When I loaded the .69 cal minie balls for a 12 ga. I filled the cavity with a wet toilet paper mush, packed it full. When it dries it's close to the hardness of wood and only weighs a few grains. I only did this to keep the gas seal from being shoved in the cavity since I used a sabot and didn't need the expansion.
My commercial Snider Rifle likes .585 lead round balls shot from trimmed 24 ga. primed red cheddite hulls @50 yds. I had to make a removable front sight so as not to alter the original. My Snider Carbine likes .587 minie bullet with a wood plug in the hollow base shot from trimmed 24 ga, brass hulls. I made test plugs from 3/8" dowels beveled in a 100 year old rotary pencil sharpener and then sawed off to size with an X-ACTO fine toothed saw. They worked, so I found some 3/8" hardwood plugs for covering countersunk wood screws at a hardware store and they worked great as is. The British initially used baked red clay plugs which I thought was very odd. I believe wood plugs were used in Continental Europe which made much more sense to me. Brits also initially used complicated multi metal wound brass foil cartridges because modern spun brass cases were not available at the time.
I use the undersized Burton balls to fireform my brass for the chamber of my rifle, but it is not accurate. The Snider cartridges came in 9 different marks, and that's because they could never really get their bullet design to work right (among other problems like the bases ripping off). The nose of the bullets were originally hollow with a wooden plug, but later they eliminated the wooden plug in favor of just spinning the lead over the nose of the bullet. The reason for this hollow was to to make the bullets fly well in a variety of barrel lengths, which worked because it moved the mass of the bullet to the rim of the bullet (and also had the effect of making them a lot like hollow points!). As you noted, they also had a hollow in the base, which held a clay plug soaked in beeswax. But here's the thing: A hollow base isn't necessary, and wasn't then, either. You only need that for a muzzleloader so you can load without having the fouling jam you up. The chamber on a Snider is 0.63, so you can actually use quite a large bullet. I use a .600 bullet cast with a mold from X-Ring Services (pretty much standard in the hard-corps Snider community). Thee bullets have solid bases, but because they are large enough the process of compression is enough to cause them to take the rifling. I do not use a press for loading, I dip-lube the bullets and simply insert them by hand after fireforming the brass with sub-caliber Burton balls.
Good shooting inspite of the trigger problem. I was surprised how well the lube “plug” worked. At first i was thinking all wax plug, but the lube did the job fairly well. Another fun video!
Peter Dyson & Son Ltd in the UK has original, unissued parts for your Snider, these are basically brand new 140 year old parts and the prices are reasonable.
Be very careful about underside mini ball. I had over expansion and a skirt tear off on the barrel. Paper patching helps but i made a reamer and cut my mould wider.
@@tmcgill2219 Lube is way easier, but its a a big mess in hot weather, seriously, try light weight, not regular spackle. It's easy to use, drys overnight and you can seal up the container for later use.
Thought of that too. I've seen someone 3D print the case itself, basically like a solid spacer with the outside dimensions and case mouth of .577 Snider, which inside narrows down under the bullet in like an upside down bottleneck shape, the 'neck' having a .38 Special casing fixed into it which holds the blackpowder charge and the primer. Using TPA as a material, the case is overall strong enough to handle it just fine, while the thinner part has the right amount of flex to give obturation.
A lot of guys will use a bondo plug in the base of a minie ball. But a .600 round ball in pure lead or a .590-.595 conicals in a British snider. I have a mk2* that someone obviously bought as surplus(I’m in Canada) back in the day and cut the wood down for a handy hunting rifle.
Sometimes with Pritchetts and Minnies it's not that the bullet isn't slugging up and fitting the bore that's the problem. Pure lead, soft bullets will expand to fit the bore. The problem is that the skirt blows out. They'll work with really light loads, but gas pressure will blow past or rupture the skirt at higher pressures. It's kind of counter intuitive but a heavy load, a harder alloy and some type of base plug worked better for me. I could have solved the problem a lot easier with a new mold though.
Possible alternative to the lube filler. toilet paper pulp/puree. water and TP blend or tare and mix to a paste, pack the base, let it dry, or put it in the oven at about 350F-ish till dry, oven has the benefit of annealing the bullets. Taufledermouse uses this technique for hollow base shotgun slugs.
I had an old Trapdoor 45-70 that shot about like that. I tried Cream of Wheat and Super Grex as fillers and groups were a little better. I shot some bullets (I was using hollow base 405s) into snow and they looked pretty bad, with some of the grooves chewed up and small "fins" pulled off the skirt, indicating some roughness in the bore. A buddy recommended I try PuffLon ballistic filler. Groups shrank dramatically, and recovered bullets looked much better. Might be worth it to try on this rifle, once you can get that trigger working right.
@@lurch789 I used 20:1 and 30:1 alloy, as well as Lyman #2 (never pure lead) with the same results in the hollow-base design, and flat-base bullets (my first choice) grouped much worse than the HBs regardless of alloy or diameter. The bore was cleaned to bare metal using JB Bore Paste. Adding the PuffLon took care of most of the issues, which were due to almost invisible pitting just ahead of the chamber. Groups ended up nearly as tight as those from my friend's Uberti reproduction.👍
So when you're driving, the vibrations will mix up the COW and BP. It will burn differently shot to shot. Use a fired case and beer packaging to stamp out some over powder cards. Great job accurizing. Keep it up you'll be competitive one day.
