@@joejoe2658 your a silly dude. The whole reason this video exists for you to click on is the TH-cam ad is included in it. Without ads, TH-cam videos with real quality would be about 10% of the size it is now on TH-cam. You are saying "I want roads without road construction occasionally slowing me down." Well too bad. You could always ask Arlo for a refund on your free content you clicked on.
Wind Waker might be called "Hyrule" but it was in practice anything but. There was no "Death Mountain", "Lake Hylia", etc. Its ocean setting felt so fresh to explore.
@@carlotta4th Yeah, though those games mostly created the illusion of all that activity. But there's no reason a game today can't have towns packed with characters with their own individual stories.
My single biggest gripe with Zelda comes from watching a behind the scenes for breath of the wild where they mocked one of the younger creators for coming up with the idea of having aliens visit Hyrule. You did that already! In Majora's mask! And it totally worked!
@Eckster I love how seamlessly they were able to tell the story, without it ever feeling out of place in a Zelda game. They absolutely could be so creative again
Also what are the Twili if not aliens? They're literally from another dimension and everyone but Midna looks weird as heck. They start using geometric portals to pull an invasion. What more did they need? Space ships?
That's like saying just because Link gets kissed briefly in Oracle of Ages, there should be an entire game based on making out as the focus. This is why we should leave Hyrule, so the series can stay high fantasy in other kingdoms beyond it, without turning Hyrule into Metroid or Grand Theft Auto. Tears of the Kingdom already went too far with unfitting vehicles.
My idea: You're in a kingdom with a Hyrulian embassy and town. You are Link, sent from Hyrule, to a new kingdom with a new culture and story. That way it's connected while still being a new world.
Could be about trying to ally with the new kingdom but perhaps a person or group tries to create chaos/take advantage. Would it take place in both connected kingdoms? Only in the new?
that was pretty much my idea like maybe the game starts in hyrule castle and someone tells link why he needs to go outside hyrule for his mission then it cuts to a montage of link leaving hyrule and riding a horse through a long desert of nothing until he gets to the new kingdom idk, that's just my idea
I wouldn't count Wind Waker. Yeah it's technically Hyrule, but you can barely tell and it isn't relevant until later in the game. It's different enough to count as a new place, considering the actual Hyrule is deep under the water.
Yea sounds like youtubers sometimes be scraping the bottom of the barrel for making yt content. Nearly all POI's in wind waker are exclusive to wind waker lol where's the windfall island in ocarina of time?!?!?😂
It is highly implied that windfall island is just kakariko village. Especially when you consider that Mrs. Marie is a Sheikah, with her Sheikah symbols on her clothing and her private island with the gauntlet like labyrinth under her house which is also hides a triforce shard/chart and she is the key to obtaining the hero's charm, which is also just 2 Sheikah eyes.
Arlo actually messed up his throat because he got into a heated cookie eating competition with a friend of his and it didn't end well. He forgot he isn't in his 20's anymore which happens to many of us so it's understandable.
To me one of the most interesting things from any zelda games was ordon village from twilight princess. A new region of hyrule with its own patron deity/light spirit. It was on the otherside of the forest, technically outside of hyrule. Just the idea of neigboring lands instead of hyrule existing alone in its own void has always been cool.
While i completely agree that we need more variety, i don't think it's totally fair to call Skyward Sword and Wind Waker setting "Hyrule again". Seeing the "ancestor" of familiar locations is an interesting spin on the usual Hyrule, and other commenters already talked plenty about WW. Also Triforce Heroes takes place in a neighboring kingdom, not Hyrule, but yeah it doesn't really count in this discussion because it's basically a spinoff (i know Nintendo itself disagrees, but come on), it's mission based instead of exploration based, so its setting isn't particularly relevant to this discussion
Yeah, TfH was some sort of sidequesty fever dream. A Link that we've never played as in any other Zelda game wandered off to some place called Hytopia and played hero with either a pair of Link cosplayers or a pair of magical doll imitations of himself (depending on whether you were able to play multiple or got subjected to their trashy failure of an attempt at single player (single player is the only way I ever got to play it and ever will get to play it, and it was AWFUL. FSA did the multi-body single player infinitely better than TfH did, I only played FSA single player as well and I thought it was great)) and the plot was like something out of some random ass filler episode of an 80s anime show where it's just the lamest villain pulling off the lamest evil scheme.
Thanks for bringing Skyward Sword to the conversation! It came to mind immediately for me. That origin of Hyrule is definitely very different enough for me to feel like it’s unique and mystical.
I would definitely say that Wind Waker takes place in Hyrule* with a big fat asterisk. Half the game, you don't even know you're in Hyrule. It's completely different.
You are also kinda just "above" Hyrule. The nation Hyrule doesn't exist any more, the the land that was called Hyrule isn't land anymore, the people living above what was formerly known as Hyrule do not even properly remember it anymore. Hyrule in Windwaker is even less existent than the Roman Empire today. And like this "sick of Hyrule" kinda is just a "sick of always the same concepts" and Windwaker doesn't really use the same landmarks and goes out of it's way to tell a story different to typical Zelda stories, where a key story point it letting the last remains of Hyrule, the only parts that where unable to move on (The King of Red Lions and Ganon), behind.
Only if you've never played Ocarina, the feel of the first two dungeons is so similar to ocarina in feel that honestly it felt like Hyrule, and the deku tree kinda cinched it for me.
I'm not sick of Hyrule myself, but I understand the frustration for those who are all about discovery and wonder. In BOTW, the moment you see the volcano in the distance, you know it's going to be Death Mountain and you know there are going to be Gorons there. I get that, but it doesn't bother me. They could stand to bring back some of the older races though. I'm sure seeing Rito in BOTW was a surprise. More stuff like that.
I think it’s simply that Zelda is allowed to be this way. But if it does, it’s not very appealing to plenty of people. Those people are free to ignore the game as they would anything else that doesn’t appeal to them. I’m still interested enough in this series to play the games, but way less interested than I once was, and I could see myself not playing them in the future because what would I be getting out of that? They’re not THAT interesting if they rehash most of their ideas from here on out. That’s why Zelda, and other series, need to keep evolving in some way.
I think the main issue here is that with BotW, TotK, Link between Worlds and now Echoes of Kingdom they really milked Ganon(dorf) and the world of Hyrule to a point of unsatisfiying repetitiveness. I think that feeling comes mostly from BotW and TotK having no real time story for the most part thus the actual story is pretty much told by exploring the world and interacting with your surroundings. Zelda being a adventure game lives mostly from, well, the adventure and if you already know that on the bottom left there is a desert with strong women that hate men, how much of an adventure does the world really offer then? You can have a good time in your home town you know every corner of, but can you still have an adventure? However i really don’t think we have to worry too much about the next Zelda title. They‘ve managed to make TotK run on a fancy Toaster of a hardware and games like AC Black Flag are also almost a decade old, leading me to believe that creating an open world game you once again explore the seas is a likely possibility.
I'd even settle for a compromise and be cool with the classic Zelda races being reimagined in new areas. Rock eating Gorons don't always have to be stuck on a Volcano, maybe they could have a village deep within a sprawling cave system to be different, or maybe have some Zoras camped out in a lush green marshy swamp village instead of a pristine blue lake just to mix it up a little.
To be honest, apart from games which use very similar copies of the map (LttP/LbW BotW/TotK) every iteration of Hyrule is so different that they're not really the same place. If you didn't have names like 'Hyrule Castle' and 'Kakariko Village' would you even be able to tell that OoT and TotK were supposed to be set in the same place?
Exactly. So why then the same names? For me the key point is this. Remove old names. Remove old character designs. Heck ok we cant really get rid of Zelda... or wait we can.. Links awakening did it. Just make a game that do not have any refences to Hyrule. Thats it. Can it be so hard?
@litjellyfish I know that there's technically a timeline which slots all these games together (mostly) but I prefer to think of Zelda as what it's called - a legend. We're having the same story told to us by different storytellers, like the Legend of Robin Hood. Sometimes Sherwood Forest looks one way, sometimes it looks another, depending on the storyteller. Sometimes we hear about Robin's noble past, sometimes the stories take us to the Crusades or fighting the French,, but the core Robin Hood legend involves some version of Sherwood Forest, the Sheriff of Nottingham, Friar Tuck and the Merrie Men... Zelda might take us to Kohilint or Termina, but the core is always going to be Hyrule, zelda and Ganon
@ yes and this is what i challenge like in the video. Why does it need to be this? Do t you like in the video get bored? (Apparently not as this is why Nintendo does this 😅) Like I fully get you. I also want some familiarity but as in the video I feel it tend risk to get to stale if we don’t at least have some new “sidetracks” every 5 years or so :)
@ I am also not caring at all about the timeline. I fully agree with you about the legend(s) I just feel there is to little spread of those legends. To take your example. I want more crusade stuff or about his child-hood (pun intended 😂) Like on of my favorite movies is Robin and Marion - if you have not seen it then it’s a must watch, I truly promise that to you :) Also in the time of YT comment hate. I really love how nice and non defensive your reply to me was. It really made my start of the week 💚
@@Xonequis Same! Everyone was talking about how dark it was, but when I played it it just felt... Meh? Like, it's not even darker than OoT, let alone MM!
In TOTK, Yona mentions that she's not from Hyrule but from a distant kingdom. This could be a good indication that the next 3d Zelda game could visit that area.
Really hoped that tears would push the boundaries out a little. A successful kingdom should have some kind trade routes with other kingdoms or something.
It would be neat if they did a Mario Odyssey. New species, old species redesigns, and some old species around. Like, the Zora in a brand new place. In that Yona Kingdom. I believe she's a princess or royalty of a kingdom or principality of Zora. Possibly under a greater kingdom/empire like Hyrule and their Zora are. Neat to know that Zora aren't only in the Kingdom of Hyrule. What kind of magic could be outside of Hyrule in an unrelated Kingdom?
I've thought for a while now that a story where Ganon was a good friend or mentor to Link before their cursed Fate's take hold of them could be really good.
@@joshuapettis8771 I've been developing a story similar to that, I'm trying to work out reasons that Ganondorf would want to be king. It always bugged me the games never explain it. All I really have so far is that king or possibly the prince of Hyrule (from Zelda 2) keeps kicking the gerudo out of the fertile lands of Hyrule. Also they keep stealing their women for indentured services and the Hylean brothels. Supposedly there's a legend of a great evil rising from the desert. Hyrule's treatment of the desert dwellers makes the rising evil a self fulfilling prophecy. Gameplay will mostly be riding around the edge of the desert with Dorf (since he hasn't met Ganon yet) searching for food and supplies to maintain your small village. There'll be basic recon, rescue, and monster hunting missions picked up from a mission board in the town. Dorf is German for village, so maintaining a desert homestead will be the main focus. IDK, just figured I'd try to put together a basic Indy game to tell the story, since Nintendo is never going to. For copyright purposes we'll call the princess Shmelda, but you usually see her dressed as the ninja Meek 🤣 the player character would either be Lank or Lenk whichever is more popular.
The opposite was true for Mario. "This ain't the mushroom kingdom really." What were the themes? Say it with me, grassland, desert, sea, mountains, sky, lava. For me I don't mind. "Death mountain, Zora's domain, Lost woods, Kakariko Village, Hyrule castle." As staple locations. (Gerudo desert joins later) The problem is they haven't made these things super interresting in a while. Every itteration in 3D kakariko is completely different from the last. The 1st was a mountainous town with a graveyard. It's 1st appearance in 2D was the only town in the game and it was next to the woods. Then we got TP with a mining town build into the foot of the mountain with a western vibe (till hidden village confirms it more). Breath of the wild? Ninja village in some mountains, away from the foot of death mountain. The hyrule fatigue more comes from the fact of: Echoes of Wisdom used the LttP map AGAIN but expanded it. And ToTK used the same map as BoTW but with a few extras.. (and those extras feel... "eh" ) You are done with the sky islands in no time and the underground is... boring....It feels like it lacks an idenity except for a few choice locations. I'll name a hyrule you skipped over but is WAY different from any other of it's kind. "Minish Cap" It still has Lake hylia and hyrule castle. But death mountain? No it's waterfall hills and Mt Krenel. We get a swamp... A SWAMP IN HYRULE.. We had swamps before in 2D zeldas but not like this. We also go into the clouds! WHAT?! The last game I want to mention is Four Swords Adventures.. wich I believe is as far as we can get out of Hyrule for biomes. We got, plains, caves, ruins, forests of darkness and light, death mountain, gerudo desert, the frozen wastes, simple towns, bigger towns, dark towns, TWO WAYS OF INTERACTING WITH HYRULE CASTLE AS A DUNGEON! (1 by just busting in , the 2nd sneaking in), coast lines and so much more. BoTW/ToTK tried it's best to get every lil inch of Hyrule styling in.. by even adding in a JUNGLE! And yet.... I don't feel anything for it. Cause that jungle... has no main quest value in either game or a dungeon laying there. LIKE WHY?! In BoTW you have 0 reason to travel to the southeast ever...for story reasons. And I think this is where hyrule fatigue really comes from. Since that's how I got my wind waker fatigue. "The ideas don't feel done right." Yes I am dissing wind waker here, but i feel like the game wasn't fully there "yet". I await the full feeling of the maximum amount of dungeons of wind waker and what else it can bring. (I have modded versions in mind) But in the end... Hyrule is still a fine setting. The problem is how we been interacting lately with it.. we aren't taking in the areas anymore. The last two games litterly gave us tools and said: "Go ahead.. break the game.. have fun." And suddenly these cool locations become more a haze. insted of.. "I remember this puzzle for a heart piece climbing up on death mountain." It became.. "I went up death mountain, saw a heart piece and grabbed it using X" While cool.... it already makes it more misty to think of it.
OoT is still the GOAT and my mind can never be changed. MM is a close second for me personally, and I must also give props to BOTW because it was the first Zelda game to make me feel that childlike sense of awe and enchantment that I hadn't truly gotten from a Zelda game since OoT
I think that they need to revisit "New Hyrule" from Spirit Tracks. I feel like there is so much lore that could be built from that land, new villains, new locations, new stories. new lore... would be very interesting to explore the origins of Malladus or perhaps other spirits in that new world.
I really want a game set where Link and Tetra discover it. It can explore cool mechanics of building this civilization, try the train mechanics in a full 3d engine - What I'd most love to see though is a game with multiplayer for the whole adventure, where you can switch between Link and Tetra like a Lego game, with each having their own abilities, and it'd then open up tons more opportunity for some unobtrusive storytelling.
I feel like we already pretty much know malladus' origins. A sealed demon who possesses the guise of an oddly-coloured ginger man and turns him into a giant boar-like demon? Just sounds like the latest iteration of Demise's curse, albeit remixed slightly by the hiatus it took during the period where there was no fully fledged 'spirit of the hero' to fulfil the curse's prerequisite participants. Bellum, on the other hand, shares barely anything with Ganon or his origins. Even Oshus doesn't really know where it came from. We can assume it's a demon, but that's about it.
@@WasatchWind You could also lean more into Spirit Tracks and have a steampunk Zelda game in New Hyrule where the train tracks are kinda just your fast travel.
The thought of being sick of hyrule never actually crossed my mind to be honest. Aside from ALBW and TotK recycling maps which were already in the series before, it's not like the locations were ever actually the same aside from having recurring names. There were also instances especially in BotW which made use of the familiarity we as fans have with the series locales, like hiding places from older games in the map (e.g. the Ranch or the coastline stretch that was modeled after outset island), or putting a new spin on navigating the lost woods - both of which were SUPER endearing to me and wouldn't have been possible had we not seen these places before. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against breaking out of hyrule every now and then but I also wouldn't make too strong a case in favor of it. MM being my favourite Zelda game largely had nothing to do with it taking place in Termina, but more so because of its unique approach to storytelling and overall very dark and emotional content. For me they can go either way. As you already said, some of the recursion is pretty much baked into the lore of the series and I'd also take it a step further and say even into the title (A legend being a story passed on for a very long time is bound to have similar structural cornerstones and not deviate too much from its core).
I’m with you here. It never occurred to me to be sick of Hyrule because Hyrule is an ever shifting concept. Before Breath of the Wild, we had games like Skyward Sword (Hyrule doesn’t even exist yet) Twilight Princess (half the map is a crazy shadow realm) and Wind Waker (where the whole map is ocean). The post apocalyptic Hyrule of Breath of the Wild is as normal as this world as been since Ocarina of Time.
@@fdatab9314 Even with Majora's Mask where you are nominally not in Hyrule, you are in a location that matches the tropes of Hyrule so closely, that it is as much Hyrule as any of the other games anyway, given that they always make Hyrule slightly different
but that's the point, ToTK has truly jumped the shark with recycling the SAME Hyrule map with so many locations literally copycasted, only with different fetchquests and korok placements - which is SO not quality world building
Same. I think I _am_ sick of some Hyrule, but first, Hyrule has only been consistent between games in the case of map recycling (compare relative locations of stuff between Minish Cap, OoT, TP, and LTTP if you want a fun head-scratcher,) and second, I don't think most Zelda games suffer when you know the map. Two games _really_ suffer from map knowledge: BoTW and ToTK. I think it's probably because the map is such a prominent part of the gameplay. There isn't a strong narrative thread pushing you forward, and even the dungeons are built with the idea that you can break progression if you want. Result being that my first play of BoTW was like a month solid of keenly exploring the map and picking apart everything I could, every subsequent replay was dramatically faster because the map was way less interesting and all mystery was lost, and my first (possibly last) play of ToTK saw very little surface exploration. Sure, I looked for caves, but those are telegraphed so well that it's usually obvious where a cave entrance is. OoT? Exploration wasn't a draw for me there, and I replay it for... Can't really pin down an individual reason, so let's go with vibes. It felt like there were more angles for me to appreciate the game from than fresh blind exploration. Mostly same for my other periodic replays. FWIW, I'm not really sure I'll be replaying BoTW or ToTK in the 2030's like I've been replaying OoT, MM, WW, TP, LTTP and MC in the 2010's and 2020's. Maybe I'll forget enough for 'em to feel fresh, but I don't really count on it right now.
While I don't quite share the same level of exhaustion Arlo has with hyrule, I do strongly agree that Botw and Totk have essentially created the "Definite Hyrule" so to speak, such that I do not think another 3D game could make a Hyrule worth being in. We really have seen as much of this particular location as can be reasonably enjoyed. You really can only climb Death Mountain so many times before it stops being an event worth doing. I do think we're in need of a radical new local, maybe with some all new races and whole new landmarks. (I do agree with Arlo though, that I would happily play a third botw game if they Totally revamped Hyrule with Shekah and Zonai tech into a futuristic kingdom. Imagine the Botw map but with skyscrapers and air ships, I'd eat that up)
Honestly the locale will the big thing that’ll hold back any new world building the series tries to do if they stick with Hyrule, cus stuff like the Zonai is cool for what it is in TotK, but idk imagine what it’d be like if they created another race like them that managed to create a far off highly advanced city
I dont understand how people can say botw era hyrule is the peak of the series that cant be topped by another future 3D game... there are so many ways they could improve on what botw era hyrule granted, sure at this point they SHOULD make a game on another kingdom or land or parallel world... But they could also just make a new hyrule and make bigger cities, spread out enemy variety, improve interactions with constructuions (like the abilty to destroy structures), explore underwater, heck they could even flesh out caves and the skies even more. they can change the setting of hyrule too, imagine flooded hyrule or ancient hyrule but with the same expansiveness as botw era, it would be bassically Assins Creed black flag but in hyrule heck they could set a game in new hyrule, with their more advanced technology and explore that kingdom or they could have the original hyulre but in a future with new technologies, we know there was a time period where hyrule was extremely advanced as sheikah tech was part of everyones lives and very normalized, plus they could set a game in far future of botw era hyrule too but make so they advanced technologically, Purah does meantion that her plan is to make sheikah tech part of everyones lives so there is room for that hyrule is so flexible as a setting, they can even just connect hyrule to another parallel world like the dark world, twilight realm, lorule etc, make more parallel worlds that merge with hyrule in some way and makes exploration more varied. hyrule can definetly still be explored, reshaped, expanded or reused with a new twist, I think people are under estimating Nintendo especially since Nintendo is known for having eras of innovation and stagnation (look at the mario games, especially and the 2D and rpg games).
