@@davefellhoelter1343 Same here. I live in one of the reddest parts of Commiefornistan. I wished I lived "In the valley" though. It's BLUE and more gun friendly. At least the parts I go to.
@@kbjerke simple get another vault? Have a large hydraulic oil tank sitting on a four wheeler waiting to be a reborn safe, I started giving them to my kids while "I'm Alive" and can see their faces, now I got them hooked.
For those folks that claim Black Powder doesn't kick, well, they just don't fire full power loads out of their squirrel rifles. .577 speaks with authority. Cheers!
@@kbjerke those musketoons are bad because they weigh next to nothing. The JP Murray Artillery Carbine on the other hand absorbs a lot of the recoil but is as heavy as those 10 moving boxes we hear about. Cheers!
@@lutherpayne9957 I love the 'toon! And perhaps not to the same extent as Scott from Kentucky Ballistics, I *LOVE* recoil!! Best wishes to you, and keep yer powder dry!
@@kbjerke I have the toon and the two bander. I prefer the Enfields over Springfield because of weight. Of all my rifle muskets I prefer shooting my 63 Remington "Zouave". It was made sometime in the 1970's by a company called Zoli. It is most accurate with patched round balls and 55 grains of 2f Swiss bp. Happy shooting to you as well. Cheers!
I've got my grandpa's civil war era carbine musket rifle in .65 or .66 caliber. He let me take a deer with it in high-school and boy does that short little (formerly a British calvary rifle) shoulder cannon really hit hard on both ends of the rifle! That 500 some grain roundball left a quarter sized hole straight through the deer!
I'd bet a whole dollar that the chronograph is struggling because of the wads. The thing works by timing off of the shadow of the projectile, right? But when the wad flies through and leaves a significant enough second shadow, the chrono doesn't know what to do and cries for mommy. That's my theory at least. Great episode, and thank you for the content! Here's either a $5 tip, or $4 and settling a $1 lost bet.
@@Everythingblackpowder The dollar I bet that the chronograph is confused by the wads. Or is it? I don't know, but I can still tip / pay up either way.
lol I definitely think the wads there throwing the chronograph for a loop. They all seemed to disintegrate about 5 yards in front of me. The ground was covered in fragments.
I agree, 70gr of 3F in 45-70 with a 500gr bullet aint no joke in the recoil department. Heavy bullets and large charges let you know when you light them off.
lol thanks! Not too bad for being a complete accident. I’ve had some folks call it “dieseling”. As the story goes, the lube actually ignites from the compression and burns all the way down range.
@@Everythingblackpowderin the new air rifles if you fill the back of the pellets with Vaseline or Crisco and your fps will jump drastically like 2-3-400 fps in a modern high power pellet rifle
I was playing around with my Snider this morning. 6.5 grains of Ramshot Zip, 8 1/4" Nitrocards and a .600 round ball gave me a whopping 480fps and nearly silent report. I've got to get a set of dies so I can crimp bullets in place and try this stuff.
I have found that shotgun flake powders work pretty well in Sniders and .50-70 Trapdoors. It keeps the pressure and pressure curve within the acceptable zone. My Martini duplex is 7gn of AA#5 and about 75gn of Pyrodex. It burns a hell of a lot cleaner than just Pyrodex
The old man back in the 60s shot pigs with the old 577 in Moree northen NSW (Aussie) , knocked the b#####ds A over T . Like your show , all the best to you and yours from the Aussie Boomer
Hey, I have a 1853 pattern Enfield that Hiram Berdan had converted to what was almost a exact copy of the action used on the Springfield breach loader muskets adopted by the U.S. military. On the flat of the opposite side of the stock is stamped, "Patented Feb. 27, 1866." It is in excellent condition. From what I understand Berdan had Remington/Colt do the breach conversion. He intended to convince the British Government to use his trapdoor design. However they went with the American inventor's system, that being the Snider version. I had the ejector repaired by Lodgewood Manufacturing. I am now making cartridges to shoot it. I did see someone else use a wooden plug used and inserted into the base of the bullet like the the original Enfield ammunition. When the case ignited the plug would be forced into the base of the bullet allowing it to expand the base of the bullet into the rifling. I was going to use a 3/8 plug cutting tool, however I found 3/8" oak flat head plugs with a slight taper. When pushed into the base of the bullet using some bullet lube they seem like they will work as intended. I have not fired the musket yet, however I think it will work fine. The plugs are made by Madison Hill, 3/8 (.953) . The order number is 9005-19003-9005M. They were purchased at Lowes .
Gotta break out my snider now, it has about 3 hour-of-average accuracy but now I have more information to hit it with... If you're having ignition issues I use magnum large pistol primers in mine (mostly because my spring is weak lol)
I don't have any BP rifles, but do a lot of .36, .44 and .45. I'm sure you've checked, but on my (cheap) Caldwell chrony I have to wipe down the windows with an alcohol wipe after every few shoots or it quits wanting to read. Hope it helps. And of course I love the videos.