I paper patch my .575 Minies and fill the base with lube and my MkIII Snider shoots amazing! Been shooting it like that for the last 10 years. I am going to try a few made your way though, with no paper patching and see how they work in mine. Thanks for all the excellent videos!
My first muzzleloader was a Zoauve musket repro back in the early. 70s. We were at a muzzleloading shoot at Saratoga battle field . My gunsmith friend won it in a raffle and sold it to me at a good price. As per his instructions i always loaded the base of the mini ball with crisco. It would shoot 3 inch groups at 50 yards if i did my job. Years later i found a smooth bore musket barrel that fit that stock. 20 ga. I now use that as my turkey gun.
Jake I gotta tell ya, I watch all of your videos and enjoy the hell out of them. I load mostly precision smokeless and vintage milsurp but I absolutely plan on going the homemade route for my 45/70 eventually. You've definitely motived and inspired some confidence in me. Keep having fun with it and thank you for sharing🤘
Kia Ora from NZ. We have quiet a few sniders over here. & some regular Enfields. Im not sure if its right but i use candle wax to fill plug in my Enfields. Thatvworks for me. Ive tried making wood plugs . Not much different results. I have a PH 577 mould & a 578 lyman and a Pritchett that has no grooves but a big cavity & paper patch with traceing paper. When done cafuely thats the 1 that works real well. Enjoy your movies very much. Well done and Tatou ( thanks) Nga mihi ( Kind regards) Chris
Always enjoy your content Jake, and it must be always nice getting support by your brother "Longer" and family plus friends... Mine passed away too soon and friends, well, let's just say are non-existent, with the exception with the few I've met recently on YT land and here in n the neighborhood... Keep tearing it up brother and shout out to all your team responsible as well in creating this content behind the scenes... 💯👊😎
I’ve got a custom brass mold that casts a .590 diameter bullet of traditional profile but with a solid base and it’s a good shooter in the later mkIII barrels with 80 grains. The Snyder is like everting else, give it a bullet diameter close to what the barrel needs and a good bump from black powder and it will shoot ok. Now days I prefer to shoot a .50 caliber as it’s so much easier but the .577 served well as a transitional cartridge and no one would want to be hit by one!!
When I was researching these cases/bullets/loads a while back I thought I read the developers went away from the plug because they didn't see a substantial change by not using them. Since I haven't played with my snider for a while It might be time to freshen up on everything again.
Great video, I am going to have to find one for my very own. Sorry about that split, i fixed a 96 Krag Jorgensen with a bit of Stainless and a couple pieces of maple (rock( dowel)
Could also try candle wax that may be stiffer, or a plastic filler like some premium hollowpoints use. Either could be melted easily and poured into the cavity. This stuffs cool as hell and I wish I hadn't gotten out of black powder, might have to get back in.
I tried the exact same thing except with borebutter and 575 cast minie balls. I was still figuring out the sights, but I was having keyholing at 25 yards in my Nepalese snider.
Love the videos and content. I've been playing around with 575 and 578 minie balls in 20ga shotguns. I use hot glue to fill the bases to increase the surface area. So I have to wonder if using some hot glue would help. Regardless keep them coming . Lately I've been playing with and 32ga rifled barrel shotgun. So far my best load is with and 50cal maxi ball and 44cal 300gr cast simi wad cutter using and shot cup as and sabot. I have and old brass 575 minie ball mold I picked up at and gun show and 578 that is and Lyman. Anyone can load and common cartridge and get good results. Then there is people like us who live to tinker with the odd balls.
Forth Armory guy has a video "Making clay plugs for the Enfield Rifled Musket bullet" and he uses a plug making plate that molds 50 at a time. He says he got it from Noe Bullet Molds, but I don't see it on their site, or it's special order. Maybe they will be the right size? There was an article from long ago where a Canadian guy collected a pile of original Kynoch ammo from a basement of an old church. He said it was very accurate and thought it may have been because of the formed hollow nose cavity. {frivilous info to add to your collection}.
Snider is a very good rifle. It's kind of like a Henry Martina single shot. I think there was also a Spencer 1860 lever action single shot version. Frank Wesson 1860 is also something similar, MAYNARD - 1851-1858, Confederate Morse Carbine - 1856-1858 it is very beautiful in appearance and I like her very much. These are all such very nice carbines, rifles, single shot. Especially now in this financial, economic crisis and constantly active civil wars in hybrid, micro nano forms in Europe, America and other places around the world. In terms of appearance, design, I personally like them the most Spencer 1860 lever action single shot version and Confederate Morse Carbine - 1856-1858
Im not sure filling the cavity will flare the skirt as desired. Maybe try some loads with an empty cavity? If the rifle shoots to the right you can adjust the sights maybe. Try using a very soft lead for the bullet. Might help.
@@Everythingblackpowder Hum. Well, most of those old rifles had the sights fixed for a specific load. Find that original load and it might help. I dont know too much about the old sniiders, but i sure enjoy watching you work up good loads for it. I hope you get that trigger worked out. That will probable make a big difference.
Federal Tru-ball shotgun slugs use a plastic ball to swedge the slug bore sized and even unrifled barrels @1600 shoot wonderfull . 5 shots into a 20ga 5 shot box @100 yds that that barrel is all over the place with Anything Else . It simply works .
Think id be looking at craft stores for a plastic jewelery bead that fit in that base or a wooden ball or bead . Something like the Federal Tru-Ball shotgun foster slug uses .
