CORRECTION - Over the top actually applies to ALL regiment infantry on the battlefield it seems regardless of range. That does make it a bit more interesting to get some boosted movement to places you couldn't easily order. The 2CP makes a bit more sense with that. Thanks to those who pointed it out down in the comments!
@auspextactics could you make a video about BT crusaders and compare them to the intercessors squads in an BT army since bolters got buffed? Thanks for all the hard work mate, love your stuff🙏
I think this could be actually really good. If you sit Ursula Creed in your homefield, and issue the order for 1 CP, every squad in your army makes a 5+ role to generate and additional CP, essentially giving you the strat for (most likely) free.
I think you misinterpreted or misread the Courageous Diversion stratagem. When each enemy unit decides to shoot, if your unit is the closest eligible target, the enemy unit will get -1 to hit regardless of if that unit is targeted or not. It does not say that the enemy would get -1 to hit against that particular unit, just that it will get -1 to hit in general if the unit you used the strat on is the closest eligible target. That's why it's a "diversion" lol
still would only be 1CP for me. it still overwrides all other orders and combat squads will still have their officers closeby, who now do nothing after spending 2CP. would be a cool strat if this stacks with other orders previously given to the units.
*trench whistles heard down the line* In the gloom your positions are suddenly overwhelmed by bayonet rushing kriegsman. It’s a themey strat, I like it!
I'm pretty sure the Over The Top strat allows you to give move move move to all infantry in your list. It doesn't just have to be within order range. Because it says at the bottom of the strat 'regardless of range to your model'. Imo that seems pretty good for 2cp.
@@chikumori5530 Its going to be insanely strong. Creeping barage hitting 1/3 of enemy army, then your Bassilisks hitting whatever else you need to get hit. Some armies like Plague marines are gonna be moving 3" per turn with almost every single thing they have on the board. Even with advancing they will average 4.5". Thats really poor. Be glad they didnt focus on the guns. When they focus on things it pulls units into only being usable in those specific detachments and entirely useless outside of those detachments. Which is something that GW has realised and is begining to avoid doing now in 10th.
Well that won't last long. Creeping Barrage punishes some armies WAAAAY too much, mainly DG where as some don't get affected at all, mainly deep striking ones.
I think you misinterpreted or misread the Courageous Diversion stratagem. When each enemy unit decides to shoot, if your unit is the closest eligible target, the enemy unit will get -1 to hit regardless of if that unit is targeted or not. It does not say that the enemy would get -1 to hit against that particular unit, just that it will get -1 to hit in general if the unit you used the strat on is the closest eligible target
Another thing that seems to have dropped quietly today, if you update the 40k App the Grotmas detachments have been added to it. Finally the ones with allied units are playable without a major headache!
From what you said about it it seemed like you missed a thing about the Courageous Diversion stratagem. It seemed like you thought enemy units only got the -1 to hit if they shoot the unit targeted by the stratagem, but it doesn't say that on the stratagem. If I'm reading it right it's that ALL enemy units that's closest to the targeted unit and can shoot it has -1 to hit, regardless of which of your units they shoot
That is pretty ambiguous, but I see what you mean. If you can run a Bullgryn unit up and hand out -1 to hit to a whole bunch of enemy units that is pretty powerful considering how easy it is to line up (no range requirement). Your melee units are just going to be doing that anyway. Considering the stratagem is named "diversion" I suspect that is actually what it does.
Yeah, that's the 'Courageous' part. You get in the enemy's face when they really want to shoot your tanks or whatever and try to annoy them into shooting you instead to get rid of the -1 to hit. If the experience of my Boomdakka Snazzwagons is anything to go by (they hand out a similar debuff) it could be seriously disruptive.
@@Majere613 It wont work that well overall. if they want to shoot your Unit B and you want to block those shots with your Unit A. Since you declare it at the begining of their shooting phase all they need to do is ensure that they cannot see your unit A with any unit that is going to be shooting your unit B. Considering the sheer amount of terrain that there is atm, thats really not that difficult to achieve. Then to double kick you out of the strategem, they can still leave a few units in sight of Unit A, to force you into still using it on your heavily pushed up unit, else risk losing them. This strategem would go really well into Mirror matches And against necrons due to their low movement you can really limit their options sure, but against things like Aeldari, Tau with high movement and high range, they can quite easily make this strategem not so overly useful for you. Not to say its awful still, just probably wont be worth the 1cp every turn.
@@Majere613 in fairness tho, Tau and Aeldari are mid to lower end WR atm, both hovering around 45 -47% winrate. So the fact it works so well against necrons, will just be goated on its own.
I cant even lie, the thought of using the callous sacrifice with a squad of Catachan really does make me laugh. I can just picture the unit and whoever they're in combat with all going up in flames, literally
Nah, 2 malleus rocket launchers, 2 bombast field guns, 2 heavy lascannons, and one of each Krieg artillery gun should be just fine (i am obsessed with artillery)
@adamklasa7270 I am still not convinced non-tank-artillery witout indirect fire is very good, as they all are very fragile and have to leave safe cover to be able to shoot. For big guns without indirect fire, we have tanks!
