First I was one of those comments and appreciate you reading and responding in such detail in this video. I can agree for a production shop the time it saves may be worth the cost and over time if you mess it up with too many through cuts time is money so buy another. If the manufacturer wants to go for hobbyist and small Etsy business needs to make next generation with replaceable top. You showed a manual version in your video with the mdf and foam. Too expensive a piece of equipment to not handle a common CNC need IMO. Anyway great video delving into this.
jcor-laura5450, Thank you for your thoughtful comment! It's great to hear your perspective on the balance between cost and functionality in CNC equipment. I appreciate you sharing your insights, and I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Great Follow-up video Garrett. Your examples for showing what happens to the vacuum table demonstrated the issue very well. You started with just kissing the table top and then just cut right into it. This example immediately identifies to the user that they really don't want to cut into the table if they can avoid it. But if they do go to deep not all is lost. I have had my 24"x48" vacuum table for about a month now. Even though I have a cabinet shop, I am only using the vacuum table on my CNC at home. (my play time). When I used an mdf spoil board that was cheap and easy to replace I developed the mentality that mdf was cheap and easily replaced. So even though I was careful, I did cut through it and never worried about it. Now with the vacuum table I only place projects that I am not cutting through directly on to it. Anything that will be cut through I use the Tile gasket and zero my Z off the tile gasket. I use the paper method and just kiss the gasket so that I can feel the paper rubbing on it when I pull it out. It took a while to find that sweet spot but now it is second nature to me. The bit cuts all the way through. And even though it is pushing on the gasket, it only leaves a powder on the gasket and does not cut it. I still can't get over that. This tile gasket that Allstar CNC Products developed has really impressed me. I cut a lot of 1/2" MDO on my CNC. My wife has a yard art Business. I cut through on every blank I cut for her. Once I found the sweet spot, I have not even cut or scraped the gasket. Just a powder is left. I have some fixture plate material but I haven't had a need for it yet. One point to make about the 24"x48" table. You can by two of the 24x24" table vacuum sets for I think $50.00 less and then you can set them up as if you have a two zone 24x48 table vacuum. Jace at Air weights has very helpful to me. He is quick with his responses to questions and has even gone out of his way to design and cut a special mounting plate for my CNC. Keep up the good work.
JosephWerle-je4ww, Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment! It's great to hear how you've adapted to using the vacuum table and found the sweet spot with the tile gasket-sounds like you really have a good grasp of it now! Your experience with the MDO and the yard art business adds a nice touch. It's also nice to know that Jace has been so helpful for you; good support can make all the difference. Happy woodworking!
I have to be honest I was worried when you said you were going to cut into the table.. I am grateful that you did this video I have a 24x48 bed and I really like this solution for a couple reasons its price point is good. A full blown vacuum system is so expensive and many times they need 3phase . That is another hidden cost of a full size vac system. Then there is the noise this system is very very quiet . I would bet my dust collection is way louder.. I have to really dig into this solution.. Thank you again you are always so kind in your delivery of your content. Have a lovely day ..
robertkrueger3902, I'm glad the video resonated with you! It’s great to hear that you appreciate the quieter and more budget-friendly solution for your CNC setup. Enjoy exploring this option, and have a fantastic woodworking journey!
johnk6847, Thanks so much for your kind words! I totally get the squeamishness-safety is always a top priority, and I try to demonstrate the process while being mindful of it. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Thanks Garrett, one thing that I think you should point out in your videos is that you do not use dust collection so you can film what is going on. Dust collection is so important, as that dust is a killer.
I have a NZ made CNC and ordered the full size vacuum table instead of the custom wood one - never regretted it - There are 2 ways to stop cutting into the vacuum board - 1. Z Zero off the vacuum board instead of the workpiece 2. Use a a piece of 12mm custom wood on the vacuum board - this is your sacrificial board - A tip when using custom wood is to sand both faces and seal the edges with tape/pva glue/paint - either will work - I have many different sizes of the 12mm custom wood for different size jobs - when the sacrificial custom wood looks like a maze I just resurface it on my thicknesser or with the cnc machine - After 2 years my vacuum board still looks new - It is amazing how the vacuum sucks through custom wood - even 18mm thick works but 12mm or less give you great suction
davelind3674, It sounds like you've got a great setup with your CNC machine and vacuum table! Using a sacrificial board is such a smart idea; it really protects your vacuum board and prolongs its lifespan. It's also impressive that you can resurface the custom wood and keep things in top condition. Thanks for sharing your valuable tips and experience! Happy woodworking!
