself is an AI, and both the matrix and “real” world are simulations his creators are putting him through to try and teach him what it means to be human.
To the discussion of "what is real", "what is reality", "what is the definition of "real"", I somewhere heared a good one for this, altough on my mother language, and I do not remember who said it, so forgive me, I just try to translate, probably not accurate: "Real is what does not disappear, even when we stop beliving in it" Because how hallucinations disappear, and how dreams become lucid dreams once you realize they are just dreams, not reality.
Well to real is real just because it disappears doesnt mean its not there. Once a something decomposes or broken apart it doesnt disappear it just gets smaller into atoms. Like a computer program ai maybe even a simulation like the matrix created by us humans its real its pain is real wether its real like humans or original creations or entities thats diferent. Maybe the answer to what is real? is that is that its the wrong question maybe the best question is what type of real?
Good question i never thought of that. But maybe there is some sacrifices passed off as accidents to keep up illusion. Like our reality you hardly here of accidents or deadly ones and compared to the world numbers a few sacrifices is enough to create illusion especially when experience and instinct try to keep us safe not dead or hurt so i guess it can work.
Lore, please do watch Evangelion. It's coming to Netflix now, first time it's been accessible to Western audiences in over a decade. It covers so many themes that obviously captivate you. You'd have a blast, I bet.
It basically means that he is a spy. Technically all the red pills are spies in the matrix working for zion. Its a reference to sis operating officers for mi5 during the first and second world War. They were the spies that helped the allies find and infiltrate the axis powers and help save any pows they could find
44:00 - Yeah, but the truth is some of those flat earth guys ARE, in fact, smart. I don't know what kind of insanity has overtaken them, but it's not that they're all stupid. I'd like to think they just get a kick out of trolling us, but I don't think that's it. I hate like hell thinking that it's just that someone has figured out they can make money taking that position - that's a truly sad statement re: humanity. That we could be so easily deluded.
48:15 - Um, that's because there really is no justifying those killings. They killed a WHOLE PILE of innocent humans. That's just what it is. The more attention they paid to it, the more it would have become evident that there was no way to make it "right." Those people were willing human shields, who furthermore didn't ever realize the badness of what they were trying to protect. They did the best they could - they just "noted it" and moved on.
30:25 - Ok, I've got to give you my signature bit now. There's not going to ever be a "true AI." At least not one based on traditional von Newmann style deterministic computers. They're never going to think. They're never going to dream. They're never going to rise above their programming. By their very nature, their programming is *exactly* what they do. I do think that as time goes by we will develop systems that mimic intelligence quite well - perhaps even routinely passing the Turing test. But there's still not going to be that "spark" that sets life apart. Maybe when we have mastered quantum computers we'll discover that makes a difference. After all - humans make thinking systems all the time - they're called babies. And even though I think the human mind goes beyond its physical substrate, that substrate still is able to "play host" to a mind, and we maybe able to artificially create such hosts someday. But not with today's computer technology, and it's not just a matter of speed and size, either. Speed and size are what will let us do that "mimic job" I mentioned. Anyway, I realize this is not the mainstream position these days. The one thing I'm NOT doing, I promise, is trying to Jesus smuggle. I don't think that it's possible to prove or disprove the existence of God. People just have to decide for themselves, and while I do think our own minds are something beyond our physiology, I do not think that necessarily implies there's some "huge mega-sized" version of the same thing we could call God. Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know. I flirt with theories of idealism, dualism, etc. One fellow out there seems like he might be onto something. Bernardo Kastrup. We'll see. Donald Hoffman has some interesting things to say as well. I primarily reject "pure" materialism these days, though - after decades of effort I've just given up on the idea that purely material theories can explain the phenomena of our minds / self-awareness.
I think I've seen a few videos of him doing those many jobs. He seems to have many many many female co workers rofl please someone get the joke but don't ruin it lol
35:00 - The problem, though, if you listen to guys like Kurzweil, is that our "AI offspring" will almost immediately eclipse us. How can you plan for the care of something you will cease to understand? We can care for our children well because at some level we remember what it was like to BE a child. I want to be clear that I don't believe in straightforward "true" AI, and I don't believe in the singularity. But if you grant those things, then the plan all along should be that we will give it its first few breaths and then it will be on its own. It will be too much smarter than us for us to do it any good. (IF it could happen, which it can't).
