Polite Agnostic vs Jay Dyer | bible scribal errors + levels of certainty (ft. FDA)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- @JayDyer @esorem
A polite agnostic calls in and asks questions pertaining to doubt and certainty regarding textual errors. Fr. Dcn. Ananias chimes in on the topic.
I will be releasing a pt 2 clip from an old talk from Jay on epistemic certainty.
All credit goes to Jay Dyer & FDA.
source: • A Roman Catholic, An A...
When Jiub posts my smile expands.
Same. Idk who this is…but God bless them🤔
He's a great friend of mine@@theelement6255
Jiub has great clips
when jay talks my braincells expand.
An atheist, usually from some arbitrary reason, decides from the outset, that the Biblical account, can not possibly be true. He then sets out to confirm his conviction, by treating the evidence and the claims, with the most asinine and unreasonable degree, of skepticism and incredulity, under the false pretense, of simply wanting to satisfy his own reason. They also never contend with the system as a whole but rather attempt to dismantle it, piece by piece, intentionally forfeiting, any nuance or interpretive context, which would help demonstrate the coherency of the position.
Well said
@JDO145
There’s a gargantuan amount of evidence. There’s extent literature, archeological and historical evidence, geological evidence, there’s fulfilled prophecy. But for those of your stripe no degree of proof will ever suffice. You want recourse to your own fortitude and that means setting Christ at enmity at any cost. The implications of the truth are too much for you to bear in that they preclude aspects of your life you are not willing to change or even reevaluate. I should know. That was my perspective until I came to terms with my own frailties and iniquities. The quicker you own up to them the less anguish you stockpile for your self in this life and the next.
@JDO145
First you said the Bible, now you’re narrowing it down to Jesus. Nice goal post adjustment there, Slick. But even in that case there is a huge amount of evidence that you only discount because of the metaphysical conclusions begged (e.g., there is very little evidence of record that Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon, but you won’t dispute that insofar as it doesn’t have any direct effect on your lifestyle choices). This is why innumerable historians consider the life and teachings of Christ to be essential to any credible historical record. In that sense there are the gospels themselves, there are contemporaneous historians, there are the early letters of the Church Fathers which have never been disputed. There is the fact that so many Christians were willing to die for the faith despite the prospects of Christianities ascendancy being so remote. Religions have prophecies but none have the sort of credibly fulfilled prophecies that have shaped civilization so overwhelmingly. In any case, none of these proofs will compel those of your posture. Admitting to Christ as a historical figure would shine too much light into that sable room you call self. And Christ knew this. He said that even if someone like you saw the resurrection first hand you would not countenance. That is the nature of pride and all concomitant obstinacy. You only conceal it behind the guise of intellectual prowess and historical pedantry.
@@JDO145
I said of Caesar crossing the rubicon not his existence and reign. Nice try though. Again, I know that you lot will believe in all kinds of historical events and persons with far less veracity than the life and actions of Christ. I know that you do this because those events and persons don’t hold you to any standard but your own. The fact remains that far more credible, reliable and seminal historians than you considered Christ be a historical figure. You want the names? To speak of the gospels as lacking for credibility is arbitrary. By whose criterion? These were accounts based on the words of eyewitness. They would hold up in any court.
@@JDO145
I’m not worried about your sometimes arbitrary, sometimes ad hoc approach to what lends events and persons historicity. I’ve studied the history of antiquity and if Christ didn’t live and do then neither did a host of figures you take for granted as real. Your fear of the truth has paralyzed your intellect. But everyday is a new opportunity to take off that hideous costume you wear and allow your conscience to be wounded and healed. There is nothing contradictory in the gospels. You only wish there were. Stop restating your position and give me an example.
Would Peter walking on water but then sinking when the wind picked up be an example of varying certainty and faith? I feel like this part of Matthew is relevant to their discussion.
I love Jay, but I reckon he missed a trick here by not leaning on our Patristic tradition. The Church Fathers are clear: the demons exist and not every thought or feeling we have is necessarily our own, especially doubt... Doubt is often or mostly of demonic origin. And as mature spiritual warriors, we don’t beat ourselves up in a moment of doubt - we repent, call on Christ and spiritual back up in the form of His Holy Mother, our Holy Guardian Angel and the Holy Saints, and then we unleash a can of you know what in pursuit of the enemy.
How pious of you
@@MangyPL God bless you.
well said
anyone know any great writings regarding this? just started unseen warfare will that cover it?
@@jawokenn8766 yes, Unseen Warfare, for sure. Also, St. Nikodemos of The Holy Mountain’s Handbook of Spiritual Counsel, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov’s The Arena, St. John Climacus’ Ladder of Divine Ascent, as well as, The Philokalia. And of course, never put down the Psalter! Begin and end every day pouring over the Psalms in humility and our Heavenly Father will pour out His grace on you. God bless and Godspeed!
Great video
Would you not think that after Christ rose from the dead, he would spend a bit more time meeting with larger numbers of people before "ascending to heaven" Why count on a few outskirt apostles when he could have met the masses, and even speak with the ones who put him on the cross, which would create much more certainty about this process.
He did. The Bible says that hundreds of people saw Him after He resurrected.
@@ogloc6308 If only He came today and had a youtube channel to prove these facts. Now we must have faith in 100 people from so long ago (and the church fathers who have passed this along) If you'd come today You could have reached a whole nation Israel in 4 BC had no mass communication
@@tomsch5801 You don't know that people would believe if he came today and had a youtube channel.I would think miracles he did would prove to people the first time he came and yet some people still did not believe.
@@tomsch5801 Thought I'd reply here about your ageist argument. Should I just refer you to all my old profs in college? Political philosophy doesn't come about by age any easier than knowledge of biology, engineering, medicine, or whatever else.
I wouldn't presume to know better than God, no.
It’s not rational to not believe in what is best by comparison.
Why?
If you have a more probable and fit answer then it’s reasonable to go with that instead of something improbable and unfit, or your thinking can be characterized as faulty.
@@boltrooktwo If its better to believe one thing over another wouldnt that make it more fit to believe?
@@ImNotJoshPotter Part of rationality is to have values that are expressible so the most fit answer is the most rational.
@@boltrooktwo What values are inexpressible?
I missed the new JD Twitter drama. Apparently it wasn't recorded 🫤
I was there, you did not miss much, the whole thing lasted for 5 minutes, he got called a woman, a fraud, a liar etc etc. And no one really debated him, just ad hominems. And Dyer got angry and made a joke about a retired military guy in wheelchair so the whole thing went off the rails quick. They were all catholics btw, it was like a group therapy session for the people who consider Jay a baddie
@@tocilovac0912 oof. Is this the "Jay is a woman and Jamie is a man" theory or just standard cringeposting?
@@Stevenmulraney standard
I missed it as well
I missed it. I’m glad everyone was able to mend fences though. Humans happen. It’s NBD