Galileo's FOC (Full operational capability) satellites have the ability to broadcast on the E5 band. As of this writing, there are 19 of these providing E5 signals, and another 3 of the older IOV (in orbit validation) type, for 22 total. Galileo's constellation is expected to be completed with 24 satellites in 2021, and I believe this implies 'with 24 E5 capable satellites'. GPS's L5 band is currently also having its constellation constructed, but it is further back; it currently has 16 satellites broadcasting a 'pre-operational' signal, and that constellation is not expected to be completed and considered fully operational until 2027. This is why you are likely to see fewer GPS than Galileo satellites. It's also why neither system is (as of yet) ready to be used solely on the basis of the E5/L5 signals, but that time will be coming soon for Galileo. When it does, it's likely that a single band E5 will be the most accurate GNSS receiver, because it can rely on one band's information, and not have to do calculations to interpolate L1 and E5/L5 signal information together, which is what the Garmin currently must do.
@@redsteam1 A fan. I love the promise of what newer GNSS band technology can do for accuracy, speed of determining location, reducing errors. The first big push we saw of this in the consumer space was what are called 'dual band' mobile phones, beginning with the Xiaomi Mi 8 in 2018, and that's where I started paying attention. However, when I saw reviews (like this one!) where someone would try a dual band receiver and get variable results -- sometimes HIGHLY variable results, what it felt like is 'This is showing some of the promise articles talk about with L5/E5, but it's not there yet. What am I missing? That's how I got into this. I don't think there's any dedicated consumer L5/E5 GNSS receiver out there yet, and even if there were, no one constellation BY ITSELF can provide a signal -- yet. When such a receiver appears, my guess is it will be released in Europe as a Galileo receiver for the constellation status I mentioned above -- "marketed as Galileo, but happens to also use GPS satellites if it can see them" sort of thing. L5/E5 ONLY, one that only uses the single band, is a VERY new concept. Someone prototyped it and explained why they're doing it, in October 2020. www.gpsworld.com/l5-only-receiver-designed-for-mobile-phones/ Whether a phone that can use a complete EU Galileo constellation for E5/L5, but is only using pre-operational signals for US GPS means another question mark in my mind as to whether I could legally sell an L5/E5 only phone in the US, because of E911 requirements, until 2027.
Thanks for the walk-through but you've got to realize that the "accuracy" that is shown is only the THEORETICAL accuracy that is derived from the PDOP accuracy based one the geometry of the satellites in the fix. To test the ACTUAL accuracy of a GPS system you need to log data. It can be as simple as walking around and recording your track. With the second band there should be great improvements in urban canyons because the chip can avoid using reflected signals in the fix. It would be great if you could to a test like that !
Yes, I realize that "accuracy" is still pretty much useless if the GPS is not actually being used to record an real activity. I started using the GPSMap 66SR to record my daily bicycle commutes which is about 5 miles round trip around NJ/NY area, for about two weeks, and have found that despite having a more "accuracy" compared to my Fitbit Ionic or my cellphone GPS, it still can not keep an accurate track of my route compared to the other two counterparts. For example, it will still show me riding my bike inside a building for couple blocks before back on the road, or riding in the water "away" from the bridge... The only advantage that I see at this point is that it does lock-on to satellites much faster in the city compared to my Fitbit Ionic, or my phone, which sometimes gets confused and would put me a couple blocks away from where I am in NYC. Hope it helps.
@@TheGizmoGarage yes NYC is a challenging environment for GPS receivers, possibly the worst! Getting a lock is easy for high sensitivity receivers (first ones were SiRF3 in 2005) but the signals bounce around so much that it gives poor accuracy. Still the more satellites the receiver can work with, the better, so dual band will help. The solution is to use accelerometers to help like some smartphones do now, the Mi10 Lite for instance.
You are relying on how accurate the device itself tells you it is. You are asking the device how good it is. If it said it was accurate to 2 inches, that would not necessarily make it so. Have you considered actually looking at the map to see where it indicates you are and then comparing it to where another device says you are, and then comparing both to where you actually are?
Just bought the Edge 1030 Plus, turned both 66SR and 1030 Plus on at the same location, 1030 plus takes much longer to acquire a signal while 66SR acquired a strong solid signal almost immediately. It's very subjective comparison but it also tells me that the dual channel mode indeed is faster in acquiring a signal. Whether it is more accurate in more challenging situations is to be further tested. So far it struggles in maintaining accurate position in concrete jungle of NYC.
It's mind boggling how many of this type of "accuracy estimates" are out there - when reviewing smartphones mostly. Usually it's a screenshot from the app GPS Test by Chartcross showing the supposed "1m accuracy" of Chinese phones vs brand names showing only "3 meters accuracy". The good reviewer couldn't bother to walk the phone against a map ...
No subscription required. I would recommend if you do a lot of hiking and walking in the woods. For cycling, I would highly recommend the Garmin Edge GPS units.
@@TheGizmoGarage : I'm in England and I have the new GPSmap67 which has Beidou, GPS, Glonass and Galileo......its extremely accurate (even indoors accuracy is down to 5 feet (1.5 metres). The battery life is 180 hours (standard mode) and 840 hours in "expedition mode" which is much better than most others.
Galileo's FOC (Full operational capability) satellites have the ability to broadcast on the E5 band. As of this writing, there are 19 of these providing E5 signals, and another 3 of the older IOV (in orbit validation) type, for 22 total. Galileo's constellation is expected to be completed with 24 satellites in 2021, and I believe this implies 'with 24 E5 capable satellites'.
