Well it's 2 am here in Germany, I will have to wake up at 6:30 am to go to school, but now that you uploaded a video I have to watch it and be angry at myself when im sitting in class being tired af xD but it's worth it every time :D
Restoration For Beginners To late now, I would say it's interesting enough to stay up for ^^ I would really enjoy some kinda outro card with the last two episodes as recommendations by the way 🤔 the endings are a bit harsh atm. Other than that it's been great to watch 👍
Haha I'm new at video editing. I never made a single video before I started this channel, so I like to think that I'm continuously improving =) Thanks for the tip, I'll see what I can do to "wrap up" each video a bit neater.
I'm currently saving up to buy my first car, a Z. Your videos are helping me a lot, so please don't stop doing them. Thanks so much for the knowledge you provide!
I'm surprised you aren't using a feeler gauge to gap your plugs, I've always been told the round gapper isn't ideal for plugs since it has a very slight angle to it. Great vid and info as usual though!
Haha that's a fair point. I knew that the gapper wasn't that precise of a measuring tool, but I was just trying to get it in the middle of the range (0.039~0.044). I thought that'd be good enough, but you're right. Feeler gauges would be better.
One other thing that I did was got a battery with the terminals switched. I did this because the positive terminal in the stock design is very close to the body and could short out with the it. If you get the one with the terminals switched, make sure to switch the wires too as they are different lengths. I just switched the positive and ground completely so my positive cable is now my ground. No more shorting issues.
I have this exact problem in my 1972 Datsun 240z which carries twin SU ROund Top Carbs with Cylinder number 4. Whenever the car is stuck on light to heavy traffic, the spark plug starts fouling. Once i start cruising again the engine misfires until the plug is cleaned. I am using NGK BP5ES or NGK BP6ES. Any clue on solving this problem? Could it be a Valve Seal?
do you have a borescope? if so try removing a couple spark plugs examine the top of the piston around the edges, #5 to any of the other that seem to be ok when reading the plugs. See if the edges look different, the Datsun book makes mention of clean edges being a sign of worn rings.Could be stuck oil control ring, I don't know if any of the claims for the various snake oils are true but maybe worth a try. I have used marvel mystery oil in my car since I got it, thinking it may help with cleaning the old fuel lines etc...You could try lowering the #5 piston in its bore, and filling the cylinder with MMO, let it set over night, and the use a syringe to suck it back out, leave the spark plug out, spin the engine with a remote starter to clear any residual cleaner (you want to avoid a hydraulic lock) and once satisfied its cleared put a bit of straight engine oil spin again and then install an old plug start it, run for a bit noting any smoke, after smoke clears up (left over from the treatment) new plug and give it a try. I have NO evidence that this practice will help, I am just throwing out ideas for you to consider and if sound plausible try. What ever you do make sure you really really avoid a hydraulic lock. Granted if the oil ring is stuck and this unsticks it, the fix may be temporary, but I cant see how it would hurt to try. It may be a good idea to change the oil also IF a substantial amount of the MMO leaks down the cylinder (note how much you put in vs how much you get out). I don't think its wise to run that stuff or any solvent in the oil for an extended time. Who knows if its a stuck ring maybe just taking the car out and driving the crud out of it may be the answer too.
I hear you. I've been thinking of trying various "snake oil" methods to clean/loosen up the inside of the block, but I think I'll wait until I'm done with all the tune up stuff and get a read on the spark plugs one more time to verify that I still have the same problem. While I don't have a borescope, I think peeking in might be worth a try once we put a few more thousand miles on the engine. Last time I saw that piston it was almost squeaky clean from the head gasket leak, so I'm not sure if I'll find any useful information just yet.
oh yea forgot you just cleaned up the tops, would take a while for carbon to build up (or not on the edges). Those borescopes come in handy I got the cheap one 80$ IIRC has come in handy peering into hard to see places. can get them real cheap if you have things like smart phones, I don't just got the cheapie from HF.