I fill the hollow bases of my minie balls with SPG for my Zouve rifle musket and it allows me to shoot my 50th round just as easily as my first with no loss of accuracy. So i can totally agree with doing it with the 577 snider.
My favorite plinking load for the 45-70 is 15gr of Unique ( the old formula because I bought a ton when they cleared it out), a fiber wad and a 300gr Lee cast bullet. Never chronographed it but it shoots out to 100 yards real nice.
I always enjoy the duplex videos. I have had good success with 45-70 smokeless kicker under BP for a good clean burn in my Sharps rifle. Recently, I experimented with a smokeless kicker under BP in 357 mag brass loaded as a blank to reduce fouling for my YT algarithim short vids and I noticed that while fouling was reduced flash was also reduced and the shots appeared similar to smokeless which doesn't charm the algarithim if you know what I mean.
Where things get interesting is duplexing with BP substitutes. Built some 7.62x54 test loads recently, all with 200g Lee cast .312 with gas checks: 55 gr of toilet paper BP, compressed 1640 fps, 40 gr of Grey MZ with 5gr H4895 booster -1898 fps. Yea when you don't get chronograph data on these test loads it's very irritating. I now pop out the Berdans hydraulically and reload them with FA-70 (circa WW2 primer). Perfect every aspect of your chosen art
If you ever get a chance to try a 2 band, Sgt’s Snider they often shoot a bit better and seem to have more consistent bores, but they all shoot high. Made for a belt bucket sight hold. 🤷🏻♂️ You are having fun and shooting a grand old rifle / caliber. Love your channel. 👍🏼
I just made a Larger expander ball for my Die .My bullets seat with a little Thumb pressure I was just at a gunshow on the weekend and got a bag of 100- 577/450 I am going to cut down to 577 .I also found 100 50/95 new cases I will cut down for my 2 50/70'S Newyork and Trapdoor
trust me Jake it's more than just your chrony that does that i've got 2 that'll get PMS out of nowhere like that!! i think it may have to do with how high the slug passes the sensors it seems when they're hitting high you get more bad readings than when it's on point of aim or hitting low! those Magtech hulls are getting expensive i just checked midway usa and they're $49.99 a box for 12 gauge! the last ones i got a few years back (but not at midway!!) were $27.85 a box!
very interesting that you can shoot smokeless in a balloon head case. i have been trying to make brass cases for 22 long rifle for a while out of copper strip, and i always thought that balloon head stuff was only really good for black powder. i would love to make 380 acp or 5.56 balloon head or something on an arbor press and load up a magazine with it and see how it shoots. i bet i could make casings cheaper and easier than they do industrially. depending on what die you used for heading you wouldn't even need to put the case on a lathe. it would be like making 22... so interesting!
@@Everythingblackpowder Can I ask, do you know why balloon head casings fell out of favor? Can these cases not stand up to pressure like modern solid head can? It sounds like you have a lot of really valuable experience, like when you chose not to put smokeless at the bottom of the case at the primer level. do you know if balloon head casings are less tolerant of high pressures than solid head ones? i have heard this repeated a lot but i don't know if there is any basis for it - i mean, how often have you heard of a case blowing out from the back, or blowing the primer out? and primers are even thinner than the walls of a case. are there any resources that i could read about this that you would recommend? like, what material informed you to not put smokeless below the primer level? does that just come from experience and ballistics education?
I tried loading smokeless in brass 12ga shotgun hulls some years and ran into that problem. I’ve never had a balloon head case separate but I’ve seen pictures of it.
@@Everythingblackpowder you mean primer blowout? interesting... also, id think case head separation wouldn't be much worse for balloon head just because the case head separation is because of a case wall failure. it reminds me of the old folded foil martini henry casings. those things actually rarely had case head separation even though the case head was just held on with solder.
I find these videos so interesting. The various duplex loads seem to work quite well. Have you ever tried loads ignited by a 209 shotgun primer? I just wondered if the larger primer made a difference? Thanks for the knowledge. Phil
I've got a box of magtek shells and a bag of plastic shells. I really need to take my Nepalese snider out. It has a mirror bright bore. Those plinking loads should be fun.
I've been playing around with the duplex load for the main reason that a percussion cap won't light HS-6. I was trying to duplicate a 45 Colt load in a 44 cap and ball. Saw your video and decided to revisit. I put 23% 4F black in a glass jar and 77% HS-6 (which is close in pressure and burn rate of Unique) By weight. I mixed the 2 like they would in a 45 Colt case on a trotting horse. I loaded 13 grains of this mix per chamber of my 1858 Remington. I compared to 25 grain charge of 3 f black and black powder only charge was still a little stronger. The point is when thoroughly mixed the low percentage of black still lights the smokeless
I have a solid base .575 ish 605gr Lyman mold that would probably be decent paper patched in that rifle. It’s kind of fun in my 58 caliber muzzleloaders.