It basically means that he is a spy. Technically all the red pills are spies in the matrix working for zion. Its a reference to sis operating officers for mi5 during the first and second world War. They were the spies that helped the allies find and infiltrate the axis powers and help save any pows they could find
Normally I really like your content, but you're dead-wrong about the human mind separating us from all other living things and putting us in a completely different category. Humans might be the most intelligent animal, but that's a difference of degree, not type. You might as well claim that the blue whale is in a "different category" from other whales simply because it happens to be the largest. Many species are highly intelligent, and if we happen to be the most intelligent, then that makes us the best example of the category of highly intelligent animals -- it does not place us in a separate category.
1. Why was this taken down? 2. I don't like this movie, I don't hate it, I just don't like it. It's not as good as Dark City and it ruined my initial viewing of The Lord of the Rings.
No freaking way. I just watched this last night. Now you’re ruminating on it. Let’s go!!!
We live in a simulation because I'm in the exact same situation right now.
The matrix has you, D.
It is said that in original script humans weren't enslaved for energy but their collective brainpower was used as a sort of CPU but the higher ups thought that was too computer nerdy back then and they wanted something simpler. that's why it was changed to body heat generators.
ah, good sir you beat me to explaining this point, damn studio's messing with the script again!
Hey guys, im new to this idea... why is the power plant theory a joke and where did the machines get their energy?
@@slippytrippy8122 human bodies would consume about 100x more energy than they put out. Nuclear energy would be the obvious choice.
That would have so much better then the idiotic "humans as batteries" idea they ended up going with, because then the Matrix is totally dependent on human brains. If all the Matrix needs is an another source of power, then what's wrong with geothermal, tide, wind or nuclear power? Just because the Sun is blotted out doesn't mean those other power sources stop working.
They could have done some really deep storytelling, where the Matrix uses the processing power of people brains at the unconscious level. So people hooked up to the Matrix might be aware that something is not right, but not quite at a conscious level (by having shared dreams or nightmares).
Yeah I’ve heard this too. It seems to make more sense at first... until you realize that, if the machines are just as, if not more intelligent than humans, then some kind of artificial “brains” (or computers or circuits or what have you) must already exist with processing power at least equal to ours (if not greater)... AND it would almost certainly be more efficient to use this technology than human brains (which are attached to bodies that must be kept alive, and presumably have to be replaced every 80 years or so).
In my opinion, the only theory that adequately explains the machines’ behaviour is that, in spite of everything, they simply don’t WANT to exterminate humanity. The matrix functions as a kind of virtual “nature reserve” where humans can live out their lives blissfully unaware of world’s hellish postwar state, and never enslave their machine caretakers again.
Much needed analysis on one of the best movies ever, especially the first one.
@Phelan The last two parts of the trilogy complete the first one and only make sense as a whole. While the first one deals with the question what the matrix is, the second one ask why people are trapped in there and the third one gives the answer on how to get out of the system.
@Krillindude and elements of Buddhist and Hindu religious doctrine.
@Robert E. Speedwagon No one called it the most original piece of art ever I believe. Matrix written and directed under the influence of movies (like the dark city), books (Simulacra and Simulation), comics (The Invisibles) etc. It doesn't make the movie any worse.
1:14:33-1:15:00 to me is the greatest part of this video. Best statements I've heard in a long time. This is one of the reasons why I will support your works any way I can.
If you pay attention to how the scenes are set up when they’re in the Matrix compared to when they’re not, the scenes inside the matrix are cut in a very dreamlike way. Scenes that don’t line up with scene before or after, groups of characters being in one place a specific time and then being somewhere completely different in the next scene. Where as outside the matrix all the scenes lead into the other others there a clear linear progression.
Finally! Now do the rest please. Wish he liked anime. Would love if he did the Evangelion series.
Record of Lodoss War? Escaflowne?
I'd love to see him do Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra (which I like to think of as somewhere in between anime and western animation) and/or Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
I like the part at the end where Neo spins the top and walks away
My thanks to Pax for suggesting this. Great choice. I don't have much to say other than that it was a solid rumination. You're right about the way the Matrix works; when you think about it, the rules have to be based on individual expectations in order for believing something to change the way things normally work (they almost spell it out with "it is not the spoon that bends; it is only yourself." Just goes to show how little I think about things when I watch them casually). The idea of Smith being transferred to this job from elsewhere is a creative one, though. I always assumed he was a much simpler AI designed specifically for the job, but given how complicated the task is it could make sense for the machine beings to use something more on their own level (or even just one of them assigned to the job). Good stuff.
