As an airframe and powerplant technician I always love to see these opened up! Brilliant engineering going on here. Another point I have from observations as an aircraft mechanic is that an Attitude Indicator that is turned off will need to stabilize and fix itself to the pull of gravity when you turn on the aircraft power, every time. If they did not have those vanes to auto correct this would require a perfectly flat space and a perfectly level aircraft to zero the gyro. We do not have to do this because those vanes work.
Thank you, Bob! I feel like I’ve gained a better understanding of how pendulous vanes work. What an incredible piece of engineering! I am fascinated by the self-correcting feedback mechanism. It is so clever! (sigh, edit: veins -> vanes)
Look into a gyro compass. It doesn't use a magnetic needle or the earth's magnetic field. It uses gravity and the rotation of the earth. It will point to geographical north, where as a magnetic compass will point to magnetic north. Edited to add 'as'.
The pendulous vanes are dependent on apparent gravity. That is gravity and acceleration. You can get a lot of acceleration in the air. That is why you need the artificial horizon, the compass, the air speed indicator and the altimeter to control the situation when you can't look at the ground.
absolutely, and that is why you don't want instantaneous correction to the vector of gravity. Like the seat of your pants, it can be fooled in a turn. You want it stable during the turn, but to adjust over the long term when faced with curvature of the earth.
Yes, if the plane flew in a circle for hours, the vanes would cause the attitude indicator to adjust to that and show the bank to be "level". But in reality that rarely ever happens. Even holding patterns are not circular but oval, with straight sections between the turns, so the indicator will always have a chance to return to true level.
Before the final experiment, I invested $10,000 in copium and now I am richer than Elon Musk. Keep the videos coming, I love the flerf tears that will appear in the comment section. In one of the latest debates on ModernDayDebate, one of the flerfs used his misrepresentation (denial) of Pendoulus Vanes as "evidence" for flat earth.
Most of the time is repeating the same thing over and over, with inserts of other videos repeating the same thing over and over of things that have been already been repeated over and over.
Sorry Bob but I think you are giving the flat earth content creators too much credit. I believe that it's not that they don't understand it enough to make true statements about the subject, they are purposely misrepresenting it to fit their biased flat earth narrative. I mentioned in an earlier video of yours that the aircraft I flew required the attitude indicator to be caged while performing aerobatics but uncaged during normal flight, one of the content creators purposely stated to his viewers that the pendulous vanes are for aerobatics and not needed for normal flight. I'm sure he knew that was false but he saw it as an opportunity to twist the facts, which is typical of all flat earth content creators. BTW, Nice presentation, well done! 🙂
@@BobtheScienceGuy They have to behave like this because it's their very identity, it's their way of defending the idea that they are special, they do not want to be referred to as "Just another person is a sea of people". Sad thing, really! 😞
But dropout flatties(like Flatzoid especially) understand these things MUCH better than the actual engineers who design them. 🤣It might even be cute if they weren't old enough to get tarred & feathered. Nifty 20th century tech BTW. GLTF !
Not as easy to represent since you don't have physical correction devices but would love for you to do a video on modern electronic gyros and how they work in comparison.
@@BobtheScienceGuy very few modern planes are using mechanical gyros anymore. Granted I only fly small planes but the Garmin G1000 system is now using electronic systems. Obviously a bit more complex but similar to the gyros in your phone. Still using gravity to sense the downward vector but without mechanical spinning gyros.
@@BobtheScienceGuy Look into the GRS 77 component of the G1000 www.faasafety.gov/files/events/SO/SO09/2021/SO09104630/G1000_System_Components_QuickRef_Guide.pdf
@ace0007 This is a modern gyro. The fancy electronic ones you speak of are always backed up by one of these. In fact many of the more complex systems will have a master Gyro somewhere in the aircraft (Usually a dedicated avionics bay) that is controlling the instruments the pilots see.
Thanks Bob, great to cover this again. Flat Earther keep bringing up the same nonsense. I took my Artificial Horizon out of storage recently, It still works just like a new one. I should make more videos with it .
@@BobtheScienceGuy Ooooh, so... Is there just a constant stream of air going through that area, and the vanes just redistribute the airstream to blow the gyro back to level?
@@BobtheScienceGuy Ok, I think I get it. It's not a direct blowing of air that corrects. I misunderstood that. When open, the vane lets air *out* causing a kind of slight relative vacuum (ie: difference in air pressure)? Which then affects the gyro's rotation, which pushes it in the right direction to get back to level. I'm having a bit of trouble following, but is that anywhere close?