Back around 2008 I experienced the "tracer" effect shooting 58cal minie skirted rounds that I had accidentally filled the cavity with lube. We were targeting gongs under tree cover with low light. Shooting out to 70yds uphill they were very red and the other shooters wanted to know what I'd done. Get yourself a Garmin Xero C1 Pro, its just better.
I've seen some guys shooting 54cal Harpers Ferry rifles and they were doing the some thing. Leaving a highly visible vapor or smoke trail. Always wondered what it was
I have a suggestion you may love or hate. Half of tannerite is alumium powder. The other half, mixed 28:5 by weight with icing sugar, should burn perfectly cleanly, without soot, smoke or salts left behind. I'd love to test it, but can't here. Can you test that, in something you don't mind maybe breaking, at the end of a long piece of string? *EDIT:* I should probably mention that it's around 130 ft-lb per grain. That's probably very useful information when planning to do any testing of it. Don't go just tipping a teaspoonful of it into the case to see what happens, hey?
Here in the UK there are plenty of shooters using Lovex D60 (same as 5744) in Sniders and Martini Henry's but without the black powder starter. I have some Bertram brass on its way for my Mk3 Snider so I may give it a go.
Just hope we don't get to the part of some reassembly required . I have a couple of 577 S and lots of 24 G brass shells all ready to go just no time yet .
Thank you for doing this video. I wonder what degree of felt recoil is the product of the projectile's weight? It seems that propelling a very heavy bullet would increase the amount of pressure and bleed some of that pressure off in the form of recoil. Excellent video as always - I always learn something.
> I wonder what degree of felt recoil is the product of the projectile's weight? Conservation of momentum impulse of bullet + impulse of propellant gasses = -1 x impulse of rifle velocity of bullet x mass of bullet (+ Velocity of propellant gasses x Mass of propellant) = -1 x (velocity of rifle x mass of rifle) negative because rifle is moving in the opposite direction, can be omitted for simplicity 50% more bullet mass means 50% more recoil (assuming velocity and propellant etc woud stay the same. 50% more bullet velocity would increase the recoil by 50% , too. RECOIL IS PROPOTIONAL TO PROJECTILE WEIGHT AND also to PROJECTILE VELOCITY Increasing both by 41% at the same time would increase recoil by a factor of 1.41x 1.41 = 2 = 200% Lowering both mass and velocity of the bullet to 70% would reduce recoil to 0.7 x 0.7 = 49%, or about half the recoil. Slow and heavy means lots of recoil and comparatively low muzzle energy. Lightweight and fast means much less recoil for the same amount of muzzle energy. Subjectively felt recoil is, well... subjective, and dependent on a whole lot of other factors.
Great video. In almost all black powder rifles over .40 cal I use ed to test them with my MAGGOB (make any gun go ba ng) load which was 14 gr. of Unique. My standard bullet for serious shooting I had an old Lyman .585213 and occasionally occasionally used a Lee .584 real bullet. My cases were Bell basic. I shot thousands of rounds and the primer pockets eventually got so worn out I had to Crazy Glug them into place. My dies were custom made for .585 bullets.
Greta video! Keep busting all the black powder myths you can! May all the doomsayers choke on their spit! I hope to try some of these duplex loads in my 59-95 Winchester. Just need to find some 5744 or my tryH110 . Thanks!
I’m having a real issue understanding the 13 grains of unique loading, and it’s exactly the load I’d like to duplicate for mine. Could you do a video on that exact loading at some point, I’ve looked back through your videos and can’t find one on it and I’m nervous of using smokeless without a detailed guide, thank you very much for your videos and keeping these antiques alive
Dude your videos are great. I've been experimenting with speeding up smokeless loads with small amounts of black powder to improve performance from snubnose revolvers because of these duplex vids so I'd like you to know if I die I'll haunt you
yeah, the home made tracer thing is pretty cool. obviously, you have no way of gathering the actual pressure (numbers), so how do you know if your loads are getting to hot (pressure, not temp obviously) the only b.p. thing I own at this point is a 50 caliber muzzle loader. which I have done a little smokeless experimenting. but a cap and ball revolver is something I am interested in.
Love it even though I still think it’s playing with fire. Out of a mk3 I would tempt it possibly but black powder is just so simple out of these things idk if I would ever go with anything else maybe pyrodex if BP isn’t available.
