Galatians 5:16-26 New International Version 16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[a] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Speaking as a many decades practitioner of the Dharma (Buddhism), I would like to address this but I do not have enough information or context to do so. And so I can only mention at this time that "desire" is innate to being alive. No person can be without desire in the sense of it as being an "energy." In fact, desire is how we got here. And so "desire as the cause of suffering" has to be investigated deeply and explored very carefully and not just accepted at face value as a dogma or belief. Buddhism is really about investigating and exploring how this might (or might not) be the case within our own experience. In a way we could call this "deconstructing" desire in order to see if it's TRUE and how it might be true (or false) for it to be a cause of suffering. Ultimately, you might find that "desire" is something that is constantly changing form, and is never exhausted, and once you begin to see that and experience that "nature of desire" (which is merely an "energy") then you dont have to become a slave to the particular FORM that desire takes. It's not much different from "addiction therapy" in that regard. ❤🙏
Yep! I agree with this and then some. The bible speaks of desire in James 1:14-15. But also, was going to say, desire in Buddhism was not to be rid of it completely. But to acknowledge the nature of it, then to detach. And if you understood both the nature of that desire and the detachment. You attain the Buddhist version of grace. Not to mistake this grace for Nirvana, since from what i have learned in Buddhism, is that you save Nirvana for the moment you are supposed to pass onto the next life. To cancel out the reincarnation. I am not a full on Buddhist, but i have utilized some of their devices in my pursuit to treat mental illness through metaphysics.
Sympathetic outsider from Buddhism here. But I believe the best way to learn about a religion is not necessarily to learn from a believer, but rather to have an understanding of the original language. In terms of Buddhism, "suffering" is actually dukkha in the Pali language spoken by the Buddha, which doesn't have a direct translation into English. But imagine you're dragging a heavy wagon and a wheel gets stuck in the mud. No matter how hard you push or you pull, that wheel just won't get out of the mud. That mix of desperation, frustration and looming despair is dukkha. If you listen to a lot of Israeli songs that came out post October 7th, you'll hear lyrics like "My heart is with you in the sand and my head is in the clouds," or "I'm still wet from this October Rain." THAT is dukkha. Birth, death, old age, mourning and lamentation are dukkha. Hebrew and Pali have different ways of describing dukkha, but both worldviews see the inevitability of it. Our longings and cravings, some of which are natural and even selfless, are the root cause of this dukkha. We may be carrying very precious cargo in that wagon, too valuable for us to give up on and yet too heavy to take out of the wagon. So we keep pulling because it's all we can do. Buddhism teaches renunciation. Judaism teaches those of us with lighter wagons, or stronger backs, assist those with weaker backs and/or heavier wagons. This isn't to say that Buddhism doesn't teach compassion (it does -- Metta is a Pali word that translates to the Hebrew word chesed, but doesn't translate to English at all, and it's an important form of compassion in both traditions) or that Judaism doesn't teach renunciation. I would say, though, that the emphasis is very different. I hope this makes sense. Also, all of those Pali terms have Sanskrit counterparts, but I know a little more about the Theravada tradition so my Sanskrit is way more rusty than my Pali.
I'm a Theravada Buddhist, which could be likened to a 'fundamentalist' approach in Western terms because we follow and practice the original Canon. In Buddhism, desire is seen as a root cause of suffering-whether the desire is fulfilled or not. When we base our lives on desires, we set ourselves up for dissatisfaction because the craving for something, or for a specific outcome, can never truly be satisfied. However, learning to not let desire guide my life does not mean I avoid working toward positive outcomes. For example, I can strive to do my best in school, not because I crave straight A's, but because doing my best is its own reward. By focusing on the effort rather than the result, I am able to approach the outcome with acceptance. If I truly give my best effort, then whatever grade I receive is the proper reward for that effort, and I can find peace with it. On the other hand, if my sole focus is on getting an A, I risk unhappiness no matter the outcome. If I get a B, I might feel devastated, thinking, 'No good college for me; my life is ruined.' Even if I get an A, the craving doesn't end-I'll wonder why I didn't aim for an A+, or perfect scores for the entire semester. In this way, desire perpetuates suffering, even when the initial goal is achieved.
Desiring to free oneself from desire is itself a desire, just as claiming that being non-judgmental is a good thing is an act of judgment itself. There is no escaping having desires or making judgments on this side of eternity. Wisdom and peace are achieved by fulfilling the desire to align ourselves with the transcendent author of the physical and moral laws that govern our universe.
"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever."
I think many misinterpret what Buddha meant. It is attachment to desire (specific outcomes) that is the issue. That is what makes one suffer. You can't help but to have desires, even if it were at least on a subtle level.
@@ricky6540 Owning a gun doesn't make you a gun criminal. Wanting something doesn't make you greedy. Having power will not 'always' lead to corruption. This is the basis of being an adult of good moral character; knowing where to apply one's self-discipline and self-control. Desire and want are required for someone to be a fully self-actualized human being. Otherwise you become just a bag of nihilistic apathy.
@@Zayphar@ricky6540 As a Buddhist, You two are right in different context. It all about knowing that you got such desire/want and think on it how you will go with it to not cause harm to other and you. Simply put, Don't over do it. The too loose/strict string teaching.
@@Zayphar I don’t know what your culture is or if you are religious or not to follow a religious teaching to become an adult but from a Buddhist perspective, desire and attachment-not desire itself-are the root of suffering, as taught in the Four Noble Truths. While owning a gun or holding power in itself isn't inherently problematic, attachment to these things and the desire for control can lead to harm, reinforcing the illusion of a permanent, separate self. Buddhism emphasizes that self-actualization is not about fulfilling desires, but about transcending them to awaken to the impermanent and interdependent nature of reality. An adult in Buddhism also embodies mental discipline-the ability to overcome negative emotions such as greed, anger, and ignorance-and to develop inner peace through practices like meditation. They are guided by the Noble Eightfold Path, which involves right understanding, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. Rather than acting impulsively or out of selfish desire. But every individual with their own truths has their own definition of what’s an adult. Just sharing mine.
It all depends on context. Ultimately, the goal is to move past seeing everything as merely good or bad, and to see things as they really are, and act accordingly. That's the true end of ignorance.
Thank you for sharing your reflections on Buddhism in this Fireside Chat. It’s always inspiring to see people engage with such profound teachings. However, I’d like to kindly offer some clarification on a few points regarding the Buddhist perspective, as described in the early texts. You mentioned that Buddhism teaches "all pain comes from desires and expectations" and that the solution is to eliminate them entirely. While this captures part of the teaching, it oversimplifies the Buddha's nuanced message. The Buddha taught that suffering (dukkha) arises from craving (tanhā), which is a specific kind of unwholesome, grasping desire. Not all desires are harmful-in fact, wholesome aspirations, such as the desire to cultivate wisdom, compassion, and virtue, are encouraged. The distinction lies in whether a desire leads to attachment or freedom. For instance, the Buddha spoke about skillful desires (kusala chanda) that propel us toward spiritual growth and liberation. Letting go of harmful expectations rooted in delusion is indeed liberating, but it’s not about abandoning all aspirations. The goal is to transform our relationship with desire and understand the impermanent nature of life. Your personal distinction between desires and expectations is insightful and resonates with certain aspects of Buddhism. I’d only encourage a deeper exploration of the teachings, especially the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path, which provide a more comprehensive view of reducing suffering. Thank you again for your thoughtful engagement with these ideas-it’s always wonderful to see these ancient teachings spark dialogue in modern times.
