I have never been religious but I love your series; it's so intelligent and it explains why theists believe what they believe. I find your deep look into religious texts and the psychology of belief very valuable. The need to be skeptical, doubt, and explore why one believes something applies to other areas of life too. I find the idea of a god ridiculous and it's hard to understand why anyone would believe except that they have been taught it and have never thought about what they believe. I would think your videos would give reassurance and strength to any theist that wanted to explore why they believe. I encourage theists to listen to this series, you can always stop if you want to. But give it a try.
@Kairi Ali (For anyone thinking I am arguing with myself, the pussy who was countering me deleted his comments. I left mine intact so that his destruction is public still) Well did you ever consider the argument that *if there is no creation, there is no creator* I know that we humans try to find purpose in our existence. We try to presuppose that we are created, and that would mean that we ought to know our creator. If you realize the basic problem in that belief, it assumes that existence depends on the object being created. But what if the object exists, and also it was not created? Would we deny its existence just because it was confirmed not to be created? Our belief that a creator exists depends on the fact that we are a creation. This spiritual bliss that we feel when we have moments of being in awe are a product of our assumption that we are a creation. The universe is confirmed by physics *not* to be created. It is a result of purely natural processes. In fact a new universe can pop up given the right thermodynamic conditions at anytime and anywhere. The building blocks of the universe, called quantum fields always existed before the universe was formed. When they attained energies that corresponded to particles we know of, this resulted in the matter we know of comming into existence. You can fact check my claims by reference to even basic scientific sources, if you find any thing wrong in them.
@Kairi Ali And all of this is testable and provable(and by extension falsifiable). If you doubt my claims, you can point them out to me for further justification, or you can fact check me yourself. I am not trying turn you away from your spirituality and the ideas of creator gods. I am just posing an idea to you that is scientifically verifiable and testable, that the universe and all things in it are not created. All processes leading up to the existence of the world as we know it are completly natural. There is no need for a creator, if we are not a creation.
@Kairi Ali Sure. It is hard to imagine how would the world make sense if everything hallened by accident. But if you will recall *I never said that anything happened by accident.*
@Kairi Ali That presupposes that these things are created. I told you in my previous comments that things exist without being created. If someone assumes that something created the quantum fields, then by that same logic we must ask who created the one who created the quantum fields.
The day my older brother told me he was Atheist, we were pretty young, maybe in middle school, and we were in the car alone at my grandparents' Wesleyan church. The church was doing some very emotional prayer, and it overwhelmed him, causing him to want to step out, so I went with him. He told me that earlier, the pastor was saying things about doubt, that if you have doubtful thoughts, it's because the devil planted them there. This caused him to fall into a mental paradox, not being able to trust his own mind. That night he came to the conclusion that it wasn't real.
I think the hardest part for me before I finally let my faith go was the fear that my doubts were being planted in my mind by Satan and his angels because that's what I was taught to believe. As a kid I was constantly being warned that the devil wanted my soul and would do anything to get me away from God and my family's religion and trap me on earth in the "world" so I couldn't go to heaven with them when I die.
For me it was me and my mom the more I asked questions the more upset she became but her anger only drove my curiosity even further. I figured she only got mad because she couldn’t answer any of my questions not because some invisible enemy was making me ask.
For anyone who is scared to doubt anything, remember this. The truth has nothing to fear from further searching and questioning. The truth will remain the truth.
I heard a very wise theologian once say that many people are afraid to doubt because they fear it could open up some kind of "intellectual black hole" that would swallow God, and then he would be gone. But, if this actually happens, then it wasn't God. If God really exists, he would be too big to be swallowed by any black hole. If your God was swallowed by your doubts, there's no need to pity, because it wasn't God all along.
Thank you, this resolve me to continue pushing forward, I was tempted to go back to church to shake off the feeling that I am sinning just by not going to church so yea. Truth will remain the truth.
When I was a Christian, growing up, my mom and other religious authorities in my life (camp counselors, pastors, etc.) encouraged me to question my faith/beliefs. They said that if I question whether god exists, and if I ask him to show himself to me or speak to me, he will. He didn't. And I am an atheist now (I'm not bragging or boasting, just stating facts). But I truly appreciate that they told me it was okay to question my beliefs. I don't think the outcome of doing so was what they wanted or expected, but that's the case.
I was raised similar. Unfortunately, when I asked YHWH/Jesus to show himself/speak to me...I because convinced that I got answers in the form of things happening. It took me years to understand how confirmation bias actually worked, which helped me escape the self-delusion.
Yeah. I want to say that my camp counselors were extremely supportive when i told them i was no longer a Christian. You hear all these bad things about Christian camp, but I had an absolutely wonderful experience. It was tough on my mom, but she still loves me and i knew she wouldn't like kick me out or anything, i knew it was safe. I really have been blessed in these regards.
"taste and see that the Lord is good" .... I've been tasting for 40 years and it's not tasting good anymore. I've asked God to show himself to me too and nothing. I have a chronic pain that is very minor, it isn't all that annoying and there is no reason God couldn't heal it. Doctors don't know what it is, but God should know right? It should be really easy for him to cure me right?. I've been asking for him to do that by the end of 2017 without medical intervention as a sign to me. I don't expect anything to happen.
Square Peg - Jesus speaking: Matthew 21:22 If you have faith, you will receive whatever you pray for. You know that this is not true though. Christians pray with faith for things that they will never receive on a daily basis. Can I ask why you would give God until the end of 2017 to heal you? Don't you believe that God, being omnipotent, could do it now?
@@jamesmac357 Your god allows uncountable, indescribable horrors in this world just because people don't believe in them? Sounds more like the devil to me. I can see by all the stock dogma you're dribbling that you're thoroughly indoctrinated and can't think for yourself.
As an ex-Muslim I'm glad to see you starting to directly talk about Islam in your videos, which would make them more relevant and relatable to people I share them with.
I want to give more focus to Islam in my work. Because my videos have essentially been responses to the comments that come my way - for instance, me and my brother made a piece on Pascal's wager when it was coming up all the time in our threads - Islam hasn't featured predominantly, although I've still tried to mention it to keep it in the mix. As I'm having exchanges with an increasing number of ex-muslim brothers and sisters, it's organically becoming part of my work.
12:13 When I became a teenager, my otherwise atheist mother started getting me and my brothers to "thank the universe" each time we ate a meal she prepared. It was rather bizarre and went on for about a month or two. One evening, when she asked again for us to thank the universe, my younger brother turned to her and went "thank you for dinner, mum".
@@Dock284Why? It sounds as though she was merely trying to create an alternative tradition to saying Grace. And it makes a certain amount of sense... everything that happens is caused by everything else... hence thanking the universe rather than a single person. We sing songs, tell stories, create art, put lights on Christmas trees, wish people a Happy New Year, and all manner of other traditions, some more common than others. Thanking the universe doesn't sound especially outlandish in comparison and certainly wouldn't imply any particular need for therapy :) I guess the boy preferred just to thank his mother instead and there's nothing to suggest that she threw a fit over it so... Sounds like a non-issue to me :)
@@DanaTheInsane I haven't talked to my mum in some years due to abuse but whenever asked she would be pretty firm in saying she didn't believe in a god or magic or spirituality. She was raised Catholic however, and would make a show of religious reverence in certain areas, whether it was out of guilt or respect I was never sure. She's a mixed and volatile bag overall is what I will say.
I was punished for doubt by my parents. It took me well into adulthood to realize how much Christianity played a part in that. Let me be clear: it is absolutely possible for Christianity to be followed to the letter AND still lose your kids to the state. When that day came in my life, I was about 14 years old, and it felt like a RESCUE. I was sent to a school up north as a ward of the state. I had been labeled a "chronic runaway." I was being "punished" and sent to live with some kinda scary/fun kids... Looking back, I realize now it was a reform school. I remember being told for a year and a half that my parents shoulda been there, not me, but I LOVED IT. I cried when they sent me back home. (The state can't always rescue you forever if parents eventually comply with mandatory counseling.) "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is an ABUSIVE phrase. Some of the most UNholy words ever uttered. Also, I want to make clear: there is NO AGE OF REASON in a human lifetime. We all make mistakes at ANY AGE, and there is no cut off point that suddenly makes anyone understand morality the way Jesus wants. You CANNOT blame the kid. No one in their right mind blames a child for being abused. If anyone ever does it to you, it's NOT TRUE. I went to Catholic school when I was in first grade before my parents went full fundamentalist. I remember a nun teaching my class saying, "Always obey your parents," and I asked "what if your parents tell you to do something wrong?" She told me "they won't." lol, just like that, they simply won't. You're never too young to have a mind-shattering moment.
I'm confused. The way you wrote your comment suggests that the *state* punished you for doubt: "... lose your kids to the state. When that day came in my life, I was about 14 years old, and it felt like a RESCUE. I was sent to a school up north as a ward of the state. I had been labeled a "chronic runaway." I was being "punished"
Anyway, governments are not your saviours. I was kept prisoner in a hospital funded by the UK government for over 2 years recently basically for thinking abnormally. While I was there, the drugs that I was forced to take were increased because a doctor saw me talking to myself! There were also many physical abuses.
@@jacobscrackers98 I'm sorry to confuse you. I'm not an author, and my writing skills probably aren't great. I had at least hoped the meaning would survive, but alas... I think you had the opposite happen. Maybe the govt took you from safety and put you into danger? I was taken from danger and put into safety. Anything taken to extremes if can be highly abusive, even something as mundane as government. What you went through sounds like a terrifying experience. I hope you aren't in a place like that ever again. I hope both of us can be safe now.
I have a friend who, when I expressed doubts to her and questions about my Christian faith, scolded me that I wasn't going to be satisfied with any answer and that I wasn't just "trusting God." I was taken aback and hurt and couldn't understand why wanting a legitimate answer was a bad thing.
@@CynicalDudeNo, because the nature of religious indoctrination is abusive. Judging from your comment, you know nothing about evolutionary or life science. And you assume all athiests believe evolution.
I have been out of my religious upbringing and atheist for almost a decade now. But having had these things impressed upon me from before I could even speak has left me still finding pieces of ideology that I don't agree with stuck inside me. If you were trained from birth (or really any vulnerable period) to be a specific thing, there might always be an impulse to default to being that thing, acting or thinking that way. But we are each our own person, with the ability to make decisions and decide things for ourselves. You know what you believe, and regardless of other opinions, the important thing is that it sits right with you. You are the one who has to live with yourself.
"To find yourself, think for yourself." I'm almost in high school (8th grade) and I've been having doubts about my religion. I'm currently living in a Muslim household, and being Muslim is all I've ever really been. When I took that away, I felt like a nobody, and went through this little stage of depression. My appetite diminished, and I felt like ending my life. I have more of a deistic mentality rather than a Islamic one as of now, and I feel a little freer. I still have this spontaneous fear of hell every once in a while, and even that is deteriorating because I watched your _Departure of theism_ video. I know I'm 7 years late, but thank you for taking the time to voice logic and reason into your content. 🙂
Hey man, hope he is helping you. Departing from a faith, any it may be, is a hard road, and you may feel alone,but remember, there's always someone, somewhere walking this road with you
I hope you're doing well. You are not a religion, you are a person, and you can have a strong, beautiful and fulfilling identity outside of that. I wish you the best! By the way, there is an ex-muslim creator who could help you: Apostate Aladdin. He has a lot of helpful videos for people leaving islam
I'm with you man. I've been walking that plank since I was 10. I just finished high school, you're a strong guy, and let me tell you, you are worth it, you are worth more than any gold deposit on this Earth, that is most valuable, I hope you can treasure your life, it is all we have as which we can see.