Recon Element Masters of Camouflage combined with the new Cadia Stands special rule will make some interesting objective campers. 25 Cadian unit with 3+ and Courageous Diversion will be pretty nasty to shift (unless in melee obviously). While I do like the idea of the off-board artillery being called in to support a major infantry push, I think the 12" range will kill it on today's boards. You'll have one turn of benefits against an opponent that's able to think and breathe at the same time, and you give up Born Soldiers for that. IMHO not worth it unless you're doing narrative battles or a VERY themed list.
The recon element rule seems like if you use the armour order, you could have regular 6 ppm guards with 3+ against AP-1! Do that on a squad with feel no pain and a medipak and it isn't going anywhere.
@@CatroiOz Because its a 5+ to be slowed and they cant slow you down if you get close to them. It has counterplay. and I would much rather it be like this instead of all my models being killed without being able to do anything to stop it.
@@CatroiOz nah this detachment is great it is swingy but you can counter it with deep strike, speed and unit priority and more importantly it is super interactive to play and play against which was a problem with indirect
@@CatroiOz It only effects enemies more than 12 inches away from EVERY guard unit, and tables are the size of teacups so unless the guard player has half his army in reserve and the other half of it deployed on the board edge you're going to be within 12 inches.
Except those of us who actually own Artillerly guns now have hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of plastic thats STILL fucking useless, they made an artillery detachment in which artillery is still dogshit useless. Fucking furious over here that I just don't get to play the army I want to play because Tournament level players winge and scream like angry babies about indirect.
Haven't seen it mentioned yet, and whilst it may be a rather niche use, because the Siege Regiment Smoke Shells rule says unit from 'army', that means you can give stealth to an allied Knight or Inquisitorial unit, right? Pretty cool if so.
The recon detachment looks fun but I suspect it will have particularly bad match ups against the Tau and WE while GSC and DE might be really interesting but messy.
As a T'au player I'm miffed that the snot-nosed crayon eaters stole OUR Stealth Detachment, but with markerlights I can effectively ignore their entire detachment rule so payback makes me happy.
Sounds like the Siege Regiment is meant for a guard army that is UNDER siege itself and defending its position. Castle up on the far side of the table and then make the enemy pay as they charge at you. Of course, given the objective based nature of most games, this is not really going to be a viable tactic outside of narrative play unless you can get your opponent to suicide their army as they march across the table and then you mop off after. Still, this detachment seems very situational. The scout detachment seems much more in line with the style of play most games involve. Looking forward to seeing how the Mech and Tank detachments play out (as that is the style of guard I play).
Disagree, Siege Regiment is perfect for aggressive play. Slowing a good chunk of the enemy army while speeding up your own blobs is great for taking objectives, and shooting into melee works for holding them. Only major downside is over the top not stacking with orders
Let’s not forget the Courageous Diversion could also cause the enemies closest to your unit to get a -1 to hit when targeting ANY of your units not just the courageous one.
Seems like Siege Regiment detachment is one that might appear to be useful on paper but in practice is going to be the least useful in general. None of the benefits actually can inflict damage. Off board artillery fire that only slows your opponent down or removes cover or what not is fun but is not really impressive. The mine field strat is neat. An alternative to overwatch.
The potential utility is really good though. Denying your opponent movement might be the difference between them getting on an objective point, or completing a charge, or getting wholly within range of a specific zone to score a secondary objective. Denying an enemy cover is also really strong as it technically gives you an additional point of AP when shooting, which is going to really hurt the effectiveness of light infantry/vehicles. Smoke is pretty situational, but it could allow you to move transports or exposed infantry up without fear of them getting absolutely dunked on. To be honest, I would prefer a detachment which is good in specific situations to one which is a must pick and you're handicapping yourself for not picking it.
I'm wondering why the Recon Element detachment rule specifies Regiment or Walker, given that both IG Walkers (both sentinel variants) are also Regiment units. Perhaps we're getting a new type of Sentinel in the future?
I hoped for an infantry detachment i seem to be getting a few, off course i will wait for the full codex but at first glance I'm really happy about this! I agree it's probably sensible that the artillery one is mostly of table but i still hope there are some stratagem or something to help.
Guard player since the late 80's. I'm glad they released the previews so I could save myself 230 bucks on the FOMO box. Man, I'm a mark for this stuff and I'm really disappointed. More options not fewer please.
Fair point. None of the previewed detachments really fit my play style thus far AND I'm still reeling from the weird datasheet decisions from yesterdays preview. I'm just still nervous about stuff getting legended and making my army unplayable despite having a pretty extensive collection.
Baneblade variant supported by tanks and MSU and artillery. They have legended some of my units at index launch and I don't prefer "treat this as this" if I can avoid it. We tend towards smaller tables so the 12" thing is gonna make games a tough go. 230 is a lot for primarily the codex and cards...
Much as I think artillery pieces make for cool models, this seems a much better way to do indirect. Hopefully it'll work, and if so, become a template for indirect in the game more broadly.
Id love to see some more units with the whole "you can shoot into their mele" throughout the whole game to be fair. Not on everything tho, just make an "expendable" tag that lets you do it. Orcs should be able to shoot into gretchin. Nurgle into Nurglings. Guard into some Cadians (sorry) Sisters into some Pentinent units. So on and so forth. Not for every army of course, and not for every single battleline unit, just some. Would probably make the mele / range balence a bit better. They do this in AOS already, and its really improved game balence overall, they should probably consider it in 40k again. Plus its not like we havent had it before, most editions before 7th allowed you to do exactly this.
