Heath Ledger actually did say he had fun playing The Joker. It's recorded. Good info in this video. I disagree. Joaquin Phoenix completely lost himself in the role also.
It’s absurd people think by playing joker Heath became so depressed and miserable he killed himself. He expressed that experience being his funnest acting role. He was addicted to sleeping meds which are very addictive and very dangerous
Michael Jai White knows Vlad tricks. Crazy how he was trying to get him to say that he helped Heath Ledger define his Joker or something for a headline.
Ledger had the WORST combination going. Two opiates, two prescribed benzos for anxiety and one of the strongest benzos prescribed for sleep, _plus_ an over-the-counter sleep aid on top. Anybody who can survive that combo for even 1 night is a miracle.
@@joojoobaw Jesus Christ…as I fan, I knew he was on some things, but not that combination. You’re right man, it would’ve been a miracle to survive those.
@@nostaljah19 I agree. You can't have one without the other. Batman and Joker are the yin and yang in operating opposing sides of the law. The hero is more defined by the villain
i always just feel like he knew it was over and for some reason it might’ve came earlier. Like he wanted to finish his roles and plan his final movies but couldn’t ..
@@PR-WAY I agree but he's not Heath. It's been 16 years since he was the Joker for Dark knight and passed away. His cultural influence as the Joker supersedes Joaquin's joker from the way how people mimic Ledger's Joker "Why so serious" catchphrase, the costumes and the watch replay value for The Dark Knight compared to Phoenix's Joker
@@Darkghost-y9w I dont know man i just feel Phoenix was the realist joker i was captivated by his performance when i watched that movie it was unreal, Heath never captivated me like that it was just another bad guy in a superhero movie in my opinion
@@PR-WAY I can't be mad at that brotha. I remember when I went to go see the Dark Knight as 8 year old kid and being somewhat terrified by the pop up scenes/ sounds in the movie and hearing Heath's laughs was enough to give me nightmares and something to always remember him by. Joaquin's definitely bodied his Joker role, I remember going to see it on my 20th birthday and just feeling almost the same way you felt. I mean Phoenix was cooking big time in his scenes, but the thing is I haven't seen Joker since it came out because of the high leveled violence and it actually kind of made me depressed. I can watch Dark Knight multiple times with Ledger in it and feel charged up.
I'll make it simple: Heath Ledgers Joker was actually frightning. Out of all the Joker's he is the one that you would be the most afraid to be with all alone in a room.
What Vlad said about at the 8:20 mark, that a sign/mark of a great actor is when u dont recognise him/her while theyre doing the character. Thats true, BUT it also depends on what type of actong backround they have. Example Daniel Day Lewis, ive understood he is what they call a "method actor", I recently rewatched the movie there will be blood, great frikin film, and Daniel nails it. BUT another example, lets take Denzell, ive understood that he has a theater backround. When ur doing theatre, u cant scream "cut" I wasnt in my character yet, the show must go on. And Denzell, is Denzell in every one of his movies, but I wouldnt say he is not a good actor. Maybe in Malcolm X and one or two other roles, Denzell is not "so Denzell" but all his other parts, its Denzell, u know what youre goin to get.
I loved that you asked MJW about Heath Ledger on multiple accounts. To many actors, Heath Ledgers Joker performance is studied in class and it’s so interesting to hear other professional actors talk about their experience with him on the Dark Knight set
I love that he’s honest and he could’ve took credit for the voice and he was being 100% honest about it. Other people would’ve jumped in and said yeah I created the voice for clouds.
if anything conspiracy wise his last role in imaginarium of doctor parnassus was more up that lane. It's trippy asf with all the symbolism. Check it out
Mark Hamill is the best joker just like Kevin Conroy is the best batman. They made me believe they were the characters with just their voices now whenever I read a comic I imagine their voices.
Phoenix literally carried an entire movie as two completely different characters, Arthur Flack, who gradually transformed into The Joker Health Ledger got help from Christian Bale, another great actor. He got to play off of Batman. Younger people who didn’t know Phoenix's previous work and only know him from Joker would be shocked this was the same person. Especially since he lost so much weight to get into characters. As usual, Vlad's take is way off
Doctors don’t always catch which drugs are contraindicative with each other I’ve seen it myself that’s why I always stayed with my grandparents when they were in the hospital
Knowing how Nolan is infamous for giving almost cold and sterile directing cues, I think Ledger really loved the idea of playing the role, so he gave it everything he had and took massive creative risks, and Nolan loved it.