I think I shoot the same round out of my Springfield 63? As a Hydraulics Tech? I agree! the grease Plug should act like a wood Plug with the benny of grease for fouling ease of clean, as grease will not change size compressed under any Pressure? Thanks! I Like It! my Next paper cartridges will have a "DIY BP grease Plug". and this is a paradine shift for my papers, as I pack my DIY Lubed Minie's Bands shirt up with their primers inside each skirt separated from the main charge. DUDE! Those ARE Great Groups! I would Love this Group! at this distance with Any of My BP Muzzle Loaders! Any Size! Great Video! but "I'm" too Lazy to Make My Own Darn Video? and you pulled it off With that Trigger.
Perhaps you can make a mold of the hollow in the base of the bullet, cast a button to go into the base, and hold the button in the base with lube. Use hot glue to make the button.
I never tried to fill in the cavity, but this sounds like a great idea. The only question is what happens with the black powder that touched the lube in the cavity? I guess it will not ignite, so the 80gr load few grains of load will be wasted?
@@Everythingblackpowder right, thanks. I'm just adjusting this scenario to myself. I have a 3-band Enfield and we do shot with the minies at 50 and 100 yards. The problem is my 78" twist is not good enough to keep minie stable at 100. I never tried to load more than 75gr of FFg (and this is not GOEX or Swiss), so I'm scratching my head now increasing the load up to probably uncomfortable value, or do something else. The search of something else lead me into this video, btw. So I'm going to fill in my cavity with lube, but in my case it will be touching the blackpowder for sure. But the idea is great, thanks, I just need to adjust it a bit :)
I shot crisco packed mini balls in my musket with ball against powder for years no problem. I used it deer hunting with the gun loaded for days without getting a shot. No problem when it was shot. I learned that back in the 70s . I am shocked that isnt common knowledge.
yeah not the first time i've heard that about those nepal guns from what i've gathered it's a combo of the rifling pattern and shitty steel letting the rifling get dulled for lack of a better term and it doesn't get a good bight on the slug, the guy who told me that said he need ed to find the gun barrel version of a whetrock to sharpen it!
I usually am bored as hell watching paper but this is interesting. Assuming ya can fix the damn trigger, load development should greatly improve accuracy to a good 200 - 250 yard hunting gun. (for dinosaurs!)
I have a Richmond rifle repro and started with 575 minnie and it key holed periodically. Do you think grease in the round cavity could help here? I did get 578 to try.
Can you maybe do a video trying patched round ball vs miniballs in a Kentucky rifle? I just got a traditions flintlock Kentucky rifle 1:66 twist (my first bp rifle) and they said no sabo or miniballs, patched round balls only. I don't know if you saw it on your new video but I would also love to see black powder 12g in a modern pump action shotgun. For bp you are my trusted source of info. Also if you start a patreon you will be the only person I have considered subscribing to, I'd love to put a few bucks towards some videos for your trouble. Thank you and hope to see some videos soon.
@@Everythingblackpowder Kind of surprised they need the lube to cause expansion, should have more than enough pressure. But if it works, sure is a simple solution to the problem.
That’s what’s odd about the Snider. The same bullets works just fine in my Enfield rifle musket with a hollow base but for some reason the snider needs extra help to get it to expand.
Sorry this is so late to the game but did you slug your bore ? Also would like to see the innards of the lock and what was wrong if it's not too late ?
I wonder if chucking a dowel into a drill and using a file to turn the bevel then cut the little plug. It would be enough for proof of concept. Alternatively 3d printing would solve it too. Or maybe put a piece of tape inside a bullet and fill it with hot glue then pull the plug out. Then install it into a new bullet so its not bonded in the cavity.
If you like to cast your own bullets you might try Mountain Molds. He does not like to build for black powder guns but your in luck since a 577 Nitro Express also takes a .585 bullet, just tell him you need a bullet mold for light loads. He will think your going after wild hogs before trucking off to Africa....LOL
If you want to try a wooden wedge, you could put a dowel in a drill or drill press and either put a vertical tool rest or just use a file to get the angle and then use a hack saw to cut it off. Must be my mistake, because I thought you had a metal lathe, but you must not since you cut casings down with a drill and trim tool. As a machinist myself, I just assume people have access to the same machines that I used to. So many things you can do with a lathe that you should maybe consider buying a small bench top type at least. You would wonder what you did withiut one.
I have a Nepalese third pattern Bess that has the same lock issue. It's fuckin infuriating. I'm a gunsmith and I can't get the damn thing to work. I got that gun probably 3 years ago and completely restored it but I've never fired it thanks to that wonky ass lock.
Cool stuff. Had an 1866 snyder enfield but didn't feel like dealing with the corrosive stuff so i just substituted it with 60 grains of imr 4064 behind those.585 minié balls. Sadly the gun exploded, pretty sure it had a faulty barrel or something. Oh well, got another one thats in better shape hopefully it goes better !
The Snider-Enfield: Ammunition Reloading Part 1 and 2 th-cam.com/video/lNgQi4vEDXM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8pCkL9O1ccuOCq29 th-cam.com/video/TAEfDVq8cIQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=NPY3mGyKDIqY3XKD
I assume you the balls are pure lead? How would a 3d printed plug work? There are tapered wood plug cutters as well. Have you tried any smokeless loads for shits & giggles, I noticed you had some A5744 at one point.