The detachment rule says "While such a model has the Benefit of Cover" for the extra save and the Ignores Cover rule says "the target cannot have the Benefit of Cover," so I would say you don't get the additional save.
@YoshiSpendiff yeah that makes sense too. It's just the way cover is worded is that you only can get it once, and I'm not 100% sure that the extra save is considered as a cover save because they already have it. It might end up being FAQ'd just for clarity if anything.
so on the + side: so far all the regiments look fluffy and fun to play with and against. on the - side, the stratagems for guard continue to be mid. for siege regiment: over the top may give all units movex3 but it still doesn't stack with other officer orders and combat squads tend to have officers nearby already, who now do nothing for a turn. so only usefull if you only use like 1 officer but still want to order your army or maybe with lots of min sized units. should be 1CP, order only the units in range but in return stacks with other orders already issured. collous sacrifice is fluffy and cool but in the end a worse "fall back+shoot/charge" that other armies get for the same cost. should at least either deal MV instead of model slain or give an advantage for shooting the models in combat to represent the sacrificial unit activly distracting their target mindfield reads like an inverse tankshock. not sure how good it is but seems weak. shoul be somehow aglined to the own unit instead of the charging units. maybe when charged it only triggers vs one enemy but you roll for everyone of your model, as they do place the mines for recon: coragous diversion seems nice at first until you remember, that many important units have a 6+++ already, so it's still a smokescreen for infantry but only if it's the closest target and you need to activate it at the start of shooting and not when targeted. can still be usefull scramble field is something I realy don't like for some reason. depending on the rest of strats, creed can be used to screen the entire backfield with one inf squad for free and that's nice. still doesn't block rapid ingress. finaly scouting outriders is very niece and it seems the true power comes from a strange interaction to redeploy lord solar and his buddies. still most seem to have potential but they do feel a bit weak so far. nothing where I would think to use anyone each round like other armies tend to have. smokescreen, tankshock and grenade are still the best guard strats
And also scion commanders with the command rod. Assuming that the rod still allows them to receive a second order, and also assuming that the scions were on the table in the command phase.
Start with tanks, they are fun strong and easy to work with. Guard were my first army and can be intimidating but once you get it down you will appreciate the flexibility and fun.
The only difference between the infantry squads is the ability and what special weapons you have (catachan scout 2 flamers, cadian sticky objectives 2 special weapons, krieg shoot better when wounded 3 special weapons The main complexity is orders but for the most part you could get away with issuing move move move(+2in movement) to units that want to move up the board, and either take aim(+1 ballistic skill) or first rank fire second rank fire(more shots for rapid fire weapons) on squads that you want killing things
I feel it's relatively simple. In terms of mechanics, Cadians are defensive infantry, Catachans are offensive, and Krieg are support/mixed purpose. In terms of flavor though, get what you like best. One word of warning is that the army rule can be a bit daunting, especially if you have a lot of officers on the field. I personally bought some order markers off of Etsy, but there are less expensive ways to remember which unit is affected by which order.
Oh well, the indirect works as well as it can in current way the game is meant to be played by GW, so the Creeping Barrage kinda makes sense though beign waaay too unbalanced nerfing some to the ground and not affecting some at all. Tbh 40k scale makes it really hard to justify on board artillery with the exception of mortars, that can be used within the effective rifle range with little chance of scattering back to your own troops, but artillery, MRLs or, godforbid, flyers dropping bombs....danger REALLY close w/out chance to scatter nor spotting required. Just lose the big guns and add in some templates with scatter and your way more sensible.
I always thought that astra militarum is a very cool fraction, but never considered playing it, because they didn't have WWI and WWII artillery tactics (like the creeping barrage) as a rule... guess I know wich army I will start in 2025 😂
"Multiple instances of the Benefit of Cover are not cumulative - a model cannot benefit from this rule more than once at any one time."... How is it possible that Vet Guard would run save 3+ in cover. You can not stack BoCs.
Are you referring to the Recon Element detachment? Because the other +1 save is a bonus from the detachment rule, which is NOT a bonus from BoC. It clearly reads "While such a model has the benefit of cover for any other reason (e.g. because it is wholly within a Ruin), *improve the Save characteristic of models in that unit by 1 (to a maximum of 3+)"
Newbie here, thinking I finally figured out what army to start with (Admech), but the Death Korps are making me change my mind... again. The Death Korps are S Tier looks wise.
@Chumsgeyser JOIN US FOR THE EMPEROR! more seriously guard are awesome if you love cheap strong expendeble infantry and good strong tanks and artillery then guard is a perfect choice!
This game should be called FOMO 40K. If I start an army, deciding latter I'd rather try a different army, no worries I'll just try to scrap up another grand and weeks of paint time. It's all to Game Workshop's credit. The models, artwork and lore of 40k is flat out amazing. It's just not easy to get started.
I got a call from the FLGS. They say my Space Marine Company Heroes are here. I did not order Space Marine Company Heroes. I did order the made to order Space Marine Heroes terminator Company something or other. So exciting. We shall see what the situation actually is.
Considering that current standard tables are only 8 inches wide and 6 inches deep a power that only effects things that are 12 inches away from EVERY unit in your army seems DOA.
