I think the whole thing is insanely stupid, by trying to disprove that feminist are ugly by posting pictures of attractive women they are basically implying women should be validated based on their looks, which is incredibly anti-feministic. They decided to respond with "no, we are not", instead "it doesn't matter if we are ugly or pretty, that is not make our opinions valid or worth caring about". Which makes me think that a lot of these people, including the men has completely misunderstood the message of feminism.
I really admire Myke for being an adult in a disagreement. You can be unapologetic for your feelings while still acknowledging the off delivery, meanwhile understanding and validating the emotion of those that are opposing you. That kind of insight is severely lacking these days, especially on Twitter. Bravo, sir.
The problem with having those kinds of discussions about social issues on the internet, to me, is that the internet creates a disconnect where empathy is harder. You can interpret things however you want, say FUCK YOU YOU DONT KNOW SHIT and then log off. You know what I mean? It's easy for people to disregard your opinion and refuse to have discussions. Their idea of DISCUSSION is SILENCING anyone from having an opinion. This is people on twitter, tumblr - all kinds of social media. They dig into their trenches, and fire on you venturing into no-man's land (not a dig at feminists) like you're some ANTI- whatever they may be from the opposing side. I used to be that guy on social media fighting every bigot. Wasted so much energy getting mad with people and then I realized how pointless it was. No discussion, just me saying FUCK YOU and then what? I still think what I think. They still think what they think. And then it goes on. I realized that as good as social media can be for raising awareness about social issues, it can be as pointless when used as a tool to facilitate discussion. Which isn't 100% true all the time, you do see great discussions but I don't think twitter is where we settle our difference. Maybe this just seems like rambling but the point I'm trying to make is that had you spoken to her face to face, I bet every dollar in my wallet, she wouldn't have been so hostile. And probably would have come to agreement. It's just the nature of the internet that hinders our ability to properly empathize with each other.
Swamp Roo This is 100% correct. Social Media is set up to have very minor discussions. Not anything in depth that would require critical thinking and emotion gauging.
This is such a good point about social structure today, I'm glad you pointed it out about how it's hard to make a valid point if you aren't a specific type of person.
The issue with the ladies was a complex one. You explained it well; the only thing I disagree with is the notion that if one is the wrong 'messenger' then one should bite their tongue. Of course, certain messengers should not be surprised at blowback, but at some point equality means people of all backgrounds can discuss all topics civilly without having to act submissive to some other group. That was a tough one. You were correct in what you commented to them but you were also gracious when needed. Well done. Cheers, Tom
Funny...this is an old video but I was actually thinking about this earlier today. It still kind of makes me sad that this whole stupid thing transpired. But what are you gonna do? Anyway, thanks for watching!
i saw lily allen twice by myself. once in high school, and the other time like a year and a half or so outta high school haha. i remember a girl saying she didn't think a beastie boys fan would like lily allen cause i had a bboys shirt on.
Thanks for answering man! That Spice Girls story was kinda hilarious sorry. I'm not afraid to admit I'm kind of a big Korn fan (up to like their fifth album) and I'm not ashamed at all. I guess their more or less a guilty pleasure...
I completely agree with what you said to them in Twitter. It needed to be said. They don't understand by responding to feministsareugly that they are perpetuating the male gaze. I'd honestly love to hear what your thoughts on Beyoncé and feminism are. I'm curious if they are similar my views on her being a feminist.
I think at the start, the response of women taking pictures of themselves were pretty funny and worth while, as some people did have the stupid idea that their weren't pretty or '' hot '' feminists. After a while though, at this point, I do agree with what you said. The whole hashtag itself was actually started BY feminists so other feminists would respond with their pictures as if to prove a point. Like I said, at this point I don't think it's needed at all. Anyone who say's '' feminists are ugly '' are most likely just doing it for a reaction. Is it likely that they actually do believe that ? No. It's pretty obvious at this point that it isn't really true. I have seen feminists state the same sort of idea what you had, that their strides to equality has nothing to do with their image and how they look or how people perceive them as being pretty or ugly, and a lot of people do agree, but a lot of people are STILL posting these pics of themselves looking pretty and to me I think it's pretty useless at the moment. It's not really helping anything and i think people are dwelling on an issue that doesn't deserve any attention. But like you, I'm a male and in no way would try to tell feminists that what they're doing and how they're reacting to this certain situation is wrong, because it really isn't my place.