I may have to agree with Vlad when he was talking about an actor being able to be in character and change their character so much that you almost forget who they are. Being able to do that is something that really is God given and it's you either have it or you don't. It's kind of similar to how some comedians can imitate someone so good that it's like they morph into them. You have to have a certain level of awareness, intelligence, and understanding amongst much more.
Vlad made a good point. Heath was a complete different person when he was the joker.. phoenix was phenomenal but if you watched his other movies you could still see that same man he played 20 years ago
All good points, but, Ledger’s joker we never saw out of character, or w/o makeup…while Joaquin’s joker we saw a bunch out of character, so it’s not a fair comparison IMO. However, Ledger is the gold standard, to me. Thanks boys (and you Vlad for not interrupting per the usual;)
That's because it focused on Jokers Origin story; Even though we a have several Joker origin tales. I prefer Jack Napier from Batman the Phantasm. That being said, Heath is the best performance of Joker on screen
I do know that Jack Nicholson told Ledger to undergo some serious "decompression" after playing that role. Nicholson was the most psychotic, while also being a humorist imho.
They never would have made a joker movie if heath ledger didn’t make the character as attractive as he did. I’m absolutely sure that what heath ledger did with the joker in the dark knight trilogy is what birthed the idea of a full blown joker movie. But I’m waiting to see Joaquin phoenix go full joker, not origin story joker, but fighting Batman joker. It’s easy for phoenix to pull off a joker origin because nobody ever saw what he was like before he became Batman’s arch nemesis. But we have an idea what he’s supposed to be like after encountering Batman, and that will be the real test for phoenix.
Heath has portrayed the best “Joker” but Joaquin has portrayed the best “Jack” (Jokers real name, the actual man beneath the facepaint). The same way the best “Batman” (in the costume) is not necessarily the same as the best “Bruce Wayne.”
I think these 2 definitely did a good job, and they're both debatably the best. I feel like Jack Nicholson is underrated though. If we're talking THE BEST Joker ever though, then its Mark Hamill. And If you go back and watch BTAS, his joker definitely took some inspiration from Nicholson. You can kinda hear it in the laugh.
The Joker comparisons aren't fair because Heath Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix were playing a darker joker. Caesar Romero originated the character with a campy take on it and Jack Nicholson went in that vein. So it's an unfair comparison. On a side note, imagine if Jack Nicholson played the Joker like how he played the character in "The Shining" that could have been a game changer.
Phoenix deserved an Oscar for the movie Her. You can say that movie can be seen as if Joker had decent parents and was raised right. You get lost in the film by how well it was written and acted out.
I mean truth is the dark Depression and pain he felt wasn’t because of a movie or a role It was because of his love And his family Being in love is one hell of a long Loosing love is another. The heart really is one of the most vital organs to us
Do still kinda see Joaquin a bit in Joker whereas I don't see Heather in Dark Knight. Also that's true that Joaquin had an entire movie to himself compared to the rest
Heath Ledger for me was the best Joker, I gotta agree with Vlad on this one. When you watch that movie and see the joker, you don't think hey that's Heath Ledger, no you see The Joker. When I feel like watching a Batman movie, I watch the dark Knight because the joker is in it lol, who cares about 1 or 3 with bane lol.
Yeh because hes dressed up as joker the whole time thats why you dont see Heath lol take the face paint off on some of those seens an your see Heath lol.
In my opinuon I have to go Heath Ledger because that was the first Joker where I was actually terrified and completely forgot it wasnt real life . Of course ive never seen the joaquin phoenix Joker movie tho
Jack's Joker is like asking the Joker to play Jack Nicholson, Heath became a completely different person. Joaquin is like a guy with issues pretending to be Joker.
When you have ailments that need treated with pills, its so easy to accidentally overdose. When I was sick with covid, I took 2 DayQuil gel caps, and 2 Tylenol during the day, then 2 NyeQuil gel caps of a night, 2 Benadryl, and another 2 Tylenol. I didn't know that the DayQuil/NyeQuil has the same properties/chemicals as Tylenol, and Benadryl. I almost died.