GPS's L5 band is currently also having its constellation constructed, but it is further back; it currently has 16 satellites broadcasting a 'pre-operational' signal, and that constellation is not expected to be completed and considered fully operational until 2027.
This is why you are likely to see fewer GPS than Galileo satellites. It's also why neither system is (as of yet) ready to be used solely on the basis of the E5/L5 signals, but that time will be coming soon for Galileo. When it does, it's likely that a single band E5 will be the most accurate GNSS receiver, because it can rely on one band's information, and not have to do calculations to interpolate L1 and E5/L5 signal information together, which is what the Garmin currently must do.
Great info! Do you work in the navigation space? Just a big fan?
@@redsteam1 A fan. I love the promise of what newer GNSS band technology can do for accuracy, speed of determining location, reducing errors. The first big push we saw of this in the consumer space was what are called 'dual band' mobile phones, beginning with the Xiaomi Mi 8 in 2018, and that's where I started paying attention.
However, when I saw reviews (like this one!) where someone would try a dual band receiver and get variable results -- sometimes HIGHLY variable results, what it felt like is 'This is showing some of the promise articles talk about with L5/E5, but it's not there yet. What am I missing? That's how I got into this.
I don't think there's any dedicated consumer L5/E5 GNSS receiver out there yet, and even if there were, no one constellation BY ITSELF can provide a signal -- yet.
When such a receiver appears, my guess is it will be released in Europe as a Galileo receiver for the constellation status I mentioned above -- "marketed as Galileo, but happens to also use GPS satellites if it can see them" sort of thing. L5/E5 ONLY, one that only uses the single band, is a VERY new concept. Someone prototyped it and explained why they're doing it, in October 2020. www.gpsworld.com/l5-only-receiver-designed-for-mobile-phones/ Whether a phone that can use a complete EU Galileo constellation for E5/L5, but is only using pre-operational signals for US GPS means another question mark in my mind as to whether I could legally sell an L5/E5 only phone in the US, because of E911 requirements, until 2027.
This is great stuff @Skylerrabbit! I did not know these details before today, now I have a lot more to look into. :)
My gpsmap 64s goes down to 9 feet and mostly stays there. I don't feel the extra cost of the 66 is worth it just for 3 more feet accuracy..
What environment are you testing in? Urban or not?
Thanks for the walk-through but you've got to realize that the "accuracy" that is shown is only the THEORETICAL accuracy that is derived from the PDOP accuracy based one the geometry of the satellites in the fix. To test the ACTUAL accuracy of a GPS system you need to log data. It can be as simple as walking around and recording your track. With the second band there should be great improvements in urban canyons because the chip can avoid using reflected signals in the fix. It would be great if you could to a test like that !
Yes, I realize that "accuracy" is still pretty much useless if the GPS is not actually being used to record an real activity. I started using the GPSMap 66SR to record my daily bicycle commutes which is about 5 miles round trip around NJ/NY area, for about two weeks, and have found that despite having a more "accuracy" compared to my Fitbit Ionic or my cellphone GPS, it still can not keep an accurate track of my route compared to the other two counterparts. For example, it will still show me riding my bike inside a building for couple blocks before back on the road, or riding in the water "away" from the bridge...
The only advantage that I see at this point is that it does lock-on to satellites much faster in the city compared to my Fitbit Ionic, or my phone, which sometimes gets confused and would put me a couple blocks away from where I am in NYC.
Hope it helps.
@@TheGizmoGarage yes NYC is a challenging environment for GPS receivers, possibly the worst! Getting a lock is easy for high sensitivity receivers (first ones were SiRF3 in 2005) but the signals bounce around so much that it gives poor accuracy. Still the more satellites the receiver can work with, the better, so dual band will help. The solution is to use accelerometers to help like some smartphones do now, the Mi10 Lite for instance.
You are relying on how accurate the device itself tells you it is. You are asking the device how good it is. If it said it was accurate to 2 inches, that would not necessarily make it so. Have you considered actually looking at the map to see where it indicates you are and then comparing it to where another device says you are, and then comparing both to where you actually are?
Just bought the Edge 1030 Plus, turned both 66SR and 1030 Plus on at the same location, 1030 plus takes much longer to acquire a signal while 66SR acquired a strong solid signal almost immediately. It's very subjective comparison but it also tells me that the dual channel mode indeed is faster in acquiring a signal. Whether it is more accurate in more challenging situations is to be further tested. So far it struggles in maintaining accurate position in concrete jungle of NYC.
It's mind boggling how many of this type of "accuracy estimates" are out there - when reviewing smartphones mostly. Usually it's a screenshot from the app GPS Test by Chartcross showing the supposed "1m accuracy" of Chinese phones vs brand names showing only "3 meters accuracy". The good reviewer couldn't bother to walk the phone against a map ...
Have you had any issues with this device? Any shutdown when using birdseye for example?
Does this track you on a mapshare page like a Garmin Inreach does?
which app are you using for the GPS (the one on the screenshot)?
Does this device require any subscriptions and do you still recommend it?
No subscription required. I would recommend if you do a lot of hiking and walking in the woods. For cycling, I would highly recommend the Garmin Edge GPS units.
Thank you
10F vs 6F Come on......
Definetly a no go for me: No support of Beidou satellites!
I think only phones sold in China currently supports the new Beidou satellites, none of the handheld GPS supports it here in the US.
@@TheGizmoGarage : I'm in England and I have the new GPSmap67 which has Beidou, GPS, Glonass and Galileo......its extremely accurate (even indoors accuracy is down to 5 feet (1.5 metres). The battery life is 180 hours (standard mode) and 840 hours in "expedition mode" which is much better than most others.