@ I mean, they’ve already done everything you described. They’ve already made bigger Hyrule’s. They already made a flooded hyrule. They already made a hyrule with an expanded sky, caves and mountains. They’ve already made Hyrule’s with alternate connected worlds. It really doesn’t matter if there’s room for expansion in hyrule, people are sick of Hyrule itself. We’ve seen the entirety of this kingdom almost thirty times. We’ve seen death mountain, lake Hylia, Zora’s domain, hyrule castle, Gerudo desert, we’ve seen it all. And if you make a game without any hyrule landmarks, you’ve essentially just made a new kingdom anyway. I myself would be fine with Hyrule again, but I would agree with the sentiment that series should move on. I think it’s time for a new kingdom, with a new history, new races, and in all honesty, a new villain. Null is a very good step in the right direction. I love basically every zelda game, but at a certain point there’s no point in exploring if it’s always a slight variation on a place you’ve already been to.
@MaxM210 they have not tho, where is under water exploration, huge cities, hyrule with destructible environments? Plus again they can make new connected worlds or bring them back with the same lvl of expansiveness from botw era, like this is very much a valid reason to make a game in Hyrule. Repeating that people are sick is just not a valid argument when most people dont even know if they are actually sick of Hyrule or just tired of botw Hyrule, nobody complained about echoes of wisdom map or said it was too stale... The fact that there is still room for expansion very much DOES matter since thats whats necessary to actually expand something (which should be quite obvious). Saying we have seen it all is kinda dumb when its literally just names, the zoras domain from ocarina of time, breath of the wild and echoes of wisdom are so different, they can literally just make another zoras domain, change the art style, maybe use the river zoras more. Like if the only thing making you sick of similar land marks is them sharing a name then you are just not actually sick of it. If we take an apple and call it apple then the next time I give you a pear and I keep giving new fruits but call it apple then the only reason you would be tired of it is because you are just sick of me calling every fruit an apple, sure you could be just tired of fruits but then you should try different food, which in this analogy you should just play other game franchises. Which the brings the point that your argument of "if you make hyrule without the land marks you might as well not call it Hyrule" quite irrelevant, since Nintendo has made Hyrule and took away land marks, not every hyrule has an zoras domain, or a gerudo desert or Hyrule castle, heck they can add new land marks and regions, akkala, and necluda were new regions, they could expand on those and then side line the rest. The fact that Nintendo has made basically entirely different lands and called it Hyrule (phantom hourglass, wind waker, zelda 2) means that yes, they can make a game without the major races or land marks and still call the land hyrule. Because in the ind It quite literally doesn't matter what the land is called as long as they can make a map thats interesting, fun and, innovative explorable. They can blow up and freeze death mountain and have its insides be warm creating various thermal zones where the weather goes haywire and has massive storms and tornadoes around it mixing the region into a chaotic land of fire, wind, ice and electricity, turn zoras domain into a massive underground water basin society where both the zora and a underground race live together, make gerudo desert into a lush jungle that is being degraded into a desert (like how it happened irl to the north of Africa), turn lost wood into a whimsical and quirky colorful forest like an alice in wonder land but junglepunk style where people get lost due to how weird the place is (instead of the usual cursed forest or seemingly normal but subtly cursed forest), lake hylia could then be on winter (or elevated due to weird geographic shifts) causing it to freeze and become a massive ice lake, they could even inovate on central hyrule and make actual large cities or even just varied vilages, heck maybe a special settlement like tarrey toen where people of all races can live comfortably symbolizing the unification of the kingdom, plus make more stuff like the great plateau too. Heck they could even give ganon or vaati or another demon king some sort of dark land, a region that is actually under their rule in the borders of Hyrule and give a proper society to the monsters like bokoblind, lizalfos etc, as plenty of games hint at them actually having their own societies and settlements plus actually being an intelligent but that they deliberately follow and serve demon kings because its within their nature but they are just as capable of betraying their kind and finding love and meaningful interactions when given the opportunity (which has also been shown in the franchise too). Hyrule is the center of creation, the sacred land that the Triforce rests, there absolutely is ways they can innovate and explore it, be it by using different time eras, natural disasters or parallel world that merge with it. The fact that can just get the gimmicks from the oracle games and make: a Hyrule where you explore the past (ss hyrule), present (normal Hyrule) and future (maybe modern setting or even cyberpunk style Hyrule), like time travel is still s viable gimmick in the series, nobody would complain about a MM style game with a time limit and all but set in Hyrule, you have to explore a big open map but you gotta have urgency or the world end, no more distractions with just drifting form the main story otherwise you need to reset your cycle and inventory... Or make a Hyrule that lets you shift seasons and control the weather so you can see the land go through multiple styles and how the different seasons interact with each region, active with lava and earthquake and inactive lush and green plus maybe frozen death mountain, have a gerudo desert that shifts between semi green and bountiful desert with oasises or just as dry, death trap of a land with basically no resources, lake Hylia that can freeze, flood with water or dry out a bit and expose more land, a lost woods that shifts between creepy deadly forest and magical fairy forest, by link controlling its weather and seasons Hyrule can be greatly expanded. Like bro, Hyrule can still be used plenty, I literally just gave out 3 or maybe 4 core sets of ideas that could basically all makeup their own zelda games and Im just a single guy, Nintendo has a whole studio full of people giving ideas and greater imput. Plus lets not forget there is still demand for flooded hyrule and demand to bring back twilight realm and lorule. The point is, let Nintendo cook, Hyrule is not a stale setting, if they want to make a game in Hyrule they will, if they want to make a new land they can do it too, they will prioritize fun at the end of the day so they will deliver a map worth exploring no matter what.
They already announced at some point that the botw/totk Hyrule is complete and they are going to do different Zeldas and links but the real question is........what is the new game going to be like. Will it be open world or will we go back to traditional semi linear (Majora's mask for example) or complete linear (like ocarina of time)? Only time will tell.
I honestly can't consider the world of Skyward Sword as Hyrule. If anything, it's proto-Hyrule, but certainly not a kingdom. It's basically an untouched land. The only familiar race that exists are the gorons and Impa, the lone Sheikah. There were no zora, no rito, no Gerudo, no kingdom. Wind Waker had a Hyrule, but it was underwater and the game was not played upon that land. It wasn't even referenced until the middle of the game. I don't think that counts. The Minish Cap had Hyrule Castle, but the land was not the familiar terrain that we are used to. I actually really love that game, so I had to point that out. That's a game that has the bane recognition of Hyrule, but in an entirely different setting...like they relocated the castle to a random location. It didn't even have Ganondorf as the villain! This is such a severely underrated game. 😢
gotta say, this is a rare occasion in which i respectfully disagree. i feel hyrule is one of the core zelda elements, along with link, zelda herself, ganon(dorf)/some other proper demise incarnation, the triforce, and the legendary sword. it just feels wrong when they forget these things in games, although the times they change these elements while not removing them are some of my favorite iterations! four sword put a fresh spin on the master sword while keeping the legendary feeling, and windwaker completely revamped hyrule, while making it still "hyrule". most games need more, but tloz for me, THRIVES on tradition. do they really need to step out of thier comfort zone? absolutely. i just dont think stepping out of hyrule is the way to go.
I do think just having another major human nation would be cool. Have Zelda out doing diplomacy or something. What I really specifically want is to have people that are totally out of the loop with the legend and have their own stories and heroes. Sure zelda and link save the world plenty, but what about threats in other places.
That’d be pretty cool. Or perhaps a time skip a couple of generations . I’ve really loved the idea of aging link up once and making him and Zelda relationship more platonic and knight ship in nature. She’s a budding princess he as to protect on one of the royal missions going sea bound but fails to do so. The game takes place in tracking her down in a mysterious new land
@hued2542 Kind of like Vander in Fire Emblem Engage. He didn't love toothpaste main character, but he did protect them, and the age gap was pretty wide. Would this world be parallel, real, or another dream like Link's Awakening?
Spending like 300-400 hours in BOTW and TOTK, I know Hyrule like the back of my hand. TOTK honestly kind of felt like "Cool, let's go visit this place we've already visited to see what's changed" rather than actually exploring. So yeah, I'm a little Hyrule'd out. But I'm a new fan, I haven't played all the old games so I don't even know what a non-Hyrule Zelda game looks like. I plan on going back and playing the old games sometime but haven't gotten to it yet.
People always talk about Majora’s Mask being “dark” or “mature”. That’s not why it’s great. It’s not great because it’s validation for 12 year olds, it’s great because it’s a beautiful work of art. Majora’s Mask is composed so beautifully in terms of structure, music, unique ideas and its abstract tone. The moment to moment writing is nothing special, but the context of it sticks with you. It’s worth experiencing for its own sake. And Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker are the same way, even thougy they don’t have the “edgy” acclaim of Majora’s Mask.
A non-Hyrule game looks just like a Hyrule game. I love Arlo but his opinions are often really dumb. (And maybe just for the sake of content). The fact of the matter is that the "fans" of Zelda think about things 100x deeper than Nintendo does. "Hyrule" is just a name. It looks and feels different in every incarnation unless it's a direct sequel, which only happens occasionally.
This whole point feels very.... stupid, to me. Are you telling me that Botw and Adventure of Link feel the same to explore becasuse both places are called Hyrule? Or FSA and twilight princess? Or OoT and SS? Or the Original and aLttP? Or like.... almost any combination of games????
You already know before you start the game what all the main locations are going to be so yes, there is less sense of wonder, the only different thing is how the paths are arranged.
@@LZ02-OVERTURE You already know what the locations are going to be because those are like... the enviroments... that exist. Mountains, forrests, lakes, oceans, deserts, fields, tundra, swamps, volcano. That's like... it. It doesn't matter what you call the map, those are the enviroments you are going to encounter. Spirit tracks is set on a new continent. Guess what you get. Forrest, tundra, volcano, ocean and desert. Oracle of ages is set in labryna. Guess what you get. Field, Mountain, forrest, ocean. Oracle of seasons is set in Holodrum. Guess what you get. Desert, forrest, field, Ocean, mountain, swamp. Maybe your point is, "Well Hyrule always has the same collection of enviroments in the same places," but that's just wrong. Echoes of wisdom, minish cap, and Foursword adventures all have swamps. But Echoes is in the bottom right corner, Minish caps is in the bottom left corner and Fourswords is just south of the center. Death mountain, appears in multiple Hyrules, but can be on the top left side, top right side, or in FSA at the top in the middle. And in four sword is 3 volcanos instead of one. Botw, totk, Echoes of wisdom, Windwaker, LoZ and adventure of link are the only versions of Hyrule with visible ocean. "Only differnt thing is how the paths are arranged" The paths and how they are arranged ARE THE MAP. What do you mean the ONLY thing. THAT IS THE WHOLE THING.
@@mrfox5117 Except they are not nearly the same almost ever. Botw and Totk share a map. aLttP and aLBW share a map. And Echoes of wisdom uses a lot of ALttP's map, but most of the game takes place in the new areas. That's like it. Depending on the game, the regions can be in entirely different places. Some have snow areas, some have swamps, some have more than one volcano. The only thing even remotely simmilar about them is that the places have simmilar names. Exploring death mountain in Minish cap is a completely different experiance to exploring death mountain in Twlight princesss, or Wind waker, or Skyward sword. Unless you literally just mean they look simmilar. Which they don't really. They mix up the art style fairly regularly.
@@Bubble-Foam That's entirely what the video felt like. "Hyrule, the setting of The Legend of Zelda, a story set in Hyrule, is overusing its own setting. The setting of Hyrule in games about the lands of Hyrule. That Hyrule. The Hyrule that's the setting of the games." Like... I'm actually confused, but we're all allowed our opinions. It's just a game after all.
Hear me out: Take us back to Termina, but Clock Town itself is the size of the entire Great Plateau, with the verticality and complexity of Hyrule Castle.
As much as I wish that would happen, Aonuma probably wouldn’t let it. Majora’s Mask was hell to make and he isn’t particularly fond of it. The only reason the 3DS version was made was because fans begged for it after OoT 3D.
Ermm... how about Nintendo creates a new world and story, like they did with Majora and Awakening, the best Zelda games. Instead of milking the already existiert worlds to death.
It’s funny how the pendulum swings. During the Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks/Skyward Sword era, I remember the fans wanted to return to the “classic” Hyrule with all the usual areas and races. Now after ALBW, BotW, TotK, and EoW, everyone wants to somewhere outside Hyrule. After the next few games outside of Hyrule, we’ll want to go back.
I think there's something to be said for Nintendo cribbing a few lines from, of all places, Bethesda. The Elder Scrolls games having a huge world to play with and set different games across are part of what make Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim feel like they're three distinctive games but also feel like they belong to a shared universe. Nintendo would do well by building out the world that Hyrule is clearly part but not all of.
Zelda fans are some of the most chronically dissatisfied people I've ever seen. Very odd given that their franchise is one of the only ones that has been consistently excellent for like 40 years. Yet they always complain.
@@MarkHogan994 I don't consider it a complaint as much as a wishlist... Nintendo rarely considers what fans actually want unless we are extremely vocal about it. We only got Twilight Princess because fans advocated for it.
@@MarkHogan994 This is why I HATE most Zelda fans and also because I find Zelda fandom annoying! The Zelda fans don't know how to decide whether they love or hate a game in the franchise, in this way, games like Zelda Wind Waker and Majora's Mask ended up being hated at first, but became loved over time; Skyward Sword, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and Tears of the Kingdom are controversial games that fans fight among themselves to say whether they are bad or good; and Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild are games that were loved but became hated/divisive. The Zelda fandom ends up having an annoying part of fans complaining about current Zelda games just because they "have no essence", a stupid complaint which makes the Zelda fandom become a Sonic fandom 2.0, since Sonic fans complain about the division of 3 formulas in the franchise (Classic, Adventure and Boost) and thus there are fans hating the boost formula; fans hating the Adventure formula; and fans hating the Classic formula. This is all stupid hate. And that's why the Zelda fandom, to me, SUCKS. I'm brazilian.
Huh, you know... I don't think I can agree with you on this one. Not that I think you're wrong, but because I constantly find myself overjoyed about being in Hyrule! Now that being said I do wish we could see more out of it than a simple recycling of previous versions, but let's be real here, it's always been on the simple side. Botw was the first to actually go above and beyond with Hyrule in a way I didn't expect, honestly. Honestly, what I think I'd love to see would be to have a game take place in not just Hyrule. A game where yeah Hyrule, and it's castle, are there... but you have the ability, nay the obligation, to go beyond the kingdom to either other kingdoms beyond or at least to untamed wilds that exist beyond it.
For example, in my honest opinion, I have 4 ideas for Zelda games I'd LOVE to see in the future even if I know I never will. The first being a game in the future of TotK, where there's no ancient tech, but tech they developed themselves, and there are kingdom(s) outside Hyrule. The second being a game set farther into the Child Timeline future, where it's like a thematic mix of Twilight Princess and something like Red Dead Redemption, with trains, guns, and horseback combat. The third is a game in the Adult Timeline, like a mix of Windwaker and AC4: Blackflag, where you sail the high seas off the coast of New Hyrule pirate style. Lastly, a game pre Ocarina of Time that is about the Interloper war talked about in Twilight Princess. In short, still taking place in Hyrule, but more so.
You know what would be cool. If they brought back the linked adventure across two games like the Oracle games. Like imagine two games that each have their own complete story, but import the data from one into the other and it unlocks items, dungeons, stoy events. It doesn't even have to be as complicated as shifting seasons and moving through time.
I think the problem might be the whole problem with Triple A games being so expensive to produce. It's too much of a risk to change such an integral part of the Zelda franchise. Which should open up for at least a top-down Zelda to do something a little more experimental with location and narrative, but who knows. Personally I've always wanted them to experiment more with location and narrative, always loved Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening, loved having Zant as a villain and was pretty disappointed when he was suddenly humiliated and it was revealed to just be Ganondorf again. I'd much rather see them revamp the location and narrative rather than, as in BotW and TotK, completely change the gameplay but keep the same Link vs Ganon in Hyrule thing.
I was suprised they introduced something as seemingly big and important as the Realm of Twilight and then... just forgot about it. Complete alternate dimension with its own race of people and ruler and everything, and yet it feels like they barely scratched the surface on it in TP. Would love if they brought it back again in some form.
This is part of why I love Midna so much. It's just the mystery of her homeland, and how little we know about it. Palace of Twilight, being a collection of floating islands in essentially a void, felt like we didn't get enough time to actually scratch the surface of stuff like culture, customs, what resources they have, agriculture/livestock, basically ANYTHING we've seen from all other races that have appeared. It just felt so laser-focused on the dungeon aspect that the untapped potential starts showing through the cracks.
I feel like part of this frustration is that the 2D games have not redesigned 2D Hyrule, in a long, long time, and that the last two 3D Zelda games have used the EXACT same world map. the only other modern seamless 2D Zelda Hyrule we have is from Minish Cap, which actually brought ALOT of interesting name and location differences to it! Very exotic really. Of course, there's... New Hyrule in the PH/SS games, but those aren't really seamless foot-travel worlds. On the other hand, BotW's map already used the rather conventional map layout from ALttP that clearly the Zelda dev team are rather fond of reusing... death mountain in the north, lost woods to its west, lake hylia below Hyrule Castle at the center, big Gerudo Desert to the South-west. Kakariko Village seems to be the only thing that moves around!!! It's really funny actually... I remember 10+ years ago when Skyward Sword had come out, there was all this confusion and frustration about how the land of Hyrule was meant to look and be laid out, they just seemingly kept changing the landscape and locations every which way throughout the timeline! We wanted them to have SOME sort of consistency! Back then we were begging Nintendo to 'please bring back Zoras, Can we please have some of the old enemies brought into 3D (still do), PLEASE can the Gerudo race be seen again in a Zelda game???' Now look at all the complaining, LOLOL. We only just finally got back the Deku race for the first time since Majora's Mask, AND in a 2D Zelda game!! Times change I guess.
I'm not sick of Hyrule in general but I do want a new iteration. Like what BOTW gave us. No more referencing LTTP's map. Give us a something new and fresh. Shake things up again. I think the one two punch of TOTK reusing BOTW's map and EOW using a LTTP inspired map (though not identical to it) was a one two punch of seeing familiar things. That said I have no objections to a new game set in a new setting either, I would have preferred TOTK to focus on a new kingdom (or at least a different time period or something) than rusing BOTW"s world fast forwarded a small handful of years.
@@Ironcabbit It could make for a good first step, though of course they'd need to flesh out and add more environments etc. But there are other things they could do too for new iterations of Hyrule. A more steampunk 3D zelda, exploring eras where things are very different. Just re-imagining the kingdom and adding new places and not just updating old ones etc. We see hints of more sci fi stuff in the past a lot, such as lingering Sheikah teck in BOTW, heck enven SS somehow has an ancient lost civilizations of or at least including sentient robots, and that's before Hyrule was ever founded. Seeing a part of the cycle where some of that tech is more current could be fun. A new open world 3D zelda doesn't have to feel derivative of BOTW's world if they put in the effort.
The game that tears of the kingdom was, was only possible because it built on botw. It'd have been a significantly smaller and less grand game should it have been somewhere new.
@@bobdylan1968 As someone who found the Depths and sky islands kind of half baked and didn't particularly care for Ultrahand/fuse as main mechanics, that doesn't sound like such a bad thing to me.
Better for them to creatively explore new kingdoms, than to be so bankrupt of ideas that they have to keep ruining Hyrule by making it more and more Sci Fi like Tears of the Kingdom.
@@Arcessitor are you serious? Is your brain that broken that you can't conceptualize other areas? I think you've been playing too much Zelda man. I didn't even mention tundra, valley, beach, jungle, caverns, swamp, grassland, haunted mansion, guard station; they could have a sky castle, they could have a futuristic setting, let the game take place during one of those advanced civilization periods, cyberpunk but Zelda. Let Link drive a motorcycle through the subterranean Goron city streets.
@@Gafafsg the trick to them not feeling repetitive anymore is that they take 5 years between games now. We have enough time to breathe. I've personally already gotten tired of doing the big four areas over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. (Every over is a different game, this is accurate 😉) Admittedly if botw3 had only the surface and fleshed it out even more thoroughly, I'd take that. My favorite part of tears was just re exploring the surface. The sky and depths were kind of garbage, really wasn't anything to do in either area. Literally all the caves all looked the same. I'd rather they just either push out the boundaries or fill in some more towns and characters to make it feel like a place where people actually live instead of an empty wasteland.