My question is do you still listen and enjoy these "guilty pleasures"? Like do you go out of your way to listen to spice girls or Korn now? Great video. I hope the dead end hip hop crew would answer this question because it would be interesting to hear the songs that they can't believe they like back in the day. I know everyone has some. One of mine that I couldn't believed I liked when I was a kid was limp bizkit. I loved that N 2gther now track with method man.
UnhealthyVegan Spice Girls, yes. Korn, FUCK NO. I seriously only liked them for a couple months. Then the interest wore off and I was like "what the fuck was I thinking?"
I think you're totally right Myke... Women shouldn't be defined by what they look like or how they fit into the "feminist culture." This is just another situation of white privileged feminist being ignorant and unintentionally cruel to lower class, women of color and anyone who doesn't fit a certain ideal. True activism should resist anything that places one person over another
Hey man, I consider myself a feminist + so glad to hear your views on this subject, couldn't agree more! Enjoyed the name drop of Betty Friedan, have you read The Feminine Mystique? It's a great read.
I actually still like Korn, other than that dubstep album... I always hated the Spice Girls, though TLC is cool though, right? Maybe you should talk about Beyonce as not feminist?
I think criticism should be able to come from any mouth regardless if they are a part of the minority group or not. It's a bit hypocritical to hold the idea that: everybody is a human being and we're all part of the same group and should be treated equally and to then slander/demonize a person who criticizes people who do not share his race/sex/nationality/whatever.
Jabba492 I agree with you, but it's hard for people outside of a certain social group to effectively criticize that social group. That's just the way it is. A white person can't effectively criticize the black struggle because they haven't gone through it. They can offer empathetic comments...but that's about it. Same with men when it comes to female struggles.
People who are so outraged by women being judged on their looks that they engage in an unknowingly self-satirising "beauty contest" are beyond stupid and don't deserve your attention.
Hmm, You are being hard on yourself for no reason. You simply aren't an ugly guy. But this debate reminded me of a great album named The Ugly People Vs The Beautiful People by The Czars. Such a big album.
Myke C-Town I misunderstood you then. At 12:05 it sounds as if you're saying that nobody would pick you in a "beauty black male list", but now I guess you meant, they would only pick very famous people.
I think you have a good point about the #FeministsAreUgly thing but I'm guessing a big issue is the fact that what you posted was a tweet rather than a ten minute video or a blog post or something. I don't think you necessarily needed to hold your tongue just because you're a dude but I think if you're going to say something to criticise that then you have to be really clear what you mean, and 140 characters isn't always the best way to make a clear point. If that tweet was all you put out there then I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the people attacking you just didn't know your intention or meaning.
myke what you thibk about slipknot? ..... im guessing you domt like them but that first album and that rick ruvin produced album is great , corey taylor got great vocal
I totally see your point about the wrong response to this ugly hashtag and agree. This is why I can't stand twitter. The world is now a place where everyone is spoiling for a fight. This is why i hide here on TH-cam. hahahahah
I can't stand a lot of feminists, because a lot of them look at so many men attacking them. We naturally as man vs women have a communication differentials but people need to think to speak to each other and teach each other. But i do admit i only know the surface of feminism and what i know i think is stupid, but if there is something deeper then just how men look at women i'd like to hear it.
***** Yes, there is something deeper. And if you want to learn about it you should just Google it. It's really irresponsible to dismiss an entire movement based on a few idiots. Think about if people did that with music...
Myke C-Town I did actually after this video, thank you for making it and increasing my awareness of this... I don't even know what to call it social media trend, granted this has been around for a long time but it's becoming more of a oh look at what i am opposed to actually helping the issue. What i've listened to, read, and talked to people about since this video.. Are a lot not all feminists just complain about the problem and want to be seen but never really saying anything. Sadly... It is done with music, people like Oddisee, Brother Ali, even sage francis are looked away because it's not what the Subculture wants. It may even happen more so in music, because music is so fade oriented an no one wants to hear anything real. Like honestly, i never understood how someone like Pitbull would get more viewers then someone like Brother ali or even Lupe for that matter(granted i know you're not the biggest fan of his). Even Artists like Billy woods doesn't really get any recognition by a lot of amazing stuff he does. All this Social Media Generation is what is trending rather then what is needed to be said.
***** Right. That's what I mean. If it bothers you that people dismiss artists based on very little information, it's not fair to do that to other areas. But I'm glad you looked a bit deeper into it.
Agree 100%. Feminism should be a dialogue, especially when a small group of feminists stoop so low as to cater to shallow idiots who only judge people based on physical beauty.