@@torgranael There's this thing called hyperbole, aka exaggeration for effect. You make an exaggerated statement that is obvious isn't true to illustrate a concept by pretending that the thing about the concept you want to illustrate is more severe than it really is. Moving on, 60x44. If you remove the deployment zones, the no-man's land is only 24 x 20. A standard scout move reduces that to 18x14, etc. The point is as long as you are deploying at or near the edge of your deployment zone, any ability that requires more than 12 inches of space will only work for the first turn of the battle and only if you go second. And if the opponent stays in the back of their deployment zone and refuses to come forward, which might extend the effect to half of 2 or maybe even 3 turns, they cede all of the objectives to you so you essentially automatically win.
@jimmydesouza4375it will work regardless of who goes first, the effect is applied at the start of the round, before any of the players turns. Also, it doesn't need to work past the second round, delaying a melee or scoring unit from doing their purpose for one round massively reduces their value. Think of a melee unit, which realistically aims to get into melee by the second turn, now being denied until turn three. That unit just spent half the game doing nothing. Likewise a scoring unit getting delayed by a turn may find that the place they wanted to reach is now already taken by the guard. When a game is normally decided by round three, having one third of your army delayed by one turn is a massive swing in tempo.
The streamlining of the regiments that disqualifies anything that isn’t catachans, cadians and Kreigsmen is the last straw. I’m going to one page rules.
@@JackDespero mostly because of the leaks, usually they leak the things that are interesting to build up hype, while keep the more boring and less worked on one's in the background, and seeing how competitive scenes go, they tend to focus more on movement shenanigans, hence my speculation of tank detachment being the boring one
Not aimed at auspex tactics. The rules literally say you can not improve save below 3+. The amount of people thinking it can go to a 2+, or people who are whinging it will, are everything wrong with 40k. GW will have to release an errata for these plebs. Someone was even whinging about some of this being better than marines. How speshul do some people have to be? Seriously. What makes laugh is now guard actually get some of that premium gotcha cheese, people are crying about it 😂.
Could be running 3 basilisks with the first bombing option to cover whatever wasn't hit by the initial bombing, in order to utterly blue ball khorne enjoyers. Parry this you filthy casual. (just in case, please do not take this joke personally)
CORRECTION - Over the top actually applies to ALL regiment infantry on the battlefield it seems regardless of range. That does make it a bit more interesting to get some boosted movement to places you couldn't easily order. The 2CP makes a bit more sense with that. Thanks to those who pointed it out down in the comments!
Glad to see this correction in the chat was actually going to post about but good to see you caught it quickly
@auspextactics could you make a video about BT crusaders and compare them to the intercessors squads in an BT army since bolters got buffed?
Thanks for all the hard work mate, love your stuff🙏
@@DaClaptain Perhaps the dumbest, most cringe take of 2025 yet. Congratulations!
I think this could be actually really good. If you sit Ursula Creed in your homefield, and issue the order for 1 CP, every squad in your army makes a 5+ role to generate and additional CP, essentially giving you the strat for (most likely) free.
I think you misinterpreted or misread the Courageous Diversion stratagem. When each enemy unit decides to shoot, if your unit is the closest eligible target, the enemy unit will get -1 to hit regardless of if that unit is targeted or not. It does not say that the enemy would get -1 to hit against that particular unit, just that it will get -1 to hit in general if the unit you used the strat on is the closest eligible target.
That's why it's a "diversion" lol
Slight correction, over the top explicitly states regardless of order range. So pop the Strat and give move move move to your entire infantry wing
Thanks, misread that slightly - I'll post a pinned correction above! That does make the 2CP cost a bit more understandable.
still would only be 1CP for me. it still overwrides all other orders and combat squads will still have their officers closeby, who now do nothing after spending 2CP. would be a cool strat if this stacks with other orders previously given to the units.
*trench whistles heard down the line*
In the gloom your positions are suddenly overwhelmed by bayonet rushing kriegsman. It’s a themey strat, I like it!
That would not be cool that would be overpowered as all hell. @@calronkeltaran493
@@tripledot3Overall seems like a themey detachment. I love it
I'm pretty sure the Over The Top strat allows you to give move move move to all infantry in your list. It doesn't just have to be within order range. Because it says at the bottom of the strat 'regardless of range to your model'. Imo that seems pretty good for 2cp.
Thanks, misread that slightly - I'll post a pinned correction above! That does make the 2CP cost a bit more understandable.
Artillery detachment will be nerfed the moment you finish painting because GW kills indirect instantly
They didn't even focus it on the guns you can bring, which is pretty sad.
@@chikumori5530it’s a godsend. Laziest way to play the game
@@chikumori5530 Its going to be insanely strong. Creeping barage hitting 1/3 of enemy army, then your Bassilisks hitting whatever else you need to get hit.
Some armies like Plague marines are gonna be moving 3" per turn with almost every single thing they have on the board. Even with advancing they will average 4.5". Thats really poor.
Be glad they didnt focus on the guns. When they focus on things it pulls units into only being usable in those specific detachments and entirely useless outside of those detachments. Which is something that GW has realised and is begining to avoid doing now in 10th.
Well that won't last long.
Creeping Barrage punishes some armies WAAAAY too much, mainly DG where as some don't get affected at all, mainly deep striking ones.
I think you misinterpreted or misread the Courageous Diversion stratagem. When each enemy unit decides to shoot, if your unit is the closest eligible target, the enemy unit will get -1 to hit regardless of if that unit is targeted or not.
