A man who talks in hackneyed and clichéd quotes never learned learned to think for himself and communicate effectively. Kris didn't make mistakes. Mistakes is a word armchair experts and know-it-alls use to feel superior. He did things well in the first place and through experience learns to do better.
No info is more valuable then field testing. Worked for Caterpillar for years. They spared no expense in designing new equipment. Yet before a new model came put they would send "field follow" machines out to certain customers for them to run for 2k hours then they take the machines back tear them completely apart and inspect everything. In that 2k hours it's amazing at how much stuff fails! Even things and designs that have been used for years but because of one little change it can cause downstream issues. I think you did fantastic and I even thought it was a little overkill the first time you built it! So I definitely think you got a great design now and only can improve from here!!!!
Great infomation about Cat. I heard the same thing about Rolls Royce: They would run their Merlin engine until something broke, fix it, then run the next iteration until it broke.
Great video as always. Been there and done that. Those that build, make mistakes. Keep ‘em coming. I like seeing the creative solutions that you come up with.
I'm late, but. pre-heating of any high yeld metal by thickness allows the metal to rid moisture from base metal( the shaft) weld area will causes hydrogen if not pre-heated in the weld area inside the base metal (the shaft) that causes micro crack and failure down the road
Don’t beat yourself up Kris. This is still an amazing project. Putting your hand up to admit there’s a problem, working out the cause, working out a solution, AND documenting the whole process; shows you in a better light than some companies 100 times your size. Your customer also seems to be a good egg. Keeping you informed of an emerging issue, and having faith in you to resolve it! Awesome job! 👊🏼
There are only a few people like you Chris left in this country. Thank you sir for being a man of your word, I hope this video pays you back 1000x what this repair cost you. God bless.
I was a certified weld inspector and I was going to say my guess was the shaft needed pre-heating. We had some big 4" shaft fail because of that exact reason. Good for you, you'll get it figured out. There is sooo much to know you can't be expected to know everything about everything right away.
I would agree however I would expect the shaft to break on the outside where the load is. I think the end cap was too thin and cause the shaft to flex until it broke. I would add a center support inside the tube after seein this.
@@hayd7371 No, not really stress. You know when knife makers quench the blade to make it hard? They heat it up and then dunk it into oil or water to rapidly cool it. This rapid cooling retain a specific crystalline structure of the steel that would of been lost if it was allowed to cool slowly. When you weld chunky stuff, similar thing happens. The weld concentrates heat in a relatively small area, and when you're done, the surrounding cool area sucks the heat out from the weld, basically quenching the welded area. There is some stress from the rapid cooling, but the reason it fails under load is because of that locked in crystalline structure that makes it hard and brittle.
@@Manigo1743 Bad customer service would be making a mistake and not fixing it, he had clear communication with the customer and fixed his honest mistake (One that many professionals also make) free of charge.
I would encourage you to embrace any potential for being wrong and have The Bravery to put yourself out there . That sort of authenticity in these videos is what makes them invaluable. If you do something and it's completely wrong and you're so certain that it's alright and then you show us in fact that you were mistaken and you discover what the truth is, I can't imagine anything more valuable on the planet than seeing that entire thing play out. I thoroughly enjoy watching all of your videos but the ones where things didn't go right and you work through the process of how you thought about it and what you had to do to fix it are the best videos you have in my opinion.
Mate, this had to happen, the learning curve here is steep, but 1/2 million viewers have learnt something with you on this journey. So impressive how you improved this prototype build. Kudus to your client as well, their patience, their enthusiasm, this waterwheel free energy technology is adictive.
A man that can talk about his mistakes and fix them is a real man! Your customer service is what your business make stand out! Thanks for taking us with you and thank you for your honesty.
Hats off to you for owning these issues and hats off to the customer for being so understanding. This is how progress is made and I would hope that in the long run its beneficial for both this customer, your knowledge of the craft and your ability to continue this kind of work. Its bloody fascinating to watch anyway!
I'm keen to understand how the new system locks the wheel in place on the axle. My idea would have been to machine a floating hub that the wheel can bolt to, in the same way a car wheel bolts to an axle. The "wheel nuts" only deal with the rotational force, and the wheel resting on the hub on the axle handles the weight of the wheel.
The waterwheel build really makes you appreciate how much work goes into building them. Imagine trying to do this back in the day from wood and no metal machining equipment.
Makes you wonder how much went into making the earlier water wheels. There had to be quite a bit of trial and error to get the wooden water wheels balanced and running reliably for longevity! Very god video series and though it was painful your approach to making it right for your customer was spot on Kris!
As an engineer I really appreciated this fault finding and fixing video. Kudos to you Kris for a great approach to solving this issue, professionally with great workmanship. Exactly the reason why your channel is one of the few I have the notifications bell set on. Keep up the great work!
Kris, you are a noble and refreshingly accountable gentleman. Set-backs sure do allow a person to improve designs, as frustrating as they are. Thomas Edison sure had his share, and today we are so grateful for his perseverance. Best of success to you, Kris.
I just watched all Water Mill Videos at once. That was a pain in the But. I hope and wish that everything is going well and that you don't have to put your hands again on that Wheel. All the best Dude.
My experience in the TX oilfield makes me think the failure was out-of-round / harmonic issues. We used to see similar failures and new equipment now includes inline rubber dampers (Dorman 935-101) and our failure rate has gone down drastically. Your channel is an inspiration, keep up the good work.
In this case I do think it was the weld, I was even slightly surprised at the relatively small size of bearing block used considering the weight of the water and load characteristics. Resonance can tear apart huge equipment and lead to substantial damage and loss, you are right. Resonance could be measured at defined rpm and logged. It is good practice to do so as it makes planned maintenance possible when there are indications of failure. Not sure what the devices cost nowadays, they used to be very expensive but nonetheless useful. Especially in an environment like you described, or a chemical plant where the procedure is used for pumps.