Questions: What suggestion do you have for registering a piece for repeatability using the Airweight system? Also, I noticed a blue fan-like thing on your cooling line. I assume that is to make sure you have the cooling pump on? Where did you get such a piece?
You can get the flow meter using the link below. I'll create a video for indexing on the vacuum table Alphacool 17356 Eisfluegel flow indicator blue 6-11mm - acryl Water cooling Monitoring a.co/d/iPMBLIH
Would it be possible to put like a piece of plywood underneath your actual wood project and have the vacuum table still hold both pieces in place? Thanks! Your videos really help!
rebeccamiller42, Yes, it is possible to use a piece of MDF underneath your wood project on a vacuum table. The vacuum can create enough hold to keep both pieces in place, as long as the vacuum seal is effective. Just ensure that the MDF is not too thick to maintain the proper suction. I'm glad to hear the videos are helpful!
I am completely new to this, but I do have a stupid question. Why can’t you modify the waste board so that the vacuum can go underneath the waste board? Would it be possible to cut holes in the waste board so that the vacuum will still work?
So what happens when the your bit slips and starts cutting a Grand Canyon into the board? This is something that can't be avoided unfortunately, it will happen to everyone at some point. Also, how do you put down an 1/8" baltic birch plywood when the board is warped 99% of the times. Can you even do a profile cut with such thin plywood without losing the vacuum effect? All sorts of questions like these pop into my head.
Such a great question. You about bit slip by always following the CNC project setup checklist www.click.idcwoodcraft.com/setup-checklist-signup And you are dead right, warped boards need to be surfaced first. That was covered in my original video. Thanks for taking a moment to comment and ask!
I have yet to have a bit slip in my collet thankfully but I think I owe that to one of Garrett's videos where he mentions to ALWAYS give the collet assembly a clean out whenever changing bits which I do religiously now with a small brush set.
leec2106, I totally get that! CNC setups can get pricey, especially with all the necessary addons. It's great that you're exploring options that fit your budget!
Great question! As long as you don't cut within the seal itself, you're good to go. But if you cut into the seal where the vacuum is being created, then it will break loose
Garrett, nevermind the fact that you cut into a $750.00 vacuum table to "teach" that it can be done OR that cutting into the Allstar gasket slightly is perfectly acceptable and is the proper way to use it. Please for the love of all things that bleed heavily...STOP pushing on parts on the vacuum table with the multi edge razor directly in front of your hands....It's not a matter of when it's gonna happen, but how many stitches you're gonna need if one of those warped/cupped boards decides it wants to break loose. And when you are telling people how to use the Allstar gasket, it's super simple in Vectric...Zero out to the gasket surface (machine surface). For profile cut depth enter Z+.003"..this will cut into the tile gasket .003" which will not affect the holding ability in the least, For pocket toolpaths simply Zero out to the surface of the material if the depth is super critical, Yes this requires a change in settings in Vectric, but it is almost foolproof....The fool with their fingers on the key board being the weak link :)
troygattis8381, Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I appreciate your feedback on safety and the tips regarding the Allstar gasket and Vectric settings. It’s always important to prioritize safety and proper techniques when working with tools and materials.
Ok ok...cutting outside the sealing is normal that the piece of wood don't move, but can you share what happen when cut inside the zone that is sealing?? how much can fly the piece to kill you? jejeje
nometoques, Cutting inside the sealing zone can definitely be risky, as the force may cause the piece to fly out unexpectedly. The amount it could fly definitely varies based on several factors, including the machine's speed and the type of cut being made. It's always best to ensure everything is secure and to follow proper safety protocols to prevent any accidents. Stay safe and happy woodworking!
I know part of your job/videos is being a salesman but I see so many ruining the vacuum table by making that "simple" mistake by going a little too deep. There is a fine line between being a salesman and being a snake oil salesman. That line is a bit too close.
On the contrary, my job is to teach. This was an issue that quote a few people brought up so I addressed it. But yes, if a system is worthy of showing to make CNC work better, I will absolutely promote it.
