@@naytcrow well, could also be fighter game style action, or fps action, etc. Also I'd mention that there is also an important distinction in the AMOUNT of action... so Secret of Mana is an arpg, sure. But it is ina whole different genre than, say, Blade and Soul, or ... uh... Black Desert Online. Those are super twitch action whereas grandmas can play SoM. SoM is a aRPG, BDO is an Arpg. EQ, say, is a direct translation of RPG combat into real time live action, *while keeping the RPG combat pace.*
I think a strength that turn based games have over action is being able to control multiple characters at the same time. Sure there are action RPGs where you can change characters on the fly, but in a turn based RPG, everyone's working together simultaneously and you're in control of it all. You simply can't do that in a real time game. That reason alone gives turn based RPGs value, imo
Yes. You get a certain role playing experience out of turn based strategy games you can't get with action games. The pace allows for introspection and thought to be placed on the characters and story. A lot of people don't understand this
I legitimately will not play an action rpg where you have multiple party members, I just can't get with that style. Which means I miss out on a lot of modern action rpg's, but I'm ok with that.
@@JSmoothSoulrealtime strategy games have dogshit combat on an individual level, but it's a strategy game so it dosen't matter A turn based characters can have hundreds of abilities, magics, skills etc etc while a RTS character would just do a basic attack repeatedly with the same damage
Saying turn based combat is outdated is like saying 2D art is outdated. 2D is an art style many people will continue to love in the same way turn based combat is a genre many will continue to love even if the main stream moves away from it. Videos games are a form of art and art will always be subjective Personally i love turn based videogames!
Outdated? no. Does it sell well? no. Even the best selling turn based game, pales in comparison to action games in terms of budget & revenue (except Pokemon I guess)
Turn based RPG are NEVER outdated or "getting old" even if we get modern releases like Octopath Traveler 2 and Chained Echoes the combat system just never gets old (to me that is).
@@NaroLucian thanks to lack of promotion from Square, it's sales multiplatform barely reached sales of the 1st when it was Nintendo exclusive ans promoted to hell by Nintendo.
Tried it so many times and just can't get into it's gameplay whatsoever. I feel like I don't understand something about it, since I'm just in love with Octopath.
No one EVER EVER talks about Vagrant Story. It may have had the most unique battle system ever. A hybrid of action rpg and turn based with chain attacks aaaand weapon range factors used to target specific body parts etc. And no random encounters. Enemies were on screen.
Mix that with old school Resident evil and you have parasite eve, very good games (except the last one), vagrant story also was very good, but both are practically the definition of a niche game, hope they get a remaster or a remake, a proper remake of a studio that knows what made those games special.
I have it, and I would love to see a modern game implement its mechanics - or failing that, at least a Vagrant Story remaster that kept the battle system.
Eh, i don’t think so at all. And it’s not exactly the combat systems fault but very few turn based combat nowadays rarely feels very interesting. Octopath/shin megami tensei 4/apocalypse are the best examples of modern turn based though. But even smt ruined its combat in 5.
@@morriganrenfield8240 It is indeed territory that has been covered and conquered, time and time again, but for me personally, I just never really get tired of turn-based RPGs. It's like my "home" genre, haha.
I’m surprised we haven’t seen more games adopt Legend of Legaia’s battle system. For those who don’t know, you inputted different directions on the D-pad for combos, and as you leveled up, you had more slots added for additional input. Mostly, your “combos” wouldn’t amount to anything, but other times, you stumbled upon a special combination of directions that unlocked special moves with a corresponding animation and increased attack damage. That discovery feeling was intoxicating.
I’ve been waiting for anyone to re release that game. I remember as a kid I jumped back and forth between FF7 and Legend of Legaia because I liked the story and how easy FF7 was but I enjoyed the combat and difficulty of Legend of Legaia better.
I’m tempted to get myself a PC this weekend just to emulate it and have a challenge where arts can only be learned using the auto battle feature. I remember it wasn’t an easy game when I was younger but I think it would be fun.
Lost Odyssey a older Xbox JRPG also had something like this with its turned based combat. Kinda similar to Legends of Dragoon for those older folks like myself who grew up in that era
I think this argument of "Turn based is outdated" is so dumb mainly because a lot of people online just don't know how to accept that they have a PREFERENCE, and not everything has to be to their tastes. Some people enjoy slow/paced combat! And others may prefer something more actiony and fast paced! One doesn't have to erase the other.
I agree, even in this comment section there’s a lot of people choosing sides meanwhile I’m just over here enjoying both lol. With that said I do prefer turn based, however that doesn’t stop me from being able to enjoy action games too
People cant differentiate between liking things and evaluating things. I can LIKE a piece of media and still know it is objectively bad/low quality/has many flaws etc. I can LIKE turn based rpgs and still reflect on the genre as being outdated, if we think about defining the term. Which i did but im too lazy to write down on my phone.
@@CoNteMpTone you put it best. Cause i agree Turn Based is outdated but i still love it. No sane Person can look at a turn based game that was made to step around severe limitations as modern and impressive. But for ME i only like games that make me think and give me time to LET ME THINK. Not mindlessly input commands and use timing.
People also don’t like only comedy or only action movies. There’s days where I’ll play battlefield, call of duty, chivalry 2. Other days I’ll be into persona, smt or yakuza. Peoples tastes aren’t two dimensional.
Thank you for making this. It's pretty odd when anyone actually says turn-based games are dead, like there'll never be turn-based games from this point forward. Not everybody wants super high-octane car chase/explosion action stuff all the time. People want strategy games, cozy games, story games, etc. too. It's okay for different people to like different stuff. Anyways, it's a great video. I'm glad to see jrpgs making a resurgence in recent years. :)
I would love if more rpgs adopted the paper mario/mario rpg type combat where it more interactive without having to sacrifice the turn based elements. Turn based RPG will never die as long as ppl are spicing up the formula.
Sea of stars has this recent formula & Bugs fable check them out if you haven't already! Sea of stars is more chrono trigger though & bug fables is just like paper mario.
Yakuza: Like A Dragon had this implemented, though not fully. When your character used a skill, you either had to press Square rapidly or press Triangle at a certain time to increase the damage, and when your character was attacked if you pressed Circle at the right time it would reduce the damage. Nothing for your characters basic attacks though, and once you leveled up high enough you wouldn't need the damage boost to one shot enemies, but at least it's partially there, and in the early game before you're leveled up, some fights hinge on these timing presses as well, which makes things more interesting.
As much as I tried it out, I just couldn't figure out this battle system to not be boring because of the exploitability of it. Somehow, Octopath made so much more sense instantly, while with Bravely there's like no reason to use Default at all. Either stuck Bravely or just attack as normal.
@@Louis_Cyphriel Default can be used to make turns a bit more efficient. You could attack twice and get hit twice, or Default first, Brave on turn two, get hit 1.5 times damage over those two turns. Or, your healer isn't going to be able to do much this turn as everyone is full, so Default, save that turn you stored when needed later.
Yakuza : Like A Dragon legit got me back into this genre. That game was perfect to me, the random encounters were fast, the visuals kept me engaged, the story was incredibly well told, and the music was lit. I still hum the battle theme in my head. Best modern JRPG I've played recently, though i don't have nearly the amount of time necessary to play alot of games these days.
Agreed! Really looking forward to the sequel. Can't come soon enough. Been looking for anything else that comes close to it, but without success. Honkai Star Rail comes closest, but as a gacha the story delivery being drip fed means it'll take forever.
@@porina_pew I can't think of anything that comes remotely close. Persona 5 is in the ballpark, but not quite, as it's still a persona game and leans heavy into the fantasy themes. Closest we'll get more than likely is the actual sequel, which can't come soon enough IMO.
As a guy who watches A LOT of football, I appreciate the gap you bridged between the needs and the jocks 😂 I was waiting for you to cover strategy rpgs, but great video man! 👍
As a 47 year old, I've defended TB RPGs all throughout my life. Used to get hated for it on sites I wrote for or forums I was on. Yet get this: I know this kid at work, 24 years old, and HE agrees with me. Turn-based is better. Kid is the light of hope.
This is great to hear. I’ve read some comments on the channel from younger kids who are still interested in checking out the SNES/PS1 turn based classics which gives me hope as well
One thing I’ve always respected about RPGs in general, and turn-based games in particular, is the sheer variety in systems that have been developed. Every single turn-based RPG I’ve ever played has always had its own unique take on turn-based mechanics. And not just subtle differences either, but often vastly different designs for combat structure, pacing, specific systems (use of magic, card-based, point pools, etc.), and player choice. Some have been more action-focused, others strategy-with both being genres in their own right. Shit, I’d argue the depth and diversity in turn-based games is far, far greater than most of the popular genres out there. Not superficially either, but conceptually and structurally. Where gamers are forced to re-learn a game like chess each and every time they pick up a new title: the pieces are same but the rules have all been rewritten. Always building on what came before it, always evolving, and limited by nothing but a developers creativity. Anyone thinking the genre is dead is… I guess, entitled to their dead-wrong opinion. And probably not to be trusted to watch your kids or pets.
I really like the combat system of the Grandia series and Final Fantasy 12. I feel like they blend the real time and turn based combat and make the gameplay more fluid. The fact that you can also pause, have a breather and get a grip on your surroundings before choosing your next action is great
I'm w/ you. Loved FF12's Gambit system. So much opportunity. I'd add Baldur's Gate 1/2. While CRPG, they combine realtime w/ some mild turn-based elements like casting times and the ability to pause whenever.