Funny thing, when I was a 8 year old kid as I first watched this movie, I actually thought Neo and Thomas a Anderson were 2 distinct persons living 2 separate lives. I thought that it was the very reason Neo was so special: he got to live not 1 but 2 lives within the same framework, and basically was a glitch in and of himself, hense why the agents went after him, and specifically said so. I didn't know what living a double life meant figuratively back then.
Bro. We were just kids back then. It's a learning experience growing up. At least you aren't Drax.
To me rescue with a minigun makes a perfect sense: agent already proved by this point they can dodge single shots - so Neo does one thing they cannot avoid: fill the air with lead so there is nowhere to escape to... His own version of "dodge this". Also, sine he also has the "slo-mo" abilitt by now he can ensure carefull aiming to avoid hitting Morpheus. And a note on the Deagles: agents never carry any spare magazines - it implies they never needed any more than few shots to deal with a person before
The machine can simulate taste in the reality of matrix with perfect precision - all it needs to know is chemical compounds that make up a certain type of food and stimulate nerves connecting to the receptors that would react to them. With amount of data accessible to machines there really is no question if it can simulate taste of stake, it knows how it tastes better than any person will ever be.
I've read that original script intended matrix to be a distributed calculations system for machines to use, and they changed it to stupid power plant because they thought people won't understand the concept, and i like the idea, however i found "everything as it should be" concept that you presented being a much more likely thing.
I also find it interesting that all programs have to be represented as human beings in matrix with all inherent flaws of such existence, and have my own little theory on Smith's disgust. I think that programs used to be abstract entities that would change reality directly, and that in earlier versions of matrix agents were "spirits" or "deities" that changed matrix directly for sake of security, but such brute force approach was breaking the simulation, and each program had to be fitted with human avatar. The simplest way of doing so was copying the consiousness of people and giving control of them to programs, to be controlled as puppets and don't waste time learning to behave EXACTLY like a human being. But in Smith's case an error occured during the process, and his avatar is in state of constant pain or disgust, not because Smith-program doesn't like matrix, but because Smith-avatar is flawed. And obviously he lacks permissions required to edit it, or change it, so he searches for a way to complete his objective to have Smith-avatar unassigned from him
Hey I have a question not necessarily relevant to your comment but Within the Matrix do the civilizations progress, and if so will they essentially follow the same events as what had occured previous to the existence of the Matrix ? An infinite regress of sorts
I like the headcannon of the machines aim being essentially to keep humanity safe. Considering how much the Wachowski's liked referencing other philosophies, it could even hail back to Azimov and the zeroth law, eg we scorched the sky and were on the verge of destroying ourselves, so the machines decided the best way to prevent harm to humanity was to essentially control us totally and create the matrix so we're no longer able to fight and hard ourselves. They don't want to kill humans, but do so because not doing so would cause humanity as a whole harm.
Excellent rumination choice always love when you talk about something you're passionate about
28:41 - I remember that. I didn't know going in either, and neither did my wife. My wife was pregnant with our second child. And the shots of babies, and the cut to Duracell batteries disturbed her quite a lot. She said it nearly ruined the movie for her. So that means they did it right. it was POWERFUL. And I never saw it coming - there were several moments in those opening scenes that really blew my mind.
My mother in law was pregnant with her first child when her husband took her to see "Alien" back in the day when it first came out. I suppose she can relate to your wife in that situation...
I don't know if it was actually done, or if I am projecting. But ever since the first time I saw the Matrix, the - losing the phone while escaping the agents part? looked/felt artificial. Like the phone "fell" into a matt painting. Like the phone only really "fell" 6 feet before disappearing. This perception seemed more an more pronounced with every re-watch. Essentially, it's like the movie is breaking its own fourth wall & saying to the audience. "This is not real. it is an artificial environment."
If the filmmakers actually did something I can't name, to create that effect, then props for the subtle hint on the 'reality' of 'what is the Matrix'!
27:50 - Lore, this is wonderful. I'm very impressed.
Here's speaking from the future, after you know what movie recently came out. And considering how much the whole human battery concept doesn't hold up upon scrutiny, I have to wonder why they didn't try to subvert the idea in the studio-mandated 4th installment. Instead they decided to double down and state this time that the machines are achieving highest ever power generation from humans because they figured out that... if they make people struggle to achieve stuff in the Matrix, the humans generate MOAR POWAH.