In Buddhist philosophy the quality’s of desire and pain both come from your own “side of things”. Your own karma and the events,objects inherent emptiness. It’s not nihilism, skillful means is right in line with the Golden Rule.
Isn't it wanting to have no desire a desire in itself? Expectations are fine and necessary, I expect the Bible to be true and I expect to meet my creator Jesus Christ when I die. Just like having the right desires are important so are the right expectations.
Exactly. You cannot have a moral and functional society without expectations. You expect people keep their promises as you pay the light bill the lights should work.
@shawnboahene5231 you missed the point. He means not to live from the ego. Of course we live a moral life because we are not egotistical. You totally misunderstood the point
One day, the light may not turn on. So long as you're not lying awake at night in a cold sweat dreading that eventuality, your expectations are reasonable.
Totally wrong on both counts. Desire and attahment are the soure of all suffering. That is not the same as saying desire and attachment are wrong or evil. Expectations shape reality, one way or another.
What most Buddhists don't learn is that it's mostly not desirable to remove suffering. A desire squashed causes suffering (to some degree) and that's what this is about. But to make suffering wrong is just plain silly: almost everything beautiful humans make or have made has its source in some kind or form of suffering.
I agree with this to certain degrees. I personally believe that all types of virtue are side-effects from pursuing self-determination. Without suffering, there is not enough raw material to be truly grounded enough to be able to relate to people through. Meaning, all of your wise words thus come across as either superficial, arrogant, or condescending.
The desire that cost you peace is the desire for things to be different than they are. That doesn't mean you don't change things it is about fighting reality as it exist in that moment. A quick comment on TH-cam is not the space to elaborate but know that is the essence of the teaching.
Exactly! I think the difference resides in the measure of being able to appreciate what you have. Even if it is momentary. Without this, you are left, desiring. And with that state of desire, you will most likely see reality idealistically than for what it actually is.
One thing I would add as someone who is actively trying to learn and live the Buddha's teachings (the Dharma), it isn't pain that Buddhism seeks to eliminate because its inevitable with a human body designed to feel pain. Buddhism is concerned about eliminating suffering, which is different and has more to do with how we perceive things, even how we perceive pain. Also, "Desire" is often said to be what Buddhism believes is the root of suffering, but after a lot of reading, I think the more accurate translation would be "craving" and/or "attachment", which the latter is mentioned constantly in Buddhism. You can desire good things, like following Buddhism or other religious belief system or philosophy to improve your life, but craving and attachment are very specific forms of desire that lead to flawed states of mind that in turn lead to suffering. I hope Dennis is doing better. I miss his voice.
As a Buddhist....one of the things you learn is that you live a good life and move towards enlightment. Whatever way you get there is up to you. You can believe in Jesus and his teaching, yet you can follow Buddha's teaching.
Buddhism and Jesus disagree on many fundamental levels: Humanity purifies itself through effort VS Humanity being helpless to purify itself The universe is divine and eternal VS The universe is created and needs renewal “God” is an impersonal force VS “God” is a person, with all that entails (technically one being that is simultaneously three persons, in a higher sense that we lower beings can fully understand) Jesus is merely a good teacher VS Jesus is the sole physical incarnation of “God”, who directly denounces anyone who disagrees with him as being untrue Salvation comes from lacking attachment VS Salvation comes from attaching to Jesus Nirvana is the denial of all desire VS Heaven is the fulfillment of all desire There are some superficial similarities between the two, but they lead in very different directions. Do not empty yourself spiritually and not fill your soul with your Creator’s light! Nature abhors a vacuum, and humanity is incapable of resisting evil’s entry alone.
If I stumble, and my knee is wounded, I feel pain. This pain _does not come from having a desire!_ So, what is the matter here? The pain is a natural reaction of the body. In fact, the pain is not caused by the damage itself, but by the action of the body to repair the wound. That this is so, one can have cancer, which means that many parts of the body are damaged, but one does not feel pain, because the body is not repairing this damage. What The Buddha was referring to was not _pain, but _sufferiung!_ (Dukkha) There is a difference between pain and suffering. If I have cancer, and feel no pain, the very knowledge that I have cancer can cause suffering. This is because I realize that _my life expectancy has become shorter!_ And _because_ I was _attached_ to the original life expectancy, this realization causes _suffering!_ Also, pain as such can become a source of pleasure. If I have cancer, and feel no pain, I suffer. If a surgeon comes to me, he offers an operation which, when successful will cause me to feel pain. But if it is not successful, it will not result in pain. So, I undergo the operation, and lo and behold, the operation causes pain, which means that I am freed from cancer. This pain will therefore cause me _to become happy!_ Buddha's insight into the connection between attachment (dukkha) and suffering is correct. However, it can lead to the mistake that one must avoid all attachment. If one does, one has no ambition whatsoever any more. And that will, ultimately, *_TURN US INTO PLANTS!_* You can see this in the life of Buddha himself. He, and his followers could not come up with anything better than _ becoming beggars!_ And that is _one step closer to become plants!_ So, Buddhism is basically _a poison!_ It _destroys_ our very humanity! Not that the understanding of Buddha is wrong. But _the conclusion_ that the goal of life is just _to get rid of all suffering is *_DEAD WRONG!!!_* A better attitude is as follows. Just like pain is not caused by damage, but is the indirect by-efdfect of the body trying to repair itself, so _suffering_ is a token that one is _set to a certain way!_ It shows that there is a conflict to one's view on life and what life really is. Therefore, one should consider suffering not as something to get rid of, but to _embrace it!_ One should see suffering as _a teacher, a starting point to think and reconsider one's desires, to see whether they can be realized!_ And if you can't, then you must not try to just eliminate those desires, and keep it at this, but to choose _other things to desire_ which can be _new ways of thinking!_ To give an example. If one tries even to solve a mathematical problem, and one fails to do that, one can come to the conclusion that the amount of mathematical background one has is insufficient to solve the problem. So this 'suffering' of not being able to solve the problem, even though one _desires_ to solve it, must not lead to _abandoning_ the problem, but to _educate oneself, or train oneself, until with the expanded mathematical capabilities one can solve it!_ Therefore, suffering _is not something negative one should seek to eliminate totally!_ No, one should see suffering _as part of our lives!_ As _information sources_ telling us that we are inadequate, and must seek some capability, some skill, some realization which gives us _the power_ to overcome the source of our suffering. For somebody who has cancer, this means that he must learn to go so deep into himself, that his mind undergoes a transformation so that he lives _totally_ in the present. This eliminates the fear of death, the suffering of one's realization of one's own mortality, because of a simple principle: If one exists, there is no death, so there is no problem. If one is dead, there is no existence, because one returns to the situation before the egg cell one has grown out of had been fertilized, and therefore one didn't exist either. Or, more simply, if one has a very limited time span to live, the ultimate is: when one exists, dead is not. And when one has died, existence is not.
Christo-Buddhist here. Suffering is caused by excess desire & expectations onto oneself & others around them. On the other hand, the lack of desire with no expectations can also cause suffering to oneself & others, because we are all interconnected. The main idea of Buddhism is the prepare for the worst, while hoping for the best, all while maintaining equanimity (inner peace) along the way; this is similar to Christianity's 'God will provide what you need, but you must also work for it'
For me, if it's a good desire like wanting to raise good children, friendship and giving back to the community, then that shouldn't be a problem. If it is selfish desires like addiction of drugs, money, sex and power, to which has a negative impact sooner or later, then that is the desire that needs to be checked and taken cautiously. That's my opinion really.