@@ulodetero Not quite. The air is not what makes the rotor spin. The two jets of air, on opposite sides act like tiny 'jet thrusters'. As the air rushes out, 3rd law of motion means there is an equal and opposite force on the casing. When both are partially covered, the reaction force from each jet 'pushes' on the case but they are opposite directions and cancel out. When one is blocked off, that jet's reaction force stops. With the force on one side not exactly cancelled by the jet on the opposite side, the NET force applied to the casing makes it precess. Once vertical and the vanes partially block BOTH jets, the net force from the jets are now equal (and opposite) so no more net force on the gyro case. The instrument in wolfie's video is electrically spun, so the rotor spinning is independent of the air flow. The jets of air flow are only to 'push' the side of the case when it's not properly vertical. Some older instruments actually used a small vacuum hose from the engine and 'suck' air through a tiny turbine to actually spin the rotor. Lose the engine and the gyro inside would stop spinning and the instrument no longer would work. (and that is a bad way to fly, no engine, no instrument).
Your starting comments are confusing. You talk about the Gyroscope and the attitude indicator as if they were totally separate instruments. 0:35 you say the "attitude indicator is self correcting", but the pendulous Vanes are actually on thr Gyroscope, as the caging and uncaging of the gyroscope demonstrates. It's the Gyroscope that is self correcting, not the attitude indicator.
@BobtheScienceGuy Yes. The PV affect the Gyro, NOT the indicator. There are no PV on the Altitude Indicator, ONLY on the Gyroscope. That's why I thought your description of the Altitude Indicator being "adjusted" by PV was innacurate. The PV alter the Gyroscope, which then secondarily alters the Altitude Indicator.
@ I told the last one that posted that, that I have a copy of a USAF navigation manual they teaches how to navigate on a globe. He just laughed it away and posted the same picture. Yes! They are idiots.
Would it be possible to 'cage out' one of these, then fly to, say Hawaii from LA, then uncage and watch it re-orientate itself? As the Earth is spherical perhaps the time to re-orientate could be calculated and then observed. I don't know how some of these Flat Earthlings know how to tie their shoes sometimes...especially the 'angle indicator' knot-heads!!!
If you cage it, it doesn’t work and that won’t be safe. You may want to look at the first attitude indicator video. Wolfie cages and uncages, then records the time to correct
@@BobtheScienceGuySomething to experiment is taking an external independent instrument to Hawaii, cage it in Hawaii, return it to LA, then measure the re-orientation time. To get a good statistical mean and reduce the standard deviation, this experiment must be performed a minimum of ten times. To maintain transparency and integrity, a minimum of five globers and flerfs should observe the experiment. We could call the it “The Next To Last Experiment “. 😉
lol. or you could just get the raw data from the IRS or a FOG you brought with you as a passenger. I've brought scales on aircraft and conducted experiments with the permission of the crew.
@@BobtheScienceGuy I mean one that isn't being used to fly...just one like using for training purposes. I don't know what IRS or FOG are. (Except the obvious😁) Do you have videos of these experiments?
It’s great to have an explanation of 1 piece of aircraft engineering explained in 15 mins, but you dd realise you’re preaching to the converted don’t you? I will eagerly wait for Flatzoid to debunk this vid with multiple pauses and ‘you’re wrong Bob’ comments, confirming his genius with all things aerospace/engineering/mechanics etc.
Amazing, I never knew how this worked. Incredibly informative
As an airframe and powerplant technician I always love to see these opened up! Brilliant engineering going on here. Another point I have from observations as an aircraft mechanic is that an Attitude Indicator that is turned off will need to stabilize and fix itself to the pull of gravity when you turn on the aircraft power, every time. If they did not have those vanes to auto correct this would require a perfectly flat space and a perfectly level aircraft to zero the gyro. We do not have to do this because those vanes work.
Thanks for sharing your experience as an A&P, the way they work is amazing!
Thanks Bob. That was a great lesson.
Glad it was helpful!
Nice explanation. Good to know rotational buoyancy isn't involved. ;-)
You're right, rotational buoyancy is a big no-no.
Thank you, Bob! I feel like I’ve gained a better understanding of how pendulous vanes work. What an incredible piece of engineering! I am fascinated by the self-correcting feedback mechanism. It is so clever! (sigh, edit: veins -> vanes)
If only there was a self-correcting mechanism for flerfs
Engineering is elegant in its simplicity at times
Look into a gyro compass. It doesn't use a magnetic needle or the earth's magnetic field. It uses gravity and the rotation of the earth. It will point to geographical north, where as a magnetic compass will point to magnetic north.
Edited to add 'as'.
Correct
"Pendulous vanes" *does* sound rather, erm, "medical", doesn't it? (Perhaps something that'd come up in "Theme Hospital", back in the day.)
This brings back a lot of memories. I worked on a lot of these many years ago. Thanks.
If i recall correctly this is like the third week of ground school. Great explanation Bob!
man that was so long ago
@ for me too
@ I should try again one day if I ever get enough money for the plane stuff
Thanks. I enjoy the engineering details.