@@Everythingblackpowder yes, in the airgun world you can diesel pellets by adding Vaseline or tallow based lube into the hollow base of a pellet . It will explode and give you 30-40% more velocity. But it will give you inconsistent velocity
I noted your use of LP primers. Remember when the JS and Pat Wolf book came out about loading the 45-70 TD and everyone jumped on the magnum primer bandwagon? I did some tests and got the worst MV and fouling with LRM primers. With identical loads, MV was DIY>CCI LP>Fed LPM>Fed LR>Win LRM and fouling ran the opposite direction. The milder primers gave me about 60 fps extra and 15% less fouling. Everyone has different rifles and protocols, but have you noticed this?
I haven’t done extensive testing with magnum primers but in my experience they don’t make much of a difference. Also, with the primer situation being what it is nowadays we can’t afford to be too picky.
@@Everythingblackpowder Roger that. Switching to LP for my BPCR loads and saving the LRs for smokeless milsurps. BTW that priming compound for DIY percussion caps also works in re-worked Boxer primers. PITA to make tho.
I shoot Hammer monolithic bullets out of my 25/06 and the oil in the hollow points leaves a smoke trail. First time I saw it I thought I screwed up.😅😅😅
Looking at the curves for 5744, you're probably getting up around 10-12K PSI not too quickly, but maintaining it. With that fiber wad, I'm going to guess that the 'tracer effect' and the heat transfer into the rifle are both the result of the same thing.... the curve and level are enough to compress that fiber wad and seal it against the case like a piston, and it's compressing the trapped air in the cartridge and igniting the lube with compression heating. Since that extra heat also bleeds into it's surroundings, the gun gets nice and toasty quicker.
I wish that I had a place to shoot freely. Thank you for your videos. They do not suck.
Thank you
ME TOO! I have a whole day minimum pilgrimage with $6 a gallon and a whole tank as a Californiacationor.
@@davefellhoelter1343
Same here.
I live in one of the reddest parts of Commiefornistan.
I wished I lived "In the valley"
though.
It's BLUE and more gun friendly.
At least the parts I go to.
I love the fact that even though you're dealing with guns and gunpowder, you don't take yourself too seriously.
@@thomaskirkpatrick4031 thanks
I shoulda bought that Snider when I had the chance... 40 years ago, lol. Thanks, Jake!
😂 I wish you would have!
@@Everythingblackpowder Except I'm running out of room in the vault!! Oh, well.
@@kbjerke karl, running out of room and being out of room are two different things…
@@kbjerke simple get another vault? Have a large hydraulic oil tank sitting on a four wheeler waiting to be a reborn safe, I started giving them to my kids while "I'm Alive" and can see their faces, now I got them hooked.
@@davefellhoelter1343 That's a good idea, but my "step kids" are anti-gun. I can still have *MY* fun, though!!
For those folks that claim Black Powder doesn't kick, well, they just don't fire full power loads out of their squirrel rifles. .577 speaks with authority. Cheers!
I have an Enfield Musketoon that will verify that statement!
@@kbjerke those musketoons are bad because they weigh next to nothing. The JP Murray Artillery Carbine on the other hand absorbs a lot of the recoil but is as heavy as those 10 moving boxes we hear about. Cheers!
@@lutherpayne9957 I love the 'toon! And perhaps not to the same extent as Scott from Kentucky Ballistics, I *LOVE* recoil!! Best wishes to you, and keep yer powder dry!
@@kbjerke I have the toon and the two bander. I prefer the Enfields over Springfield because of weight. Of all my rifle muskets I prefer shooting my 63 Remington "Zouave". It was made sometime in the 1970's by a company called Zoli. It is most accurate with patched round balls and 55 grains of 2f Swiss bp. Happy shooting to you as well. Cheers!
Let them run 150gr in a modern in-line and see how they feel then set up with full power in a Snyder or martini Henry and see what they say
Smoke tracers! Cool!!
Right?!
Oh and I love the tracers
Wasn’t that Bitchin?!
@@Everythingblackpowder fill the base cavity with red phosphorous next time !
@@mikehoare6093mix phosphorus and sulfur like he was forming the black powder for pistols only fill that cavity and see what happens lol 😂
I've got my grandpa's civil war era carbine musket rifle in .65 or .66 caliber. He let me take a deer with it in high-school and boy does that short little (formerly a British calvary rifle) shoulder cannon really hit hard on both ends of the rifle! That 500 some grain roundball left a quarter sized hole straight through the deer!
I'd bet a whole dollar that the chronograph is struggling because of the wads. The thing works by timing off of the shadow of the projectile, right? But when the wad flies through and leaves a significant enough second shadow, the chrono doesn't know what to do and cries for mommy. That's my theory at least.
Great episode, and thank you for the content! Here's either a $5 tip, or $4 and settling a $1 lost bet.