I just loved how you get to control the character movement during battle in DQ11. It added no value but made the tedium of basic turn-based combat kind of unique and fun
One of my favorites battle system is the one of phantasy star 4. The macros and how the order of the macro makes the speed of the characters change it's awesome
Exactly! I'm surprised Broductions didn't catch that one. It did the combination magic system that BOF4 was mentioned for first, AND has a simple, elegant solution for making those combos easier. With Macros, you can open the menu before combat, and slot in which party member uses which skill and when. Enemies can still, sometimes, interrupt their initiative, but using Macros, setting combo participants next to one another in turn order is a BIG help. (as long as you put the slower participants earlier, for best results)
Turn-based RPGs are a genera that can accept all sorts of things and still be a Turn-based rpg. I mean, it's probably the most trivial way to implement any combat mechanics. As long you have an object with a number associated to it that you want to turn into 0, while avoiding one number associated to the player to go to 0, and you take turns to try diminishing it, it's already a minimum viable product example of a turn-based RPG mechanic. You can literally do this with dices and a pen, or even rock-paper-scissors with best of 10. Since it's so simple to implement, devs can make their talent go wild, just like how musicians can go wild with just the seven notes of the C Major Scale. I think, as an aspiring musician, that the turn-based rpg mechanics are to games as DAWs are to music: It let's you focus on other things that you want to focus. I don't think I'd ever be able to try being a musician without a DAW, since I cannot play an entire orchestra or a studio setup for myself, nor I can afford hiring one. I think most devs wouldn't be able to turn their ideas into games either if they had always to make combat be in real time. To be honest, I don't doubt the majority of video games on internet are either Turn-based RPGs, Point-and-click adventure games and Visual Novels, which at least on gameplay mechanics are the easiest genera to implement, especially with the existence of tools like RPG Maker and Ren'py. If you are good at drawing or writing, all three play along really well with your skills, so you don't need to afoord another person in your tight budget, specially on more personal projects you want full control. I'm planning to make a game, and I'm still in doubt whether I do an Turn-Based RPG or a Deck-Based RPG for the combat mechanics. Maybe I'll do both at the same time. Cards are not much different than menu buttons in functionality after all, but are cooler in looks. It feels good to have a card in your digital deck.
This is a perfect example of why turn based games are still relevant. Ideas can come about and systems don't have to remain stagnant. Really great video!
The biggest thing to me is how JRPGs have kept turn based alive, but it's also the bright cartoony aesthetics, team based gameplay and anime story telling that JRPGs bring to the table that I find varied, fun and nostalgic. Western RPGs tend to favour solo action RPGs and realistic dark aesthetics with morally grey story, something that everyone thought was the future when turn based JRPGs fell out of favor for western action RPGs in late 2000s. Today both can exist together and should, for they do things very different.
JRPG isn't RPG actually, there is no real role playing, you can't be anything you want. When I played DoS2, I realized that JRPG sucks ass and only Persona series have the little bit of roleplaying. FF? nah....it's just a fuckin story telling with turn-based combat, except FF14 (which I think is the best FF in the series, don't judge me)
@@johnathanrhoades7751 give me a couple of your examples of "JRPGs" that disagree with my statement that says that JRPGs doesn't have any role playing (except the role you are forced into). "You have clearly not played many JRPGs" lmao, I wouldn't come to this conclusion if I haven't played most games tagged with RPGs dumbass
Great video! I recently finished playing through the Trails in the Sky trilogy for the first time and I loved the combat system. There is so much strategy involved with it, not only based on which characters you decide to use, but what you mentioned about the different abilities and status effects that pop up throughout the battles. What an excellent story too. Okay, when are you going to a dedicated video to a Trails game? Haha!
I prefer turn based rpgs due to making strategic decisions and seeing the outcomes at my own pace. Even atb type systems & auto battlers like ff13 & xenoblade chronicles offer the same feeling to a degree. I don't like all my rpgs feeling like an open-world version of devil may cry. Not knocking action games by any means, they're just great for a certain mood. I played an arpg recently that had a "classic mode" that swapped the encounters to be turn based and it was awesome having that option!
I think a more dynamic camera during turn based combat would help. There's no reason a battle couldnt play out like a Naughty Dog cutscene. Animations could be totally fluid once you've chosen the attack.
While not as dynamic, I really like how Yakuza Like a Dragon has such a fluid combat for a turn based game. You also time dodges and hits and you see every action happen on the field. Everyone is constantly moving and your positioning matters. Depending on where you are or if you are near a certain team member you may do a follow up action or grab a nearby obstacle and start swinging.
This! Turn based gameplay minimizes player input to focus on strategy but because there's less opportunity for the player to screw up and less variables in what they choose to do, they are built to be cinematic
SaGa Scarlet Grace is a really good example of a modern RPG with a turn order bar, allows for a LOT of manipulation with characters able to see an enemy's pierce attack coming and setup a counter for it.
I don't think turn-based games as a whole are outdated, but I think the RPGMaker/Dragon Quest/FF1-3 traditional formula is. There is so much you can do with turn-based gameplay. We have numerous amounts of tactical turn-based games that add a lot more depth and layers to the traditional formula. Then we have games like Earthbound/Undertale, Yakuza LaD, and Mario and Luigi RPG series that adds more engagement due to actively dodging and timing hits. Lastly, you have hybrids like Xenoblade Chronicles and FF7 Remake (I think it nailed the balance between action and turn-based combat). There is a world of difference between something like Divinity Original Sin 2 and Advance Wars than a formulaic turn-based games that chase the classics without doing anything novel. I think modern turn-based games need more engagement and depth as well as less reliance on grinding (trash mobs) and more unique and memorable enemy encounters.
I love turn-based and tactical combat systems, they're like a chess tournament with increasingly interesting opponents, they make you think with your head instead of stupidly pounding one button to stab your opponent with your sword.
Pick attack from menu =chess you're so desperate to feel smarter or more skilled than a Gta, Red Dead, Skyrim or soulslike 100 percenter for a little bit of menuing gtfo 😂 the games I mentioned cleary take more skill and know how & trial and error for a first time player than any turn based rpg, but turn based is chessss oookay smarty! you so smart for clicking big damage out of the menu! Much moreso than me and my fast twich reflexes it took to beat all the bosses on Nioh 0 damage. 😂🤓🤫😂😂
Great video, you guys make a lot of excellent points covering systems near and dear to my heart. Though I think my personal favorite will always be the "plan ahead" style of games like FF10. Though SMT is a close second. On the topic of games that have turn manipulation if any of you haven't played Radiant Historia you should seriously check it out anyway you can. Originally a DS game IIRC it got a re-release on the 3DS. Personally I'd just emulate the original but you didn't hear that from me ; )
This vid was so much fun to sit through. The Toonami like feeling I got from the intro/outro/intermission, the amazing music throughout the whole thing, the lore at the end and a bonus cat toy vid tossed in for good measure. This was just great, put me in such a good mood! :D
As requested, I would Skies of Arcadia's Spirit Points system is basically a Stamina system or at least a hybrid. Spirit Points regenerate at a certain rate per round, and skills cost SP. The max SP and regeneration rate grow with your level. Regular attacks, magic, items, or defending don't cost SP however, so you can use those strategically to save up SP. Also bonus points for element-based combat and extra point for ship-based combat. The main complaint is a high random encounter rate of the original on the DC, but that was fixed on the GC port. If you haven't, there's basically no reason to not play it.
"Turn based is outdated" The sales of Persona 5 and DQ11 proves this fallacy completely wrong by the millions. Last time i checked(it's been a while so fact check me) I'm pretty sure they've both outsold FF7r.
@mehdihachlaf5081 not true. It's like saying chess is outdated because sports exist. Turn based or strategy based games in general provide a different experience from action titles and they are not outdated or a thing of the past because you don't understand that
@KaiHyouookami not really, it's good to consider that those games sell mostly due to nostalgia, just like pokemon, turn based is outdated, slow ans boring as hell to me.
I was turn based only for a long time (other than kingdom hearts). I was just bad at and stressed by action games. I recently fell into the Monster Hunter Rise black hole and “got gud” through some arduous practice and now I am still bad at action games, but I’m not AS bad and I enjoy them a lot more.
Octopath Traveler showed intelligent and challenging turn based combat is still absolutely viable and not outdated. IMO the very reason games like Chrono Cross (tied for my favorite game of all time with FFVII) are still remembered as a classic is that IMO the combat is still fun and unique, while still being turn based. There’s also the fact that taking turns in its essence is a concept very familiar to humans. Waiting our turn and planning those turns ahead is something we all can relate to; gamer or non-gamer. Just like life, it’s easy to grasp, but can be difficult to master. When it all comes down to it; life is a lot like a turn based combat system. 😅 Octopath Traveler was a refreshing experience in an era where JRPGs all compete over who’s got the most flashy real-time combat system and graphics, completely forgetting what made those games great to begin with. Dragon Quest XI was a great game, with fun combat, while staying true to its roots. Also, Legend of Legaia! Underrated game IMO. :)
Same for me. I was hoping that if anyone could come up with an innovative turned based rpg it would be square but it seems like they have gone to the point of no return now.
Honestly I thought FF7 remake, and FF15 were garbage. If it isn't turn based, it certainly isn't final fantasy. They have failed us. I don't recall even paying attention to my materia in remake, I just mashed buttons until I won EVERY combat. And walking around repetitive, depressing midgar the whole game? Nope, I only completed it because I loved the original so much. As far as FF15, as soon as I started driving around in a car with 3 dudes in leather pants, I puked in my mouth a bit. Then when I learned the combat, I snapped the disk in half to prevent future generations from having to experience such garbage. Final fantasy has.complwtely failed us, it it time we admit it. FF16, is just more of the same nonsense. Let's stop deluding ourselves into thinking final fantasy has evolved into something good. It hasn't.
if FF16 was turn-based, it's just another generic FF game, only the same old customer would play, some might even not, no newcomer will even touch the fuckin game because it says 16.
Remember, this year’s most acclaimed video game is Baldur’s Gate 3, a turn-based RPG. The best-selling RPG franchise of all time is Pokémon, which is again turn-based. People are even hyped about Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario: Thousand-Year Door remakes. Turn-based combat is not going away anytime soon. ^-^
I think the people making the argument that turn based RPGs are outdated just don't like turn based RPGs. And not liking them is ok, but not every playstyle has to be catered to every player. Action players can't say they're outdated just because they prefer instant gratification and don't want to strategize - there are plenty of people who want the opposite.
I have 2 problems in mind with turn based rpg. It is that usually when you learn a new skill/move, it makes the previous move/skill obsolete like i noticed in Like a Dragon 7. Once you learn the essence skills, there is little point in using the first few skills of that job. And yeah i know they balance that by having high mp cost, but can be solved by using mp recovery items. My other problem is how the equipments in turn based rpg if not most rpg are just stats sticks, bland, basic, and generic, and nothing unique or interesting like add effects to a specific skill(s) or change how you play that character. Like a build diversity. No, they're usually go the route of "best in slot" equipment type of RPG.
You nailed most of my favorite systems. I will def add Saga Frontier for me. Sparking new techs and finding new combos on each playthrough is still fun as hell for me. I still need to play radiant historia, but that system of using more turns to do crazier attacks is such a cool and unique one.
Bravely Default 2 - Turn based, random encounters, grindy - Do not have to go into the random encounters, can boost exp and speed of game by a ton (most likely will do this normally, but still) Octopath Traveler and the BD series above is sort of like the stanima system of XG and Legend of Legia.