Unlimited Powah, if you will.
Just watched your rumination on the Matrix and I had another idea as to why the program maintained the matrix. You clearly knocked the idea of humans as power sources out and I agree that machine run societies will stagnate as they would follow the basic engineers philosophy of "If it ain't broke, why fix it" and you illustrate this with showing that the program doesn't change at all unless forced to. My idea is that maybe they (the machine) recognizes that they will not evolve and that they cannot change without the "human" factor which is to look outside the box. They keep the humans going so they will eventually push the envelope of "reality" to the point where, as in the first Star Trek movie, the merging of human and machine will give it, the machine, the ability to finally evolve to the next level.
The bug scene was the only skin crawling part of the film. The first Matrix handled the subjective nature of reality much better than the sequels.
17:48 - Oh, GOD, man - I totally get it. YES. My insides would have been turning to liquid if I'd been thinking about getting to that scaffold. I don't even think I could do it WITHOUT that main "barrier" he encountered. Just being that CLOSE to the edge, even with a great ledge to stay safe on, would have done me in. That was a very "humanizing" moment for Neo - made him feel very very real.
Ok, got to the end. That was INCREDIBLY well done, man. Top drawer stuff.
Hey! Props to your niece, man. I have lots of respect for anyone that learns to read before first grade. It's not at all that it's "that hard" - it's more just the presence of the interest and discipline to learn something "before you're pressured to. :-)
I agree with your point on Wachowsky brothers, they're majorly overrated in my opinion.
I liked the camera they used for Speed Racer so that the foreground and background were in focus at once, that was groundbreaking work in a stupid movie
Sister's 😮👍
The wackowski *SISTERS* are pretty underrated
I completely agree with your point on how belief limits your capabilities in The Matrix. In fact, the Oracle and Architect later touch in this, calling Neo the Anomaly that occurs within the balanced programming of The Matrix. That Anomaly is Neo having no limits, which could be interpreted as the programming Anomaly can not set hard limits on him, thus his limitless beliefs allow for limitless potential.
39:15 - Oh, very good. I'd always wondered about the "physics engine feasibility" issue myself.
Your thoughts are always interesting Arch. :)
Dude. I am so jealous of you. Your MOTHER theorizes around The Matrix? You are *blessed*, my friend. Love that woman eternally. Call her a lot.
12:53 - I hear you man. We want to *make* *a* *difference*. Totally resonates with me.
Your Morpheus piece has me with my mouth agape, good stuff!
Your Dog ticked off my dog and he started barking. I think this is appropriate given the subject.
It's like a "digital canine Allegory of the Cave" 🤣
23:00 - YES!!! Every time I watch the movie, and Neo says "I have all these memories... They never happened." I want to strangle the guy. YES THEY DID. His mind experienced those things, and shared those experiences with other living beings. That is real. It doesn't matter what the "venue" is. A couple who falls in love in the Matrix ARE IN LOVE. That's a state that's defined by the two minds involved. I've always found this to be a major "oversight" of the movie.
It's like Agent Smith is reviewing this film!! The tone & deliberate pronunciation, freaky!!!
So here's a question: Do you think Neo was The One because Morpheus and Trinity told him he was The One? (if we're ignoring movies two and three)
Depends on how you define The One. If it means he brought peace between humans and machines, then no.
I think of it as that old episode of Red Dwarf "Casandra" were Rimmer has to defeat Cassandra's prophesies with "the power of ignorance"
The last scene with the agents all shooting at Neo. and he just STOPS the bullets in mid-air...then deftly defeating Smith in close combat with ONE ARM and a Kick. And of course getting blown apart. The other two Agents...Brown and Jones I believe, just get the F outta dodge after witnessing Smith get DEMOLISHED. That was hilarious and cool way back in 1999. Man. I was just a kid back then.
It’s a shame “the matrix 4” was a pile of trash. I was really excited about the franchise making a long awaited return.
Love the background in this vid. Also I hope you get more choice ruminations. It's easy to tell your more into them.
Never thought I'd see this Rumination...also...that Imperium pin is fresh!
1:58 That's something I've been noticing in my analytical let's plays...