Gotcha. By the way, I've been binge watching your videos in the last few days. I'm thinking about grabbing an extra 5-speed as well... I really need to finish some stuff up before I take on new challenges.
word of warning, if you get any odd sounds from any transmission, try a new shift knob, yes the shift knob. I was still getting some odd sounds from mine, someone else on the classicz forum was having the same problem, he was told to check out the knob and that was it. So I pulled mine and filled it with lead in the void, and sure enough noise gone. apparently it was resonating with vibration. Note I had a NON standard aftermarket knob.
Hello all off you guys, I have a Nissan Datsun1983 zx280 it’s very Beautiful car, and I have 1 issues with a missing fire when the rpm comes up to 3 or 4 the car start Cut firing please if anyone have any idea please help me guys
I have read that the valve seals can tear on installation, so when head was rebuilt maybe on got snagged? its a long shot but something to look into before tearing down the bottom end looking for an oil control ring issue. Did you have the shop rebuild the head or did you do it after the machine work?
I heard that as well. But it's such a coincidence that the valve seal would be broken on cyl #5 right? Actually, I think I should reserve judgement on that cylinder before I pull the new spark plug out after a few hundred miles. I don't know if the fouled-up spark plug was symptomatic of the old engine, or the new one after FI refresh and head rebuild. But... if I were a betting man... I'm going to bet that thing comes out black again. Why else would I have blue smoke right?
yea something is causing that smoke. The valve stem seal would be a long shot, same bad cylinder from before just happens to get a torn seal... not likely. My guess is a stuck oil control ring (or worse a broken one). I would just to the least invasive fixes while monitoring it like you are doing. Keep track of the actual oil consumption too, that would be a good metric to keep up with as you try different things. On mine I consume oil as well hard to say how much as I don't drive it on a regular basis, but it does lose oil and its not leaking. I do have nice looking insulators on the plugs, but the metal part around the perimeter tends to look blackish. Not sure if its carbon or burned oil. I don't notice any blue smoke but that could be since I have not looked hard enough. If I had to guess I would say a certain amount of oil consumption is typical, just don't want it to be excessive. Back in the day it was routine to check engine oil when ever we did a fill up. The thing about my black residue is its very consistent, all the plugs have it and to the same degree.
+visualideas hey mn, sorry for the late response. Been busy lately. Look online for something called the datsun fuel injection bible. Should have the testing procedure in there.
Restoration For Beginners all good mate. I got her running the day before. I had to trace wires going into the ECM. It was not getting power. I have it running now. I dropped the tank yesterday and I will get it cleaned and coated before I go forward. Just got to get some money together. Once it runs right on its own, then I'll start on suspension stuff. Gonna change out all bushings. That may be easy or hard depending on the state of the bolts. Seems ok till now though. :)
Haha alright, that's cool. You'll have to give me some advice once you start tearing apart the suspension, because all of my bushings need to be changed out as well. Not to mention one of the lower control arms in the front was actually bent, so I'll have to replace that (which will be pretty costly...)
You can use a Anti-Fouler on plug 5, that should help in keeping the oil off the plug. Lets hope you dont need to do this, but its a option. Auto parts stores normally have them, You will need a 14mm, Long. A 14mm Short will crush the tip of the plug when you tighten the plug into it. Lets cross our fingers that the plug comes out clean. Wonder where we came up with the saying, Cross your Fingers ? Have you thought about mounting a Heat Sink on to the Ignition Module to keep it a little cooler, otherwise they burn out from heat.
Ah. Thanks for the tip! I'll certainly look into that if the oil issue hasn't resolved itself already. You reminded me of this guy with a pretty memorable story: forums.corral.net/forums/lounge/1012617-why-you-dont-put-spark-plug-non-foulers-non-fouling-cylinders.html
Im thinking the tip of the plug was touching the metal anti fouler and was shorted, no other reason for it to get hotter, seems to me it would be colder then the others. But he was right , only one way to fix it. Im so glad that money now grows on trees, didnt use to be that way. I had a running rich and screwing up my plugs, until I adjusted the AFM just a little. Problem solved. You should be able to tell if you still have the problem by just starting it up and letting it idle for just a short period, 30 minutes or so.I ran quarter mile cars in the early 70s, if it can be blown out of a engine, Ive done it.
That pretty awesome to hear. I'm sure the anti-fouler will function fine, I just remembered reading that story a while back and you reminded me of it! Do you ever worry about any possible negative performance impact from anti-foulers?