@@IDCWoodcraft Sorry, yes you do teach and very well. Question, if you do happen to go a bit to far into the rubber is it repairable? If so maybe you can teach those that will go a bit too deep, belive me there will be quite a few.
AlistairMcleish, That's definitely an approach some woodworkers prefer! Setting Z0 to the bed can streamline the process and avoid cutting into the vacuum bed. Just make sure to keep an eye on the depth to prevent any unexpected surprises!
😮 you're using the vacuum table wrong! Never cut inside the table! Put a 4mm thick mdf board on the table, this is the wasteboard. The vacuum is strong enough to hold the working material.
Wrong my friend you’re using your calipers wrong. The edge thickness gauge is on the backside of the calipers. You use the gauge that determines the depth of a hole or a bore. Again the edge of a board thickness gauge measurement is on the backside of the calipers, you turn it upside down and flip it so the read out of spacing you and that’s how you determine the edge thickness of a board. The way you use it is for determining the depth of a hole or a board requires shoulders all the way around for the gauge to rest up.try it’s gonna thrill you in back is gonna put a thrill right up your leg. 🤣
Check out AirWeights → link.idcwoodcraft.com/iiy6mj
I had a feeling this video was coming lol. I saw that comment and I knew you'd address it. Thanks for showing us this, Garrett!! 😃❤️👍
JoeLazzara, I’m glad you were excited for it! Thanks for watching!
First I was one of those comments and appreciate you reading and responding in such detail in this video. I can agree for a production shop the time it saves may be worth the cost and over time if you mess it up with too many through cuts time is money so buy another. If the manufacturer wants to go for hobbyist and small Etsy business needs to make next generation with replaceable top. You showed a manual version in your video with the mdf and foam. Too expensive a piece of equipment to not handle a common CNC need IMO. Anyway great video delving into this.
jcor-laura5450, Thank you for your thoughtful comment! It's great to hear your perspective on the balance between cost and functionality in CNC equipment. I appreciate you sharing your insights, and I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Great Follow-up video Garrett. Your examples for showing what happens to the vacuum table demonstrated the issue very well. You started with just kissing the table top and then just cut right into it. This example immediately identifies to the user that they really don't want to cut into the table if they can avoid it. But if they do go to deep not all is lost.
I have had my 24"x48" vacuum table for about a month now. Even though I have a cabinet shop, I am only using the vacuum table on my CNC at home. (my play time). When I used an mdf spoil board that was cheap and easy to replace I developed the mentality that mdf was cheap and easily replaced. So even though I was careful, I did cut through it and never worried about it.
Now with the vacuum table I only place projects that I am not cutting through directly on to it. Anything that will be cut through I use the Tile gasket and zero my Z off the tile gasket. I use the paper method and just kiss the gasket so that I can feel the paper rubbing on it when I pull it out. It took a while to find that sweet spot but now it is second nature to me. The bit cuts all the way through. And even though it is pushing on the gasket, it only leaves a powder on the gasket and does not cut it. I still can't get over that. This tile gasket that Allstar CNC Products developed has really impressed me.
I cut a lot of 1/2" MDO on my CNC. My wife has a yard art Business. I cut through on every blank I cut for her. Once I found the sweet spot, I have not even cut or scraped the gasket. Just a powder is left. I have some fixture plate material but I haven't had a need for it yet.
One point to make about the 24"x48" table. You can by two of the 24x24" table vacuum sets for I think $50.00 less and then you can set them up as if you have a two zone 24x48 table vacuum.
Jace at Air weights has very helpful to me. He is quick with his responses to questions and has even gone out of his way to design and cut a special mounting plate for my CNC.
Keep up the good work.
JosephWerle-je4ww, Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment! It's great to hear how you've adapted to using the vacuum table and found the sweet spot with the tile gasket-sounds like you really have a good grasp of it now! Your experience with the MDO and the yard art business adds a nice touch. It's also nice to know that Jace has been so helpful for you; good support can make all the difference. Happy woodworking!
I have to be honest I was worried when you said you were going to cut into the table.. I am grateful that you did this video I have a 24x48 bed and I really like this solution for a couple reasons its price point is good. A full blown vacuum system is so expensive and many times they need 3phase . That is another hidden cost of a full size vac system. Then there is the noise this system is very very quiet . I would bet my dust collection is way louder.. I have to really dig into this solution.. Thank you again you are always so kind in your delivery of your content. Have a lovely day ..
robertkrueger3902, I'm glad the video resonated with you! It’s great to hear that you appreciate the quieter and more budget-friendly solution for your CNC setup. Enjoy exploring this option, and have a fantastic woodworking journey!