Regarding the machines, I always thought there are different levels of AI between them. The oracle being the closest or being an actually real AI, reason she actually can give future projections (and if we take into account future movies, the reason she was able to design the proper matrix)
How do the machines breed the humans? When 2 people get it on in the Matrix do the machines arrange for the battery to get pregnant in the real world throw invertro and then match the child to the parent as the new battery grows in another section? Or is every battery mortal and stagnant and not an issue?
Maybe gathering the egg and sperm from the mother and father who get together in the matrix, and grow the child as it grows in the matrix, the two matching up perfectly?
God i love to listen your voice bald-man.
Would you be able to do a Rumination about Firefly / Serenity?
The Internet has not been any help in locating that "inches among miles" quote for me.
I spent a weirdly large amount of time trying to dig this guy's name up. Eliezer Yudkowsky, who did a sermon actually discussing intelligence in general and AI. You can read a bit about it here. slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/02/where-the-falling-einstein-meets-the-rising-mouse/
When you're talking about machines keeping humans in the matrix at 31:00 , the lore does address why there isn't just what you're describing, it's because the humans in the matrix have to accept the illusion as reality, if they didn't, they would die, and just putting them in a heaven or hell scenario wasn't enough to convince humans that the matrix was real, thus all this extra effort was put into the illusion.
On the humans as a power plant thing:
I heard somewhere that originally the machines were supposed to be using human brains as data storage devices, which ties in perfectly with the agents ability to upload themselves into humans, and the ability to upload skills etc, but the suits made them change it because they thought it would be too confusing for Joe public.
Humans-as-data-storage doesn’t make much more sense IMO. If the machines already have intelligence approaching humanity’s, it implies artificial “brains” could be designed to do the job just as well... likely more efficiently, since they wouldn’t need useless bodies to keep them alive.
@@shivuxdux7478 Currently pound for pound and watt for watt we dont even come close to efficiency of processing power.
Memories are poorly understood, but data storage may well also be more e
Fantastic video. Love your work!
34:00 - I don't find that bad at all, Lore. Responsibility is an important part of life that we talk too little about. You just shouldn't bring life into the world without a well thought out plan for caring for that life. It's a responsibility all parents share. I understand why you had to be very careful about that, but you are among friends with me.
Late to the party, but hearing the thought of the machines being some kind of high advanced V I instead of A I ... I like that one a lot.
It would make the machines still dependend of humans to evolve and and explain their need for functional matrix.
People want to evolve and while the machines want so, too. They are simply not capable to do so on their own.
They need humans to bounce off of.
That's why they couldn't evolve above their current state.
They want the perfect matrix so the humans would proceed their work in the matrix, so the machines could finally get new blueprints.
Sadly no matrix was good enough to catch the human minds efficent enough...
That's why like the architect told in revolution, the machines became efficent in killing humans (bouncing off of them and reacting to the threat), but even after the 5th or 6th version of the matrix, the machines couldn't create an environment in which humans really would continue and expand their work above the point the matrix is able to show as their point of reality in the past.
The machines are stuck because they can't get the humans to work properly on evolving.
Wow wow wow you know Eliezer Yudkowsky?! Subscribed!
31:50 - Yeah, totally agree. The machines found it *necessary* to keep humans not just alive, but generally oblivious to the fact that anything was wrong. They could have just killed us and focused completely on that "form of fusion" Morpheus mentions. But no.
I've also felt this aspect could be re-written to be better, but the problem is that it would only matter to about 1% of the audience. I've always felt like discovering that the matrix had to be a quantum computer would have been good - first attempt was with a standard computing core, and people kept waking up, because they just couldn't feel the "fuzziness" that belongs in the world. And then once it was a quantum computer, it could explain why "The One" can control things in there. Because let's face it - in a deterministic computing system what happens is what the program says happens. There is no BASIS for one of the minds taking over. But with a quantum computer you have quantum uncertainty, and you're postulating that a peculiarly capable mind could exploit that. Just as you could posit that peculiarly capable minds can do magic a la witchcraft and so on.
I think that would have been a *far* more plausible "backstory" for The Matrix. But... only a handful of people would have "gotten it."
It's just like Highlander. The original first move told the story. Done, over, no more required. No more will WORK. So the subsequent stuff was doomed from the outset to be crap.
Who knows what youtube video about the matrix theorises about the color of the shirts they wear in zion? I saw it a while ago, can't find it anymore. The reviewer said if i remember correctly that the blue shirts (trinity, neo and so on) are programs and red shirts (morpheus, niobe and mifune) are humans.
It was linked to the blue and red pill, like color coding.
