Hi Tom. Started my trade ( Fitting/turning Diesel Fitter) 35 yrs ago. Changed jobs regretfully near 30 yrs ago. Not on tools but always had a well equipped garage. Bought a 930mm bed lathe a few yrs ago and was frustrated coz I forgot so much. Your videos have been an amazing help and inspiration on so many tips that only a person of your experience has. The way you put it across is also spot on even for an oldie like me. Ground my first 1/2" HSS tool in 30yrs and cut beautifully. Bit of a rant but vey grateful and appreciative of your help. Kevin
Great video - worth rewatching every year or so... My late Dad (a machinist of note) had a saying... "Knowin' where yer goin' is wurf 'arf the distance run / knowin' when ta stop is the best rule in the shop". That said, he would have me paint up the bit with marking blue and scribe the angles on it using his machinist's protractor. I cannot but recommend this practice to a beginner. Read the poem above. This was at the tender age (mine) of 11, the year before starting high school, reason being Dad's growling "I knows that shop teacher. You gotta learn it proper and he doesn't know from nuffin' !" (He spoke like that to irritate Mom, an English teacher at the same high school I was going to) 1965 was a long time ago... RIP Mom 'n Dad...
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I thought about making one for the facing tool, but there was so little difference , I decided not to. Really the only difference is that there is no side cutting edge angle on the facing tool. The 30º cut to clear the center is optional. Tom
Thanks Tom! Im a newbie to hobby machining, I just discovered HSS and cutting tool grinding. Before I thought carbide was the way to go, now I like the HSS better. Can you do a video about when to use HSS vs carbide?
I wouldn't recommend it. A belt won't give you as sharp an edge as a hard wheel. Besides, I've had parts grab a belt when angling them up, like you would when grinding a lathe tool. Though I don't normally recommend them for tools, you can get a reasonable bench grinder at Harbor Fright for about $40. Thanks for watching. Tom
I wish I had your experience to grind without a lot of difficulty. You make it look easy. Only thing that bothered me was you loose shirt tail around the grinder. I've seen a shirttail sucked into the grinder when I worked in a foundry.
I have a 12x36 grizzly, the guy that had it before used inserts a lot but he knew a lot. I'm just thinking I could spend all freaking week trying to make a cutting bit just right lol. Guess we'll see. I have an old home made lathe that came with a crap load of tooling still haven't gone thru it yet. I think the 2 large 8' long channel irons are going to end up as a home made break.
Thanks Tom, I just finished putting together a 10 inch atlas lathe I found in a junk yard! I had to buy a few parts from eBay but finally got it running. I was going to order some carbide inserts but i think I'm just going to learn how to sharpen this HSS, this video is a good start.
Interesting video. Thanks for posting it. I've never tried omitting the back rack on my cutters, but I'm going to grind up a couple using your suggestion and see how I like them. A question for you: I work mostly in steel, aluminum, and stainless. Do you think it's worthwhile grinding up cutters for each particular material?
+Alistair Spence Aluminum needs more clearance to cut freely and steel needs less to draw heat away from the cutting edge. You can use the same tool to cut both, but it will cut better if ground to suit the material you are machining. Tom
That makes sense. Do you know of a reference that gives good numbers for HSS cutter geometry, for machining different materials. Seems like I can find plenty for carbide, but the numbers for HSS cutter geometry is less defined. Thanks for any help with this.
Yep, those are exactly the numbers I was looking for. Nice! I see that you have the the geometry numbers for a fly cutter also. Very handy, Thanks again!
+bmanooo Thanks. The trick is to not grind the cutting edge below the top face of the tool. That way when the tool needs resharpening, you just need to touch up the side and end faces and you get a LOT more life out of the tool bit. Once you establish the side rake angle, you should never touch it until the cutting edge gets too short to be useful. Then you just need to lengthen it to bring the tool back to its original geometry. Tom
+Toms Techniques Thank you for your fast response and good quality videos! I just found your chanel and learned more in 30 minutes then 5 days in the shop. Our machining teacher sucks. :/ Keep up the good videos!
If anyone has time to answer.......can't you just use carbide inserts to cut threads if money isn't an issue? Not that I don't want to learn this it's just something im wondering.
60, and just got my 1st small mill, and through a very strange set of circumstances, 3 lathes (2 of them free!). Vids like this are very helpful, and having a brother in law that’s been in the machine shop business for his entire working life doesn’t hurt either! Ha! Thanks Tom!
Thanks, I love getting feedback like this so I know my message is getting through. As I said in the video, the best way to learn is by practicing on mild steel bar. When you can grind one that looks good, switch to HSS and put it to use. Hand grinding does take a lot of practice to develop the required hand/eye coordination so stick with it and practice practice practice. Tom
This is a 5 star tuition video. Great focus on understanding why the faces are shaped as they are and a clear practical demonstration with top tips on using sparks to follow progress. I did some turning as a lad but never properly understood why the tool is shaped as it is. Now I do. Many thanks, Tom.
You should also use a high feed rate so the chips carry the heat away. That's one reason why carbide is not necessarily a good choice for the light machines used in a home shop. Most don't have the power or rigidity to take advantage of it. Tom
HSS is definitely more appropriate for the type of work the hobby machinist does and the type of machinery he uses. Very few hobby machines have the horsepower to take advantage of carbide tooling. Carbide is also much more expensive and less versatile than HSS. I will eventually do a video on HSS vs. carbide once I figure out the best approach. Thanks, Tom
I wish i had a thousand upvotes to give you. Theres not a lot of us that are interested, but those of us that are and found your video came away satisfied. I wish i had a thousand upvotes.. .
Tom...is there a difference between a HSS tool bit and a HSS drill, this question is in reference when grinding and the change of color due to heat, always thought it was bad for drill bits?