I havent used them yet, I bought some but since I adjusted my AFM and Im not running so rich now dont think I will be needing them. Tho I will find out, Ive checked the plugs after around 100 miles, they were ok, but after around 200 miles will be the final test. Fine tuning these engines is a real Art.
I'm just holding my breath, waiting for someone to come along and tell me I did/said something stupid in this one. I'm definitely not an expert at electrical testing (home mechanics rarely are...), so please let me know if you have any additional tips, tricks, or corrections!
Wasn't cylinder #5 the suspect cylinder when the head came off the first time? Or maybe it was #6? It looked clean and shiny as if it wasn't experiencing combustion if I remember right? It looked like a motor someone was driving around on five cylinders. Valve sealing...I don't know. It's a new head...isn't everything above the block replaced or otherwise new? It just seems like the chances of this happening from the top with two different heads is so low. Which leaves a ring problem, and yet the compression was very healthy. There was no oil squirted into the top of cyl #5 before that compression test done on video? I'm reaching on that one. I just don't understand it. The combination of things going on in #5 don't make sense to me. There is time between this combination of things however and you've been working diligently. My gambling money says you already fixed it. After the recent solid compression test, I wondered if the #5 valves were just crazy-out of adjustment on both heads. I wondered if I had given you bad advice. And I'm just newbspeculating here but did #5 have more "wet" compression tests than other cyls and maybe oil collected in the combustion chamber and eventually fouled the plug? Based on the way the plug looked at 200 miles, and if it's not resolved, you won't have to drive 200 more miles to know if there's an issue. :) It's going to be a moment of bliss if you pull that plug out and it looks healthy...!!!:D Good luck!
Haha you perfectly outlined my thoughts here as well. It just doesn't make sense. I honestly don't know if you can have a good compression reading AND have bad rings at the same time. I had the head rebuilt with new valve guides and seals, so I doubt that that's the problem here. Even if there was a problem, IT'S AT CYLINDER #5! The constantly problematic cylinder! That's too much of a coincidence. I'm hoping that this problem was already fixed with the head, and the spark plug won't come out black again. But deep down inside, I know that it will =( Just waiting for the weather to clear up so I can take it out again.
All my speculations fell apart when I saw that compression test. The one quick piece of info. I wish I had on this video is what the plug smelled like. Granted it would probably be too weird if plug-smelling was a part of the plug-reading lore in the video but still heh! I could see the plug well enough I just wanted to reach into the video and smell it too to test what the majority of its scent was. You seemed to confirm that it's motor oil. In theory a coincidence with #5 is possible or there's something else in the works here I'm just not thinking of. I'm guessing the plugs were new when the new head went on. But if the plug smelled like gas and was carbon/gas fouled...the injectors are new...could weak ignition in #5 --> combustion/mixture issue? Or could an oil ring work well at the top of a cylinder for a compression test result, but also have some kind of issue further down on the cylinder wall where oil could pass through? I'm totally reaching here again but it makes me think! A good blue smoke test with the new plugs would be easy and I'd think worth doing right away.
I'm just as confused at this point as you are. I'll take a sniff when I pull the replaced plugs out and see if I can tell if it's oil vs. fuel. I believe it's oil, but doesn't hurt to check. I'll also have to check that the injector and signal are working properly. I already checked for spark, no issues there. I'd be incredulous if it turns out to be a bad valve seal... it'd be such a coincidence. Dave seems to think that it might be a stuck oil ring. Never dealt with one before, but it's a guess that makes the most sense for now!
Well it's 2 am here in Germany, I will have to wake up at 6:30 am to go to school, but now that you uploaded a video I have to watch it and be angry at myself when im sitting in class being tired af xD but it's worth it every time :D
Go to sleep bro, this one isn't THAT interesting!
Restoration For Beginners To late now, I would say it's interesting enough to stay up for ^^
I would really enjoy some kinda outro card with the last two episodes as recommendations by the way 🤔 the endings are a bit harsh atm. Other than that it's been great to watch 👍
Haha I'm new at video editing. I never made a single video before I started this channel, so I like to think that I'm continuously improving =) Thanks for the tip, I'll see what I can do to "wrap up" each video a bit neater.