Thank you! What bet did you lose?
@@Everythingblackpowder The dollar I bet that the chronograph is confused by the wads. Or is it? I don't know, but I can still tip / pay up either way.
lol I definitely think the wads there throwing the chronograph for a loop. They all seemed to disintegrate about 5 yards in front of me. The ground was covered in fragments.
I agree, 70gr of 3F in 45-70 with a 500gr bullet aint no joke in the recoil department. Heavy bullets and large charges let you know when you light them off.
Yes when you put a big heavy projectile in front of an even moderate load you are going to feel the kick.
love the smoke tracer shots, and anyone that says that BP does not push you around have never shot a full snort 45-70 or 50-90 rifle, they push hard.
This was amazing to watch with the smoke trail😶🌫......Thanks guy's 👍
Old F-4 Shoe🇺🇸
Thank you
You mastered the smoke trails for sure! I've tried and failed numerous times trying to get that effect!
lol thanks! Not too bad for being a complete accident. I’ve had some folks call it “dieseling”. As the story goes, the lube actually ignites from the compression and burns all the way down range.
You guys should do a collab video!! Black powder modern 12 gauge?
@@Everythingblackpowderin the new air rifles if you fill the back of the pellets with Vaseline or Crisco and your fps will jump drastically like 2-3-400 fps in a modern high power pellet rifle
Check that comment about dieseling I’ve done it for years with airrifles
I was playing around with my Snider this morning. 6.5 grains of Ramshot Zip, 8 1/4" Nitrocards and a .600 round ball gave me a whopping 480fps and nearly silent report. I've got to get a set of dies so I can crimp bullets in place and try this stuff.
I have found that shotgun flake powders work pretty well in Sniders and .50-70 Trapdoors.
It keeps the pressure and pressure curve within the acceptable zone.
My Martini duplex is 7gn of AA#5 and about 75gn of Pyrodex. It burns a hell of a lot cleaner than just Pyrodex
Great job Jake. Like your style. Keep them coming.
Thank you
Another video that didn't suck. I sure do like that rifle.
Thank you
Absolutely fantastic as always. Now I will beg and plead for a post shoot cleaning video for both the Snider & the Trapdoor 🙏
This video was rad. It makes me want a Snyder
When you said "It's hot" I thought about the Defenders of Roukes Drift.
Dang Jake! Talk about a cannon with tracers!
My shoulder hurts just watching you shoot!🤣
Brilliant vid again sir! Love the snider.
Thank you
Cool, thanks Jack and brother.
Nice job again, always interesting to see your experiments.
Thank you
Very cool sir I'm loving it thank you for sharing this six stars
The old man back in the 60s shot pigs with the old 577 in Moree northen NSW (Aussie) , knocked the b#####ds A over T . Like your show , all the best to you and yours from the Aussie Boomer
Thank you
Hey, I have a 1853 pattern Enfield that Hiram Berdan had converted to what was almost a exact copy of the action used on the Springfield breach loader muskets adopted by the U.S. military. On the flat of the opposite side of the stock is stamped, "Patented Feb. 27, 1866." It is in excellent condition.
From what I understand Berdan had Remington/Colt do the breach conversion. He intended to convince the British Government to use his trapdoor design. However they went with the American inventor's system, that being the Snider version.
I had the ejector repaired by Lodgewood Manufacturing. I am now making cartridges to shoot it. I did see someone else use a wooden plug used and inserted into the base of the bullet like the the original Enfield ammunition. When the case ignited the plug would be forced into the base of the bullet allowing it to expand the base of the bullet into the rifling. I was going to use a 3/8 plug cutting tool, however I found 3/8" oak flat head plugs with a slight taper. When pushed into the base of the bullet using some bullet lube they seem like they will work as intended. I have not fired the musket yet, however I think it will work fine. The plugs are made by Madison Hill, 3/8 (.953) . The order number is 9005-19003-9005M. They were purchased at Lowes .
@@musketbal excellent
Gotta break out my snider now, it has about 3 hour-of-average accuracy but now I have more information to hit it with...
If you're having ignition issues I use magnum large pistol primers in mine (mostly because my spring is weak lol)
really enjoyed this
Glad to hear it
I don't have any BP rifles, but do a lot of .36, .44 and .45. I'm sure you've checked, but on my (cheap) Caldwell chrony I have to wipe down the windows with an alcohol wipe after every few shoots or it quits wanting to read. Hope it helps. And of course I love the videos.
On days the wind is blowing straight downwind, that is when your chrony seems to up fup.
As always ,GREAT !
Thank you
Great way to start the mornin. Coffee and duplex loads. That tracer effect was awesome! Never seen that before.
I fill the hollow bases of my minie balls with SPG for my Zouve rifle musket and it allows me to shoot my 50th round just as easily as my first with no loss of accuracy. So i can totally agree with doing it with the 577 snider.