Only halfway through the video but honestly yeah, I would love some new names and elements in the Zelda franchise. ALBW and TOTK both using practically identical maps to previous games feels like that compounded it. I personally really like the flight, boat and train travel in Skyward Sword, Wind Waker, and Spirit Tracks (NOT Phantom Hourglass, redrawing those charts in a chase was hell) but it's been what a decade and a half since we had a real ocean region? We didnt even swim in Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword's water was both temporary and not an ocean, though the sand sea was great. I'd go for something to the tune of Snowpeak Manor but bigger, or lived-in underwater cities or like, a mysterious maze like the lost woods but its a series of wind tunnels you fly through (like Sky CotL cough)
I can't help but think of Forgotten Land during this video. Being the first fully 3D kirby, I don't think anyone would've been shocked to see typical Dreamland locations. And yet, HAL really went bold with the games setting, and it really paid off. Why couldn't Zelda's first playable appearance be in some weird, new place? If Kirby can do it, so can Zelda.
11:55 Put Death Mountain, Lake Hylia, and Hyrule Castle ALL IN THE SAME PLACE! The castle is carved out of the base of the mountain rising from the lake! Smallest open world yet, because they went all-in on density!
Was just thinking this lol. To be fair to Arlo though Yakuza takes its story way more serious then most zelda games in a way that it makes sense. Not to mention that Kamurocho always does an amazing job feeling filled with life even with such a small map
I love that this came out right around the time that I'm playing through Tears of the Kingdom. I've been playing on and off over the past year, revisiting areas from BotW and exploring the world for a second time. After a year of not being fully hooked I'm just now getting into it steadily to complete the major quests and the story. I intentionally stayed away from both games for several years just to ensure that Hyrule would feel fresh and new when I came back to it. But it doesn't feel new. There are new things to find, and there are new game mechanics to experiment with. There are new sky islands and new depths to discover. But on the surface of the map, I have never felt compelled to explore. I'm just there to collect what I need and unlock the shrines and move on. TotK is a wonderful game and I really believe it was a great idea to return to the Wild of Hyrule. But they've squeezed everything they possibly can out of it now and I don't see myself coming back for another installment in the same setting. ------- Related: One thing I really miss in 3d zeldas is the big towns and cities. We really haven't seen a proper city since Castle Town in Twilight Princess. One thing I wanted the most after playing Breath of the Wild was to see a lively Castle Town, more settlements and population to make the world feel more alive and populated. Obviously in the ongoing apocalyptic setting of BotW it made sense to have that kind of tension - these are decimated and scattered people holding out against the Calamity in the few safe havens they have been able to establish. It left me wanting, but sometimes that can be in a good way. Tears being set just a handful of years later made sense narratively, but there was not enough time to rebuild. Instead we see the same three human villiages, plus Tarry Town and I guess Lookout Landing as the extent of resettlement and population. And weirdly, a bunch of quests are talking about increasing tourism, fashion, and other developed-economy ideas but it's still set in the same world that still hasn't had a chance to rebuild. Anyways, even if we did get to see a rebuilt Hyrule again and Castle Town in all its glory, I would still be done with Hyrule like Arlo said.
Honestly, I want a direct sequel to Skyward Sword. Imagine if you will establishing the Kingdom of Hyrule in it's infancy, exploring the untouched wilds of the surface world after the populace of Skyloft descended down to the surface, meeting and establishing friendly relations with the tribes we all know and love, and meeting Ganondorf's first ever incarnation in the timeline after Demise was defeated. That's what I'd love to see.
If they went that route, I'd prefer to see a different villain. I like OoT Ganondorf being the first incarnation. I liked OoT Link and Zelda being their first incarnations too, but well, that ship has sailed.
Exploring the FIRST HYRULE kingdom would be insane and real cool! Whether it's Rauru's or another "first king" it'd be cool to see what happened directly after skyward sword. People like that the games are connected, idk how arlo is so butthurt over it. Players invested so many hours on these lands and characters, it holds meaning to us zelda players. I don't think I'd ever get sick of it and I been playing zelda since ocarina of time in the 90s. It's a kingdom that's been through hell and sees redemption by the likes of Link and Zelda. Although I do agree, we should visit new kingdoms, oracle games and termina were great new lands to explore.
I would rather have a direct sequel to Twilight Princess than Skyward Sword. Skyward Sword's story always felt like a one-off with a rather satisfying & tied-up conclusion. Meanwhile, TP left a ton of room for a sequel with Link abandoning Ordon Village, likely in an effort to find a way to restore the mirror of Twilight so that he could meet Midna again. Not to mention there's already an interesting premise of alternate realities with the Twilight Realm; would be fairly interesting to have an entire game set in that dimension, as I doubt the Twilight Palace was the only sole location that existed there.
Honestly I think there are very few benefits to setting it in the center of Hyrule. There’s nothing interesting about it anymore. But that can easily be fixed by just fleshing out the world around Hyrule. Have games take place in neighboring areas. Show the relations those areas have with Hyrule. Build *out* the world. Have Zelda go on a diplomatic or maybe research journey to the nearby kingdom of whatever and then suddenly all correspondence stops and Zelda’s party is gone without a trace. Then Link can pick up some hint of what happened and travel to this crazy new land to follow a lead. Maybe this Link isn’t even from Hyrule, and is just some random guy from that neighboring kingdom who stumbles into the plot and begins the heroes journey.
This is kind of similar to an idea I've had. I've thought about a Zelda game where Link is actually born in a neighboring kingdom and manages to meet Zelda, who's visiting from Hyrule, and she realizes he could be really useful in helping her with her goals. Perhaps there's some sort of prophecy or old legends about past conflicts and Zelda realizes Link fits the image of the hero in these legends/prophecies to a T. Or maybe he's just a well known adventurer in the kingdom and she realizes his skills could come in handy in helping her find *insert magical artifacts found in dungeons for plot reasons here*
@@Hero_of_Storms Existing Zelda games have kinda already had Link as an outsider to the kingdom before. TP's Ordon Village and BotW/TotK's Hateno Village were both remarked on in their games for being so distant and isolated. Both locations rarely ever interacted with the greater kingdom. In TP the kingdom was conquered and plunged into darkness first and then Ordon got caught up in it afterwards as the Bulblin forces swept through distant podunk middle of nowhere towns outside of Hyrule. In BotW's back story Hateno was one of the places that saw the least amount of carnage either directly from the calamity itself or indirectly from the rampage of the rogue Guardians because it was such an out of the way little side note outside the heart of the kingdom. Heck, we can look at OoT's Kokiri Village as well. That game's Link being some lost Hylian child that the forest folk took under their care doesn't change the fact that the Kokiri lived in isolation from the kingdom outside their forest. The Deku Tree protected them in there and wouldn't let anybody get in or out. Even in frickin' TWW with its vast open sea and suspiciously evenly-spaced scattering of little islands, Outset Island was presented as some small ****hole on the fringe while the real heart of the new world order was in the city on Windfall Island. But yeah, the series could do more to expand its vision of the world beyond just "belongs to Hyrule" and "sits just outside the fringes of Hyrule". Show us more foreign nations with power and influence that can rival Hyrule's. Especially with more recent games firmly wrapping up the Gerudo as close allies of Hyrule just the same as the Zora and Gerudo instead of having them as a hostile force. That leaves room for some new hostile neighbor to step in. It has been rare that they ever drop any hint of anything beyond whatever currently counts as "belongs to Hyrule" ever being relevant. We know the names Holodrum and Labrynna from the Oracles games, of course. Those are actual foreign lands somewhere out there. And in TotK Sidon's fiance comes from some foreign Zora kingdom that we know nothing about. And... most other examples have been some sort of dream world or pocket dimension or alternate reality or whatever else. But it would do more to flesh out the world beyond Hyrule if they did as has been suggested here. Anchor the centerpoint of a whole adventure in some new foreign land. Immerse us in the worldview of that kingdom for a while. And once we've become accustomed to that region of the world, then start laying down hints that establish a connection from there to Hyrule. Maybe at some point we're in a port town on a western shoreline and we see some pirate ships approaching from the west and before they get close enough that people can tell that it's pirates maybe you hear remarks like "Must be trade ships. It's funny though, I didn't think that any ships from Port Necluda were scheduled to arrive today." Just that little name drop and we can imagine a new coastal settlement built in the Necluda region we saw in BotW/TotK, like if the people of Tarrey Town decided to build something over by the spiral peninsula to their east. And it'd establish that the people in this foreign town we're visiting regularly make deals with them.
Honestly if they wanna continue with Zelda as the playable protag the diplomatic journey across kingdoms would be interesting to explore, as long as Zelda does not feel weak, like say the Royal family gave her lessons in swordplay as they can't have their princesses going around defenseless even if they have royal guards protecting her. Or you could have her use magic which one of the magics could be a spell for enhanced physical strength so she could actually do swordplay as Zelda has always been a mage so flushing that out more would be interesting
Not only do we need a new land to explore in the next fully-3D Zelda, but new species to meet as well. One of the biggest weaknesses BOTW and TOTK had was that, despite the emphasis on exploration and discovery, said sense of discovery was weakened by the reuse of familiar species. Zora, Gorons, Rito, Gerudo and Koroks aren't new. All we got were the Zonai and Yiga-faithful. Not only do we need to see new species and races, but if Nintendo ARE going to reuse any, it should be lesser-utilised ones, like the pig-mole creatures from Skyward Sword, or the Yeti from Twilight Princess. Having some familiar elements here and there is nice and all, like with Link's Awakening, but when familiar is all you have, there's a big problem.
Echoes of Wisdom did a good job of bringing back some deeper cuts from across the series for both NPCs and enemies. For instance, they did bring back the Yeti from Twilight Princess, and pulled from *Zelda II* with Arurodas, who hadn't been brought back before, as well as the oft-ignored Capcom games with Smog.
No, Tri Force Heroes really have a unique setting that I wish more people could enjoyed in its time, all have this magical even maybe theatrical setting and the entire game is another kingdom entirely apart from Hyrule, no old place hat you could see, is all new. I wish more people played the game because (despite nobody playing in Local Multiplayer) even in single player the game is very good and more people should talk about it(except the story, the trash goes to the trash container)
They could always make a game that does not focus on the triforce trio. They have such a vast, multi-timeline universe. Games about other characters. Whether they be side characters or brand new ones. Would be refreshing!
Nintendo was pitched a spin-off game featuring Sheik at one point (yes, Sheik is technically Zelda but she's Zelda's alter-ego so I'd say it counts). The game's concept art is still floating around the internet, it's pretty cool.
Y’know, with how much Metroid also likes to reuse story beats like Samus losing her armor, enemies like Metroids and Ridley, etc. It never really ran into the same problem. We’ve had a couple repeating locations, but more often than not a new game is set on a new planet
@@thekiss2083 Zelda and Metroid have very different approaches to their continuity. Zelda is anthology style reincarnation/prophetic cycles, while Metroid is continuity style in a universe that happens to have a whole lot of ways to avoid death. Ridley is supposedly killed and then reintroduced so many times throughout the series, for one example. In some ways I actually prefer how Zelda does it, just hang a lampshade on it and don’t even pretend to have continuity style storytelling. As Arlo has expounded on in the past, trying to make it so that Samus loses her abilities at the start of each game leads to some fairly eye-roll-inducing moments
Honestly. My main want in a new Zelda game to avoid stagnation, is to have the roles move around. The only bits locked in are the blood of the goddess and a male Gerudo. I want a trio fighting against a doomed fate, trying their best to break the curse, just for it to tragically come to fruition once again
You reminded me of the animated series by Major Link, and the web comic where Zelda & Ganon try to get married to stop the cycle. Both great creative fan works.
Zelda in 2002: Hyrule is gone, it's never coming back, and that's ok. Good, even. Zelda in 2024: You will never escape Hyrule. It will never die and that's a good thing.
14:34 Ahhh. I get why you are craving a new environment. It's the only way to get current age Nintendo to invest some time in developing proper worldbuilding an a narrative. They can't skip on fleshing out a new area! LOL
Honestly the thing that TotK made me want was a "retelling" of Majora's Mask since TotK felt very much like Ocarina of Time in a sense. I'd love to see if the mask got up to some mischief in the past before it got sealed away; though another thing I was thinking about was the map from Zelda 2 which was the Hyrule of the first game but expanded even beyond that. Also kind of curious if Ganon has to sprout up in Hyrule; yes, there's the whole destiny thing and Ganondorf must be a Gerudo but given we know there's Zora outside of Hyrule and the Gerudo did have to leave Hyrule before, so why can't it be the case that for once the threat of Ganon sprouts up somewhere else and invades Hyrule? It'd be interesting to explore and protect Hyrule and then continue beyond it's bounds into this new kingdom which has been overtaken.
Something I found so cool in Zelda lore in the early 2000's, before the timeline was better established, was the concept that Link did his adventure in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, then went to explore these other lands - Link's Awakening, and the Oracle games feature the same guy. Maybe for the 3rd Breath of the Wild style game, Hyrule is in a decent state of rebuilding, I like your idea with the modern temples, but maybe Hyrule wants to reach out to other kingdoms for trade or rebuilding or whatever. Your video also reminds me of the disappointment I felt playing Batman Arkham Origins, the concept of Black Mask hiring 8 assassins to kill Batman in one night was so cool. And then the twist reveal was so disappointing, throwing that cool concept out the window because of "familiarity" or whatever excuse.
The thing is, if we look at all the games with new places, all of them were direct sequels featuring the same Link as an earlier game. Zelda 2 expanded onto other islands or continents outside of Hyrule, Link's Awakening was ALttP Link, the Oracle games were, at the time, implied to be as well (and even if a coherent Zelda timeline existed at Nintendo, I doubt Capcom really had to consider it), Majora's Mask was OoT Link and PA was WW Link. TotK was the perfect opportunity to expand into new lands with new peoples with their own lore (like the Zonai), but because the whole gimmick from the start was reusing the old map but adding new stuff to it to save development time or costs, we got stuck with that. Until we have another sequel like that again, I don't see a new world happening.
I mean they could technically set a game with Link living in another land despite being a hylian. Zelda is kinda stuck to Hyrule because of who she is to the kingdom (literally the princess) but Link isn't really bound to something like this
There’s one possibility for them to get away with another Hyrule for the next one: let us watch the downfall of Hyrule *during* the actual game, instead of taking place before the game (WW, TP, BotW/TotK), off-screen (OoT) or not at all (SkSw). In all of these games Hyrule is either at the beginning of a decline or has already experienced it, but we’re never there for the actual events. I know they tried to show a version of the Imprisoning War in TotK, but Link’s actions have nothing to do with that. It’s always removed. Let us see how Ganondorf takes over the land, how once-prosperous towns get destroyed, how holy sites are corrupted by his evil powers. Not that the games should be necessarily more violent or go into rated M territory or something, but the one thing I hear constantly since Majora’s Mask came out is “Zelda is great when it deals with dark themes”. So why not lean into that with a Zelda game that shows all of that happening *directly*? The BotW memories were the closest we got so far.
@@JazGalaxy What would that solve really? There would still be a problem that Hyrule feels like a over used concept especially recent games. So it won't actually solve anything as Hyrule feels like a stagnant concept that they are afraid to experiment with different kingdoms or lands these days. Like the last 3D Zelda was actually before Breath of the Wild was Twilight Princess in 2006 not counting the remakes of the 3D games from 2011-2016, and even then most of the 2D Zeldas or top down view aside from Phantom Hourglass took place in Hyrule during that time frame so it's been a long time people are getting burned out on Hyrule itself
this is a good point. I think Zelda just has an issue with letting the villain be a fleshed out character who plays an ACTIVE role in the story. Like in Twilight princess, ganon may have set off the events, but he doesn’t really do anything until the end and doesn’t have a connection to Link that fosters the rivalry.
@@spoon7053 In the manga it shows how he remembers that Link from oot killed him and now he holds a grudge and can't tell the differences between the Links. Like near the end of the Manga Ganondorf just brutally tortures Link mentally and actually over powers him until he is blinded by rage as the resolve and not wanting to give up reminded him of oot Link Literally he was a menace and during the siege of Hyrule Castle all of the towns were being attacked by monsters at the same time and everyone thought they were going to die, so the logical conclusion Link thought was kill Ganondorf and the attacks stop Like the Manga did way more to flush it out and make Ganondorf seem like a force of nature as if it was not his blind rage at the end he literally would have killed Link
If you had put out this video a few years ago, I would have disagreed with you. I think after so many Zelda games throughout the 2000s taking place in new kingdoms, I was perfectly content going back to Hyrule for awhile. Majora's Mask, Ocracle games, and the DS games take place in new lands as you mentioned, but even Wind Waker and Skyward Sword I'd argue don't *really* take place in Hyrule. They touch on Hyrule, but they're not just the same locales for umpteenth time- the ocean and the sky feel like entirely new places. Same with Ganon- after a lot of new villains like Zant, Malladus, Ghirahim, and Yuga, I was perfectly happy to see Ganon again. I liked seeing Hyrule and Ganon as the series was going through its big formula shake up with BotW and TotK, because with the series changing so drastically in its ideas, it was great to still have that sense of familiarity. After playing Tears of the Kingdom though, I'm satisfied in that regard now. I'm definitely ready for a new kingdom to explore and a new villain, so I'm with you now!
right, im not sick of hyrule but deffenitly in for a new game format, also i really dont need the map to be that big and the options to be that many, a more oldschool linear story would be fine for me, ofcourse with still enough to explore, especially if you have a new map and a diffrent story, you wont need such a big map because itll be enough to take in as it is. also i want kid link again, that storyline is one of my favorites and i just miss him lol! havent played echoes yet but i do like that were gonna play zelda for the first time, as a women that would be so much fun honestly so maybe some more play with that too
I feel like hyrule isn’t the problem. The problem is Nintendo reusing assets. For example wind waker was in hyrule yet felt nothing like oot due to the ocean.
I'm one of the people who didn't like Wind Waker *because* it was nothing like OoT lol. I actually like the artstyle, but didn't like the ocean-based adventure Twilight Princess being more similar to Ocarina of Time made it my favorite 3D Zelda for the longest time lol
Let's not forget that new talents at Nintendo put Mario in the Flower Kingdom! So I'm positive there's a bunch of developers at Nintendo still liking the traditional Zelda's but wanting to move it to a new location. It's bound to happen!
I've... had my on thoughts on the matter; Geographically, speaking. Like...? Termina, but the rought size of BOTW/TOTK Hyrule? -What would that place look like 'now' ? ;~; [_The North, East, and South, (kind of?) of termina being land-locked?] >the Map itself being rotated 90° to better match-up with the compass rose? >N.> "Death Mountain" being a near-frozed wasteland like what the Rito went through in TOTK? >E.> ??? -Beats me... ...! The Gorons! Maybe they took up 'some' places Outside the valley, ^ (maybe) Because their old ancestral home got too cold?... >S.> River Zora that now live in the swamps? >W.> the Golden Age of "Amazon Women" Pirates!? (Hummmmm...) *Seafarers that Might be divied by driving principles of greed and thievery {Ganon/dorf?**}, vs. Honor and protection, (sisterhood? (Comradery?)) {Warrior code of honors?} (**HOW would that even workout with a laid-back fisherman???) Good video, Arlo. (:
A concept similar to termina from majora's mask would fit perfectly for an open world, since they want to continue with that formula Obviously we would need to exclude the time mechanic, that wouldn't really fit the open world, however collecting different things like the masks that give you different buffs or even transformations, imagine rolling around the fields of an unknown world as a goron or exploring underwater ruins as a zora, or going to sky islands as a rito, only being able to fit into small spaces as a korok or only being able to traverse the lost woods as one I think we really need more creativity in the zelda series, yes, the build mechanic was really creative, but if you give unlimited creativity, people will just find the best way to do a certain task, if you give limited creativity, you have a higher chance of people paradoxicly searching or finding more creative ways to do certain things
We have hyrule, Lorule (which can also be the dark world), the great sea, holodrum, Koholint Island, Skyloft, Termina (which is another Hyrule), Hytopia, New Hyrule from Spirit Tracks, the world of the Ocean King...and more lands of Hyrule than I bother to count....yeah that's a lot of times we stay in hyrule
I would love to see a Zelda game all about breaking the cycle. Purposefully pitting both heroes and villains alike against their shared destiny with different, opposing motivations that harken back to their free will. Gonna just posit some ideas below. Zelda’s wisdom informs her of the futility of their actions. She seeks a permanent answer to all the cycles of hatred. Link has the courage to find a world untouched by the cycle. Yearning to be something other than another Link in the chain. Ganon/Ganondorf craves power over his fate. He challenges the notion that he’s doomed to be defeated by seeking a new way forward by aligning himself with a new force. Obviously, Nintendo wouldn’t stray these characters too far away from their templates or their chosen tri-force pieces, so I tried to stay within those guidelines while providing potential for a new kind of ending.