Lol the chrome trigger joke made me genuinely laugh. This is definitely one of my favorite TH-cam channels when I want to have a little nostalgia with some good jrpgs 🎉
SaGa Scarlet Graces, yes play this game. The battle system is pretty impressive with a lot of variation in gameplay and adjusting for things. You have counter attacks (activated if somebody uses the type of attack that it counters) that will break up turn order, delayed attacks, fast attacks, and an ally/enemy killed with be taken off the turn grid, and then "link" the ones it was between together. If it's the same type (ally/ally or enemy/enemy), it'll immediately start a powerful followup attack with all of those units (without using their turn) on the next target that could potentially 1-shot them. Best part is both you and the enemy can use it. And every weapon specializes in something different here, which is what adds to the customization and strategy. Buffs and debuffs are really strong here too, and could potentially make/break you.
I'm more of an action game fans, and action jrpgs like Tales series are also cool too but sometimes if i don't want any hand to eye coordinations gameplay i just switch to jrpg for relatively slower pace of gameplay and take my sweet time. I'd say those who said turn based are outdated probably those who played turn based games that have annoying mechanics like you mentioned before like random encounters, too long attack animation, the game being a grindfest, etc. I like it when we are not surrendering ourselves to rng 100% like Paper Mario and Shadow Hearts, it gives us a sense of believe that we are our own fate decider, how strong our attacks are 100% depends on us. Rng of our attacks being normal damage or critical damage are still okay for me tho. I hate it when an attack "miss" like wtf? usually i dropped the game immediately when there's a "miss" attack features like that (one reason why im not a big fan of mainline pokemon games). Weakness that doubles the damage and Resistance that halves the damage system feels waay more realistic than "hit or miss". Great vid as always!
They were never even struggling. The problem is the people that made them wanted to chase the huge numbers of more popular games like Red Dead Redemption, The Witcher, God of War, and other open-world games that predate them. They wanted those huge sales and weren't content unless they were selling 5m+ copies in the first three days. They could easily keep budgets down and produce games that would sell millions. They just choose to chase games that sell tens to hundreds of millions and fail to realize the people that buy their games aren't buying those aside from a choice few incredibly well polished insanely produced AAA games.
On the "random encounters" front, as you mentioned, not many modern games have them. I'd also add that some Action RPGs also have random encounters (Star Ocean/Tales of).
Honestly see morewhining about games NOT being turn based anymore and immediately dismissing whatever the newest rpg is because it's action based. Especially when the new game is a Final Fantasy title.
It is getting really annoying. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills looking at people crying about there being no turn-based games when there has been a huge resurgence of them lately. I'm also sure most of these people didn't buy Legend of Heroes Trails series, Disgaea, SMT IV and V, Darkest Dungeon, Siralim, Mario and Rabbids games, and don't even acknowledge games like Divinity original Sin 2 and the upcoming Baldur's Gate. I think these people just want traditional JRPGs that haven't evolved much and can't understand why others have moved on.
Another fantastic video guys! I love the way you break it all down and explain all the nuances of the different innovative ways developers have done turn based combat
I certainly hope they'll never be outdated! As someone who grew up playing Pokemon and not having great motor skills, strategic turn-based RPGs are my favorite kinds of games. I like Metroidvanias, a few different fighting games, and whatever you call the Legend of Zelda, but I prefer the combat styles of Pokemon, Persona, Fire Emblem, and the earlier Final Fantasy games.
Some various thoughts: I suspect a view of "turn-based as outdated" comes from the AAA studios doing their big budget AAA RPGs as action-RPG more often than not (there are still exceptions, like DQ11). They typically have their turn-based games as mid- or low-budget games that barely get any substantial marketing budget. So, based on how the big studios preferentially market fast-paced action games, the perception that turn-based is outdated kind of makes sense. I don't like it, because I value both action and turn-based combat systems, but oh well. As is usually the case with me these days, the indie scene has tons of gold often for much cheaper, so I'm still satisfied. Gimme Crosscode or Cat Quest for action and Monster Sanctuary or Chained Echoes for turn-based, and I'm a happy guy. Though I kind of wish the studios known for RPGs would maybe revisit doing some big budget turn-based games now that Nintendo has basically released the near-perfect action-RPG game with Tears of the Kingdom (even though it still has the stupid durability and stamina mechanics from BotW). Gonna be hard for anyone else to top that as a AAA game. re: Status effects, that's why I love Final Fantasy 5 so much. Nearly every boss is susceptible to some handful of meaningful status effects, which allows you to strategize approaching the fights. This is especially fun in the 4 Job Fiesta self-imposed challenge for the game. Love the kitty and doggy conversation at the end. Makes me want to revisit Shining Force 2.
Thank you for making this. I was going to buy the ff7 remake until I saw they had switched from turn based. I think it’s more popular in general but I can never get into it.
I have to agree with you, and yes it's the same reason modern FF don't click with me. Square-Enix seems hellbent on killing turn-based RPGs though with the rumor now that even Dragon Quest is going to be "modernized" and changed.
@@AJ-po6up So "turn based" and "modern" does not belong in the same sentence. I kind of want to see some photo-realistic turn-based JRPG games that could push my GeForce RTX 4070 to the max even at 4K resolution. :)
FFVII's turn-based system with the materia was so much fun. I wish they would have kept it, maybe with a twist. Updated graphics and turn-based combat shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
What i like about turn based is that it doesnt rely much on mechanical skills so older people is not gonna be behind younger people in being good at the game
I'm really glad you made this video, you expressed a lot of the thoughts I've had. I have always hated the argument between turn based and action combat, both a great and both still have a place in the modern gaming market.
One of the best TBRPGs I've played lately was "Ruined King" from 2021. It uses a system sort of like the stamina system you mentioned in the video, but in a really interesting way. HP and MP are not refilled between fights, and using anything beyond a simple attack exhausts MP. But on every turn, you get "Overcharge" (stamina) which you can use instead of MP to execute your stronger attacks. It adds a ton of layers of strategy, especially with the variety of ways you can manipulate all of your resources. By making it so your resources don't recharge between fights, it makes even the most mundane fights meaningful. Taking your time to build up stamina so you aren't exhausting MP might mean the enemy gets a few more turns to knock out some of your HP. And by the time you get to the boss, you want to make sure you aren't too low on either. It has a lot of other strategic mechanics as well, and every character has a unique approach to all of them. It's a very well thought-out game.
Great video! Great examples and the visuals/sound design are so chill. I really like Octopath system however I wish they added (or all JRPGs added lol) an auto battle for lazy turns. if they want it to pick more then just attacks too that would be fine. I think combos and timed attacks could go a long way in most RPGs.
Thank you! An auto battle feature in Octopath would be really nice, selecting the right weaknesses for every enemy during random battles can get a little tedious lol. Maybe my only real gripe with the battle system
Thank you! This expressed everything I've been feeling and a lot more eloquently. Here's hoping turn based falls back in favor soon. I got FFXVI and I do like the story, I don't like the gameplay, I just wear the accessory that lets me mash square😑
Keep yer modern Final Devil-May-Cry-tasies! Turn-based battlers have never been in ruder health. SMTV, Persona 5, Chained Echoes, Sea Of Stars, all the glorious remasters and remakes (FFX), even Xenoblade is accessible to those who are ARPG-averse! Love it. We're very happy turn-based lovers at HyperPlay RPG Towers.
Been playing FF16 since release and was feeling.. Kinda stale. My sister was stuck on FFX on one of its battles and I decided to help and damnnnnn. The strategic element for turn based games just never feel old. So good to get some thought into it
You're not wrong about 16. The combat is ridiculously easy with most enemies dying in a few hits. The game also doesn't call for any strategy since elemental weaknesses don't exist (you can kill bombs with fire spells) and you can spam the first two fire eikon attacks in most battles. And then there's the useless stats, useless party members and the half baked gear and crafting systems.
this was a mindset born from the rise and success of kingdom hearts on the ps2 once that game came out you had game journalists and fanboys of that game coming out to bash turn based rpg's claiming that its outdated and no longer needed since graphics and hardware got better
I think the only things about turn-based rpgs that you could call outdated are quality of life aspects that are more indicative of the time period rather than the genre, things like badly implemented random encounters, slow ass combat, the need to grind or the combat is shallow and uninteresting which is true for most games nowadays honestly, turn-based or not. FFX is a game that just won't die, ever, the foundations are too solid for it to fail or become outdated, while shin megami tensei is a game that plays in almost the exact same way as you did smt nocturne and is one of the best jrpgs to come out in a while
You missed probably the biggest one, the strategy from being able to control a large party of characters. People act like games back in the day were turned bases for no reason. Till this day, no one has really implemented a system that will allow you to control 3 to5 characters in real-time successfully. However, by going turn based, or some form of a paused or slowed time battle system allows for you to strategically choose various factors to win battles. From who is in your party in the first place, to the skills of each character you level up or choose, to each characters equipment, to the positioning of each character, etc. It is that strategy which creates the fun of the gameplay. People that don't enjoy that are just people who don't like to think and just like "Mashing buttons" and "seeing cool stuff on screen". It comes from this current generation of wanting "Instant Gratification", not having patience, and not wanting to think or work for anything.
I would say that Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Tales of Arise, and Sword and Fairy 7 all succeed (to varying degrees) at translating 3-character party management to real-time combat. Also, fuck off with your gaming grandpa elitism.
Turn-Based will never be outdated. It has been on the decline with Japanese developers trying to appeal to the west but then you got developers still giving us turn-based hits like Persona, Yakuza Like a Dragon, and even Honkai Star Rail. Yakuza Like a Dragon was amazingly fun.
this will never not be hilarious to me that Square Enix specifically were like "westerners can't sit still enough for TB so let's destroy our flagship identity to appeal to them" then Hoyo swoops in at the same time with Honkai and gets 20mil players. I've been laughing ever since
After playing so many turn-base rpgs, I can only tolerate super simple battle systems when everything else in the game stand out. Like you point out turn manipulation is great and more games should implement, personally I been wanting more and more to play games with free moviment or simply more complex systems maybe even waky ones that dont resemble any other games. One game that I will always defend is Dragon Quarter that battle system alone make it worth, since was very experimental at the time even if was taking a few cues from Sakura Wars 3 the system had its balance issues and the utility of some mechanics werent fully explored, I believe the Valkyria Chronicles games (havent try yet) have some similaries with the AP
Two turn-based systems that I really enjoyed were Radiant Historia and Wild Arms 5. I think the feature that I like that they both have in common is being able to group multiple enemies in the same area and hitting them all with single-target attacks (though that's not all I like about them).
