1337 History of EU5 Anatolia STARTED An ONLINE WAR
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
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6:34 "oğulları" means "sons of" reason it used is actualy turkish nations do not have sur names and every body called with something they are known for or with their fathers name. Non of the ottoman emperors called osmanoğlu ( except the ones wich their fathers name is osman)
if your thesis isnt as long as Mr. Gibbons the decline and fall of roman empire, you are rookie my dear, dont use your thesis as arguement :D
Cilicia is Armenian kingdom here,ruled by hethumian dynasty.
As a Turk i am okey with everything they can make whole Anatolia %101 Greek and Armenian BUT if paradox make Turkish a "levantine" culture...
bro I'll be mad if they make it levantine, for real... xD
As an arab i would if they made a levantine culture group at all
why?
The most flabbergasted thing that was to me in the game was Turkish and Azerbaijani being different culture groups
@@0Melettianatolia is turkish, which is a turkic culture, and the levant is closer to arabic, which is, ofcourse, arabic. The only thing they really have in common is religion and some history
"I have a History degree and a thesis about the Roman Empire." This is the best moment to ask to the right person. Ludi how frequent do you think about the Roman Empire?
Probably every waking and unwaking moment of his life. How else is he going to restore the glory of Rome if he doesn't think of Rome all the time?!?
The answer is probably "yes".
All my waking day and sleeping nights I think about the greatest empire that ever existed
"Every morning I wake up and before I go to bed!" :D
"Yes."
21:00 in the west the belief wasn't that Jesus was half man half God, but fully man and fully God. That distinction is very important.
Indeed
so jesus is a full god?
@@velvet6923 He is supposed to be God in Human form, where he is both fully God, yet remains Human in his form on Earth.
@@velvet6923correct. Jesus is both fully man and fully God. Anything else is considered heresy.
@@velvet6923 not even a full God, just God
I would like to request the safe return of my wallet please Ludi
that will be a left arm and a schekel sir
@@LudietHistoria Best I can do is a like on the video. (I am already subscribed)
@@LudietHistoriano I ate the wallet
As someone lived in Armenia for some time it, it hurts to hear Cilicia being pronounced Silisia instad of Kilikia but apparently it is correct because of Koine shift.
i love you
What Koine shift? Greek doesn’t have C and K was always pronounced the same. Unless you’re talking about Latin.
@@isimerias I guess shift is incorrect term in linguistic perspective. I did a small research and if I got it right, in Koine kappa followed by a wovel was pronounced as /c/ when in Attic it was /k/ (i.e. harder).
Other examples are Κυρηναϊκή, Κύπρος, Κυκλάδες or κέδρος (see IPA transcription for different prononsiations).
So in Latin it was written with 'C' letter, so later (because of other reasons) it is pronounsed as /s/. I don't know why modern Greek pronounse it with a /k/ because I don't know the history of Greek that well.
Because in Cyrillic it was written without all that Latin stuff, I pronounce all those words with K, not S.
@@Andikl1 yeah the IPA /c/ is nothing like /s/, it's simply the front-allophone of the sound /k/, and this also happens in English. Call and kill don't have the exact same k sound. That's the difference
@@Andikl1 My point was just that Greek has nothing to do with the Silisia pronunciation. It’s a Latin thing.
Cant wait for th 50 dlcs this game is going to have
50? you mean 420 right?
More likely Another Imperator Rome
@@rge24491I couldn't ever imagine Paradox giving eu5 the Imperator treatment. Europa is their main baby. It's like expecting a Zelda game to flop, just not gonna happen.
Cant wait for the absolutely terrible and unfun combat system that nobody understands this game's gonna have.
@@jordansedlacek5627europa will never ever have fun combat unfortunately
Thank you ludi for educating me on the name origin of Philadelphia 😂😭 I love/hate how all US place names are old world names
Why hate? I absolutely love it. It encourages me to take a look at the original places and their history. The thing I don't like might be "New ***". Like New Jersey or New Mexico.