Thanks for watching! The simplicity of engineering is elegant.
I think Bob is on the level.
I had never known how this mechanism worked. Great explanation, guys!
Great explanation.
This brings back memories of my instrument fitter training at Wagga.
The pendulous vanes are dependent on apparent gravity. That is gravity and acceleration. You can get a lot of acceleration in the air.
That is why you need the artificial horizon, the compass, the air speed indicator and the altimeter to control the situation when you can't look at the ground.
absolutely, and that is why you don't want instantaneous correction to the vector of gravity. Like the seat of your pants, it can be fooled in a turn. You want it stable during the turn, but to adjust over the long term when faced with curvature of the earth.
Yes, if the plane flew in a circle for hours, the vanes would cause the attitude indicator to adjust to that and show the bank to be "level". But in reality that rarely ever happens. Even holding patterns are not circular but oval, with straight sections between the turns, so the indicator will always have a chance to return to true level.
The doctor gave me special creme for my pendulous veins.
Before the final experiment, I invested $10,000 in copium and now I am richer than Elon Musk.
Keep the videos coming, I love the flerf tears that will appear in the comment section.
In one of the latest debates on ModernDayDebate, one of the flerfs used his misrepresentation (denial) of Pendoulus Vanes as "evidence" for flat earth.
Happy holidays everyone!
Same to you
This video is about 14 minutes too long for the average flerf attention span.
Most of the time is repeating the same thing over and over, with inserts of other videos repeating the same thing over and over of things that have been already been repeated over and over.
As the stars turn these are the days of our lives.
Nice teaching moment. To bad the flerfs are actively refusing to learn anything reality related.
I'm trying to focus on the science, but I guess it's a tough ask for some.
Sorry Bob but I think you are giving the flat earth content creators too much credit.
I believe that it's not that they don't understand it enough to make true statements about the subject, they are purposely misrepresenting it to fit their biased flat earth narrative.
I mentioned in an earlier video of yours that the aircraft I flew required the attitude indicator to be caged while performing aerobatics but uncaged during normal flight, one of the content creators purposely stated to his viewers that the pendulous vanes are for aerobatics and not needed for normal flight. I'm sure he knew that was false but he saw it as an opportunity to twist the facts, which is typical of all flat earth content creators.
BTW, Nice presentation, well done! 🙂
yes, they are coping hard
@@BobtheScienceGuy
They have to behave like this because it's their very identity, it's their way of defending the idea that they are special, they do not want to be referred to as "Just another person is a sea of people".
Sad thing, really! 😞
6 little flerfeez have had their feelings hurt by this video, so far
The four young women of Flat Earth:
1. Miss Conception
2. Miss Understanding
3. Miss Leading
4. Miss Information
All the gotchas flat-earthers think they have...
"Airplanes always pitch up"
"Gyros maintain rigidity in space"
Sound a little hollow now
Pendulous veiny nads
Ah, but they work by buoyancy and dens....
OK, I'll get me coat.
Ship gyrocompass are interesting. They "find" north when switched on.
Yes and use gyroscopic precession Diems to the rotation of earth to do so
But dropout flatties(like Flatzoid especially) understand these things MUCH better than the actual engineers who design them. 🤣It might even be cute if they weren't old enough to get tarred & feathered. Nifty 20th century tech BTW. GLTF !
Not as easy to represent since you don't have physical correction devices but would love for you to do a video on modern electronic gyros and how they work in comparison.
modern electronic gyros? not sure what you mean by that, but would like to hear.
@@BobtheScienceGuy very few modern planes are using mechanical gyros anymore. Granted I only fly small planes but the Garmin G1000 system is now using electronic systems. Obviously a bit more complex but similar to the gyros in your phone. Still using gravity to sense the downward vector but without mechanical spinning gyros.
@@BobtheScienceGuy Look into the GRS 77 component of the G1000 www.faasafety.gov/files/events/SO/SO09/2021/SO09104630/G1000_System_Components_QuickRef_Guide.pdf
@ace0007 This is a modern gyro. The fancy electronic ones you speak of are always backed up by one of these. In fact many of the more complex systems will have a master Gyro somewhere in the aircraft (Usually a dedicated avionics bay) that is controlling the instruments the pilots see.
@@ace00007 are you talking about a laser ring gyro in an IRS?
Thanks Bob, great to cover this again. Flat Earther keep bringing up the same nonsense. I took my Artificial Horizon out of storage recently, It still works just like a new one. I should make more videos with it .
OOOOOh I have such a problem with my pendulous vanes.
I haven't been able to sit down for weeks.
So, one thing I still don't get:
Why does a tiny change in air pressure affect the orientation of the gyro....?
Not a change in air pressure. A jet of air imparting a force on the gyro
@@BobtheScienceGuy
Ooooh, so...