Love your show.
Thank you
14:20 Congratulations! You've invented the first reduced smoke .577 Snider base-bleed extended range load.
Thank you
That big bullet is movin'! 🐎
My favorite plinking load for the 45-70 is 15gr of Unique ( the old formula because I bought a ton when they cleared it out), a fiber wad and a 300gr Lee cast bullet. Never chronographed it but it shoots out to 100 yards real nice.
That smoke trail was very cool
Right?!
I definitely agree that large loads of FFg … DO kick like a mule! I also agree that there is little recoil under 70 grains.
Great info! For some reason I like the Snider way better than the Trapdoor
Good choice!
I use 14 gr of 700X, Xring bullet, no wad. Fired hundreds of rounds. 3" groups at 50 yards. Great video!
Thank you
I always enjoy the duplex videos. I have had good success with 45-70 smokeless kicker under BP for a good clean burn in my Sharps rifle. Recently, I experimented with a smokeless kicker under BP in 357 mag brass loaded as a blank to reduce fouling for my YT algarithim short vids and I noticed that while fouling was reduced flash was also reduced and the shots appeared similar to smokeless which doesn't charm the algarithim if you know what I mean.
Invented a new round; smoke tracers
nice hahah
Where things get interesting is duplexing with BP substitutes. Built some 7.62x54 test loads recently, all with 200g Lee cast .312 with gas checks: 55 gr of toilet paper BP, compressed 1640 fps, 40 gr of Grey MZ with 5gr H4895 booster -1898 fps. Yea when you don't get chronograph data on these test loads it's very irritating. I now pop out the Berdans hydraulically and reload them with FA-70 (circa WW2 primer). Perfect every aspect of your chosen art
Interesting!
Another Gem Boys!
You guys rock!! Love it
Thank you
Gret vidio. . One of my favourite calibres. Just great chat from you interesting and fun👍👍Jon jackson
Thank you
If you ever get a chance to try a 2 band, Sgt’s Snider they often shoot a bit better and seem to have more consistent bores, but they all shoot high. Made for a belt bucket sight hold. 🤷🏻♂️
You are having fun and shooting a grand old rifle / caliber.
Love your channel. 👍🏼
Thank you
That smoke trail was some badass shit man :D
Hey...big fan of your "regularly scheduled programming"...
Thank you
Hello Garmin... Somebody needs a freebee radar chrono!
I just made a Larger expander ball for my Die .My bullets seat with a little Thumb pressure
I was just at a gunshow on the weekend and got a bag of 100- 577/450 I am going to cut down
to 577 .I also found 100 50/95 new cases I will cut down for my 2 50/70'S Newyork and Trapdoor
Great comparison of various loads.
Thank you
Very cool 😎
Thank you, Neighbor 👍
Thank you
You make me wish I had kept some of the old Enfields I brought from Afghanistan instead of selling them all. That smoke trail is way cool also.
Sounds like you need to shoot at your chronograph instead of through it and we’ll all chip in and buy you a new one😂 Nice job as always!
trust me Jake it's more than just your chrony that does that i've got 2 that'll get PMS out of nowhere like that!! i think it may have to do with how high the slug passes the sensors it seems when they're hitting high you get more bad readings than when it's on point of aim or hitting low! those Magtech hulls are getting expensive i just checked midway usa and they're $49.99 a box for 12 gauge! the last ones i got a few years back (but not at midway!!) were $27.85 a box!
Thank-You
Thank you
very interesting that you can shoot smokeless in a balloon head case. i have been trying to make brass cases for 22 long rifle for a while out of copper strip, and i always thought that balloon head stuff was only really good for black powder. i would love to make 380 acp or 5.56 balloon head or something on an arbor press and load up a magazine with it and see how it shoots. i bet i could make casings cheaper and easier than they do industrially. depending on what die you used for heading you wouldn't even need to put the case on a lathe. it would be like making 22... so interesting!
Thank you. I was surprised it worked as well as it did
@@Everythingblackpowder Can I ask, do you know why balloon head casings fell out of favor? Can these cases not stand up to pressure like modern solid head can? It sounds like you have a lot of really valuable experience, like when you chose not to put smokeless at the bottom of the case at the primer level. do you know if balloon head casings are less tolerant of high pressures than solid head ones? i have heard this repeated a lot but i don't know if there is any basis for it - i mean, how often have you heard of a case blowing out from the back, or blowing the primer out? and primers are even thinner than the walls of a case. are there any resources that i could read about this that you would recommend?
like, what material informed you to not put smokeless below the primer level? does that just come from experience and ballistics education?
I tried loading smokeless in brass 12ga shotgun hulls some years and ran into that problem. I’ve never had a balloon head case separate but I’ve seen pictures of it.