I'm currently saving up to buy my first car, a Z. Your videos are helping me a lot, so please don't stop doing them. Thanks so much for the knowledge you provide!
+Rare youre very welcome. Let me know when you make the purchase man, im excited for you.
I'm surprised you aren't using a feeler gauge to gap your plugs, I've always been told the round gapper isn't ideal for plugs since it has a very slight angle to it. Great vid and info as usual though!
Haha that's a fair point. I knew that the gapper wasn't that precise of a measuring tool, but I was just trying to get it in the middle of the range (0.039~0.044). I thought that'd be good enough, but you're right. Feeler gauges would be better.
where did you get your VSM from?
One other thing that I did was got a battery with the terminals switched. I did this because the positive terminal in the stock design is very close to the body and could short out with the it. If you get the one with the terminals switched, make sure to switch the wires too as they are different lengths. I just switched the positive and ground completely so my positive cable is now my ground. No more shorting issues.
Yup, that's a good tip. Did you see me blow a fusible link earlier by accidentally connecting the battery in reverse?
Restoration For Beginners that's on you brother. Not the battery lol.. :p
+visualideas haha oh totally. I wasnt paying attention :p but i learned to make a fusible link!
I have this exact problem in my 1972 Datsun 240z which carries twin SU ROund Top Carbs with Cylinder number 4. Whenever the car is stuck on light to heavy traffic, the spark plug starts fouling. Once i start cruising again the engine misfires until the plug is cleaned. I am using NGK BP5ES or NGK BP6ES. Any clue on solving this problem? Could it be a Valve Seal?
where can i find the fsm for the 1982 280zx turbo?
Any recommendation on where to get rubber fuel line replacements? Haven't had any luck at my local auto parts store /:
+two8ez oh really? They usually just send me to the back where I'm free to cut up any hose I want and they charge me by the foot.
do you have a borescope? if so try removing a couple spark plugs examine the top of the piston around the edges, #5 to any of the other that seem to be ok when reading the plugs. See if the edges look different, the Datsun book makes mention of clean edges being a sign of worn rings.Could be stuck oil control ring, I don't know if any of the claims for the various snake oils are true but maybe worth a try. I have used marvel mystery oil in my car since I got it, thinking it may help with cleaning the old fuel lines etc...You could try lowering the #5 piston in its bore, and filling the cylinder with MMO, let it set over night, and the use a syringe to suck it back out, leave the spark plug out, spin the engine with a remote starter to clear any residual cleaner (you want to avoid a hydraulic lock) and once satisfied its cleared put a bit of straight engine oil spin again and then install an old plug start it, run for a bit noting any smoke, after smoke clears up (left over from the treatment) new plug and give it a try. I have NO evidence that this practice will help, I am just throwing out ideas for you to consider and if sound plausible try. What ever you do make sure you really really avoid a hydraulic lock. Granted if the oil ring is stuck and this unsticks it, the fix may be temporary, but I cant see how it would hurt to try. It may be a good idea to change the oil also IF a substantial amount of the MMO leaks down the cylinder (note how much you put in vs how much you get out). I don't think its wise to run that stuff or any solvent in the oil for an extended time. Who knows if its a stuck ring maybe just taking the car out and driving the crud out of it may be the answer too.
I hear you. I've been thinking of trying various "snake oil" methods to clean/loosen up the inside of the block, but I think I'll wait until I'm done with all the tune up stuff and get a read on the spark plugs one more time to verify that I still have the same problem.
While I don't have a borescope, I think peeking in might be worth a try once we put a few more thousand miles on the engine. Last time I saw that piston it was almost squeaky clean from the head gasket leak, so I'm not sure if I'll find any useful information just yet.
oh yea forgot you just cleaned up the tops, would take a while for carbon to build up (or not on the edges). Those borescopes come in handy I got the cheap one 80$ IIRC has come in handy peering into hard to see places. can get them real cheap if you have things like smart phones, I don't just got the cheapie from HF.
Gotcha.