Hi Tom Last night I watched a video showing how top grind a lathe tool bit made by a watchmaker, after watching the video I decided to give it a try. Well I put a shaft in the 10 inch clausing lathe, put the ground tool in the aloris style tool holder, I think something people over look is the old rocker style tool holder holds the tool bit at a different angle than the aloris style. I fired up the lathe to see how it cut, I started taking about .050 a side, hum not to bad. I tried it at .070 and it seemed to handle it fine. I went to .100 per side .200 over all and I could not believe that little lathe could remove that much metal in a single pass. The shaft was from an old electric motor I had salvaged, I am not sure what type of metal it was but it started out about 1.500 in dia. If you care to have a look at the video you will find it here th-cam.com/video/2R0l6I1yrrk/w-d-xo.html Don't be fooled by the introduction, at first I thought it was a joke, but I was surprised by how well it worked. Cheers John F
Tom you beaut, that is some skill, same as Clarence over 50 n just got lathe n mill, HSS arrived today , will defo try on some square stock from old door furniture that should be easy enough to grind. Keep up the great work TFS "thanks for sharing" all the best G :)
You can use a carbide insert for threading, but it's much more expensive, less versatile and more difficult to use for the hobby machinist on the light machinery they use. If I were running a production part on a commercial lathe, I would use carbide, but for one off parts like 99% of hobby machinists make, HSS is a much better alternative. Tom
altogether a good vid tho I didn't like how you kept flipping the wood model around as it was hard to visualize how it would be oriented in the holder and meeting the material to be cut.
Yup, 60grit. 80 grit would produce a better finish, but it would also take longer to grind the tool. I like to use a coarse wheel to grind the tool and then stone the edges for a good finish. Tom
What grinding wheels do you use on HSS toolbits? The youtube videos on this subject always avoid talking about the very confusing world of grinding wheels, where there are a dizzying number of variables to consider.
Chuck, As long as they made of high speed steel and not carbon steel, drills or tool bits will maintain their hardness up to around 1000ºF. Some grades such as M42 even go higher. Tom
Hi Tom, Really great videos! Please keep up the great work. I instruct shop at the local college and was wondering about your choice of a 90 degree angle between your side cutting edge and the front cutting angle. At the college we always make the students produce an 80 degree maximum angle at the same location. This gives up a bit of strength but it does allow the tool bit to now turn diameters and also face off the shoulder all in one setup. I like to hear your thoughts… Thanks John
Thanks. I like to use a 90º for tools intended for turning only because they dissipate heat better than a more acute angle, which equates to longer tool life. If I need to turn to a shoulder, I'll either decrease the side cutting edge angle or increase the end cutting edge angle to end up with a 75º-80º included angle on the point. Reference materials for both the turning and facing tools can be found on my website, tomstechniques.com. Tom
High speed steel is great for the home gamer. I do a lot of brass and aluminum and it works terrific. No need to spend a months pay on carbide. I can save that money for spoiling my pugs and my guinea pigs.
As a home hobby machinist trying to learn and teach myself so I can someday qualify for a manual machinist position I have to say; Tom, your videos are the best. I have watched thousands of hours of content from all of the big name channels out there and while I have learned from each of them, I always come back to yours. The way you break things down in to easy to understand ways and how you film every step of the process and explain what you're doing and why. So many other channels skip over things they feel aren't necessary, and I don't like that. From your how-to videos to your project playlists I love all of it. I've watched this video several times but I just came back to it again in an attempt to finally teach myself to grind HSS. And thanks to this video I made a successful tool! And it works so much better on my Chinese mini lathe than the carbide inserts I've been using. I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you, I hope you're doing well and I hope we can see some new content from you in the future, it's been a long time since we had an awesome new project to follow along with.
It's always good to hear when the videos have benefitted someone. I had planned on making more videos by now, two years into retirement, but life threw me a hell of a curve ball and took my 28 year old son. I would like to get back to it at some point, but it's probably going to be a while before I am able. Thanks, Tom
It is thanks to generous people like you that I have learned all I know about turning, what has become my hobby for some years now. So I really appreciate your dedicate and invaluable work and detailed explanations! Now I mostly use carbide insert tools, but you always need to grind a special tool for some difficult job or intrincate part. Now I know that you must dominate both ways of cutting to cover all your needs. It's like using transistors without having heard thrugh a tube amplifier. You might never know what you are missing... So thanks for keeping an art alive.
The cutting speed for carbide is generally 4-5 times that of HSS, around 400 sfpm for 1045. Using the formula 4 X CS / DIA (see my video on cutting speed and RPM), that works out to about 1600 RPM. The chips should be a deep blue. If they start turning light colored, slow down the spindle or use coolant. Tom
My main grinder is an 8" but I do have a 6" as well. Is it easier to use the 6" to put in the side clearances? Less need to hold the tool at a greater angle than on the 8"?
Tehnically a 6" grinder will generate slightly more clearance at the cutting edge, due to the sweep of the wheel, but I doubt you would notice the difference.
Thanks Tom, very informative video and not filled with um's, aws, and you knows!! I had a different impression of what a facing tool did and you set me straight. I use M2 and pink grinding wheels 60 grit. Also have a cheap Chinese diamond wheel but never really understood the angle nomenclature till now. thanks again and don't fret the wise asses who are jealous of your video accomplishment.
Hi Tom. Good stuff as always. I wonder if a companion video on stoning the tool to completion might be nice? Sharing your tool choices and techniques for that, as well as to why it is benficial might put a perfect finish on the subject.
+jawsmod A six inch is fine for sharpening drills and tool bits, but an eight inch is more useful for larger things such as lawn mower blades, and the wheels last longer.. Tom
I am 55 and have raced dirt cars for 33 years. just got a small lathe. Great video and the way you teach how to do the grinding is easy for me to understand. I have a question. What is the grinding wheels made of and where is a good place to buy them? Again thanks! You are still helping people like me 8 years late . God Bless
Look for an aluminum oxide wheel, 60 or 80 grit (or both). Northern Tool carries Norton products, which are excellent, but any industrial supply will have bench/pedestal grinder wheels.