Doubt and rebelliousness are the ways out of being confined by systemised religiousness and control that is perpetuated and encouraged by some unethical religious leadership with their own agendas, under the guise of providing experiences that are beneficial, but are not relative to the person's functioning and health and which results in further psychological damage being inflicted on an already desensitised person in some cases.Questioning can provide information and also an exit point.
@@jacquelynemichael419 It is perpetrated by ALL religious leadership. If a leader deviates from this course, they are run out of the org in short order.
that red and yellow analogy explains exactlyy how ive always felt about people being angry with nonbelievers "refusing proof" when said proof always is coming from everything BUT the source. And why would God allow us to waste time arguing over whether he exists or said x y and z versus giving us all a fair start with a proper introduction? Then it would properly be an act of "free will" to obey or not. This channel simply articulates every thought I couldn't myself.
i have religiously indoctrinated people in my life, they are like a dependent functioning addict, the difference is that this kind of addict does not only inject poison into their own bodies but onto others. i truly respect your work
Thanks. Yep, as I once commented in an old video on death, unlike drug addiction, in religion everyone else is required to shoot up too, in order to sustain the individual's high.
@@TheraminTrees i value your professional work. Thank you for responding, i will try on this trial and tribulation times to promote our free exersise of responsible freedom beeing my future or your channel and others too
TheraminTrees I've been a subscriber for quite a while and I think that your content is unique among the atheists I follow in that you seem genuinely dedicated to not allowing cynicism to dominate these very important discussions. I enjoy it. ^^
If he would talk about what is left after religion, they wouldn't have a happy note either. Cosmic nihilism is what remains. A sad but true philosophy surrending the position of humans in the universe and time.
@@peterkiss1204 The alternative to dogma is acknowledging that we are VERY insignificant in scale of the universe. Nihilism doesn't mean depression, I think that's something I've changed my mind about. Nihilism means you should be free to express yourself however you want (as long as you aren't causing needless harm) because nothing means anything, so you shouldn't care if people think your expression isn't what we arbitrarily define as normal. You want to be a furry? Go for it. You want to exist as a trans person? That shouldn't even be a debate. Nihilism is extremely liberating.
@@erika.sGod be loving those children who completely lack agency due to being in their development phase by putting satan controlled adults in their life to oppress and control them in permanently psychologically scarring ways, and then send those kids into heaven after a lifetime of devotion and sacrifice of their minds and livelihoods where they’ll either live eternally tortured by those memories of God’s allowance or be lobotomised with those memories blotted out to not inconvenience their pleasure with doubt.
@@erika.s To which I always have to think "but if God is all-powerful and all-knowing, then that intrinsically means he allowed it to happen regardless of the devil's involvement or not." Cue mysterious ways.
Again, this is some of the best content on youtube - not just in content, but in presentation. Theramin and his brother are criminally undersubbed and underviewed. IMO these videos should by all rights have millions of views, not a handful of thousands. Spread the word by recommending the channel to a friend.
i agree, though he could've picked more common english than advanced ones. my english is way better than my peers, and i still have to pause the video & consult oxforddictionaries multiple times. imagine how harder it would be for others like my peers
@@anime.soundtracks This is fair criticism I think - but it is always a trade-off between using very precise language and using easy to understand language. It can be hard to discuss complex topics with everyday words. But it is also probably a little bit because highly educated people like to use complex words. I am guilty of this sometimes also. The trick is to know when you can use a simple word and not lose anything of what you meant to say. This is an art-form for professional writers I think. Easy to say, but hard to master. I don't think it is overly complex on purpose. I like to think of it like an opportunity to learn more words. A wide vocabulary (words you can easily use) is strongly connected to how flexible your brain is in general (which is something you can practice), plus it's nice to be able to know how to write something very precisely when you need to :) PS: Your English is much better than most native speakers, and very close to perfect. For me it is a secondary language also, and I take some pride in that :)
Timestamp 13:40 - I once went to a Church where one of the leaders had been abused as a child, and she did make this argument all the time. It was awful to watch this woman talking about how she loved the God who had planned this for her.
Thank you so much for commenting this, this helped something click in my brain. Even now, I sometimes find myself saying things like "I am the person I am because of [the abuse I was subjected to for 25 years]" (implying a sort of deeper purpose to why I was abused) NO. I am who I am today IN SPITE OF the abuse I was subjected to for 25 years. My abusers deserve no credit for my victories of overcoming trauma that they caused, they deserve no praise for my personal growth which they hindered and prohibited for years. They abused me and it was fucked up, there was no meaning in such horrific behaviour. I escaped and am continuously overcoming its effects on my life and psychology, the credit of which I am due.
RELIGIOUS PEOPLE: "Why do you doubt?" ME: "Because, God gave me a brain to doubt things which I can't see, hear, touch, smell and taste. If you're angry at me for doubting...then, be angry at God for making me doubt."
Watch these religious folks turn around & shame you by saying the devil is in your head or you’re possessed by the devil or some bs. There is no winning with religious folks, they have excuses for EVERYTHING
@@Cherry-kc8dm And, when YOU say the devil might be in THEIR heads...they lose their minds. They seem to be able to "dish it," but, they just can't take it.
I will just tell them there is no scientific model that proves God. And than I will prove that down to the laws of thermodynamics and quantum superposition. I will tell them how we are too primitive to understand the laws of nature as of our current civilization intellectual knowledge. I will tell them that they believe in the extraordinary, the ungezeifer.
Some christians will say doubt is good and natural and refer to their usual Q&A books. 2000 years of apologetics is hard to refute for a layman. They will also say that if God reveals himself to end the doubt of his existence then faith wouldn't be needed anymore. Faith is a virtue but obedience isn't because it ends the free will. For some reason knowing didn't hurt the people in the old testament who "actually" talked to God.
Jiří Havel Satan is, according to their mythos, an angel (a being with extensive knowledge and personal experience of their god) who rebelled and so must have had free will, so leaving no room for humans to doubt the existence of a god would not remove our ability to exercise our free will to tell that god to fuck off.
@@jamesmac357 Why can't he stop judging people? I thought he's supposed to be all-mighty, so he should be able to change his behavior. Are there other gods, who aren't holy or perfect, and if not, why add these attributes as to look like to seperate from other gods? And wasn't he supposed to be a caring and good god, not a god full of revenge? Because "never forgives and never forgets" doesn't sound that all-loving, more like a psychopath.
Wonderful video Theramin Trees. You have no idea how refreshing it is to watch these videos in an extremely religious community that does everything it can to suppress doubt. *cough cough* utah *cough cough*
MIND-EMULATOR-9000, how often I have sat in fast and testimony meeting listening to people say they know the Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Now that I'm out, I find it hard to understand how I ever believed anything so ridiculous. But I have gotten absolutely nowhere talking to my family about such things.
Don’t know if you’ll see this but your videos have been crucial to my recovery from religious trauma more than you’ll ever know, thank you for everything. ❤️
Unfortunately, many of those who are not skeptics, those who do not doubt will take a pass on watching this video. It's too bad that a video such as this cannot be shown in schools because it would challenge parents' authority to indoctrinate their children.
That is exactly what I too was thinking around half way through. It would be bad enough here in the UK, quite how it would go over in parts of America I could only begin to imagine. Maybe lynching parties of irate parents? But certainly fearing for one's job would be realistic in some cases. Thinking for oneself doesn't appear to be too popular in far too many "circles".
the problem I have is that I have become increasingly doubtful over the years whilst my partner remains a believer (although I suspect they have their own doubts) yet they want to carry on this tradition (with the coercion of their parents) to follow blindly without doubt and indoctrinate my children. I suspect I may have a major falling out or even split if my doubt becomes clear as it may do as I don't want my children to go to religious schools and have their inquisitive minds halted, as these institutions have the capacity to indoctrinate rather than teach. my kids are already sceptical but I fear my in laws (and unwavering support from my partner) may overwhelm their young minds.
Bonobo Handshake Something you may want to consider as an alternative to leaving your partner is to teach them briefly about a number of different religions/creation myths that have occurred over the years, what areas of the world in which those religions originated and so on. This way you don't have to say that your partner's beliefs are wrong but your children will see that they can choose from many or choose to accept none at all, as you have done. Good luck.
1140Cecile thankyou, I am glad that despite my children having close contact with overtly religious grandparents who look after them and are very influential (they look after them whilst I am at work), my little boy still feels comfortable to talk to me and has the sense to ask me about "miracles" which he already doubts, I simply say: some people believe in X and some in Y and there is people who believe in Z. As a 5 year old I find it amazing that despite me NOT talking to him about creation and evolution, he still came to me to confess his doubt for the things his mother and grandparents are trying to teach him. Im not gonna lie, when he told me "god is not real, how the hell does eve come from adams rib" I had a sigh of relief, so it does give me a little peace of mind.
Seriously an amazing topic covered in this video. In my world view, the greatest "sin" of religion is it's killing of curiosity, and punishing doubt is one of the biggest tools in that arsenal.
"If he existed, he would be absolutely accountable." Brilliant logic. I wrote down the whole concept of the clergy's power over the common man, especially young boys. Thank you so much.
I was introduced to this channel one night maybe 3 or 4 years ago when my older sibling was trying to explain why they didn't believe in a god. At the time I was very much following what everyone around me believed and said without question. Now I'm desperately trying to deconstruct my former beliefs. since I was 4 years old, I've been terrified that I didn't have enough faith. somehow I still have this fear. watching these videos is giving me some peace of mind, so thank you.
You know i always wanted to know the psychology behind religion. I mean there has to be, it almost seems taboo to put psychology and religion in the same sentence to believers. When i was a believer its something i never wanted to bring up or think for myself, because i never wanted to face the facts that maybe i got manipulated again... Its healing to me that you can say its a humanly thing to be this way, that puts immense pressure off my life. And i just feel like crying because how unnecessarily hard ive been on myself all these years... Thank you TT
This video was published on my 64th birthday. I am a new subscriber and I must say I find your videos very well done and extremely inspiring. I came out of religion in the early 1980s, way before the internet and TH-cam. It has been so great being able to access videos such as these since people like you have been putting them online. Thank you for doing this and I hope you are well.
When you said does god give people the pedophiles they needed? you really had me there! also i would like to deeply thank you for sharing your analysis on religion, it really helped me notice all the manipulation that comes from it, and i feel like thanks to leaving Christianity i made a first step into healing my wounds and thinking for myself, granted i can still get swayed by ideas if im not careful but my experience with religious indoctrination has at least taught me about how effective and dangerous ideas can be for your perception of life so i will always remember that lesson, and as always i would like to encourage you to keep posting these kinds of videos because they really do help.