I think you're reading way too into what Zelda is. Zelda is a simple fairy tale. It's not a deep existential story about the nature of good and evil and fate and destiny. You go to Final Fantasy for that.
@@JazGalaxy Zelda can breathe in nuance as well. I'm not talking about anything particularly revolutionary. The Zelda Cycle is directly addressed by Demise in Skyward Sword, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to have a game fighting against the very curse that clings to them. Each Zelda game has a different version of Link, Zelda and Ganon's motivations, while largely maintaining a version of their assigned Tri-Force piece. Playing with fate and destiny is partially what made Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask so impactful. It's reductive to say that Zelda can't talk about those themes while still maintaining its lighthearted and fun world. I would, however, agree that Final Fantasy is more likely to explore such themes in a complex and existential way. It would just be fun to see another spin on what Zelda could be. Using another core aspect of the series to further evolve in the same way that Breath of the Wild harkened back to Zelda 1's exploration roots.
Also, I think this is why Cia (from Hyrule Warriors) is one of my favorite Zelda characters, even if she's a spin-off character. With so much of Zelda being themed around fate and destiny, it's very refreshing to view a character in that world attempting to challenge her own fate. Granted, Ganon did pervert her desires into a crazed obsession with Link, but Link was the catalyst for Cia to desire something more than to be an eternal watcher of the multiverse. It is a shame, though, that she eventually resigns to her duty after she has seen the damage she has done (albeit, with a more positive outlook and a sister), but Cia was still a rare Zelda case of a character outwardly defying the role that life has given her. It would be interesting to see a dynamic like this emerge again, especially if it were to appear in a mainline Zelda game.
I think the reason Tears of the Kingdom turned out the way it did (unfinished, very reuse heavy), is because the Zelda team was making a second game during at least a decent part of its development. I mean we know Grezzo was making Echoes of Wisdom during TotK's development, and probably a small part of the Zelda team was taking care of that. But I think another part of the team was making a third game, one that is supposed to come out for the Switch 2, at the very least since 2022. Nintendo, from what we can gather behind the scenes, was going to release the Switch 2 this year, 2024. And of course, they want to repeat the success the Switch had, which in part was because it had a mainline Mario and Zelda game at, or near launch. So they knew that they had to have a Zelda game at the very least in the first few years of the Switch 2's life. But they knew that these big Zelda games take years and years to develop. And the team was already occupied doing a second Zelda for the Switch. So what do they do? I think, they split apart the team, probably around 2020, and began development on the next Zelda game. Concept artists, game designers, 3d modelers, programmers, etc, who maybe still could have done more work on TotK were sent to work on the next game, which of course needed to be made from near scratch, and the rest of team, was tasked to finish a game that still had very little new content. I believe that's why the map remains so unchanged, why the game lacks more character interactions, better dungeons, everything it is missing. The team that worked on it was smaller, so they had to find a way to provide content without making a ton of actual new stuff. So a ton of reused assets and ideas were used. Add to that the ultrahand mechanic that probably was added at the beginning of development and was planned to be used in many more interesting ways, but then half the staff left and so had to be made to function correctly by the rest of the team... yeah. It feels unfinished, because it probably was all the team could do in the time they had. Just making it work was probably more than enough work for them. This is honestly the one explanation I can think of for this game to be released in the state it is. We know the team spent the last year of its development just fixing bugs (and it's not like the whole team can do that), so we know when at the very least the next Zelda game development began. And it makes complete sense, since Nintendo probably wants a new mainline Zelda game for the Switch 2 in the next few years. In fact, the next Zelda game taking so long to make (as the B team was finishing TotK) could be one of the reasons the Switch 2 itself was delayed till 2025. Time will tell, but if the next mainline Zelda game comes out in the next 2-3 years, they definitively were working on it during TotK development, and in turn, hurt the development of TotK.
My husband and I just tried to make a campaign setting featuring many of the same regions in the BOTW map, using dice to randomize (multiple different types of dice in different configurations, including throwing them on a map to determine their placement). We tried *five times* to shuffle it around enough to not essentially resemble it within an 80% accuracy, and it was almost always *exactly the same* just rotated in different cardinal directions. I don't mind familiarity when there are enough details to make it different--heck, EoW's map is essentially the same in broad strokes as BOTW--but that doesn't mean we can't go beyond Hyrule to have an adventure featuring Link when the precedent's already there. Fans have been clamoring for years for at least a spiritual if not literal return to some of the more obscure lands and characters, and I think it's about time for that.
I'll make the argument that it doesn't really matter. Termina and Koholint both still could have just been "Hyrule." Both had your forest zone, your mountain zone, your water zone. Great Bay being ocean set it apart from Lake Hylia, but Echoes gave us its own Zora ocean area. What really makes scaling TalTal Heights different from Death Mountain? The thing that sets those apart from the rest in my opinion, isn't the fact that it's not Hyrule, but that the writing and characters were so much more endearing.
Exactly what I was thinking! 100% agree. In most of these games Hyrule is different every time, it shares some elements but it's not the same Hyrule each time. It's just a name.
Nowadays they definitely cannibalized the snowy mountains and Jungles into Hyrule, but Termina did them first. And Hyrule still doesn‘t have a spooky red canyon. Even though they tried making Gerudo Desert more haunted in Echoes.
I mean, I’d go further and say I’m sick of games reusing the same biomes and not doing something interesting. Like sure, I expect some of it, but it gets tiring how all we get are “grassy, fire, water, snow, desert” levels and there isn’t really a twist or some other made up area except for a fire/ice combo level or some sort of dark world. Or you’ll get one unique setting for one chapter/world and that’s about it. It’s all so bland. The Lanayru Mines in SS essentially made a desert/water level. It’s not even a new biome, but just a different combination made it stand out. Although, even with the case of “Termina could’ve been called Hyrule” (etc), the difference there is at least the architecture and whatnot changes more significantly. It’s not like they just made Hyrule Castle and moved a few blocks around. So it’s not just the characters or writing.
My first five Zelda games were Link’s Awakening, Ocarina, Majora, and the Oracles, so I had a very different impression about the nature of the setting for this series… thought it was almost a given that each game would introduce a new land. Felt very moved when Wind Waker offered a glimpse of a familiar place, then said it was time to let go of it. And then just about every subsequent Zelda was Hyrule Hyrule Hyrule. So this rant is familiar to me! Lately though, I accept the repeated elements a lot more since the series reads to me like a Groundhog Day story, reflected by MM’s premise, with Link stuck in a karmic loop until he wakes up. I’ve come to really appreciate the artistry of this aspect. But I love setting out into the unfamiliar, too.
I was thinking "the heck is Arlo talking about" - until I noticed that I've started all Zelda games since Breath of the Wild, but haven't played any of them for more than an hour.. and reflecting about why, it's actually because it was in Hyrule and I was kind of sick of it - but I didn't realize it back then ^^' Note: I really loved Wind Waker - not being in Hyrule did confuse me back then, but I loved it. And I loved it even more when I then got to Hyrule later on. I would love if they did that more - having other locations and if they really want to, let us go to Hyrule for a part of the game (not the whole game)
Honestly, Hyrule is so vastly different from game to game that it doesn't feel like returning to the same place. I actually find it refreshing when I play a game like Tears of the Kingdom or A Link Between Worlds, and I walk into a Hyrule where I actually know where I'm going. I like that feeling of "I've been here before, I know this place, I can't wait to see what's changed". But they so rarely give that to us. Hyrule in The Hyrule Fantasy, The Adventure of Link, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, The Minish Cap, Twilight Princess, and Breath of the Wild is a TOTALLY different place in each game. Almost nothing about those maps is even slightly similar. Not to mention Skyward Sword being set in a land that isn't Hyrule yet, and Wind Waker being set in a land (well, a sea) that isn't Hyrule anymore. None of these game worlds have anything in common. So they don't feel like returning to Hyrule, they feel like a totally new Hyrule every time. Only A Link Between Worlds, Tears of the Kingdom, and Echoes of Wisdom bring us back to a Hyrule we already know. I want MORE of that. In particular, I want to go back to the Hyrule from Ocarina of Time, but with modern graphics, more open exploration, and with an expanded map similar to Echoes of Wisdom.
You mentioned a "Sci-Fi Future Zelda" and I got all excited for a moment. Then I remembered that the Jak and Daxter series did exactly that progression and how that turned out, and got sad.
The difference is that Jak changed its entire identity in one game. Zelda already has the bones and build up for a futuristic game with sheika and zonai tech, not to mention the time shift robots. Everything is already set and waiting
@@BlanexBlzall the futuristic stuff is what I really don’t care for at all when it comes to Zelda. I guess it’s because I’ve grown up with all the old games, but it just rubs me the wrong way. I was so interested in the zonai with BotW but when tears came out and they actually got introduced along with their tech and back story I was really disappointed.
@@BlanexBlz No, it has gone too far. That's like saying there should be a full on adult rated sex game as a focus for Zelda because Oracle of Ages had a brief scene of Zelda kissing Link. Sci Fi is not the focus of the series. Tears of the Kingdom crossed the line. Why does Zelda need to even exist anymore if it is just going to become Metroid?
@Luxembourgish I never said I agreed with it, just that the bones are there. I personally would prefer to go back to the roots of link being a knight in a fantasy world without the crazy tech
I love Arlo but as time goes on I am getting more sick of ads and the biggest pet peeve right now is when sponsor ad reads are the very first thing in a video. Makes me feel like the sponsor is the most important thing here, its the first impression. It really rubs me the wrong way and I want to stop watching videos that do this.
@@AceBattleStormI’d rather at the beginning. Usually much easier to tell when the ad is over, and less annoying that randomly stopping in the middle of a video for a forced segue.
More than anything, though, I just want the old zelda gameplay formula to return in some form or fashion. If another BOTW-style game comes out I think I actually might literally not play it. I couldn't be arsed to finish TOTK
I have to disagree with you there, especially on the reused locations thing, because other than names NONE of the locals in Zelda ever feel the same really. Death Mountain in TLOZ, OOT, BOTW and TP all feel completely different, with their only similarity being that they're voclanos
Yea but you already know there's going to be a volcano, a big desert, a water kingdom. It may be set up differently but there's no wonder from expecting different locales. You can't go "maybe they won't be a volcano this time, maybe there'll be a mountain constantly struck by lightning or something but nope I always know it'll be a lava mountain. Take Elden Ring's Shadow of the Erdtree as good example of sequel content just being 100% different with no way to know what to expect. Or Xenoblade X shaking stuff up making the "white area" not a snow field but instead a big mushroom-like biome. I would've never had that same sense of wonder if I had to expect the same locales every game like with Zelda.
I always think it’s cool to leave Hyrule for a game, but I don’t share this boredom. Most of the games still feel plenty different to me. Just because there’s a place called death mountain doesn’t make breath of the wild feel anything like ocarina of time for me.
I really want a Breath of the Wild/Tears of the kingdom mix with Wind waker style game. Imagine link has to leave Hyrule for some reason. Exploring this vast ocean full of islands. But I’m not talking small rock islands like wind waker had. I’m talking multiple Koholint sized islands and then some. And as link travels around for whatever reason, he’s also becoming the hero and savior of these islands. Gathering allies for whatever big, bad they face. By proxy, if they bring back ultra hand, that’s how you could get around. Building your own ship. And as you complete quests on these islands, you get more parts to speed up your travel time. Players would have the option to explore around and have that freedom. Or you could choose the linear island hopping route, to get more parts which also gives Nintendo the opportunity of creating a more put together story
Maybe travel to a kingdom that used advanced tech (slightly more advanced than Sheika tech) and link has to adapt. Boom link with rocket boots unlocked
I'd be fine with it if they pulled another Wind Waker and had the land of Hyrule undergo such a monumental change that it's hardly recognizable (Next 2d Zelda game, Hyrule is a jungle suddenly. Jungle Hyrule is mah dream). Also, if they want to make a Zelda game where you hop across the timelines, then yeah that would need to be Hyrule. OTHER THAN THAT THOUGH, we really need a new locale. Especially for 3d Zelda. Although I know that a big problem here is exactly HOW they're going to take it somewhere new, since I feel like just having Link and Zelda conveniently showing up in some other Kingdom right when something bad happens and then killing their big bad for them would be cheesy and kinda anticlimactic for our first visit outside of Hyrule after so many years. Perhaps they could have the next game take place entirely on the sky islands, and have it explore a full populous Zonai Kingdom that existed ages before TOTK took place. Or mayhaps it could take place entirely in the depths. Or they could do something akin to what Majora's Mask and Phantom Hourglass did, and have the game take place in a weird alternate world. But of course if they can find a good excuse to have Link and Zelda haul themselves over to a neighboring kingdom that doesn't just feel like an excuse to get out of Hyrule for once, then I'd be thrilled.
Nah, his complaints are valid. Every single mainline 3D Zelda title has taken place in Hyrule or some variation of it, with the only real exception being Majora's Mask.
@@Days2MonthsMeanwhile, Mario does the opposite, with the only 3d games set in the Mushroom Kingdom being 64 and 3d land, and absolutely no one complains about that
A thought I've had ever since playing Majora's Mask decades ago: It would be cool to have a game that connected Hyrule to the surrounding world. Imagine starting a Zelda game in a typical setting only to somehow get kicked out of the Kingdom and some magic dome surrounds it preventing you from going there. Could have a whole game about trying to return home.
following the logic of rescue->rebuild ->rediscovery. I can se a last part of a trilogy, following the steps of adult timeline, where now the kingdom is reconstructed, and is time to reconstruct communication with other kingdoms, probably following something akin to Mario Odyssey where is going to different closer or nearby kingdoms and help them with their won villains, as like BotW we got a lot of reference to old games, a game with reference of other kingdoms would be really cool, an desert island to the east where a volcano have the shape of a broken egg, a metropolis close to the norther mountains where their oldest historic building is a stone clock tower. and a climax, where they end up finding an far away kingdoms called Hyrule too, totally different from theirs. probably if the DS game had a better reception, we could has had that last expansion to the trilogy.
I'M HAPPY WITH THIS PINNED COMMENT
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Your voice sounds like Adam Sessler. I hope you come out.
@@TeddyBelcher4kultrawiderude
@@joejoe2658 your a silly dude. The whole reason this video exists for you to click on is the TH-cam ad is included in it. Without ads, TH-cam videos with real quality would be about 10% of the size it is now on TH-cam. You are saying "I want roads without road construction occasionally slowing me down." Well too bad. You could always ask Arlo for a refund on your free content you clicked on.
@@ItsDangerousGoAlone "roads without road construction" is an amazing analogy
Soul reaver made me want zelda with better story telling and voice acting
Wind Waker might be called "Hyrule" but it was in practice anything but. There was no "Death Mountain", "Lake Hylia", etc. Its ocean setting felt so fresh to explore.
Death Mountain is there tho, it just has a different name. And well, we could consider that the whole game takes place on Lake Hylia lol
@@drnanard9605it’s not a lake, it’s an ocean
@Kinlon1102 Then I'll meet you in the middle and call it the Hyliantic Ocean.
Wrong. It was still Hyrule.
@Kinlon1102 thanks Captain Obvious, I don't know what the hell we would be doing without your insightful interventions.
Arlo might be sick of Hyrule, but right now he's just sick in general
He was so sick of Hyrule, it gave him bronchitis
You made me chuckle. Thank you.
The Hylian conspiracy!
I feel like he's sick 50% of the time. It's lowkey worrying lmao
Arlo is sick in half his videos. Bro needs to chug some Vitamin C or something
I'm not tired of Hyrule.
I'm tired of Hyrule being in ruins.
I want to explore a thriving Hyrule, in its prime.
Honestly it's a bit painful to see the new game "towns" when you go back to OoT or MM town markets and see how extremely bustling and lively they are.
@@carlotta4th Yeah, though those games mostly created the illusion of all that activity. But there's no reason a game today can't have towns packed with characters with their own individual stories.
Echoes of Wisdom! But I'm sure you mean in a 3D version.
Yesss. A 3D Zelda with a thriving Hyrule, and maybe another kingdom is asking for help and that’s what the game is.
Twilight Princess' Hyrule is so memorable to me, because its so full of life.
My single biggest gripe with Zelda comes from watching a behind the scenes for breath of the wild where they mocked one of the younger creators for coming up with the idea of having aliens visit Hyrule. You did that already! In Majora's mask! And it totally worked!
I always assumed the Gorman brothers were using their Garo mask to manipulate the Garo spirits into stealing their competition's cattle
@Eckster I love how seamlessly they were able to tell the story, without it ever feeling out of place in a Zelda game. They absolutely could be so creative again
Also what are the Twili if not aliens? They're literally from another dimension and everyone but Midna looks weird as heck. They start using geometric portals to pull an invasion. What more did they need? Space ships?
That's like saying just because Link gets kissed briefly in Oracle of Ages, there should be an entire game based on making out as the focus. This is why we should leave Hyrule, so the series can stay high fantasy in other kingdoms beyond it, without turning Hyrule into Metroid or Grand Theft Auto. Tears of the Kingdom already went too far with unfitting vehicles.
i think it's gross that they would just openly mock their colleague like that.
My idea: You're in a kingdom with a Hyrulian embassy and town. You are Link, sent from Hyrule, to a new kingdom with a new culture and story. That way it's connected while still being a new world.
Would be a good opportunity for a RPG version of Zelda as this would require Link having speaking lines for the first time ever
Could be about trying to ally with the new kingdom but perhaps a person or group tries to create chaos/take advantage. Would it take place in both connected kingdoms? Only in the new?
Maybe Link is escorting Zelda on a diplomacy mission, but then theres an inciting event that causes Link to have to act?
that was pretty much my idea
like maybe the game starts in hyrule castle and someone tells link why he needs to go outside hyrule for his mission
then it cuts to a montage of link leaving hyrule and riding a horse through a long desert of nothing until he gets to the new kingdom
idk, that's just my idea
@@igotkiwi nah, that's too far. keep Link the same, just add some new mechanics and worlds
So, what you're saying is, we need to return to Koridai.
Great! I'll grab my stuff!
There is no time. Your sword is enough.
Squadala! We’re off!
S-squadala?
@@Ghostabo It’s a Faces of Evil reference.
I wouldn't count Wind Waker. Yeah it's technically Hyrule, but you can barely tell and it isn't relevant until later in the game. It's different enough to count as a new place, considering the actual Hyrule is deep under the water.
yeah. new races n stuff too. rito, koroks, whatever the other things were.
I always have felt the same on this take. Windwaker’s over world was a fresh experience.
Yea sounds like youtubers sometimes be scraping the bottom of the barrel for making yt content. Nearly all POI's in wind waker are exclusive to wind waker lol where's the windfall island in ocarina of time?!?!?😂
It is highly implied that windfall island is just kakariko village.
Especially when you consider that Mrs. Marie is a Sheikah, with her Sheikah symbols on her clothing and her private island with the gauntlet like labyrinth under her house which is also hides a triforce shard/chart and she is the key to obtaining the hero's charm, which is also just 2 Sheikah eyes.
Skyrule is still Hyrule but flooded.
Arlo actually messed up his throat because he got into a heated cookie eating competition with a friend of his and it didn't end well. He forgot he isn't in his 20's anymore which happens to many of us so it's understandable.
That friend of his has been around for 55 years now, so idk if Arlo's age is a factor. Purely a skill issue, really
@linkypete Fair enough, Arlo might be good but he couldn't beat the King 👑
Are we Confusing Arlo for Cookie Monster?!
@@danielramsey6141 No, Arlo challenged Cookie Monster to a cookie eating contest and got destroyed
@@danielramsey6141 Are you illiterate?