I didn’t think there was any debate about Heath Ledger being the best Joker. I can barely remember who actually played the Joker as if the muhfucka was a real person
When I was in high school I took a pill for my bad Acne & I mixed it with another medication at the same time. And next thing I remember I woke up on the bathroom floor in a puddle of throw up. I got super lucky. I never mix any medication years & years later. Wish I could remember what I took.
Heath said in an inteview that he was nightmares about the joker. Nobody knows what he was going thru. Some people only "act" happy. That what I saw in South Korea. They just save face and try to mean u think they're happy
I pray that people start looking at things for what they are... I really believe Michael believes what he's saying, which shows there's 2 perspectives on a situation... But I GUARANTEE 1 day if you don't make that right decision, you'll regret it for eternity...
No disrespect to all the other jokers, they did good but heath ledger is number one.
No it’s Jack
idk Phoenix did his thing fr
@@pisees.18 Lol
In live action yes 💯 but if you include the other media Mark Hamil is up there too
@@coreyjohnston9195 most definitely! I agree
Dressing up as the Joker on Halloween brought on Diddy's demise.
2Bit from power almost whipped his ass too 😂
Um no being a predator was 😂
😅😅😅
That is not what brought on his demise. Lol
He was spraying baby oil from his flower 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣☠️
Respect MJW always defending heath shutting down these rumors
Almost forgot he was in the movie and would know best. Wish he had a bigger role, because he slayed it in the limited amount of time he had on scene.
Jack Nicholson didn’t have to act to be the Joker. He just had to be himself and played him perfectly.
Who cares?
How did he play the joker perfectly when heath ledger did a better job? Make it make sense
Jack always plays himself
I love Jack but he was average as joker playing yaself means your nit being the character the only reasons 90s cartoon joker exist is cuz of jack
Jack's Number 1
Heath Ledger actually did say he had fun playing The Joker. It's recorded. Good info in this video. I disagree. Joaquin Phoenix completely lost himself in the role also.
Speaking of forgetting who am actor is when u see them in a role, Collin Ferrell as Penguin.. that's a new, underrated bar
What killed Heath also killed Michael Jackson and Bruce Lee
Is it also the same thing that killed kobain??
This is true😮
Heath is the best Joker, Michelle Pfeiffer is the best Catwoman, The Dark Knight is the best Batman movie.
Heath Ledger the best Joker, it’s no competition.
It’s absurd people think by playing joker Heath became so depressed and miserable he killed himself. He expressed that experience being his funnest acting role. He was addicted to sleeping meds which are very addictive and very dangerous
Michael Jai White knows Vlad tricks. Crazy how he was trying to get him to say that he helped Heath Ledger define his Joker or something for a headline.
Y'all gotta stop that he not trying to trap every black person bruh.
@@taihirglover8469 who's y'all? Who's saying he's trying to trap black people in my comment
scary how many people drink and then take sleep medication.
Right 😳
I use to drink on xannys
Ledger had the WORST combination going. Two opiates, two prescribed benzos for anxiety and one of the strongest benzos prescribed for sleep, _plus_ an over-the-counter sleep aid on top. Anybody who can survive that combo for even 1 night is a miracle.
@@joojoobaw you never lied it’s crazy man
@@joojoobaw Jesus Christ…as I fan, I knew he was on some things, but not that combination. You’re right man, it would’ve been a miracle to survive those.
“ENOUGH, FROM THE CLOWN”
😅😅
Ah ta ta ta ta let's not blow this out of proportion.
@@josem.castorena4853I'm gonna make this pencil disappear 🍑
It's slightly an unfair comparison because Heath's Joker got to act opposite Batman, whereas Joaqin's was basically solo.
@@nostaljah19 I agree. You can't have one without the other. Batman and Joker are the yin and yang in operating opposing sides of the law. The hero is more defined by the villain
What the hell was that at 8:04?? 😂😂
😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Vlad got acid reflux
Nah fr lol
Exactly wtf 😂
Vlad kweifing over there
I’m not gonna lie this debating is tough but once Heath came it brought a more dark side of the joker in my opinion
i always just feel like he knew it was over and for some reason it might’ve came earlier.
Like he wanted to finish his roles and plan his final movies but couldn’t ..