Engineering, Physics, and Machining fix everything. I enjoy watching your mistakes not because I don't make my own, but because I am also a member of the "My Fault" club.
Yep. And seeing all this knowledge put it in practice makes me respect a lot more the ancient craftsmen. With all the technology and knowledge at the tip of the finger, doing it properly takes so much time and effort. Imagine doing this centuries ago. And they did it.
Your honesty and humility in the face of this monster engineering challenge is truly inspiring. As my dad once told me a man who never made a mistake never did anything.
It is nice to watch somebody who is happy and willing to see their mistake and also spend the time and money to rectify it. Hats off to you fella, the customer make a great choice hiring you. 👍
Just now found your channel earlier on your videos 9 months or so ago when you were actually building this waterwheel. Bro, you absolutely BEASTED this job, very very well done, awesome job!
It’s likely not the torque that killed it, but the bending of the shaft between the two bearings. The whole weight of wheel and water is on there, and rotating as well. Repeated bending -> fatigue break.
my thoughts exactly. Metal fatigue, rotating bending. Also the welds may be strong for static loads, but for fatigue loading they are much weaker than the shaft material.
Agree. Fatigue analysis in ships and large structures concentrates almost exclusively on welds, as they have a much worse fatigue curve than anything else. Basically the fatigue cracks have already been initiated in the welds as there is no such thing as a crack-less weld. So, preferably design the structure such that the welds are not in the main stress area of a repeated stress range, such as the surface of a rotating axle that is in bending (repeated tension-compression). The repeated stress range opens up any tiny crack and propagates it through the structure until it fails. You can design for it (ships have butt welds that run through the entire hull section) but the welds need a lot of attention and the rules take the fatigue into account. For a shaft you could probably weld to it, provided you have a bulge on it (trumpet shaped on either end) where the flange connects, to take the weld out of the axle's stress range. That bulge may be fabricated by turning down a very large diameter axle to the shape you need (a lot of waste) or have a forging (expensive and maybe not for relatively simple engineering). Your solution with a clamped collar does away with the welding altogether so your fatigue life is vastly improved, because you have no crack initiation. Besides that you have done away with the stress concentration (which a welded flange on an axle is as well). Well done, you've got a solid structure now I should think.
I would argue that the welds themselves and the material is perfectly fine. THe problem is his experience With welding. Depending on the material I'm going to say that he didn't pre-heat the shaft and surounding metal and then let it slowly cool down. When you don't pre-heat large or thick pieces of steel (specially harder ones) the main piece and weld will properly meld and be strong but because the rest of the shaft is cold it will rapidly pull the heat away causing it to essentially harden but ONLY at the welding area causing stress fractures.
Spot on. My own thought would have been to construct the waterwheel to have received water from a millrace rather than over the water shooting over the top. But I am still appreciative of the corrective efforts made here.
I agree the weld probably created by a crack or undercut on the shaft and the cycling bending stress on the shaft caused a failure of the shaft. If you know someone who can model your new design and do a failure analysis, this may give you confidence that it will not have another failure. And may save you money in the long term.
Kris, I worked with an experienced carpenter once as a young guy. He asked me if I wanted to know the secret to becoming a great wood worker. With my full attention I said yes. He proceeded to tell me the secret to being a good tradesman is one who can solve his own mistakes. You got that covered! appreciate the honesty and walking us through the solution.
It's called 'Field Testing' for a reason. This is where any design issues show themselves. Don't be let down by this, Kris, all inventors/designers go through this phase of product development. Rarely is a product perfect on the first attempt. Glad we get to see the progression of development. All part of the process. Cheers!
Another testament to your integrity. I've heard it said by wiser men than myself that mistakes are an opportunity to learn something new. You have proven it to be true.
Hi Kris, Large cyclical loads on a high-frequency rotating shaft is classic fatigue failure. The welding certainly would have contributed to the failure but if the shaft was never designed for fatigue failure it still would have broke, welded or not. Sizing for torque based on the smallest diameter dimension is only part of specifying the shaft.
Well done Kris.........yet again.............. You didn't make any mistakes, you just gained the knowledge at a slightly slower pace than the work progressed, then you reasoned it out and applied it accordingly. ................Rome wasn't built in a day and considering everything else you are doing I think you're doing excellently. Keep it up it's still incredibly enjoying to see.
Outstanding work and always positive to acknowledge one's mistakes. A man who never made a mistake has never done anything. Thank you for this fascinating series of videos.
I Mac 1944. You are an all round engineer Kris, wood, stone, hydraulic and metal of any kind, it's a pleasure viewing your work. Your honesty is a credit to you.
Admirable work Kris. It’s really hard as a tiny operation to eat the costs of this kind of failure, and the fact that you present it all so transparently is a credit to you. As they say, you live and learn, so hopefully this doesn’t happen in the future projects that must be coming your way.
Measure twice, cut once,, throw it away and start over. Every prototype is that way so I don't even swear to much anymore. Every would be designer/builder needs to watch this, thanks
And kudos to your customer giving you the ‘room’ to customise as needed to get the right product for their situation and when something that is so bespoke such teething problems should be expected. Well done for getting it sorted so well. Great advertisement for your business.
Its more important to show failures and "what could have been done better" in videos to show progress is about hard work and mistakes along the way. But my god man you are an inspiration with your absolutely mind melting variety of skills and abilities when it comes to building stuff.
Pretty amazing when you think about it. You have the ability to build almost anything. And you do it in a hand built shop of mud, straw, and wood, that is powered by hydro and solar. Plus, you're an incredible engineer and woodworker. There's a reason I wait for your videos to drop. Great job again Kris.