@@TomsTechniques Thank you for the information. I also want to tank thank you for the .pdf files that you have on your site. I have downloaded them and will laminate them to keep in shop. Again thanks!
just getting into machining as a sideline to my hydraulic mechanic day job, thanks for this excellent demo on tool bit geometry, learned a great deal. cheers for your time and effort making this. a new subscriber here 😊
Tom, I just bought my first lathe. I'm about to grind a couple tools. For good measure, I bought a couple 1/4" bits, a couple 5/16" bits, and a couple 3/8" bits. Can you give a rule of thumb for which size I should use when? Or does it even really matter on a lightweight hobbyist machine? Maybe a 1/4" would be all I can take advantage of on my machine. FYI, my lathe is a Grizzly G0752. Thanks, Jay
Tool size is mostly driven by part size. Small parts/small tools, big parts/big tools. It can also be driven by machine size. For instance, it may be difficult to hold a large tool in a small lathe and get the top of the tool on the center of the work. Tom
An excellent video. If I might make one suggestion, I would take a Sharpie pen and mark the top face of the tool before grinding. If you're new to this activity, it is quite easy to confuse which face you're working on - especially if you're grinding tools for working on brass bar where you don't actually need to grind away any of the top surface.
Thank you Tom! Love to see the lathe that giant bit came from😁 Just picked up an old Unimat to build a roller skate wheel regroover, for my wife and her skate friends😎
Hi Tom. I just watched this one again and it is still very good. I am sure many will enjoy the benefits of your informative, well organized and personable presentations long into the future. I have for sure. I think off and on about that nice knurling tool you made. I know you are busy and it takes a lot of time to make a video. However, I am looking at this video having received 16,471 views and would like to point out how many have shared in your knowledge. Even what you have out now is enough for two teachers and you must not take it that I have unfulfilled expectations. I am very happy with what you have let us learn from you. Hope you are well and happy. Best regards, jim
Thanks Jim. I've been enjoying the summer and have been spending zero time in the shop. The weather will go to hell soon enough and I'll be back in the shop looking for something to do, so hang in there. A tutorial on that knurling tool will be pretty high on the list of topics. Tom
After studying all your videos I must say that today I had success on my lathe,my very first day turning. Also I freehand ground all my new 1/2x1/2 hss tool stock in 30 minutes,I actually felt 100% confident doing it all because of you ! Thank you so much,your videos are just awesome and get right to it and that's where I learn the best .
Thanks for posting this video. This is always my go to video when I want to grind a new bit. My tool grinding also improved since I started supporting the tool bit in my hand instead of supporting it on the tool rest. I had stuff dug out of my eye as a teen and agree that it wasn't fun. I still get asked what happened whenever and optometrist looks into my eyes. Chris
+shadowdog500 Thanks Chris. The free hand technique definitely gives you more control over the grind. It's good to hear that you able to see the vids. Eye accidents are definitely not fun. Tom
Hey Tom, thanks for the information, you talk about stoning your tools can you elaborate more on that ? Been trying to look up the stone technique but cant find anything..
Basically just give the various faces that you've ground a few strokes on a fine stone to polish up the cutting edge. I normally do the top face first, then the sides, then the radius if there is one. Cut in a downward direction, just like they were ground. Since the faces will be curved from the wheel, the stoning action will concentrate on the cutting edge itself. Tom
I would, but it would be quite repetitive. The same principles apply to any type of tool, especially a boring tool. The only difference for a grooving tool is that the clearance angles would be less.
Great video!! Could you add time stamping to your videos to make it easier to reference? e.g. if you're switching from working on a turning tool to a facing tool etc.
Finally got the gumption up to try this. My first tool bit in a long time. Came out nice. Thanks for the blow by blow. Ditto klayzor. When are you coming back online?
+stxrynn That's good to hear. The only way to learn a new skill is to practice it until you get it right. I'm an avid outdoorsman, so when summer rolls around, you'll find me fishing, hiking, shooting or dirt biking, but you'll rarely find me in the shop. When the weather starts going to hell, I'll be back. Tom
Thanks Tom, just recently got a Lathe and my HSS is arriving Tuesday. Nicely explained & didnt over-complicate things. I appreciate ya Ps: I like the 4 x 4 tool bit, would like to see the grinder that was done on! :)
Very informative video. The wooden model with the various colored surfaces makes perfectly clear what you show in the grinding sequence. Excellent! I would like to see a wooden model for the facing tool, too. Thank you very much for your effort.
You want to keep your grinding lines perpendicular, not parallel to the 90° face. And you can’t use the fence regardless, otherwise you won’t have your clearance angles and rake. You hold the bottom edge of that tool on the fence and end up biting the wheel wheel with the tip, you’ll regret that decision.
By "fence", I assume you mean tool rest? If so, I only use it to rest my hand on, never the tool. If you are seeing something different in the video, perhaps you need to watch it again. And suggesting the grinding lines should be oriented in a certain direction sounds pretty nit-picky to me. I normally stone the edge anyway, so any grinding lines go away.
Thanks, but Tony already taught me this. I mean I don't own a lathe or any other machining tools. Never expect to use a lathe. I have, however, watched ToT teach me how for hours and hours and hours.
At 10.10, I would have put the "angle tool" on the bench. I think controlling the HSS bar is easier without having to carry other stuff at the same time. Multi-tasking isn't for everyone - LOL, and they shouldn't be tempted to do like You...:)
Side rake, along with the side cutting edge angle helps guide the chip away from the work and makes the cutting edge more acute which makes the tool cut easier. Tom
we are using a rectangular stock for turning tool before grinding . so if we decrease the angles on both the end and side cutting edges , how the included angle become 90 degree for turning ? plus the side cutting edge for roughing is zero not for facing. is that so ? thanks
You are confusing the side and end cutting edge angles with clearance angles. Go to my website, tomstechniques.com, and check out the reference section for diagrams.