That's one point that can be derived from the parable of the Rose Apple tree: that there are wholesome unwholesome desires. Technically all Buddhists desire enlightenment in one sense of the word, but that's not the same sense that's used to discuss desire leading to Dukkha. Two other English terms should accompany desire: craving and obsession, which makes the Paali term (directly translated as thirst) more clear. Thich Nhat Hanh's eating an orange makes a similar point. Although if you really get into the sticks, anything, good or bad; that would keep you in the cycle of rebirth will lead to suffering, and the ultimate goal is effectively to die and stay dead.
Our nature is to be enjoyed not the enjoyer. Our desire dovetail with pleasing God's transcendental desire for us brings joy in whatever situation we have. We need guardians and have to have a superior agent benignly Benedicting us with grace. God is the ultimate hero of the soul able to reciprocate all loving dealings, cross all boundaries to love us.
I quit dating about 7 yrs ago, i have 0 desire to have a relationshp and thus i am happy being single, most people who are single desire a relationship and that is why they feel bad
We can agree to disagree, Sir. 25 year Buddhist here. I'm afraid you're oversimplifying this, therefore getting it wholly wrong. I recommend that if you're going to address Buddhism, bring on someone who is familiar with the Pali Canon and the teachings. Many thanks!
Just because you cant do something it doesnt mean its impossible, i could say lifting 400 lbs is impossible but some dudes can probably do it Expectations are normal, but that doesnt mean anything other than just that
It isn't that we shouldn't desire things, it's that we shouldn't want something so badly that we HAVE to have it, which leads to disappointment, envy, stealing, murder, etc.. This is another way of expressing "you shall not covet "
The Stoics recognize that our OPINION of "things that happen to us" causes us more problems than the things that happen themselves. Everything with which you are challenged is an opportunity or a curse, depending on your *perspective.*
Pain/suffering is not caused by desire/expectation. It is rooted in the ignorance of interdependent origination. Specifically, the contaminated view that the object of one's desire exists inherently. The belief that the one experiencing desire (the 'self') is inherently existent is also a contaminated view.
The A.A program teaches you do not have expectations or reservations by expecting anything in life no matter how small even if you know it’s 100% will lead to great disappointment in the end
My wife is Buddhist/Shintoist. They have 10,000 gods - a god of rain and god of dancing and god of safe driving and money and a god of frogs and trees and flowers and dirt and air. I asked her "who's in charge?" She shrugged. 30 Years, still waiting for answer.! hehe
_"A life without emotion is no life at all... but to be controlled by emotion is to be consumed by it."_ "Desire" is an emotion. The AA method of treatment is to take it to zero, under the concept that, if it cannot be indulged at the appropriate levels, then set consumption to zero. This isn't terrible, but it's misapplied to both emotion and food. And I mention 'food' because an addiction to heroin or alcohol or any other drug - legal or otherwise - can be addressed through total abstinence... but not with food. You have no choice with food - if you don't have a healthy relationship with food, your only two options are to _GET_ a healthy relationship, or remain overweight.... because cutting it out of your life isn't an option. Same for emotion, despite what the Buddhists say.
I think the desires he listed are actually hopes. Also, having hopes or desires that involve outcomes for other people (such as your kid's life) are especially bad, we have no idea what will make them happy or fulfilled. You may find that your hopes and your child's hopes don't actually align.
With regard to expectations: “The worldly hope men set their hearts upon turns ashes--or it prospers; and anon, like snow upon the desert's dusty face, lighting a little hour or two--is gone.” Expectations are either frustrated, or they are met and do not provide the anticipated happiness. So the abandonment of all expectations is a huge step in the reduction of suffering. A form of karma yoga is to make all of one’s actions ends unto themselves and abandon attachment to all outcomes.
To "get rid of expectations" may be short-sighted and even impossible; some of our expectations are "helpful/realistic," and others are "unhelpful/unrealistic." The trick is to shift the latter to the former. I don't "need" my kids to get married and have kids, for example, but "it would be nice" if they did (possibly -- and with hopefully the right partners!).
It’s not about getting rid of desire,it’s that there is no desirer so to speak. Desirer (self) is a description/definition/categorisation etc, we are all beyond description/definition/catergrisation etc. in Buddhism this is called anatman or non-self. Of course in relative/conventional day to day living/life there is always desire and desires/expectations etc, it’s just that the so called self or desirer is not really there. We are already beyond definitions/description etc. We are all inexpressible (inexpressible is still a definition so to speak) but we use words/definitions to communicate. If one has a X-Ray or MRI there is no desirer/self/soul to be found. Life is a play when this is realised and one realises selflessness/anatman/non self.
I think Dennis has it slightly wrong. It's not desire (or aversion) per se, it's the attachment to, and identification with, desires/aversions which can't be fulfilled that is problematic. And I'd also like to distinguish between pain and suffering, where pain is physical and suffering is psychological. The former is unavoidable, while the latter is optional, and self inflicted.
@@secretagent4610 you don't get the difference between pain and suffering. Do a bit of reading, and get back to me with your apology. This post is the trigger. What your mind makes of it will cause you to suffer.
Shows how little understanding Dennis has about Buddhism and his lack of curiosity to better Understand the teachings. Desires cause suffering directly inside the person, simply by having one. Desires are mental pain, because people desire what they don't have. By practicing meditation to understand and control desires, these pains can be brought to an end, permanently. Desires and intents are not the same. After achieving enlightment, Buddha and his disciples still had intents they set out to accomplish, but they were not burning with desires and suffering inside from what is not met. Buddha tried to save his tribe from genocide, but he did not suffer when it was not accomplished. That is the deeper understanding Dennis does not have, because he lacks curiosity.
this is also one thing i disagree with budhism, desire and expectation is what drives humanity to modern age, the desire of scientists and philosophers to understant the universe, the expectation of inventors to use that knowledge to better our live, they all face many challenges and failures which is a form of suffering, yet the strong drives out of their desires and expectations is what drive humanity to be better.
Yes, we cannot fully experience an experience, while thinking about if it meets our expectation. It has an "observer effect". We might paraphrase an aphorism and say that life is what happens while you're having expectations. If you want to live fully, let go of all expectations. Emotional pain occurs when expectation meets reality. Emotional pain persists when we try and change reality. Emotional pain ends when we accept reality.
From what I understand in Buddhaghosa's interpretaiton of Buddhism--which is a Theravada Buddhism that probably most aligns with Western values--there is good desire and bad desire. Attachment or detachment to physical things seems to always be bad in Theravada Buddhism, but desire for wholesome character in people is good. In other words, a desire for the mental qualities is good but a desire for physical qualities is always bad. So I think in Buddhaghosa's style of Buddhism desire for world peace is fine and very good. But desire for anything physical is always limited and leads to suffering, such as desiring your partner only for their physical looks and nothing to do with their character. Nonetheless, I do think there are nihilistic strands of Buddhism, including in Theravada Buddhism. I would encourage Dr. Prager to study Buddhaghosa to find a more optimistic angle of Buddhism!
I suppose there’s many positive aspects to most religions and maybe 1 day we’ll know the totality of our existence and then be able to work within its boundaries in a meaningful and healthy manner.
He must have meant - Tanha - which is closer to thirst than desire. We all desire, but are we selfish of do we find a balance, Madhyamika, a middle way of balancing the ego and the other.