Chris, you have an amazing engineer's mind! Be encouraged! I am a registered professional engineer in the US and thought I would let you know how amazing and brilliant you are! Keep building and wisdom will continue to grow in you. You should consult with a structural engineer to help you estimate the normal shear loads and torsional shear loads which could be introduced on the center shaft should the bearings in pillow block fail. Keep up the good work.
So glad The Algorithm brought this back. Really enjoyed the original build, and great to see your integrity with the repair. I'm pretty sure you've got it right this time!
Amazing project,love how you show the highs and lows. Well done. Unfortunately shows how efficient the peloton projects are per pound and man hours compared to the water wheels
Back in the early days of steam a slack tolerance shaft to wheel was used, any gap was filled with iron filings an urine was poured on. When it came to time to scrap the wheel had to be cut off as the cut was so tight, this led to the expression A Piss Fit. The profit from your build is experience, good luck with your future projects and the barn build.
I agree, no use of fretting too much about the mistake - someone wiser than me realised that without making mistakes no one learns or grow. I enjoy watching and looking you work.
Excellent project review! Thanks for sharing so openly. Too often BLOGers post the success and leave out the realities... BTW: soapy water might be a better libricant. Natural orange soap surface cleaner does a great job or Windex... And yes, it is messy...
That was bad news, Kris. All these things are sent to try us. But you stood up to it despite it being soul destroying. Well done, Sir. It's now a belt and braces job. Amazing skill and perseverance👍👍.
I've just started watching some of your videos, I spent 35 years as an agricultural engineer, in my time I serviced and fixed a lot of combine harvesters, when I saw you weld that shaft, I was thinking why doesn't he fit a big boss each side and just use a tapered key to hold it tight. It's not so common nowadays to use such stuff, but have seen well over 500hp going through such stuff and very few failures. Anyway, no one gets everything right first time, and I like a man who can overcome problems, there's not many left around nowadays. Great channel by the way 👍
Making one-offs and prototypes is always a learning experience. I certainly couldn't have predicted any failure from watching your original build but the new solution you've come up seems to have addressed the welding issue perfectly. I hope TH-cam helps to compensate you for your losses in this development. I have to say, it's been absolutely fascinating and I only wish I had a stream passing alongside my house because I would really love one of your waterwheels.
In Nova Scotia they where trying to harness the ocean currents their first try failed in a simulator way they had to beef up the structural strength to have it last ! IMO
Use the friction coupler at work and we always grease them up well, and looks like your turndown shaft support could do with collar supports to the main backing disc to stop any movement, looks amazing well done
Amazing Kris! nearest thing to precision engineering in a wattle and daub cowshed, absolutely remarkable. Your problem solving skills are a match for your humility, keep pushing the limits and sharing this wonderful content.
This is why I love this channel. If you don’t make mistakes you don’t learn. Being a tradesman for over 40 years I’ve made many! Great to see the thought your thought process in redesign.
I appreciate your honesty and unflinching analysis of what went wrong. Such a valuable trait for a person to have. I know you are beating yourself up even now but I bet your customer has a smile on their face. Sumitomo sells planetary and other gearsets for industrial applications that would drive a wheel 10x that size. You can usually source them from factories and other heavy industry facilities that are making capital upgrades. In the U.S. I snagged a 649:1 gear reducer for a 5.33HP 1750RPM motor for $350 with delivery a few years back.
Very impressive work to stand behind your product and deliver for your customer. One thought about your new system. You have a couple of friction fits where you have a tiny gap between the shaft and the part that goes around it or the part that goes around it and goes to the hub. While these gaps are indeed tiny they're still large relative to water molecules. Water molecules love to get into anywhere. So a core question that is worth asking is what is the electrical potential for oxidation between the two steels the shaft and the hub and the hub and the water wheel. If you have a galvanic potential between those two you will have the opportunity for corrosion. The corrosion product is bigger than the steel and so things will tend to want to lock up. Part of that is good it flugs up the gap part of that is not so good makes it almost impossible to get things back apart. To whatever extent you can protect the tiny gaps from water intrusion would be a bonus. Whatever extent you could use steels which avoid the corrosion is a bonus point. Of course it's been installed for 2 months now and the environment is doing its best to cause problems and you're doing your best to keep it from doing that. Best wishes I enjoy your work greatly I'm impressed by your engineering skill
Hi, Thanks for that. I dont think I will get much corrosion from the locking bushes to the shaft or end plates. the locking bushes are coated and the shaft having such a high amount of chrome in it means it won't corrode anytime soon. But galvanic corrosion can always be an issue due to the wet conditions. However I can't see that effecting the shaft or locking tapper because they are exerting so much force in to the end caps that there is no space for water. Im sure water can find its way to most other parts but the actual friction area of the bushes will be water tight. water can however find its way in to the hub tube so if I go back and find it has filled with water I will put in some drain holes to let it out. Thanks for the comment.
This is the way how we all learn, i am sorry for you it was a costly one, but respect, you stood for it , and resolved it, that is how a true man behaves!
I have watched your amazing achievements over the year's especially the hydro power projects, the water wheel wá incredible i felt so sorry when the drive shaft failed but i know with your determination and skills you will overcome the problem. Thankyou for sharing your journey yours is the best you tube content as good as the Fred Dibnah documentaries.
I'm a chartered mechanical engineer and experienced expert in the fatigue mode of failure. I would say that the failure was not due to a lack of strength, or due to cracks causing stress concentrations which cause lack of strength. I expect that the issue is cyclic fatigue failure. Tiny weld cracks grew due to rapid cyclic service, and after each rotation of the wheel the weld cracks grew a tiny bit more until there was no material left (i.e. cyclic fatigue failure). Pre-heating the weld would have created a starting point of having much smaller cracks which would have increased the life from one month to perhaps six months. If you had welded your new larger shaft with pre-heat, it would fail due to fatigue at a year or so. Any welded shaft (or mechanical equipment) which has rapid cycling at moderate stress range (across the cycle) will fail due to the growth of the cracks in the weld, even if the cracks are made very small by using an optimum weld technique. Even an unwelded shaft will fail due to fatigue at some point if the cyclic stress range is greater than half yield. The starting crack for an unwelded shaft is the material grain boundary. The fatigue life of your new unwelded shaft will be many decades,v if crack don't grow due to corrosion. I made a similar comment three months ago. I've made a few equivalent naive mistakes to your one, over the years. They are a immensely good learning experiences. Mine were mainly due to underestimating weld distortion of precision machined components.