Though a few of the other skulls desperately tried, my parental units were not the ones trying to put me in a religious trap. my father was quite mindful of many spiritualities, my mother a lifelong Christian. I have had multiple millennia of freedom to explore my mind, and I found long ago that Sikhs and I agree in significant ways. Life is situation so it must be viewed with all three eyes open. Keep kindness and an open door to the mind. Love your videos, TheraminTrees. You are a life-changing exceptional creature.
What i love about this channel is how he words stuff! He uses "Big words" in a way that just clicks into Understanding for me! And English isn't even my first language!
This year has been a lot. I had already stopped going to church years ago but a few months ago I decided I was really done with it all. I also discovered (or rather confirmed a thought that was too scary to investigate when I first observed this as a child) that my parent’s idea of “love” is nothing near what I needed as a child or even as an adult, and that they have some serious narcissistic traits. I’ve spent most of my life internally tearing myself apart for my inadequacy, always assuming I was the problem. I’m still kind of processing it all but I’m looking forward to the increased mental real estate I’m going to have once I fully disconnect from my indoctrination and I don’t have someone gaslighting me all the time. I appreciate your (and your brother’s) channels a lot. If not for TH-cam atheists I might have sat stale in my life for a lot longer. Thank you 🙏🏻
Huh, you don't usually see specific examples from Islam like this. Usually you stick to Christianity, so it's interesting to see you branching out. I like the use of different perspectives like this. Also, the example with six priests talking about visions of hell and is talking about "William Shatner's Shakespeare Monologues" made me laugh.
Worth watching over again multiple times. I don’t watch them back to back but I do watch his videos over again at different times. Literal gold in defending yourself against baseless claims against you.
I feel like crying. You are putting into words many of the thoughts that I have been struggling to grasp and understand for a very long time. I guess listening to 4 of your videos in a row while at work isn't the best idea for me emotionally, but I can't keep living in this area of uncertainty. Thanks again for your videos.
Yes I am, but damn this is hard. I know your experience wasn't easy when you were a teenager, but I'd 40 and going through this. I've had so much more time with it and have only begun questioning over the past few years. I wish I could have gone through this when I was younger.
Square Peg - I was about 37. No matter the age though, it's always a good time to let go of this foolishness and live life to the fullest without the weight of any god around one's neck. TheraminTrees - You never cease to amaze me! Thank you for what you do.
Square Peg, I would echo Child Boo's comment. I've previously compared the experience of losing my indoctrinated religion to throwing a rock at a spider's web - the devastating loss of connections was immobilising. Then I realised it was more like demolishing a derelict building - something unsafe to live in. Starting over seemed daunting - but gave me the opportunity to build with safer, more robust materials.
Thank you for these videos. I've never had my thoughts so plainly expressed before like this. It's amazing to know my reasons for leaving church really have been valid all this time, and now, I can clearly explain why they are
As always, really good work, appreciate it. I come from a family, in which close, and distant members of this family, are very religious. Doubt is very supressed, and dismissed with answers such like "god is all knowing, knows more than you do, so don't expect to understand him and his plans" "he knows better" "that probably is a part of his plan" and so on. I really can't get to them, they just straight out ignore all logic when it comes to religion. I tried to show them that they are making a claim, which cannot be dismissed, if something happens the way that they were praying, they say god helped achieve that, but in a situation when their prayers aren't fulfilled, they say that "he knows better" line. When I explain them that it is an really dishonest approach, they can't grasp it. To them it's perfectly logical and fine. I just really don't know how to make them see that this type of thinking is faulty. Do you have any idea how I can reason with them? I wouldn't have a problem with that, but they are indoctrinating my brother and sister, actively discouraging them from thinking, it just makes me really sad when looking at it. Right before I moved out, my sister came to me and expressed some doubts about her belief. I told her that she should start thinking for herself, that she should examine both sides of the argument, not just listen to priests and believers. Recently I made a visit for summer, probably she spoke to my parents or grandmother, and they discouraged her from further pursuing her doubts.
Again, these words express my experience--"too often it is not a lack of trust, but too much". I came to say, "My problem was not lack of loyalty, but too much", and it stole years of my life with pain, disability and social censure (which is defined as "love"-which of course was my fault, because their solutions only made me more ill, of course because I'm evil and unrepentant --and around and around. If one gets frustrated or emotional about it, the emotion itself is condemned as proof of one's weakness and bad attitude. Shall a human being NOT be allowed to grieve, or be angry (Bible does not forbid that, amazingly, though Christians find a way). It is somehow unspiritual to feel. We OUGHT to have a bad attitude about some things.
Your words express the 'gaslighting' experiences many of us share - we're told all other roads lead to 'wrong'; all pain is self-induced, never inflicted by the corrupt ideology; all negative emotions and complaints spring from childish rebellion, never from legitimate grievance. It's a hall of distorting mirrors. Once we find a patch of reality, where the reflections are honest and true, we can begin to see just how distorting that hall of mirrors was.
The production value on your videos is unbelievable. There are few channels that I regularly watch, and yours will be one of them as your videos are extremely well done. Thank you for the hard work you do.
This video (as with all of your others I’ve seen) is so well done, I’m just amazed with your ability to put it together in such a way that seems to hit every point needed, and hits those points in such a way that brings it home as well as anybody could possibly think to do it. So very much appreciated, and can’t wait to direct my kids to your videos as they grow a little older. Thank you so much for doing this.
If there is a god I don't see why we think earth or the human race is so particularly important to him with the knowledge we have now of how vast the universe is. It seems like hubris almost to me for us to think that we are the most important creation in the universe. Just looking up at the sky at night, an experience available to even the most lumpen among us, gives you the exact opposite impression - that we are just a tiny dot in a sea of them.
I desagree, when you find an dimond in the middle of the sand beach you dont say ohh thist rare material its meaningles comparing with the tons of minerals acumulated by the waters, the oposite hapends you get exited, you investigate the material and watch its rare properties, the same for planet earth, we are special , life its more rare than anything on the universe, we think the rocks dont, we where criated by Gods image, the supernovas didn't , you are infinitly more precios than all the stardust you would get in the universe, and that is what makes us important to God , you dont see your importance? See it again because is that kind of thought that ends up in iuseles suicide, by thinking you are no better than a bag of dust, people dont see an reason for pain, and jst want it to end right in the moment, and that is wrong. You are not an acident.
In that context it's interesting to see how the alleged "Creator of the Universe" talks about the stars in Genesis. They're just "little lights" in the sky. Easy to understand if the Bible was just written by bronze age men based on what they could see. Not so easy to understand if those are the words of the all-knowing Creator of the universe. And in Revelation a big star even falls to earth "destroying one third of the rivers on earth." in the proces. Yeah. At least!
@@anime.soundtracks Perhaps, but poetry doesn't always have to be understood to be enjoyed. And you can always look at this as an opportunity to learn cool new words. :)
I'm so glad I gave myself the grace to doubt my religious beliefs. It was what allowed me to investigate the truth claims better and to realize it wasn't what it claimed to be.
I have no 'doubt' that this is by far the most convincing and comforting TH-cam channel.I feel happy I found this channel as well I am sad that it took me so long to find it, but better late than never. It has been so far the best channel that I have subscribed. Thank You for making truly awesome videos.
Just watched 'grooming minds', thought the wordless opening cinematic was very evocative of the central concept. Moved to this one, expectations high for that cinematic. When I realized how the text was moving, in an old, familiar motion, when I realized what was going to happen... it was quite affecting. But the ending one was even better. Thank you for continuing to make these.
I found the analogy of the red door and yellow door amusing, as it reminded me of a place I used to work. The fire exit was through doors that led to the "Shiny Hallways" They were literally a shiny hallways. The walls, floors and ceilings were shiny and they were very well lit, and yet, one of the things we learned when we went through training, is that people will refuse to use the emergency exits unless you are very clear that, "yes, the is an emergency and it's okay to go through this door".
All of your videos are amazing, I come back to them frequently to help me unearth further unhealthy thinking patterns. My deepest thanks for all of your hard work!
Came across your channel a couple of days ago and it’s all I’ve been watching since. This is easily the best content on this platform. You are an absolute beast when it comes to these topics. I’ve had doubts about Islam for about a year and a half now, and after watching your videos, I wonder how I haven’t came across these blatant flaws and immoralities all across this religion (and organized religion as a whole). The way you articulate your points is so provocative, coherent, and just very refreshing. Thank you so much for this amazing work
I just finished watching all of your videos. It has been very reassuring and engaging to hear your arguments, putting logic to things I've taken for granted and things I ignored. I'm happy that I'll forever have access to this invaluable resource
I am watching this and my heart is beating so hard in my chest and tears are brimming in my eyes. I hate, hate, hate how my faith ( Islam) feels so unbearably huge and heavy yet hollow and meaningless. I wish things were easier.
I'm sorry to hear you are struggling. Please look after yourself and try your best to gain independence, just in case you ever feel the need to escape from your community. Remember there are others who have been through similar difficulties and made it out the other side, hard though it can be at first. Good luck :)
Every day I wake up grateful for being an atheist and having atheist parents. As someone with OCD, I cannot imagine being religious. Funny enough, I had a sort of religious- or higher power- related stage at some point, and that was severe enough. I don't need to genuinely believe that shit, religion would be so detrimental with this combo
I have OCD, Tourettes, ASD among other, as i child i had OCD religious obsession (since i was inducted into the church w/o consent). It was terrible yes. My OCD (spectrum stuff) never left, and its still horrible, but i dont have religious obsessions anymore. Now its primarily harm ocd and tics
Yeah, this definitely applies to my family dynamic. Catholic background, but allowed to believe whatever I wanted. However I still feel like all of what you are saying applies as I was never allowed to question or doubt my mom's abilities and would gaslight me into a docile people pleaser with no consideration for myself.
I was never religious but having been around Christians I felt gaslighted and demanded that I was not good enough and not worthy of a good life. I developed self-condemnation. I hated religion.
You are a fantastic blast of sanity and compassion. Distressing but unfortunately inevitable that you get hate messages: I recently asked some simple questions on a fundamentalist website and received sneering evasions and a barely concealed aggression while they were justifying killing children in the OT. (GotQuestions if you fancy a go). As a composer I appreciate your theramin and excellent music. I watch your videos again and again. The reviewers who push for these to be shown in schools is spot on.
Cheers. Sad isn't it that some dogmas debase folks to the point that they defend atrocities like killing children - and call it 'love'. But heartening that lots of folks say it was reading those kinds of vile scriptures that helped to prod them awake.
Made me think about doubts relationship to trust. Given that trust builds based on a historical pattern of integrity, there must be times when we doubt so we can allow trust to grow. Doubt is essentially a precursor to trust. Without doubt, real trust is impossible. The trustee needs to recognise that allowing the potential truster to doubt is important if being trusted is important to the trustee. We can't expect to be trusted without letting others witness our own integrity. The onus is on the trustee to show their integrity, not the potential truster to just go ahead and place trust. Religions that forbid or discourage doubting do not follow this process so trust is impossible. This is where the equivocation between faith and trust comes in.