@@Everythingblackpowder you mean primer blowout? interesting... also, id think case head separation wouldn't be much worse for balloon head just because the case head separation is because of a case wall failure. it reminds me of the old folded foil martini henry casings. those things actually rarely had case head separation even though the case head was just held on with solder.
I find these videos so interesting. The various duplex loads seem to work quite well. Have you ever tried loads ignited by a 209 shotgun primer? I just wondered if the larger primer made a difference? Thanks for the knowledge. Phil
With the 12ga smokeless bass hulls, yes.
I've got a box of magtek shells and a bag of plastic shells. I really need to take my Nepalese snider out. It has a mirror bright bore. Those plinking loads should be fun.
Give them a try
Awesome Video! Thank You!
Thank you
I've been playing around with the duplex load for the main reason that a percussion cap won't light HS-6. I was trying to duplicate a 45 Colt load in a 44 cap and ball. Saw your video and decided to revisit. I put 23% 4F black in a glass jar and 77% HS-6 (which is close in pressure and burn rate of Unique) By weight. I mixed the 2 like they would in a 45 Colt case on a trotting horse. I loaded 13 grains of this mix per chamber of my 1858 Remington. I compared to 25 grain charge of 3 f black and black powder only charge was still a little stronger. The point is when thoroughly mixed the low percentage of black still lights the smokeless
Very interesting
I have a solid base .575 ish 605gr Lyman mold that would probably be decent paper patched in that rifle. It’s kind of fun in my 58 caliber muzzleloaders.
you know what would be interesting to see is how those loads that shot high did at about 3 to 400 yards if possible. .
Merci
Obviously if it made it to video nothing bad happened!!
The camera man always survives.
Cool, Good Stuff, not much interest in 577 Snyder on my part, but still appreciate the effort and spreading the info and Data.
Back around 2008 I experienced the "tracer" effect shooting 58cal minie skirted rounds that I had accidentally filled the cavity with lube. We were targeting gongs under tree cover with low light. Shooting out to 70yds uphill they were very red and the other shooters wanted to know what I'd done. Get yourself a Garmin Xero C1 Pro, its just better.
You should try shooting the "tracer" load at night and see if there's a visible flame or if its just smoke
I've seen some guys shooting 54cal Harpers Ferry rifles and they were doing the some thing. Leaving a highly visible vapor or smoke trail. Always wondered what it was
Thanks 👍
Thank you
I have a suggestion you may love or hate. Half of tannerite is alumium powder. The other half, mixed 28:5 by weight with icing sugar, should burn perfectly cleanly, without soot, smoke or salts left behind. I'd love to test it, but can't here. Can you test that, in something you don't mind maybe breaking, at the end of a long piece of string?
*EDIT:* I should probably mention that it's around 130 ft-lb per grain. That's probably very useful information when planning to do any testing of it.
Don't go just tipping a teaspoonful of it into the case to see what happens, hey?
Here in the UK there are plenty of shooters using Lovex D60 (same as 5744) in Sniders and Martini Henry's but without the black powder starter.
I have some Bertram brass on its way for my Mk3 Snider so I may give it a go.
Interesting, how many grains in the snider? I would like to compare it with the duplex load.
I will have to ask. I know its 30gn in the Martini Henry with the .470 non paper patched bullets.
Just hope we don't get to the part of some reassembly required .
I have a couple of 577 S and lots of 24 G brass shells all ready to
go just no time yet .
I once had the privilege of shooting a 458 win mag. I found that one round was enough !😂
Thank you for doing this video. I wonder what degree of felt recoil is the product of the projectile's weight? It seems that propelling a very heavy bullet would increase the amount of pressure and bleed some of that pressure off in the form of recoil. Excellent video as always - I always learn something.
Thank you
> I wonder what degree of felt recoil is the product of the projectile's weight?
Conservation of momentum
impulse of bullet + impulse of propellant gasses = -1 x impulse of rifle
velocity of bullet x mass of bullet (+ Velocity of propellant gasses x Mass of propellant) = -1 x (velocity of rifle x mass of rifle)
negative because rifle is moving in the opposite direction, can be omitted for simplicity
50% more bullet mass means 50% more recoil (assuming velocity and propellant etc woud stay the same.
50% more bullet velocity would increase the recoil by 50% , too.
RECOIL IS PROPOTIONAL TO PROJECTILE WEIGHT AND also to PROJECTILE VELOCITY
Increasing both by 41% at the same time would increase recoil by a factor of 1.41x 1.41 = 2 = 200%
Lowering both mass and velocity of the bullet to 70% would reduce recoil to 0.7 x 0.7 = 49%, or about half the recoil.
Slow and heavy means lots of recoil and comparatively low muzzle energy.