WOW Chris. Came across you video. And the fact yiu are humble will take you many places. Wish we can have more tradesman like yourself. Congratulations to tour mother and father for doing such a great job. Well done to you. I hope you become a true youtube sensation and know you will be a great business man
Hi Kris, there's this german guy with a 10kw water wheel (Niederurff). He says there's no way around storing the shaft on hardwood. other water millers confirm this, too, he says. The wood absorbs the vibrations and thus reduces stress on the steel parts. He now uses ruby, before he had oak.
Machining a nice wheel hub would help a lot, I guess. Weld zone/heat affected metal likely flexed and fatiqued which then broke the shaft. Wheel hub from thick welded plates, a nicely machined hole, torque with woodruff key on both sides, should last forever.
Hey Kris, maybe next time consider using a taperlock bolted flange mount. Then machine say 25mm plate to fit in hub tube and locate the bolted flange of the taper lock central. Assemble the 2 plates in hub mounted on the shaft and weld them in. Basically like what you did but considerably cheaper, and lighter for assembly.
Kris I'm absolutely gutted this went like that for you but the most important thing is that everyone knows this was not a workmanship issue because we all know you would of done the math and that your work is top quality always. Don't beat yourself up pal because most people wouldn't even have the guts to do this type of thing and it may of cost you 1000 but at least now you know and let's be honest it would be strange if nothing went wrong in the beginning years so I hope your customer is a reasonable person and can understand this. You fixed it you stepped up for the customer and you'll be all the better for it pal. Well done great job. Thanks for all the great content.
I can only speak for me, but if I was that customer, I would pay you for the extra you spent in 'material', at least! You have put so much work in this waterwheel and generator.
I feel your pain. There goes not only any profit you ever managed to earn but this will be an expensive loss. Multiple drive times back and forth, disassembly, remanufacturing the entire center shaft, more driving and reassembling. Not to mention to any of the electronic devices. Ouch! But your obviously a man of your word and word gets around about the quality of your work.
I'm sorry it failed and you had to go back and put so much effort into making the upgrade. Very much appreciate the effort and transparency!! This is not a shot at you, but this video reminded me of this saying. As they say, "There is always enough time to do it right, the second time."
Sorry it went wrong on you Kris,BUT… please don’t be so hard on yourself. You are a man of honesty and integrity. Everyone here likes and admires you!!!! Chin up mate!!!!
Good for you man, amazing to see a human these days that can admit a mistake but more importantly deliver a fix and not be afraid to show it! Awesome video! Thanks for sharing!
Great fix! I have seen bolts sheer but did not realize welding could weaken a shaft that thick. Years from now we'll remember the Harbour wheel.... not the prototype issues.
Kris, I've followed your videos because your honesty engages me. Being of strong enough character to admit your mistakes and learn from it is an admirable trait😊
A man who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Great cmt @steve.
Thx ✌🏻
The Expert dosen't make mistakes! They got to be an Expert by making all the mistakes where someone else didn't see. 😁
A man who talks in hackneyed and clichéd quotes never learned learned to think for himself and communicate effectively.
Kris didn't make mistakes.
Mistakes is a word armchair experts and know-it-alls use to feel superior.
He did things well in the first place and through experience learns to do better.
It's how people learn.
And those "men" are invading Europe.
No info is more valuable then field testing. Worked for Caterpillar for years. They spared no expense in designing new equipment. Yet before a new model came put they would send "field follow" machines out to certain customers for them to run for 2k hours then they take the machines back tear them completely apart and inspect everything. In that 2k hours it's amazing at how much stuff fails! Even things and designs that have been used for years but because of one little change it can cause downstream issues. I think you did fantastic and I even thought it was a little overkill the first time you built it! So I definitely think you got a great design now and only can improve from here!!!!
The Old Miller's' spent years learning how their one mill worked. Get new kit , takes time to work out problems and tune the gear.
Great infomation about Cat. I heard the same thing about Rolls Royce: They would run their Merlin engine until something broke, fix it, then run the next iteration until it broke.
Sorry this went wrong on you Kris-but the fact you reasoned out a proper solution is testimony to your skill and intelligence. Keep up the great work.
It takes a real man to admit that he made a mistake, and comes to solve the problem without handing over a bill.
I CAN NOT SAY IT BETTER
Fair play Kris for going back, sorting any issues out and being open about it. You should be humble for sharing your problems and fixes
Great video as always. Been there and done that. Those that build, make mistakes. Keep ‘em coming. I like seeing the creative solutions that you come up with.
I'm late, but. pre-heating of any high yeld metal by thickness allows the metal to rid moisture from base metal( the shaft) weld area will causes hydrogen if not pre-heated in the weld area inside the base metal (the shaft) that causes micro crack and failure down the road
Don’t beat yourself up Kris. This is still an amazing project. Putting your hand up to admit there’s a problem, working out the cause, working out a solution, AND documenting the whole process; shows you in a better light than some companies 100 times your size.
Your customer also seems to be a good egg. Keeping you informed of an emerging issue, and having faith in you to resolve it!
Awesome job! 👊🏼
You show your character in honorably taking responsibility in the failure and the repair. Great job!!
There are only a few people like you Chris left in this country. Thank you sir for being a man of your word, I hope this video pays you back 1000x what this repair cost you. God bless.
Snowball engineering also!!.