Love the Ingersoll quote :-D It's a funny thing. Even watching this vid I still feel the physical and emotional discomfort that came with doubting my faith, a physiological response to the dissonance that is still there even after all these years! A great piece as always TheraminTrees - thank you for the time and effort you take to draw these ideas together, I always leave your channel feeling a little clearer :-) Take care, N
Fortunately, it only took me a night to think it through. I have been having some serious doubts a few months prior, and when I finally realized none of it was real, I accepted it fairly easily. There was a lot of crying though coz I was only 15 at that time and so so scared.
Thanks theramin. When I found your channel, I was suffering from years of unending pressure to have faith in Islam even from my early years at kindergarten, and when they told me "You must have faith, because if you don't, you will go to hell" I blindly followed WITHOUT thinking about the overwhelming injustice the phrase meant, does that mean if someone of a different religion did something to make everyones life so much better, Allah does not appreciate that and instead cast him to hell? Of course, I didn't think of this since I was so young when this happened, I never deeply think about it since I couldn't. And the constant "advice" to have gratitude for your parents birthing you with Allah's favor, and that "advice" led me down a hole that started my severe depression (that is hidden from everyone except those who read this) and just so many mental health problems that it's not even worth it to mention here, from kindergarten until 9th grade I was a child indoctrinated into a religion that I never consented to. After a depressive episode that lasted for 3 weeks, I found this channel and that is where I finally found rescue from this madness of a life I have, I started to think as to why I didn't even get an offer to join Islam, only an indoctrination that told me "it's the only true religion and Allah knows what is best for you. " If that was true, then why would Allah permitted my family to starve me to death if I didn't pray 5 times in a single day, or how much the word "gratitude" and "respect" get used to protect teachers from abusing their students with absolutely tiring homework and group projects as something that is normal everyday things, or how my beloved friends who belong i other religions will burn in hellfire even though they never did anything sinful enough to warrant something so vile as eternal torment. Even my mother, who threatened me with going to jail if I didn't do my homework, yet tell me that was all for my own good. And I have met hypocrites, who told me to have critical thinking is a tool you must have if you want to be an adult, yet punishes anyone with harassment and even guilt-tripping if someone even doubts about anything in Islam. Even now, after being an apostate from Islam and in hiding, I never truly escaped that guilt I have from my early years. And that guilt made me tolerate abuse and opression of such simple things as doubts. And that guilt also led me to being weak mentally, example is when I always near tears when I yell at someone who deserved it, or how much others word hurted me without even thinking how much pain their words cause and hides behind reasonings such as "it was only a joke" and "it's just the truth", and their words led me into a suicide attempt which I halted due to my guilt of leaving my family. But, that guilt made me a better individual who is always helping and forgiving, who always think of what to say to not hurt anyone, to be an individual who knows that hurting someone who doesn't deserve it is not worth it even if it will lead me into success in life. But this positive part about the guilt could not be a reason for tolerating the tyranny of Islam or any other religions, and those who do is just another one in the rolling wheel of indoctrination and hypocrites. And that word, "success" is the word that almost everyone around me uses to tolerate and give reasonings at my pain and suffering from school, they used it in words like "if you don't learn now (meaning to tolerate the painful homeworks and projects and sudden evaluations), you will not be successful later in life" I know that I could tell my disbelief in Islam to those around me, but after some second thoughts I eventually decided that it is not worth it at all, what if they shamed me about it? What if I get kicked from my house just because I abandoned my faith that I never even consented to? I understand now that my nation (Indonesia) will never tolerate atheism, for if you get out of IsIam, you will be discriminated your whole life. And even if you revert back, distrust is still in the minds of those around the ones who revert back. I will never return to Islam, and now all I have to do is run a facade of a religious student until I could escape this country once and for all, and live somewhere without discrimination. But that will be a long time ahead, and the obstacles are never becoming easier.
@@user-oy8vu3xb2y I get this impulse, I really do, every "side" equally participating in discourse and politics to promote their ideologies. But I came to the realisation that while every side has its idiots, the ideologies themselves and the tactics their adherents systematically employ _are not equal_. Worse, by saying "everything sucks" and doing nothing, you are actually picking a side, the side of the status quo, and when you do that _who benefits_? Because there are right now, people who benefit immensely from the status quo, and its in their interests to alienate people away from changing it. If you are reading this, thank you for hearing me out.
Woah! I think you've outdone yourself with this one! This can be applied to any deeply-held belief whether religious or not. I watched twice, and I'd LIKE this 20 times if I could!
Welcome back, TT! For me, "doubt" is not a choice - I simply cannot accept a premise as true on someone's say-so. Sure, I may accept it as "tentatively true" if it's a mundane claim from a reliable source, or if the claim has little or no consequence in its acceptance, but beyond that, you better back up what you're saying, or I will simply reject it and your credibility will be reduced, in my eyes.
Yeah man I have seen doubt and atheism or agnosticism as a choice, I didn´t just wake up one day and said "Yeah God is fake because I say so" it just didn´t make any sense to me and I couldn´t look at religion the same way I did as a child, atheism was the only choice that made any semblance of sense in my head
I have experienced much of this manipulation in a religion. They used the very words: receive me, recieve the one who sent me. At the first of my time their, i thought nothing of being corrected by an "older disciple" about any and every issue correction could come from. they would even promise based on Jon 14:15,21 he who keeps the command, I will reveal myself to him. so ultimately i should just trust the correction coming, and god will reveal himself later as to what the correction meant, etc. Yet this never happened. and the leaders never apologized for pressuring me to receive nonsense. 18 years later there is no understanding about the correction i first received, nor later corrections either. It was all a masquerade
I'm sorry to say it's been about a year since I've checked up with your channel. I am very glad to see that you're still producing high quality videos. I thank you for the service that you've provided for me.
Very good job. This comparative work between religions and their outcome, in this case ("punishing doubt" and "group cohesion") could help to explain the nature of our social behavior to maintain such united and impermeable groups.
I'm in the US. I hope you have a new video coming soon. I really need a dose of sanity. It's been a rough week & I'm sure the next 4 years won't be much better. :\
1.) Person of divinity: “How dare you question God!” 2.) Why would an omniscient God be afraid of mere questions? I love questions from my child. I welcome them. I encourage them. I do not suppress them. I love my child’s questions, and all their “flaws”. 3.) Does this make me more a “God” than the person of divinity? 4.) Trust me. You surely do not want to worship me as a “God”, as much I surely do not want to worship a scared “God”. 5.) Do you have any questions?
I made a decision, on my mother's bedroom floor one day, to help her. True. Decades later and half-way through life, I'm still understanding the consequences. Blue. My opinions were hers, my perceptions hers, my worries, also hers. Renew. Learning to think for myself, my own thoughts gleaned from psychology, philosophy and humanitarianism. Accrue. Boundaries and limitations provide meaning and relevance: my esteem and confidence grow. Imbue. Thank-you TheraminTrees, yet again, for providing logical and objective reference points.
Excellent content ! Clearly and rationally explained, thoroughly covering many or all relevant points. Thank you for doing such amazing work that will, hopefully, influence many viewers to reassess their beliefs in the light of logic, reason and science.
Today I heard on the radio about people awaiting execution in death row for "disrespect towards god". By punishing non believers, believers show how fragile their faith actually is. How petty their beliefs. Their god wouldn't allow such things, if they existed.
I don't think that's silly at all. TheraminTrees is a brilliant thinker who can construct wonderfully compelling arguments, but sometimes I worry that he doesn't get enough credit for those small details in his videos that might not seem like much, but really make the whole thing come together.
18:40 i was wearing headphones then jumped when i heard a phone notification in the background in the middle of the night, only to realise that was just your recording lmaooo
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I have never been religious but I love your series; it's so intelligent and it explains why theists believe what they believe. I find your deep look into religious texts and the psychology of belief very valuable. The need to be skeptical, doubt, and explore why one believes something applies to other areas of life too. I find the idea of a god ridiculous and it's hard to understand why anyone would believe except that they have been taught it and have never thought about what they believe. I would think your videos would give reassurance and strength to any theist that wanted to explore why they believe. I encourage theists to listen to this series, you can always stop if you want to. But give it a try.
@Kairi Ali Which god? And how did you come to your belief?
@Kairi Ali (For anyone thinking I am arguing with myself, the pussy who was countering me deleted his comments. I left mine intact so that his destruction is public still)
Well did you ever consider the argument that *if there is no creation, there is no creator*
I know that we humans try to find purpose in our existence. We try to presuppose that we are created, and that would mean that we ought to know our creator.
If you realize the basic problem in that belief, it assumes that existence depends on the object being created. But what if the object exists, and also it was not created? Would we deny its existence just because it was confirmed not to be created? Our belief that a creator exists depends on the fact that we are a creation. This spiritual bliss that we feel when we have moments of being in awe are a product of our assumption that we are a creation.
The universe is confirmed by physics *not* to be created. It is a result of purely natural processes. In fact a new universe can pop up given the right thermodynamic conditions at anytime and anywhere. The building blocks of the universe, called quantum fields always existed before the universe was formed. When they attained energies that corresponded to particles we know of, this resulted in the matter we know of comming into existence.
You can fact check my claims by reference to even basic scientific sources, if you find any thing wrong in them.
@Kairi Ali And all of this is testable and provable(and by extension falsifiable). If you doubt my claims, you can point them out to me for further justification, or you can fact check me yourself.
I am not trying turn you away from your spirituality and the ideas of creator gods.
I am just posing an idea to you that is scientifically verifiable and testable, that the universe and all things in it are not created. All processes leading up to the existence of the world as we know it are completly natural. There is no need for a creator, if we are not a creation.
@Kairi Ali Sure. It is hard to imagine how would the world make sense if everything hallened by accident. But if you will recall *I never said that anything happened by accident.*
@Kairi Ali That presupposes that these things are created. I told you in my previous comments that things exist without being created.
If someone assumes that something created the quantum fields, then by that same logic we must ask who created the one who created the quantum fields.
The day my older brother told me he was Atheist, we were pretty young, maybe in middle school, and we were in the car alone at my grandparents' Wesleyan church. The church was doing some very emotional prayer, and it overwhelmed him, causing him to want to step out, so I went with him. He told me that earlier, the pastor was saying things about doubt, that if you have doubtful thoughts, it's because the devil planted them there. This caused him to fall into a mental paradox, not being able to trust his own mind. That night he came to the conclusion that it wasn't real.
It is scary when you have to squiggle though all kinds of contradictions alone...
Good thing you were with him. Happy for both of you. Peace.
This was my experience; unfortunately it didn't take a night, it took more than a year. An awful year.
I think the hardest part for me before I finally let my faith go was the fear that my doubts were being planted in my mind by Satan and his angels because that's what I was taught to believe. As a kid I was constantly being warned that the devil wanted my soul and would do anything to get me away from God and my family's religion and trap me on earth in the "world" so I couldn't go to heaven with them when I die.
For me it was me and my mom the more I asked questions the more upset she became but her anger only drove my curiosity even further. I figured she only got mad because she couldn’t answer any of my questions not because some invisible enemy was making me ask.