You could make a fortune selling these tools. I for one would buy several facing and turning tools. My expertise in tool grinding is lacking. I took your advice and bought some stock metal to practice on, but ...well you know. I'm using a 7x12 mini lathe and it is a challenge. This is all new to me and I just can't get enough. Thanks Tom for you skill, patience and generosity in making these videos. I printed out the right hand facing tool on your site and will give that a try tomorrow. I have a variable speed 8 inch grinder. What speed should I be using. Where can I buy a facing tool all ready ground. I buy most of my stuff from Little machine shop. Ken....the old guy
Kenneth, I think McMaster Carr sells pre-ground tools but they are quite pricey. You should really take the time to learn how to do it yourself because tool grinding is a basic skill that every machinist should know. If you can't get it down with all of the info I've provided then I guess I haven't done a very good job. Stick with it and practice as much as you can. It will come. Tom
hi ton found your videos all can say is thank you they are a great help just one question how do I find your Web site you and everyone has been talking about what do I type in thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge
I’m 99% certain I’m grinding my HSS tool exactly like this and I still don’t get a great finish. Still have very faint tooling lines that I can slightly feel with a fingernail. Maybe my china HSS tool isn’t really HSS??
Remember, you are cutting helical grooves in the surface, so there will always be tooling lines. You can make them less noticable by using a slower feed rate or a larger radius on the point of the tool, but they will never completely go away.
Hi Tom my friend and machining mentor has yelled at me because you can temper HSS easily .....remember he is an engineer LOL....... The temp at the tip where you are grinding is much much more hotter then people think and according to him it will soften if you over heat it.....carry on sir :")
Gosh, you make it look so easy, Tom. Mine are coming off the $49 Harbor Freight grinder with more facets than my wife's wedding ring. I'll try the practice steel you mentioned but this grinder vibrates so much it might be time for a real one! Thanks.
Off hand grinding is a skill acquired through lots of practice. You'll eventually develop a feel so you can lift the tool off the wheel and place it back on in the same position (no facets). The vibration issue may be the wheel, not the grinder, unless the thing was dropped or something. Remove the wheel and run an indicator on the shafts. If they run true, take the wheel out into the back yard and throw it as far as you can.
Hello, I found out that you can finish off grinding a tool bit by using a die grinder with a 120 grit flap wheel.It gives all the surfaces a nice finish and is good for making a nice nose radius easily. I find that it works better than a finihing stone.Thanks,Terry
I would be concerned that unlike a hard stone, a flap wheel would round off the cutting edge in the process of finishing it. For a tool to cut correctly, the angles must be correct all the way to the cutting edge. Tom
Hi Tom. Started my trade ( Fitting/turning Diesel Fitter) 35 yrs ago. Changed jobs regretfully near 30 yrs ago. Not on tools but always had a well equipped garage. Bought a 930mm bed lathe a few yrs ago and was frustrated coz I forgot so much. Your videos have been an amazing help and inspiration on so many tips that only a person of your experience has. The way you put it across is also spot on even for an oldie like me. Ground my first 1/2" HSS tool in 30yrs and cut beautifully. Bit of a rant but vey grateful and appreciative of your help. Kevin
Thanks Kevin, it's good to hear that the videos are appreciated.
Thanks for watching.
Tom
Great video - worth rewatching every year or so...
My late Dad (a machinist of note) had a saying...
"Knowin' where yer goin' is wurf 'arf the distance run / knowin' when ta stop is the best rule in the shop".
That said, he would have me paint up the bit with marking blue and scribe the angles on it using his machinist's protractor. I cannot but recommend this practice to a beginner. Read the poem above.
This was at the tender age (mine) of 11, the year before starting high school, reason being Dad's growling "I knows that shop teacher. You gotta learn it proper and he doesn't know from nuffin' !"
(He spoke like that to irritate Mom, an English teacher at the same high school I was going to)
1965 was a long time ago...
RIP Mom 'n Dad...
Keep those stories alive as long as you can and tell them with such enthusiasm that others will pass them on. :)
Thanks for watchin'
Thank you for dispelling the darkness! Your presentation is excellent!
Frank Bonsignore
Thanks Frank.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I thought about making one for the facing tool, but there was so little difference , I decided not to. Really the only difference is that there is no side cutting edge angle on the facing tool. The 30º cut to clear the center is optional.
Tom
After all these years, this is still the best HSS tool grinding video Tom
Thanks!
Thanks this is very clearly helpful 👍
Thanks!
Always careful and safe.
Tom
nice video..
thank you very much
greeting from indonesia
Thanks Tom! Im a newbie to hobby machining, I just discovered HSS and cutting tool grinding. Before I thought carbide was the way to go, now I like the HSS better. Can you do a video about when to use HSS vs carbide?
I love that wood grain tool stool. Got to get me some of that.
You can't beat experience!
Would a sanding belt or disk work for grinding too?
I wouldn't recommend it. A belt won't give you as sharp an edge as a hard wheel. Besides, I've had parts grab a belt when angling them up, like you would when grinding a lathe tool. Though I don't normally recommend them for tools, you can get a reasonable bench grinder at Harbor Fright for about $40.
Thanks for watching.
Tom
I wish I had your experience to grind without a lot of difficulty. You make it look easy. Only thing that bothered me was you loose shirt tail around the grinder. I've seen a shirttail sucked into the grinder when I worked in a foundry.
I have a 12x36 grizzly, the guy that had it before used inserts a lot but he knew a lot. I'm just thinking I could spend all freaking week trying to make a cutting bit just right lol. Guess we'll see. I have an old home made lathe that came with a crap load of tooling still haven't gone thru it yet. I think the 2 large 8' long channel irons are going to end up as a home made break.
Tom...one of the best instruction I have seen, great info on HSS that it is ok to change color, wood model was tits...Chuck
This is where I have a problem, you said the right wheel was 100girt what is the left wheel grit?