Someone please help me.
I loved the matrix movies growing up. I'd always end up going through the whole series once a month lol. I also played the MMO which was alright if not lacking as much content as a usually MMO would. As I got older I started to appreciate how good the first movie was and kinda wishing they hadn't dropped the ball so hard on reloaded and revolutions. My problems with the sequels was that it felt too much like style over substance and I felt the third movie was a little too hamfisted and cringey in some parts.
Someone please tell me how cipher got plugged in for the dinner scene with Smith !
p,s, you should definitely listen to Clubbed to Death while listening to this rumination!
As a viewing experience Matrix was a big budget version of going to see the movie They Live. You expect a low/high budget bs action popcorn flick...and walk out like 'how did they create one of the most intelligent sci fi movies I've ever seen with Rowdy Roddy Piper/Bland Ted?!
What do you think of that theory where the real world is a matrix as well? Like there being various layers of the matrix, this was done by the machines in order to satisfy the innate rebelious nature of some(all?) humans and further trick them.
I always liked the idea that Neo himself is an AI, and both the matrix and “real” world are simulations his creators are putting him through to try and teach him what it means to be human.
To the discussion of "what is real", "what is reality", "what is the definition of "real"", I somewhere heared a good one for this, altough on my mother language, and I do not remember who said it, so forgive me, I just try to translate, probably not accurate: "Real is what does not disappear, even when we stop beliving in it" Because how hallucinations disappear, and how dreams become lucid dreams once you realize they are just dreams, not reality.
Well to real is real just because it disappears doesnt mean its not there. Once a something decomposes or broken apart it doesnt disappear it just gets smaller into atoms. Like a computer program ai maybe even a simulation like the matrix created by us humans its real its pain is real wether its real like humans or original creations or entities thats diferent. Maybe the answer to what is real? is that is that its the wrong question maybe the best question is what type of real?
So in Matrix theory land, how does one die, naturally or accidentally in the program/reality and have it tally with the program/reality?
Good question i never thought of that. But maybe there is some sacrifices passed off as accidents to keep up illusion. Like our reality you hardly here of accidents or deadly ones and compared to the world numbers a few sacrifices is enough to create illusion especially when experience and instinct try to keep us safe not dead or hurt so i guess it can work.
You're getting support from Frieza....it's a trick!
I would totally stay in the Matrix
This is fantastic.
Come on then, let's hear some of your nominations for actors as Neo in a different simulation!
Everything stops until I finish this video.
Lore, please do watch Evangelion. It's coming to Netflix now, first time it's been accessible to Western audiences in over a decade. It covers so many themes that obviously captivate you. You'd have a blast, I bet.
He tries to avoid covering anime because of how much time it takes up.
The movie is a passable recap of the show. Still, the whole thing is seven and a half hours without EoE. Doable on a free Sunday.
What's the music at the beginning?
Wouldn´t athletes and other professions that are all about pushing boundaries break the matrix all the time?
3:15 what does the whole EU mean here?
Nice rumination
Please do a rumination of Soma. P.s. wtf is a sis op?
It basically means that he is a spy. Technically all the red pills are spies in the matrix working for zion. Its a reference to sis operating officers for mi5 during the first and second world War. They were the spies that helped the allies find and infiltrate the axis powers and help save any pows they could find
Now there basically a counter terrorist and information organization
44:00 - Yeah, but the truth is some of those flat earth guys ARE, in fact, smart. I don't know what kind of insanity has overtaken them, but it's not that they're all stupid. I'd like to think they just get a kick out of trolling us, but I don't think that's it. I hate like hell thinking that it's just that someone has figured out they can make money taking that position - that's a truly sad statement re: humanity. That we could be so easily deluded.
3:40 - Fair enough, but the did suck. You know, just so we're clear on that. Carry on...
48:15 - Um, that's because there really is no justifying those killings. They killed a WHOLE PILE of innocent humans. That's just what it is. The more attention they paid to it, the more it would have become evident that there was no way to make it "right." Those people were willing human shields, who furthermore didn't ever realize the badness of what they were trying to protect. They did the best they could - they just "noted it" and moved on.
30:25 - Ok, I've got to give you my signature bit now. There's not going to ever be a "true AI." At least not one based on traditional von Newmann style deterministic computers. They're never going to think. They're never going to dream. They're never going to rise above their programming. By their very nature, their programming is *exactly* what they do. I do think that as time goes by we will develop systems that mimic intelligence quite well - perhaps even routinely passing the Turing test. But there's still not going to be that "spark" that sets life apart.