It does not say that the enemy would get -1 to hit against that particular unit, just that it will get -1 to hit in general if the unit you used the strat on is the closest eligible target
Another thing that seems to have dropped quietly today, if you update the 40k App the Grotmas detachments have been added to it. Finally the ones with allied units are playable without a major headache!
Finally!
From what you said about it it seemed like you missed a thing about the Courageous Diversion stratagem. It seemed like you thought enemy units only got the -1 to hit if they shoot the unit targeted by the stratagem, but it doesn't say that on the stratagem. If I'm reading it right it's that ALL enemy units that's closest to the targeted unit and can shoot it has -1 to hit, regardless of which of your units they shoot
That is pretty ambiguous, but I see what you mean.
If you can run a Bullgryn unit up and hand out -1 to hit to a whole bunch of enemy units that is pretty powerful considering how easy it is to line up (no range requirement). Your melee units are just going to be doing that anyway.
Considering the stratagem is named "diversion" I suspect that is actually what it does.
Yeah, that's the 'Courageous' part. You get in the enemy's face when they really want to shoot your tanks or whatever and try to annoy them into shooting you instead to get rid of the -1 to hit. If the experience of my Boomdakka Snazzwagons is anything to go by (they hand out a similar debuff) it could be seriously disruptive.
@@YoshiSpendiffIt takes a careful read, but once you break it down I feel confident that it works the way he just described it.
@@Majere613 It wont work that well overall. if they want to shoot your Unit B and you want to block those shots with your Unit A. Since you declare it at the begining of their shooting phase all they need to do is ensure that they cannot see your unit A with any unit that is going to be shooting your unit B. Considering the sheer amount of terrain that there is atm, thats really not that difficult to achieve.
Then to double kick you out of the strategem, they can still leave a few units in sight of Unit A, to force you into still using it on your heavily pushed up unit, else risk losing them.
This strategem would go really well into Mirror matches And against necrons due to their low movement you can really limit their options sure, but against things like Aeldari, Tau with high movement and high range, they can quite easily make this strategem not so overly useful for you.
Not to say its awful still, just probably wont be worth the 1cp every turn.
@@Majere613 in fairness tho, Tau and Aeldari are mid to lower end WR atm, both hovering around 45 -47% winrate.
So the fact it works so well against necrons, will just be goated on its own.
I cant even lie, the thought of using the callous sacrifice with a squad of Catachan really does make me laugh. I can just picture the unit and whoever they're in combat with all going up in flames, literally
And '''accidentally''' immolating the Commissar too
Sinfantry at 12:00….
…I need this to come back when Emperor’s Children battle line units are unveiled.
With the artillery detachment, how does one NOT run 3 basilisks to stay in character?!?!
I'll be running the new Krieg siege guns.
Nah, 2 malleus rocket launchers, 2 bombast field guns, 2 heavy lascannons, and one of each Krieg artillery gun should be just fine (i am obsessed with artillery)
@adamklasa7270 I am still not convinced non-tank-artillery witout indirect fire is very good, as they all are very fragile and have to leave safe cover to be able to shoot.
For big guns without indirect fire, we have tanks!
@@Silverdragon83X rule of cool. (besides that I have 2 rogal dorns and Knight Errant in my list so I've got tanks too)
Plus 3 earthshakers
Recon Element Masters of Camouflage combined with the new Cadia Stands special rule will make some interesting objective campers. 25 Cadian unit with 3+ and Courageous Diversion will be pretty nasty to shift (unless in melee obviously). While I do like the idea of the off-board artillery being called in to support a major infantry push, I think the 12" range will kill it on today's boards. You'll have one turn of benefits against an opponent that's able to think and breathe at the same time, and you give up Born Soldiers for that. IMHO not worth it unless you're doing narrative battles or a VERY themed list.
The recon element rule seems like if you use the armour order, you could have regular 6 ppm guards with 3+ against AP-1! Do that on a squad with feel no pain and a medipak and it isn't going anywhere.
Thank god they went this way for the artillery detachment. It looks fun and fluffy and not total aids to play against!
Not total aids ? Are you crazy ? This is a direct unbeatable counter to melee armies and mega swingy to boot
@@CatroiOz Because its a 5+ to be slowed and they cant slow you down if you get close to them. It has counterplay. and I would much rather it be like this instead of all my models being killed without being able to do anything to stop it.
@@CatroiOz nah this detachment is great it is swingy but you can counter it with deep strike, speed and unit priority and more importantly it is super interactive to play and play against which was a problem with indirect
@@CatroiOz It only effects enemies more than 12 inches away from EVERY guard unit, and tables are the size of teacups so unless the guard player has half his army in reserve and the other half of it deployed on the board edge you're going to be within 12 inches.
Except those of us who actually own Artillerly guns now have hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of plastic thats STILL fucking useless, they made an artillery detachment in which artillery is still dogshit useless.
Fucking furious over here that I just don't get to play the army I want to play because Tournament level players winge and scream like angry babies about indirect.
The Recon rule might be hinting that sentinels lose the regiment keyword
So we can play as Blue Moon's Grit with this detachmet?
Ayo! Advance Wars player spotted.
@Kingofdragons117 Love advance wars. Now, if only Battlion wars made a comeback
That masculine urge to start a krieg army around the artillery and mass infantry
In the courageous diversion strat, you put Sinfantry, and I laughed my ass off. I doubt it was intentional, but it is still fantastic.