Prager does make a good point, although I don't fully agree with getting rid of all expectations part. I expect honesty from everyone (it's not something I praise in people, it's expected). Golf story about expectations: I'm a lone wolf type of golfer who simply shows up to a golf course and hope (not expect) to get paired up with a group. At one particular golf course in Miami (Key Biscayne), there was this particular morning group of retired golfers that normally played with 2 or 3 players, and they almost always had room for me. When they showed up with a full foursome, I would happily wait for another group with an open spot. I never complained nor got angry when that morning group didn't have room for me. One of the members of the group asked why I never got upset with not being able to play with them. I told him that I never expect anything from anyone other than honesty. He smile and said that it was the best attitude he's heard in a while and he wished his son was more like me.
I usually agree with Dennis, but on this one I do not. Expectations are necessary for hope and also reflect the causal nature of reality (outcomes are not random). I think desires and expectations are crucial to life. Desires and expectations give us hope for the future. Sometimes we have bad desires and expectations. Sometimes good desires and expectations are unfulfilled, which is hard but important in the development of maturity. On the most basic level expectations are the result of our ability to plan ahead - another good thing. It would mean that the world is random with a disconnect between causation and outcome. Without expectations we cannot hope for something greater than the current situation. If you expect nothing to come from your actions, effort, and planning - then you will not take action, exert effort, not plan for the future.
You state that one should not learn religion from an outsider, yet you state the example of an outsider a britsh man. Desire is not the problem, expectation is not the problem - it is the attachment to them that create a problem.
Buddha teaches three things. All is one. Multiplicity is an illusion and no harm done. These are three ways of looking at the same thing. If you fail to see any of them, you will suffer. E.g If you think desire is real, you would suffer.
It is my understanding that Buddhism is a discipline or practice more than a religion. I suspect it is what you bring to it as well, but it seems it is compatible with peaceful religious beliefs. For instance, I don’t think Jesus and Buddhism are necessarily mutually exclusive.
First, may I say that I’m a big fan of Mr. Prager, and I follow this channel. However, I peacefully and respectfully disagree with him regarding the topic of desire. Not because he is wrong, but because his understanding does not go deep enough. With enough meditation, a person will come to realize that they have no power or control over the world, and therefore world peace. None of us are born with a cape. What we can control is our own internal peace, which does not require desire - but rather practice. You don’t see Tibetan Buddhist monks ever attempting to gain political power or financial power in order to bring about world peace. Instead, they focus on a practice which leads to their own internal peace. THAT is the real power. Buddhism is not about opinion or beliefs. It is about PRACTICE. 🙏🏻
What if you go the traditional route....you have family and kids..but you're not happy? Like you knew who you were before and you lost your beloved former self in the pursuit of happiness....only to find the responsibilities you didn't want and family you have doesn't understand you? You find out that you're more miserable than ever.... What advice can you give to those people... Like those women that gave up their careers... And now pray for money and something more than just a domestic life where they feel trapped.... Not fulfilled?
Denis, this is not true, Buddhist believe in pain they don't believe we have to suffer. Also what they work on is not having attachments and not judging, Just live in the moment with a beginners mind. They generally have compassion for all things period.
Sorry, but Solomon said it hundred years before that. Everything is meaningless. I have nothing againt Buddism. Where I was born and raised, the majority of people follow some forms of Buddism. But honestly, what to make of this short talk?
If everything is meaningless, is there no point in putting in any effort then? Btw, it's not stated who wrote Ecclesiastes as it never states in the Bible who wrote it.
I disagree with that teaching wholeheartedly. To rid yourself of desires and of expectations is to invite apathy. You cannot care about others if you expect nothing of anyone. You have no argument against any evil actions if you don't expect people to behave with common decency. The teaching of divorcing oneself from desires and expectations is to invite evil into every aspect of life because, by definition, you cannot care about doing the right thing and also deny all expectations and desires.
That's why buddhist countries get conquered. Their people became too apathetic to fight back. Those that adopt buddhism successfully usually balance it out with other philosophies like confucianism and shintoism that foster ambition and desire.
Just as living without making value judgments is as impossible as it is undesirable, living without desire is also impossible and undesirable. Our best life comes from fulfilling the desire to align ourselves with the transcendent God who authored both the physical and moral laws that govern our universe. Science is our means of aligning ourselves with the physical laws, and theology is our means of discovering and aligning ourselves with moral truth. They are both divine spiritual endeavors.
*Pain is a message, suffering is an interpretation of that message.* Your body sends pain messages to the brain so you know that some potential damage is occurring so you can make adjustments to avoid that damage. Suffering is how your mind interprets pain or any other situation you are dealing with. You can't really stop pain by changing your thinking, but you can change or eliminate suffering by thinking differently.
In Orthodoxy, there is a distinction between the Passions that lead one to sin and suffering, and natural desire for love and well being of others. Accepting without attachment is bearing one’s Cross.
Praying for healing, patience, and peace for Dennis.
Thank you ❤
Desire without ethics and self control brings pain. Expectations beyond what is realistic brings disappointment.
Galatians 5:16-26
New International Version
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[a] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Speaking as a many decades practitioner of the Dharma (Buddhism), I would like to address this but I do not have enough information or context to do so.
And so I can only mention at this time that "desire" is innate to being alive. No person can be without desire in the sense of it as being an "energy." In fact, desire is how we got here.
And so "desire as the cause of suffering" has to be investigated deeply and explored very carefully and not just accepted at face value as a dogma or belief.
Buddhism is really about investigating and exploring how this might (or might not) be the case within our own experience. In a way we could call this "deconstructing" desire in order to see if it's TRUE and how it might be true (or false) for it to be a cause of suffering.
Ultimately, you might find that "desire" is something that is constantly changing form, and is never exhausted, and once you begin to see that and experience that "nature of desire" (which is merely an "energy") then you dont have to become a slave to the particular FORM that desire takes.
It's not much different from "addiction therapy" in that regard.
❤🙏
I like the last statement of your comment
That makes more sense than denying it's existence
Yep! I agree with this and then some. The bible speaks of desire in James 1:14-15. But also, was going to say, desire in Buddhism was not to be rid of it completely. But to acknowledge the nature of it, then to detach. And if you understood both the nature of that desire and the detachment. You attain the Buddhist version of grace. Not to mistake this grace for Nirvana, since from what i have learned in Buddhism, is that you save Nirvana for the moment you are supposed to pass onto the next life. To cancel out the reincarnation. I am not a full on Buddhist, but i have utilized some of their devices in my pursuit to treat mental illness through metaphysics.
I'm hankering for a double baconator and frosty.
Sympathetic outsider from Buddhism here. But I believe the best way to learn about a religion is not necessarily to learn from a believer, but rather to have an understanding of the original language. In terms of Buddhism, "suffering" is actually dukkha in the Pali language spoken by the Buddha, which doesn't have a direct translation into English. But imagine you're dragging a heavy wagon and a wheel gets stuck in the mud. No matter how hard you push or you pull, that wheel just won't get out of the mud. That mix of desperation, frustration and looming despair is dukkha. If you listen to a lot of Israeli songs that came out post October 7th, you'll hear lyrics like "My heart is with you in the sand and my head is in the clouds," or "I'm still wet from this October Rain." THAT is dukkha. Birth, death, old age, mourning and lamentation are dukkha. Hebrew and Pali have different ways of describing dukkha, but both worldviews see the inevitability of it. Our longings and cravings, some of which are natural and even selfless, are the root cause of this dukkha. We may be carrying very precious cargo in that wagon, too valuable for us to give up on and yet too heavy to take out of the wagon. So we keep pulling because it's all we can do. Buddhism teaches renunciation. Judaism teaches those of us with lighter wagons, or stronger backs, assist those with weaker backs and/or heavier wagons. This isn't to say that Buddhism doesn't teach compassion (it does -- Metta is a Pali word that translates to the Hebrew word chesed, but doesn't translate to English at all, and it's an important form of compassion in both traditions) or that Judaism doesn't teach renunciation. I would say, though, that the emphasis is very different. I hope this makes sense.