To me one of the most interesting things from any zelda games was ordon village from twilight princess. A new region of hyrule with its own patron deity/light spirit.
It was on the otherside of the forest, technically outside of hyrule. Just the idea of neigboring lands instead of hyrule existing alone in its own void has always been cool.
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Video starts at 00:00
While i completely agree that we need more variety, i don't think it's totally fair to call Skyward Sword and Wind Waker setting "Hyrule again". Seeing the "ancestor" of familiar locations is an interesting spin on the usual Hyrule, and other commenters already talked plenty about WW.
Also Triforce Heroes takes place in a neighboring kingdom, not Hyrule, but yeah it doesn't really count in this discussion because it's basically a spinoff (i know Nintendo itself disagrees, but come on), it's mission based instead of exploration based, so its setting isn't particularly relevant to this discussion
Yeah, TfH was some sort of sidequesty fever dream. A Link that we've never played as in any other Zelda game wandered off to some place called Hytopia and played hero with either a pair of Link cosplayers or a pair of magical doll imitations of himself (depending on whether you were able to play multiple or got subjected to their trashy failure of an attempt at single player (single player is the only way I ever got to play it and ever will get to play it, and it was AWFUL. FSA did the multi-body single player infinitely better than TfH did, I only played FSA single player as well and I thought it was great)) and the plot was like something out of some random ass filler episode of an 80s anime show where it's just the lamest villain pulling off the lamest evil scheme.
Thanks for bringing Skyward Sword to the conversation! It came to mind immediately for me.
That origin of Hyrule is definitely very different enough for me to feel like it’s unique and mystical.
Triforce Link is the same as ALBW@@MuljoStpho
So y'all forget Majora's Mask?
I would definitely say that Wind Waker takes place in Hyrule* with a big fat asterisk. Half the game, you don't even know you're in Hyrule. It's completely different.
You are also kinda just "above" Hyrule. The nation Hyrule doesn't exist any more, the the land that was called Hyrule isn't land anymore, the people living above what was formerly known as Hyrule do not even properly remember it anymore.
Hyrule in Windwaker is even less existent than the Roman Empire today.
And like this "sick of Hyrule" kinda is just a "sick of always the same concepts" and Windwaker doesn't really use the same landmarks and goes out of it's way to tell a story different to typical Zelda stories, where a key story point it letting the last remains of Hyrule, the only parts that where unable to move on (The King of Red Lions and Ganon), behind.
@@hamdepaf6686 And that why wind waker is always going to be one of my favorites. Well said.
Only if you've never played Ocarina, the feel of the first two dungeons is so similar to ocarina in feel that honestly it felt like Hyrule, and the deku tree kinda cinched it for me.
furry. also lmao a pig sona?
Oink! ^🐽^
I'm not sick of Hyrule myself, but I understand the frustration for those who are all about discovery and wonder. In BOTW, the moment you see the volcano in the distance, you know it's going to be Death Mountain and you know there are going to be Gorons there. I get that, but it doesn't bother me.
They could stand to bring back some of the older races though. I'm sure seeing Rito in BOTW was a surprise. More stuff like that.
Also not sick of it, I have no arguments against variety, really
Surprised the Kokiri haven't come back yet
I think it’s simply that Zelda is allowed to be this way. But if it does, it’s not very appealing to plenty of people. Those people are free to ignore the game as they would anything else that doesn’t appeal to them.
I’m still interested enough in this series to play the games, but way less interested than I once was, and I could see myself not playing them in the future because what would I be getting out of that? They’re not THAT interesting if they rehash most of their ideas from here on out. That’s why Zelda, and other series, need to keep evolving in some way.
I think the main issue here is that with BotW, TotK, Link between Worlds and now Echoes of Kingdom they really milked Ganon(dorf) and the world of Hyrule to a point of unsatisfiying repetitiveness. I think that feeling comes mostly from BotW and TotK having no real time story for the most part thus the actual story is pretty much told by exploring the world and interacting with your surroundings. Zelda being a adventure game lives mostly from, well, the adventure and if you already know that on the bottom left there is a desert with strong women that hate men, how much of an adventure does the world really offer then? You can have a good time in your home town you know every corner of, but can you still have an adventure? However i really don’t think we have to worry too much about the next Zelda title. They‘ve managed to make TotK run on a fancy Toaster of a hardware and games like AC Black Flag are also almost a decade old, leading me to believe that creating an open world game you once again explore the seas is a likely possibility.
I'd even settle for a compromise and be cool with the classic Zelda races being reimagined in new areas. Rock eating Gorons don't always have to be stuck on a Volcano, maybe they could have a village deep within a sprawling cave system to be different, or maybe have some Zoras camped out in a lush green marshy swamp village instead of a pristine blue lake just to mix it up a little.
To be honest, apart from games which use very similar copies of the map (LttP/LbW BotW/TotK) every iteration of Hyrule is so different that they're not really the same place. If you didn't have names like 'Hyrule Castle' and 'Kakariko Village' would you even be able to tell that OoT and TotK were supposed to be set in the same place?
They're actually not. At least officially. They reconned the timeline again and put BoTE and ToTK firmly outside of the old timelines.
Exactly. So why then the same names? For me the key point is this. Remove old names. Remove old character designs. Heck ok we cant really get rid of Zelda... or wait we can.. Links awakening did it. Just make a game that do not have any refences to Hyrule. Thats it. Can it be so hard?
@litjellyfish I know that there's technically a timeline which slots all these games together (mostly) but I prefer to think of Zelda as what it's called - a legend. We're having the same story told to us by different storytellers, like the Legend of Robin Hood. Sometimes Sherwood Forest looks one way, sometimes it looks another, depending on the storyteller. Sometimes we hear about Robin's noble past, sometimes the stories take us to the Crusades or fighting the French,, but the core Robin Hood legend involves some version of Sherwood Forest, the Sheriff of Nottingham, Friar Tuck and the Merrie Men...
Zelda might take us to Kohilint or Termina, but the core is always going to be Hyrule, zelda and Ganon
@ yes and this is what i challenge like in the video. Why does it need to be this? Do t you like in the video get bored? (Apparently not as this is why Nintendo does this 😅)
Like I fully get you. I also want some familiarity but as in the video I feel it tend risk to get to stale if we don’t at least have some new “sidetracks” every 5 years or so :)
@ I am also not caring at all about the timeline. I fully agree with you about the legend(s) I just feel there is to little spread of those legends.
To take your example. I want more crusade stuff or about his child-hood (pun intended 😂)
Like on of my favorite movies is Robin and Marion - if you have not seen it then it’s a must watch, I truly promise that to you :)
Also in the time of YT comment hate. I really love how nice and non defensive your reply to me was. It really made my start of the week 💚
4:08 Now you know how Ganondorf feels
💀 💀
Hahahaha
Majora’s Mask was the most amazing, and cruelest of Zeldas.
Showing me that amount of story telling and emotional potential only to use it ONCE!!??
When TotK was announced to be darker than MM I got excited. When I actually played TotK I was completely disappointed lol
ngl i love mm but i feel like i would get to experience the storytelling better without the clock
@@Xonequisyou’re acting like mm was dark dark.
@@Xonequis Same! Everyone was talking about how dark it was, but when I played it it just felt... Meh? Like, it's not even darker than OoT, let alone MM!
OoT's story was as deep as MM.
In TOTK, Yona mentions that she's not from Hyrule but from a distant kingdom. This could be a good indication that the next 3d Zelda game could visit that area.
Really hoped that tears would push the boundaries out a little. A successful kingdom should have some kind trade routes with other kingdoms or something.
Depths has entered the chat: TRADE WITH ME! MINE AND GET PUFF SHROOMS! Bargainer statues AWAIT!
Tears of the kingdom's mechanics deserved a new world.
It would be neat if they did a Mario Odyssey. New species, old species redesigns, and some old species around. Like, the Zora in a brand new place. In that Yona Kingdom.
I believe she's a princess or royalty of a kingdom or principality of Zora. Possibly under a greater kingdom/empire like Hyrule and their Zora are.
Neat to know that Zora aren't only in the Kingdom of Hyrule.
What kind of magic could be outside of Hyrule in an unrelated Kingdom?
possible but there's no way they use the same Link again, they're going to a different era entirely for sure.
An unsuspecting Gerudo boy waking up one day when the Demise's curse kicks in:
Legend of Zelda: King of Sands
lol
I've thought for a while now that a story where Ganon was a good friend or mentor to Link before their cursed Fate's take hold of them could be really good.
I want a game where you play as a Gerudo version of Link so bad. Like something weird happened and the reincarnated souls got mixed up.
@@joshuapettis8771 I've been developing a story similar to that, I'm trying to work out reasons that Ganondorf would want to be king. It always bugged me the games never explain it.
All I really have so far is that king or possibly the prince of Hyrule (from Zelda 2) keeps kicking the gerudo out of the fertile lands of Hyrule. Also they keep stealing their women for indentured services and the Hylean brothels. Supposedly there's a legend of a great evil rising from the desert. Hyrule's treatment of the desert dwellers makes the rising evil a self fulfilling prophecy.
Gameplay will mostly be riding around the edge of the desert with Dorf (since he hasn't met Ganon yet) searching for food and supplies to maintain your small village. There'll be basic recon, rescue, and monster hunting missions picked up from a mission board in the town. Dorf is German for village, so maintaining a desert homestead will be the main focus.
IDK, just figured I'd try to put together a basic Indy game to tell the story, since Nintendo is never going to.
For copyright purposes we'll call the princess Shmelda, but you usually see her dressed as the ninja Meek 🤣 the player character would either be Lank or Lenk whichever is more popular.
The opposite was true for Mario.
"This ain't the mushroom kingdom really." What were the themes? Say it with me, grassland, desert, sea, mountains, sky, lava.
For me I don't mind. "Death mountain, Zora's domain, Lost woods, Kakariko Village, Hyrule castle." As staple locations. (Gerudo desert joins later)
The problem is they haven't made these things super interresting in a while.
Every itteration in 3D kakariko is completely different from the last. The 1st was a mountainous town with a graveyard. It's 1st appearance in 2D was the only town in the game and it was next to the woods. Then we got TP with a mining town build into the foot of the mountain with a western vibe (till hidden village confirms it more). Breath of the wild? Ninja village in some mountains, away from the foot of death mountain.
The hyrule fatigue more comes from the fact of: Echoes of Wisdom used the LttP map AGAIN but expanded it. And ToTK used the same map as BoTW but with a few extras.. (and those extras feel... "eh" ) You are done with the sky islands in no time and the underground is... boring....It feels like it lacks an idenity except for a few choice locations.
I'll name a hyrule you skipped over but is WAY different from any other of it's kind. "Minish Cap"
It still has Lake hylia and hyrule castle. But death mountain? No it's waterfall hills and Mt Krenel.
We get a swamp... A SWAMP IN HYRULE.. We had swamps before in 2D zeldas but not like this. We also go into the clouds! WHAT?!
The last game I want to mention is Four Swords Adventures.. wich I believe is as far as we can get out of Hyrule for biomes.
We got, plains, caves, ruins, forests of darkness and light, death mountain, gerudo desert, the frozen wastes, simple towns, bigger towns, dark towns, TWO WAYS OF INTERACTING WITH HYRULE CASTLE AS A DUNGEON! (1 by just busting in , the 2nd sneaking in), coast lines and so much more.
BoTW/ToTK tried it's best to get every lil inch of Hyrule styling in.. by even adding in a JUNGLE! And yet.... I don't feel anything for it. Cause that jungle... has no main quest value in either game or a dungeon laying there. LIKE WHY?! In BoTW you have 0 reason to travel to the southeast ever...for story reasons.
And I think this is where hyrule fatigue really comes from. Since that's how I got my wind waker fatigue. "The ideas don't feel done right." Yes I am dissing wind waker here, but i feel like the game wasn't fully there "yet". I await the full feeling of the maximum amount of dungeons of wind waker and what else it can bring. (I have modded versions in mind)
But in the end... Hyrule is still a fine setting. The problem is how we been interacting lately with it.. we aren't taking in the areas anymore. The last two games litterly gave us tools and said: "Go ahead.. break the game.. have fun." And suddenly these cool locations become more a haze. insted of.. "I remember this puzzle for a heart piece climbing up on death mountain." It became.. "I went up death mountain, saw a heart piece and grabbed it using X" While cool.... it already makes it more misty to think of it.
OoT is still the GOAT and my mind can never be changed.
MM is a close second for me personally, and I must also give props to BOTW because it was the first Zelda game to make me feel that childlike sense of awe and enchantment that I hadn't truly gotten from a Zelda game since OoT
I think that they need to revisit "New Hyrule" from Spirit Tracks. I feel like there is so much lore that could be built from that land, new villains, new locations, new stories. new lore... would be very interesting to explore the origins of Malladus or perhaps other spirits in that new world.
I don't think they need to "revisit" old places to create new lore.
I really want a game set where Link and Tetra discover it. It can explore cool mechanics of building this civilization, try the train mechanics in a full 3d engine -
What I'd most love to see though is a game with multiplayer for the whole adventure, where you can switch between Link and Tetra like a Lego game, with each having their own abilities, and it'd then open up tons more opportunity for some unobtrusive storytelling.
I feel like we already pretty much know malladus' origins. A sealed demon who possesses the guise of an oddly-coloured ginger man and turns him into a giant boar-like demon?
Just sounds like the latest iteration of Demise's curse, albeit remixed slightly by the hiatus it took during the period where there was no fully fledged 'spirit of the hero' to fulfil the curse's prerequisite participants.
Bellum, on the other hand, shares barely anything with Ganon or his origins. Even Oshus doesn't really know where it came from. We can assume it's a demon, but that's about it.
@@JazGalaxy technically, they did it with Echoes of Wisdom 🙂
@@WasatchWind You could also lean more into Spirit Tracks and have a steampunk Zelda game in New Hyrule where the train tracks are kinda just your fast travel.
The thought of being sick of hyrule never actually crossed my mind to be honest. Aside from ALBW and TotK recycling maps which were already in the series before, it's not like the locations were ever actually the same aside from having recurring names. There were also instances especially in BotW which made use of the familiarity we as fans have with the series locales, like hiding places from older games in the map (e.g. the Ranch or the coastline stretch that was modeled after outset island), or putting a new spin on navigating the lost woods - both of which were SUPER endearing to me and wouldn't have been possible had we not seen these places before.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against breaking out of hyrule every now and then but I also wouldn't make too strong a case in favor of it. MM being my favourite Zelda game largely had nothing to do with it taking place in Termina, but more so because of its unique approach to storytelling and overall very dark and emotional content.
For me they can go either way. As you already said, some of the recursion is pretty much baked into the lore of the series and I'd also take it a step further and say even into the title (A legend being a story passed on for a very long time is bound to have similar structural cornerstones and not deviate too much from its core).
I’m with you here. It never occurred to me to be sick of Hyrule because Hyrule is an ever shifting concept.
Before Breath of the Wild, we had games like Skyward Sword (Hyrule doesn’t even exist yet) Twilight Princess (half the map is a crazy shadow realm) and Wind Waker (where the whole map is ocean).
The post apocalyptic Hyrule of Breath of the Wild is as normal as this world as been since Ocarina of Time.
Same, Hyrule as the setting is fine. It's always different enough to feel fresh.
@@fdatab9314 Even with Majora's Mask where you are nominally not in Hyrule, you are in a location that matches the tropes of Hyrule so closely, that it is as much Hyrule as any of the other games anyway, given that they always make Hyrule slightly different
but that's the point, ToTK has truly jumped the shark with recycling the SAME Hyrule map with so many locations literally copycasted, only with different fetchquests and korok placements - which is SO not quality world building
Same. I think I _am_ sick of some Hyrule, but first, Hyrule has only been consistent between games in the case of map recycling (compare relative locations of stuff between Minish Cap, OoT, TP, and LTTP if you want a fun head-scratcher,) and second, I don't think most Zelda games suffer when you know the map.
Two games _really_ suffer from map knowledge: BoTW and ToTK. I think it's probably because the map is such a prominent part of the gameplay. There isn't a strong narrative thread pushing you forward, and even the dungeons are built with the idea that you can break progression if you want. Result being that my first play of BoTW was like a month solid of keenly exploring the map and picking apart everything I could, every subsequent replay was dramatically faster because the map was way less interesting and all mystery was lost, and my first (possibly last) play of ToTK saw very little surface exploration. Sure, I looked for caves, but those are telegraphed so well that it's usually obvious where a cave entrance is.
OoT? Exploration wasn't a draw for me there, and I replay it for... Can't really pin down an individual reason, so let's go with vibes. It felt like there were more angles for me to appreciate the game from than fresh blind exploration. Mostly same for my other periodic replays. FWIW, I'm not really sure I'll be replaying BoTW or ToTK in the 2030's like I've been replaying OoT, MM, WW, TP, LTTP and MC in the 2010's and 2020's. Maybe I'll forget enough for 'em to feel fresh, but I don't really count on it right now.
While I don't quite share the same level of exhaustion Arlo has with hyrule, I do strongly agree that Botw and Totk have essentially created the "Definite Hyrule" so to speak, such that I do not think another 3D game could make a Hyrule worth being in. We really have seen as much of this particular location as can be reasonably enjoyed. You really can only climb Death Mountain so many times before it stops being an event worth doing.
I do think we're in need of a radical new local, maybe with some all new races and whole new landmarks.
(I do agree with Arlo though, that I would happily play a third botw game if they Totally revamped Hyrule with Shekah and Zonai tech into a futuristic kingdom. Imagine the Botw map but with skyscrapers and air ships, I'd eat that up)
Honestly the locale will the big thing that’ll hold back any new world building the series tries to do if they stick with Hyrule, cus stuff like the Zonai is cool for what it is in TotK, but idk imagine what it’d be like if they created another race like them that managed to create a far off highly advanced city
I dont understand how people can say botw era hyrule is the peak of the series that cant be topped by another future 3D game...
there are so many ways they could improve on what botw era hyrule granted, sure at this point they SHOULD make a game on another kingdom or land or parallel world...
But they could also just make a new hyrule and make bigger cities, spread out enemy variety, improve interactions with constructuions (like the abilty to destroy structures), explore underwater, heck they could even flesh out caves and the skies even more.
they can change the setting of hyrule too, imagine flooded hyrule or ancient hyrule but with the same expansiveness as botw era, it would be bassically Assins Creed black flag but in hyrule
heck they could set a game in new hyrule, with their more advanced technology and explore that kingdom or they could have the original hyulre but in a future with new technologies, we know there was a time period where hyrule was extremely advanced as sheikah tech was part of everyones lives and very normalized, plus they could set a game in far future of botw era hyrule too but make so they advanced technologically, Purah does meantion that her plan is to make sheikah tech part of everyones lives so there is room for that
hyrule is so flexible as a setting, they can even just connect hyrule to another parallel world like the dark world, twilight realm, lorule etc, make more parallel worlds that merge with hyrule in some way and makes exploration more varied.
hyrule can definetly still be explored, reshaped, expanded or reused with a new twist, I think people are under estimating Nintendo especially since Nintendo is known for having eras of innovation and stagnation (look at the mario games, especially and the 2D and rpg games).
@ I mean, they’ve already done everything you described. They’ve already made bigger Hyrule’s. They already made a flooded hyrule. They already made a hyrule with an expanded sky, caves and mountains. They’ve already made Hyrule’s with alternate connected worlds.
It really doesn’t matter if there’s room for expansion in hyrule, people are sick of Hyrule itself. We’ve seen the entirety of this kingdom almost thirty times. We’ve seen death mountain, lake Hylia, Zora’s domain, hyrule castle, Gerudo desert, we’ve seen it all.
And if you make a game without any hyrule landmarks, you’ve essentially just made a new kingdom anyway.
I myself would be fine with Hyrule again, but I would agree with the sentiment that series should move on. I think it’s time for a new kingdom, with a new history, new races, and in all honesty, a new villain. Null is a very good step in the right direction.
I love basically every zelda game, but at a certain point there’s no point in exploring if it’s always a slight variation on a place you’ve already been to.
@MaxM210 they have not tho, where is under water exploration, huge cities, hyrule with destructible environments?
Plus again they can make new connected worlds or bring them back with the same lvl of expansiveness from botw era, like this is very much a valid reason to make a game in Hyrule.