The dramatic change in accuracy between the two bullets was quite interesting. I’m more familiar with muzzle-stuffers than Sniders, are your shooting a bullet that is sized to the land diameter or groove diameter of the barrel? If it is groove diameter than bullet expansion into the rifling is irrelevant. I’ve found that when shooting a typical Burton ball, the skirt cavity is too deep and is affecting the bullets center of gravity during flight. This instability results in a larger group size and poi shirt. When you fill the skirt cavity with lube, it does not assist in expansion of the skirt, it is in fact changing the CG of the bullet slightly compared to not filling the skirt. Most if not all of the lube in the skirt cavity remains with the bullet upon exiting the barrel. I’ve found that a shallow truncated cone shaped skirt cavity with thin skirt walls improves the bullet’s accuracy while still providing sufficient expansion to grip the rifling of the barrel. The bullet is cast of pure soft lead as is typical with muzzleloaders.
In addition I typically shoot 45 grains of 3f Swiss in my .58 cal 3 bander and increasing the powder charge with this modified bullet does not change accuracy significantly. That should save your shoulder some hurt.
That’s not how they had it figured in the late 1860s. The original snider round had a hollow base and a hollow point. This was done to keep the bullet stable in flight by keeping the weight of the projectile to the outside of the spinning mass. My Enfield rifle musket shoots these burton bullets just fine with a hollow base, Not the case with the Snider. The Sniders requires something more than the powder to force the bullets to expand. Most folks use a .600 flat based bullet in their Sniders.
Try epoxy to fill the base. The original wood plugs wouldn't have deformed like your lube probably does. Epoxy will be more rigid and would take little effort compared to making wood plugs.
Why did you say it wasn't accurate? It was very accurate. More so than I would have bet on. It shot a very consistent group to the right. Pretty much the definition of accuracy. Precision? Not very. I for one was impressed by the accuracy. I'd hunt out to 200 yards with it for venison. I have a 3030 that doesn't do a hell of a lot better and Ive killed deer at 200 plus. Maybe I missed the point here with your video .
@@Everythingblackpowder I thaught you did but then again yesterday was Sunday and barbecue day with alot of beer. Anyway another great video love your content.
Why don't you just make a neck expander .002 under cast bullet diameter???? Make custom neck sizer .002" under fired neck after firing. Your working brass too much
When I loaded the .69 cal minie balls for a 12 ga. I filled the cavity with a wet toilet paper mush, packed it full. When it dries it's close to the hardness of wood and only weighs a few grains. I only did this to keep the gas seal from being shoved in the cavity since I used a sabot and didn't need the expansion.
Good idea
I used wet paper towels in undersized Pritchett bullets with good results.
Interesting
I watched that video!!
I have learnt more about black powder/ black powder firearms from this channel than any other place. Amen for this informational channel 🙏🏽🙏🏽👆🏽✝️
My commercial Snider Rifle likes .585 lead round balls shot from trimmed 24 ga. primed red cheddite hulls @50 yds. I had to make a removable front sight so as not to alter the original. My Snider Carbine likes .587 minie bullet with a wood plug in the hollow base shot from trimmed 24 ga, brass hulls. I made test plugs from 3/8" dowels beveled in a 100 year old rotary pencil sharpener and then sawed off to size with an X-ACTO fine toothed saw. They worked, so I found some 3/8" hardwood plugs for covering countersunk wood screws at a hardware store and they worked great as is. The British initially used baked red clay plugs which I thought was very odd. I believe wood plugs were used in Continental Europe which made much more sense to me.
Brits also initially used complicated multi metal wound brass foil cartridges because modern spun brass cases were not available at the time.
the hard ware store plugs were my first thought when I watched the video.
Awesome video, I love the rifle and the style of your videos. Seriously, keep it up! Great stuff.
Thank you
Super educational worth the rewatch
I use the undersized Burton balls to fireform my brass for the chamber of my rifle, but it is not accurate. The Snider cartridges came in 9 different marks, and that's because they could never really get their bullet design to work right (among other problems like the bases ripping off). The nose of the bullets were originally hollow with a wooden plug, but later they eliminated the wooden plug in favor of just spinning the lead over the nose of the bullet. The reason for this hollow was to to make the bullets fly well in a variety of barrel lengths, which worked because it moved the mass of the bullet to the rim of the bullet (and also had the effect of making them a lot like hollow points!). As you noted, they also had a hollow in the base, which held a clay plug soaked in beeswax.
But here's the thing: A hollow base isn't necessary, and wasn't then, either. You only need that for a muzzleloader so you can load without having the fouling jam you up. The chamber on a Snider is 0.63, so you can actually use quite a large bullet. I use a .600 bullet cast with a mold from X-Ring Services (pretty much standard in the hard-corps Snider community). Thee bullets have solid bases, but because they are large enough the process of compression is enough to cause them to take the rifling. I do not use a press for loading, I dip-lube the bullets and simply insert them by hand after fireforming the brass with sub-caliber Burton balls.
I’ll probably end up getting that .600 mold from x ring.
Good shooting inspite of the trigger problem. I was surprised how well the lube “plug” worked. At first i was thinking all wax plug, but the lube did the job fairly well. Another fun video!
Thank you
Peter Dyson & Son Ltd in the UK has original, unissued parts for your Snider, these are basically brand new 140 year old parts and the prices are reasonable.