This country?? The world!!!!!
I was a certified weld inspector and I was going to say my guess was the shaft needed pre-heating. We had some big 4" shaft fail because of that exact reason. Good for you, you'll get it figured out. There is sooo much to know you can't be expected to know everything about everything right away.
So I guess the heat of the weld vs the cold inside would introduce internal stress into the steel?
I would agree however I would expect the shaft to break on the outside where the load is. I think the end cap was too thin and cause the shaft to flex until it broke. I would add a center support inside the tube after seein this.
@@hayd7371 No, not really stress. You know when knife makers quench the blade to make it hard? They heat it up and then dunk it into oil or water to rapidly cool it. This rapid cooling retain a specific crystalline structure of the steel that would of been lost if it was allowed to cool slowly.
When you weld chunky stuff, similar thing happens. The weld concentrates heat in a relatively small area, and when you're done, the surrounding cool area sucks the heat out from the weld, basically quenching the welded area. There is some stress from the rapid cooling, but the reason it fails under load is because of that locked in crystalline structure that makes it hard and brittle.
@@janosszabo98 'would of'???
@@YoDidz Hey grammar police, how you doing? Can you please let me go with a warning? I really don't need a ticket right now.
I like the way you are never beaten Kris. You just get on with it and try again. All part of the learning process.
Now this is what you call customer service ! Nice one Kris
Cusomer service? To fix what he should have made properly to begin with? I don't think so.
@@Manigo1743 uhh.. yea, that would be customer service.
@@Manigo1743 Bad customer service would be making a mistake and not fixing it, he had clear communication with the customer and fixed his honest mistake (One that many professionals also make) free of charge.
I would encourage you to embrace any potential for being wrong and have The Bravery to put yourself out there . That sort of authenticity in these videos is what makes them invaluable. If you do something and it's completely wrong and you're so certain that it's alright and then you show us in fact that you were mistaken and you discover what the truth is, I can't imagine anything more valuable on the planet than seeing that entire thing play out. I thoroughly enjoy watching all of your videos but the ones where things didn't go right and you work through the process of how you thought about it and what you had to do to fix it are the best videos you have in my opinion.
Thank you.
you learn more from failure than from success. probably why humans experience negativity more than positivty.
Mate, this had to happen, the learning curve here is steep, but 1/2 million viewers have learnt something with you on this journey. So impressive how you improved this prototype build. Kudus to your client as well, their patience, their enthusiasm, this waterwheel free energy technology is adictive.
A man that can talk about his mistakes and fix them is a real man! Your customer service is what your business make stand out! Thanks for taking us with you and thank you for your honesty.
All your fans know that you are an honest and talented chap. 👍
Hats off to you for owning these issues and hats off to the customer for being so understanding. This is how progress is made and I would hope that in the long run its beneficial for both this customer, your knowledge of the craft and your ability to continue this kind of work. Its bloody fascinating to watch anyway!
I worked as an Industrial
mechanic, millwright for 50 years that is the correct design same as on large exhaust fans
, good rebuild.
I'm keen to understand how the new system locks the wheel in place on the axle. My idea would have been to machine a floating hub that the wheel can bolt to, in the same way a car wheel bolts to an axle. The "wheel nuts" only deal with the rotational force, and the wheel resting on the hub on the axle handles the weight of the wheel.
@@Richard_AKL The hubs are tapered has you tighten the bolts the tighter it grips the shaft.
This entire project has been a pretty big learning experience for you, that's for sure.
The waterwheel build really makes you appreciate how much work goes into building them. Imagine trying to do this back in the day from wood and no metal machining equipment.
Makes you wonder how much went into making the earlier water wheels. There had to be quite a bit of trial and error to get the wooden water wheels balanced and running reliably for longevity! Very god video series and though it was painful your approach to making it right for your customer was spot on Kris!
Your honesty and character are beautiful and a large part of why I enjoy your channel. Keep up the great work!
As an engineer I really appreciated this fault finding and fixing video. Kudos to you Kris for a great approach to solving this issue, professionally with great workmanship. Exactly the reason why your channel is one of the few I have the notifications bell set on. Keep up the great work!
Kris, you are a noble and refreshingly accountable gentleman. Set-backs sure do allow a person to improve designs, as frustrating as they are. Thomas Edison sure had his share, and today we are so grateful for his perseverance. Best of success to you, Kris.
I just watched all Water Mill Videos at once. That was a pain in the But. I hope and wish that everything is going well and that you don't have to put your hands again on that Wheel.
All the best Dude.
My experience in the TX oilfield makes me think the failure was out-of-round / harmonic issues. We used to see similar failures and new equipment now includes inline rubber dampers (Dorman 935-101) and our failure rate has gone down drastically. Your channel is an inspiration, keep up the good work.
In this case I do think it was the weld, I was even slightly surprised at the relatively small size of bearing block used considering the weight of the water and load characteristics.
Resonance can tear apart huge equipment and lead to substantial damage and loss, you are right.
Resonance could be measured at defined rpm and logged.
It is good practice to do so as it makes planned maintenance possible when there are indications of failure.
Not sure what the devices cost nowadays, they used to be very expensive but nonetheless useful.
Especially in an environment like you described, or a chemical plant where the procedure is used for pumps.
Engineering, Physics, and Machining fix everything. I enjoy watching your mistakes not because I don't make my own, but because I am also a member of the "My Fault" club.
Yep.
And seeing all this knowledge put it in practice makes me respect a lot more the ancient craftsmen.
With all the technology and knowledge at the tip of the finger, doing it properly takes so much time and effort.
Imagine doing this centuries ago. And they did it.
Thanks for being honest and genuine about your work! Not only is a good thing for your channel, but you're also helping us to avoid those mistakes!
Your honesty and humility in the face of this monster engineering challenge is truly inspiring. As my dad once told me a man who never made a mistake never did anything.
