Your comment about measuring boat planks with holes made me chuckle because that is exactly how dugout canoe plank thickness is determined in the tradition of indigenous peoples of the Pacific North West of Canada. They carve the outside to finished shape, the drill holes and insert plugs of a specified length. Then the inside is excavated until the hit the plugs.
Thanks for the video Master Peter! It's a shame that there are no subtitles in this video. I wanted to ask you. How did you come up with this tuning method? And were you able to tap the original soundboards of the Stradivari and Guarneri instruments?With much respect! Thanks for sharing your method with us!
There was a man in Gothemburg named Gunnar Sanborn who spread theories like this. First I was very much against it but decided to try it in my way. It is only the rubbing/listening part that I caught. I am not familiar with where he brought it but what I do now is very far from what I grasped him doing in the beginning. Then I have widened the concept by asking myself why the old violins look like they do, especially with all the peculiarities they show. I have then found credible explanations and by this I have expanded "the Method".
It really depends on where you want to go. I also don´t know what instrument you are after. Violins have carved arched plates. It definitely works here.
Thanks very much to Peter for these videos. "Characterizing violin top plate using sounds generated by local taps" K Maki; a scientific paper that came out in 2022, provides some evidence this method or similar was in use by Nicolo` Amati in 1647 , also Gasparo da Salo` . Those plates still have uniform local tap tones except for the chin rest area apparently hardened by reapplied varnish, while two 19th century violins did not show this uniformity of local tap tones at all. It may be that Peter and others like him have rediscovered a useful technique.
I am taken by your insight that using the spike to pin the plate to the bench eliminates the arbitrary dampening effect of holding it manually by the sides. Clearly, this should lead to a more accurate and consistent result, in addition to the amplifying effect you mentioned in the first video. Taken together, these two points make a pretty compelling case for your interpretation of the Guarneri back plug mystery! Do you have any insights into why he didn't seem to use a similar method for the table?
No, I don´t, but maybe the table is more complex. Bassbar, f-holes and maybe also leaving the sound post area a bit thicker. It might come clearer for me or someone in the future but I have not solved that part yet.
Thank you very much, Mr. Peter! The shape of the arch of the upper and lower soundboard and the blade of the efa very clearly demonstrate the reliability of your method! P.S. It would be very good to tap the original Stradivari and Guarneri soundboards - but I understand that this is almost impossible.
Thank you for posting. I’m always open to trying new things. I have tried your method on a previous violin, I lost my way a bit but will give it another go.
I have been watching your method on tuning the plates with great interest and would like to apply the method to an F5 mandolin. Unlike the violin, the F5 is asymmetrical. Any thoughts or recommendations how the shape of the plate will affect the tuning process? Thanks for your videos.
Mr Westerlund, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience in this series of videos; I follow them with great interest. There is one aspect that is not completely clear to me, it is the pitch connection between the top and the back, I guest that it should take place at the moment when you finish the back height (as the rest of the back is tuned equally to this note), but in video 21, when you made the connection between both plates, I couldn’t find confirmation of this point. Please, can you confirm if this is correct? Thank you.
Ideally the pitch tone should be the same inside - outside - top- back. However I set the highest point of the arch by taking down the flat area until there is no rise in pitch when you pass over the middle part. By doing so the pitch becomes the same in both top and back. As I see it the outline and the material brings this to happen. See video # 82.
Mr. Westerlunds, thank you for your video. Would you be so kind as to comment on the relationship between the model of a violin (the part used for measurements) and the tuning of the plates? In one of your earlier videos you've mentioned that there is a connection between the two: the model has to be built in a way that allows for consistency of tone - later on, when tunning the plates (specifically the table). Am I understanding this correctly?
If I understand you correctly, the connection is that the outline has to be "tuned". That is there can be no "corners" or flat parts in the outline. The outline manages the arching so to say. If you have an interuption in the outline, it will affect the arching in a bad manner. (All in my view)
Thank you for your reply. So when creating the model from a book or a Strad poster, and if using metal (such as aluminum - in my case) or plastic - for the model - would I have to tune the model as well (before starting any work on the table or the back)? If so, how would you recommend I go about that? Would the same method for tuning apply? (going over the edge of the model making sure the sound is consistent?) Am I understanding you correctly in regards to the connection between a tuned model that later would help graduate better plates
Your comment about measuring boat planks with holes made me chuckle because that is exactly how dugout canoe plank thickness is determined in the tradition of indigenous peoples of the Pacific North West of Canada. They carve the outside to finished shape, the drill holes and insert plugs of a specified length. Then the inside is excavated until the hit the plugs.