For anyone who is scared to doubt anything, remember this. The truth has nothing to fear from further searching and questioning. The truth will remain the truth.
True.
I heard a very wise theologian once say that many people are afraid to doubt because they fear it could open up some kind of "intellectual black hole" that would swallow God, and then he would be gone. But, if this actually happens, then it wasn't God. If God really exists, he would be too big to be swallowed by any black hole. If your God was swallowed by your doubts, there's no need to pity, because it wasn't God all along.
Thank you, this resolve me to continue pushing forward, I was tempted to go back to church to shake off the feeling that I am sinning just by not going to church so yea. Truth will remain the truth.
@@JeanneBooki'm very late to the conversation, but I sincerely hope it turned out well for you❤
It's funny, because when I was a Christian, I used to hear something similar: "God's not afraid of your doubts"
When I was a Christian, growing up, my mom and other religious authorities in my life (camp counselors, pastors, etc.) encouraged me to question my faith/beliefs. They said that if I question whether god exists, and if I ask him to show himself to me or speak to me, he will.
He didn't. And I am an atheist now (I'm not bragging or boasting, just stating facts). But I truly appreciate that they told me it was okay to question my beliefs. I don't think the outcome of doing so was what they wanted or expected, but that's the case.
I was raised similar. Unfortunately, when I asked YHWH/Jesus to show himself/speak to me...I because convinced that I got answers in the form of things happening.
It took me years to understand how confirmation bias actually worked, which helped me escape the self-delusion.
Yeah. I want to say that my camp counselors were extremely supportive when i told them i was no longer a Christian. You hear all these bad things about Christian camp, but I had an absolutely wonderful experience.
It was tough on my mom, but she still loves me and i knew she wouldn't like kick me out or anything, i knew it was safe.
I really have been blessed in these regards.
"taste and see that the Lord is good" .... I've been tasting for 40 years and it's not tasting good anymore. I've asked God to show himself to me too and nothing. I have a chronic pain that is very minor, it isn't all that annoying and there is no reason God couldn't heal it. Doctors don't know what it is, but God should know right? It should be really easy for him to cure me right?. I've been asking for him to do that by the end of 2017 without medical intervention as a sign to me. I don't expect anything to happen.
Square Peg -
Jesus speaking: Matthew 21:22 If you have faith, you will receive whatever you pray for.
You know that this is not true though. Christians pray with faith for things that they will never receive on a daily basis. Can I ask why you would give God until the end of 2017 to heal you? Don't you believe that God, being omnipotent, could do it now?
@@jamesmac357 Your god allows uncountable, indescribable horrors in this world just because people don't believe in them? Sounds more like the devil to me. I can see by all the stock dogma you're dribbling that you're thoroughly indoctrinated and can't think for yourself.
As an ex-Muslim I'm glad to see you starting to directly talk about Islam in your videos, which would make them more relevant and relatable to people I share them with.
I want to give more focus to Islam in my work. Because my videos have essentially been responses to the comments that come my way - for instance, me and my brother made a piece on Pascal's wager when it was coming up all the time in our threads - Islam hasn't featured predominantly, although I've still tried to mention it to keep it in the mix. As I'm having exchanges with an increasing number of ex-muslim brothers and sisters, it's organically becoming part of my work.
+TheraminTrees You should get a twitter account if you don't have one. Excellent way to share and spread videos.
+TheraminTrees Glad you are looking to focus more on Islam. The disdain for doubt is endemic within Islam. It is quite depressing.
The psychology is always the same.
Welcome to the other side! :D
12:13 When I became a teenager, my otherwise atheist mother started getting me and my brothers to "thank the universe" each time we ate a meal she prepared. It was rather bizarre and went on for about a month or two. One evening, when she asked again for us to thank the universe, my younger brother turned to her and went "thank you for dinner, mum".
I think your mother needed some therapy or something
@@Dock284Why? It sounds as though she was merely trying to create an alternative tradition to saying Grace. And it makes a certain amount of sense... everything that happens is caused by everything else... hence thanking the universe rather than a single person. We sing songs, tell stories, create art, put lights on Christmas trees, wish people a Happy New Year, and all manner of other traditions, some more common than others. Thanking the universe doesn't sound especially outlandish in comparison and certainly wouldn't imply any particular need for therapy :)
I guess the boy preferred just to thank his mother instead and there's nothing to suggest that she threw a fit over it so... Sounds like a non-issue to me :)
Thats deism, not atheism.
@@DanaTheInsane I haven't talked to my mum in some years due to abuse but whenever asked she would be pretty firm in saying she didn't believe in a god or magic or spirituality. She was raised Catholic however, and would make a show of religious reverence in certain areas, whether it was out of guilt or respect I was never sure. She's a mixed and volatile bag overall is what I will say.
I was punished for doubt by my parents. It took me well into adulthood to realize how much Christianity played a part in that. Let me be clear: it is absolutely possible for Christianity to be followed to the letter AND still lose your kids to the state. When that day came in my life, I was about 14 years old, and it felt like a RESCUE. I was sent to a school up north as a ward of the state. I had been labeled a "chronic runaway." I was being "punished" and sent to live with some kinda scary/fun kids... Looking back, I realize now it was a reform school. I remember being told for a year and a half that my parents shoulda been there, not me, but I LOVED IT. I cried when they sent me back home. (The state can't always rescue you forever if parents eventually comply with mandatory counseling.) "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is an ABUSIVE phrase. Some of the most UNholy words ever uttered.
Also, I want to make clear: there is NO AGE OF REASON in a human lifetime. We all make mistakes at ANY AGE, and there is no cut off point that suddenly makes anyone understand morality the way Jesus wants. You CANNOT blame the kid. No one in their right mind blames a child for being abused. If anyone ever does it to you, it's NOT TRUE.
I went to Catholic school when I was in first grade before my parents went full fundamentalist. I remember a nun teaching my class saying, "Always obey your parents," and I asked "what if your parents tell you to do something wrong?" She told me "they won't." lol, just like that, they simply won't. You're never too young to have a mind-shattering moment.
I'm confused. The way you wrote your comment suggests that the *state* punished you for doubt: "... lose your kids to the state. When that day came in my life, I was about 14 years old, and it felt like a RESCUE. I was sent to a school up north as a ward of the state. I had been labeled a "chronic runaway." I was being "punished"
Anyway, governments are not your saviours. I was kept prisoner in a hospital funded by the UK government for over 2 years recently basically for thinking abnormally. While I was there, the drugs that I was forced to take were increased because a doctor saw me talking to myself! There were also many physical abuses.
@@jacobscrackers98 I'm sorry to confuse you. I'm not an author, and my writing skills probably aren't great. I had at least hoped the meaning would survive, but alas... I think you had the opposite happen. Maybe the govt took you from safety and put you into danger? I was taken from danger and put into safety. Anything taken to extremes if can be highly abusive, even something as mundane as government. What you went through sounds like a terrifying experience. I hope you aren't in a place like that ever again. I hope both of us can be safe now.
@@maxcovfefe Jacob was referring to a Mental Hospital.
I have a friend who, when I expressed doubts to her and questions about my Christian faith, scolded me that I wasn't going to be satisfied with any answer and that I wasn't just "trusting God." I was taken aback and hurt and couldn't understand why wanting a legitimate answer was a bad thing.
thats bc she had a very complicated way of saying: I HAVE NO ANSWER FOR YOU, AND IM UPSET ABOUT IT.
Cheers
Year 2 of being atheist. Realize I still afraid of doubts. Crazy how religious teaching linger on us years after leaving it.
How do you feel now
Because u know it’s so silly that nothing created everything
@@CynicalDudeNo, because the nature of religious indoctrination is abusive. Judging from your comment, you know nothing about evolutionary or life science. And you assume all athiests believe evolution.
I have been out of my religious upbringing and atheist for almost a decade now. But having had these things impressed upon me from before I could even speak has left me still finding pieces of ideology that I don't agree with stuck inside me.
If you were trained from birth (or really any vulnerable period) to be a specific thing, there might always be an impulse to default to being that thing, acting or thinking that way. But we are each our own person, with the ability to make decisions and decide things for ourselves.
You know what you believe, and regardless of other opinions, the important thing is that it sits right with you. You are the one who has to live with yourself.
"To find yourself, think for yourself."
I'm almost in high school (8th grade) and I've been having doubts about my religion. I'm currently living in a Muslim household, and being Muslim is all I've ever really been. When I took that away, I felt like a nobody, and went through this little stage of depression. My appetite diminished, and I felt like ending my life.
I have more of a deistic mentality rather than a Islamic one as of now, and I feel a little freer. I still have this spontaneous fear of hell every once in a while, and even that is deteriorating because I watched your _Departure of theism_ video. I know I'm 7 years late, but thank you for taking the time to voice logic and reason into your content. 🙂
Hey man, hope he is helping you. Departing from a faith, any it may be, is a hard road, and you may feel alone,but remember, there's always someone, somewhere walking this road with you
I hope you're doing well. You are not a religion, you are a person, and you can have a strong, beautiful and fulfilling identity outside of that. I wish you the best!
By the way, there is an ex-muslim creator who could help you: Apostate Aladdin. He has a lot of helpful videos for people leaving islam
I'm with you man. I've been walking that plank since I was 10. I just finished high school, you're a strong guy, and let me tell you, you are worth it, you are worth more than any gold deposit on this Earth, that is most valuable, I hope you can treasure your life, it is all we have as which we can see.
5:34 Love the fact that "hells as yet unimagined" includes "William Shatner's Shakespeare monologues."
oh fuck not william shatner
@@red2theelectricboogaloo961 my one true weakness!!!
That's the one telling the truth.
Doubt and rebelliousness are the ways out of being confined by systemised religiousness and control that is perpetuated and encouraged by some unethical religious leadership with their own agendas, under the guise of providing experiences that are beneficial, but are not relative to the person's functioning and health and which results in further psychological damage being inflicted on an already desensitised person in some cases.Questioning can provide information and also an exit point.
@@jacquelynemichael419 It is perpetrated by ALL religious leadership. If a leader deviates from this course, they are run out of the org in short order.
that red and yellow analogy explains exactlyy how ive always felt about people being angry with nonbelievers "refusing proof" when said proof always is coming from everything BUT the source. And why would God allow us to waste time arguing over whether he exists or said x y and z versus giving us all a fair start with a proper introduction? Then it would properly be an act of "free will" to obey or not. This channel simply articulates every thought I couldn't myself.
If it can't be questioned it shouldn't be followed.
Deep
i have religiously indoctrinated people in my life, they are like a dependent functioning addict, the difference is that this kind of addict does not only inject poison into their own bodies but onto others. i truly respect your work
Thanks. Yep, as I once commented in an old video on death, unlike drug addiction, in religion everyone else is required to shoot up too, in order to sustain the individual's high.
@@TheraminTrees i value your professional work. Thank you for responding, i will try on this trial and tribulation times to promote our free exersise of responsible freedom beeing my future or your channel and others too
i do love how you cover quite grim topics yet manage to always end on a positive and hopeful note
That's valuable feedback for me. Thank you.