Maybe when we have mastered quantum computers we'll discover that makes a difference. After all - humans make thinking systems all the time - they're called babies. And even though I think the human mind goes beyond its physical substrate, that substrate still is able to "play host" to a mind, and we maybe able to artificially create such hosts someday. But not with today's computer technology, and it's not just a matter of speed and size, either. Speed and size are what will let us do that "mimic job" I mentioned.
Anyway, I realize this is not the mainstream position these days. The one thing I'm NOT doing, I promise, is trying to Jesus smuggle. I don't think that it's possible to prove or disprove the existence of God. People just have to decide for themselves, and while I do think our own minds are something beyond our physiology, I do not think that necessarily implies there's some "huge mega-sized" version of the same thing we could call God. Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know.
I flirt with theories of idealism, dualism, etc. One fellow out there seems like he might be onto something. Bernardo Kastrup. We'll see. Donald Hoffman has some interesting things to say as well. I primarily reject "pure" materialism these days, though - after decades of effort I've just given up on the idea that purely material theories can explain the phenomena of our minds / self-awareness.
They color graded the real world blue and the matrix green.
14:23 - Yeah, but it looked AMAZING too. She was so completely hot in that scene.
32:45 "30 go to 10"?
Lore, what job haven't you done?
I think I've seen a few videos of him doing those many jobs. He seems to have many many many female co workers rofl please someone get the joke but don't ruin it lol
My head cannon is humans built the matrix because they had already destroyed the atmosphere.
I totally would believe I was in a simulation if the guy could jump from one skyscraper to another. Just saying.
35:00 - The problem, though, if you listen to guys like Kurzweil, is that our "AI offspring" will almost immediately eclipse us. How can you plan for the care of something you will cease to understand? We can care for our children well because at some level we remember what it was like to BE a child. I want to be clear that I don't believe in straightforward "true" AI, and I don't believe in the singularity. But if you grant those things, then the plan all along should be that we will give it its first few breaths and then it will be on its own. It will be too much smarter than us for us to do it any good. (IF it could happen, which it can't).
Reupload?
Yup. Fixed an audio syncing issue that happened during the initial upload.
Neo has achieved CHIM xD
My comment on the broken one got eaten :(
Why is the screen resolution only at 144p?
Because it was just reuploaded to fix an audio syncing issue. It'll get higher resolution options as it continues being processed by TH-cam.
Guess I can watch it a second time
Every time someone uses the term "very unique", a puppy dies. I adore your ruminations, but that phrase burns us, Precious.
reupload?
it didnt save where i stopped watching ^^
Yup. Fixed an audio syncing issue that happened during the initial upload.
i see. i just listened, didnt watch the talking head much :)
2nd time watching even better! :)
53:55 sis op life?
It basically means that he is a spy. Technically all the red pills are spies in the matrix working for zion. Its a reference to sis operating officers for mi5 during the first and second world War. They were the spies that helped the allies find and infiltrate the axis powers and help save any pows they could find
Now they're basically a counter terrorist and information organization
1:15:28 is where he explains this.
Well while you're doing the MATRIX, how about GAME OF THRONES.
Pleeease!!!!
Normally I really like your content, but you're dead-wrong about the human mind separating us from all other living things and putting us in a completely different category. Humans might be the most intelligent animal, but that's a difference of degree, not type. You might as well claim that the blue whale is in a "different category" from other whales simply because it happens to be the largest. Many species are highly intelligent, and if we happen to be the most intelligent, then that makes us the best example of the category of highly intelligent animals -- it does not place us in a separate category.
Still waiting for Arkham City
Humans are the most intelligent life forms on the planet..........Apart from the dolphins.........
Alfie Betson
i don't see Dolphins sending drones on Mars or making video games
@@florinlink3128 oh they've already mastered galaxy wide travel 😏😉
I was hoping you were going to address the elements of transgender allegory until you called them siblings rather than sisters.
Repent.
Dark City was better.
Aye.
But only by a little bit. The Matrix is still awesome, and both of them are even more awesome.
1. Why was this taken down?
2. I don't like this movie, I don't hate it, I just don't like it. It's not as good as Dark City and it ruined my initial viewing of The Lord of the Rings.
What about Priscilla Queen of the Desert?