Also, all of those Pali terms have Sanskrit counterparts, but I know a little more about the Theravada tradition so my Sanskrit is way more rusty than my Pali.
Thank you for taking the time to give us all such a thorough exposition - Such scholastic integrity and civility are quite rare these days.
@@derphyn
Thank you! I tried my best and I'm glad you found it helpful.
I'm a Theravada Buddhist, which could be likened to a 'fundamentalist' approach in Western terms because we follow and practice the original Canon. In Buddhism, desire is seen as a root cause of suffering-whether the desire is fulfilled or not. When we base our lives on desires, we set ourselves up for dissatisfaction because the craving for something, or for a specific outcome, can never truly be satisfied.
However, learning to not let desire guide my life does not mean I avoid working toward positive outcomes. For example, I can strive to do my best in school, not because I crave straight A's, but because doing my best is its own reward. By focusing on the effort rather than the result, I am able to approach the outcome with acceptance. If I truly give my best effort, then whatever grade I receive is the proper reward for that effort, and I can find peace with it.
On the other hand, if my sole focus is on getting an A, I risk unhappiness no matter the outcome. If I get a B, I might feel devastated, thinking, 'No good college for me; my life is ruined.' Even if I get an A, the craving doesn't end-I'll wonder why I didn't aim for an A+, or perfect scores for the entire semester. In this way, desire perpetuates suffering, even when the initial goal is achieved.
So true. I constantly ask my students,. 'Did you do your best, that's all that matters, irrelevant of what society says'.
Desiring to free oneself from desire is itself a desire, just as claiming that being non-judgmental is a good thing is an act of judgment itself. There is no escaping having desires or making judgments on this side of eternity. Wisdom and peace are achieved by fulfilling the desire to align ourselves with the transcendent author of the physical and moral laws that govern our universe.
You also risk unhappiness when you desire to do your best.
If you fall short you could risk unhappiness.
"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world-the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever."
I think many misinterpret what Buddha meant. It is attachment to desire (specific outcomes) that is the issue. That is what makes one suffer. You can't help but to have desires, even if it were at least on a subtle level.
It's still living in a fantasy world. You can fool yourself into thinking you don't have desires, but it's never going to be true.
@@SamClemens-d5n Bro did NOT read the comment before responding.
@@anthonyJones-ll4ei There is no, "bro" here, mindless one.
@Sam He didn't say don't have desires. He said don't be attached to desires.
@@secretagent4610 I read and understand what he said.
It's crap.
The trick is figuring out which desires are good and which ones will lead you to ruin if you give into them.
If you're worried about your life. That's the SS relationship you're in.
Is Dennis out of the hospital or was this recorded months ago? Praying for his recovery.
Desire/Want is a good thing. Expect/Deserve is a pathway to self-delusion and anger.
Desire and want is not a good thing. That’s where greed comes from. Once you get what you want nothing will ever be enough.
@@ricky6540 Owning a gun doesn't make you a gun criminal. Wanting something doesn't make you greedy. Having power will not 'always' lead to corruption. This is the basis of being an adult of good moral character; knowing where to apply one's self-discipline and self-control. Desire and want are required for someone to be a fully self-actualized human being. Otherwise you become just a bag of nihilistic apathy.
@@Zayphar@ricky6540 As a Buddhist, You two are right in different context.
It all about knowing that you got such desire/want and think on it how you will go with it to not cause harm to other and you.
Simply put, Don't over do it. The too loose/strict string teaching.
@@Zayphar I don’t know what your culture is or if you are religious or not to follow a religious teaching to become an adult but from a Buddhist perspective, desire and attachment-not desire itself-are the root of suffering, as taught in the Four Noble Truths. While owning a gun or holding power in itself isn't inherently problematic, attachment to these things and the desire for control can lead to harm, reinforcing the illusion of a permanent, separate self. Buddhism emphasizes that self-actualization is not about fulfilling desires, but about transcending them to awaken to the impermanent and interdependent nature of reality. An adult in Buddhism also embodies mental discipline-the ability to overcome negative emotions such as greed, anger, and ignorance-and to develop inner peace through practices like meditation. They are guided by the Noble Eightfold Path, which involves right understanding, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. Rather than acting impulsively or out of selfish desire. But every individual with their own truths has their own definition of what’s an adult. Just sharing mine.
It all depends on context. Ultimately, the goal is to move past seeing everything as merely good or bad, and to see things as they really are, and act accordingly. That's the true end of ignorance.
Thank you for sharing your reflections on Buddhism in this Fireside Chat. It’s always inspiring to see people engage with such profound teachings. However, I’d like to kindly offer some clarification on a few points regarding the Buddhist perspective, as described in the early texts.
You mentioned that Buddhism teaches "all pain comes from desires and expectations" and that the solution is to eliminate them entirely. While this captures part of the teaching, it oversimplifies the Buddha's nuanced message. The Buddha taught that suffering (dukkha) arises from craving (tanhā), which is a specific kind of unwholesome, grasping desire. Not all desires are harmful-in fact, wholesome aspirations, such as the desire to cultivate wisdom, compassion, and virtue, are encouraged.
The distinction lies in whether a desire leads to attachment or freedom. For instance, the Buddha spoke about skillful desires (kusala chanda) that propel us toward spiritual growth and liberation. Letting go of harmful expectations rooted in delusion is indeed liberating, but it’s not about abandoning all aspirations. The goal is to transform our relationship with desire and understand the impermanent nature of life.
Your personal distinction between desires and expectations is insightful and resonates with certain aspects of Buddhism. I’d only encourage a deeper exploration of the teachings, especially the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path, which provide a more comprehensive view of reducing suffering.
Thank you again for your thoughtful engagement with these ideas-it’s always wonderful to see these ancient teachings spark dialogue in modern times.
Yep.
60 years old now, realizing my expectations are not reality concerning others.
Many years and hard lesson
Do you desire to lose desire?
This is a zen koan. :)
In Buddhist philosophy the quality’s of desire and pain both come from your own “side of things”. Your own karma and the events,objects inherent emptiness. It’s not nihilism, skillful means is right in line with the Golden Rule.
Isn't it wanting to have no desire a desire in itself? Expectations are fine and necessary, I expect the Bible to be true and I expect to meet my creator Jesus Christ when I die. Just like having the right desires are important so are the right expectations.
It is Impossible to live without expectations. When you walk into your dark bedroom and flip the light switch, you expect the light to go on....
Exactly. You cannot have a moral and functional society without expectations. You expect people keep their promises as you pay the light bill the lights should work.
You missed the point. It means to take things as they come
@shawnboahene5231 you missed the point. He means not to live from the ego. Of course we live a moral life because we are not egotistical. You totally misunderstood the point
One day, the light may not turn on. So long as you're not lying awake at night in a cold sweat dreading that eventuality, your expectations are reasonable.
Come on man. I think you know that is not what is meant by the Buddhist tenet.
Totally wrong on both counts. Desire and attahment are the soure of all suffering. That is not the same as saying desire and attachment are wrong or evil. Expectations shape reality, one way or another.