Damet!
How can I not run the stealth detachment with 120 catachans, 9 heavy weapon squads with all lascannons and a few cavalery/sentinels...
Haven't seen it mentioned yet, and whilst it may be a rather niche use, because the Siege Regiment Smoke Shells rule says unit from 'army', that means you can give stealth to an allied Knight or Inquisitorial unit, right? Pretty cool if so.
Glad to see they’re not focusing on the artillery itself and instead bake it into the detachment rule.
The recon detachment looks fun but I suspect it will have particularly bad match ups against the Tau and WE while GSC and DE might be really interesting but messy.
As a T'au player I'm miffed that the snot-nosed crayon eaters stole OUR Stealth Detachment, but with markerlights I can effectively ignore their entire detachment rule so payback makes me happy.
My Krieg force I’m already converting sounds ready for the Recon Detachment. Looks fun and flavorful, that’s rare!
Sounds like the Siege Regiment is meant for a guard army that is UNDER siege itself and defending its position. Castle up on the far side of the table and then make the enemy pay as they charge at you. Of course, given the objective based nature of most games, this is not really going to be a viable tactic outside of narrative play unless you can get your opponent to suicide their army as they march across the table and then you mop off after. Still, this detachment seems very situational. The scout detachment seems much more in line with the style of play most games involve. Looking forward to seeing how the Mech and Tank detachments play out (as that is the style of guard I play).
Disagree, Siege Regiment is perfect for aggressive play. Slowing a good chunk of the enemy army while speeding up your own blobs is great for taking objectives, and shooting into melee works for holding them.
Only major downside is over the top not stacking with orders
Let’s not forget the Courageous Diversion could also cause the enemies closest to your unit to get a -1 to hit when targeting ANY of your units not just the courageous one.
I wanted Guard to get artillery like Admech have, but this is pretty lame. They should have gotten an option to do mortals like Mech has.
Just play admech then you virgin lmao
Seems like Siege Regiment detachment is one that might appear to be useful on paper but in practice is going to be the least useful in general. None of the benefits actually can inflict damage. Off board artillery fire that only slows your opponent down or removes cover or what not is fun but is not really impressive.
The mine field strat is neat. An alternative to overwatch.
The potential utility is really good though. Denying your opponent movement might be the difference between them getting on an objective point, or completing a charge, or getting wholly within range of a specific zone to score a secondary objective. Denying an enemy cover is also really strong as it technically gives you an additional point of AP when shooting, which is going to really hurt the effectiveness of light infantry/vehicles. Smoke is pretty situational, but it could allow you to move transports or exposed infantry up without fear of them getting absolutely dunked on.
To be honest, I would prefer a detachment which is good in specific situations to one which is a must pick and you're handicapping yourself for not picking it.
Really sad they didn't focus it on the artillery we could actually take. What a let down.
Creeping barrage kills most death guards units movement.
I'm wondering why the Recon Element detachment rule specifies Regiment or Walker, given that both IG Walkers (both sentinel variants) are also Regiment units. Perhaps we're getting a new type of Sentinel in the future?
I hoped for an infantry detachment i seem to be getting a few, off course i will wait for the full codex but at first glance I'm really happy about this!
I agree it's probably sensible that the artillery one is mostly of table but i still hope there are some stratagem or something to help.
Guard player since the late 80's. I'm glad they released the previews so I could save myself 230 bucks on the FOMO box. Man, I'm a mark for this stuff and I'm really disappointed. More options not fewer please.
How is it fewer options? We are going from 1 detachment to 5
Fair point. None of the previewed detachments really fit my play style thus far AND I'm still reeling from the weird datasheet decisions from yesterdays preview. I'm just still nervous about stuff getting legended and making my army unplayable despite having a pretty extensive collection.
So what's ur play style that isn't represented currently or showcased/teased??
Baneblade variant supported by tanks and MSU and artillery. They have legended some of my units at index launch and I don't prefer "treat this as this" if I can avoid it. We tend towards smaller tables so the 12" thing is gonna make games a tough go. 230 is a lot for primarily the codex and cards...
@@danielmoschkau8467you can wait for the codex to come out. You don’t have to buy this codex if you don’t want it
Much as I think artillery pieces make for cool models, this seems a much better way to do indirect. Hopefully it'll work, and if so, become a template for indirect in the game more broadly.
Id love to see some more units with the whole "you can shoot into their mele" throughout the whole game to be fair.
Not on everything tho, just make an "expendable" tag that lets you do it.
Orcs should be able to shoot into gretchin.
Nurgle into Nurglings.
Guard into some Cadians (sorry)
Sisters into some Pentinent units.
So on and so forth.
Not for every army of course, and not for every single battleline unit, just some.
Would probably make the mele / range balence a bit better.
They do this in AOS already, and its really improved game balence overall, they should probably consider it in 40k again.
Plus its not like we havent had it before, most editions before 7th allowed you to do exactly this.
Wait
So, they're bringing back off-board artillery?
I really hope the Hammer of the Emporer one with the tanks allows tank commanders of both flavors to can issue more than 1 order...
Or orders to superheavy
@jasongarfitt1147 both? Both would be great. Maybe set them up so they could do 2 orders to tanks of the same class or 1 to titanic tanks?