TheraminTrees
I've been a subscriber for quite a while and I think that your content is unique among the atheists I follow in that you seem genuinely dedicated to not allowing cynicism to dominate these very important discussions. I enjoy it. ^^
If he would talk about what is left after religion, they wouldn't have a happy note either. Cosmic nihilism is what remains. A sad but true philosophy surrending the position of humans in the universe and time.
@@EdgieAlias It's a bit extreme to think there are only 2 options: blind faith or cosmic nihilism.
@@peterkiss1204 The alternative to dogma is acknowledging that we are VERY insignificant in scale of the universe. Nihilism doesn't mean depression, I think that's something I've changed my mind about. Nihilism means you should be free to express yourself however you want (as long as you aren't causing needless harm) because nothing means anything, so you shouldn't care if people think your expression isn't what we arbitrarily define as normal. You want to be a furry? Go for it. You want to exist as a trans person? That shouldn't even be a debate.
Nihilism is extremely liberating.
I lost it with "does anyone think god gave them the pedophiles they needed?"
YES! That is SO brilliant!
In the eyes of the Catholic church - yes. Those priests were what the children needed.
They gonna rebut with "no, the devil gave it" 😭 The devil is their scapegoat.
@@erika.sGod be loving those children who completely lack agency due to being in their development phase by putting satan controlled adults in their life to oppress and control them in permanently psychologically scarring ways, and then send those kids into heaven after a lifetime of devotion and sacrifice of their minds and livelihoods where they’ll either live eternally tortured by those memories of God’s allowance or be lobotomised with those memories blotted out to not inconvenience their pleasure with doubt.
@@erika.s To which I always have to think "but if God is all-powerful and all-knowing, then that intrinsically means he allowed it to happen regardless of the devil's involvement or not."
Cue mysterious ways.
Again, this is some of the best content on youtube - not just in content, but in presentation.
Theramin and his brother are criminally undersubbed and underviewed. IMO these videos should by all rights have millions of views, not a handful of thousands.
Spread the word by recommending the channel to a friend.
What’s his brothers channel?
? No qualiasoup
The friends have to be at least agnostic to enjoy this
Too bad I have like, none outside the web
i agree, though he could've picked more common english than advanced ones. my english is way better than my peers, and i still have to pause the video & consult oxforddictionaries multiple times. imagine how harder it would be for others like my peers
@@anime.soundtracks This is fair criticism I think - but it is always a trade-off between using very precise language and using easy to understand language. It can be hard to discuss complex topics with everyday words.
But it is also probably a little bit because highly educated people like to use complex words. I am guilty of this sometimes also. The trick is to know when you can use a simple word and not lose anything of what you meant to say. This is an art-form for professional writers I think. Easy to say, but hard to master. I don't think it is overly complex on purpose.
I like to think of it like an opportunity to learn more words. A wide vocabulary (words you can easily use) is strongly connected to how flexible your brain is in general (which is something you can practice), plus it's nice to be able to know how to write something very precisely when you need to :)
PS: Your English is much better than most native speakers, and very close to perfect. For me it is a secondary language also, and I take some pride in that :)
Timestamp 13:40 - I once went to a Church where one of the leaders had been abused as a child, and she did make this argument all the time. It was awful to watch this woman talking about how she loved the God who had planned this for her.
How terrible.
Thank you so much for commenting this, this helped something click in my brain. Even now, I sometimes find myself saying things like "I am the person I am because of [the abuse I was subjected to for 25 years]" (implying a sort of deeper purpose to why I was abused)
NO. I am who I am today IN SPITE OF the abuse I was subjected to for 25 years. My abusers deserve no credit for my victories of overcoming trauma that they caused, they deserve no praise for my personal growth which they hindered and prohibited for years.
They abused me and it was fucked up, there was no meaning in such horrific behaviour. I escaped and am continuously overcoming its effects on my life and psychology, the credit of which I am due.
RELIGIOUS PEOPLE: "Why do you doubt?"
ME: "Because, God gave me a brain to doubt things which I can't see, hear, touch, smell and taste. If you're angry at me for doubting...then, be angry at God for making me doubt."
Watch these religious folks turn around & shame you by saying the devil is in your head or you’re possessed by the devil or some bs. There is no winning with religious folks, they have excuses for EVERYTHING
@@Cherry-kc8dm And, when YOU say the devil might be in THEIR heads...they lose their minds. They seem to be able to "dish it," but, they just can't take it.
I will just tell them there is no scientific model that proves God. And than I will prove that down to the laws of thermodynamics and quantum superposition. I will tell them how we are too primitive to understand the laws of nature as of our current civilization intellectual knowledge. I will tell them that they believe in the extraordinary, the ungezeifer.
Some christians will say doubt is good and natural and refer to their usual Q&A books. 2000 years of apologetics is hard to refute for a layman.
They will also say that if God reveals himself to end the doubt of his existence then faith wouldn't be needed anymore. Faith is a virtue but obedience isn't because it ends the free will. For some reason knowing didn't hurt the people in the old testament who "actually" talked to God.
When someone says that knowledge of Yahweh would remove our free will (a common argument I hear), I ask them if they believe in Satan. /:)
John Harvey : Can you explain that argument a bit more?
Jiří Havel Satan is, according to their mythos, an angel (a being with extensive knowledge and personal experience of their god) who rebelled and so must have had free will, so leaving no room for humans to doubt the existence of a god would not remove our ability to exercise our free will to tell that god to fuck off.
thanks
@@jamesmac357 Why can't he stop judging people? I thought he's supposed to be all-mighty, so he should be able to change his behavior. Are there other gods, who aren't holy or perfect, and if not, why add these attributes as to look like to seperate from other gods? And wasn't he supposed to be a caring and good god, not a god full of revenge? Because "never forgives and never forgets" doesn't sound that all-loving, more like a psychopath.
"doubt can sometimes put us in a spin but lack of doubt leaves us vulnerable to the spin of others"
Wonderful video Theramin Trees. You have no idea how refreshing it is to watch these videos in an extremely religious community that does everything it can to suppress doubt.
*cough cough* utah *cough cough*
Don't forget most of the islamic countries. Like pakistan.
MIND-EMULATOR-9000, how often I have sat in fast and testimony meeting listening to people say they know the Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Now that I'm out, I find it hard to understand how I ever believed anything so ridiculous. But I have gotten absolutely nowhere talking to my family about such things.
😉😁I hear you.
@@exmormonroverpaula2319Hearing toddlers prompted to say, "I know the church is true!" during F&T meeting was my first shelf item in my tweens.
Don’t know if you’ll see this but your videos have been crucial to my recovery from religious trauma more than you’ll ever know, thank you for everything. ❤️
Unfortunately, many of those who are not skeptics, those who do not doubt will take a pass on watching this video. It's too bad that a video such as this cannot be shown in schools because it would challenge parents' authority to indoctrinate their children.
That is exactly what I too was thinking around half way through.
It would be bad enough here in the UK, quite how it would go over in parts of America I could only begin to imagine.
Maybe lynching parties of irate parents? But certainly fearing for one's job would be realistic in some cases.
Thinking for oneself doesn't appear to be too popular in far too many "circles".
the problem I have is that I have become increasingly doubtful over the years whilst my partner remains a believer (although I suspect they have their own doubts) yet they want to carry on this tradition (with the coercion of their parents) to follow blindly without doubt and indoctrinate my children. I suspect I may have a major falling out or even split if my doubt becomes clear as it may do as I don't want my children to go to religious schools and have their inquisitive minds halted, as these institutions have the capacity to indoctrinate rather than teach. my kids are already sceptical but I fear my in laws (and unwavering support from my partner) may overwhelm their young minds.
Bonobo Handshake
Something you may want to consider as an alternative to leaving your partner is to teach them briefly about a number of different religions/creation myths that have occurred over the years, what areas of the world in which those religions originated and so on. This way you don't have to say that your partner's beliefs are wrong but your children will see that they can choose from many or choose to accept none at all, as you have done. Good luck.
1140Cecile thankyou, I am glad that despite my children having close contact with overtly religious grandparents who look after them and are very influential (they look after them whilst I am at work), my little boy still feels comfortable to talk to me and has the sense to ask me about "miracles" which he already doubts, I simply say: some people believe in X and some in Y and there is people who believe in Z.
As a 5 year old I find it amazing that despite me NOT talking to him about creation and evolution, he still came to me to confess his doubt for the things his mother and grandparents are trying to teach him. Im not gonna lie, when he told me "god is not real, how the hell does eve come from adams rib" I had a sigh of relief, so it does give me a little peace of mind.
Bonobo Handshake
It sounds to me like you're already taking the best approach and that things should work out fine.
Seriously an amazing topic covered in this video. In my world view, the greatest "sin" of religion is it's killing of curiosity, and punishing doubt is one of the biggest tools in that arsenal.
"If he existed, he would be absolutely accountable." Brilliant logic. I wrote down the whole concept of the clergy's power over the common man, especially young boys. Thank you so much.
I was introduced to this channel one night maybe 3 or 4 years ago when my older sibling was trying to explain why they didn't believe in a god. At the time I was very much following what everyone around me believed and said without question. Now I'm desperately trying to deconstruct my former beliefs.
since I was 4 years old, I've been terrified that I didn't have enough faith. somehow I still have this fear. watching these videos is giving me some peace of mind, so thank you.
The darker side of religion in a psychological and logical perspective. That explains so much, thanks for the info, very well-said
You know i always wanted to know the psychology behind religion.
I mean there has to be, it almost seems taboo to put psychology and religion in the same sentence to believers.
When i was a believer its something i never wanted to bring up or think for myself, because i never wanted to face the facts that maybe i got manipulated again... Its healing to me that you can say its a humanly thing to be this way, that puts immense pressure off my life.
And i just feel like crying because how unnecessarily hard ive been on myself all these years...
Thank you TT
wow, Theramin really laying the smackdown this episode. ive honestly never heard better examples, counterarguments, and just plain logic from anyone
This video was published on my 64th birthday. I am a new subscriber and I must say I find your videos very well done and extremely inspiring. I came out of religion in the early 1980s, way before the internet and TH-cam. It has been so great being able to access videos such as these since people like you have been putting them online. Thank you for doing this and I hope you are well.
When you said does god give people the pedophiles they needed? you really had me there! also i would like to deeply thank you for sharing your analysis on religion, it really helped me notice all the manipulation that comes from it, and i feel like thanks to leaving Christianity i made a first step into healing my wounds and thinking for myself, granted i can still get swayed by ideas if im not careful but my experience with religious indoctrination has at least taught me about how effective and dangerous ideas can be for your perception of life so i will always remember that lesson, and as always i would like to encourage you to keep posting these kinds of videos because they really do help.
Though a few of the other skulls desperately tried, my parental units were not the ones trying to put me in a religious trap. my father was quite mindful of many spiritualities, my mother a lifelong Christian. I have had multiple millennia of freedom to explore my mind, and I found long ago that Sikhs and I agree in significant ways. Life is situation so it must be viewed with all three eyes open. Keep kindness and an open door to the mind. Love your videos, TheraminTrees. You are a life-changing exceptional creature.