Heath Ledger 's Joker is on another whole galaxy and realm by itself. Nobody can touch him, not even Joaquin's but he's up there a bit.
Phoenix was next level
@@PR-WAY I agree but he's not Heath. It's been 16 years since he was the Joker for Dark knight and passed away. His cultural influence as the Joker supersedes Joaquin's joker from the way how people mimic Ledger's Joker "Why so serious" catchphrase, the costumes and the watch replay value for The Dark Knight compared to Phoenix's Joker
@@Darkghost-y9w I dont know man i just feel Phoenix was the realist joker i was captivated by his performance when i watched that movie it was unreal, Heath never captivated me like that it was just another bad guy in a superhero movie in my opinion
@@Darkghost-y9w an Heaths death has alot to do with his influence as the Joker
@@PR-WAY I can't be mad at that brotha. I remember when I went to go see the Dark Knight as 8 year old kid and being somewhat terrified by the pop up scenes/ sounds in the movie and hearing Heath's laughs was enough to give me nightmares and something to always remember him by. Joaquin's definitely bodied his Joker role, I remember going to see it on my 20th birthday and just feeling almost the same way you felt. I mean Phoenix was cooking big time in his scenes, but the thing is I haven't seen Joker since it came out because of the high leveled violence and it actually kind of made me depressed. I can watch Dark Knight multiple times with Ledger in it and feel charged up.
please bring Michael Jai White back
Michael Jai White is the same person who said Tupac playing Bishop led to his demise. How is it different?
I'll make it simple: Heath Ledgers Joker was actually frightning. Out of all the Joker's he is the one that you would be the most afraid to be with all alone in a room.
Love MJW interviews. Underrated living legend 🤲🏽
MJW always keeps it real, best consistent guest on the channel
Nah Joaquin built on what Heath did with the Joker. You cant be 2nd and 1st im sorry
They are both 2nd to Mark
😂 joaquin's joker is not the way the joker is supposed to be! Good movie! But not the joker
@@VahnLeifoh Exactly! NOTHING like the comics. People just say sh!t without really thinking it through.
Heath Ledger is the best Joker hands down no argument here RIP
That's a snapple fact
Nah his character as joker was the typical bad guy in a superhero movie in my opinion
@@lamart3857 Snapple opinion
An opinion is an opinion. No matter how many times you say orherwise
Res
cool dude but cant believe he put phoenix over ledger...
I believe the role in brokeback mountain broke his spirit more than playing the damn joker tbh
What Vlad said about at the 8:20 mark, that a sign/mark of a great actor is when u dont recognise him/her while theyre doing the character.
Thats true, BUT it also depends on what type of actong backround they have. Example Daniel Day Lewis, ive understood he is what they call a "method actor", I recently rewatched the movie there will be blood, great frikin film, and Daniel nails it. BUT another example, lets take Denzell, ive understood that he has a theater backround. When ur doing theatre, u cant scream "cut" I wasnt in my character yet, the show must go on. And Denzell, is Denzell in every one of his movies, but I wouldnt say he is not a good actor. Maybe in Malcolm X and one or two other roles, Denzell is not "so Denzell" but all his other parts, its Denzell, u know what youre goin to get.
Great content Jai and Vlad. I wish ya'll could come to South Africa!
I agree. Joaquin did an insane job. I love Heath too tho.
I loved that you asked MJW about Heath Ledger on multiple accounts. To many actors, Heath Ledgers Joker performance is studied in class and it’s so interesting to hear other professional actors talk about their experience with him on the Dark Knight set
Watch the full interview now as a VladTV TH-cam Member - th-cam.com/users/vladtvjoin
Batman 89 Nicholson
I love that he’s honest and he could’ve took credit for the voice and he was being 100% honest about it. Other people would’ve jumped in and said yeah I created the voice for clouds.
if anything conspiracy wise his last role in imaginarium of doctor parnassus was more up that lane. It's trippy asf with all the symbolism. Check it out
I saw the checkerboard pattern on the cover and immediately realized
That was a good movie
lol but most likely he was just on a bad combination of pharmaceuticals and lethal overdoses happen
True
@@gustavoalmanza2673yep. Masonic symbolism.
Mark Hamill is the best joker just like Kevin Conroy is the best batman. They made me believe they were the characters with just their voices now whenever I read a comic I imagine their voices.