The biggest problem with turn based is that AAA studios, in general, don't want to make them because the majority of players prefer action games, and AAA games are made for the majority. Plain and simple.
Turn based games never stopped being made so I always scratch my head when people go insane when say a FF game is not turn based. Who cares? Its also ok to like more than one combat system. I play RPGs for the story, characters, and music, not the combat system. That's just an extra.
I agree, while really fun combat can bring up a game to top tier status, for me it’s mainly just a vehicle to get to the big story and character moments. That and atmosphere are the main reasons I play RPGs, not really the combat
One of my absolute recent favs has been Ikenfell. Not only is it a great game with fun characters and story, but that COMBAT. Using mario rpg style timing elements mixed with tactics rpg positioning. Its genuinely really challenging and super fun. And if you arent into the timing aspect as much theres accessibility options to make them easier or just turn them off! And the gane works good without them too even if i prefer them. Truly a great game i recommend it for anyone who likes turn based rpgs. Its not too long either, between 15-20 hours and its cheap! Get it! Play it! Its great!
It's sad how Square-Enix seems so hellbent on killing turn-based RPGs, there's even the rumor that now they're planning on changing Dragon Quest! of all things the grandfather of JRPGs, the true last bastion of turn-based combat. If they really make DQ another "modern" action-oriented Devil May Cry clone then I really will be done with mainstream JRPGs from SE. Long live turn based RPGS!
WHAT?!! You guys need to do more research. They have actively been supporting turn-based games. They just focused more of them to AA development. They popularized HD2D with games like Octopath Traveler 1+2 and Triangle Strategy which is now giving rise to a whole SNES era resurgence of indie JRPGs. They have other games like Voice of Cards series. They just announced Dragon Quest Monsters: The Dark Prince. They are making a DQ3 remake. They made other turn based JRPGs in the past like World of Final Fantasy which saw little success even though it wasn't bad, and I don't think Bravely Default 2 sold as well. I think they are allowed to change up the Dragon Quest formula for once after 40 freaking years. My goodness.
I have found my people. Turn-Based RPGs might be my favorite genre of all video games, if only because I never really get tired of them. I think that's another good reason they will never be outdated, because I can't be the only one, you know?
Amazing video as always and a cool topic. Growing up with final fantasy and xenogears I loved turn-based battles, so your bits with newer games was really interesting. Picking a favorite, xenogears, but I'm biased as it's my favorite jrpg of all time. Looking forward to the next video!
The people who say RPGs are outdated are those same people back in the day that shit on RPGs even when they were one of the most popular genres. The problem with today is that now everybody is a "gamer". And with that, comes alot of casual people who normally like to play games that are like movies and take no amount of effort or thinking. Give them a shooter, fifa, etc. just something they can pick up and put down in 10 minutes and they love it. Anything where they have to read, pay attention, micromanage multiple characters and well "ItS oUtDaTeD"
1:53 - Chess, is how generals used to teach young princes who would be king one day, tactics in war. Checkers, is the most simplistic, peasant accessible version of that I would imagine. It's like comparing Thor to Odin. Not the same game, not the same rules, not even remotely the same tactics involved. Just because the end goal is the same, doesn't make them similar as games. For my view, Turn Based is literally the ONLY way to viably offer the player control of more than one party member at a time. If a game is going to force me to have team mates I can build differently and control in any other aspect, there's no reason not to make it turn based. That's why TB will always be viable. Unless we're talking consumption. Then things get dicy, and I blame RNGesus. (Points for anyone who gets the joke)
I think and discuss this much the same way from a control aspect and use RTS games a lot as an example to highlight this point. Even the most carefully-designed RTS games don't predominantly favor players with the best strategy and tactics (as with the case of turn-based) so much as who can move their mouse and click and press hotkeys the fastest (the highest APM). And even the best RTS players with ridiculous 500+ actions per minute still can't control things and multitask nearly as fast as they optimally could since they can only look at one screen worth of information at a time and only perform one action a time, even if it's 500+ times per minute. I think Diablo clones are actually basically RTS games where you only control one unit, since they control very much the same with keyboard and mouse, yet they don't burn out slower players the same way RTS games do since even a slower player with a measly 100 APM can control the game near optimally. But as soon as we require controlling even two units in real-time, the optimal APM requirements already double in real-time to 200 APM or so, and with 4 characters, 400 APM or so, and so on. If there's a pausing aspect (RTWP), that can reduce the optimal APM requirements but I think people underestimate how frequently they'd need to jam the pause button every second or two if they really want to control things optimally with even 4 or 5 characters.
They're for people who can't adapt to action nowadays seems like and then they cry about it. Turned based games are almost always very easy. Allowing you to outlevel the challenge on easy enemies for hours but just hitting attack or allowing auto battle to play. Strategy games are still great. I'm 39, been playing RPGs since the NES and turned based bores me a lot faster than action RPGs and makes little sense lining them up to attack one at a time. I'm still going to play them but I see what they're being made less and less and less people are buying them.
There's this delusion that people who play turn based can't play action games. I play both. I can and do because these two systems aren't interchangeable. They scratch different itches altogether. This is because turnbased combat exists mostly so players can play more than one character at the same time and manage resources much in the way you do a party in DnD.
I love turn based games, think the problem with turn based RPGs nowadays is that to cater to wider audiences the devs have been dialing down the difficulty, which just makes them boring and tedious. If you can get through most of an RPG just using basic attacks or abilities with no real need to focus on strategy or build, then yeah I can see why some people might be put off by them.
Im worried for the future of turn based rpgs. The success of FF16 will surely influence the market to some degree. Its a shame. Really hope FF goes back to turn based but i doubt it at this point.
We are yet to see if its a success or not. overshadowed by the glowing ratings given by paid commercial reviewers, or shills as i like to call them, is a very disappointed community in many elements of the game. After the dust settles from the all the hype, we will see if its really successful or not. And 3 mil shipped and sold (which is not 3mil sold) is imo a far cry from SE expectations to reach a broader audience.
The most underrated turn based RPG genre is the physical based sling shot combat mechanic like DDTank but offline, I'm surprise that no one has make this.
Chained Echoes is hands down one of the best RPG experiences I've played in years. Here's to hoping Sea of Stars lives up to all the - hopefully - well deserved hype.
The Shadow Hearts series greatly improved what Legend of Dragoon was trying to do. Still can get tricky, but you could modify the disks. And you can see the character attack after you complete the action instead of those icons for the button press.
I feel that turn-based battles have an aspect that cannot be done with any other kind of battle system, they give the player full and equal control over a party of characters. Real-time battles can only practically give the player control over one character at a time, leaving the rest of the party to be directed by AI. This makes the rest of the party inconsequential in battle compared to the main character.
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Two Tidbits: ACTION RPG's are OLDER than turn based By years. Square did not invent TURN BASED FALCOM did.
I'll never get tired of that incredible opening. Will you release an independent video of it?
19:40 what is that game? ps1??
Have you guys played any of the growlanser games? They have interesting turn based system too.
I've heard people say that action combat is the evolution of turn based combat and i disagree, they're just 2 different styles
💯
Agreed
action rpg are just beat em up with rpg elements
@@naytcrow well, could also be fighter game style action, or fps action, etc. Also I'd mention that there is also an important distinction in the AMOUNT of action... so Secret of Mana is an arpg, sure. But it is ina whole different genre than, say, Blade and Soul, or ... uh... Black Desert Online. Those are super twitch action whereas grandmas can play SoM. SoM is a aRPG, BDO is an Arpg. EQ, say, is a direct translation of RPG combat into real time live action, *while keeping the RPG combat pace.*
Yeah, action combat is literally the very firsr ever.
I think a strength that turn based games have over action is being able to control multiple characters at the same time. Sure there are action RPGs where you can change characters on the fly, but in a turn based RPG, everyone's working together simultaneously and you're in control of it all. You simply can't do that in a real time game. That reason alone gives turn based RPGs value, imo
Yes. You get a certain role playing experience out of turn based strategy games you can't get with action games. The pace allows for introspection and thought to be placed on the characters and story.
A lot of people don't understand this
Realtime strategy is a genre Bro. I don't like it but it's a thing.
I legitimately will not play an action rpg where you have multiple party members, I just can't get with that style. Which means I miss out on a lot of modern action rpg's, but I'm ok with that.
@@JSmoothSoulrealtime strategy games have dogshit combat on an individual level, but it's a strategy game so it dosen't matter
A turn based characters can have hundreds of abilities, magics, skills etc etc while a RTS character would just do a basic attack repeatedly with the same damage
This is why designing a great party of characters for turn based RPG's is way more essential than action ones.
Saying turn based combat is outdated is like saying 2D art is outdated. 2D is an art style many people will continue to love in the same way turn based combat is a genre many will continue to love even if the main stream moves away from it. Videos games are a form of art and art will always be subjective
Personally i love turn based videogames!
Not gonna I feel like anyone that says turn based RPG's are outdated have only played pokemon and nothing else
Outdated? no. Does it sell well? no. Even the best selling turn based game, pales in comparison to action games in terms of budget & revenue (except Pokemon I guess)
Ff16 fanbois disagrees
@@arisuaozora that game is garbage its an action game and not even an rpg
@@zatchbells ikr, its ffxiv -2 basically. Same mog design.
Turn based RPG are NEVER outdated or "getting old" even if we get modern releases like Octopath Traveler 2 and Chained Echoes the combat system just never gets old (to me that is).
it never gets old to you because you are getting older with it. Come on
However, Octopath Traveler 2 was a certified flop sales-wise. People aren't buying them.
@@ZephyrFateGames like Persona and Smt are only growing in popularity so Octopath 2 isn't the only example one should give.
@@ZephyrFatewhat do you mean it's a flop? Octopath 2 sold over a million copies already
@@NaroLucian thanks to lack of promotion from Square, it's sales multiplatform barely reached sales of the 1st when it was Nintendo exclusive ans promoted to hell by Nintendo.
bravely default is also an excellent example for modern turn-based RPG
Was trying to find a bravely default comment! Only wish the story/gameplay loop were handled better...
i am currently playing it and i love it. Soundtrack is way too good
Tried it so many times and just can't get into it's gameplay whatsoever. I feel like I don't understand something about it, since I'm just in love with Octopath.
No one EVER EVER talks about Vagrant Story. It may have had the most unique battle system ever. A hybrid of action rpg and turn based with chain attacks aaaand weapon range factors used to target specific body parts etc. And no random encounters. Enemies were on screen.
Mix that with old school Resident evil and you have parasite eve, very good games (except the last one), vagrant story also was very good, but both are practically the definition of a niche game, hope they get a remaster or a remake, a proper remake of a studio that knows what made those games special.
