Thank you so much - this short episode was helping me a lot to understand the 50 ohm load stuff and the RF power measurement. Your education is being done with passion and being priceless. Very warm regards from Hannover/Germany, Helmut
Hi mr IMSAI guy, I continue to be amazed on the amount of knowledge, expertise you have and the aptitude to bring this across so clearly. Greetings from an LED fanboy! :-)
We went to Excess Solutions yesterday. We're in Sunnyvale and have never been there--your video reminded me to make a visit. Kept looking at people's hands to see if you were there (because that's the only way I'd recognize you).
OMG, So much maths. I hate maths. My after school maths teacher gave me an F- LOL. Thank god for calculators and computers. Cheers Mate, This is just what I need. Thank you.
I just watched this again to reinforce the message on converting P-P and RMS - many el-cheapo signal generators (like mine) only work on P-P values. Many thanks.
Hmm, think your scope is a 70 MHz unit unless my old eyes are wrong! ;-) Just got done teaching this to our General class...'course that focus is on high power vs. low. Thanks for the tutorial!
Hello, a week ago you presented the "Power Snitch". It works relatively precisely, but only shows "ok", "warning" and "bad" via LED. What do you think about the "RF Power Meters" on ebay. Sure, these are cheap detectors that are likely to be highly inaccurate. But even with 10 or 20 percent errors, that is easily enough as an assessment for the TinySA.
actually the Power Snitch also outputs a voltage which could be translated into a measurement by for instance an arduino or something simular which then displays the power on a display. Actually this is on my todo list to experiment with my Power Snitch on this feature ;-)
@@mrbambix I had ordered the "Power Snitch" and had already played around with it. The volt output is ok, and I also had the idea of reading it out with an Arduino Nano and an LCD. But the whole thing then becomes much too unwieldy and the character of fast testing for the TinySA is lost. I don't have a lot of experience with HF and spectrum analyzer. The Arduino only has a 10 bit A/D and no good ref voltage. That will probably be less accurate than the china "RF Power Meter" for 20 EUR, which internally is probably just a diode detector, a microcontroller and a display.
@@wernerpeter9706 my idea was to input from my calibrated r&s cmt 52 different power levels and then use those measured voltages then I would not need any ref voltage in de Arduino pic or what ever you get a reasonable reading. Why not use the cmt directly I hear you asking? Well big and needs to warm op for a quick measurement my idea would be sufficient I believe.
@@mrbambix We're probably talking about different things. I mean the voltage reference of the Ardunio's AD converter. With oversampling and the lowest possible noise, the measurement result will probably be very imprecise. Especially without the possibility of comparison with a real measuring device (which I unfortunately do not have available). If I then compare this structure of different modules with the 20 Euro module with a likely similar measurement error, then it's not worth it. Sorry, hope my English is understandable :-)
So I am watching this again. I was curious in what you would suggest the proper watt meter would be best in measuring SG output for am/fm radio alignment along with the use of a SA? When injecting signals into radio and aligning the if transformers I wish to use my SA to perfect alignment of radio. Does this make sense to you? Looking for suggestions to do this without destroying my SA.
Well, that depends on your budget. Most good generators have calibrated outputs. You don't need calibrated output power to do a receiver alignment. You are just maximizing things so it is all relative. The only time you need calibrated input to a receiver is to measure the sensitivity or Sinad. The most useful tool will be a good stepped attenuator. this can be part of the generator or external. the lowest signal for a receiver will be around -80dBm. You are worried about damaging the SA. You never connect the generator to the SA so it will not be the problem anyway. You can use non-contact probes on the SA to do the alignment so you should not have any issues damaging the SA.
@@IMSAIGuy So, using a near probe with the SA I can probe the if transformers and maximize my alignment Making adjustments as I go? Am I understanding what you are saying here? Thanks for your time on this.
@@IMSAIGuy With my oscilloscope I get some reliable reading on RMS 65 Mhz in comparison with the TinySA the two reading luck +/- similar less of one dBm. I think with your particular experience in this field some solution for one reliable cheap option with the chino board "AD8317 / AD8318 Module RF Power Meter Detector Logarithmic Detector 1-10000MHz" the question is some source of calibration to compare.
Thank you so much - this short episode was helping me a lot to understand the 50 ohm load stuff and the RF power measurement. Your education is being done with passion and being priceless.
Very warm regards from Hannover/Germany, Helmut
Danke
You got me! More of this please.Thanks for the look.
Hi mr IMSAI guy, I continue to be amazed on the amount of knowledge, expertise you have and the aptitude to bring this across so clearly. Greetings from an LED fanboy! :-)
We went to Excess Solutions yesterday. We're in Sunnyvale and have never been there--your video reminded me to make a visit.
Kept looking at people's hands to see if you were there (because that's the only way I'd recognize you).
What did you buy
@@IMSAIGuy Nothing! We just looked around. But I'll probably be coming back when it's time for my next project.