It is nice to watch somebody who is happy and willing to see their mistake and also spend the time and money to rectify it. Hats off to you fella, the customer make a great choice hiring you. 👍
Just now found your channel earlier on your videos 9 months or so ago when you were actually building this waterwheel. Bro, you absolutely BEASTED this job, very very well done, awesome job!
It’s likely not the torque that killed it, but the bending of the shaft between the two bearings. The whole weight of wheel and water is on there, and rotating as well. Repeated bending -> fatigue break.
my thoughts exactly. Metal fatigue, rotating bending. Also the welds may be strong for static loads, but for fatigue loading they are much weaker than the shaft material.
Agree. Fatigue analysis in ships and large structures concentrates almost exclusively on welds, as they have a much worse fatigue curve than anything else.
Basically the fatigue cracks have already been initiated in the welds as there is no such thing as a crack-less weld.
So, preferably design the structure such that the welds are not in the main stress area of a repeated stress range, such as the surface of a rotating axle that is in bending (repeated tension-compression).
The repeated stress range opens up any tiny crack and propagates it through the structure until it fails.
You can design for it (ships have butt welds that run through the entire hull section) but the welds need a lot of attention and the rules take the fatigue into account.
For a shaft you could probably weld to it, provided you have a bulge on it (trumpet shaped on either end) where the flange connects, to take the weld out of the axle's stress range. That bulge may be fabricated by turning down a very large diameter axle to the shape you need (a lot of waste) or have a forging (expensive and maybe not for relatively simple engineering).
Your solution with a clamped collar does away with the welding altogether so your fatigue life is vastly improved, because you have no crack initiation.
Besides that you have done away with the stress concentration (which a welded flange on an axle is as well).
Well done, you've got a solid structure now I should think.
I would argue that the welds themselves and the material is perfectly fine. THe problem is his experience With welding. Depending on the material I'm going to say that he didn't pre-heat the shaft and surounding metal and then let it slowly cool down. When you don't pre-heat large or thick pieces of steel (specially harder ones) the main piece and weld will properly meld and be strong but because the rest of the shaft is cold it will rapidly pull the heat away causing it to essentially harden but ONLY at the welding area causing stress fractures.
Spot on.
My own thought would have been to construct the waterwheel to have received water from a millrace rather than over the water shooting over the top. But I am still appreciative of the corrective efforts made here.
I agree the weld probably created by a crack or undercut on the shaft and the cycling bending stress on the shaft caused a failure of the shaft. If you know someone who can model your new design and do a failure analysis, this may give you confidence that it will not have another failure. And may save you money in the long term.
Kris, I worked with an experienced carpenter once as a young guy. He asked me if I wanted to know the secret to becoming a great wood worker. With my full attention I said yes. He proceeded to tell me the secret to being a good tradesman is one who can solve his own mistakes. You got that covered! appreciate the honesty and walking us through the solution.
Fair play for being straight up and honest. The solution’s absolutely solid looking. Amazing skills.
This whole series was absolutely fascinating. Every aspect of the project is very interesting. Thank you.
Smart Move Kris! Live and learn they say. Thanx for taking us along for the ride.
It's called 'Field Testing' for a reason. This is where any design issues show themselves. Don't be let down by this, Kris, all inventors/designers go through this phase of product development. Rarely is a product perfect on the first attempt.
Glad we get to see the progression of development. All part of the process.
Cheers!
Known failure mode.... I don't pay for you to learn on my dime.
@@Failure_Is_An_Option Exactly!!
Above all else your integrity really shines through. I truly admire your work, but your work ethic and morals even more
What a lovely person you are, not only did you make something beautiful you made it work and fixed all the issues yourself.
Another testament to your integrity. I've heard it said by wiser men than myself that mistakes are an opportunity to learn something new. You have proven it to be true.
Rest assured you have a customer for life and solid reference for any future customers.. Doing what is right will pay off in the future.
Wonderful Chris. Such a great example of technical know how and skill - and of humanity.
Integrity, honesty, and hard graft or your hallmaks Kris. Excellent work, great engineering... Well done
Hi Kris, Large cyclical loads on a high-frequency rotating shaft is classic fatigue failure. The welding certainly would have contributed to the failure but if the shaft was never designed for fatigue failure it still would have broke, welded or not. Sizing for torque based on the smallest diameter dimension is only part of specifying the shaft.
Do you think it‘s ok now with 65mm shaft?
Well done Kris.........yet again.............. You didn't make any mistakes, you just gained the knowledge at a slightly slower pace than the work progressed, then you reasoned it out and applied it accordingly. ................Rome wasn't built in a day and considering everything else you are doing I think you're doing excellently. Keep it up it's still incredibly enjoying to see.
Outstanding work and always positive to acknowledge one's mistakes. A man who never made a mistake has never done anything. Thank you for this fascinating series of videos.
I Mac 1944.
You are an all round engineer Kris, wood, stone, hydraulic and metal of any kind, it's a pleasure viewing your work. Your honesty is a credit to you.
Nice to see a person like you honestly own up to a problem and the "fix" was educational for
all of us to see....well done!
Admirable work Kris. It’s really hard as a tiny operation to eat the costs of this kind of failure, and the fact that you present it all so transparently is a credit to you.
As they say, you live and learn, so hopefully this doesn’t happen in the future projects that must be coming your way.
Measure twice, cut once,, throw it away and start over. Every prototype is that way so I don't even swear to much anymore. Every would be designer/builder needs to watch this, thanks
And kudos to your customer giving you the ‘room’ to customise as needed to get the right product for their situation and when something that is so bespoke such teething problems should be expected. Well done for getting it sorted so well. Great advertisement for your business.
It’s not that you make a mistake that is important, it’s how you recover and remedy. Keep up the good work!