Hello Garret thanks for this vids, had the same doubts and all are clear thanks to you, keep teaching
eriff, I'm so glad to hear that the videos helped clear up your doubts! Thank you for the kind words, and I appreciate your support!
Another great video, Garrett!
You definitely made me squeamish watching you trying to push that board so close to the router bit!
johnk6847, Thanks so much for your kind words! I totally get the squeamishness-safety is always a top priority, and I try to demonstrate the process while being mindful of it. Glad you enjoyed the video!
Thanks Garrett, one thing that I think you should point out in your videos is that you do not use dust collection so you can film what is going on. Dust collection is so important, as that dust is a killer.
MarkRookes-p1o, Thank you for your feedback! You're absolutely right about the importance of dust collection for safety and cleanliness.
I have a NZ made CNC and ordered the full size vacuum table instead of the custom wood one - never regretted it - There are 2 ways to stop cutting into the vacuum board - 1. Z Zero off the vacuum board instead of the workpiece 2. Use a a piece of 12mm custom wood on the vacuum board - this is your sacrificial board - A tip when using custom wood is to sand both faces and seal the edges with tape/pva glue/paint - either will work - I have many different sizes of the 12mm custom wood for different size jobs - when the sacrificial custom wood looks like a maze I just resurface it on my thicknesser or with the cnc machine - After 2 years my vacuum board still looks new - It is amazing how the vacuum sucks through custom wood - even 18mm thick works but 12mm or less give you great suction
davelind3674, It sounds like you've got a great setup with your CNC machine and vacuum table! Using a sacrificial board is such a smart idea; it really protects your vacuum board and prolongs its lifespan. It's also impressive that you can resurface the custom wood and keep things in top condition. Thanks for sharing your valuable tips and experience! Happy woodworking!
Questions: What suggestion do you have for registering a piece for repeatability using the Airweight system? Also, I noticed a blue fan-like thing on your cooling line. I assume that is to make sure you have the cooling pump on? Where did you get such a piece?
You can get the flow meter using the link below.
I'll create a video for indexing on the vacuum table
Alphacool 17356 Eisfluegel flow indicator blue 6-11mm - acryl Water cooling Monitoring a.co/d/iPMBLIH
@@IDCWoodcraftthank you!
Great Demo Garrett! It would be great if AirWeights would make smaller pads for us smaller CNC machine folks! Great product!
Stay tuned!
I reached out to Jace at Airweights about the same thing. He replied that a 12x12 vacuum pad is nearly completed for availability.
mike8171, Thanks for your kind words! Smaller pads would definitely be a great addition for those with compact CNC machines.
Would it be possible to put like a piece of plywood underneath your actual wood project and have the vacuum table still hold both pieces in place? Thanks! Your videos really help!
With mdf! 4mm thick.
@@Zeix02 thanks!
We use our machine so, but we have a Pro Cnc. I think this small vacuum table can also do.
rebeccamiller42, Yes, it is possible to use a piece of MDF underneath your wood project on a vacuum table. The vacuum can create enough hold to keep both pieces in place, as long as the vacuum seal is effective. Just ensure that the MDF is not too thick to maintain the proper suction. I'm glad to hear the videos are helpful!
I am completely new to this, but I do have a stupid question. Why can’t you modify the waste board so that the vacuum can go underneath the waste board? Would it be possible to cut holes in the waste board so that the vacuum will still work?
People have done that. You can watch a few videos and you'll see it. But there is a science to this which I am not totally privy to.
So what happens when the your bit slips and starts cutting a Grand Canyon into the board? This is something that can't be avoided unfortunately, it will happen to everyone at some point. Also, how do you put down an 1/8" baltic birch plywood when the board is warped 99% of the times. Can you even do a profile cut with such thin plywood without losing the vacuum effect? All sorts of questions like these pop into my head.
Such a great question. You about bit slip by always following the CNC project setup checklist
www.click.idcwoodcraft.com/setup-checklist-signup
And you are dead right, warped boards need to be surfaced first. That was covered in my original video.