One said that vagrant was like the first darksoul...i died many times
I have it, and I would love to see a modern game implement its mechanics - or failing that, at least a Vagrant Story remaster that kept the battle system.
The problem is that it had not very logical and sometimes unfair mechanics, doubt having a guy in frunt of you and miss the hit ahahaha hate it
Indivisible was also a great spiritual sequel, sadly overlooked.
Turn based RPGs are the best. They're not called turn "based" for no reason.
Based.
Based and turn pilled.
Eh, i don’t think so at all. And it’s not exactly the combat systems fault but very few turn based combat nowadays rarely feels very interesting. Octopath/shin megami tensei 4/apocalypse are the best examples of modern turn based though. But even smt ruined its combat in 5.
@@morriganrenfield8240 It is indeed territory that has been covered and conquered, time and time again, but for me personally, I just never really get tired of turn-based RPGs.
It's like my "home" genre, haha.
Based
I’m surprised we haven’t seen more games adopt Legend of Legaia’s battle system. For those who don’t know, you inputted different directions on the D-pad for combos, and as you leveled up, you had more slots added for additional input. Mostly, your “combos” wouldn’t amount to anything, but other times, you stumbled upon a special combination of directions that unlocked special moves with a corresponding animation and increased attack damage. That discovery feeling was intoxicating.
I’ve been waiting for anyone to re release that game. I remember as a kid I jumped back and forth between FF7 and Legend of Legaia because I liked the story and how easy FF7 was but I enjoyed the combat and difficulty of Legend of Legaia better.
Such a fun game!
Mannnn, such a good battle system, such a good game, such a fire soundtrack.
I’m tempted to get myself a PC this weekend just to emulate it and have a challenge where arts can only be learned using the auto battle feature. I remember it wasn’t an easy game when I was younger but I think it would be fun.
Lost Odyssey a older Xbox JRPG also had something like this with its turned based combat. Kinda similar to Legends of Dragoon for those older folks like myself who grew up in that era
I think this argument of "Turn based is outdated" is so dumb mainly because a lot of people online just don't know how to accept that they have a PREFERENCE, and not everything has to be to their tastes.
Some people enjoy slow/paced combat! And others may prefer something more actiony and fast paced! One doesn't have to erase the other.
Thank you for telling this
I agree, even in this comment section there’s a lot of people choosing sides meanwhile I’m just over here enjoying both lol. With that said I do prefer turn based, however that doesn’t stop me from being able to enjoy action games too
People cant differentiate between liking things and evaluating things. I can LIKE a piece of media and still know it is objectively bad/low quality/has many flaws etc.
I can LIKE turn based rpgs and still reflect on the genre as being outdated, if we think about defining the term. Which i did but im too lazy to write down on my phone.
@@CoNteMpTone you put it best. Cause i agree Turn Based is outdated but i still love it. No sane Person can look at a turn based game that was made to step around severe limitations as modern and impressive. But for ME i only like games that make me think and give me time to LET ME THINK. Not mindlessly input commands and use timing.
People also don’t like only comedy or only action movies. There’s days where I’ll play battlefield, call of duty, chivalry 2. Other days I’ll be into persona, smt or yakuza. Peoples tastes aren’t two dimensional.
Thank you for making this.
It's pretty odd when anyone actually says turn-based games are dead, like there'll never be turn-based games from this point forward. Not everybody wants super high-octane car chase/explosion action stuff all the time. People want strategy games, cozy games, story games, etc. too. It's okay for different people to like different stuff.
Anyways, it's a great video. I'm glad to see jrpgs making a resurgence in recent years. :)
I would love if more rpgs adopted the paper mario/mario rpg type combat where it more interactive without having to sacrifice the turn based elements. Turn based RPG will never die as long as ppl are spicing up the formula.
A lot of turn based RPGs do these days. One of my favorite turn based RPGs is FF13 and I barely consider it turned based.... but it is.
Sea of stars has this recent formula & Bugs fable check them out if you haven't already! Sea of stars is more chrono trigger though & bug fables is just like paper mario.
Timing block/dodge and additional attacks are great for turn-based gameplay.
Just don't make it DrakeNieR
Yakuza: Like A Dragon had this implemented, though not fully. When your character used a skill, you either had to press Square rapidly or press Triangle at a certain time to increase the damage, and when your character was attacked if you pressed Circle at the right time it would reduce the damage. Nothing for your characters basic attacks though, and once you leveled up high enough you wouldn't need the damage boost to one shot enemies, but at least it's partially there, and in the early game before you're leveled up, some fights hinge on these timing presses as well, which makes things more interesting.
@@Kennosuke88you just reminded me that I should continue playing sea of stars
In Bravely Default, you can defend (Default) to gain BP, and later spend BP in either strong moves or extra turns. Very cool turn manipulation.
As much as I tried it out, I just couldn't figure out this battle system to not be boring because of the exploitability of it. Somehow, Octopath made so much more sense instantly, while with Bravely there's like no reason to use Default at all. Either stuck Bravely or just attack as normal.
@@Louis_Cyphriel Default can be used to make turns a bit more efficient. You could attack twice and get hit twice, or Default first, Brave on turn two, get hit 1.5 times damage over those two turns. Or, your healer isn't going to be able to do much this turn as everyone is full, so Default, save that turn you stored when needed later.
You can also go into BP debt by having turns you'd have later earlier which makes it way more dynamic
Yakuza : Like A Dragon legit got me back into this genre. That game was perfect to me, the random encounters were fast, the visuals kept me engaged, the story was incredibly well told, and the music was lit. I still hum the battle theme in my head. Best modern JRPG I've played recently, though i don't have nearly the amount of time necessary to play alot of games these days.
I agree it has got to be if not the best Turn Based RPG of all time
Persona 5 for me
Agreed! Really looking forward to the sequel. Can't come soon enough. Been looking for anything else that comes close to it, but without success. Honkai Star Rail comes closest, but as a gacha the story delivery being drip fed means it'll take forever.
@@porina_pew I can't think of anything that comes remotely close. Persona 5 is in the ballpark, but not quite, as it's still a persona game and leans heavy into the fantasy themes. Closest we'll get more than likely is the actual sequel, which can't come soon enough IMO.
it would've been better without random encounters
As a guy who watches A LOT of football, I appreciate the gap you bridged between the needs and the jocks 😂 I was waiting for you to cover strategy rpgs, but great video man! 👍
As a 47 year old, I've defended TB RPGs all throughout my life. Used to get hated for it on sites I wrote for or forums I was on. Yet get this: I know this kid at work, 24 years old, and HE agrees with me. Turn-based is better. Kid is the light of hope.
This is great to hear. I’ve read some comments on the channel from younger kids who are still interested in checking out the SNES/PS1 turn based classics which gives me hope as well
Personally I don't believe one is better than the other, I just love RPG'S.
I am 17 and I agree, most action games are button mashy, some of them are good but most aren't
I’d argue that neither type of game is better I like them both
One thing I’ve always respected about RPGs in general, and turn-based games in particular, is the sheer variety in systems that have been developed. Every single turn-based RPG I’ve ever played has always had its own unique take on turn-based mechanics. And not just subtle differences either, but often vastly different designs for combat structure, pacing, specific systems (use of magic, card-based, point pools, etc.), and player choice. Some have been more action-focused, others strategy-with both being genres in their own right. Shit, I’d argue the depth and diversity in turn-based games is far, far greater than most of the popular genres out there. Not superficially either, but conceptually and structurally. Where gamers are forced to re-learn a game like chess each and every time they pick up a new title: the pieces are same but the rules have all been rewritten. Always building on what came before it, always evolving, and limited by nothing but a developers creativity. Anyone thinking the genre is dead is… I guess, entitled to their dead-wrong opinion. And probably not to be trusted to watch your kids or pets.
I really like the combat system of the Grandia series and Final Fantasy 12. I feel like they blend the real time and turn based combat and make the gameplay more fluid. The fact that you can also pause, have a breather and get a grip on your surroundings before choosing your next action is great
I think Grandia 1 and 2 might be a little better imo.
I'm w/ you. Loved FF12's Gambit system. So much opportunity. I'd add Baldur's Gate 1/2. While CRPG, they combine realtime w/ some mild turn-based elements like casting times and the ability to pause whenever.
I just loved how you get to control the character movement during battle in DQ11. It added no value but made the tedium of basic turn-based combat kind of unique and fun
One of my favorites battle system is the one of phantasy star 4. The macros and how the order of the macro makes the speed of the characters change it's awesome
Exactly! I'm surprised Broductions didn't catch that one. It did the combination magic system that BOF4 was mentioned for first, AND has a simple, elegant solution for making those combos easier. With Macros, you can open the menu before combat, and slot in which party member uses which skill and when. Enemies can still, sometimes, interrupt their initiative, but using Macros, setting combo participants next to one another in turn order is a BIG help. (as long as you put the slower participants earlier, for best results)
Chaz: Tsu
Rune: Wat
Alys: Foi
TRIBLASTER
????
PROFIT
Turn-based RPGs are a genera that can accept all sorts of things and still be a Turn-based rpg. I mean, it's probably the most trivial way to implement any combat mechanics. As long you have an object with a number associated to it that you want to turn into 0, while avoiding one number associated to the player to go to 0, and you take turns to try diminishing it, it's already a minimum viable product example of a turn-based RPG mechanic. You can literally do this with dices and a pen, or even rock-paper-scissors with best of 10.
Since it's so simple to implement, devs can make their talent go wild, just like how musicians can go wild with just the seven notes of the C Major Scale. I think, as an aspiring musician, that the turn-based rpg mechanics are to games as DAWs are to music: It let's you focus on other things that you want to focus. I don't think I'd ever be able to try being a musician without a DAW, since I cannot play an entire orchestra or a studio setup for myself, nor I can afford hiring one. I think most devs wouldn't be able to turn their ideas into games either if they had always to make combat be in real time.
To be honest, I don't doubt the majority of video games on internet are either Turn-based RPGs, Point-and-click adventure games and Visual Novels, which at least on gameplay mechanics are the easiest genera to implement, especially with the existence of tools like RPG Maker and Ren'py. If you are good at drawing or writing, all three play along really well with your skills, so you don't need to afoord another person in your tight budget, specially on more personal projects you want full control.
I'm planning to make a game, and I'm still in doubt whether I do an Turn-Based RPG or a Deck-Based RPG for the combat mechanics. Maybe I'll do both at the same time. Cards are not much different than menu buttons in functionality after all, but are cooler in looks. It feels good to have a card in your digital deck.