Myke, maybe you should look into the MGTOW movement (Channels like FeminismLOL, Sandman, JohnTheOther, TurdFlingingMonkey and best of all PaulProteus, Vention, Terrance Popp, LuiMarco and MrDawson38). And find out some of the reasons why men and some women don't like feminism. This could be either mind changing for some or just another opinion/hate movement for others. Thanks and great video as usual.
I think the whole thing is insanely stupid, by trying to disprove that feminist are ugly by posting pictures of attractive women they are basically implying women should be validated based on their looks, which is incredibly anti-feministic. They decided to respond with "no, we are not", instead "it doesn't matter if we are ugly or pretty, that is not make our opinions valid or worth caring about".
Which makes me think that a lot of these people, including the men has completely misunderstood the message of feminism.
Arian hmn I cosign this 100000%. This is precisely my thinking. But I guess I (and clearly you) just "don't get it."
Myke C-Town So basically if you challenge their views, you are instantly wrong. I think there is something wrong there that goes beyond feminism...
nobody likes to be told they're ugly though lol
I really admire Myke for being an adult in a disagreement. You can be unapologetic for your feelings while still acknowledging the off delivery, meanwhile understanding and validating the emotion of those that are opposing you. That kind of insight is severely lacking these days, especially on Twitter. Bravo, sir.
So i know this is a 5year old comment but thoughts on Prequelle and Tobias taking over the band (even more than before)
There's a lot of Myke singing in this episode. I can dig it.
Myke is smitten - when she talks he can't take his eyes off of her
The problem with having those kinds of discussions about social issues on the internet, to me, is that the internet creates a disconnect where empathy is harder. You can interpret things however you want, say FUCK YOU YOU DONT KNOW SHIT and then log off. You know what I mean? It's easy for people to disregard your opinion and refuse to have discussions. Their idea of DISCUSSION is SILENCING anyone from having an opinion. This is people on twitter, tumblr - all kinds of social media. They dig into their trenches, and fire on you venturing into no-man's land (not a dig at feminists) like you're some ANTI- whatever they may be from the opposing side.
I used to be that guy on social media fighting every bigot. Wasted so much energy getting mad with people and then I realized how pointless it was. No discussion, just me saying FUCK YOU and then what? I still think what I think. They still think what they think. And then it goes on. I realized that as good as social media can be for raising awareness about social issues, it can be as pointless when used as a tool to facilitate discussion. Which isn't 100% true all the time, you do see great discussions but I don't think twitter is where we settle our difference.
Maybe this just seems like rambling but the point I'm trying to make is that had you spoken to her face to face, I bet every dollar in my wallet, she wouldn't have been so hostile. And probably would have come to agreement. It's just the nature of the internet that hinders our ability to properly empathize with each other.
Swamp Roo This is 100% correct. Social Media is set up to have very minor discussions. Not anything in depth that would require critical thinking and emotion gauging.
This is such a good point about social structure today, I'm glad you pointed it out about how it's hard to make a valid point if you aren't a specific type of person.
The issue with the ladies was a complex one. You explained it well; the only thing I disagree with is the notion that if one is the wrong 'messenger' then one should bite their tongue. Of course, certain messengers should not be surprised at blowback, but at some point equality means people of all backgrounds can discuss all topics civilly without having to act submissive to some other group.
That was a tough one. You were correct in what you commented to them but you were also gracious when needed. Well done.
Cheers, Tom
High Rant District Yeah. I guess discussing a topic is fine. But that's not the same as criticizing methods. That's the problem.
LMAO that Spice Girls story killed me.
I love your stance on this hashtag thing, as a feminist myself I totally agree with you!
Funny...this is an old video but I was actually thinking about this earlier today. It still kind of makes me sad that this whole stupid thing transpired. But what are you gonna do? Anyway, thanks for watching!
i saw lily allen twice by myself. once in high school, and the other time like a year and a half or so outta high school haha. i remember a girl saying she didn't think a beastie boys fan would like lily allen cause i had a bboys shirt on.
When you said it's been a while in Staind fashion, I was also screaming it out loud
Korn amazing back than and still rocks til this day, but everyone has there own opinions. Really good video.
Thanks for answering man! That Spice Girls story was kinda hilarious sorry. I'm not afraid to admit I'm kind of a big Korn fan (up to like their fifth album) and I'm not ashamed at all. I guess their more or less a guilty pleasure...
That girl in the begining looks exactly like Kitty Pryde omfg
chimchar545 lol I don't think so...
bravetherainbow Ha...me either...