Repeating that people are sick is just not a valid argument when most people dont even know if they are actually sick of Hyrule or just tired of botw Hyrule, nobody complained about echoes of wisdom map or said it was too stale...
The fact that there is still room for expansion very much DOES matter since thats whats necessary to actually expand something (which should be quite obvious).
Saying we have seen it all is kinda dumb when its literally just names, the zoras domain from ocarina of time, breath of the wild and echoes of wisdom are so different, they can literally just make another zoras domain, change the art style, maybe use the river zoras more.
Like if the only thing making you sick of similar land marks is them sharing a name then you are just not actually sick of it.
If we take an apple and call it apple then the next time I give you a pear and I keep giving new fruits but call it apple then the only reason you would be tired of it is because you are just sick of me calling every fruit an apple, sure you could be just tired of fruits but then you should try different food, which in this analogy you should just play other game franchises.
Which the brings the point that your argument of "if you make hyrule without the land marks you might as well not call it Hyrule" quite irrelevant, since Nintendo has made Hyrule and took away land marks, not every hyrule has an zoras domain, or a gerudo desert or Hyrule castle, heck they can add new land marks and regions, akkala, and necluda were new regions, they could expand on those and then side line the rest.
The fact that Nintendo has made basically entirely different lands and called it Hyrule (phantom hourglass, wind waker, zelda 2) means that yes, they can make a game without the major races or land marks and still call the land hyrule.
Because in the ind It quite literally doesn't matter what the land is called as long as they can make a map thats interesting, fun and, innovative explorable.
They can blow up and freeze death mountain and have its insides be warm creating various thermal zones where the weather goes haywire and has massive storms and tornadoes around it mixing the region into a chaotic land of fire, wind, ice and electricity, turn zoras domain into a massive underground water basin society where both the zora and a underground race live together, make gerudo desert into a lush jungle that is being degraded into a desert (like how it happened irl to the north of Africa), turn lost wood into a whimsical and quirky colorful forest like an alice in wonder land but junglepunk style where people get lost due to how weird the place is (instead of the usual cursed forest or seemingly normal but subtly cursed forest), lake hylia could then be on winter (or elevated due to weird geographic shifts) causing it to freeze and become a massive ice lake, they could even inovate on central hyrule and make actual large cities or even just varied vilages, heck maybe a special settlement like tarrey toen where people of all races can live comfortably symbolizing the unification of the kingdom, plus make more stuff like the great plateau too.
Heck they could even give ganon or vaati or another demon king some sort of dark land, a region that is actually under their rule in the borders of Hyrule and give a proper society to the monsters like bokoblind, lizalfos etc, as plenty of games hint at them actually having their own societies and settlements plus actually being an intelligent but that they deliberately follow and serve demon kings because its within their nature but they are just as capable of betraying their kind and finding love and meaningful interactions when given the opportunity (which has also been shown in the franchise too).
Hyrule is the center of creation, the sacred land that the Triforce rests, there absolutely is ways they can innovate and explore it, be it by using different time eras, natural disasters or parallel world that merge with it.
The fact that can just get the gimmicks from the oracle games and make:
a Hyrule where you explore the past (ss hyrule), present (normal Hyrule) and future (maybe modern setting or even cyberpunk style Hyrule), like time travel is still s viable gimmick in the series, nobody would complain about a MM style game with a time limit and all but set in Hyrule, you have to explore a big open map but you gotta have urgency or the world end, no more distractions with just drifting form the main story otherwise you need to reset your cycle and inventory...
Or make a Hyrule that lets you shift seasons and control the weather so you can see the land go through multiple styles and how the different seasons interact with each region, active with lava and earthquake and inactive lush and green plus maybe frozen death mountain, have a gerudo desert that shifts between semi green and bountiful desert with oasises or just as dry, death trap of a land with basically no resources, lake Hylia that can freeze, flood with water or dry out a bit and expose more land, a lost woods that shifts between creepy deadly forest and magical fairy forest, by link controlling its weather and seasons Hyrule can be greatly expanded.
Like bro, Hyrule can still be used plenty, I literally just gave out 3 or maybe 4 core sets of ideas that could basically all makeup their own zelda games and Im just a single guy, Nintendo has a whole studio full of people giving ideas and greater imput.
Plus lets not forget there is still demand for flooded hyrule and demand to bring back twilight realm and lorule.
The point is, let Nintendo cook, Hyrule is not a stale setting, if they want to make a game in Hyrule they will, if they want to make a new land they can do it too, they will prioritize fun at the end of the day so they will deliver a map worth exploring no matter what.
They already announced at some point that the botw/totk Hyrule is complete and they are going to do different Zeldas and links but the real question is........what is the new game going to be like. Will it be open world or will we go back to traditional semi linear (Majora's mask for example) or complete linear (like ocarina of time)? Only time will tell.
I honestly can't consider the world of Skyward Sword as Hyrule. If anything, it's proto-Hyrule, but certainly not a kingdom. It's basically an untouched land. The only familiar race that exists are the gorons and Impa, the lone Sheikah. There were no zora, no rito, no Gerudo, no kingdom.
Wind Waker had a Hyrule, but it was underwater and the game was not played upon that land. It wasn't even referenced until the middle of the game. I don't think that counts.
The Minish Cap had Hyrule Castle, but the land was not the familiar terrain that we are used to. I actually really love that game, so I had to point that out. That's a game that has the bane recognition of Hyrule, but in an entirely different setting...like they relocated the castle to a random location. It didn't even have Ganondorf as the villain! This is such a severely underrated game. 😢
gotta say, this is a rare occasion in which i respectfully disagree. i feel hyrule is one of the core zelda elements, along with link, zelda herself, ganon(dorf)/some other proper demise incarnation, the triforce, and the legendary sword. it just feels wrong when they forget these things in games, although the times they change these elements while not removing them are some of my favorite iterations! four sword put a fresh spin on the master sword while keeping the legendary feeling, and windwaker completely revamped hyrule, while making it still "hyrule". most games need more, but tloz for me, THRIVES on tradition. do they really need to step out of thier comfort zone? absolutely. i just dont think stepping out of hyrule is the way to go.
I do think just having another major human nation would be cool. Have Zelda out doing diplomacy or something. What I really specifically want is to have people that are totally out of the loop with the legend and have their own stories and heroes.
Sure zelda and link save the world plenty, but what about threats in other places.
Ganon but instead of a desert pig guy he’s a tundra bull guy
Wherever it is that Sidon's wife used to live.
That’d be pretty cool. Or perhaps a time skip a couple of generations . I’ve really loved the idea of aging link up once and making him and Zelda relationship more platonic and knight ship in nature. She’s a budding princess he as to protect on one of the royal missions going sea bound but fails to do so. The game takes place in tracking her down in a mysterious new land
@hued2542
Kind of like Vander in Fire Emblem Engage. He didn't love toothpaste main character, but he did protect them, and the age gap was pretty wide.
Would this world be parallel, real, or another dream like Link's Awakening?
Well, now I want a Prince of Persia 2008 type game where Zelda is out nurturing diplomatic relations and Link is her personal guard
Spending like 300-400 hours in BOTW and TOTK, I know Hyrule like the back of my hand. TOTK honestly kind of felt like "Cool, let's go visit this place we've already visited to see what's changed" rather than actually exploring. So yeah, I'm a little Hyrule'd out. But I'm a new fan, I haven't played all the old games so I don't even know what a non-Hyrule Zelda game looks like. I plan on going back and playing the old games sometime but haven't gotten to it yet.
At least check out Majora's Mask originally for the N64. There's a 3DS remake that's very good. It might be the most dark/mature in tone.
I didn't like that about totk
TOTK was pretty different as a whole than BOTW, I don't get this narrative. The whole map was terraformed
People always talk about Majora’s Mask being “dark” or “mature”. That’s not why it’s great. It’s not great because it’s validation for 12 year olds, it’s great because it’s a beautiful work of art.
Majora’s Mask is composed so beautifully in terms of structure, music, unique ideas and its abstract tone. The moment to moment writing is nothing special, but the context of it sticks with you. It’s worth experiencing for its own sake. And Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker are the same way, even thougy they don’t have the “edgy” acclaim of Majora’s Mask.
A non-Hyrule game looks just like a Hyrule game. I love Arlo but his opinions are often really dumb. (And maybe just for the sake of content). The fact of the matter is that the "fans" of Zelda think about things 100x deeper than Nintendo does. "Hyrule" is just a name. It looks and feels different in every incarnation unless it's a direct sequel, which only happens occasionally.
I thought you were just "sick" in general
banger comment
Totally sick
🤙
I thought he was sick of bronchitis
Yeah, he's sick as hell. 😎🌭
This whole point feels very.... stupid, to me.
Are you telling me that Botw and Adventure of Link feel the same to explore becasuse both places are called Hyrule?
Or FSA and twilight princess?
Or OoT and SS?
Or the Original and aLttP?
Or like.... almost any combination of games????
You already know before you start the game what all the main locations are going to be so yes, there is less sense of wonder, the only different thing is how the paths are arranged.
@@LZ02-OVERTURE You already know what the locations are going to be because those are like... the enviroments... that exist.
Mountains, forrests, lakes, oceans, deserts, fields, tundra, swamps, volcano.
That's like... it.
It doesn't matter what you call the map, those are the enviroments you are going to encounter.
Spirit tracks is set on a new continent.
Guess what you get.
Forrest, tundra, volcano, ocean and desert.
Oracle of ages is set in labryna.
Guess what you get.
Field, Mountain, forrest, ocean.
Oracle of seasons is set in Holodrum.
Guess what you get.
Desert, forrest, field, Ocean, mountain, swamp.
Maybe your point is, "Well Hyrule always has the same collection of enviroments in the same places," but that's just wrong.
Echoes of wisdom, minish cap, and Foursword adventures all have swamps.
But Echoes is in the bottom right corner, Minish caps is in the bottom left corner and Fourswords is just south of the center.
Death mountain, appears in multiple Hyrules, but can be on the top left side, top right side, or in FSA at the top in the middle. And in four sword is 3 volcanos instead of one.
Botw, totk, Echoes of wisdom, Windwaker, LoZ and adventure of link are the only versions of Hyrule with visible ocean.
"Only differnt thing is how the paths are arranged"
The paths and how they are arranged ARE THE MAP. What do you mean the ONLY thing. THAT IS THE WHOLE THING.
Yeah if you see the same places with nearly the same exact aesthetics across multiple games, it will get stale.
@@mrfox5117 Except they are not nearly the same almost ever. Botw and Totk share a map. aLttP and aLBW share a map. And Echoes of wisdom uses a lot of ALttP's map, but most of the game takes place in the new areas.
That's like it.
Depending on the game, the regions can be in entirely different places. Some have snow areas, some have swamps, some have more than one volcano. The only thing even remotely simmilar about them is that the places have simmilar names. Exploring death mountain in Minish cap is a completely different experiance to exploring death mountain in Twlight princesss, or Wind waker, or Skyward sword.
Unless you literally just mean they look simmilar. Which they don't really. They mix up the art style fairly regularly.
Just want to say / point out...
Mario leaves the mushroom kingdom way more than link leaves Hyrule.
FREE LINK!
A spicy hot take OUTSIDE the salad?
Let me get some napkins
Not so spicy.
More of a lukewarm take, arguably
It just feels like another instance of "I swear I'm a Zelda fan. Now lemme talk about how I don't like Zelda, and haven't for a long time."
@@handgun559
This feels like an unnecessarily uncharitable interpretation
@@Bubble-Foam That's entirely what the video felt like.
"Hyrule, the setting of The Legend of Zelda, a story set in Hyrule, is overusing its own setting. The setting of Hyrule in games about the lands of Hyrule. That Hyrule. The Hyrule that's the setting of the games." Like... I'm actually confused, but we're all allowed our opinions.
It's just a game after all.
Hear me out: Take us back to Termina, but Clock Town itself is the size of the entire Great Plateau, with the verticality and complexity of Hyrule Castle.
That would really be lovely
As much as I wish that would happen, Aonuma probably wouldn’t let it. Majora’s Mask was hell to make and he isn’t particularly fond of it. The only reason the 3DS version was made was because fans begged for it after OoT 3D.
Ermm... how about Nintendo creates a new world and story, like they did with Majora and Awakening, the best Zelda games.
Instead of milking the already existiert worlds to death.
@@isaiahdavis9486Annnd they messed up the 3ds version as well. They really don't want us to go back to Termina
I just sighed deeply in love with this idea
It’s funny how the pendulum swings. During the Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks/Skyward Sword era, I remember the fans wanted to return to the “classic” Hyrule with all the usual areas and races. Now after ALBW, BotW, TotK, and EoW, everyone wants to somewhere outside Hyrule. After the next few games outside of Hyrule, we’ll want to go back.
Sisyphus, thy boulder be novelty.
😋
I think there's something to be said for Nintendo cribbing a few lines from, of all places, Bethesda. The Elder Scrolls games having a huge world to play with and set different games across are part of what make Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim feel like they're three distinctive games but also feel like they belong to a shared universe. Nintendo would do well by building out the world that Hyrule is clearly part but not all of.
Zelda fans are some of the most chronically dissatisfied people I've ever seen. Very odd given that their franchise is one of the only ones that has been consistently excellent for like 40 years. Yet they always complain.
@@MarkHogan994
I don't consider it a complaint as much as a wishlist... Nintendo rarely considers what fans actually want unless we are extremely vocal about it. We only got Twilight Princess because fans advocated for it.
@@MarkHogan994 This is why I HATE most Zelda fans and also because I find Zelda fandom annoying! The Zelda fans don't know how to decide whether they love or hate a game in the franchise, in this way, games like Zelda Wind Waker and Majora's Mask ended up being hated at first, but became loved over time; Skyward Sword, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and Tears of the Kingdom are controversial games that fans fight among themselves to say whether they are bad or good; and Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild are games that were loved but became hated/divisive.
The Zelda fandom ends up having an annoying part of fans complaining about current Zelda games just because they "have no essence", a stupid complaint which makes the Zelda fandom become a Sonic fandom 2.0, since Sonic fans complain about the division of 3 formulas in the franchise (Classic, Adventure and Boost) and thus there are fans hating the boost formula; fans hating the Adventure formula; and fans hating the Classic formula. This is all stupid hate.
And that's why the Zelda fandom, to me, SUCKS.
I'm brazilian.
Huh, you know... I don't think I can agree with you on this one. Not that I think you're wrong, but because I constantly find myself overjoyed about being in Hyrule! Now that being said I do wish we could see more out of it than a simple recycling of previous versions, but let's be real here, it's always been on the simple side. Botw was the first to actually go above and beyond with Hyrule in a way I didn't expect, honestly.
Honestly, what I think I'd love to see would be to have a game take place in not just Hyrule. A game where yeah Hyrule, and it's castle, are there... but you have the ability, nay the obligation, to go beyond the kingdom to either other kingdoms beyond or at least to untamed wilds that exist beyond it.
For example, in my honest opinion, I have 4 ideas for Zelda games I'd LOVE to see in the future even if I know I never will. The first being a game in the future of TotK, where there's no ancient tech, but tech they developed themselves, and there are kingdom(s) outside Hyrule.
The second being a game set farther into the Child Timeline future, where it's like a thematic mix of Twilight Princess and something like Red Dead Redemption, with trains, guns, and horseback combat.
The third is a game in the Adult Timeline, like a mix of Windwaker and AC4: Blackflag, where you sail the high seas off the coast of New Hyrule pirate style.
Lastly, a game pre Ocarina of Time that is about the Interloper war talked about in Twilight Princess.
In short, still taking place in Hyrule, but more so.
You know what would be cool. If they brought back the linked adventure across two games like the Oracle games.
Like imagine two games that each have their own complete story, but import the data from one into the other and it unlocks items, dungeons, stoy events.
It doesn't even have to be as complicated as shifting seasons and moving through time.
I think the problem might be the whole problem with Triple A games being so expensive to produce. It's too much of a risk to change such an integral part of the Zelda franchise. Which should open up for at least a top-down Zelda to do something a little more experimental with location and narrative, but who knows.
Personally I've always wanted them to experiment more with location and narrative, always loved Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening, loved having Zant as a villain and was pretty disappointed when he was suddenly humiliated and it was revealed to just be Ganondorf again. I'd much rather see them revamp the location and narrative rather than, as in BotW and TotK, completely change the gameplay but keep the same Link vs Ganon in Hyrule thing.
Maybe when you aren’t sick you should vacation to Lorule
❤
I wouldn't mind exploring the Twilight Kingdom more - like an expanded world of the Twili. Or another alternate realm like the realm the Twili.
Nah that'd be cool but Nintendo has no object permanence for anything outside of their blueprint.
I was suprised they introduced something as seemingly big and important as the Realm of Twilight and then... just forgot about it. Complete alternate dimension with its own race of people and ruler and everything, and yet it feels like they barely scratched the surface on it in TP. Would love if they brought it back again in some form.
@tervardi ❤
@@Jasperr9999 Thank you! I couldn't agree with you more.
This is part of why I love Midna so much. It's just the mystery of her homeland, and how little we know about it.
Palace of Twilight, being a collection of floating islands in essentially a void, felt like we didn't get enough time to actually scratch the surface of stuff like culture, customs, what resources they have, agriculture/livestock, basically ANYTHING we've seen from all other races that have appeared. It just felt so laser-focused on the dungeon aspect that the untapped potential starts showing through the cracks.
I feel like part of this frustration is that the 2D games have not redesigned 2D Hyrule, in a long, long time, and that the last two 3D Zelda games have used the EXACT same world map. the only other modern seamless 2D Zelda Hyrule we have is from Minish Cap, which actually brought ALOT of interesting name and location differences to it! Very exotic really. Of course, there's... New Hyrule in the PH/SS games, but those aren't really seamless foot-travel worlds. On the other hand, BotW's map already used the rather conventional map layout from ALttP that clearly the Zelda dev team are rather fond of reusing... death mountain in the north, lost woods to its west, lake hylia below Hyrule Castle at the center, big Gerudo Desert to the South-west. Kakariko Village seems to be the only thing that moves around!!!
It's really funny actually... I remember 10+ years ago when Skyward Sword had come out, there was all this confusion and frustration about how the land of Hyrule was meant to look and be laid out, they just seemingly kept changing the landscape and locations every which way throughout the timeline! We wanted them to have SOME sort of consistency! Back then we were begging Nintendo to 'please bring back Zoras, Can we please have some of the old enemies brought into 3D (still do), PLEASE can the Gerudo race be seen again in a Zelda game???'
Now look at all the complaining, LOLOL. We only just finally got back the Deku race for the first time since Majora's Mask, AND in a 2D Zelda game!! Times change I guess.
I want to go back to koholint island and save Marin from being trapped as a seagull forever .
I'm not sick of Hyrule in general but I do want a new iteration. Like what BOTW gave us. No more referencing LTTP's map. Give us a something new and fresh. Shake things up again. I think the one two punch of TOTK reusing BOTW's map and EOW using a LTTP inspired map (though not identical to it) was a one two punch of seeing familiar things.
That said I have no objections to a new game set in a new setting either, I would have preferred TOTK to focus on a new kingdom (or at least a different time period or something) than rusing BOTW"s world fast forwarded a small handful of years.
Agreed. Make the next open world game a three-dimensional rendering of Zelda II’s Hyrule, with a giant dungeon-esque connected Underworld.
@@Ironcabbit It could make for a good first step, though of course they'd need to flesh out and add more environments etc.
But there are other things they could do too for new iterations of Hyrule. A more steampunk 3D zelda, exploring eras where things are very different. Just re-imagining the kingdom and adding new places and not just updating old ones etc. We see hints of more sci fi stuff in the past a lot, such as lingering Sheikah teck in BOTW, heck enven SS somehow has an ancient lost civilizations of or at least including sentient robots, and that's before Hyrule was ever founded. Seeing a part of the cycle where some of that tech is more current could be fun.
A new open world 3D zelda doesn't have to feel derivative of BOTW's world if they put in the effort.
The game that tears of the kingdom was, was only possible because it built on botw. It'd have been a significantly smaller and less grand game should it have been somewhere new.
@@bobdylan1968 As someone who found the Depths and sky islands kind of half baked and didn't particularly care for Ultrahand/fuse as main mechanics, that doesn't sound like such a bad thing to me.
YES. THANK YOU.
I've been wanting new worlds to explore for sooooo long!