For Recon Element, if weapons ignore cover, would they still improve their save by 1 instead of 2 when in ruins? I assume so, but I could be wrong.
The detachment rule says "While such a model has the Benefit of Cover" for the extra save and the Ignores Cover rule says "the target cannot have the Benefit of Cover," so I would say you don't get the additional save.
@YoshiSpendiff yeah that makes sense too. It's just the way cover is worded is that you only can get it once, and I'm not 100% sure that the extra save is considered as a cover save because they already have it. It might end up being FAQ'd just for clarity if anything.
so on the + side: so far all the regiments look fluffy and fun to play with and against. on the - side, the stratagems for guard continue to be mid.
for siege regiment:
over the top may give all units movex3 but it still doesn't stack with other officer orders and combat squads tend to have officers nearby already, who now do nothing for a turn. so only usefull if you only use like 1 officer but still want to order your army or maybe with lots of min sized units. should be 1CP, order only the units in range but in return stacks with other orders already issured.
collous sacrifice is fluffy and cool but in the end a worse "fall back+shoot/charge" that other armies get for the same cost. should at least either deal MV instead of model slain or give an advantage for shooting the models in combat to represent the sacrificial unit activly distracting their target
mindfield reads like an inverse tankshock. not sure how good it is but seems weak. shoul be somehow aglined to the own unit instead of the charging units. maybe when charged it only triggers vs one enemy but you roll for everyone of your model, as they do place the mines
for recon:
coragous diversion seems nice at first until you remember, that many important units have a 6+++ already, so it's still a smokescreen for infantry but only if it's the closest target and you need to activate it at the start of shooting and not when targeted. can still be usefull
scramble field is something I realy don't like for some reason. depending on the rest of strats, creed can be used to screen the entire backfield with one inf squad for free and that's nice. still doesn't block rapid ingress.
finaly scouting outriders is very niece and it seems the true power comes from a strange interaction to redeploy lord solar and his buddies.
still most seem to have potential but they do feel a bit weak so far. nothing where I would think to use anyone each round like other armies tend to have. smokescreen, tankshock and grenade are still the best guard strats
Yeah I got really excited by Over the top before realizing it counts as your only order
If Creeping Barrage stacks with the Basilisk ability then, hell yeah.
Man u didn't waste any time, thanks for the timely video❤
GW: "Indirect is difficult to balance so we rather limit its potency."
Also GW: *Off the board artillery*
Over the top would work nicely with Kasrkin
And also scion commanders with the command rod.
Assuming that the rod still allows them to receive a second order, and also assuming that the scions were on the table in the command phase.
When are the death guard and space wolves codex coming out?
Who knows. It hasn’t been talked about. It’s guard time. Wait your turn
Interesting stuff, thanks!
Ive always wanted to play guard, but it seems so complicated with the infantry squads. The new rules aren't making it easier. Any tips?
Start with tanks, they are fun strong and easy to work with. Guard were my first army and can be intimidating but once you get it down you will appreciate the flexibility and fun.
The only difference between the infantry squads is the ability and what special weapons you have (catachan scout 2 flamers, cadian sticky objectives 2 special weapons, krieg shoot better when wounded 3 special weapons
The main complexity is orders but for the most part you could get away with issuing move move move(+2in movement) to units that want to move up the board, and either take aim(+1 ballistic skill) or first rank fire second rank fire(more shots for rapid fire weapons) on squads that you want killing things
I feel it's relatively simple. In terms of mechanics, Cadians are defensive infantry, Catachans are offensive, and Krieg are support/mixed purpose. In terms of flavor though, get what you like best.
One word of warning is that the army rule can be a bit daunting, especially if you have a lot of officers on the field. I personally bought some order markers off of Etsy, but there are less expensive ways to remember which unit is affected by which order.
It's really not complicated at all.
@@jamesloder8652helps a lot ty 👍
Creeping Barrage and three Basilisks would be painful to fight against. Assuming Basilisks keep their special rules.
Would it stack?
Guard are back on the menu!
Supporting Imperial Knights or Titans with smoke screens!
They most likely still have to have the keywords
Oh well, the indirect works as well as it can in current way the game is meant to be played by GW, so the Creeping Barrage kinda makes sense though beign waaay too unbalanced nerfing some to the ground and not affecting some at all.
Tbh 40k scale makes it really hard to justify on board artillery with the exception of mortars, that can be used within the effective rifle range with little chance of scattering back to your own troops, but artillery, MRLs or, godforbid, flyers dropping bombs....danger REALLY close w/out chance to scatter nor spotting required.
Just lose the big guns and add in some templates with scatter and your way more sensible.
Still say Recon is Catachan themed not Tanith.
Siege regiment does look pretty fun but my guess is its non-interactivity will attract some groans and maybe some nerfs.
Tbf, being affected on a 5+ isn't too bad.
I always thought that astra militarum is a very cool fraction, but never considered playing it, because they didn't have WWI and WWII artillery tactics (like the creeping barrage) as a rule... guess I know wich army I will start in 2025 😂
Can Masters of Camouflage+Benefits of Cover +Take Cover get my Guardsman to a 2+ save?
Take cover says it can't improve it to better then a 3+ save
@phantomrokket4021 missed that. Thanks!