Its more important to show failures and "what could have been done better" in videos to show progress is about hard work and mistakes along the way. But my god man you are an inspiration with your absolutely mind melting variety of skills and abilities when it comes to building stuff.
A big learning curve. Well done Kris, taking the financial hit and putting it right is exactly how I would approach this. You're a good man.
Pretty amazing when you think about it. You have the ability to build almost anything. And you do it in a hand built shop of mud, straw, and wood, that is powered by hydro and solar. Plus, you're an incredible engineer and woodworker. There's a reason I wait for your videos to drop. Great job again Kris.
Chris, you have an amazing engineer's mind! Be encouraged! I am a registered professional engineer in the US and thought I would let you know how amazing and brilliant you are! Keep building and wisdom will continue to grow in you. You should consult with a structural engineer to help you estimate the normal shear loads and torsional shear loads which could be introduced on the center shaft should the bearings in pillow block fail. Keep up the good work.
So glad The Algorithm brought this back. Really enjoyed the original build, and great to see your integrity with the repair. I'm pretty sure you've got it right this time!
Amazing project,love how you show the highs and lows. Well done. Unfortunately shows how efficient the peloton projects are per pound and man hours compared to the water wheels
Back in the early days of steam a slack tolerance shaft to wheel was used, any gap was filled with iron filings an urine was poured on. When it came to time to scrap the wheel had to be cut off as the cut was so tight, this led to the expression A Piss Fit. The profit from your build is experience, good luck with your future projects and the barn build.
I agree, no use of fretting too much about the mistake - someone wiser than me realised that without making mistakes no one learns or grow. I enjoy watching and looking you work.
Making things right for your customers is the best marketing plan your going to ever need.
I totally respect a person who owns a mistake, doesn't dwell on it, and focuses on a better fix. 👍👍👍
well done. Took ownership, solved the problem. Great solution and customer service.
Excellent project review!
Thanks for sharing so openly.
Too often BLOGers post the success and leave out the realities...
BTW: soapy water might be a better libricant.
Natural orange soap surface cleaner does a great job or Windex...
And yes, it is messy...
I like the new no-weld design, it’ll make it easier to change out parts for future revisions of the water wheel.
Your skill and integrity is commendable. Well done Kris.
That was bad news, Kris. All these things are sent to try us. But you stood up to it despite it being soul destroying. Well done, Sir. It's now a belt and braces job. Amazing skill and perseverance👍👍.
I've just started watching some of your videos, I spent 35 years as an agricultural engineer, in my time I serviced and fixed a lot of combine harvesters, when I saw you weld that shaft, I was thinking why doesn't he fit a big boss each side and just use a tapered key to hold it tight.
It's not so common nowadays to use such stuff, but have seen well over 500hp going through such stuff and very few failures.
Anyway, no one gets everything right first time, and I like a man who can overcome problems, there's not many left around nowadays.
Great channel by the way 👍
Admire your honesty Kris. I'm not sure that "It looks like we've cracked it" was the best choice of words when you fixed it though!🤣
hah! I went wide eyed when he said that! You gotta be kidding me!! .. oh.. wait... Common Vernacular Barrier! Fwewf!
Making one-offs and prototypes is always a learning experience. I certainly couldn't have predicted any failure from watching your original build but the new solution you've come up seems to have addressed the welding issue perfectly. I hope TH-cam helps to compensate you for your losses in this development. I have to say, it's been absolutely fascinating and I only wish I had a stream passing alongside my house because I would really love one of your waterwheels.
Sorry to hear that it happened, kuddos for the transparency 🌷👍
In Nova Scotia they where trying to harness the ocean currents their first try failed in a simulator way they had to beef up the structural strength to have it last ! IMO
Use the friction coupler at work and we always grease them up well, and looks like your turndown shaft support could do with collar supports to the main backing disc to stop any movement, looks amazing well done
Amazing Kris! nearest thing to precision engineering in a wattle and daub cowshed, absolutely remarkable. Your problem solving skills are a match for your humility, keep pushing the limits and sharing this wonderful content.
This is why I love this channel. If you don’t make mistakes you don’t learn. Being a tradesman for over 40 years I’ve made many! Great to see the thought your thought process in redesign.
I appreciate your honesty and unflinching analysis of what went wrong. Such a valuable trait for a person to have. I know you are beating yourself up even now but I bet your customer has a smile on their face.
Sumitomo sells planetary and other gearsets for industrial applications that would drive a wheel 10x that size. You can usually source them from factories and other heavy industry facilities that are making capital upgrades. In the U.S. I snagged a 649:1 gear reducer for a 5.33HP 1750RPM motor for $350 with delivery a few years back.
great Video well done to sorting the problem out.very skilled and talented glad we still have people like you in the UK
Hi kris , the honesty and transparency of the engineering failures and the way you find the solutions is admirable , keep up the good work mate
I'm glad there are still people like you. Thanks for your honesty 👍🏻
Well done Kris I admire your honesty and if future customers are watching it will stand you in good stead
Great job fixing an issue and your honesty is very refreshing in these times%!!!!
Very impressive work to stand behind your product and deliver for your customer. One thought about your new system. You have a couple of friction fits where you have a tiny gap between the shaft and the part that goes around it or the part that goes around it and goes to the hub. While these gaps are indeed tiny they're still large relative to water molecules. Water molecules love to get into anywhere. So a core question that is worth asking is what is the electrical potential for oxidation between the two steels the shaft and the hub and the hub and the water wheel. If you have a galvanic potential between those two you will have the opportunity for corrosion. The corrosion product is bigger than the steel and so things will tend to want to lock up. Part of that is good it flugs up the gap part of that is not so good makes it almost impossible to get things back apart. To whatever extent you can protect the tiny gaps from water intrusion would be a bonus. Whatever extent you could use steels which avoid the corrosion is a bonus point. Of course it's been installed for 2 months now and the environment is doing its best to cause problems and you're doing your best to keep it from doing that. Best wishes I enjoy your work greatly I'm impressed by your engineering skill
Hi, Thanks for that. I dont think I will get much corrosion from the locking bushes to the shaft or end plates. the locking bushes are coated and the shaft having such a high amount of chrome in it means it won't corrode anytime soon. But galvanic corrosion can always be an issue due to the wet conditions. However I can't see that effecting the shaft or locking tapper because they are exerting so much force in to the end caps that there is no space for water. Im sure water can find its way to most other parts but the actual friction area of the bushes will be water tight. water can however find its way in to the hub tube so if I go back and find it has filled with water I will put in some drain holes to let it out. Thanks for the comment.