I feel like this can still apply to families where belief in the family unit without doubt or question is part of the game.
What i love about this channel is how he words stuff!
He uses "Big words" in a way that just clicks into Understanding for me!
And English isn't even my first language!
This year has been a lot. I had already stopped going to church years ago but a few months ago I decided I was really done with it all. I also discovered (or rather confirmed a thought that was too scary to investigate when I first observed this as a child) that my parent’s idea of “love” is nothing near what I needed as a child or even as an adult, and that they have some serious narcissistic traits. I’ve spent most of my life internally tearing myself apart for my inadequacy, always assuming I was the problem.
I’m still kind of processing it all but I’m looking forward to the increased mental real estate I’m going to have once I fully disconnect from my indoctrination and I don’t have someone gaslighting me all the time.
I appreciate your (and your brother’s) channels a lot. If not for TH-cam atheists I might have sat stale in my life for a lot longer. Thank you 🙏🏻
Huh, you don't usually see specific examples from Islam like this. Usually you stick to Christianity, so it's interesting to see you branching out. I like the use of different perspectives like this.
Also, the example with six priests talking about visions of hell and is talking about "William Shatner's Shakespeare Monologues" made me laugh.
Serious, I almost spit my drink out at the Shatner reference.
Shatner is a little unusual...
The humor is important. It disinflates the pretended importance of religious lies, loosens their grip on one's psyche...
Really good explanation of how religions work. Enjoyable. Thanks for making this!
Good work. People like you reassure me that not everything in this world is lost, that there's still a possibility for a bright future for humanity.
The vent thing hit me real hard!!
You sound like a wonderful person to talk to, thank you for your videos.
Logic is timeless, and your takedown in this video was SO SATISFYING!! You're amazing, Theramin!
Worth watching over again multiple times. I don’t watch them back to back but I do watch his videos over again at different times. Literal gold in defending yourself against baseless claims against you.
I feel like crying. You are putting into words many of the thoughts that I have been struggling to grasp and understand for a very long time. I guess listening to 4 of your videos in a row while at work isn't the best idea for me emotionally, but I can't keep living in this area of uncertainty. Thanks again for your videos.
If you're finding them helpful, I'm pleased.
Yes I am, but damn this is hard. I know your experience wasn't easy when you were a teenager, but I'd 40 and going through this. I've had so much more time with it and have only begun questioning over the past few years. I wish I could have gone through this when I was younger.
Square Peg - I was about 37. No matter the age though, it's always a good time to let go of this foolishness and live life to the fullest without the weight of any god around one's neck.
TheraminTrees - You never cease to amaze me! Thank you for what you do.
Square Peg, I would echo Child Boo's comment. I've previously compared the experience of losing my indoctrinated religion to throwing a rock at a spider's web - the devastating loss of connections was immobilising. Then I realised it was more like demolishing a derelict building - something unsafe to live in. Starting over seemed daunting - but gave me the opportunity to build with safer, more robust materials.
Thanks Child Boo!
Thank you for these videos. I've never had my thoughts so plainly expressed before like this. It's amazing to know my reasons for leaving church really have been valid all this time, and now, I can clearly explain why they are
Wow, this video is brilliant, I loved the ‘vent’ versus ‘PA system’.
As always, really good work, appreciate it.
I come from a family, in which close, and distant members of this family, are very religious. Doubt is very supressed, and dismissed with answers such like "god is all knowing, knows more than you do, so don't expect to understand him and his plans" "he knows better" "that probably is a part of his plan" and so on.
I really can't get to them, they just straight out ignore all logic when it comes to religion.
I tried to show them that they are making a claim, which cannot be dismissed, if something happens the way that they were praying, they say god helped achieve that, but in a situation when their prayers aren't fulfilled, they say that "he knows better" line.
When I explain them that it is an really dishonest approach, they can't grasp it. To them it's perfectly logical and fine.
I just really don't know how to make them see that this type of thinking is faulty. Do you have any idea how I can reason with them?
I wouldn't have a problem with that, but they are indoctrinating my brother and sister, actively discouraging them from thinking, it just makes me really sad when looking at it.
Right before I moved out, my sister came to me and expressed some doubts about her belief. I told her that she should start thinking for herself, that she should examine both sides of the argument, not just listen to priests and believers. Recently I made a visit for summer, probably she spoke to my parents or grandmother, and they discouraged her from further pursuing her doubts.
Again, these words express my experience--"too often it is not a lack of trust, but too much". I came to say, "My problem was not lack of loyalty, but too much", and it stole years of my life with pain, disability and social censure (which is defined as "love"-which of course was my fault, because their solutions only made me more ill, of course because I'm evil and unrepentant --and around and around. If one gets frustrated or emotional about it, the emotion itself is condemned as proof of one's weakness and bad attitude. Shall a human being NOT be allowed to grieve, or be angry (Bible does not forbid that, amazingly, though Christians find a way). It is somehow unspiritual to feel. We OUGHT to have a bad attitude about some things.
Your words express the 'gaslighting' experiences many of us share - we're told all other roads lead to 'wrong'; all pain is self-induced, never inflicted by the corrupt ideology; all negative emotions and complaints spring from childish rebellion, never from legitimate grievance. It's a hall of distorting mirrors. Once we find a patch of reality, where the reflections are honest and true, we can begin to see just how distorting that hall of mirrors was.
The production value on your videos is unbelievable. There are few channels that I regularly watch, and yours will be one of them as your videos are extremely well done. Thank you for the hard work you do.
I do believe this is one of your best videos, if not the best one. Precise and necessary appointments, thanks
This video (as with all of your others I’ve seen) is so well done, I’m just amazed with your ability to put it together in such a way that seems to hit every point needed, and hits those points in such a way that brings it home as well as anybody could possibly think to do it. So very much appreciated, and can’t wait to direct my kids to your videos as they grow a little older. Thank you so much for doing this.
If there is a god I don't see why we think earth or the human race is so particularly important to him with the knowledge we have now of how vast the universe is. It seems like hubris almost to me for us to think that we are the most important creation in the universe. Just looking up at the sky at night, an experience available to even the most lumpen among us, gives you the exact opposite impression - that we are just a tiny dot in a sea of them.
Indeed. We are just a tiny dot in a sea of them!
I desagree, when you find an dimond in the middle of the sand beach you dont say ohh thist rare material its meaningles comparing with the tons of minerals acumulated by the waters, the oposite hapends you get exited, you investigate the material and watch its rare properties, the same for planet earth, we are special , life its more rare than anything on the universe, we think the rocks dont, we where criated by Gods image, the supernovas didn't , you are infinitly more precios than all the stardust you would get in the universe, and that is what makes us important to God , you dont see your importance? See it again because is that kind of thought that ends up in iuseles suicide, by thinking you are no better than a bag of dust, people dont see an reason for pain, and jst want it to end right in the moment, and that is wrong.
You are not an acident.
@@1MDA Horrible analogy.
God can literally clone humans, if we could clone diamonds we wouldn't bother getting new ones.
@@1MDA the earth and all its inhabitants will be swallowed up by a red giant. It seems more likely to think that we were an accident
In that context it's interesting to see how the alleged "Creator of the Universe" talks about the stars in Genesis. They're just "little lights" in the sky. Easy to understand if the Bible was just written by bronze age men based on what they could see. Not so easy to understand if those are the words of the all-knowing Creator of the universe. And in Revelation a big star even falls to earth "destroying one third of the rivers on earth." in the proces. Yeah. At least!
This is anti-apologetic poetry.
What does that mean?
@@ee5142 I just think this video is quite poetic, even though it's about a rather academic topic.
the use of difficult words makes it harder to understand though.
@@anime.soundtracks Perhaps, but poetry doesn't always have to be understood to be enjoyed.
And you can always look at this as an opportunity to learn cool new words. :)
I loved his video where he was explaining how he left Theism when he was gliding through all the fallacious arguments (represented as doors)
I'm so glad I gave myself the grace to doubt my religious beliefs. It was what allowed me to investigate the truth claims better and to realize it wasn't what it claimed to be.
I have no 'doubt' that this is by far the most convincing and comforting TH-cam channel.I feel happy I found this channel as well I am sad that it took me so long to find it, but better late than never. It has been so far the best channel that I have subscribed.
Thank You for making truly awesome videos.
Thank you. I'm delighted if you've found the work useful.
Just watched 'grooming minds', thought the wordless opening cinematic was very evocative of the central concept.
Moved to this one, expectations high for that cinematic. When I realized how the text was moving, in an old, familiar motion, when I realized what was going to happen... it was quite affecting. But the ending one was even better.
Thank you for continuing to make these.
I found the analogy of the red door and yellow door amusing, as it reminded me of a place I used to work. The fire exit was through doors that led to the "Shiny Hallways" They were literally a shiny hallways. The walls, floors and ceilings were shiny and they were very well lit, and yet, one of the things we learned when we went through training, is that people will refuse to use the emergency exits unless you are very clear that, "yes, the is an emergency and it's okay to go through this door".
All of your videos are amazing, I come back to them frequently to help me unearth further unhealthy thinking patterns. My deepest thanks for all of your hard work!
Theramin Trees videos ALWAYS take precedence in my subscription feed.
a sleeping floating toddler is here to make my day again
Came across your channel a couple of days ago and it’s all I’ve been watching since. This is easily the best content on this platform. You are an absolute beast when it comes to these topics. I’ve had doubts about Islam for about a year and a half now, and after watching your videos, I wonder how I haven’t came across these blatant flaws and immoralities all across this religion (and organized religion as a whole). The way you articulate your points is so provocative, coherent, and just very refreshing. Thank you so much for this amazing work
This is so incredibly relevant to Mormonism, it's almost like you wrote it as a direct rebuttal.
Most anticipated video notification.... Finally...
I just finished watching all of your videos. It has been very reassuring and engaging to hear your arguments, putting logic to things I've taken for granted and things I ignored. I'm happy that I'll forever have access to this invaluable resource
A ThermainTrees video? Fewer videos are so welcome on my feed as yours. Thank you for all your hard work!
Why, thank you - glad you enjoyed.
I am watching this and my heart is beating so hard in my chest and tears are brimming in my eyes. I hate, hate, hate how my faith ( Islam) feels so unbearably huge and heavy yet hollow and meaningless. I wish things were easier.
I'm sorry to hear you are struggling. Please look after yourself and try your best to gain independence, just in case you ever feel the need to escape from your community. Remember there are others who have been through similar difficulties and made it out the other side, hard though it can be at first. Good luck :)
Every day I wake up grateful for being an atheist and having atheist parents. As someone with OCD, I cannot imagine being religious. Funny enough, I had a sort of religious- or higher power- related stage at some point, and that was severe enough. I don't need to genuinely believe that shit, religion would be so detrimental with this combo
I have OCD, Tourettes, ASD among other, as i child i had OCD religious obsession (since i was inducted into the church w/o consent).
It was terrible yes.
My OCD (spectrum stuff) never left, and its still horrible, but i dont have religious obsessions anymore.