Does it help if you finish it on a wet stone by hand after you grind or is that a waste of time? Thanks
It helps a lot for light metals and plastics. Doesn't make much difference on steel.
Tom
Thanks Tom, I just finished putting together a 10 inch atlas lathe I found in a junk yard! I had to buy a few parts from eBay but finally got it running. I was going to order some carbide inserts but i think I'm just going to learn how to sharpen this HSS, this video is a good start.
Interesting video. Thanks for posting it. I've never tried omitting the back rack on my cutters, but I'm going to grind up a couple using your suggestion and see how I like them.
A question for you: I work mostly in steel, aluminum, and stainless. Do you think it's worthwhile grinding up cutters for each particular material?
+Alistair Spence
Aluminum needs more clearance to cut freely and steel needs less to draw heat away from the cutting edge. You can use the same tool to cut both, but it will cut better if ground to suit the material you are machining.
Tom
That makes sense. Do you know of a reference that gives good numbers for HSS cutter geometry, for machining different materials. Seems like I can find plenty for carbide, but the numbers for HSS cutter geometry is less defined. Thanks for any help with this.
+Alistair Spence
Have you been to my website? There are diagrams for various tools in the reference section.
Tomstechniques.com
Tom
No sir, missed the website, but I'll check it out, right now!
Thanks.
Yep, those are exactly the numbers I was looking for. Nice! I see that you have the the geometry numbers for a fly cutter also. Very handy,
Thanks again!
Sorry but what's the trick at 12:40? I'm not a native english speaker and I can't really hear it.
Nice video tho!
+bmanooo
Thanks.
The trick is to not grind the cutting edge below the top face of the tool. That way when the tool needs resharpening, you just need to touch up the side and end faces and you get a LOT more life out of the tool bit. Once you establish the side rake angle, you should never touch it until the cutting edge gets too short to be useful. Then you just need to lengthen it to bring the tool back to its original geometry.
Tom
+Toms Techniques Thank you for your fast response and good quality videos! I just found your chanel and learned more in 30 minutes then 5 days in the shop. Our machining teacher sucks. :/
Keep up the good videos!
Is the same method for a carbide tool bit?
+RaFael Salgado
Yes. The only difference is that the clearance angles are less.
And also the grinding wheel is different
❤❤❤❤❤
If anyone has time to answer.......can't you just use carbide inserts to cut threads if money isn't an issue? Not that I don't want to learn this it's just something im wondering.
In this case i'm not using the inserts but actual carbide tipped tools.
Good point with the goggles for safety but you forgot to mention the safety for your lungs too..must wear dust mask.
when i seen the thumbnail of the giant tool, i was like holy hell how big is his lathe lol
Lol, not that big. Although I have seen lathes that would use a tool nearly that big.
😁😂😁
Excellent video man. 101 for beginners, no bs and very thorough. I’m learning and you’re the biggest help. Cheers mate.
I`m over 50 and I just got my first mill and a small lathe, believe me the stuff you show on here is priceless to me. Thank You very very much
You are very welcome.
Thank you for watching.
Tom
Hey, I'm 73 and just got my first mill/lathe and I too, appreciate the priceless help. Many thanks, I'll be visiting often.
60, and just got my 1st small mill, and through a very strange set of circumstances, 3 lathes (2 of them free!). Vids like this are very helpful, and having a brother in law that’s been in the machine shop business for his entire working life doesn’t hurt either! Ha! Thanks Tom!
Thanks, I love getting feedback like this so I know my message is getting through. As I said in the video, the best way to learn is by practicing on mild steel bar. When you can grind one that looks good, switch to HSS and put it to use. Hand grinding does take a lot of practice to develop the required hand/eye coordination so stick with it and practice practice practice.
Tom
teaching at its best. this is what i call learning things practically. really appreciate your efforts. thanks ...........keep uploading
Thanks, I'll be getting back to it soon.
Tom
This is a 5 star tuition video. Great focus on understanding why the faces are shaped as they are and a clear practical demonstration with top tips on using sparks to follow progress. I did some turning as a lad but never properly understood why the tool is shaped as it is. Now I do. Many thanks, Tom.
It took me about 7 minutes in to realize I needed to subscribe. Thanks!
You should also use a high feed rate so the chips carry the heat away. That's one reason why carbide is not necessarily a good choice for the light machines used in a home shop. Most don't have the power or rigidity to take advantage of it.
Tom
HSS is definitely more appropriate for the type of work the hobby machinist does and the type of machinery he uses. Very few hobby machines have the horsepower to take advantage of carbide tooling. Carbide is also much more expensive and less versatile than HSS. I will eventually do a video on HSS vs. carbide once I figure out the best approach.
Thanks,
Tom
Did you ever do one?
I wish i had a thousand upvotes to give you. Theres not a lot of us that are interested, but those of us that are and found your video came away satisfied. I wish i had a thousand upvotes.. .
klayzor
Every one helps.
Thanks for watching.
Tom
Tom...is there a difference between a HSS tool bit and a HSS drill, this question is in reference when grinding and the change of color due to heat, always thought it was bad for drill bits?
Hi Tom
Last night I watched a video showing how top grind a lathe tool bit made by a watchmaker, after watching the video I decided to give it a try. Well I put a shaft in the 10 inch clausing lathe, put the ground tool in the aloris style tool holder, I think something people over look is the old rocker style tool holder holds the tool bit at a different angle than the aloris style. I fired up the lathe to see how it cut, I started taking about .050 a side, hum not to bad. I tried it at .070 and it seemed to handle it fine. I went to .100 per side .200 over all and I could not believe that little lathe could remove that much metal in a single pass. The shaft was from an old electric motor I had salvaged, I am not sure what type of metal it was but it started out about 1.500 in dia. If you care to have a look at the video you will find it here th-cam.com/video/2R0l6I1yrrk/w-d-xo.html
Don't be fooled by the introduction, at first I thought it was a joke, but I was surprised by how well it worked.