What most Buddhists don't learn is that it's mostly not desirable to remove suffering. A desire squashed causes suffering (to some degree) and that's what this is about. But to make suffering wrong is just plain silly: almost everything beautiful humans make or have made has its source in some kind or form of suffering.
I agree with this to certain degrees. I personally believe that all types of virtue are side-effects from pursuing self-determination. Without suffering, there is not enough raw material to be truly grounded enough to be able to relate to people through. Meaning, all of your wise words thus come across as either superficial, arrogant, or condescending.
Prayers for him and his family 🙏
The desire that cost you peace is the desire for things to be different than they are. That doesn't mean you don't change things it is about fighting reality as it exist in that moment. A quick comment on TH-cam is not the space to elaborate but know that is the essence of the teaching.
Exactly! I think the difference resides in the measure of being able to appreciate what you have. Even if it is momentary. Without this, you are left, desiring. And with that state of desire, you will most likely see reality idealistically than for what it actually is.
One thing I would add as someone who is actively trying to learn and live the Buddha's teachings (the Dharma), it isn't pain that Buddhism seeks to eliminate because its inevitable with a human body designed to feel pain. Buddhism is concerned about eliminating suffering, which is different and has more to do with how we perceive things, even how we perceive pain. Also, "Desire" is often said to be what Buddhism believes is the root of suffering, but after a lot of reading, I think the more accurate translation would be "craving" and/or "attachment", which the latter is mentioned constantly in Buddhism. You can desire good things, like following Buddhism or other religious belief system or philosophy to improve your life, but craving and attachment are very specific forms of desire that lead to flawed states of mind that in turn lead to suffering. I hope Dennis is doing better. I miss his voice.
The monk was correct. Unfulfilled desires create pain so if you have no desire, you have no pain. However, you also have no pleasure.
Not desire. Not expectation. Attachment. Let go.
Who are the leading Buddhists against socialism and the woke? Exactly.
Ask and you shall receive: th-cam.com/video/5k_e4N69ThQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=INiBEqSa53r35ezC
@ Thanks. Buddhism ain't gonna make it according to that.
@NPC.6
There are a good few, and I’m in a Right-wing Buddhist group myself. That Brian Ruhe guy is a serious wackjob though.
@@NPC.6 If that's it, y'all ain't gonna make it.
@@jamesgordley5000 Lol, any good ones?
As a Buddhist....one of the things you learn is that you live a good life and move towards enlightment. Whatever way you get there is up to you. You can believe in Jesus and his teaching, yet you can follow Buddha's teaching.
K. TY for explanation
If you believe in Jesus you can't follow Buddha. There was even a riot over in a smaller Asian nation over that specific point.
Buddhism and Jesus disagree on many fundamental levels:
Humanity purifies itself through effort VS Humanity being helpless to purify itself
The universe is divine and eternal VS The universe is created and needs renewal
“God” is an impersonal force VS “God” is a person, with all that entails (technically one being that is simultaneously three persons, in a higher sense that we lower beings can fully understand)
Jesus is merely a good teacher VS Jesus is the sole physical incarnation of “God”, who directly denounces anyone who disagrees with him as being untrue
Salvation comes from lacking attachment VS Salvation comes from attaching to Jesus
Nirvana is the denial of all desire VS Heaven is the fulfillment of all desire
There are some superficial similarities between the two, but they lead in very different directions. Do not empty yourself spiritually and not fill your soul with your Creator’s light! Nature abhors a vacuum, and humanity is incapable of resisting evil’s entry alone.
Hope for or EXPECT the best, plan for the worst.
Many years ago I was told "all of life's disappointments come from unfulfilled expectations"
If I stumble, and my knee is wounded, I feel pain.
This pain _does not come from having a desire!_
So, what is the matter here?
The pain is a natural reaction of the body. In fact, the pain is not caused by the damage itself, but by the action of the body to repair the wound. That this is so, one can have cancer, which means that many parts of the body are damaged, but one does not feel pain, because the body is not repairing this damage.
What The Buddha was referring to was not _pain, but _sufferiung!_ (Dukkha)
There is a difference between pain and suffering. If I have cancer, and feel no pain, the very knowledge that I have cancer can cause suffering. This is because I realize that _my life expectancy has become shorter!_ And _because_ I was _attached_ to the original life expectancy, this realization causes _suffering!_
Also, pain as such can become a source of pleasure. If I have cancer, and feel no pain, I suffer. If a surgeon comes to me, he offers an operation which, when successful will cause me to feel pain. But if it is not successful, it will not result in pain. So, I undergo the operation, and lo and behold, the operation causes pain, which means that I am freed from cancer. This pain will therefore cause me _to become happy!_
Buddha's insight into the connection between attachment (dukkha) and suffering is correct. However, it can lead to the mistake that one must avoid all attachment. If one does, one has no ambition whatsoever any more. And that will, ultimately,
*_TURN US INTO PLANTS!_*
You can see this in the life of Buddha himself. He, and his followers could not come up with anything better than _ becoming beggars!_ And that is _one step closer to become plants!_
So, Buddhism is basically _a poison!_ It _destroys_ our very humanity!
Not that the understanding of Buddha is wrong. But _the conclusion_ that the goal of life is just _to get rid of all suffering is
*_DEAD WRONG!!!_*
A better attitude is as follows. Just like pain is not caused by damage, but is the indirect by-efdfect of the body trying to repair itself, so _suffering_ is a token that one is _set to a certain way!_ It shows that there is a conflict to one's view on life and what life really is. Therefore, one should consider suffering not as something to get rid of, but to _embrace it!_
One should see suffering as _a teacher, a starting point to think and reconsider one's desires, to see whether they can be realized!_
And if you can't, then you must not try to just eliminate those desires, and keep it at this, but to choose _other things to desire_ which can be _new ways of thinking!_
To give an example. If one tries even to solve a mathematical problem, and one fails to do that, one can come to the conclusion that the amount of mathematical background one has is insufficient to solve the problem. So this 'suffering' of not being able to solve the problem, even though one _desires_ to solve it, must not lead to _abandoning_ the problem, but to _educate oneself, or train oneself, until with the expanded mathematical capabilities one can solve it!_
Therefore, suffering _is not something negative one should seek to eliminate totally!_
No, one should see suffering _as part of our lives!_ As _information sources_ telling us that we are inadequate, and must seek some capability, some skill, some realization which gives us _the power_ to overcome the source of our suffering.
For somebody who has cancer, this means that he must learn to go so deep into himself, that his mind undergoes a transformation so that he lives _totally_ in the present. This eliminates the fear of death, the suffering of one's realization of one's own mortality, because of a simple principle: If one exists, there is no death, so there is no problem. If one is dead, there is no existence, because one returns to the situation before the egg cell one has grown out of had been fertilized, and therefore one didn't exist either.
Or, more simply, if one has a very limited time span to live, the ultimate is: when one exists, dead is not. And when one has died, existence is not.
No Expectations would come under the "Never make assumptions" in the 4 toltec agreements.
I will always aim to live by them
Christo-Buddhist here. Suffering is caused by excess desire & expectations onto oneself & others around them. On the other hand, the lack of desire with no expectations can also cause suffering to oneself & others, because we are all interconnected.
The main idea of Buddhism is the prepare for the worst, while hoping for the best, all while maintaining equanimity (inner peace) along the way; this is similar to Christianity's 'God will provide what you need, but you must also work for it'
as Dallas Jenkins has said, "It's not your job to feed the 5000. It's only to provide the loaves and fish."
