For a 72-year-old former open boater (me) it is a class 6+. On my best days, I could run The Numbers and The Gorge, but I never built up the courage to even try Pine Creek. Just watching this video gives me the heebie-jeebies. Keeping a hard open boat dry in this kind of chaotic whitewater is nearly impossible. I think that most open canoeists who have run this have used the shorter boats completely filled with flotation. Even though I had a fairly dependable roll, some those hydraulics look to be keepers. A paddler could spend eternity window shading in one of them. I'm just glad that I don't have to worry about the decision whether to run it or not now that I'm out of the sport. I knew my limits.
Depends on the CFS. Between 1300 to 1800 cfs the hole below Pine Creek rapid gets really sticky. Plus, if you go out of the boat there, you're probably swimming all the way through Triple Drop.
For a rafter, probably a stiff Class IV, but for a kayaker, a VERY stiff 4 and that hole down by the big rock is a solid 5 between 1,500 and 2,500 cfs. Which is why I never ran Pine Creek. Always put in below. I really don't think most companies should run it commercially.
Class IV at Best. For something to be class V there has to be a strong chance you can die if you dont make the line. Enjoy the river and keep paddling which is the most important thing
As you say, enjoying the river is definitely the most important thing; but in regards to your ego and our place in the whitewater dominance hierarchy - I was just quoting our national whitewater organization, American Whitewater, who uses Pine Creek as a benchmark for Class V whitewater, and actually says that for something to be Class V there has to be: "Extremely long, obstructed, or very violent rapids which expose a paddler to added risk. Drops may contain large, unavoidable waves and holes or steep, congested chutes with complex, demanding routes. Rapids may continue for long distances between pools, demanding a high level of fitness. What eddies exist may be small, turbulent, or difficult to reach. At the high end of the scale, several of these factors may be combined. Scouting is recommended but may be difficult. Swims are dangerous, and rescue is often difficult even for experts. Proper equipment, extensive experience, and practiced rescue skills are essential." Now, I might add that it was running under 1,200 in the video - which arguably might mean that its 4+, or 5- on this run - but its a super sporty descent for an above average country boy and a suburban professional mom, and I think the average park visitor would die if they fell out of the raft at the top of it, so what do ya say you give us your approval, partner? Much love and hope to see ya on the river! - www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Wiki/safety:class5benchmarkrapids
Dude, at least half a dozen people have flush drowned in Pine Creek, mostly as a result of screwing up the S Turn move (easily a solid class IV move in itself) and swimming out of the hole. What more do you want? Being out of your boat has proven to be a life-threatening situation here.
For a 72-year-old former open boater (me) it is a class 6+. On my best days, I could run The Numbers and The Gorge, but I never built up the courage to even try Pine Creek. Just watching this video gives me the heebie-jeebies. Keeping a hard open boat dry in this kind of chaotic whitewater is nearly impossible. I think that most open canoeists who have run this have used the shorter boats completely filled with flotation. Even though I had a fairly dependable roll, some those hydraulics look to be keepers. A paddler could spend eternity window shading in one of them. I'm just glad that I don't have to worry about the decision whether to run it or not now that I'm out of the sport. I knew my limits.
Depends on the CFS. Between 1300 to 1800 cfs the hole below Pine Creek rapid gets really sticky. Plus, if you go out of the boat there, you're probably swimming all the way through Triple Drop.
I particularly like the surfer stance @ 3:36
The second rule of Class 5 boating is "stay in the boat"!
Strong Class IV with class V consequences. If you fall out you’re going to swim ALL of that
Exactly. Like dowd chute in high water.
all of it.
Swim? You aren't swimming anything at that point. You are floating along for the ride.
For a rafter, probably a stiff Class IV, but for a kayaker, a VERY stiff 4 and that hole down by the big rock is a solid 5 between 1,500 and 2,500 cfs. Which is why I never ran Pine Creek. Always put in below. I really don't think most companies should run it commercially.
Man I’d love to see that area.
I can help with that! Reach out any time you want the local tour (that's the one where you get really wet).
@@theferalife6452 if I ever get lucky enough to get out there I’ll for sure let you know.
Nothing more satisfying than paddling with your lady!
This is a long, long Class V rapid. I ran it once commercially, and it all turned out okay, but I do not think I will run this rapid again.
Class IV at Best. For something to be class V there has to be a strong chance you can die if you dont make the line. Enjoy the river and keep paddling which is the most important thing
As you say, enjoying the river is definitely the most important thing; but in regards to your ego and our place in the whitewater dominance hierarchy -
I was just quoting our national whitewater organization, American Whitewater, who uses Pine Creek as a benchmark for Class V whitewater, and actually says that for something to be Class V there has to be:
"Extremely long, obstructed, or very violent rapids which expose a paddler to added risk. Drops may contain large, unavoidable waves and holes or steep, congested chutes with complex, demanding routes. Rapids may continue for long distances between pools, demanding a high level of fitness. What eddies exist may be small, turbulent, or difficult to reach. At the high end of the scale, several of these factors may be combined. Scouting is recommended but may be difficult. Swims are dangerous, and rescue is often difficult even for experts. Proper equipment, extensive experience, and practiced rescue skills are essential."
Now, I might add that it was running under 1,200 in the video - which arguably might mean that its 4+, or 5- on this run - but its a super sporty descent for an above average country boy and a suburban professional mom, and I think the average park visitor would die if they fell out of the raft at the top of it, so what do ya say you give us your approval, partner?
Much love and hope to see ya on the river!
- www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Wiki/safety:class5benchmarkrapids
Dude, at least half a dozen people have flush drowned in Pine Creek, mostly as a result of screwing up the S Turn move (easily a solid class IV move in itself) and swimming out of the hole. What more do you want? Being out of your boat has proven to be a life-threatening situation here.