I completely agree with what you said to them in Twitter. It needed to be said. They don't understand by responding to feministsareugly that they are perpetuating the male gaze. I'd honestly love to hear what your thoughts on Beyoncé and feminism are. I'm curious if they are similar my views on her being a feminist.
I think at the start, the response of women taking pictures of themselves were pretty funny and worth while, as some people did have the stupid idea that their weren't pretty or '' hot '' feminists. After a while though, at this point, I do agree with what you said. The whole hashtag itself was actually started BY feminists so other feminists would respond with their pictures as if to prove a point. Like I said, at this point I don't think it's needed at all. Anyone who say's '' feminists are ugly '' are most likely just doing it for a reaction. Is it likely that they actually do believe that ? No. It's pretty obvious at this point that it isn't really true.
I have seen feminists state the same sort of idea what you had, that their strides to equality has nothing to do with their image and how they look or how people perceive them as being pretty or ugly, and a lot of people do agree, but a lot of people are STILL posting these pics of themselves looking pretty and to me I think it's pretty useless at the moment. It's not really helping anything and i think people are dwelling on an issue that doesn't deserve any attention. But like you, I'm a male and in no way would try to tell feminists that what they're doing and how they're reacting to this certain situation is wrong, because it really isn't my place.
7:17 - I was dying laughing at that!
My question is do you still listen and enjoy these "guilty pleasures"? Like do you go out of your way to listen to spice girls or Korn now? Great video. I hope the dead end hip hop crew would answer this question because it would be interesting to hear the songs that they can't believe they like back in the day. I know everyone has some. One of mine that I couldn't believed I liked when I was a kid was limp bizkit. I loved that N 2gther now track with method man.
UnhealthyVegan Spice Girls, yes. Korn, FUCK NO. I seriously only liked them for a couple months. Then the interest wore off and I was like "what the fuck was I thinking?"
I think you're totally right Myke... Women shouldn't be defined by what they look like or how they fit into the "feminist culture." This is just another situation of white privileged feminist being ignorant and unintentionally cruel to lower class, women of color and anyone who doesn't fit a certain ideal. True activism should resist anything that places one person over another
Hey man, I consider myself a feminist + so glad to hear your views on this subject, couldn't agree more! Enjoyed the name drop of Betty Friedan, have you read The Feminine Mystique? It's a great read.
Kieran Payne Years and years ago. It's been a while since I've read any feminist books. Blame Charles Bukowski.
Great video and some interesting topics!
***** Thanks, dude!
i like korn, stained, and no regrets... just because its not meshuggah, no regrets yo
That was the best response to the #FeministsAreUgly was all the way on point. But them getting mad and talking shit and blocking you is very telling.
I actually still like Korn, other than that dubstep album...
I always hated the Spice Girls, though TLC is cool though, right?
Maybe you should talk about Beyonce as not feminist?
I think criticism should be able to come from any mouth regardless if they are a part of the minority group or not. It's a bit hypocritical to hold the idea that: everybody is a human being and we're all part of the same group and should be treated equally and to then slander/demonize a person who criticizes people who do not share his race/sex/nationality/whatever.
Jabba492 I agree with you, but it's hard for people outside of a certain social group to effectively criticize that social group. That's just the way it is. A white person can't effectively criticize the black struggle because they haven't gone through it. They can offer empathetic comments...but that's about it. Same with men when it comes to female struggles.
People who are so outraged by women being judged on their looks that they engage in an unknowingly self-satirising "beauty contest" are beyond stupid and don't deserve your attention.
Lol I still like Staind and old Korn (Did my time era) even now in my Indie rock phase I go back from time to time.
guns should be illegal
Cat Snipes hahaha. Hey man. I don't bump it in the whip but it reminds me of a very hectic angry point in my life.
It's still on my itunes and stuff.
Myles calling himself a pedophile killed me
the staind dude was doing country last i heard his self pity music goes over alot better
Thomas Macie Ugh. Fucking figures.
where do they people post this questions
Dude, without thinking I always say 'It's been a while...' and instantly sing that goddamn song as well.
I wanna get those finger nail things!
I got a Napoleon Dynamite vibe from the intro.
that girls cute af myke, did you get the digits bro?
T Caw after they fucked, he probably let her plug her company. She did it for the clout
She was like 3 or 8?? :D :D lol
Aaron lewis of staind does country now lol
damn, i hate that emotional response... but i feel it too, so i don't really have the right to complain... sigh...