Thanks for taking a moment to comment and ask!
I have yet to have a bit slip in my collet thankfully but I think I owe that to one of Garrett's videos where he mentions to ALWAYS give the collet assembly a clean out whenever changing bits which I do religiously now with a small brush set.
I love it and the idea of it, however the price is more then I paid for my 3018 router, and adding the vacuum pump makes it even more costly
leec2106, I totally get that! CNC setups can get pricey, especially with all the necessary addons. It's great that you're exploring options that fit your budget!
What would happen if you accidently CUT THRU THE SEAL STRIPS?
Great question! As long as you don't cut within the seal itself, you're good to go. But if you cut into the seal where the vacuum is being created, then it will break loose
Garrett, nevermind the fact that you cut into a $750.00 vacuum table to "teach" that it can be done OR that cutting into the Allstar gasket slightly is perfectly acceptable and is the proper way to use it. Please for the love of all things that bleed heavily...STOP pushing on parts on the vacuum table with the multi edge razor directly in front of your hands....It's not a matter of when it's gonna happen, but how many stitches you're gonna need if one of those warped/cupped boards decides it wants to break loose. And when you are telling people how to use the Allstar gasket, it's super simple in Vectric...Zero out to the gasket surface (machine surface). For profile cut depth enter Z+.003"..this will cut into the tile gasket .003" which will not affect the holding ability in the least, For pocket toolpaths simply Zero out to the surface of the material if the depth is super critical, Yes this requires a change in settings in Vectric, but it is almost foolproof....The fool with their fingers on the key board being the weak link :)
troygattis8381, Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I appreciate your feedback on safety and the tips regarding the Allstar gasket and Vectric settings. It’s always important to prioritize safety and proper techniques when working with tools and materials.
Ok ok...cutting outside the sealing is normal that the piece of wood don't move, but can you share what happen when cut inside the zone that is sealing?? how much can fly the piece to kill you? jejeje
nometoques, Cutting inside the sealing zone can definitely be risky, as the force may cause the piece to fly out unexpectedly. The amount it could fly definitely varies based on several factors, including the machine's speed and the type of cut being made. It's always best to ensure everything is secure and to follow proper safety protocols to prevent any accidents. Stay safe and happy woodworking!
🌵🙋🌵
williamcovell6324, glad you liked this one brother!
I know part of your job/videos is being a salesman but I see so many ruining the vacuum table by making that "simple" mistake by going a little too deep. There is a fine line between being a salesman and being a snake oil salesman. That line is a bit too close.
On the contrary, my job is to teach. This was an issue that quote a few people brought up so I addressed it. But yes, if a system is worthy of showing to make CNC work better, I will absolutely promote it.
@@IDCWoodcraft Sorry, yes you do teach and very well. Question, if you do happen to go a bit to far into the rubber is it repairable? If so maybe you can teach those that will go a bit too deep, belive me there will be quite a few.
Hey Garrett, here is an alternate method to use on the vacuum table without cutting it up. th-cam.com/video/IWg_F8pBTYY/w-d-xo.html
Yes I have the same setup with tile gasket. It was just that some people said what happens if you come into the vacuum plate itself.
Dont cut your vacuum bed, just set Z0 to the bed in your software and cut to full depth
AlistairMcleish, That's definitely an approach some woodworkers prefer! Setting Z0 to the bed can streamline the process and avoid cutting into the vacuum bed. Just make sure to keep an eye on the depth to prevent any unexpected surprises!
😮 you're using the vacuum table wrong! Never cut inside the table! Put a 4mm thick mdf board on the table, this is the wasteboard. The vacuum is strong enough to hold the working material.
I'm with you Zeix. I'm just explaining what was asked but I think I should have just said don't do it like that!
Wrong my friend you’re using your calipers wrong. The edge thickness gauge is on the backside of the calipers. You use the gauge that determines the depth of a hole or a bore. Again the edge of a board thickness gauge measurement is on the backside of the calipers, you turn it upside down and flip it so the read out of spacing you and that’s how you determine the edge thickness of a board. The way you use it is for determining the depth of a hole or a board requires shoulders all the way around for the gauge to rest up.try it’s gonna thrill you in back is gonna put a thrill right up your leg. 🤣
Hey Rob. Thanks for calling me out in that ❤️