Thank you
Love your channel and the older I get the more I enjoy large caliber sand black powder, having given up on speed and long range.
Love the time between the shot and the report from target. My 45-70's do the same. Thanks for the video!
Thank you
Be very careful about underside mini ball. I had over expansion and a skirt tear off on the barrel. Paper patching helps but i made a reamer and cut my mould wider.
I have used several things for a base filler, lube, wax, paper, bondo. I like spackle. It's a nice combo of easy to use and durable.
Car body Bondo works for me. I may try the lube though, looks much easier.
@@tmcgill2219 Lube is way easier, but its a a big mess in hot weather, seriously, try light weight, not regular spackle. It's easy to use, drys overnight and you can seal up the container for later use.
Really valuable information as always !
Thank you
If you know anyone with a 3d printer, you could try 3d printing the cavity fill piece, should work as well as wood.
Thought of that too.
I've seen someone 3D print the case itself, basically like a solid spacer with the outside dimensions and case mouth of .577 Snider, which inside narrows down under the bullet in like an upside down bottleneck shape, the 'neck' having a .38 Special casing fixed into it which holds the blackpowder charge and the primer. Using TPA as a material, the case is overall strong enough to handle it just fine, while the thinner part has the right amount of flex to give obturation.
A lot of guys will use a bondo plug in the base of a minie ball. But a .600 round ball in pure lead or a .590-.595 conicals in a British snider. I have a mk2* that someone obviously bought as surplus(I’m in Canada) back in the day and cut the wood down for a handy hunting rifle.
Sometimes with Pritchetts and Minnies it's not that the bullet isn't slugging up and fitting the bore that's the problem. Pure lead, soft bullets will expand to fit the bore. The problem is that the skirt blows out. They'll work with really light loads, but gas pressure will blow past or rupture the skirt at higher pressures. It's kind of counter intuitive but a heavy load, a harder alloy and some type of base plug worked better for me. I could have solved the problem a lot easier with a new mold though.
Possible alternative to the lube filler. toilet paper pulp/puree. water and TP blend or tare and mix to a paste, pack the base, let it dry, or put it in the oven at about 350F-ish till dry, oven has the benefit of annealing the bullets. Taufledermouse uses this technique for hollow base shotgun slugs.
I had an old Trapdoor 45-70 that shot about like that. I tried Cream of Wheat and Super Grex as fillers and groups were a little better. I shot some bullets (I was using hollow base 405s) into snow and they looked pretty bad, with some of the grooves chewed up and small "fins" pulled off the skirt, indicating some roughness in the bore. A buddy recommended I try PuffLon ballistic filler. Groups shrank dramatically, and recovered bullets looked much better. Might be worth it to try on this rifle, once you can get that trigger working right.
@@lurch789 I used 20:1 and 30:1 alloy, as well as Lyman #2 (never pure lead) with the same results in the hollow-base design, and flat-base bullets (my first choice) grouped much worse than the HBs regardless of alloy or diameter. The bore was cleaned to bare metal using JB Bore Paste. Adding the PuffLon took care of most of the issues, which were due to almost invisible pitting just ahead of the chamber. Groups ended up nearly as tight as those from my friend's Uberti reproduction.👍
So when you're driving, the vibrations will mix up the COW and BP. It will burn differently shot to shot. Use a fired case and beer packaging to stamp out some over powder cards.
Great job accurizing. Keep it up you'll be competitive one day.
I paper patch my .575 Minies and fill the base with lube and my MkIII Snider shoots amazing! Been shooting it like that for the last 10 years. I am going to try a few made your way though, with no paper patching and see how they work in mine. Thanks for all the excellent videos!
My first muzzleloader was a Zoauve musket repro back in the early. 70s. We were at a muzzleloading shoot at Saratoga battle field . My gunsmith friend won it in a raffle and sold it to me at a good price. As per his instructions i always loaded the base of the mini ball with crisco. It would shoot 3 inch groups at 50 yards if i did my job. Years later i found a smooth bore musket barrel that fit that stock. 20 ga. I now use that as my turkey gun.
Hmmm! Interesting project young man “very interesting’ thanks!
Thank you
Jake I gotta tell ya, I watch all of your videos and enjoy the hell out of them. I load mostly precision smokeless and vintage milsurp but I absolutely plan on going the homemade route for my 45/70 eventually. You've definitely motived and inspired some confidence in me. Keep having fun with it and thank you for sharing🤘
Glad to hear it. Thank you!
I feel your trigger pain. I have an 1855 Lorenz with a 28# trigger and its nearly impossible to shoot. Probably why it’s survived 178 years.
Kia Ora from NZ.
We have quiet a few sniders over here.
& some regular Enfields.
Im not sure if its right but i use candle wax to fill plug in my Enfields.
Thatvworks for me.
Ive tried making wood plugs . Not much different results.
I have a PH 577 mould & a 578 lyman and a Pritchett that has no grooves but a big cavity & paper patch with traceing paper.
When done cafuely thats the 1 that works real well.
Enjoy your movies very much.
Well done and Tatou ( thanks)
Nga mihi
( Kind regards)
Chris
I like where this is going.