What vlad said at the end was 💯 on point..
Phoenix literally carried an entire movie as two completely different characters, Arthur Flack, who gradually transformed into The Joker
Health Ledger got help from Christian Bale, another great actor. He got to play off of Batman.
Younger people who didn’t know Phoenix's previous work and only know him from Joker would be shocked this was the same person. Especially since he lost so much weight to get into characters. As usual, Vlad's take is way off
I never cared for the joaquin phoenix movie
Amazing debate.
#1 Joker is Mark Hamil who played Joker in the Batman animated series and the Batman Arkham games
Heath 🐐
Thats just a voice actor, nobody sees his face
Doctors don’t always catch which drugs are contraindicative with each other I’ve seen it myself that’s why I always stayed with my grandparents when they were in the hospital
Knowing how Nolan is infamous for giving almost cold and sterile directing cues, I think Ledger really loved the idea of playing the role, so he gave it everything he had and took massive creative risks, and Nolan loved it.
I may have to agree with Vlad when he was talking about an actor being able to be in character and change their character so much that you almost forget who they are. Being able to do that is something that really is God given and it's you either have it or you don't. It's kind of similar to how some comedians can imitate someone so good that it's like they morph into them. You have to have a certain level of awareness, intelligence, and understanding amongst much more.
Vlad made a good point. Heath was a complete different person when he was the joker.. phoenix was phenomenal but if you watched his other movies you could still see that same man he played 20 years ago
All good points, but, Ledger’s joker we never saw out of character, or w/o makeup…while Joaquin’s joker we saw a bunch out of character, so it’s not a fair comparison IMO. However, Ledger is the gold standard, to me. Thanks boys (and you Vlad for not interrupting per the usual;)
That's because it focused on Jokers Origin story; Even though we a have several Joker origin tales. I prefer Jack Napier from Batman the Phantasm. That being said, Heath is the best performance of Joker on screen
I do know that Jack Nicholson told Ledger to undergo some serious "decompression" after playing that role. Nicholson was the most psychotic, while also being a humorist imho.
3:33 health ledger did teen movies😮 to dark night
Nobody:
Vlad: “Well, uh…”
MJW - American National Treasure. Great interview 👍🏾
After 8:04 he’s like “aight ima head out”
"Enough from the clown" 🤡 is so iconic
mark Hamill 🎉should be on the list, too, Vlad
You actually have 2 ways of looking at it. The best character portrayal is Phoenix. The best character portrayal as part of the Batman saga is Ledger.
Hey Vlad, you left out Mark Hamill's voice over for The Joker in the Batman The Animated Series
He's number two on my list
They never would have made a joker movie if heath ledger didn’t make the character as attractive as he did. I’m absolutely sure that what heath ledger did with the joker in the dark knight trilogy is what birthed the idea of a full blown joker movie. But I’m waiting to see Joaquin phoenix go full joker, not origin story joker, but fighting Batman joker. It’s easy for phoenix to pull off a joker origin because nobody ever saw what he was like before he became Batman’s arch nemesis. But we have an idea what he’s supposed to be like after encountering Batman, and that will be the real test for phoenix.
Facts
You know Phoenix will body that movie to
@@PR-WAY update: word on the street is joker 2 is horrible
@@301BigMeezy daymn really ohwell
7:38 he’s right never really thought of it like that
Heath>Joaquin
Heath has portrayed the best “Joker” but Joaquin has portrayed the best “Jack” (Jokers real name, the actual man beneath the facepaint). The same way the best “Batman” (in the costume) is not necessarily the same as the best “Bruce Wayne.”
"Magic Tricks" Nuff said
I think these 2 definitely did a good job, and they're both debatably the best. I feel like Jack Nicholson is underrated though. If we're talking THE BEST Joker ever though, then its Mark Hamill. And If you go back and watch BTAS, his joker definitely took some inspiration from Nicholson. You can kinda hear it in the laugh.
Actors sign up for the role & are ready for anything while act for movies Etc
The effects of more than one drug is called concommitant effect
I Believe So
The role didn't seem that serious. I think they just used it for promo.
The Joker comparisons aren't fair because Heath Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix were playing a darker joker. Caesar Romero originated the character with a campy take on it and Jack Nicholson went in that vein. So it's an unfair comparison. On a side note, imagine if Jack Nicholson played the Joker like how he played the character in "The Shining" that could have been a game changer.