Cheers John F
Tom you beaut, that is some skill, same as Clarence over 50 n just got lathe n mill, HSS arrived today , will defo try on some square stock from old door furniture that should be easy enough to grind. Keep up the great work TFS "thanks for sharing" all the best G :)
Thanks for watching. :)
Great video. I especially like the tip about practising on mild steel square stock. Many thanks from Paul in NZ
Excellent, Tom. I especially liked your advice on discarding the back rake.
You can use a carbide insert for threading, but it's much more expensive, less versatile and more difficult to use for the hobby machinist on the light machinery they use. If I were running a production part on a commercial lathe, I would use carbide, but for one off parts like 99% of hobby machinists make, HSS is a much better alternative.
Tom
altogether a good vid tho I didn't like how you kept flipping the wood model around as it was hard to visualize how it would be oriented in the holder and meeting the material to be cut.
If you are having trouble visualizing how the tool is oriented, you should visit my website and study the reference material on cutting tools.
Tom
good stuff! gaining confidence now to try grinding my first bits :)
what type of shape should you make for cutting a perfect square shoulder like on the inside of a receiver??
Turning to a shoulder requires a turning bit with an included angle of less than 90º. With it you can turn to a shoulder and then face it square.
Hello, i don't speak English, but i wish to say thank you for this great video, a great hug from Argentina
Yup, 60grit. 80 grit would produce a better finish, but it would also take longer to grind the tool. I like to use a coarse wheel to grind the tool and then stone the edges for a good finish.
Tom
Sir.. Wonderful explanation.. But a bit confused between Side & back rake... Can you please elaborate???
Thank you.
Go to my website and download the diagram for this video. That will clarify the various angles and faces.
Tom
What grinding wheels do you use on HSS toolbits? The youtube videos on this subject always avoid talking about the very confusing world of grinding wheels, where there are a dizzying number of variables to consider.
Who are the "idiots" that gave you thumbs down? Your video was great!!!
The thumbs down feature on TH-cam is totally useless. I don't mind constructive criticism, but a thumbs down without explanation is pointless.
Tom
Chuck,
As long as they made of high speed steel and not carbon steel, drills or tool bits will maintain their hardness up to around 1000ºF. Some grades such as M42 even go higher.
Tom
Hi Tom,
Really great videos! Please keep up the great work. I instruct shop at the local college and was wondering about your choice of a 90 degree angle between your side cutting edge and the front cutting angle. At the college we always make the students produce an 80 degree maximum angle at the same location. This gives up a bit of strength but it does allow the tool bit to now turn diameters and also face off the shoulder all in one setup. I like to hear your thoughts…
Thanks
John
Thanks.
I like to use a 90º for tools intended for turning only because they dissipate heat better than a more acute angle, which equates to longer tool life. If I need to turn to a shoulder, I'll either decrease the side cutting edge angle or increase the end cutting edge angle to end up with a 75º-80º included angle on the point.
Reference materials for both the turning and facing tools can be found on my website, tomstechniques.com.
Tom
High speed steel is great for the home gamer. I do a lot of brass and aluminum and it works terrific. No need to spend a months pay on carbide. I can save that money for spoiling my pugs and my guinea pigs.
I absolutely agree.
As a home hobby machinist trying to learn and teach myself so I can someday qualify for a manual machinist position I have to say; Tom, your videos are the best. I have watched thousands of hours of content from all of the big name channels out there and while I have learned from each of them, I always come back to yours. The way you break things down in to easy to understand ways and how you film every step of the process and explain what you're doing and why. So many other channels skip over things they feel aren't necessary, and I don't like that. From your how-to videos to your project playlists I love all of it. I've watched this video several times but I just came back to it again in an attempt to finally teach myself to grind HSS. And thanks to this video I made a successful tool! And it works so much better on my Chinese mini lathe than the carbide inserts I've been using. I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you, I hope you're doing well and I hope we can see some new content from you in the future, it's been a long time since we had an awesome new project to follow along with.
It's always good to hear when the videos have benefitted someone. I had planned on making more videos by now, two years into retirement, but life threw me a hell of a curve ball and took my 28 year old son. I would like to get back to it at some point, but it's probably going to be a while before I am able.
Thanks,
Tom
@@TomsTechniques I am so sorry for your loss. You and your family have my deepest condolences.
Just got some HSS and made my first turning and facing tools. They work great. Thanks Tom!
Good to hear!
It is thanks to generous people like you that I have learned all I know about turning, what has become my hobby for some years now. So I really appreciate your dedicate and invaluable work and detailed explanations! Now I mostly use carbide insert tools, but you always need to grind a special tool for some difficult job or intrincate part. Now I know that you must dominate both ways of cutting to cover all your needs. It's like using transistors without having heard thrugh a tube amplifier. You might never know what you are missing... So thanks for keeping an art alive.
+Angelo Zucco
Thanks for watching
The cutting speed for carbide is generally 4-5 times that of HSS, around 400 sfpm for 1045. Using the formula 4 X CS / DIA (see my video on cutting speed and RPM), that works out to about 1600 RPM. The chips should be a deep blue. If they start turning light colored, slow down the spindle or use coolant.
Tom
My main grinder is an 8" but I do have a 6" as well. Is it easier to use the 6" to put in the side clearances? Less need to hold the tool at a greater angle than on the 8"?
Tehnically a 6" grinder will generate slightly more clearance at the cutting edge, due to the sweep of the wheel, but I doubt you would notice the difference.
That's the wonderful thing about TH-cam . What ever you want to know about its there ! Thank you for posting Tom .
You are very welcome.
Thanks Tom, very informative video and not filled with um's, aws, and you knows!!
I had a different impression of what a facing tool did and you set me straight. I use M2 and pink grinding wheels 60 grit. Also have a cheap Chinese diamond wheel but never really understood the angle nomenclature till now. thanks again and don't fret the wise asses who are jealous of your video accomplishment.
Thanks for watching.