Thanks for the video Master Peter! It's a shame that there are no subtitles in this video. I wanted to ask you. How did you come up with this tuning method? And were you able to tap the original soundboards of the Stradivari and Guarneri instruments?With much respect! Thanks for sharing your method with us!
There was a man in Gothemburg named Gunnar Sanborn who spread theories like this. First I was very much against it but decided to try it in my way. It is only the rubbing/listening part that I caught. I am not familiar with where he brought it but what I do now is very far from what I grasped him doing in the beginning. Then I have widened the concept by asking myself why the old violins look like they do, especially with all the peculiarities they show. I have then found credible explanations and by this I have expanded "the Method".
Do you think your scratch method would work on carved arch tops?
It really depends on where you want to go. I also don´t know what instrument you are after. Violins have carved arched plates. It definitely works here.
Thanks very much to Peter for these videos. "Characterizing violin top plate using sounds generated by local taps" K Maki; a scientific paper that came out in 2022, provides some evidence this method or similar was in use by Nicolo` Amati in 1647
, also Gasparo da Salo` . Those plates still have uniform local tap tones except for the chin rest area apparently hardened by reapplied varnish, while two 19th century violins did not show this uniformity of local tap tones at all. It may be that Peter and others like him have rediscovered a useful technique.
I am taken by your insight that using the spike to pin the plate to the bench eliminates the arbitrary dampening effect of holding it manually by the sides. Clearly, this should lead to a more accurate and consistent result, in addition to the amplifying effect you mentioned in the first video.
Taken together, these two points make a pretty compelling case for your interpretation of the Guarneri back plug mystery!
Do you have any insights into why he didn't seem to use a similar method for the table?
No, I don´t, but maybe the table is more complex. Bassbar, f-holes and maybe also leaving the sound post area a bit thicker. It might come clearer for me or someone in the future but I have not solved that part yet.
@@westerlundsviolinverkstada9892 Once again, thanks for your kind response!
Thank you very much, Mr. Peter! The shape of the arch of the upper and lower soundboard and the blade of the efa very clearly demonstrate the reliability of your method!
P.S. It would be very good to tap the original Stradivari and Guarneri soundboards - but I understand that this is almost impossible.
Thank you for posting. I’m always open to trying new things. I have tried your method on a previous violin, I lost my way a bit but will give it another go.
I have already forgotten will you use “an amplifier” to fine tune the top? (I guess no).
Thanks Peter for your insights and these fine videos. Good to see you again!
I have been watching your method on tuning the plates with great interest and would like to apply the method to an F5 mandolin. Unlike the violin, the F5 is asymmetrical. Any thoughts or recommendations how the shape of the plate will affect the tuning process? Thanks for your videos.
Sorry. It is out of my jurisdiction. Good luck though.
Mr Westerlund, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience in this series of videos; I follow them with great interest.
There is one aspect that is not completely clear to me, it is the pitch connection between the top and the back, I guest that it should take place at the moment when you finish the back height (as the rest of the back is tuned equally to this note), but in video 21, when you made the connection between both plates, I couldn’t find confirmation of this point. Please, can you confirm if this is correct? Thank you.
Ideally the pitch tone should be the same inside - outside - top- back.
However I set the highest point of the arch by taking down the flat area until there is no rise in pitch when you pass over the middle part. By doing so the pitch becomes the same in both top and back. As I see it the outline and the material brings this to happen. See video # 82.
Mr. Westerlunds, thank you for your video. Would you be so kind as to comment on the relationship between the model of a violin (the part used for measurements) and the tuning of the plates? In one of your earlier videos you've mentioned that there is a connection between the two: the model has to be built in a way that allows for consistency of tone - later on, when tunning the plates (specifically the table). Am I understanding this correctly?
If I understand you correctly, the connection is that the outline has to be "tuned". That is there can be no "corners" or flat parts in the outline. The outline manages the arching so to say. If you have an interuption in the outline, it will affect the arching in a bad manner. (All in my view)
Thank you for your reply. So when creating the model from a book or a Strad poster, and if using metal (such as aluminum - in my case) or plastic - for the model - would I have to tune the model as well (before starting any work on the table or the back)? If so, how would you recommend I go about that? Would the same method for tuning apply? (going over the edge of the model making sure the sound is consistent?) Am I understanding you correctly in regards to the connection between a tuned model that later would help graduate better plates
@@andreibirsan4541 Yes, I "tune" the edtge of the plastic mould before taking it into action.
Mr. Westerlunds, this is most informative. Thank you very much for your answer.