Is there just a constant stream of air going through that area, and the vanes just redistribute the airstream to blow the gyro back to level?
When out of balance, the different airstreams impart different external forces on the gyro which cause it to precess 90 degrees to the applied force
@@BobtheScienceGuy
Ok, I think I get it. It's not a direct blowing of air that corrects. I misunderstood that.
When open, the vane lets air *out* causing a kind of slight relative vacuum (ie: difference in air pressure)? Which then affects the gyro's rotation, which pushes it in the right direction to get back to level.
I'm having a bit of trouble following, but is that anywhere close?
@@ulodetero Not quite. The air is not what makes the rotor spin. The two jets of air, on opposite sides act like tiny 'jet thrusters'. As the air rushes out, 3rd law of motion means there is an equal and opposite force on the casing. When both are partially covered, the reaction force from each jet 'pushes' on the case but they are opposite directions and cancel out. When one is blocked off, that jet's reaction force stops. With the force on one side not exactly cancelled by the jet on the opposite side, the NET force applied to the casing makes it precess. Once vertical and the vanes partially block BOTH jets, the net force from the jets are now equal (and opposite) so no more net force on the gyro case.
The instrument in wolfie's video is electrically spun, so the rotor spinning is independent of the air flow. The jets of air flow are only to 'push' the side of the case when it's not properly vertical. Some older instruments actually used a small vacuum hose from the engine and 'suck' air through a tiny turbine to actually spin the rotor. Lose the engine and the gyro inside would stop spinning and the instrument no longer would work. (and that is a bad way to fly, no engine, no instrument).
Your starting comments are confusing.
You talk about the Gyroscope and the attitude indicator as if they were totally separate instruments.
0:35 you say the "attitude indicator is self correcting", but the pendulous Vanes are actually on thr Gyroscope, as the caging and uncaging of the gyroscope demonstrates.
It's the Gyroscope that is self correcting, not the attitude indicator.
I think you are going a bit deep there.
the gyro is the stabilizing part of the AI and the PV affect the gyro to correct the readout of the AI
@BobtheScienceGuy Yes. The PV affect the Gyro, NOT the indicator.
There are no PV on the Altitude Indicator, ONLY on the Gyroscope.
That's why I thought your description of the Altitude Indicator being "adjusted" by PV was innacurate.
The PV alter the Gyroscope, which then secondarily alters the Altitude Indicator.
There have been flat earthers on Facebook posting pictures of aircraft instrument panels claiming it proves flat earth.😂
They are idiots. I am an actual pilot as is Wolfie
@ I told the last one that posted that, that I have a copy of a USAF navigation manual they teaches how to navigate on a globe. He just laughed it away and posted the same picture. Yes! They are idiots.
A 15 degree per hour drift 😂
'vanes'.
Yep vanes
Would it be possible to 'cage out' one of these, then fly to, say Hawaii from LA, then uncage and watch it re-orientate itself? As the Earth is spherical perhaps the time to re-orientate could be calculated and then observed.
I don't know how some of these Flat Earthlings know how to tie their shoes sometimes...especially the 'angle indicator' knot-heads!!!
If you cage it, it doesn’t work and that won’t be safe. You may want to look at the first attitude indicator video. Wolfie cages and uncages, then records the time to correct
@@BobtheScienceGuySomething to experiment is taking an external independent instrument to Hawaii, cage it in Hawaii, return it to LA, then measure the re-orientation time. To get a good statistical mean and reduce the standard deviation, this experiment must be performed a minimum of ten times. To maintain transparency and integrity, a minimum of five globers and flerfs should observe the experiment. We could call the it “The Next To Last Experiment “. 😉
lol. or you could just get the raw data from the IRS or a FOG you brought with you as a passenger. I've brought scales on aircraft and conducted experiments with the permission of the crew.
@@BobtheScienceGuy I mean one that isn't being used to fly...just one like using for training purposes.
I don't know what IRS or FOG are. (Except the obvious😁)
Do you have videos of these experiments?
@@David-ru3gd Inertial Reference System. Fibre-Optic Gyro.
It’s great to have an explanation of 1 piece of aircraft engineering explained in 15 mins, but you dd realise you’re preaching to the converted don’t you?
I will eagerly wait for Flatzoid to debunk this vid with multiple pauses and ‘you’re wrong Bob’ comments, confirming his genius with all things aerospace/engineering/mechanics etc.
Great demonstration, Bob...
But as always, that will fly way over flerfs' heads, and they will keep parotting their nonsense...
Wasn’t for the flerfs
@@BobtheScienceGuy Probably not, but you can expect some of them, to make all kind of shit up, as usual, to DENY everything...
I was first!, lol 🙂
Indeed you were!
@@BobtheScienceGuy 👍