Hi Tom. Good stuff as always. I wonder if a companion video on stoning the tool to completion might be nice? Sharing your tool choices and techniques for that, as well as to why it is benficial might put a perfect finish on the subject.
Thanks for the vids Tom. Picking up my first grinder..... Should I get a 6" or 8" bench grinder?
+jawsmod
A six inch is fine for sharpening drills and tool bits, but an eight inch is more useful for larger things such as lawn mower blades, and the wheels last longer..
Tom
I am 55 and have raced dirt cars for 33 years. just got a small lathe. Great video and the way you teach how to do the grinding is easy for me to understand. I have a question. What is the grinding wheels made of and where is a good place to buy them? Again thanks! You are still helping people like me 8 years late . God Bless
Look for an aluminum oxide wheel, 60 or 80 grit (or both). Northern Tool carries Norton products, which are excellent, but any industrial supply will have bench/pedestal grinder wheels.
@@TomsTechniques Thank you for the information. I also want to tank thank you for the .pdf files that you have on your site. I have downloaded them and will laminate them to keep in shop. Again thanks!
just getting into machining as a sideline to my hydraulic mechanic day job, thanks for this excellent demo on tool bit geometry, learned a great deal. cheers for your time and effort making this. a new subscriber here 😊
+Stewart scallionboy Thompson
Thanks for watching and subscribing. :)
Tom
Thanks for taking the time to comment, I appreciate it.
Tom
Thank you very much for the excellent explanation, and for showing the practical parts.
Tom, I just bought my first lathe. I'm about to grind a couple tools. For good measure, I bought a couple 1/4" bits, a couple 5/16" bits, and a couple 3/8" bits. Can you give a rule of thumb for which size I should use when? Or does it even really matter on a lightweight hobbyist machine? Maybe a 1/4" would be all I can take advantage of on my machine. FYI, my lathe is a Grizzly G0752.
Thanks,
Jay
Tool size is mostly driven by part size. Small parts/small tools, big parts/big tools. It can also be driven by machine size. For instance, it may be difficult to hold a large tool in a small lathe and get the top of the tool on the center of the work.
Tom
That's helpful. Thanks!
Jay
An excellent video.
If I might make one suggestion, I would take a Sharpie pen and mark the top face of the tool before grinding. If you're new to this activity, it is quite easy to confuse which face you're working on - especially if you're grinding tools for working on brass bar where you don't actually need to grind away any of the top surface.
Thank you Tom!
Love to see the lathe that giant bit came from😁
Just picked up an old Unimat to build a roller skate wheel regroover, for my wife and her skate friends😎
Hi Tom. I just watched this one again and it is still very good. I am sure many will enjoy the benefits of your informative, well organized and personable presentations long into the future. I have for sure. I think off and on about that nice knurling tool you made. I know you are busy and it takes a lot of time to make a video. However, I am looking at this video having received 16,471 views and would like to point out how many have shared in your knowledge. Even what you have out now is enough for two teachers and you must not take it that I have unfulfilled expectations. I am very happy with what you have let us learn from you. Hope you are well and happy.
Best regards,
jim
Thanks Jim.
I've been enjoying the summer and have been spending zero time in the shop. The weather will go to hell soon enough and I'll be back in the shop looking for something to do, so hang in there. A tutorial on that knurling tool will be pretty high on the list of topics.
Tom
After studying all your videos I must say that today I had success on my lathe,my very first day turning. Also I freehand ground all my new 1/2x1/2 hss tool stock in 30 minutes,I actually felt 100% confident doing it all because of you ! Thank you so much,your videos are just awesome and get right to it and that's where I learn the best .
Excellent. It's always good to hear when someone gets some use out of the videos. You must have a good size lathe if you are using 1/2" tool bits!
Thanks for posting this video. This is always my go to video when I want to grind a new bit. My tool grinding also improved since I started supporting the tool bit in my hand instead of supporting it on the tool rest. I had stuff dug out of my eye as a teen and agree that it wasn't fun. I still get asked what happened whenever and optometrist looks into my eyes. Chris
+shadowdog500
Thanks Chris.
The free hand technique definitely gives you more control over the grind. It's good to hear that you able to see the vids. Eye accidents are definitely not fun.
Tom
I'm a machinery repairmen at A school. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to make this video.
MRFR Kuntzi
+Joshua Kuntzi
Thanks. And I appreciate you taking the time to watch them!
Tom
Hey Tom, thanks for the information, you talk about stoning your tools can you elaborate more on that ? Been trying to look up the stone technique but cant find anything..
Basically just give the various faces that you've ground a few strokes on a fine stone to polish up the cutting edge. I normally do the top face first, then the sides, then the radius if there is one. Cut in a downward direction, just like they were ground. Since the faces will be curved from the wheel, the stoning action will concentrate on the cutting edge itself.
Tom
Well noted, thank you...
Excellent Tom, this will be very useful, thank you, John
+John Patrick
Thank you John. Glad you liked it.
Tom
Thanks Chuck, glad you enjoyed it. Lot's of queries about where the huge wooden lathe is that goes with it.
Tom
I honestly never thought my precision machining teacher would have Norm Macdonald giving me a lesson🤣
sir please make also for other operations tools like boring tool and grooving tool
I would, but it would be quite repetitive. The same principles apply to any type of tool, especially a boring tool. The only difference for a grooving tool is that the clearance angles would be less.
Thanks.
A steady rest video is on my list of topics, I'll move it up a notch or two.
Tom
Great video!! Could you add time stamping to your videos to make it easier to reference? e.g. if you're switching from working on a turning tool to a facing tool etc.
Thanks!
I'll have to think about the time stamp thing. It sounds like a fair amount of effort on top of what it already takes to make the video.
Finally got the gumption up to try this. My first tool bit in a long time. Came out nice. Thanks for the blow by blow. Ditto klayzor. When are you coming back online?
+stxrynn
That's good to hear. The only way to learn a new skill is to practice it until you get it right.