Phoenix deserved an Oscar for the movie Her. You can say that movie can be seen as if Joker had decent parents and was raised right. You get lost in the film by how well it was written and acted out.
I mean truth is the dark
Depression and pain he felt wasn’t because of a movie or a role
It was because of his love
And his family
Being in love is one hell of a long
Loosing love is another.
The heart really is one of the most vital organs to us
Do still kinda see Joaquin a bit in Joker whereas I don't see Heather in Dark Knight. Also that's true that Joaquin had an entire movie to himself compared to the rest
Heath is way better than Joaquim phoneix.
Heath Ledger for me was the best Joker, I gotta agree with Vlad on this one. When you watch that movie and see the joker, you don't think hey that's Heath Ledger, no you see The Joker. When I feel like watching a Batman movie, I watch the dark Knight because the joker is in it lol, who cares about 1 or 3 with bane lol.
Yeh because hes dressed up as joker the whole time thats why you dont see Heath lol take the face paint off on some of those seens an your see Heath lol.
I still
Say jack
Nicholson was the most comic book accurate joker.
Heath ledger and Joaquin phoenix. Both undeniably phenomenal
🔥🔥🔥 segment
In my opinuon I have to go Heath Ledger because that was the first Joker where I was actually terrified and completely forgot it wasnt real life
. Of course ive never seen the joaquin phoenix Joker movie tho
just stay away from drugs kids.
Jack's Joker is like asking the Joker to play Jack Nicholson, Heath became a completely different person. Joaquin is like a guy with issues pretending to be Joker.
People think a movie comes out right after its made sometimes a movie is made a year or 2 before its released
Heath the best JOKER ever !!
2 Jokers won Oscars. 😂
Heath is #1, easily! That version scared me
When you have ailments that need treated with pills, its so easy to accidentally overdose.
When I was sick with covid, I took 2 DayQuil gel caps, and 2 Tylenol during the day, then 2 NyeQuil gel caps of a night, 2 Benadryl, and another 2 Tylenol.
I didn't know that the DayQuil/NyeQuil has the same properties/chemicals as Tylenol, and Benadryl. I almost died.
Heath ledger by far the best joker
I didn’t think there was any debate about Heath Ledger being the best Joker. I can barely remember who actually played the Joker as if the muhfucka was a real person
He had a costume on, that helped a lot. Joaquin nailed it without makeup
@@DenbihWell they’re not actually playing the same character so saying he nailed it without the makeup is moot.
Michael,” I don’t take nothing” … opening Jai’s cabinet: trt, prevworkouts, fatburners, creatine, protein, multivitamins, etc 😂😂😂
I haven't seen a Batman movie since Jack Nickleson
We did this already
I can imagine that it’s very easy to be influenced by the character your playing
Joker 2 with lady Gaga is going to be the biggest flipper this year! Ijs
Joaquin felt like he was acting to me. Heath disappeared and seemed as if there was trully nothing left of him.
Joaquin was the best joker..period!
in my OPINION, i like Joaquin Phoenix. Also hard to tell if most people are saying Heath just because he is dead.
When I was in high school I took a pill for my bad Acne & I mixed it with another medication at the same time.
And next thing I remember I woke up on the bathroom floor in a puddle of throw up. I got super lucky. I never mix any medication years & years later.
Wish I could remember what I took.
Heath said in an inteview that he was nightmares about the joker. Nobody knows what he was going thru. Some people only "act" happy. That what I saw in South Korea. They just save face and try to mean u think they're happy
The joker from the joker movie isn't even the joker!
Come to think of it, 2pac was a great actor, he nailed every character he played
Cant wait for Joker 2 though. Watching opening weekend!
Diddy could've been the next great Joker. And yes, I'm being very serious.
I pray that people start looking at things for what they are... I really believe Michael believes what he's saying, which shows there's 2 perspectives on a situation... But I GUARANTEE 1 day if you don't make that right decision, you'll regret it for eternity...
Nah Jack Nicholas will always be the #1 joker than joaquin phoenix
7:49 that wasnt murder that was self defense Vlad.
Heath ledger is absolutely number 1
How do we know about spirits what they can or can not do?