Always enjoy your content Jake, and it must be always nice getting support by your brother "Longer" and family plus friends... Mine passed away too soon and friends, well, let's just say are non-existent, with the exception with the few I've met recently on YT land and here in n the neighborhood... Keep tearing it up brother and shout out to all your team responsible as well in creating this content behind the scenes... 💯👊😎
Thank you
I’ve got a custom brass mold that casts a .590 diameter bullet of traditional profile but with a solid base and it’s a good shooter in the later mkIII barrels with 80 grains. The Snyder is like everting else, give it a bullet diameter close to what the barrel needs and a good bump from black powder and it will shoot ok. Now days I prefer to shoot a .50 caliber as it’s so much easier but the .577 served well as a transitional cartridge and no one would want to be hit by one!!
Great follow through, many would have developed a bad flinch with the lock problem.
Shooting flintlocks has conditioned me to be diligent in not flinching
Lol well the end is here..... jake is shooting paper in a video
The apocalypse is upon us!
Lol
I have 3 sniders. Shooting .600 mini ball is the way to go.!
When I was researching these cases/bullets/loads a while back I thought I read the developers went away from the plug because they didn't see a substantial change by not using them. Since I haven't played with my snider for a while It might be time to freshen up on everything again.
Great video. I have a Snider, works just fine, but accuracy leaves alot to be desired!
Interesting seeing how reduced loads are made. Sucks it split the stock. Thanks for showing ur lube too.
Now you need a martini henry. I love them boath
I do need a Martini Henry
I’m now curious as to what a few drops of melted wax would do ,if used to replace the wooden disc. Maybe carnuba. It’s almost as hard as that wood.
Glade to see its at least getting better with the grease
It’s the lock that’s the really the trouble
@@Everythingblackpowder is it falling into the half notch when fireing
Yes
Thank-You
Great video, I am going to have to find one for my very own. Sorry about that split, i fixed a 96 Krag Jorgensen with a bit of Stainless and a couple pieces of maple (rock( dowel)
Very cool, the lube in the base acts as a hydraulic piston. Putting the required pressure outward. Thats thinking in the head man, well done,
Thank you
My Snider took .590" bullets with 70 Grains ctg Pyrodex it was more accurate than most other Sniders being shot at Bisley.
Are you casting your bullets? If so what mold are you using?
Thanks for another very entertaining video-I like All that you do! 👍
Thank you
Could also try candle wax that may be stiffer, or a plastic filler like some premium hollowpoints use. Either could be melted easily and poured into the cavity. This stuffs cool as hell and I wish I hadn't gotten out of black powder, might have to get back in.
I tried the exact same thing except with borebutter and 575 cast minie balls. I was still figuring out the sights, but I was having keyholing at 25 yards in my Nepalese snider.
The ancestors' bullet of Dragonslayer!😊😊😊
Awesome video!
Thank you
Love the videos and content.
I've been playing around with 575 and 578 minie balls in 20ga shotguns. I use hot glue to fill the bases to increase the surface area.
So I have to wonder if using some hot glue would help. Regardless keep them coming . Lately I've been playing with and 32ga rifled barrel shotgun. So far my best load is with and 50cal maxi ball and 44cal 300gr cast simi wad cutter using and shot cup as and sabot. I have and old brass 575 minie ball mold I picked up at and gun show and 578 that is and Lyman. Anyone can load and common cartridge and get good results. Then there is people like us who live to tinker with the odd balls.
Great videos If you have the dimensions of the taper, I'll 3d print you some cones to fill the base.
Even though she was a little cantankerous, at least she did go BOOM!
Maybe some hard wax, like paraffin would be a good substitute for wood in the skirt?
Now you need a British .577 revolver, I think they're. 577 boxer.
Forth Armory guy has a video "Making clay plugs for the Enfield Rifled Musket bullet" and he uses a plug making plate that molds 50 at a time. He says he got it from Noe Bullet Molds, but I don't see it on their site, or it's special order. Maybe they will be the right size? There was an article from long ago where a Canadian guy collected a pile of original Kynoch ammo from a basement of an old church. He said it was very accurate and thought it may have been because of the formed hollow nose cavity. {frivilous info to add to your collection}.
Maybe not so frivolus . It moved the center of gravity rearward which makes for a more accurate bullet .
I want to send you some williams type 3’s to try in the snider, if you are game.
Snider is a very good rifle. It's kind of like a Henry Martina single shot. I think there was also a Spencer 1860 lever action single shot version. Frank Wesson 1860 is also something similar, MAYNARD - 1851-1858, Confederate Morse Carbine - 1856-1858 it is very beautiful in appearance and I like her very much. These are all such very nice carbines, rifles, single shot. Especially now in this financial, economic crisis and constantly active civil wars in hybrid, micro nano forms in Europe, America and other places around the world. In terms of appearance, design, I personally like them the most Spencer 1860 lever action single shot version and Confederate Morse Carbine - 1856-1858
3in at 50 is pretty decent for these from what I've gathered. It's also plenty good enough for a deer or bear at 50.
Im not sure filling the cavity will flare the skirt as desired. Maybe try some loads with an empty cavity? If the rifle shoots to the right you can adjust the sights maybe. Try using a very soft lead for the bullet. Might help.
The same load with an empty cavity won’t hit the paper at 50 yards. I’ll probably end up going with a 590-600 projectile
@@Everythingblackpowder Hum. Well, most of those old rifles had the sights fixed for a specific load. Find that original load and it might help. I dont know too much about the old sniiders, but i sure enjoy watching you work up good loads for it. I hope you get that trigger worked out. That will probable make a big difference.