This is a perfect example of why turn based games are still relevant. Ideas can come about and systems don't have to remain stagnant. Really great video!
Thanks! Yeah I feel there’s a lot of untapped potential to still be explored for sure
The biggest thing to me is how JRPGs have kept turn based alive, but it's also the bright cartoony aesthetics, team based gameplay and anime story telling that JRPGs bring to the table that I find varied, fun and nostalgic. Western RPGs tend to favour solo action RPGs and realistic dark aesthetics with morally grey story, something that everyone thought was the future when turn based JRPGs fell out of favor for western action RPGs in late 2000s. Today both can exist together and should, for they do things very different.
JRPG isn't RPG actually, there is no real role playing, you can't be anything you want.
When I played DoS2, I realized that JRPG sucks ass and only Persona series have the little bit of roleplaying. FF? nah....it's just a fuckin story telling with turn-based combat, except FF14 (which I think is the best FF in the series, don't judge me)
Slightly disagree with that I think Western RPG that are based off tabletop rpg also kept turn base in them and they kept it alive as well.
@@ampur2you have clearly not played many JRPGs.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 give me a couple of your examples of "JRPGs" that disagree with my statement that says that JRPGs doesn't have any role playing (except the role you are forced into).
"You have clearly not played many JRPGs" lmao, I wouldn't come to this conclusion if I haven't played most games tagged with RPGs dumbass
Great video! I recently finished playing through the Trails in the Sky trilogy for the first time and I loved the combat system. There is so much strategy involved with it, not only based on which characters you decide to use, but what you mentioned about the different abilities and status effects that pop up throughout the battles. What an excellent story too. Okay, when are you going to a dedicated video to a Trails game? Haha!
I prefer turn based rpgs due to making strategic decisions and seeing the outcomes at my own pace. Even atb type systems & auto battlers like ff13 & xenoblade chronicles offer the same feeling to a degree. I don't like all my rpgs feeling like an open-world version of devil may cry. Not knocking action games by any means, they're just great for a certain mood. I played an arpg recently that had a "classic mode" that swapped the encounters to be turn based and it was awesome having that option!
I think a more dynamic camera during turn based combat would help. There's no reason a battle couldnt play out like a Naughty Dog cutscene. Animations could be totally fluid once you've chosen the attack.
While not as dynamic, I really like how Yakuza Like a Dragon has such a fluid combat for a turn based game. You also time dodges and hits and you see every action happen on the field. Everyone is constantly moving and your positioning matters. Depending on where you are or if you are near a certain team member you may do a follow up action or grab a nearby obstacle and start swinging.
Yea there are definitely options and turn based or strategy games have never reached their full potential imo.
FFVII came up with camera angles in battle. Grandia 2 had it too. So did Panzer Dragoon Saga.
This! Turn based gameplay minimizes player input to focus on strategy but because there's less opportunity for the player to screw up and less variables in what they choose to do, they are built to be cinematic
It's been fun watching this conversation take place in the Gatcha sphere with the guys who made Genshin releasing their follow up, a turn based RPG.
SaGa Scarlet Grace is a really good example of a modern RPG with a turn order bar, allows for a LOT of manipulation with characters able to see an enemy's pierce attack coming and setup a counter for it.
I don't think turn-based games as a whole are outdated, but I think the RPGMaker/Dragon Quest/FF1-3 traditional formula is.
There is so much you can do with turn-based gameplay. We have numerous amounts of tactical turn-based games that add a lot more depth and layers to the traditional formula. Then we have games like Earthbound/Undertale, Yakuza LaD, and Mario and Luigi RPG series that adds more engagement due to actively dodging and timing hits. Lastly, you have hybrids like Xenoblade Chronicles and FF7 Remake (I think it nailed the balance between action and turn-based combat).
There is a world of difference between something like Divinity Original Sin 2 and Advance Wars than a formulaic turn-based games that chase the classics without doing anything novel. I think modern turn-based games need more engagement and depth as well as less reliance on grinding (trash mobs) and more unique and memorable enemy encounters.
I love turn-based and tactical combat systems, they're like a chess tournament with increasingly interesting opponents, they make you think with your head instead of stupidly pounding one button to stab your opponent with your sword.
Pick attack from menu =chess you're so desperate to feel smarter or more skilled than a Gta, Red Dead, Skyrim or soulslike 100 percenter for a little bit of menuing gtfo 😂 the games I mentioned cleary take more skill and know how & trial and error for a first time player than any turn based rpg, but turn based is chessss oookay smarty! you so smart for clicking big damage out of the menu! Much moreso than me and my fast twich reflexes it took to beat all the bosses on Nioh 0 damage. 😂🤓🤫😂😂
Great video, you guys make a lot of excellent points covering systems near and dear to my heart. Though I think my personal favorite will always be the "plan ahead" style of games like FF10. Though SMT is a close second. On the topic of games that have turn manipulation if any of you haven't played Radiant Historia you should seriously check it out anyway you can. Originally a DS game IIRC it got a re-release on the 3DS. Personally I'd just emulate the original but you didn't hear that from me ; )
This vid was so much fun to sit through. The Toonami like feeling I got from the intro/outro/intermission, the amazing music throughout the whole thing, the lore at the end and a bonus cat toy vid tossed in for good measure. This was just great, put me in such a good mood! :D
As requested, I would Skies of Arcadia's Spirit Points system is basically a Stamina system or at least a hybrid. Spirit Points regenerate at a certain rate per round, and skills cost SP. The max SP and regeneration rate grow with your level. Regular attacks, magic, items, or defending don't cost SP however, so you can use those strategically to save up SP.
Also bonus points for element-based combat and extra point for ship-based combat. The main complaint is a high random encounter rate of the original on the DC, but that was fixed on the GC port. If you haven't, there's basically no reason to not play it.
That intro song is a banger. Also a great video for a great topic. Instantly subscribed.
Thanks for subscribing, welcome!
Agreed. I'm making a turn-based rpg myself and im using a realtime/turnbased system with a time bar like Grandia!
I feel like bravely default is the answer to a lot of the issues. It really went out of its way to be approachable and player friendly.
Excellent vid with some big classics.
Chrono series, Breath of Fire 4, Valkyrie Profile, Grandia.
"Turn based is outdated"
The sales of Persona 5 and DQ11 proves this fallacy completely wrong by the millions. Last time i checked(it's been a while so fact check me) I'm pretty sure they've both outsold FF7r.
yes but only because those games had great stories and soundtracks, otherwise turn based is thing of the past.
Huh? P5 required 3years to break 3million sales when ff7r only needed 1week.
@@mehdihachlaf5081 So you disproved your own argument by pushing the point that "Any system will be good as long as the product is made with quality"
@mehdihachlaf5081 not true. It's like saying chess is outdated because sports exist.
Turn based or strategy based games in general provide a different experience from action titles and they are not outdated or a thing of the past because you don't understand that
@KaiHyouookami not really, it's good to consider that those games sell mostly due to nostalgia, just like pokemon, turn based is outdated, slow ans boring as hell to me.
I was turn based only for a long time (other than kingdom hearts). I was just bad at and stressed by action games. I recently fell into the Monster Hunter Rise black hole and “got gud” through some arduous practice and now I am still bad at action games, but I’m not AS bad and I enjoy them a lot more.
Really love when you make videos like these, I can re-find my love for the genre and find some hidden gems to play, also a reminder of my Wishlist
Octopath Traveler showed intelligent and challenging turn based combat is still absolutely viable and not outdated. IMO the very reason games like Chrono Cross (tied for my favorite game of all time with FFVII) are still remembered as a classic is that IMO the combat is still fun and unique, while still being turn based.
There’s also the fact that taking turns in its essence is a concept very familiar to humans. Waiting our turn and planning those turns ahead is something we all can relate to; gamer or non-gamer. Just like life, it’s easy to grasp, but can be difficult to master.
When it all comes down to it; life is a lot like a turn based combat system. 😅
Octopath Traveler was a refreshing experience in an era where JRPGs all compete over who’s got the most flashy real-time combat system and graphics, completely forgetting what made those games great to begin with. Dragon Quest XI was a great game, with fun combat, while staying true to its roots.
Also, Legend of Legaia! Underrated game IMO. :)
I wish we'd get more turn-based RPGs. Especially JRPGs. If FF16 was turn-based, I'd be ecstatic.
Same for me. I was hoping that if anyone could come up with an innovative turned based rpg it would be square but it seems like they have gone to the point of no return now.
Me too. I hope FF16 would had at least a battle system like Tales of saga 😢 not a complete hack and Slash.
Honestly I thought FF7 remake, and FF15 were garbage. If it isn't turn based, it certainly isn't final fantasy. They have failed us. I don't recall even paying attention to my materia in remake, I just mashed buttons until I won EVERY combat. And walking around repetitive, depressing midgar the whole game? Nope, I only completed it because I loved the original so much. As far as FF15, as soon as I started driving around in a car with 3 dudes in leather pants, I puked in my mouth a bit. Then when I learned the combat, I snapped the disk in half to prevent future generations from having to experience such garbage. Final fantasy has.complwtely failed us, it it time we admit it. FF16, is just more of the same nonsense. Let's stop deluding ourselves into thinking final fantasy has evolved into something good. It hasn't.
@@russellg9622Just play Bravely Default. It's classic Final Fantasy in practically everything but name.
if FF16 was turn-based, it's just another generic FF game, only the same old customer would play, some might even not, no newcomer will even touch the fuckin game because it says 16.
Remember, this year’s most acclaimed video game is Baldur’s Gate 3, a turn-based RPG. The best-selling RPG franchise of all time is Pokémon, which is again turn-based. People are even hyped about Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario: Thousand-Year Door remakes.
Turn-based combat is not going away anytime soon. ^-^
I think the people making the argument that turn based RPGs are outdated just don't like turn based RPGs. And not liking them is ok, but not every playstyle has to be catered to every player. Action players can't say they're outdated just because they prefer instant gratification and don't want to strategize - there are plenty of people who want the opposite.
I have 2 problems in mind with turn based rpg. It is that usually when you learn a new skill/move, it makes the previous move/skill obsolete like i noticed in Like a Dragon 7. Once you learn the essence skills, there is little point in using the first few skills of that job. And yeah i know they balance that by having high mp cost, but can be solved by using mp recovery items. My other problem is how the equipments in turn based rpg if not most rpg are just stats sticks, bland, basic, and generic, and nothing unique or interesting like add effects to a specific skill(s) or change how you play that character. Like a build diversity. No, they're usually go the route of "best in slot" equipment type of RPG.