For me, if it's a good desire like wanting to raise good children, friendship and giving back to the community, then that shouldn't be a problem.
If it is selfish desires like addiction of drugs, money, sex and power, to which has a negative impact sooner or later, then that is the desire that needs to be checked and taken cautiously.
That's my opinion really.
Being without desires or expectations is a description not an instruction.
Buddhism isn’t a religion it’s a faith
That's one point that can be derived from the parable of the Rose Apple tree: that there are wholesome unwholesome desires. Technically all Buddhists desire enlightenment in one sense of the word, but that's not the same sense that's used to discuss desire leading to Dukkha. Two other English terms should accompany desire: craving and obsession, which makes the Paali term (directly translated as thirst) more clear. Thich Nhat Hanh's eating an orange makes a similar point. Although if you really get into the sticks, anything, good or bad; that would keep you in the cycle of rebirth will lead to suffering, and the ultimate goal is effectively to die and stay dead.
Our nature is to be enjoyed not the enjoyer. Our desire dovetail with pleasing God's transcendental desire for us brings joy in whatever situation we have. We need guardians and have to have a superior agent benignly Benedicting us with grace. God is the ultimate hero of the soul able to reciprocate all loving dealings, cross all boundaries to love us.
The line "No expectation no pain" needs to be followed up with "No pain no gain".
I quit dating about 7 yrs ago, i have 0 desire to have a relationshp and thus i am happy being single, most people who are single desire a relationship and that is why they feel bad
We can agree to disagree, Sir. 25 year Buddhist here. I'm afraid you're oversimplifying this, therefore getting it wholly wrong. I recommend that if you're going to address Buddhism, bring on someone who is familiar with the Pali Canon and the teachings. Many thanks!
"I'm sure he's since passed..." But you couldn't be bothered to check??
all you have to do is look at Dennis' age. What a condescending comment.
It has no bearing on the discussion here and now.
Expectations are normal and can be good. Impossible to get rid of.
Just because you cant do something it doesnt mean its impossible, i could say lifting 400 lbs is impossible but some dudes can probably do it
Expectations are normal, but that doesnt mean anything other than just that
It isn't that we shouldn't desire things, it's that we shouldn't want something so badly that we HAVE to have it, which leads to disappointment, envy, stealing, murder, etc..
This is another way of expressing "you shall not covet "
Dennis always makes so much sense, and it's good useful stuff.
The Stoics recognize that our OPINION of "things that happen to us" causes us more problems than the things that happen themselves.
Everything with which you are challenged is an opportunity or a curse, depending on your *perspective.*
I became fully enlightened, I am the Buddha
Pain/suffering is not caused by desire/expectation. It is rooted in the ignorance of interdependent origination. Specifically, the contaminated view that the object of one's desire exists inherently. The belief that the one experiencing desire (the 'self') is inherently existent is also a contaminated view.
The A.A program teaches you do not have expectations or reservations by expecting anything in life no matter how small even if you know it’s 100% will lead to great disappointment in the end
My wife is Buddhist/Shintoist. They have 10,000 gods - a god of rain and god of dancing and god of safe driving and money and a god of frogs and trees and flowers and dirt and air. I asked her "who's in charge?" She shrugged. 30 Years, still waiting for answer.! hehe
_"A life without emotion is no life at all... but to be controlled by emotion is to be consumed by it."_ "Desire" is an emotion. The AA method of treatment is to take it to zero, under the concept that, if it cannot be indulged at the appropriate levels, then set consumption to zero. This isn't terrible, but it's misapplied to both emotion and food. And I mention 'food' because an addiction to heroin or alcohol or any other drug - legal or otherwise - can be addressed through total abstinence... but not with food. You have no choice with food - if you don't have a healthy relationship with food, your only two options are to _GET_ a healthy relationship, or remain overweight.... because cutting it out of your life isn't an option. Same for emotion, despite what the Buddhists say.
I think the desires he listed are actually hopes. Also, having hopes or desires that involve outcomes for other people (such as your kid's life) are especially bad, we have no idea what will make them happy or fulfilled. You may find that your hopes and your child's hopes don't actually align.
With regard to expectations: “The worldly hope men set their hearts upon turns ashes--or it prospers; and anon, like snow upon the desert's dusty face, lighting a little hour or two--is gone.” Expectations are either frustrated, or they are met and do not provide the anticipated happiness. So the abandonment of all expectations is a huge step in the reduction of suffering. A form of karma yoga is to make all of one’s actions ends unto themselves and abandon attachment to all outcomes.
To "get rid of expectations" may be short-sighted and even impossible; some of our expectations are "helpful/realistic," and others are "unhelpful/unrealistic." The trick is to shift the latter to the former. I don't "need" my kids to get married and have kids, for example, but "it would be nice" if they did (possibly -- and with hopefully the right partners!).
Thank you for inviting me 😊❤🙏💝
It’s not about getting rid of desire,it’s that there is no desirer so to speak. Desirer (self) is a description/definition/categorisation etc, we are all beyond description/definition/catergrisation etc. in Buddhism this is called anatman or non-self.
Of course in relative/conventional day to day living/life there is always desire and desires/expectations etc, it’s just that the so called self or desirer is not really there. We are already beyond definitions/description etc. We are all inexpressible (inexpressible is still a definition so to speak) but we use words/definitions to communicate.
If one has a X-Ray or MRI there is no desirer/self/soul to be found. Life is a play when this is realised and one realises selflessness/anatman/non self.
If this is a rerun, please tell us. I’m praying Dennis Prager is recovering well from his fall in October. Let us know how he is doing. Please. 🙏🏼
Ha! Clever. You left us expecting an explanation of why expectations are bad... How Zen of you. ;-)
I think Dennis has it slightly wrong. It's not desire (or aversion) per se, it's the attachment to, and identification with, desires/aversions which can't be fulfilled that is problematic. And I'd also like to distinguish between pain and suffering, where pain is physical and suffering is psychological. The former is unavoidable, while the latter is optional, and self inflicted.
Not all suffering is self inflicted. Tell that to the abused.
@@secretagent4610 You don't understand the distinction made between pain and suffering.
@@netsurfer3655 So if someone has terminal cancer and is in pain all the time, is that not suffering?
@@secretagent4610 you don't get the difference between pain and suffering. Do a bit of reading, and get back to me with your apology. This post is the trigger. What your mind makes of it will cause you to suffer.
Expectation is bad (no good at all) ? How can someone live without expectation (hope, faith, etc) ? Its meaningless like a car without fuel...
I'm not mad, just disappointed. I had desires and expectations for you, and you did not meet them
Shows how little understanding Dennis has about Buddhism and his lack of curiosity to better Understand the teachings.
Desires cause suffering directly inside the person, simply by having one.
Desires are mental pain, because people desire what they don't have.
By practicing meditation to understand and control desires, these pains can be brought to an end, permanently.
Desires and intents are not the same. After achieving enlightment, Buddha and his disciples still had intents they set out to accomplish, but they were not burning with desires and suffering inside from what is not met. Buddha tried to save his tribe from genocide, but he did not suffer when it was not accomplished.
That is the deeper understanding Dennis does not have, because he lacks curiosity.
this is also one thing i disagree with budhism, desire and expectation is what drives humanity to modern age, the desire of scientists and philosophers to understant the universe, the expectation of inventors to use that knowledge to better our live, they all face many challenges and failures which is a form of suffering, yet the strong drives out of their desires and expectations is what drive humanity to be better.