This is the way how we all learn, i am sorry for you it was a costly one, but respect, you stood for it , and resolved it, that is how a true man behaves!
Well done mate! ‘Experience is the best teacher but the school fees are high’.
I have watched your amazing achievements over the year's especially the hydro power projects, the water wheel wá incredible i felt so sorry when the drive shaft failed but i know with your determination and skills you will overcome the problem. Thankyou for sharing your journey yours is the best you tube content as good as the Fred Dibnah documentaries.
I'm a chartered mechanical engineer and experienced expert in the fatigue mode of failure. I would say that the failure was not due to a lack of strength, or due to cracks causing stress concentrations which cause lack of strength. I expect that the issue is cyclic fatigue failure. Tiny weld cracks grew due to rapid cyclic service, and after each rotation of the wheel the weld cracks grew a tiny bit more until there was no material left (i.e. cyclic fatigue failure). Pre-heating the weld would have created a starting point of having much smaller cracks which would have increased the life from one month to perhaps six months. If you had welded your new larger shaft with pre-heat, it would fail due to fatigue at a year or so.
Any welded shaft (or mechanical equipment) which has rapid cycling at moderate stress range (across the cycle) will fail due to the growth of the cracks in the weld, even if the cracks are made very small by using an optimum weld technique. Even an unwelded shaft will fail due to fatigue at some point if the cyclic stress range is greater than half yield. The starting crack for an unwelded shaft is the material grain boundary. The fatigue life of your new unwelded shaft will be many decades,v if crack don't grow due to corrosion.
I made a similar comment three months ago.
I've made a few equivalent naive mistakes to your one, over the years. They are a immensely good learning experiences. Mine were mainly due to underestimating weld distortion of precision machined components.
WOW Chris. Came across you video. And the fact yiu are humble will take you many places. Wish we can have more tradesman like yourself. Congratulations to tour mother and father for doing such a great job. Well done to you. I hope you become a true youtube sensation and know you will be a great business man
Hi Kris, there's this german guy with a 10kw water wheel (Niederurff). He says there's no way around storing the shaft on hardwood. other water millers confirm this, too, he says. The wood absorbs the vibrations and thus reduces stress on the steel parts. He now uses ruby, before he had oak.
I do keep seeing this too - I'm curious what Kris and others here think about this.
Chris! Brilliant mate! Your videos are awesome, you are so smart and patient with your work. Well done!
Machining a nice wheel hub would help a lot, I guess.
Weld zone/heat affected metal likely flexed and fatiqued which then broke the shaft.
Wheel hub from thick welded plates, a nicely machined hole, torque with woodruff key on both sides, should last forever.
Hey Kris, maybe next time consider using a taperlock bolted flange mount. Then machine say 25mm plate to fit in hub tube and locate the bolted flange of the taper lock central. Assemble the 2 plates in hub mounted on the shaft and weld them in.
Basically like what you did but considerably cheaper, and lighter for assembly.
So glad to see u back
Kris I'm absolutely gutted this went like that for you but the most important thing is that everyone knows this was not a workmanship issue because we all know you would of done the math and that your work is top quality always. Don't beat yourself up pal because most people wouldn't even have the guts to do this type of thing and it may of cost you 1000 but at least now you know and let's be honest it would be strange if nothing went wrong in the beginning years so I hope your customer is a reasonable person and can understand this. You fixed it you stepped up for the customer and you'll be all the better for it pal. Well done great job. Thanks for all the great content.
I can only speak for me, but if I was that customer, I would pay you for the extra you spent in 'material', at least! You have put so much work in this waterwheel and generator.
I feel your pain. There goes not only any profit you ever managed to earn but this will be an expensive loss. Multiple drive times back and forth, disassembly, remanufacturing the entire center shaft, more driving and reassembling. Not to mention to any of the electronic devices. Ouch!
But your obviously a man of your word and word gets around about the quality of your work.
Love the fact you don't hide the mistakes ,makes this channel one of the best on TH-cam. Keep it up
My heart goes out to you. The engineering design and manufacturing of the water wheel has made great television.🤨🇦🇺
I'm sorry it failed and you had to go back and put so much effort into making the upgrade. Very much appreciate the effort and transparency!! This is not a shot at you, but this video reminded me of this saying. As they say, "There is always enough time to do it right, the second time."
Good on ya.
I hate doing jobs twice.
It is very demoralising.
But you’ve come through with flying colours.
You’re a star.
Sorry it went wrong on you Kris,BUT… please don’t be so hard on yourself. You are a man of honesty and integrity. Everyone here likes and admires you!!!! Chin up mate!!!!
Good for you man, amazing to see a human these days that can admit a mistake but more importantly deliver a fix and not be afraid to show it! Awesome video! Thanks for sharing!
Integrity. Well done. I’d hire you and I’d recommend your work more now than ever.
Great fix!
I have seen bolts sheer but did not realize welding could weaken a shaft that thick.
Years from now we'll remember the Harbour wheel.... not the prototype issues.
Kris, I've followed your videos because your honesty engages me. Being of strong enough character to admit your mistakes and learn from it is an admirable trait😊
Lucky it broke! The knowledge gained is invaluable! Bang up job sir!