The fastest way to hate your favorite food is to eat it every day.
Better for them to creatively explore new kingdoms, than to be so bankrupt of ideas that they have to keep ruining Hyrule by making it more and more Sci Fi like Tears of the Kingdom.
I 100% agree. I want to explore another unique world like Termina or Holodrum instead of Hyrule for the 20th time
You can only do forest, lake, volcano, desert, so many times before it starts getting repetitive
@@zacziggarotI mean that’s kind of been the backbone of the last 38 years of the franchise, if it was repetitive it would’ve died a long time ago
@@zacziggarot This may shock you but those are also the only things conceivable in reality. That's why they're in every game.
@@Arcessitor are you serious? Is your brain that broken that you can't conceptualize other areas? I think you've been playing too much Zelda man. I didn't even mention tundra, valley, beach, jungle, caverns, swamp, grassland, haunted mansion, guard station; they could have a sky castle, they could have a futuristic setting, let the game take place during one of those advanced civilization periods, cyberpunk but Zelda. Let Link drive a motorcycle through the subterranean Goron city streets.
@@Gafafsg the trick to them not feeling repetitive anymore is that they take 5 years between games now. We have enough time to breathe. I've personally already gotten tired of doing the big four areas over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. (Every over is a different game, this is accurate 😉)
Admittedly if botw3 had only the surface and fleshed it out even more thoroughly, I'd take that. My favorite part of tears was just re exploring the surface. The sky and depths were kind of garbage, really wasn't anything to do in either area. Literally all the caves all looked the same. I'd rather they just either push out the boundaries or fill in some more towns and characters to make it feel like a place where people actually live instead of an empty wasteland.
I’m more sick of the open ended Zelda games. I want linear back so that the story can have more details again
Yep! Me too.
Me absolutely not.
Only halfway through the video but honestly yeah, I would love some new names and elements in the Zelda franchise. ALBW and TOTK both using practically identical maps to previous games feels like that compounded it.
I personally really like the flight, boat and train travel in Skyward Sword, Wind Waker, and Spirit Tracks (NOT Phantom Hourglass, redrawing those charts in a chase was hell) but it's been what a decade and a half since we had a real ocean region? We didnt even swim in Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword's water was both temporary and not an ocean, though the sand sea was great.
I'd go for something to the tune of Snowpeak Manor but bigger, or lived-in underwater cities or like, a mysterious maze like the lost woods but its a series of wind tunnels you fly through (like Sky CotL cough)
I can't help but think of Forgotten Land during this video. Being the first fully 3D kirby, I don't think anyone would've been shocked to see typical Dreamland locations. And yet, HAL really went bold with the games setting, and it really paid off. Why couldn't Zelda's first playable appearance be in some weird, new place? If Kirby can do it, so can Zelda.
Are you comparing the blackhole of death to a mere semi-mortal?
11:55 Put Death Mountain, Lake Hylia, and Hyrule Castle ALL IN THE SAME PLACE!
The castle is carved out of the base of the mountain rising from the lake!
Smallest open world yet, because they went all-in on density!
Careful. Too narrow and you’ve got a Metroid world.
@@Ironcabbit See my other comments, one of 'em will be of some interest!
@@IroncabbitLegend of Zelda metroidvania? Cool.
Arlo: tired of Hyrule
Yakuza fans: playing in Kamurocho for the 62 time in a row
Was just thinking this lol. To be fair to Arlo though Yakuza takes its story way more serious then most zelda games in a way that it makes sense. Not to mention that Kamurocho always does an amazing job feeling filled with life even with such a small map
I love that this came out right around the time that I'm playing through Tears of the Kingdom. I've been playing on and off over the past year, revisiting areas from BotW and exploring the world for a second time. After a year of not being fully hooked I'm just now getting into it steadily to complete the major quests and the story.
I intentionally stayed away from both games for several years just to ensure that Hyrule would feel fresh and new when I came back to it. But it doesn't feel new. There are new things to find, and there are new game mechanics to experiment with. There are new sky islands and new depths to discover. But on the surface of the map, I have never felt compelled to explore. I'm just there to collect what I need and unlock the shrines and move on.
TotK is a wonderful game and I really believe it was a great idea to return to the Wild of Hyrule. But they've squeezed everything they possibly can out of it now and I don't see myself coming back for another installment in the same setting.
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Related:
One thing I really miss in 3d zeldas is the big towns and cities. We really haven't seen a proper city since Castle Town in Twilight Princess. One thing I wanted the most after playing Breath of the Wild was to see a lively Castle Town, more settlements and population to make the world feel more alive and populated. Obviously in the ongoing apocalyptic setting of BotW it made sense to have that kind of tension - these are decimated and scattered people holding out against the Calamity in the few safe havens they have been able to establish. It left me wanting, but sometimes that can be in a good way.
Tears being set just a handful of years later made sense narratively, but there was not enough time to rebuild. Instead we see the same three human villiages, plus Tarry Town and I guess Lookout Landing as the extent of resettlement and population. And weirdly, a bunch of quests are talking about increasing tourism, fashion, and other developed-economy ideas but it's still set in the same world that still hasn't had a chance to rebuild. Anyways, even if we did get to see a rebuilt Hyrule again and Castle Town in all its glory, I would still be done with Hyrule like Arlo said.
The new outro music is the best you’ve ever had! Please don’t change it, it sounds so “Arlo.” Like if you had a theme song, this is it.
Honestly, I want a direct sequel to Skyward Sword. Imagine if you will establishing the Kingdom of Hyrule in it's infancy, exploring the untouched wilds of the surface world after the populace of Skyloft descended down to the surface, meeting and establishing friendly relations with the tribes we all know and love, and meeting Ganondorf's first ever incarnation in the timeline after Demise was defeated. That's what I'd love to see.
If they went that route, I'd prefer to see a different villain. I like OoT Ganondorf being the first incarnation. I liked OoT Link and Zelda being their first incarnations too, but well, that ship has sailed.
Exploring the FIRST HYRULE kingdom would be insane and real cool! Whether it's Rauru's or another "first king" it'd be cool to see what happened directly after skyward sword. People like that the games are connected, idk how arlo is so butthurt over it. Players invested so many hours on these lands and characters, it holds meaning to us zelda players. I don't think I'd ever get sick of it and I been playing zelda since ocarina of time in the 90s. It's a kingdom that's been through hell and sees redemption by the likes of Link and Zelda. Although I do agree, we should visit new kingdoms, oracle games and termina were great new lands to explore.
I would rather have a direct sequel to Twilight Princess than Skyward Sword. Skyward Sword's story always felt like a one-off with a rather satisfying & tied-up conclusion. Meanwhile, TP left a ton of room for a sequel with Link abandoning Ordon Village, likely in an effort to find a way to restore the mirror of Twilight so that he could meet Midna again. Not to mention there's already an interesting premise of alternate realities with the Twilight Realm; would be fairly interesting to have an entire game set in that dimension, as I doubt the Twilight Palace was the only sole location that existed there.
What if we got a town simulator as a Skyward Sword sequel? Like your goal for the entire game is to establish villages as descendants of Skyloft.
Honestly I think there are very few benefits to setting it in the center of Hyrule. There’s nothing interesting about it anymore. But that can easily be fixed by just fleshing out the world around Hyrule. Have games take place in neighboring areas. Show the relations those areas have with Hyrule. Build *out* the world. Have Zelda go on a diplomatic or maybe research journey to the nearby kingdom of whatever and then suddenly all correspondence stops and Zelda’s party is gone without a trace. Then Link can pick up some hint of what happened and travel to this crazy new land to follow a lead. Maybe this Link isn’t even from Hyrule, and is just some random guy from that neighboring kingdom who stumbles into the plot and begins the heroes journey.
This is kind of similar to an idea I've had. I've thought about a Zelda game where Link is actually born in a neighboring kingdom and manages to meet Zelda, who's visiting from Hyrule, and she realizes he could be really useful in helping her with her goals. Perhaps there's some sort of prophecy or old legends about past conflicts and Zelda realizes Link fits the image of the hero in these legends/prophecies to a T. Or maybe he's just a well known adventurer in the kingdom and she realizes his skills could come in handy in helping her find *insert magical artifacts found in dungeons for plot reasons here*
@@Hero_of_Storms Existing Zelda games have kinda already had Link as an outsider to the kingdom before. TP's Ordon Village and BotW/TotK's Hateno Village were both remarked on in their games for being so distant and isolated. Both locations rarely ever interacted with the greater kingdom. In TP the kingdom was conquered and plunged into darkness first and then Ordon got caught up in it afterwards as the Bulblin forces swept through distant podunk middle of nowhere towns outside of Hyrule. In BotW's back story Hateno was one of the places that saw the least amount of carnage either directly from the calamity itself or indirectly from the rampage of the rogue Guardians because it was such an out of the way little side note outside the heart of the kingdom. Heck, we can look at OoT's Kokiri Village as well. That game's Link being some lost Hylian child that the forest folk took under their care doesn't change the fact that the Kokiri lived in isolation from the kingdom outside their forest. The Deku Tree protected them in there and wouldn't let anybody get in or out. Even in frickin' TWW with its vast open sea and suspiciously evenly-spaced scattering of little islands, Outset Island was presented as some small ****hole on the fringe while the real heart of the new world order was in the city on Windfall Island.
But yeah, the series could do more to expand its vision of the world beyond just "belongs to Hyrule" and "sits just outside the fringes of Hyrule". Show us more foreign nations with power and influence that can rival Hyrule's. Especially with more recent games firmly wrapping up the Gerudo as close allies of Hyrule just the same as the Zora and Gerudo instead of having them as a hostile force. That leaves room for some new hostile neighbor to step in.
It has been rare that they ever drop any hint of anything beyond whatever currently counts as "belongs to Hyrule" ever being relevant. We know the names Holodrum and Labrynna from the Oracles games, of course. Those are actual foreign lands somewhere out there. And in TotK Sidon's fiance comes from some foreign Zora kingdom that we know nothing about. And... most other examples have been some sort of dream world or pocket dimension or alternate reality or whatever else.
But it would do more to flesh out the world beyond Hyrule if they did as has been suggested here. Anchor the centerpoint of a whole adventure in some new foreign land. Immerse us in the worldview of that kingdom for a while. And once we've become accustomed to that region of the world, then start laying down hints that establish a connection from there to Hyrule. Maybe at some point we're in a port town on a western shoreline and we see some pirate ships approaching from the west and before they get close enough that people can tell that it's pirates maybe you hear remarks like "Must be trade ships. It's funny though, I didn't think that any ships from Port Necluda were scheduled to arrive today." Just that little name drop and we can imagine a new coastal settlement built in the Necluda region we saw in BotW/TotK, like if the people of Tarrey Town decided to build something over by the spiral peninsula to their east. And it'd establish that the people in this foreign town we're visiting regularly make deals with them.
Honestly if they wanna continue with Zelda as the playable protag the diplomatic journey across kingdoms would be interesting to explore, as long as Zelda does not feel weak, like say the Royal family gave her lessons in swordplay as they can't have their princesses going around defenseless even if they have royal guards protecting her. Or you could have her use magic which one of the magics could be a spell for enhanced physical strength so she could actually do swordplay as Zelda has always been a mage so flushing that out more would be interesting
Learn a thing or two from Impa and maybe play as Sheik in combat.@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena
Not only do we need a new land to explore in the next fully-3D Zelda, but new species to meet as well. One of the biggest weaknesses BOTW and TOTK had was that, despite the emphasis on exploration and discovery, said sense of discovery was weakened by the reuse of familiar species. Zora, Gorons, Rito, Gerudo and Koroks aren't new. All we got were the Zonai and Yiga-faithful.
Not only do we need to see new species and races, but if Nintendo ARE going to reuse any, it should be lesser-utilised ones, like the pig-mole creatures from Skyward Sword, or the Yeti from Twilight Princess.
Having some familiar elements here and there is nice and all, like with Link's Awakening, but when familiar is all you have, there's a big problem.
Echoes of Wisdom did a good job of bringing back some deeper cuts from across the series for both NPCs and enemies. For instance, they did bring back the Yeti from Twilight Princess, and pulled from *Zelda II* with Arurodas, who hadn't been brought back before, as well as the oft-ignored Capcom games with Smog.
No, Tri Force Heroes really have a unique setting that I wish more people could enjoyed in its time, all have this magical even maybe theatrical setting and the entire game is another kingdom entirely apart from Hyrule, no old place hat you could see, is all new. I wish more people played the game because (despite nobody playing in Local Multiplayer) even in single player the game is very good and more people should talk about it(except the story, the trash goes to the trash container)
They could always make a game that does not focus on the triforce trio. They have such a vast, multi-timeline universe. Games about other characters. Whether they be side characters or brand new ones. Would be refreshing!
Nintendo was pitched a spin-off game featuring Sheik at one point (yes, Sheik is technically Zelda but she's Zelda's alter-ego so I'd say it counts). The game's concept art is still floating around the internet, it's pretty cool.
Y’know, with how much Metroid also likes to reuse story beats like Samus losing her armor, enemies like Metroids and Ridley, etc. It never really ran into the same problem. We’ve had a couple repeating locations, but more often than not a new game is set on a new planet
To be fair, a significant proportion of the old planets no longer exist...
It helps that Metroid cares about its story continuity and doesn't kill and resurrect its entire main cast every 1-2 games
@@thekiss2083 Zelda and Metroid have very different approaches to their continuity. Zelda is anthology style reincarnation/prophetic cycles, while Metroid is continuity style in a universe that happens to have a whole lot of ways to avoid death. Ridley is supposedly killed and then reintroduced so many times throughout the series, for one example. In some ways I actually prefer how Zelda does it, just hang a lampshade on it and don’t even pretend to have continuity style storytelling. As Arlo has expounded on in the past, trying to make it so that Samus loses her abilities at the start of each game leads to some fairly eye-roll-inducing moments
@@thekiss2083Except for Ridley
Honestly. My main want in a new Zelda game to avoid stagnation, is to have the roles move around. The only bits locked in are the blood of the goddess and a male Gerudo. I want a trio fighting against a doomed fate, trying their best to break the curse, just for it to tragically come to fruition once again
You reminded me of the animated series by Major Link, and the web comic where Zelda & Ganon try to get married to stop the cycle. Both great creative fan works.
Honestly a game where either Link or Zelda end up becoming the corrupted antagonist sounds incredibly interesting. Too risky for Nintendo though.
@@Days2Months
Echoes did that with Link. He was an echo, but that's still pretty close.
Zelda in 2002: Hyrule is gone, it's never coming back, and that's ok. Good, even.
Zelda in 2024: You will never escape Hyrule. It will never die and that's a good thing.
14:34 Ahhh. I get why you are craving a new environment. It's the only way to get current age Nintendo to invest some time in developing proper worldbuilding an a narrative. They can't skip on fleshing out a new area! LOL
Honestly the thing that TotK made me want was a "retelling" of Majora's Mask since TotK felt very much like Ocarina of Time in a sense. I'd love to see if the mask got up to some mischief in the past before it got sealed away; though another thing I was thinking about was the map from Zelda 2 which was the Hyrule of the first game but expanded even beyond that.
Also kind of curious if Ganon has to sprout up in Hyrule; yes, there's the whole destiny thing and Ganondorf must be a Gerudo but given we know there's Zora outside of Hyrule and the Gerudo did have to leave Hyrule before, so why can't it be the case that for once the threat of Ganon sprouts up somewhere else and invades Hyrule? It'd be interesting to explore and protect Hyrule and then continue beyond it's bounds into this new kingdom which has been overtaken.
But it is "The Hyrule Fantasy"! This was the original name. But true for a BOTW style game, other countries would be needed.
Please let us rest, Arlo, This is like the fourth video! 😭 lol
let HIM rest
But THIS is an Arlo video, not a TopicArlo 😂 but I thought the same
man's getting that december ad money 🫡
First video in over a week
@dominicyeomans8107 4th with TopicArlo today
Can we get a Twilight Princess Sequel set exclusively in the Twilight Realm where Link and Midna meet up?
Crying for this!
Something I found so cool in Zelda lore in the early 2000's, before the timeline was better established, was the concept that Link did his adventure in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, then went to explore these other lands - Link's Awakening, and the Oracle games feature the same guy. Maybe for the 3rd Breath of the Wild style game, Hyrule is in a decent state of rebuilding, I like your idea with the modern temples, but maybe Hyrule wants to reach out to other kingdoms for trade or rebuilding or whatever.
Your video also reminds me of the disappointment I felt playing Batman Arkham Origins, the concept of Black Mask hiring 8 assassins to kill Batman in one night was so cool. And then the twist reveal was so disappointing, throwing that cool concept out the window because of "familiarity" or whatever excuse.
The thing is, if we look at all the games with new places, all of them were direct sequels featuring the same Link as an earlier game. Zelda 2 expanded onto other islands or continents outside of Hyrule, Link's Awakening was ALttP Link, the Oracle games were, at the time, implied to be as well (and even if a coherent Zelda timeline existed at Nintendo, I doubt Capcom really had to consider it), Majora's Mask was OoT Link and PA was WW Link. TotK was the perfect opportunity to expand into new lands with new peoples with their own lore (like the Zonai), but because the whole gimmick from the start was reusing the old map but adding new stuff to it to save development time or costs, we got stuck with that. Until we have another sequel like that again, I don't see a new world happening.
I mean they could technically set a game with Link living in another land despite being a hylian. Zelda is kinda stuck to Hyrule because of who she is to the kingdom (literally the princess) but Link isn't really bound to something like this
There’s one possibility for them to get away with another Hyrule for the next one: let us watch the downfall of Hyrule *during* the actual game, instead of taking place before the game (WW, TP, BotW/TotK), off-screen (OoT) or not at all (SkSw). In all of these games Hyrule is either at the beginning of a decline or has already experienced it, but we’re never there for the actual events. I know they tried to show a version of the Imprisoning War in TotK, but Link’s actions have nothing to do with that. It’s always removed. Let us see how Ganondorf takes over the land, how once-prosperous towns get destroyed, how holy sites are corrupted by his evil powers. Not that the games should be necessarily more violent or go into rated M territory or something, but the one thing I hear constantly since Majora’s Mask came out is “Zelda is great when it deals with dark themes”. So why not lean into that with a Zelda game that shows all of that happening *directly*? The BotW memories were the closest we got so far.
Or lets stop pretending Zelda has a timeline.
@@JazGalaxy What would that solve really? There would still be a problem that Hyrule feels like a over used concept especially recent games. So it won't actually solve anything as Hyrule feels like a stagnant concept that they are afraid to experiment with different kingdoms or lands these days. Like the last 3D Zelda was actually before Breath of the Wild was Twilight Princess in 2006 not counting the remakes of the 3D games from 2011-2016, and even then most of the 2D Zeldas or top down view aside from Phantom Hourglass took place in Hyrule during that time frame so it's been a long time people are getting burned out on Hyrule itself
this is a good point. I think Zelda just has an issue with letting the villain be a fleshed out character who plays an ACTIVE role in the story. Like in Twilight princess, ganon may have set off the events, but he doesn’t really do anything until the end and doesn’t have a connection to Link that fosters the rivalry.
@@spoon7053 In the manga it shows how he remembers that Link from oot killed him and now he holds a grudge and can't tell the differences between the Links. Like near the end of the Manga Ganondorf just brutally tortures Link mentally and actually over powers him until he is blinded by rage as the resolve and not wanting to give up reminded him of oot Link
Literally he was a menace and during the siege of Hyrule Castle all of the towns were being attacked by monsters at the same time and everyone thought they were going to die, so the logical conclusion Link thought was kill Ganondorf and the attacks stop
Like the Manga did way more to flush it out and make Ganondorf seem like a force of nature as if it was not his blind rage at the end he literally would have killed Link
5:36 Yet another reason Majora’s Mask is the best
Yeah it's definitely in the top 5 if not top 3 best. I actually liked it better than ocarina of time
TP goated imo
This is the fourth Arlo video posted today!! Great way to start the week
“How could they possibly bring us to Hyrule again”
- me crying in a corner still waiting for Minish Cap and Twilight Princess Remake or Sequel
If you had put out this video a few years ago, I would have disagreed with you. I think after so many Zelda games throughout the 2000s taking place in new kingdoms, I was perfectly content going back to Hyrule for awhile. Majora's Mask, Ocracle games, and the DS games take place in new lands as you mentioned, but even Wind Waker and Skyward Sword I'd argue don't *really* take place in Hyrule. They touch on Hyrule, but they're not just the same locales for umpteenth time- the ocean and the sky feel like entirely new places. Same with Ganon- after a lot of new villains like Zant, Malladus, Ghirahim, and Yuga, I was perfectly happy to see Ganon again. I liked seeing Hyrule and Ganon as the series was going through its big formula shake up with BotW and TotK, because with the series changing so drastically in its ideas, it was great to still have that sense of familiarity.