Buddhism is all about detachment while Christianism is all about attachment. They are, in other words, opposites.
Yes, we cannot fully experience an experience, while thinking about if it meets our expectation. It has an "observer effect". We might paraphrase an aphorism and say that life is what happens while you're having expectations. If you want to live fully, let go of all expectations. Emotional pain occurs when expectation meets reality. Emotional pain persists when we try and change reality. Emotional pain ends when we accept reality.
From what I understand in Buddhaghosa's interpretaiton of Buddhism--which is a Theravada Buddhism that probably most aligns with Western values--there is good desire and bad desire. Attachment or detachment to physical things seems to always be bad in Theravada Buddhism, but desire for wholesome character in people is good. In other words, a desire for the mental qualities is good but a desire for physical qualities is always bad.
So I think in Buddhaghosa's style of Buddhism desire for world peace is fine and very good. But desire for anything physical is always limited and leads to suffering, such as desiring your partner only for their physical looks and nothing to do with their character.
Nonetheless, I do think there are nihilistic strands of Buddhism, including in Theravada Buddhism. I would encourage Dr. Prager to study Buddhaghosa to find a more optimistic angle of Buddhism!
I suppose there’s many positive aspects to most religions and maybe 1 day we’ll know the totality of our existence and then be able to work within its boundaries in a meaningful and healthy manner.
It's downright demonic.
He must have meant - Tanha - which is closer to thirst than desire. We all desire, but are we selfish of do we find a balance, Madhyamika, a middle way of balancing the ego and the other.
Needs are not desires.
Prager does make a good point, although I don't fully agree with getting rid of all expectations part. I expect honesty from everyone (it's not something I praise in people, it's expected).
Golf story about expectations: I'm a lone wolf type of golfer who simply shows up to a golf course and hope (not expect) to get paired up with a group. At one particular golf course in Miami (Key Biscayne), there was this particular morning group of retired golfers that normally played with 2 or 3 players, and they almost always had room for me. When they showed up with a full foursome, I would happily wait for another group with an open spot. I never complained nor got angry when that morning group didn't have room for me. One of the members of the group asked why I never got upset with not being able to play with them. I told him that I never expect anything from anyone other than honesty. He smile and said that it was the best attitude he's heard in a while and he wished his son was more like me.
I usually agree with Dennis, but on this one I do not. Expectations are necessary for hope and also reflect the causal nature of reality (outcomes are not random).
I think desires and expectations are crucial to life. Desires and expectations give us hope for the future. Sometimes we have bad desires and expectations. Sometimes good desires and expectations are unfulfilled, which is hard but important in the development of maturity.
On the most basic level expectations are the result of our ability to plan ahead - another good thing. It would mean that the world is random with a disconnect between causation and outcome. Without expectations we cannot hope for something greater than the current situation. If you expect nothing to come from your actions, effort, and planning - then you will not take action, exert effort, not plan for the future.
You state that one should not learn religion from an outsider, yet you state the example of an outsider a britsh man.
Desire is not the problem, expectation is not the problem - it is the attachment to them that create a problem.
The idea that sorrow comes from unrealized desires works great under a totalitarian government. Just add, "stop whining and get back to work".
Buddha teaches three things. All is one. Multiplicity is an illusion and no harm done. These are three ways of looking at the same thing. If you fail to see any of them, you will suffer. E.g If you think desire is real, you would suffer.
It is my understanding that Buddhism is a discipline or practice more than a religion. I suspect it is what you bring to it as well, but it seems it is compatible with peaceful religious beliefs. For instance, I don’t think Jesus and Buddhism are necessarily mutually exclusive.
I pray and hope Dennis recovery is going well , Happy ! New! Year ! / Happy! 2025. 🇺🇸🇺🇸
First, may I say that I’m a big fan of Mr. Prager, and I follow this channel. However, I peacefully and respectfully disagree with him regarding the topic of desire. Not because he is wrong, but because his understanding does not go deep enough. With enough meditation, a person will come to realize that they have no power or control over the world, and therefore world peace. None of us are born with a cape. What we can control is our own internal peace, which does not require desire - but rather practice. You don’t see Tibetan Buddhist monks ever attempting to gain political power or financial power in order to bring about world peace. Instead, they focus on a practice which leads to their own internal peace. THAT is the real power. Buddhism is not about opinion or beliefs. It is about PRACTICE. 🙏🏻
What if you go the traditional route....you have family and kids..but you're not happy?
Like you knew who you were before and you lost your beloved former self in the pursuit of happiness....only to find the responsibilities you didn't want and family you have doesn't understand you?
You find out that you're more miserable than ever....
What advice can you give to those people... Like those women that gave up their careers... And now pray for money and something more than just a domestic life where they feel trapped.... Not fulfilled?
Denis, this is not true, Buddhist believe in pain they don't believe we have to suffer. Also what they work on is not having attachments and not judging, Just live in the moment with a beginners mind. They generally have compassion for all things period.
Sorry, but Solomon said it hundred years before that. Everything is meaningless. I have nothing againt Buddism. Where I was born and raised, the majority of people follow some forms of Buddism. But honestly, what to make of this short talk?
Nothing much
If everything is meaningless, is there no point in putting in any effort then? Btw, it's not stated who wrote Ecclesiastes as it never states in the Bible who wrote it.
@@secretagent4610 yes, just eat, drink and be merry. A son of king David wrote it, so it was before 900 BC, maybe.
That’s an oversimplification
I disagree with that teaching wholeheartedly. To rid yourself of desires and of expectations is to invite apathy. You cannot care about others if you expect nothing of anyone. You have no argument against any evil actions if you don't expect people to behave with common decency. The teaching of divorcing oneself from desires and expectations is to invite evil into every aspect of life because, by definition, you cannot care about doing the right thing and also deny all expectations and desires.
That's why buddhist countries get conquered. Their people became too apathetic to fight back. Those that adopt buddhism successfully usually balance it out with other philosophies like confucianism and shintoism that foster ambition and desire.
Just as living without making value judgments is as impossible as it is undesirable, living without desire is also impossible and undesirable. Our best life comes from fulfilling the desire to align ourselves with the transcendent God who authored both the physical and moral laws that govern our universe. Science is our means of aligning ourselves with the physical laws, and theology is our means of discovering and aligning ourselves with moral truth. They are both divine spiritual endeavors.
Sounds like Stoicism as well.
I miss Dennis a lot.
When will he get back?🤦🏻😭
Wish you all a Happy New Year 2025 🎉
*Pain is a message, suffering is an interpretation of that message.* Your body sends pain messages to the brain so you know that some potential damage is occurring so you can make adjustments to avoid that damage. Suffering is how your mind interprets pain or any other situation you are dealing with. You can't really stop pain by changing your thinking, but you can change or eliminate suffering by thinking differently.
12th, 29 December 2024
Don't be so judgemental on others belief systems.
Nah. It’s wrong. It’s selfish. Jesus is King.
In which Dennis condemns nearly all of Asia.
Let me guess, the ancient Jewish folk tales, aka, "the Bible" is 100% true? Hahahahaha
A jew says another religion is wrong. Ain't that funny?
Desire to get married.. make a family.. get well soon Mr. Prager.
Maybe emotional pain arises from desires and expectations, but physical pain is the product of your nervous system.
100th 👍
In Orthodoxy, there is a distinction between the Passions that lead one to sin and suffering, and natural desire for love and well being of others. Accepting without attachment is bearing one’s Cross.