Federal Tru-ball shotgun slugs use a plastic ball to swedge the slug bore sized and even unrifled barrels @1600 shoot wonderfull .
5 shots into a 20ga 5 shot box @100 yds that that barrel is all over the place with Anything Else . It simply works .
Why didn't you try the tumbler from the one with the broken stock in this lock? Or the sear or both
It might come to that
Just wondering, what about wax as the expander? Foul too much? Or a cork? Too soft? Just a couple thoughts, for what they are worth.
How 'bout filling the base with 5 minute epoxy? More of a solid plug than grease. Just a thought, gotta try it in my Springfield.
Have you considered the .600 mould from X-Ring services? Britishmuzzleloaders is adamant about its accuracy
Yeah that’s probably what I’ll end up doing. I just want to try it the hard way first
Just thinking, maybe you could design and 3D print plastic wedges for the Minié plug. There are online printing services if you can't print one
Think id be looking at craft stores for a plastic jewelery bead that fit in that base or a wooden ball or bead . Something like the Federal Tru-Ball shotgun foster slug uses .
I think I shoot the same round out of my Springfield 63? As a Hydraulics Tech? I agree! the grease Plug should act like a wood Plug with the benny of grease for fouling ease of clean, as grease will not change size compressed under any Pressure?
Thanks! I Like It! my Next paper cartridges will have a "DIY BP grease Plug". and this is a paradine shift for my papers, as I pack my DIY Lubed Minie's Bands shirt up with their primers inside each skirt separated from the main charge.
DUDE! Those ARE Great Groups! I would Love this Group! at this distance with Any of My BP Muzzle Loaders! Any Size! Great Video! but "I'm" too Lazy to Make My Own Darn Video? and you pulled it off With that Trigger.
Thanks Dave
Bondo filler in the base? JB Weld if you're a high roller?
Should have tried a Martini Henry :) You can use the same 24g shot shells, you just need to crimp them into shape.
I will own one someday
Perhaps you can make a mold of the hollow in the base of the bullet, cast a button to go into the base, and hold the button in the base with lube. Use hot glue to make the button.
Were the Minnie balls made with pure lead? If not, that could help with obturation as long as velocities are below 1600 fps.
yes pure lead. I’ve tried minie balls made from wheel weight lead and they don’t work well at all.
I never tried to fill in the cavity, but this sounds like a great idea. The only question is what happens with the black powder that touched the lube in the cavity? I guess it will not ignite, so the 80gr load few grains of load will be wasted?
No powder touches the lube. The cream of wheat filling does
@@Everythingblackpowder right, thanks. I'm just adjusting this scenario to myself. I have a 3-band Enfield and we do shot with the minies at 50 and 100 yards. The problem is my 78" twist is not good enough to keep minie stable at 100. I never tried to load more than 75gr of FFg (and this is not GOEX or Swiss), so I'm scratching my head now increasing the load up to probably uncomfortable value, or do something else. The search of something else lead me into this video, btw. So I'm going to fill in my cavity with lube, but in my case it will be touching the blackpowder for sure. But the idea is great, thanks, I just need to adjust it a bit :)
Ah, I see. Well give it a try and see what happens.
I shot crisco packed mini balls in my musket with ball against powder for years no problem. I used it deer hunting with the gun loaded for days without getting a shot. No problem when it was shot. I learned that back in the 70s . I am shocked that isnt common knowledge.
We’re shocked you haven’t made any videos on the topic…
yeah not the first time i've heard that about those nepal guns from what i've gathered it's a combo of the rifling pattern and shitty steel letting the rifling get dulled for lack of a better term and it doesn't get a good bight on the slug, the guy who told me that said he need ed to find the gun barrel version of a whetrock to sharpen it!
how about a 3d printed insert...
Good idea
I usually am bored as hell watching paper but this is interesting. Assuming ya can fix the damn trigger, load development should greatly improve accuracy to a good 200 - 250 yard hunting gun. (for dinosaurs!)
60 cal round ball pure lead works best in my sniders . Up to a hundred meters I use 50 grains Swiss powder
I have a Richmond rifle repro and started with 575 minnie and it key holed periodically. Do you think grease in the round cavity could help here? I did get 578 to try.
It’s worth a try
Can you maybe do a video trying patched round ball vs miniballs in a Kentucky rifle? I just got a traditions flintlock Kentucky rifle 1:66 twist (my first bp rifle) and they said no sabo or miniballs, patched round balls only. I don't know if you saw it on your new video but I would also love to see black powder 12g in a modern pump action shotgun. For bp you are my trusted source of info. Also if you start a patreon you will be the only person I have considered subscribing to, I'd love to put a few bucks towards some videos for your trouble. Thank you and hope to see some videos soon.
Thank you
What alloy are those 575 cast in? If harder than pure lead, I wonder if something softer would work better.
All my minie balls are cast from 99% pure lead.
@@Everythingblackpowder Kind of surprised they need the lube to cause expansion, should have more than enough pressure. But if it works, sure is a simple solution to the problem.
That’s what’s odd about the Snider. The same bullets works just fine in my Enfield rifle musket with a hollow base but for some reason the snider needs extra help to get it to expand.
Sorry this is so late to the game but did you slug your bore ? Also would like to see the innards of the lock and what was wrong if it's not too late ?
Yes, it measures .597. I did some filling on the tumbler and replaced the trigger spring and it works great. Sorry I don’t have a video on fixing it.