By the way, I've been binge watching your videos in the last few days. I'm thinking about grabbing an extra 5-speed as well... I really need to finish some stuff up before I take on new challenges.
word of warning, if you get any odd sounds from any transmission, try a new shift knob, yes the shift knob. I was still getting some odd sounds from mine, someone else on the classicz forum was having the same problem, he was told to check out the knob and that was it. So I pulled mine and filled it with lead in the void, and sure enough noise gone. apparently it was resonating with vibration. Note I had a NON standard aftermarket knob.
Hello all off you guys, I have a Nissan Datsun1983 zx280 it’s very Beautiful car, and I have 1 issues with a missing fire when the rpm comes up to 3 or 4 the car start Cut firing please if anyone have any idea please help me guys
maybe a valve stem seal on the problem cyl?
I have no idea Dave!
I have read that the valve seals can tear on installation, so when head was rebuilt maybe on got snagged? its a long shot but something to look into before tearing down the bottom end looking for an oil control ring issue. Did you have the shop rebuild the head or did you do it after the machine work?
I heard that as well. But it's such a coincidence that the valve seal would be broken on cyl #5 right? Actually, I think I should reserve judgement on that cylinder before I pull the new spark plug out after a few hundred miles. I don't know if the fouled-up spark plug was symptomatic of the old engine, or the new one after FI refresh and head rebuild.
But... if I were a betting man... I'm going to bet that thing comes out black again. Why else would I have blue smoke right?
yea something is causing that smoke. The valve stem seal would be a long shot, same bad cylinder from before just happens to get a torn seal... not likely. My guess is a stuck oil control ring (or worse a broken one). I would just to the least invasive fixes while monitoring it like you are doing. Keep track of the actual oil consumption too, that would be a good metric to keep up with as you try different things. On mine I consume oil as well hard to say how much as I don't drive it on a regular basis, but it does lose oil and its not leaking. I do have nice looking insulators on the plugs, but the metal part around the perimeter tends to look blackish. Not sure if its carbon or burned oil. I don't notice any blue smoke but that could be since I have not looked hard enough. If I had to guess I would say a certain amount of oil consumption is typical, just don't want it to be excessive. Back in the day it was routine to check engine oil when ever we did a fill up. The thing about my black residue is its very consistent, all the plugs have it and to the same degree.
Hey there. Is there anyway to check an ecm? I think I may have a bad one.
+visualideas hey mn, sorry for the late response. Been busy lately. Look online for something called the datsun fuel injection bible. Should have the testing procedure in there.
Restoration For Beginners all good mate. I got her running the day before. I had to trace wires going into the ECM. It was not getting power. I have it running now. I dropped the tank yesterday and I will get it cleaned and coated before I go forward. Just got to get some money together. Once it runs right on its own, then I'll start on suspension stuff. Gonna change out all bushings. That may be easy or hard depending on the state of the bolts. Seems ok till now though. :)
Haha alright, that's cool. You'll have to give me some advice once you start tearing apart the suspension, because all of my bushings need to be changed out as well. Not to mention one of the lower control arms in the front was actually bent, so I'll have to replace that (which will be pretty costly...)
You can use a Anti-Fouler on plug 5, that should help in keeping the oil off the plug. Lets hope you dont need to do this, but its a option. Auto parts stores normally have them, You will need a 14mm, Long. A 14mm Short will crush the tip of the plug when you tighten the plug into it. Lets cross our fingers that the plug comes out clean. Wonder where we came up with the saying, Cross your Fingers ? Have you thought about mounting a Heat Sink on to the Ignition Module to keep it a little cooler, otherwise they burn out from heat.
Ah. Thanks for the tip! I'll certainly look into that if the oil issue hasn't resolved itself already. You reminded me of this guy with a pretty memorable story: forums.corral.net/forums/lounge/1012617-why-you-dont-put-spark-plug-non-foulers-non-fouling-cylinders.html
Im thinking the tip of the plug was touching the metal anti fouler and was shorted, no other reason for it to get hotter, seems to me it would be colder then the others. But he was right , only one way to fix it. Im so glad that money now grows on trees, didnt use to be that way. I had a running rich and screwing up my plugs, until I adjusted the AFM just a little. Problem solved. You should be able to tell if you still have the problem by just starting it up and letting it idle for just a short period, 30 minutes or so.I ran quarter mile cars in the early 70s, if it can be blown out of a engine, Ive done it.