Catachan meta is here
"Multiple instances of the Benefit of Cover are not cumulative - a model cannot benefit from this rule more than once at any one time."... How is it possible that Vet Guard would run save 3+ in cover. You can not stack BoCs.
Are you referring to the Recon Element detachment?
Because the other +1 save is a bonus from the detachment rule, which is NOT a bonus from BoC. It clearly reads "While such a model has the benefit of cover for any other reason (e.g. because it is wholly within a Ruin), *improve the Save characteristic of models in that unit by 1 (to a maximum of 3+)"
I dont know much about these new detachments but I know they should have made Catachans over Kreig
Newbie here, thinking I finally figured out what army to start with (Admech), but the Death Korps are making me change my mind... again. The Death Korps are S Tier looks wise.
We've all been like that at some point :)
@Chumsgeyser JOIN US FOR THE EMPEROR! more seriously guard are awesome if you love cheap strong expendeble infantry and good strong tanks and artillery then guard is a perfect choice!
This game should be called FOMO 40K. If I start an army, deciding latter I'd rather try a different army, no worries I'll just try to scrap up another grand and weeks of paint time. It's all to Game Workshop's credit. The models, artwork and lore of 40k is flat out amazing. It's just not easy to get started.
Creeping barrage sounds absolutely MISERABLE, jesus christ
Having to roll a 5+ for every single unit outside of 12” sounds like a massive time sink
Foot death guard makes weird sad gurgles.
You can use Strategic reserves or Mortarian.
2 inch move deathguard terminators 🫠
You can already do it with the Basilisk and it's -very- funny. Genuinely cripples units like DW Knights.
Just four? How lame.
There are 5. 6 if you count the Grotsmas one which should still work
Last time i was this early, the Emperor was still leading the grate crusade
You know what else is massive?
I got a call from the FLGS. They say my Space Marine Company Heroes are here. I did not order Space Marine Company Heroes. I did order the made to order Space Marine Heroes terminator Company something or other.
So exciting. We shall see what the situation actually is.
Nobody actually cares
Im so excited for this codex
They keep talking about the Rogal Dorn TC. I wonder if they are changing the TC to be a dorn only thing?
Considering that current standard tables are only 8 inches wide and 6 inches deep a power that only effects things that are 12 inches away from EVERY unit in your army seems DOA.
What kind of tables are you playing on, that the entire battlefield is smaller than a baneblade? Standard tables are 60"x44".
@@torgranael There's this thing called hyperbole, aka exaggeration for effect. You make an exaggerated statement that is obvious isn't true to illustrate a concept by pretending that the thing about the concept you want to illustrate is more severe than it really is.
Moving on, 60x44. If you remove the deployment zones, the no-man's land is only 24 x 20. A standard scout move reduces that to 18x14, etc.
The point is as long as you are deploying at or near the edge of your deployment zone, any ability that requires more than 12 inches of space will only work for the first turn of the battle and only if you go second.
And if the opponent stays in the back of their deployment zone and refuses to come forward, which might extend the effect to half of 2 or maybe even 3 turns, they cede all of the objectives to you so you essentially automatically win.
@jimmydesouza4375it will work regardless of who goes first, the effect is applied at the start of the round, before any of the players turns. Also, it doesn't need to work past the second round, delaying a melee or scoring unit from doing their purpose for one round massively reduces their value. Think of a melee unit, which realistically aims to get into melee by the second turn, now being denied until turn three. That unit just spent half the game doing nothing. Likewise a scoring unit getting delayed by a turn may find that the place they wanted to reach is now already taken by the guard.
When a game is normally decided by round three, having one third of your army delayed by one turn is a massive swing in tempo.
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The streamlining of the regiments that disqualifies anything that isn’t catachans, cadians and Kreigsmen is the last straw. I’m going to one page rules.
Tank detachment seems to be the boring and underwhelming one, which is a shame, running tanks shouldnt feel mundane
Mundane is the theme of 10th ed
But we haven't seen anything about the tank detachment, how do you know that it is boring and underwhelming? Am I missing something?
@@JackDesperojust doomers as usual
@@JackDespero mostly because of the leaks, usually they leak the things that are interesting to build up hype, while keep the more boring and less worked on one's in the background, and seeing how competitive scenes go, they tend to focus more on movement shenanigans, hence my speculation of tank detachment being the boring one
Minefield aka Reverse Grenades. Also yay more reason to not run Melee in an edition where it sucks.
I don’t fear missing out. I fear the prices.
Not aimed at auspex tactics.
The rules literally say you can not improve save below 3+. The amount of people thinking it can go to a 2+, or people who are whinging it will, are everything wrong with 40k. GW will have to release an errata for these plebs.
Someone was even whinging about some of this being better than marines. How speshul do some people have to be? Seriously.
What makes laugh is now guard actually get some of that premium gotcha cheese, people are crying about it 😂.
Just 40K people being stereotypical 40K people
Insane
Could be running 3 basilisks with the first bombing option to cover whatever wasn't hit by the initial bombing, in order to utterly blue ball khorne enjoyers.
Parry this you filthy casual.
(just in case, please do not take this joke personally)
Given 10th is the worst edition ever
Go play 6th wee man. Tell us how it goes ;)
@alexisauld7781 actually been playing 2nd.... some of us have been in the hobby for more that 2 minutes champ
15:19 probably more usable for the new Krieg death riders and character.