As usual very clearly explained. Do not love math but in this forme it's fascinating! Thank and 73 Albert
I just discovery my 10Mhz TXO sinusoidal out is 0.7 dBm good starting point the value is similar to my TinySA reading
Excellent information and well presented.
Thank you!
OMG, So much maths. I hate maths. My after school maths teacher gave me an F- LOL. Thank god for calculators and computers.
Cheers Mate, This is just what I need. Thank you.
If I remember correctly, that conversion for P-P to RMS is valid only for sine forms. If I recall correctly, it might be worth a mention. ;)
Yes that's true. If you don't have a sine wave then you have harmonics and you will need a true power meter.
Nice presentation. Thanks 👍❤️
I just watched this again to reinforce the message on converting P-P and RMS - many el-cheapo signal generators (like mine) only work on P-P values. Many thanks.
Hmm, think your scope is a 70 MHz unit unless my old eyes are wrong! ;-) Just got done teaching this to our General class...'course that focus is on high power vs. low. Thanks for the tutorial!
software hack opens it up to 100mhz
@@IMSAIGuy Ahaa!
www.instructables.com/How-to-Hack-Upgrade-a-Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscill/
@@IMSAIGuy Yeah, was aware of all the hacks...I have the 4054 scope.
@@PapasDino us poor folk have to grovel in the 1000 series
Hello, a week ago you presented the "Power Snitch". It works relatively precisely, but only shows "ok", "warning" and "bad" via LED. What do you think about the "RF Power Meters" on ebay. Sure, these are cheap detectors that are likely to be highly inaccurate. But even with 10 or 20 percent errors, that is easily enough as an assessment for the TinySA.
they might be fine used as a snitch. I have not tested any.
actually the Power Snitch also outputs a voltage which could be translated into a measurement by for instance an arduino or something simular which then displays the power on a display. Actually this is on my todo list to experiment with my Power Snitch on this feature ;-)
@@mrbambix I had ordered the "Power Snitch" and had already played around with it. The volt output is ok, and I also had the idea of reading it out with an Arduino Nano and an LCD. But the whole thing then becomes much too unwieldy and the character of fast testing for the TinySA is lost. I don't have a lot of experience with HF and spectrum analyzer. The Arduino only has a 10 bit A/D and no good ref voltage. That will probably be less accurate than the china "RF Power Meter" for 20 EUR, which internally is probably just a diode detector, a microcontroller and a display.
@@wernerpeter9706 my idea was to input from my calibrated r&s cmt 52 different power levels and then use those measured voltages then I would not need any ref voltage in de Arduino pic or what ever you get a reasonable reading. Why not use the cmt directly I hear you asking? Well big and needs to warm op for a quick measurement my idea would be sufficient I believe.
@@mrbambix We're probably talking about different things. I mean the voltage reference of the Ardunio's AD converter. With oversampling and the lowest possible noise, the measurement result will probably be very imprecise. Especially without the possibility of comparison with a real measuring device (which I unfortunately do not have available). If I then compare this structure of different modules with the 20 Euro module with a likely similar measurement error, then it's not worth it. Sorry, hope my English is understandable :-)
So I am watching this again. I was curious in what you would suggest the proper watt meter would be best in measuring SG output for am/fm radio alignment along with the use of a SA? When injecting signals into radio and aligning the if transformers I wish to use my SA to perfect alignment of radio. Does this make sense to you? Looking for suggestions to do this without destroying my SA.
Well, that depends on your budget. Most good generators have calibrated outputs. You don't need calibrated output power to do a receiver alignment. You are just maximizing things so it is all relative. The only time you need calibrated input to a receiver is to measure the sensitivity or Sinad. The most useful tool will be a good stepped attenuator. this can be part of the generator or external. the lowest signal for a receiver will be around -80dBm. You are worried about damaging the SA. You never connect the generator to the SA so it will not be the problem anyway. You can use non-contact probes on the SA to do the alignment so you should not have any issues damaging the SA.
@@IMSAIGuy So, using a near probe with the SA I can probe the if transformers and maximize my alignment Making adjustments as I go? Am I understanding what you are saying here? Thanks for your time on this.
@@jdmccorful yes
@@IMSAIGuy 10-4, thanks!
hello, on my oscilloscope I get "cylinc RMS" and "period RMS" what is the one to make the calculation -Thank you
I've never heard of that.
@@IMSAIGuy With my oscilloscope I get some reliable reading on RMS 65 Mhz in comparison with the TinySA the two reading luck +/- similar less of one dBm. I think with your particular experience in this field some solution for one reliable cheap option with the chino board "AD8317 / AD8318 Module RF Power Meter Detector Logarithmic Detector 1-10000MHz" the question is some source of calibration to compare.
@@frankreal2258 calibration is difficult. I will be building my own power meter sometime in the future. Not sure when