You nailed most of my favorite systems. I will def add Saga Frontier for me. Sparking new techs and finding new combos on each playthrough is still fun as hell for me. I still need to play radiant historia, but that system of using more turns to do crazier attacks is such a cool and unique one.
Bravely Default 2
- Turn based, random encounters, grindy
- Do not have to go into the random encounters, can boost exp and speed of game by a ton (most likely will do this normally, but still)
Octopath Traveler and the BD series above is sort of like the stanima system of XG and Legend of Legia.
Lol the chrome trigger joke made me genuinely laugh. This is definitely one of my favorite TH-cam channels when I want to have a little nostalgia with some good jrpgs 🎉
I actually laughed out loud!
Haha love to hear that! Thanks for watching and glad to hear you enjoy the content
SaGa Scarlet Graces, yes play this game. The battle system is pretty impressive with a lot of variation in gameplay and adjusting for things. You have counter attacks (activated if somebody uses the type of attack that it counters) that will break up turn order, delayed attacks, fast attacks, and an ally/enemy killed with be taken off the turn grid, and then "link" the ones it was between together. If it's the same type (ally/ally or enemy/enemy), it'll immediately start a powerful followup attack with all of those units (without using their turn) on the next target that could potentially 1-shot them. Best part is both you and the enemy can use it. And every weapon specializes in something different here, which is what adds to the customization and strategy. Buffs and debuffs are really strong here too, and could potentially make/break you.
Choice can be punished and rewarded appropriately, due to the turn based nature.
I'm more of an action game fans, and action jrpgs like Tales series are also cool too but sometimes if i don't want any hand to eye coordinations gameplay i just switch to jrpg for relatively slower pace of gameplay and take my sweet time.
I'd say those who said turn based are outdated probably those who played turn based games that have annoying mechanics like you mentioned before like random encounters, too long attack animation, the game being a grindfest, etc.
I like it when we are not surrendering ourselves to rng 100% like Paper Mario and Shadow Hearts, it gives us a sense of believe that we are our own fate decider, how strong our attacks are 100% depends on us. Rng of our attacks being normal damage or critical damage are still okay for me tho. I hate it when an attack "miss" like wtf? usually i dropped the game immediately when there's a "miss" attack features like that (one reason why im not a big fan of mainline pokemon games). Weakness that doubles the damage and Resistance that halves the damage system feels waay more realistic than "hit or miss". Great vid as always!
They were never even struggling. The problem is the people that made them wanted to chase the huge numbers of more popular games like Red Dead Redemption, The Witcher, God of War, and other open-world games that predate them. They wanted those huge sales and weren't content unless they were selling 5m+ copies in the first three days. They could easily keep budgets down and produce games that would sell millions. They just choose to chase games that sell tens to hundreds of millions and fail to realize the people that buy their games aren't buying those aside from a choice few incredibly well polished insanely produced AAA games.
On the "random encounters" front, as you mentioned, not many modern games have them. I'd also add that some Action RPGs also have random encounters (Star Ocean/Tales of).
Honestly see morewhining about games NOT being turn based anymore and immediately dismissing whatever the newest rpg is because it's action based. Especially when the new game is a Final Fantasy title.
It is getting really annoying. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills looking at people crying about there being no turn-based games when there has been a huge resurgence of them lately. I'm also sure most of these people didn't buy Legend of Heroes Trails series, Disgaea, SMT IV and V, Darkest Dungeon, Siralim, Mario and Rabbids games, and don't even acknowledge games like Divinity original Sin 2 and the upcoming Baldur's Gate. I think these people just want traditional JRPGs that haven't evolved much and can't understand why others have moved on.
Imagine pokemon moving around the field after attacking like in Grandia
Another fantastic video guys! I love the way you break it all down and explain all the nuances of the different innovative ways developers have done turn based combat
I certainly hope they'll never be outdated! As someone who grew up playing Pokemon and not having great motor skills, strategic turn-based RPGs are my favorite kinds of games. I like Metroidvanias, a few different fighting games, and whatever you call the Legend of Zelda, but I prefer the combat styles of Pokemon, Persona, Fire Emblem, and the earlier Final Fantasy games.
Battle Chasers: Nightwar is such a GREAT turn based RPG, very simple, fast paced, great system, history etc etc
Some various thoughts:
I suspect a view of "turn-based as outdated" comes from the AAA studios doing their big budget AAA RPGs as action-RPG more often than not (there are still exceptions, like DQ11). They typically have their turn-based games as mid- or low-budget games that barely get any substantial marketing budget. So, based on how the big studios preferentially market fast-paced action games, the perception that turn-based is outdated kind of makes sense. I don't like it, because I value both action and turn-based combat systems, but oh well. As is usually the case with me these days, the indie scene has tons of gold often for much cheaper, so I'm still satisfied. Gimme Crosscode or Cat Quest for action and Monster Sanctuary or Chained Echoes for turn-based, and I'm a happy guy.
Though I kind of wish the studios known for RPGs would maybe revisit doing some big budget turn-based games now that Nintendo has basically released the near-perfect action-RPG game with Tears of the Kingdom (even though it still has the stupid durability and stamina mechanics from BotW). Gonna be hard for anyone else to top that as a AAA game.
re: Status effects, that's why I love Final Fantasy 5 so much. Nearly every boss is susceptible to some handful of meaningful status effects, which allows you to strategize approaching the fights. This is especially fun in the 4 Job Fiesta self-imposed challenge for the game.
Love the kitty and doggy conversation at the end. Makes me want to revisit Shining Force 2.
Thank you for making this. I was going to buy the ff7 remake until I saw they had switched from turn based. I think it’s more popular in general but I can never get into it.
Same reason preventing me from buying FF16
I have to agree with you, and yes it's the same reason modern FF don't click with me. Square-Enix seems hellbent on killing turn-based RPGs though with the rumor now that even Dragon Quest is going to be "modernized" and changed.
@@aetheruszhou1526yuuup! Same here dude!
@@AJ-po6up So "turn based" and "modern" does not belong in the same sentence. I kind of want to see some photo-realistic turn-based JRPG games that could push my GeForce RTX 4070 to the max even at 4K resolution. :)
FFVII's turn-based system with the materia was so much fun. I wish they would have kept it, maybe with a twist. Updated graphics and turn-based combat shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
What i like about turn based is that it doesnt rely much on mechanical skills so older people is not gonna be behind younger people in being good at the game
I'm really glad you made this video, you expressed a lot of the thoughts I've had. I have always hated the argument between turn based and action combat, both a great and both still have a place in the modern gaming market.
Absolutely, they both have their place in gaming and is just a matter of preference. I play and enjoy both
One of the best TBRPGs I've played lately was "Ruined King" from 2021. It uses a system sort of like the stamina system you mentioned in the video, but in a really interesting way. HP and MP are not refilled between fights, and using anything beyond a simple attack exhausts MP. But on every turn, you get "Overcharge" (stamina) which you can use instead of MP to execute your stronger attacks. It adds a ton of layers of strategy, especially with the variety of ways you can manipulate all of your resources.
By making it so your resources don't recharge between fights, it makes even the most mundane fights meaningful. Taking your time to build up stamina so you aren't exhausting MP might mean the enemy gets a few more turns to knock out some of your HP. And by the time you get to the boss, you want to make sure you aren't too low on either.
It has a lot of other strategic mechanics as well, and every character has a unique approach to all of them. It's a very well thought-out game.
Great video! Great examples and the visuals/sound design are so chill. I really like Octopath system however I wish they added (or all JRPGs added lol) an auto battle for lazy turns. if they want it to pick more then just attacks too that would be fine. I think combos and timed attacks could go a long way in most RPGs.
Thank you! An auto battle feature in Octopath would be really nice, selecting the right weaknesses for every enemy during random battles can get a little tedious lol. Maybe my only real gripe with the battle system
The big + of turn based, they allow for a much bigger toolset of spells and abilities that an action based combat system cannot match.
Thank you! This expressed everything I've been feeling and a lot more eloquently. Here's hoping turn based falls back in favor soon. I got FFXVI and I do like the story, I don't like the gameplay, I just wear the accessory that lets me mash square😑
Keep yer modern Final Devil-May-Cry-tasies! Turn-based battlers have never been in ruder health. SMTV, Persona 5, Chained Echoes, Sea Of Stars, all the glorious remasters and remakes (FFX), even Xenoblade is accessible to those who are ARPG-averse! Love it. We're very happy turn-based lovers at HyperPlay RPG Towers.
Been playing FF16 since release and was feeling.. Kinda stale. My sister was stuck on FFX on one of its battles and I decided to help and damnnnnn. The strategic element for turn based games just never feel old. So good to get some thought into it
You're not wrong about 16. The combat is ridiculously easy with most enemies dying in a few hits. The game also doesn't call for any strategy since elemental weaknesses don't exist (you can kill bombs with fire spells) and you can spam the first two fire eikon attacks in most battles. And then there's the useless stats, useless party members and the half baked gear and crafting systems.
I would also say that Fixed camera angles cannot be outdated.
I never understood people saying they’re outdated. Action rpgs go all the way back to the 80s lol.
this was a mindset born from the rise and success of kingdom hearts on the ps2 once that game came out you had game journalists and fanboys of that game coming out to bash turn based rpg's claiming that its outdated and no longer needed since graphics and hardware got better
Ys was sort of. You could count Zelda. Sword of Vermillion, Hydlide, I guess Ultima?
I think the only things about turn-based rpgs that you could call outdated are quality of life aspects that are more indicative of the time period rather than the genre, things like badly implemented random encounters, slow ass combat, the need to grind or the combat is shallow and uninteresting which is true for most games nowadays honestly, turn-based or not. FFX is a game that just won't die, ever, the foundations are too solid for it to fail or become outdated, while shin megami tensei is a game that plays in almost the exact same way as you did smt nocturne and is one of the best jrpgs to come out in a while
You missed probably the biggest one, the strategy from being able to control a large party of characters. People act like games back in the day were turned bases for no reason. Till this day, no one has really implemented a system that will allow you to control 3 to5 characters in real-time successfully. However, by going turn based, or some form of a paused or slowed time battle system allows for you to strategically choose various factors to win battles. From who is in your party in the first place, to the skills of each character you level up or choose, to each characters equipment, to the positioning of each character, etc. It is that strategy which creates the fun of the gameplay. People that don't enjoy that are just people who don't like to think and just like "Mashing buttons" and "seeing cool stuff on screen". It comes from this current generation of wanting "Instant Gratification", not having patience, and not wanting to think or work for anything.