That pretty awesome to hear. I'm sure the anti-fouler will function fine, I just remembered reading that story a while back and you reminded me of it! Do you ever worry about any possible negative performance impact from anti-foulers?
I havent used them yet, I bought some but since I adjusted my AFM and Im not running so rich now dont think I will be needing them. Tho I will find out, Ive checked the plugs after around 100 miles, they were ok, but after around 200 miles will be the final test. Fine tuning these engines is a real Art.
I'm just holding my breath, waiting for someone to come along and tell me I did/said something stupid in this one. I'm definitely not an expert at electrical testing (home mechanics rarely are...), so please let me know if you have any additional tips, tricks, or corrections!
Where did you get the FSM from? I am probably going to need one for a 240z later this year...
www.nicoclub.com/datsun-service-manuals
Restoration For Beginners thank you 🙏
Wasn't cylinder #5 the suspect cylinder when the head came off the first time? Or maybe it was #6? It looked clean and shiny as if it wasn't experiencing combustion if I remember right? It looked like a motor someone was driving around on five cylinders.
Valve sealing...I don't know. It's a new head...isn't everything above the block replaced or otherwise new? It just seems like the chances of this happening from the top with two different heads is so low. Which leaves a ring problem, and yet the compression was very healthy. There was no oil squirted into the top of cyl #5 before that compression test done on video? I'm reaching on that one. I just don't understand it. The combination of things going on in #5 don't make sense to me. There is time between this combination of things however and you've been working diligently. My gambling money says you already fixed it.
After the recent solid compression test, I wondered if the #5 valves were just crazy-out of adjustment on both heads. I wondered if I had given you bad advice. And I'm just newbspeculating here but did #5 have more "wet" compression tests than other cyls and maybe oil collected in the combustion chamber and eventually fouled the plug?
Based on the way the plug looked at 200 miles, and if it's not resolved, you won't have to drive 200 more miles to know if there's an issue. :) It's going to be a moment of bliss if you pull that plug out and it looks healthy...!!!:D Good luck!
Haha you perfectly outlined my thoughts here as well. It just doesn't make sense. I honestly don't know if you can have a good compression reading AND have bad rings at the same time. I had the head rebuilt with new valve guides and seals, so I doubt that that's the problem here. Even if there was a problem, IT'S AT CYLINDER #5! The constantly problematic cylinder! That's too much of a coincidence.
I'm hoping that this problem was already fixed with the head, and the spark plug won't come out black again. But deep down inside, I know that it will =( Just waiting for the weather to clear up so I can take it out again.
All my speculations fell apart when I saw that compression test. The one quick piece of info. I wish I had on this video is what the plug smelled like. Granted it would probably be too weird if plug-smelling was a part of the plug-reading lore in the video but still heh! I could see the plug well enough I just wanted to reach into the video and smell it too to test what the majority of its scent was. You seemed to confirm that it's motor oil. In theory a coincidence with #5 is possible or there's something else in the works here I'm just not thinking of. I'm guessing the plugs were new when the new head went on. But if the plug smelled like gas and was carbon/gas fouled...the injectors are new...could weak ignition in #5 --> combustion/mixture issue? Or could an oil ring work well at the top of a cylinder for a compression test result, but also have some kind of issue further down on the cylinder wall where oil could pass through? I'm totally reaching here again but it makes me think! A good blue smoke test with the new plugs would be easy and I'd think worth doing right away.
It's possibly not relevant but I'd probe the #5 spark plug wire with the timing light real quick and make sure it's got steady spark through time.
+heymisterderp thats a great idea. I love it. I hace the spark plug tester, but I couldve used used my timing light to check for spark.
I'm just as confused at this point as you are. I'll take a sniff when I pull the replaced plugs out and see if I can tell if it's oil vs. fuel. I believe it's oil, but doesn't hurt to check. I'll also have to check that the injector and signal are working properly. I already checked for spark, no issues there. I'd be incredulous if it turns out to be a bad valve seal... it'd be such a coincidence. Dave seems to think that it might be a stuck oil ring. Never dealt with one before, but it's a guess that makes the most sense for now!