I'm an avid outdoorsman, so when summer rolls around, you'll find me fishing, hiking, shooting or dirt biking, but you'll rarely find me in the shop. When the weather starts going to hell, I'll be back.
Tom
Thanks Tom, just recently got a Lathe and my HSS is arriving Tuesday. Nicely explained & didnt over-complicate things. I appreciate ya
Ps: I like the 4 x 4 tool bit, would like to see the grinder that was done on! :)
Thanks. Have fun with the new toy.
Thank you MAN. I really wanted to learn about Grinding Tools and your Video is simply the Best out there for me. Thank you. Keep it Up Brother :)
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks a lot sir for this so informative video. i got to understand the tool geometry and its grinding procedure. Thanks.
Thank you for watching
Very informative video. The wooden model with the various colored surfaces makes perfectly clear what you show in the grinding sequence. Excellent! I would like to see a wooden model for the facing tool, too. Thank you very much for your effort.
You want to keep your grinding lines perpendicular, not parallel to the 90° face. And you can’t use the fence regardless, otherwise you won’t have your clearance angles and rake. You hold the bottom edge of that tool on the fence and end up biting the wheel wheel with the tip, you’ll regret that decision.
By "fence", I assume you mean tool rest? If so, I only use it to rest my hand on, never the tool. If you are seeing something different in the video, perhaps you need to watch it again. And suggesting the grinding lines should be oriented in a certain direction sounds pretty nit-picky to me. I normally stone the edge anyway, so any grinding lines go away.
Thanks, but Tony already taught me this. I mean I don't own a lathe or any other machining tools. Never expect to use a lathe. I have, however, watched ToT teach me how for hours and hours and hours.
Hey I'm just kidding by the way. This is one of three channels that Tony credits for having better videos on the subject than he.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Most excellent.
At 10.10, I would have put the "angle tool" on the bench. I think controlling the HSS bar is easier without having to carry other stuff at the same time. Multi-tasking isn't for everyone - LOL, and they shouldn't be tempted to do like You...:)
Side rake, along with the side cutting edge angle helps guide the chip away from the work and makes the cutting edge more acute which makes the tool cut easier.
Tom
we are using a rectangular stock for turning tool before grinding . so if we decrease the angles on both the end and side cutting edges , how the included angle become 90 degree for turning ? plus the side cutting edge for roughing is zero not for facing. is that so ? thanks
You are confusing the side and end cutting edge angles with clearance angles. Go to my website, tomstechniques.com, and check out the reference section for diagrams.
You could make a fortune selling these tools. I for one would buy several facing and turning tools. My expertise in tool grinding is lacking. I took your advice and bought some stock metal to practice on, but ...well you know. I'm using a 7x12 mini lathe and it is a challenge. This is all new to me and I just can't get enough. Thanks Tom for you skill, patience and generosity in making these videos. I printed out the right hand facing tool on your site and will give that a try tomorrow. I have a variable speed 8 inch grinder. What speed should I be using. Where can I buy a facing tool all ready ground. I buy most of my stuff from Little machine shop.
Ken....the old guy
Kenneth,
I think McMaster Carr sells pre-ground tools but they are quite pricey. You should really take the time to learn how to do it yourself because tool grinding is a basic skill that every machinist should know. If you can't get it down with all of the info I've provided then I guess I haven't done a very good job. Stick with it and practice as much as you can. It will come.
Tom
i agree i would buy a set from you....but i will find buy a grinder and attempt this. this video is so grreat
hi ton found your videos all can say is thank you they are a great help just one question how do I find your Web site you and everyone has been talking about what do I type in thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge
Very big models..😁😁 Great job👍👍 & 5 star ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
I’m 99% certain I’m grinding my HSS tool exactly like this and I still don’t get a great finish. Still have very faint tooling lines that I can slightly feel with a fingernail. Maybe my china HSS tool isn’t really HSS??
Remember, you are cutting helical grooves in the surface, so there will always be tooling lines. You can make them less noticable by using a slower feed rate or a larger radius on the point of the tool, but they will never completely go away.
Toms Techniques
Thanks Sir, I’ll try to slow it down more. No auto cross feed on my lathe unfortunately.
Excellent video & diagrams. There was a lot of detail here that I used to know, but have to relearn now that I have my own small lathe. Thanks
Do you have a video to center tools on the lathe? If so then can you send me the link to it please.
For turning, just line it up with a center in the tailstock. For facing, take a cut and it;s easy to see if the tool is high or low.
Deverias de poner videos de rectificado tom
Hi Tom my friend and machining mentor has yelled at me because you can temper HSS easily .....remember he is an engineer LOL....... The temp at the tip where you are grinding is much much more hotter then people think and according to him it will soften if you over heat it.....carry on sir :")
As long as the tip doesn't get over 1000F, it won't lose its hardness.
Boy that looked pretty easy, I guess that is another thing experience does for you.
and then we put it in the mill vice and hit it with the hammer right? lol. nice cutter though.
Gosh, you make it look so easy, Tom. Mine are coming off the $49 Harbor Freight grinder with more facets than my wife's wedding ring. I'll try the practice steel you mentioned but this grinder vibrates so much it might be time for a real one! Thanks.
Off hand grinding is a skill acquired through lots of practice. You'll eventually develop a feel so you can lift the tool off the wheel and place it back on in the same position (no facets).
The vibration issue may be the wheel, not the grinder, unless the thing was dropped or something. Remove the wheel and run an indicator on the shafts. If they run true, take the wheel out into the back yard and throw it as far as you can.
Hello, I found out that you can finish off grinding a tool bit by using a die grinder with a 120 grit flap wheel.It gives all the surfaces a nice finish and is good for making a nice nose radius easily. I find that it works better than a finihing stone.Thanks,Terry
I would be concerned that unlike a hard stone, a flap wheel would round off the cutting edge in the process of finishing it. For a tool to cut correctly, the angles must be correct all the way to the cutting edge.
Tom