After playing Tears of the Kingdom though, I'm satisfied in that regard now. I'm definitely ready for a new kingdom to explore and a new villain, so I'm with you now!
right, im not sick of hyrule but deffenitly in for a new game format, also i really dont need the map to be that big and the options to be that many, a more oldschool linear story would be fine for me, ofcourse with still enough to explore, especially if you have a new map and a diffrent story, you wont need such a big map because itll be enough to take in as it is.
also i want kid link again, that storyline is one of my favorites and i just miss him lol!
havent played echoes yet but i do like that were gonna play zelda for the first time, as a women that would be so much fun honestly so maybe some more play with that too
I feel like hyrule isn’t the problem. The problem is Nintendo reusing assets. For example wind waker was in hyrule yet felt nothing like oot due to the ocean.
I'm one of the people who didn't like Wind Waker *because* it was nothing like OoT lol. I actually like the artstyle, but didn't like the ocean-based adventure
Twilight Princess being more similar to Ocarina of Time made it my favorite 3D Zelda for the longest time lol
Let's not forget that new talents at Nintendo put Mario in the Flower Kingdom! So I'm positive there's a bunch of developers at Nintendo still liking the traditional Zelda's but wanting to move it to a new location. It's bound to happen!
I've... had my on thoughts on the matter; Geographically, speaking.
Like...?
Termina, but the rought size of BOTW/TOTK Hyrule?
-What would that place look like 'now' ? ;~;
[_The North, East, and South, (kind of?) of termina being land-locked?]
>the Map itself being rotated 90° to better match-up with the compass rose?
>N.> "Death Mountain" being a near-frozed wasteland like what the Rito went through in TOTK?
>E.> ??? -Beats me... ...! The Gorons!
Maybe they took up 'some' places Outside the valley, ^ (maybe) Because their old ancestral home got too cold?...
>S.> River Zora that now live in the swamps?
>W.> the Golden Age of "Amazon Women" Pirates!? (Hummmmm...)
*Seafarers that Might be divied by driving principles of greed and thievery {Ganon/dorf?**}, vs. Honor and protection, (sisterhood? (Comradery?)) {Warrior code of honors?} (**HOW would that even workout with a laid-back fisherman???)
Good video, Arlo. (:
A concept similar to termina from majora's mask would fit perfectly for an open world, since they want to continue with that formula
Obviously we would need to exclude the time mechanic, that wouldn't really fit the open world, however collecting different things like the masks that give you different buffs or even transformations, imagine rolling around the fields of an unknown world as a goron or exploring underwater ruins as a zora, or going to sky islands as a rito, only being able to fit into small spaces as a korok or only being able to traverse the lost woods as one
I think we really need more creativity in the zelda series, yes, the build mechanic was really creative, but if you give unlimited creativity, people will just find the best way to do a certain task, if you give limited creativity, you have a higher chance of people paradoxicly searching or finding more creative ways to do certain things
7:55 very good clip, thank you for including this
We have hyrule, Lorule (which can also be the dark world), the great sea, holodrum, Koholint Island, Skyloft, Termina (which is another Hyrule), Hytopia, New Hyrule from Spirit Tracks, the world of the Ocean King...and more lands of Hyrule than I bother to count....yeah that's a lot of times we stay in hyrule
Don't forget Labrynna
dude no temrina si not hyurle even zelds manga syas its not
Termina is not Hyrule in the slightest. The people seem similar, but their world couldn’t be more different
I would love to see a Zelda game all about breaking the cycle. Purposefully pitting both heroes and villains alike against their shared destiny with different, opposing motivations that harken back to their free will.
Gonna just posit some ideas below.
Zelda’s wisdom informs her of the futility of their actions. She seeks a permanent answer to all the cycles of hatred.
Link has the courage to find a world untouched by the cycle. Yearning to be something other than another Link in the chain.
Ganon/Ganondorf craves power over his fate. He challenges the notion that he’s doomed to be defeated by seeking a new way forward by aligning himself with a new force.
Obviously, Nintendo wouldn’t stray these characters too far away from their templates or their chosen tri-force pieces, so I tried to stay within those guidelines while providing potential for a new kind of ending.
I think you're reading way too into what Zelda is. Zelda is a simple fairy tale. It's not a deep existential story about the nature of good and evil and fate and destiny. You go to Final Fantasy for that.
@@JazGalaxy Zelda can breathe in nuance as well. I'm not talking about anything particularly revolutionary.
The Zelda Cycle is directly addressed by Demise in Skyward Sword, so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to have a game fighting against the very curse that clings to them. Each Zelda game has a different version of Link, Zelda and Ganon's motivations, while largely maintaining a version of their assigned Tri-Force piece.
Playing with fate and destiny is partially what made Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask so impactful. It's reductive to say that Zelda can't talk about those themes while still maintaining its lighthearted and fun world.
I would, however, agree that Final Fantasy is more likely to explore such themes in a complex and existential way.
It would just be fun to see another spin on what Zelda could be. Using another core aspect of the series to further evolve in the same way that Breath of the Wild harkened back to Zelda 1's exploration roots.
"Land and sky... And seas yearn...
Finish the cycle of eternal return..."
Also, I think this is why Cia (from Hyrule Warriors) is one of my favorite Zelda characters, even if she's a spin-off character. With so much of Zelda being themed around fate and destiny, it's very refreshing to view a character in that world attempting to challenge her own fate. Granted, Ganon did pervert her desires into a crazed obsession with Link, but Link was the catalyst for Cia to desire something more than to be an eternal watcher of the multiverse.
It is a shame, though, that she eventually resigns to her duty after she has seen the damage she has done (albeit, with a more positive outlook and a sister), but Cia was still a rare Zelda case of a character outwardly defying the role that life has given her. It would be interesting to see a dynamic like this emerge again, especially if it were to appear in a mainline Zelda game.
I think the reason Tears of the Kingdom turned out the way it did (unfinished, very reuse heavy), is because the Zelda team was making a second game during at least a decent part of its development. I mean we know Grezzo was making Echoes of Wisdom during TotK's development, and probably a small part of the Zelda team was taking care of that. But I think another part of the team was making a third game, one that is supposed to come out for the Switch 2, at the very least since 2022.
Nintendo, from what we can gather behind the scenes, was going to release the Switch 2 this year, 2024. And of course, they want to repeat the success the Switch had, which in part was because it had a mainline Mario and Zelda game at, or near launch. So they knew that they had to have a Zelda game at the very least in the first few years of the Switch 2's life. But they knew that these big Zelda games take years and years to develop. And the team was already occupied doing a second Zelda for the Switch. So what do they do?
I think, they split apart the team, probably around 2020, and began development on the next Zelda game. Concept artists, game designers, 3d modelers, programmers, etc, who maybe still could have done more work on TotK were sent to work on the next game, which of course needed to be made from near scratch, and the rest of team, was tasked to finish a game that still had very little new content. I believe that's why the map remains so unchanged, why the game lacks more character interactions, better dungeons, everything it is missing. The team that worked on it was smaller, so they had to find a way to provide content without making a ton of actual new stuff. So a ton of reused assets and ideas were used. Add to that the ultrahand mechanic that probably was added at the beginning of development and was planned to be used in many more interesting ways, but then half the staff left and so had to be made to function correctly by the rest of the team... yeah. It feels unfinished, because it probably was all the team could do in the time they had. Just making it work was probably more than enough work for them.
This is honestly the one explanation I can think of for this game to be released in the state it is. We know the team spent the last year of its development just fixing bugs (and it's not like the whole team can do that), so we know when at the very least the next Zelda game development began. And it makes complete sense, since Nintendo probably wants a new mainline Zelda game for the Switch 2 in the next few years. In fact, the next Zelda game taking so long to make (as the B team was finishing TotK) could be one of the reasons the Switch 2 itself was delayed till 2025. Time will tell, but if the next mainline Zelda game comes out in the next 2-3 years, they definitively were working on it during TotK development, and in turn, hurt the development of TotK.
My husband and I just tried to make a campaign setting featuring many of the same regions in the BOTW map, using dice to randomize (multiple different types of dice in different configurations, including throwing them on a map to determine their placement). We tried *five times* to shuffle it around enough to not essentially resemble it within an 80% accuracy, and it was almost always *exactly the same* just rotated in different cardinal directions.
I don't mind familiarity when there are enough details to make it different--heck, EoW's map is essentially the same in broad strokes as BOTW--but that doesn't mean we can't go beyond Hyrule to have an adventure featuring Link when the precedent's already there. Fans have been clamoring for years for at least a spiritual if not literal return to some of the more obscure lands and characters, and I think it's about time for that.
I'll make the argument that it doesn't really matter. Termina and Koholint both still could have just been "Hyrule." Both had your forest zone, your mountain zone, your water zone. Great Bay being ocean set it apart from Lake Hylia, but Echoes gave us its own Zora ocean area. What really makes scaling TalTal Heights different from Death Mountain? The thing that sets those apart from the rest in my opinion, isn't the fact that it's not Hyrule, but that the writing and characters were so much more endearing.
Exactly what I was thinking! 100% agree. In most of these games Hyrule is different every time, it shares some elements but it's not the same Hyrule each time. It's just a name.
Nowadays they definitely cannibalized the snowy mountains and Jungles into Hyrule, but Termina did them first. And Hyrule still doesn‘t have a spooky red canyon. Even though they tried making Gerudo Desert more haunted in Echoes.
I mean, I’d go further and say I’m sick of games reusing the same biomes and not doing something interesting. Like sure, I expect some of it, but it gets tiring how all we get are “grassy, fire, water, snow, desert” levels and there isn’t really a twist or some other made up area except for a fire/ice combo level or some sort of dark world. Or you’ll get one unique setting for one chapter/world and that’s about it. It’s all so bland. The Lanayru Mines in SS essentially made a desert/water level. It’s not even a new biome, but just a different combination made it stand out.
Although, even with the case of “Termina could’ve been called Hyrule” (etc), the difference there is at least the architecture and whatnot changes more significantly. It’s not like they just made Hyrule Castle and moved a few blocks around. So it’s not just the characters or writing.
My first five Zelda games were Link’s Awakening, Ocarina, Majora, and the Oracles, so I had a very different impression about the nature of the setting for this series… thought it was almost a given that each game would introduce a new land. Felt very moved when Wind Waker offered a glimpse of a familiar place, then said it was time to let go of it. And then just about every subsequent Zelda was Hyrule Hyrule Hyrule.
So this rant is familiar to me! Lately though, I accept the repeated elements a lot more since the series reads to me like a Groundhog Day story, reflected by MM’s premise, with Link stuck in a karmic loop until he wakes up. I’ve come to really appreciate the artistry of this aspect.
But I love setting out into the unfamiliar, too.
I was thinking "the heck is Arlo talking about" - until I noticed that I've started all Zelda games since Breath of the Wild, but haven't played any of them for more than an hour.. and reflecting about why, it's actually because it was in Hyrule and I was kind of sick of it - but I didn't realize it back then ^^'
Note: I really loved Wind Waker - not being in Hyrule did confuse me back then, but I loved it. And I loved it even more when I then got to Hyrule later on. I would love if they did that more - having other locations and if they really want to, let us go to Hyrule for a part of the game (not the whole game)
I never realized how badly I want another new location for a zelda game. Would LOVE to go back to terminus, but yes a new location. Its time
Honestly, Hyrule is so vastly different from game to game that it doesn't feel like returning to the same place. I actually find it refreshing when I play a game like Tears of the Kingdom or A Link Between Worlds, and I walk into a Hyrule where I actually know where I'm going. I like that feeling of "I've been here before, I know this place, I can't wait to see what's changed". But they so rarely give that to us. Hyrule in The Hyrule Fantasy, The Adventure of Link, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, The Minish Cap, Twilight Princess, and Breath of the Wild is a TOTALLY different place in each game. Almost nothing about those maps is even slightly similar. Not to mention Skyward Sword being set in a land that isn't Hyrule yet, and Wind Waker being set in a land (well, a sea) that isn't Hyrule anymore. None of these game worlds have anything in common. So they don't feel like returning to Hyrule, they feel like a totally new Hyrule every time. Only A Link Between Worlds, Tears of the Kingdom, and Echoes of Wisdom bring us back to a Hyrule we already know. I want MORE of that. In particular, I want to go back to the Hyrule from Ocarina of Time, but with modern graphics, more open exploration, and with an expanded map similar to Echoes of Wisdom.
Lets go back to Termina
Yes, but if the moon's back I'm giving Dr.Eggman a call, why bother with Giant's when you can just aim higher.
I want transformations again
I'd love to see what a modern version of Ikana Canyon would look like
Nah that would just make Majora's Mask less unique. We need to visit a brand NEW area.
You mentioned a "Sci-Fi Future Zelda" and I got all excited for a moment. Then I remembered that the Jak and Daxter series did exactly that progression and how that turned out, and got sad.
The difference is that Jak changed its entire identity in one game. Zelda already has the bones and build up for a futuristic game with sheika and zonai tech, not to mention the time shift robots. Everything is already set and waiting
@@BlanexBlzall the futuristic stuff is what I really don’t care for at all when it comes to Zelda. I guess it’s because I’ve grown up with all the old games, but it just rubs me the wrong way. I was so interested in the zonai with BotW but when tears came out and they actually got introduced along with their tech and back story I was really disappointed.
@@BlanexBlz No, it has gone too far. That's like saying there should be a full on adult rated sex game as a focus for Zelda because Oracle of Ages had a brief scene of Zelda kissing Link. Sci Fi is not the focus of the series. Tears of the Kingdom crossed the line. Why does Zelda need to even exist anymore if it is just going to become Metroid?
@Luxembourgish I never said I agreed with it, just that the bones are there. I personally would prefer to go back to the roots of link being a knight in a fantasy world without the crazy tech
@@BlanexBlz Oh, my mistake. Sorry
19:13 you say one or two adventures so to put that into perspective you mean from 7 to 15 years. I don't know if we'll be alive by then
How old are you that you think you won’t be around in 15 years? It’s not like it’s releasing in 2100.
I'll only be 31-39. People don't normally die by then
Starts at 1:53 holy shit the intro is way too long this time
I love Arlo but as time goes on I am getting more sick of ads and the biggest pet peeve right now is when sponsor ad reads are the very first thing in a video. Makes me feel like the sponsor is the most important thing here, its the first impression. It really rubs me the wrong way and I want to stop watching videos that do this.
@@AceBattleStormI’d rather at the beginning. Usually much easier to tell when the ad is over, and less annoying that randomly stopping in the middle of a video for a forced segue.
Guys its 2 minutes. You cant sit through or skip passed 2 minutes?
Before we begin, before we begin
This is why Majora's Mask is still the most enduring and best Zelda game that I return to regularly
More than anything, though, I just want the old zelda gameplay formula to return in some form or fashion. If another BOTW-style game comes out I think I actually might literally not play it. I couldn't be arsed to finish TOTK
I have to disagree with you there, especially on the reused locations thing, because other than names NONE of the locals in Zelda ever feel the same really. Death Mountain in TLOZ, OOT, BOTW and TP all feel completely different, with their only similarity being that they're voclanos
I agree, it's name only, obviously we don't want a reused map again
Yea but you already know there's going to be a volcano, a big desert, a water kingdom. It may be set up differently but there's no wonder from expecting different locales. You can't go "maybe they won't be a volcano this time, maybe there'll be a mountain constantly struck by lightning or something but nope I always know it'll be a lava mountain. Take Elden Ring's Shadow of the Erdtree as good example of sequel content just being 100% different with no way to know what to expect.
Or Xenoblade X shaking stuff up making the "white area" not a snow field but instead a big mushroom-like biome. I would've never had that same sense of wonder if I had to expect the same locales every game like with Zelda.
Easy solution: Get Big N to release the Oracle Collection. I’ll bet you anything they’ve already made it and are just sitting on it.
I always think it’s cool to leave Hyrule for a game, but I don’t share this boredom. Most of the games still feel plenty different to me. Just because there’s a place called death mountain doesn’t make breath of the wild feel anything like ocarina of time for me.
I really want a Breath of the Wild/Tears of the kingdom mix with Wind waker style game.
Imagine link has to leave Hyrule for some reason. Exploring this vast ocean full of islands. But I’m not talking small rock islands like wind waker had. I’m talking multiple Koholint sized islands and then some. And as link travels around for whatever reason, he’s also becoming the hero and savior of these islands. Gathering allies for whatever big, bad they face.
By proxy, if they bring back ultra hand, that’s how you could get around. Building your own ship. And as you complete quests on these islands, you get more parts to speed up your travel time. Players would have the option to explore around and have that freedom. Or you could choose the linear island hopping route, to get more parts which also gives Nintendo the opportunity of creating a more put together story
I have the same thought, i want to go somewhere completely new in the next Zelda. With new side characters as well.
But i know that won't happen
It would be really cool to have Zelda travel to another continent like Mario and Luigi games though
Or go on one of those Tom Nook mystery island tours.
Her and Link take a vacation/ have business to attend to somewhere else and she gets kidnapped
Maybe travel to a kingdom that used advanced tech (slightly more advanced than Sheika tech) and link has to adapt. Boom link with rocket boots unlocked
@@sirwaddleton7328 mario sunshine moment
I'd be fine with it if they pulled another Wind Waker and had the land of Hyrule undergo such a monumental change that it's hardly recognizable (Next 2d Zelda game, Hyrule is a jungle suddenly. Jungle Hyrule is mah dream). Also, if they want to make a Zelda game where you hop across the timelines, then yeah that would need to be Hyrule.
OTHER THAN THAT THOUGH, we really need a new locale. Especially for 3d Zelda. Although I know that a big problem here is exactly HOW they're going to take it somewhere new, since I feel like just having Link and Zelda conveniently showing up in some other Kingdom right when something bad happens and then killing their big bad for them would be cheesy and kinda anticlimactic for our first visit outside of Hyrule after so many years. Perhaps they could have the next game take place entirely on the sky islands, and have it explore a full populous Zonai Kingdom that existed ages before TOTK took place. Or mayhaps it could take place entirely in the depths. Or they could do something akin to what Majora's Mask and Phantom Hourglass did, and have the game take place in a weird alternate world. But of course if they can find a good excuse to have Link and Zelda haul themselves over to a neighboring kingdom that doesn't just feel like an excuse to get out of Hyrule for once, then I'd be thrilled.
You have been diagnosed with "I played too much Zelda". Please stop playing Zelda games for a while until you stop feeling that way.
Nah, I also love Zelda but would love another setting, like in Majora's Mask.
Nah, his complaints are valid. Every single mainline 3D Zelda title has taken place in Hyrule or some variation of it, with the only real exception being Majora's Mask.
@@Days2MonthsMeanwhile, Mario does the opposite, with the only 3d games set in the Mushroom Kingdom being 64 and 3d land, and absolutely no one complains about that
A thought I've had ever since playing Majora's Mask decades ago: It would be cool to have a game that connected Hyrule to the surrounding world. Imagine starting a Zelda game in a typical setting only to somehow get kicked out of the Kingdom and some magic dome surrounds it preventing you from going there. Could have a whole game about trying to return home.
following the logic of rescue->rebuild ->rediscovery. I can se a last part of a trilogy, following the steps of adult timeline, where now the kingdom is reconstructed, and is time to reconstruct communication with other kingdoms, probably following something akin to Mario Odyssey where is going to different closer or nearby kingdoms and help them with their won villains, as like BotW we got a lot of reference to old games, a game with reference of other kingdoms would be really cool, an desert island to the east where a volcano have the shape of a broken egg, a metropolis close to the norther mountains where their oldest historic building is a stone clock tower. and a climax, where they end up finding an far away kingdoms called Hyrule too, totally different from theirs. probably if the DS game had a better reception, we could has had that last expansion to the trilogy.