I would say that Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Tales of Arise, and Sword and Fairy 7 all succeed (to varying degrees) at translating 3-character party management to real-time combat. Also, fuck off with your gaming grandpa elitism.
Which is why Final Fantasy X was so nice with it's side bar that showed you the order of characters in battle.
Your long intro video is a whole mood. I'd love to watch a 5+ minute video of just that
Thanks to Atlus and hopefully DQ12 no not outdated.
Can’t wait for the next entries
@@GamingBroductions I have faith Metaphor will be great.
Bro I played football for 7 years and never realized the reason it clicks with me so much is because it's pretty much a turn based game.
Turn-Based will never be outdated. It has been on the decline with Japanese developers trying to appeal to the west but then you got developers still giving us turn-based hits like Persona, Yakuza Like a Dragon, and even Honkai Star Rail. Yakuza Like a Dragon was amazingly fun.
So what you're saying is Sega is keeping the genre alive? :D
this will never not be hilarious to me that Square Enix specifically were like "westerners can't sit still enough for TB so let's destroy our flagship identity to appeal to them" then Hoyo swoops in at the same time with Honkai and gets 20mil players. I've been laughing ever since
After playing so many turn-base rpgs, I can only tolerate super simple battle systems when everything else in the game stand out. Like you point out turn manipulation is great and more games should implement, personally I been wanting more and more to play games with free moviment or simply more complex systems maybe even waky ones that dont resemble any other games. One game that I will always defend is Dragon Quarter that battle system alone make it worth, since was very experimental at the time even if was taking a few cues from Sakura Wars 3 the system had its balance issues and the utility of some mechanics werent fully explored, I believe the Valkyria Chronicles games (havent try yet) have some similaries with the AP
I guess the Action Points are kinda like a Stamina system in a way
I prefer turn based rpgs than action rpgs.
As long as Persona is making the big bucks i really dont think this genre has anything to worry about
Um... Pokémon?
Also octopath traveller was a nice return to the classic formats.
The Yakuza ( or rather now, the Like A Dragon) franchise going the Turn based route bodes pretty well for the genre too.
yeah. the last 10 games i have bought are either turn based rpgs or turn based strategy games.
I SEE GB, I CLICK.
Just fired this up with the popcorn- turnbased RPGs forever!
Bro fr I love when I see a new one of their vids in my sub box let’s goooo!!
@@murky16 big facts! they're the homies!
Hell yeah! I’ll never get tired of winding down to some classic turn based RPGs at night
Two turn-based systems that I really enjoyed were Radiant Historia and Wild Arms 5. I think the feature that I like that they both have in common is being able to group multiple enemies in the same area and hitting them all with single-target attacks (though that's not all I like about them).
Played Wild Arms 1-3. 3 had a different system than 1 and 2. No idea if the later ones were like that or not. Loved the first 3 though!
The biggest problem with turn based is that AAA studios, in general, don't want to make them because the majority of players prefer action games, and AAA games are made for the majority. Plain and simple.
So you end up with action RPGs with sexy anime girls. lol
@@macuser7048 I see this as an absolute win
Divinity Original Sin 2 has some of the best turn-based combat I've ever played. I wish there was an 'endless dungeon' mode to that game, haha.
Same. It really set the bar of RPGs for me in general. I loved how much freedom you had in and out of combat and how much depth there was.
Turn based games never stopped being made so I always scratch my head when people go insane when say a FF game is not turn based. Who cares? Its also ok to like more than one combat system. I play RPGs for the story, characters, and music, not the combat system. That's just an extra.
I agree, while really fun combat can bring up a game to top tier status, for me it’s mainly just a vehicle to get to the big story and character moments. That and atmosphere are the main reasons I play RPGs, not really the combat
One of my absolute recent favs has been Ikenfell. Not only is it a great game with fun characters and story, but that COMBAT. Using mario rpg style timing elements mixed with tactics rpg positioning. Its genuinely really challenging and super fun. And if you arent into the timing aspect as much theres accessibility options to make them easier or just turn them off! And the gane works good without them too even if i prefer them. Truly a great game i recommend it for anyone who likes turn based rpgs. Its not too long either, between 15-20 hours and its cheap! Get it! Play it! Its great!
It's sad how Square-Enix seems so hellbent on killing turn-based RPGs, there's even the rumor that now they're planning on changing Dragon Quest! of all things the grandfather of JRPGs, the true last bastion of turn-based combat. If they really make DQ another "modern" action-oriented Devil May Cry clone then I really will be done with mainstream JRPGs from SE.
Long live turn based RPGS!
Dq 12 is a commmand system it is turn based at least lol but if square wanna try make dq be appeal to god of war last of us fan they be tripping
WHAT?!! You guys need to do more research. They have actively been supporting turn-based games. They just focused more of them to AA development. They popularized HD2D with games like Octopath Traveler 1+2 and Triangle Strategy which is now giving rise to a whole SNES era resurgence of indie JRPGs. They have other games like Voice of Cards series. They just announced Dragon Quest Monsters: The Dark Prince. They are making a DQ3 remake. They made other turn based JRPGs in the past like World of Final Fantasy which saw little success even though it wasn't bad, and I don't think Bravely Default 2 sold as well. I think they are allowed to change up the Dragon Quest formula for once after 40 freaking years. My goodness.
Great video. I agree. There's so many different styles when it comes to turn base that I don't see it going away. Just need to know where to look
I have found my people. Turn-Based RPGs might be my favorite genre of all video games, if only because I never really get tired of them.
I think that's another good reason they will never be outdated, because I can't be the only one, you know?
Don't worry bro, you ain't the only one
Turn based and strategy shall live forever.
brainless mindless button mashers are bad
Amazing video as always and a cool topic. Growing up with final fantasy and xenogears I loved turn-based battles, so your bits with newer games was really interesting.
Picking a favorite, xenogears, but I'm biased as it's my favorite jrpg of all time.
Looking forward to the next video!
The people who say RPGs are outdated are those same people back in the day that shit on RPGs even when they were one of the most popular genres. The problem with today is that now everybody is a "gamer". And with that, comes alot of casual people who normally like to play games that are like movies and take no amount of effort or thinking. Give them a shooter, fifa, etc. just something they can pick up and put down in 10 minutes and they love it. Anything where they have to read, pay attention, micromanage multiple characters and well "ItS oUtDaTeD"
Facts and these same people have ruined FF it’s never gonna be the same again sadly 🤦🏽♂️ oh well at least 16 had a great story
1:53 - Chess, is how generals used to teach young princes who would be king one day, tactics in war. Checkers, is the most simplistic, peasant accessible version of that I would imagine. It's like comparing Thor to Odin. Not the same game, not the same rules, not even remotely the same tactics involved. Just because the end goal is the same, doesn't make them similar as games.
For my view, Turn Based is literally the ONLY way to viably offer the player control of more than one party member at a time. If a game is going to force me to have team mates I can build differently and control in any other aspect, there's no reason not to make it turn based. That's why TB will always be viable. Unless we're talking consumption. Then things get dicy, and I blame RNGesus. (Points for anyone who gets the joke)
I think and discuss this much the same way from a control aspect and use RTS games a lot as an example to highlight this point. Even the most carefully-designed RTS games don't predominantly favor players with the best strategy and tactics (as with the case of turn-based) so much as who can move their mouse and click and press hotkeys the fastest (the highest APM).
And even the best RTS players with ridiculous 500+ actions per minute still can't control things and multitask nearly as fast as they optimally could since they can only look at one screen worth of information at a time and only perform one action a time, even if it's 500+ times per minute.
I think Diablo clones are actually basically RTS games where you only control one unit, since they control very much the same with keyboard and mouse, yet they don't burn out slower players the same way RTS games do since even a slower player with a measly 100 APM can control the game near optimally. But as soon as we require controlling even two units in real-time, the optimal APM requirements already double in real-time to 200 APM or so, and with 4 characters, 400 APM or so, and so on. If there's a pausing aspect (RTWP), that can reduce the optimal APM requirements but I think people underestimate how frequently they'd need to jam the pause button every second or two if they really want to control things optimally with even 4 or 5 characters.
They're for people who can't adapt to action nowadays seems like and then they cry about it.
Turned based games are almost always very easy. Allowing you to outlevel the challenge on easy enemies for hours but just hitting attack or allowing auto battle to play. Strategy games are still great.
I'm 39, been playing RPGs since the NES and turned based bores me a lot faster than action RPGs and makes little sense lining them up to attack one at a time.
I'm still going to play them but I see what they're being made less and less and less people are buying them.
There's this delusion that people who play turn based can't play action games. I play both. I can and do because these two systems aren't interchangeable. They scratch different itches altogether. This is because turnbased combat exists mostly so players can play more than one character at the same time and manage resources much in the way you do a party in DnD.
@@rndhoody2634 I'm fine with turned based RPGs as long as they don't allow you to outlevel the challenge and aren't very slow.
lmao and action games can be very easy as well. If that is your only point, then you don't really have one.
You are the kind of person the first minute of the video makes fun of
Play actually good turn based games
I love turn based games, think the problem with turn based RPGs nowadays is that to cater to wider audiences the devs have been dialing down the difficulty, which just makes them boring and tedious. If you can get through most of an RPG just using basic attacks or abilities with no real need to focus on strategy or build, then yeah I can see why some people might be put off by them.
Im worried for the future of turn based rpgs. The success of FF16 will surely influence the market to some degree. Its a shame. Really hope FF goes back to turn based but i doubt it at this point.
We are yet to see if its a success or not. overshadowed by the glowing ratings given by paid commercial reviewers, or shills as i like to call them, is a very disappointed community in many elements of the game. After the dust settles from the all the hype, we will see if its really successful or not. And 3 mil shipped and sold (which is not 3mil sold) is imo a far cry from SE expectations to reach a broader audience.
The most underrated turn based RPG genre is the physical based sling shot combat mechanic like DDTank but offline, I'm surprise that no one has make this.
Chained Echoes is hands down one of the best RPG experiences I've played in years. Here's to hoping Sea of Stars lives up to all the - hopefully - well deserved hype.
The Shadow Hearts series greatly improved what Legend of Dragoon was trying to do. Still can get tricky, but you could modify the disks. And you can see the character attack after you complete the action instead of those icons for the button press.
First :)
Grats!
A special kind of needy.
I feel that turn-based battles have an aspect that cannot be done with any other kind of battle system, they give the player full and equal control over a party of characters. Real-time battles can only practically give the player control over one character at a time, leaving the rest of the party to be directed by AI. This makes the rest of the party inconsequential in battle compared to the main character.