Now its primarily harm ocd and tics
Yeah, this definitely applies to my family dynamic. Catholic background, but allowed to believe whatever I wanted. However I still feel like all of what you are saying applies as I was never allowed to question or doubt my mom's abilities and would gaslight me into a docile people pleaser with no consideration for myself.
Same here.
But not my mum or dad, it is my boss.
Thanks for coming back with perfect quality videos. Well done once more.
Cheers
I was never religious but having been around Christians I felt gaslighted and demanded that I was not good enough and not worthy of a good life. I developed self-condemnation. I hated religion.
You are a fantastic blast of sanity and compassion. Distressing but unfortunately inevitable that you get hate messages: I recently asked some simple questions on a fundamentalist website and received sneering evasions and a barely concealed aggression while they were justifying killing children in the OT. (GotQuestions if you fancy a go). As a composer I appreciate your theramin and excellent music. I watch your videos again and again. The reviewers who push for these to be shown in schools is spot on.
Cheers. Sad isn't it that some dogmas debase folks to the point that they defend atrocities like killing children - and call it 'love'. But heartening that lots of folks say it was reading those kinds of vile scriptures that helped to prod them awake.
Excellent information. Speaking as a former Mormon and mainstream Christian, spot on.
Made me think about doubts relationship to trust. Given that trust builds based on a historical pattern of integrity, there must be times when we doubt so we can allow trust to grow. Doubt is essentially a precursor to trust. Without doubt, real trust is impossible.
The trustee needs to recognise that allowing the potential truster to doubt is important if being trusted is important to the trustee. We can't expect to be trusted without letting others witness our own integrity. The onus is on the trustee to show their integrity, not the potential truster to just go ahead and place trust. Religions that forbid or discourage doubting do not follow this process so trust is impossible. This is where the equivocation between faith and trust comes in.
Love the Ingersoll quote :-D
It's a funny thing. Even watching this vid I still feel the physical and emotional discomfort that came with doubting my faith, a physiological response to the dissonance that is still there even after all these years!
A great piece as always TheraminTrees - thank you for the time and effort you take to draw these ideas together, I always leave your channel feeling a little clearer :-)
Take care, N
I absolute love this. Currently, I'm debating this subject with a loved one. This video sums up what I've been trying to say.
Fortunately, it only took me a night to think it through. I have been having some serious doubts a few months prior, and when I finally realized none of it was real, I accepted it fairly easily. There was a lot of crying though coz I was only 15 at that time and so so scared.
Thanks theramin.
When I found your channel, I was suffering from years of unending pressure to have faith in Islam even from my early years at kindergarten, and when they told me "You must have faith, because if you don't, you will go to hell" I blindly followed WITHOUT thinking about the overwhelming injustice the phrase meant, does that mean if someone of a different religion did something to make everyones life so much better, Allah does not appreciate that and instead cast him to hell?
Of course, I didn't think of this since I was so young when this happened, I never deeply think about it since I couldn't. And the constant "advice" to have gratitude for your parents birthing you with Allah's favor, and that "advice" led me down a hole that started my severe depression (that is hidden from everyone except those who read this) and just so many mental health problems that it's not even worth it to mention here, from kindergarten until 9th grade I was a child indoctrinated into a religion that I never consented to.
After a depressive episode that lasted for 3 weeks, I found this channel and that is where I finally found rescue from this madness of a life I have, I started to think as to why I didn't even get an offer to join Islam, only an indoctrination that told me "it's the only true religion and Allah knows what is best for you. "
If that was true, then why would Allah permitted my family to starve me to death if I didn't pray 5 times in a single day, or how much the word "gratitude" and "respect" get used to protect teachers from abusing their students with absolutely tiring homework and group projects as something that is normal everyday things, or how my beloved friends who belong i other religions will burn in hellfire even though they never did anything sinful enough to warrant something so vile as eternal torment.
Even my mother, who threatened me with going to jail if I didn't do my homework, yet tell me that was all for my own good.
And I have met hypocrites, who told me to have critical thinking is a tool you must have if you want to be an adult, yet punishes anyone with harassment and even guilt-tripping if someone even doubts about anything in Islam.
Even now, after being an apostate from Islam and in hiding, I never truly escaped that guilt I have from my early years.
And that guilt made me tolerate abuse and opression of such simple things as doubts. And that guilt also led me to being weak mentally, example is when I always near tears when I yell at someone who deserved it, or how much others word hurted me without even thinking how much pain their words cause and hides behind reasonings such as "it was only a joke" and "it's just the truth", and their words led me into a suicide attempt which I halted due to my guilt of leaving my family.
But, that guilt made me a better individual who is always helping and forgiving, who always think of what to say to not hurt anyone, to be an individual who knows that hurting someone who doesn't deserve it is not worth it even if it will lead me into success in life.
But this positive part about the guilt could not be a reason for tolerating the tyranny of Islam or any other religions, and those who do is just another one in the rolling wheel of indoctrination and hypocrites.
And that word, "success" is the word that almost everyone around me uses to tolerate and give reasonings at my pain and suffering from school, they used it in words like "if you don't learn now (meaning to tolerate the painful homeworks and projects and sudden evaluations), you will not be successful later in life"
I know that I could tell my disbelief in Islam to those around me, but after some second thoughts I eventually decided that it is not worth it at all, what if they shamed me about it? What if I get kicked from my house just because I abandoned my faith that I never even consented to?
I understand now that my nation (Indonesia) will never tolerate atheism, for if you get out of IsIam, you will be discriminated your whole life.
And even if you revert back, distrust is still in the minds of those around the ones who revert back.
I will never return to Islam, and now all I have to do is run a facade of a religious student until I could escape this country once and for all, and live somewhere without discrimination.
But that will be a long time ahead, and the obstacles are never becoming easier.
I wish you strength for the road ahead.
Miles to go before you sleep.
We are seeing a lot of this in both the Republican and Democratic parties this year: not allowed to show doubt about your party's nominee.
I'm not so sure about doubting the candidates... But question certain issues and you are labelled all sorts of terrible things.
Both the democrats and republicans or the liberals and conservatives. Everything sucks.
@@user-oy8vu3xb2y I get this impulse, I really do, every "side" equally participating in discourse and politics to promote their ideologies. But I came to the realisation that while every side has its idiots, the ideologies themselves and the tactics their adherents systematically employ _are not equal_.
Worse, by saying "everything sucks" and doing nothing, you are actually picking a side, the side of the status quo, and when you do that _who benefits_? Because there are right now, people who benefit immensely from the status quo, and its in their interests to alienate people away from changing it.
If you are reading this, thank you for hearing me out.
@@spinecho609 You make a fair point. Thank you for informing me about this!
3:35
Abraham: how can I strengthen my faith in and dedication to you o’Lord?
Lord: kill some birds for me :)
I honestly believe that you have no idea how good your channel is and how smart you really are.
I leave this comment to boost your place in the TH-cam algorithm.
Woah! I think you've outdone yourself with this one! This can be applied to any deeply-held belief whether religious or not. I watched twice, and I'd LIKE this 20 times if I could!
Welcome back, TT! For me, "doubt" is not a choice - I simply cannot accept a premise as true on someone's say-so. Sure, I may accept it as "tentatively true" if it's a mundane claim from a reliable source, or if the claim has little or no consequence in its acceptance, but beyond that, you better back up what you're saying, or I will simply reject it and your credibility will be reduced, in my eyes.
The more radical and impactful a claim is, the more hard evidence is required to support it.
Yeah man I have seen doubt and atheism or agnosticism as a choice, I didn´t just wake up one day and said "Yeah God is fake because I say so" it just didn´t make any sense to me and I couldn´t look at religion the same way I did as a child, atheism was the only choice that made any semblance of sense in my head
I have experienced much of this manipulation in a religion. They used the very words: receive me, recieve the one who sent me. At the first of my time their, i thought nothing of being corrected by an "older disciple" about any and every issue correction could come from. they would even promise based on Jon 14:15,21 he who keeps the command, I will reveal myself to him. so ultimately i should just trust the correction coming, and god will reveal himself later as to what the correction meant, etc.
Yet this never happened. and the leaders never apologized for pressuring me to receive nonsense. 18 years later there is no understanding about the correction i first received, nor later corrections either. It was all a masquerade
BRILLIANT! Many thanks for this, TT!
I'm sorry to say it's been about a year since I've checked up with your channel. I am very glad to see that you're still producing high quality videos.
I thank you for the service that you've provided for me.
Cheers
we missed you.
Very good job. This comparative work between religions and their outcome, in this case ("punishing doubt" and "group cohesion") could help to explain the nature of our social behavior to maintain such united and impermeable groups.
I'm in the US. I hope you have a new video coming soon. I really need a dose of sanity. It's been a rough week & I'm sure the next 4 years won't be much better. :\
As they say, 'I feel you'. Hope things pick up. As for the next video, it's due out in the next two days.
I'm also in the U.S., and we STILL need a dose of sanity!
Four years later, shit just got crazier 😰
@@anelisajustanelisa236 You think losing Donald Trump for Joe Biden is crazier? Wow, are you on the wrong channel.
1.) Person of divinity: “How dare you question God!”
2.) Why would an omniscient God be afraid of mere questions? I love questions from my child. I welcome them. I encourage them. I do not suppress them. I love my child’s questions, and all their “flaws”.
3.) Does this make me more a “God” than the person of divinity?
4.) Trust me. You surely do not want to worship me as a “God”, as much I surely do not want to worship a scared “God”.
5.) Do you have any questions?
punishing at 0:06 : i like ya cut g
I made a decision, on my mother's bedroom floor one day, to help her.
True.
Decades later and half-way through life, I'm still understanding the consequences.
Blue.
My opinions were hers, my perceptions hers, my worries, also hers.
Renew.
Learning to think for myself, my own thoughts gleaned from psychology, philosophy and humanitarianism.
Accrue.
Boundaries and limitations provide meaning and relevance: my esteem and confidence grow.
Imbue.
Thank-you TheraminTrees, yet again, for providing logical and objective reference points.
I'm a former zealous evangelical, and this channel has become my new "church" lol
Excellent content ! Clearly and rationally explained, thoroughly covering many or all relevant points. Thank you for doing such amazing work that will, hopefully, influence many viewers to reassess their beliefs in the light of logic, reason and science.
Today I heard on the radio about people awaiting execution in death row for "disrespect towards god". By punishing non believers, believers show how fragile their faith actually is. How petty their beliefs. Their god wouldn't allow such things, if they existed.
Thank you very much for these videos, Theramintrees! They help clear the mind. They touch me deeply.
May be quite silly of me but I was highly moved by the final animated graphic. Well done with that.
Where the lady walks out at the end? Yeah I thought that was a nice touch too.
I don't think that's silly at all. TheraminTrees is a brilliant thinker who can construct wonderfully compelling arguments, but sometimes I worry that he doesn't get enough credit for those small details in his videos that might not seem like much, but really make the whole thing come together.
Thank You for daring to say what we think but never express..
18:40 i was wearing headphones then jumped when i heard a phone notification in the background in the middle of the night, only to realise that was just your recording lmaooo
Thank you for the upload. Your videos are very high quality and thought provoking.