Thanks for getting back so soon. You have a great channel would like to meet up with you guys some day maybe at a rendevous ?@@Everythingblackpowder
I wonder if chucking a dowel into a drill and using a file to turn the bevel then cut the little plug. It would be enough for proof of concept. Alternatively 3d printing would solve it too. Or maybe put a piece of tape inside a bullet and fill it with hot glue then pull the plug out. Then install it into a new bullet so its not bonded in the cavity.
If you like to cast your own bullets you might try Mountain Molds. He does not like to build for black powder guns but your in luck since a 577 Nitro Express also takes a .585 bullet, just tell him you need a bullet mold for light loads.
He will think your going after wild hogs before trucking off to Africa....LOL
Accurate molds will make different diameter moulds
@@markzimmerman7279 Excellent call on Accurate Molds, the mold number 59-550B is exactly the mold I was looking for, I have a Snider also.
Thanks
If you want to try a wooden wedge, you could put a dowel in a drill or drill press and either put a vertical tool rest or just use a file to get the angle and then use a hack saw to cut it off. Must be my mistake, because I thought you had a metal lathe, but you must not since you cut casings down with a drill and trim tool. As a machinist myself, I just assume people have access to the same machines that I used to. So many things you can do with a lathe that you should maybe consider buying a small bench top type at least. You would wonder what you did withiut one.
I have a Nepalese third pattern Bess that has the same lock issue. It's fuckin infuriating. I'm a gunsmith and I can't get the damn thing to work. I got that gun probably 3 years ago and completely restored it but I've never fired it thanks to that wonky ass lock.
Bummer
Wood Dowel in a pencil sharpener just to get the bevel then cut to size
🙂👍👍
Cool stuff. Had an 1866 snyder enfield but didn't feel like dealing with the corrosive stuff so i just substituted it with 60 grains of imr 4064 behind those.585 minié balls. Sadly the gun exploded, pretty sure it had a faulty barrel or something. Oh well, got another one thats in better shape hopefully it goes better !
The Snider-Enfield: Ammunition Reloading Part 1 and 2
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th-cam.com/video/TAEfDVq8cIQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=NPY3mGyKDIqY3XKD
I assume you the balls are pure lead? How would a 3d printed plug work? There are tapered wood plug cutters as well. Have you tried any smokeless loads for shits & giggles, I noticed you had some A5744 at one point.
Yes pure lead and the 3d printed plug is a good idea. No haven’t tried smokeless and not planning on it.
The dramatic change in accuracy between the two bullets was quite interesting. I’m more familiar with muzzle-stuffers than Sniders, are your shooting a bullet that is sized to the land diameter or groove diameter of the barrel? If it is groove diameter than bullet expansion into the rifling is irrelevant. I’ve found that when shooting a typical Burton ball, the skirt cavity is too deep and is affecting the bullets center of gravity during flight. This instability results in a larger group size and poi shirt. When you fill the skirt cavity with lube, it does not assist in expansion of the skirt, it is in fact changing the CG of the bullet slightly compared to not filling the skirt. Most if not all of the lube in the skirt cavity remains with the bullet upon exiting the barrel. I’ve found that a shallow truncated cone shaped skirt cavity with thin skirt walls improves the bullet’s accuracy while still providing sufficient expansion to grip the rifling of the barrel. The bullet is cast of pure soft lead as is typical with muzzleloaders.
In addition I typically shoot 45 grains of 3f Swiss in my .58 cal 3 bander and increasing the powder charge with this modified bullet does not change accuracy significantly. That should save your shoulder some hurt.
That’s not how they had it figured in the late 1860s. The original snider round had a hollow base and a hollow point. This was done to keep the bullet stable in flight by keeping the weight of the projectile to the outside of the spinning mass. My Enfield rifle musket shoots these burton bullets just fine with a hollow base, Not the case with the Snider. The Sniders requires something more than the powder to force the bullets to expand. Most folks use a .600 flat based bullet in their Sniders.
@@Everythingblackpowder That's fascinating information. Now I have one more thing to try on the path of accuracy, haha.
Have you tried using clay as a plug?
Nope
i second rooknado's comment.
Try epoxy in the base and see it that helps expansion
Sooo...you know you're shooting with an infantry gun? This is up from the Bess.
Yeah, so?
@@Everythingblackpowder Maybe you're expecting to much. I saw what you did to improve accuracy.
Try epoxy to fill the base. The original wood plugs wouldn't have deformed like your lube probably does. Epoxy will be more rigid and would take little effort compared to making wood plugs.
The Snider bore can be as much as .590 so must measure it first and don’t use .577
Get a wooden dowel and cut off the length you need for the bullet?
Why did you say it wasn't accurate? It was very accurate. More so than I would have bet on. It shot a very consistent group to the right. Pretty much the definition of accuracy. Precision? Not very. I for one was impressed by the accuracy. I'd hunt out to 200 yards with it for venison.
I have a 3030 that doesn't do a hell of a lot better and Ive killed deer at 200 plus. Maybe I missed the point here with your video .
Did I say it wasn’t accurate?
@@Everythingblackpowder I thaught you did but then again yesterday was Sunday and barbecue day with alot of beer.
Anyway another great video love your content.
Why don't you just make a neck expander .002 under cast bullet diameter????
Make custom neck sizer .002" under fired neck after firing.
Your working brass too much
No need. I use a .600 bullet from X ring services.