Lol you at a spice girls concert alone, that's hilarious
Good talk
Hmm, You are being hard on yourself for no reason. You simply aren't an ugly guy. But this debate reminded me of a great album named The Ugly People Vs The Beautiful People by The Czars. Such a big album.
Nerozumim Whoa whoa...who said I thought I was ugly??? Haha! Never that.
Myke C-Town I misunderstood you then. At 12:05 it sounds as if you're saying that nobody would pick you in a "beauty black male list", but now I guess you meant, they would only pick very famous people.
I think you have a good point about the #FeministsAreUgly thing but I'm guessing a big issue is the fact that what you posted was a tweet rather than a ten minute video or a blog post or something. I don't think you necessarily needed to hold your tongue just because you're a dude but I think if you're going to say something to criticise that then you have to be really clear what you mean, and 140 characters isn't always the best way to make a clear point. If that tweet was all you put out there then I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the people attacking you just didn't know your intention or meaning.
bravetherainbow You're absolutely right. Twitter is the WORST way of having an intelligent emotion-based discussion.
I feel like every method of teaching and/or reasoning should be open to criticism and conversation. But whatever.
Hey, now...Spice Girls were fun and all about the girl power PMA :) My sisters and I went to a concert, too. No shame, man!
LMAO somewhere around 3 or 8
how bout the Limbomaniacs? lol i liked them in the early 90s haha
You'd definitely be in a few posts of the #BlackMenAren'tUgly hashtag
Before looking into this more, I'm going to guess that this "feminist metal writer" is Kim Kelly.
John Anthony Reardon I can't find the source anywhere. But my guess stands.
myke what you thibk about slipknot? ..... im guessing you domt like them but that first album and that rick ruvin produced album is great , corey taylor got great vocal
I totally see your point about the wrong response to this ugly hashtag and agree. This is why I can't stand twitter. The world is now a place where everyone is spoiling for a fight. This is why i hide here on TH-cam. hahahahah
Your funny man. People are funny.
I can't stand a lot of feminists, because a lot of them look at so many men attacking them. We naturally as man vs women have a communication differentials but people need to think to speak to each other and teach each other. But i do admit i only know the surface of feminism and what i know i think is stupid, but if there is something deeper then just how men look at women i'd like to hear it.
***** Yes, there is something deeper. And if you want to learn about it you should just Google it. It's really irresponsible to dismiss an entire movement based on a few idiots. Think about if people did that with music...
Myke C-Town
I did actually after this video, thank you for making it and increasing my awareness of this... I don't even know what to call it social media trend, granted this has been around for a long time but it's becoming more of a oh look at what i am opposed to actually helping the issue. What i've listened to, read, and talked to people about since this video.. Are a lot not all feminists just complain about the problem and want to be seen but never really saying anything.
Sadly... It is done with music, people like Oddisee, Brother Ali, even sage francis are looked away because it's not what the Subculture wants. It may even happen more so in music, because music is so fade oriented an no one wants to hear anything real. Like honestly, i never understood how someone like Pitbull would get more viewers then someone like Brother ali or even Lupe for that matter(granted i know you're not the biggest fan of his). Even Artists like Billy woods doesn't really get any recognition by a lot of amazing stuff he does.
All this Social Media Generation is what is trending rather then what is needed to be said.
***** Right. That's what I mean. If it bothers you that people dismiss artists based on very little information, it's not fair to do that to other areas. But I'm glad you looked a bit deeper into it.
Staind wasn't Nu-Metal.
Haha.
Hmmm, I wonder if you being a man really is the problem, as long as internalized misogyny is a thing, women aren't safe to disagree either.
LMAO I THINK STAINS PRETTY COOL. Not so much anymore tho cus the lead singer hit on my mom at a show.
Haha I went to see the spice girls aswell dude! Me and my friends thought they were hot!...
3-8 years old. Close range lol
God, I'm so sick of dudes being like "feminism has lost its way, feminists these days are just oversensitive and lame" or whatever.
Agree 100%. Feminism should be a dialogue, especially when a small group of feminists stoop so low as to cater to shallow idiots who only judge people based on physical beauty.
you're right about feminism, i agree 97 percent
Myke, maybe you should look into the MGTOW movement (Channels like FeminismLOL, Sandman, JohnTheOther, TurdFlingingMonkey and best of all PaulProteus, Vention, Terrance Popp, LuiMarco and MrDawson38).
And find out some of the reasons why men and some women don't like feminism.
This could be either mind changing for some or just another opinion/hate movement for others.
Thanks and great video as usual.
cute intro
HAR HAR MAHADEV