Lightweight and fast means much less recoil for the same amount of muzzle energy.
Subjectively felt recoil is, well... subjective, and dependent on a whole lot of other factors.
You made gyrojet rounds, cool BP tracers.
Need to test those last batch at night to see what the smoke trail looks like
Excellent idea
Great video. In almost all black powder rifles over .40 cal I use ed to test them with my MAGGOB (make any gun go ba ng) load which was 14 gr. of Unique. My standard bullet for serious shooting I had an old Lyman .585213 and occasionally occasionally used a Lee .584 real bullet. My cases were Bell basic. I shot thousands of rounds and the primer pockets eventually got so worn out I had to Crazy Glug them into place. My dies were custom made for .585 bullets.
Greta video! Keep busting all the black powder myths you can! May all the doomsayers choke on their spit! I hope to try some of these duplex loads in my 59-95 Winchester. Just need to find some 5744 or my tryH110 . Thanks!
I’m having a real issue understanding the 13 grains of unique loading, and it’s exactly the load I’d like to duplicate for mine. Could you do a video on that exact loading at some point, I’ve looked back through your videos and can’t find one on it and I’m nervous of using smokeless without a detailed guide, thank you very much for your videos and keeping these antiques alive
I can do that.
Great video jake sorry i am so late to the party
still waiting for someone to invent a full auto muzzle loader please, thankyou. lol thanks for uploading
Man it would be really cool to see some 38-55 black powder loads
I wish owned something in 38-55
What can be added to the lube in the hollow base, to get colors in the smoke trail?
I have no idea
Dude your videos are great. I've been experimenting with speeding up smokeless loads with small amounts of black powder to improve performance from snubnose revolvers because of these duplex vids so I'd like you to know if I die I'll haunt you
😂 fair enough
yeah, the home made tracer thing is pretty cool. obviously, you have no way of gathering the actual pressure (numbers), so how do you know if your loads are getting to hot (pressure, not temp obviously) the only b.p. thing I own at this point is a 50 caliber muzzle loader. which I have done a little smokeless experimenting. but a cap and ball revolver is something I am interested in.
If I loaded 577 Snider, the first bullet I would try would be the standard Minie bullet intended for the muzzleloaded rifles.
That’s what these are
Out there making BP tracers! 😅
Be cool to see the tracers shot at longer range!
I still have a bunch of type 3 williams i’ll send you to try in the snider
Interesting ❗👍👍😎🤙
Love it even though I still think it’s playing with fire. Out of a mk3 I would tempt it possibly but black powder is just so simple out of these things idk if I would ever go with anything else maybe pyrodex if BP isn’t available.
I wonder if this “Russian” duplex would work for the balloon head 12ga brass though.
I bet it would
@@Everythingblackpowder I have a handful of old Remington brass I may have to try it with something like Titewad.
The lube was dieseling as we call it in the airgun world
What’s that mean? Compression ignition?
@@Everythingblackpowder yes, in the airgun world you can diesel pellets by adding Vaseline or tallow based lube into the hollow base of a pellet . It will explode and give you 30-40% more velocity. But it will give you inconsistent velocity
Interesting
Great
I noted your use of LP primers. Remember when the JS and Pat Wolf book came out about loading the 45-70 TD and everyone jumped on the magnum primer bandwagon? I did some tests and got the worst MV and fouling with LRM primers. With identical loads, MV was DIY>CCI LP>Fed LPM>Fed LR>Win LRM and fouling ran the opposite direction. The milder primers gave me about 60 fps extra and 15% less fouling. Everyone has different rifles and protocols, but have you noticed this?
I haven’t done extensive testing with magnum primers but in my experience they don’t make much of a difference. Also, with the primer situation being what it is nowadays we can’t afford to be too picky.
@@Everythingblackpowder Roger that. Switching to LP for my BPCR loads and saving the LRs for smokeless milsurps. BTW that priming compound for DIY percussion caps also works in re-worked Boxer primers. PITA to make tho.
I shoot Hammer monolithic bullets out of my 25/06 and the oil in the hollow points leaves a smoke trail. First time I saw it I thought I screwed up.😅😅😅
Interesting
I've never messed with that cartridge but is there a reason one couldn't use an over sized expander ball in the die vs having to run once fired brass?
Looking at the curves for 5744, you're probably getting up around 10-12K PSI not too quickly, but maintaining it. With that fiber wad, I'm going to guess that the 'tracer effect' and the heat transfer into the rifle are both the result of the same thing.... the curve and level are enough to compress that fiber wad and seal it against the case like a piston, and it's compressing the trapped air in the cartridge and igniting the lube with compression heating. Since that extra heat also bleeds into it's surroundings, the gun gets nice and toasty quicker.
Sounds reasonable. Thank you