Atleast with the US these names are somewhat preserved, while in Anatolia they are forgotten.
no i love it. imo the english+greek names like springfield or sparta are definitely overused imo but i'm always a fan of the shittiest little towns just straight up being named 'poland' 'mexico' or 'peru'
@@phiscz I love Kiribati with its Poland, London, Paris and Banana
@@g1u2y345they are not, they just evolved according to majority language
Ah finally..... Now Paradox's brilliant plan can truly begin: First, get all the turks and greco-roman simps at each other's throats over how many pops "their side" should start out with. Have them fight a civil war over the internet that will finally put the byzantine ones to shame. Then annouce two mutually exclusive DLC's just before the game comes out: one which changes the anatolian pops ridicolously in favour of the greeks, and another which does the same for the turks. Relax, kick back, and PROFIT.
Their genius! It truly has no limits!
The term Byzantine is a modern naming of them and is a false name. “Byzantine” was Eastern Rome, they called themselves Eastern Romans or just Romans.
How tf do you put byzantines to shame explain yourself funny one
@@lachlanf4842Not “Eastern” Rome, just Rome. It stopped being eastern when it became the only part of the empire
Greco bros we are so back
so sad to see how strong their culture was
@@vasilijesamardzic4151the late 1800s and early 1900s were not good times to be a Greek or Armenian in Anatolia
@@yankychannels I wonder why ...
@@yankychannels It's not real, on 1800s there is not too much greek at all
@@godslayer609only 3+million💀
Kurds were not majority in east anatolia until the 19th century
that is accurate yes, it was very mixed in 1300s
@@LudietHistoria in 1300s it was mixture of armenians and assyrians with a very small turkcoman minority kurds were only present in wan maybe
its not even aatolia but yeah they came into power after ottoman sultans gave them lands to suppress other turkic rebellions.
@@turky6834 they also gained land after the armenian genocide
@@LudietHistoriaPopulation increase of Kurds in Anatolia starts with Safavid-Ottoman power struggle. In order to surpress shia Turkomans, Ottoman Empire supports sunni Kurds. Thats way far away from 14th century.
Currently I'm living in the city of Philadelphia. It's a nice city we have plenty of archeological sites around here. Shout out to you btw Ludi your knowledge is great!
As a Turk I don't really care what ends up being portrayed in the game as long as it has some bases from historians. What I want to say is that we should all be happy that as a community and game developers we are at a point where we use literal history books for the basis of our arguments. This shows me how serious and respectful we all are about the game and it's accuracy.
You are a islamised Greek. Not Turk,
As a Greek, for real. Like this game can be a positive influence to the community in general by introducing this scientific way of historical debate.
Despite nationalist flame wars every now and then, the EU (games) community is much less toxic than the Hearts of Iron ones.
@@mmtalii *islamised greek
@@mohammedabdul4832 either way I am not an arab lmao.
I'm watching your video right now from my hometown, Philadelphia/Alaşehir. I was happy that you talked about my hometown in detail.
According to legend, after the conquest, Yıldırım Beyazıt climbed a hill overlooking the city and looked at the city and said, "What a great city (âlâ means beatiful, very good)." Later, the city took the name Alaşehir. According to another rumor, the city was given this name because the stones used in the walls surrounding the city were black and white, thus giving the walls a distinctive appearance (Ala means color consisting of a mixture of several colors, mixed color).
Again, after the conquest, Yıldırım Beyazıt had a mosque built in his name in the city, opposite the Saint John church, which is one of the first 7 churches in Asia Minor. The mosque is still in use (it has no historical appearance as it has been renovated too much over the years.) The ruins of the church are open to visitors as a small open-air museum.
If you happen to be here one day, I would like to host you. I would like to show you our delicious local dishes, natural beauties and historical places.
Ala means the same in Kazakh too
Nice to hear that at least something of the old byzantine world survived in your city brother. Greetings from Athens, Greece
Hey wait a minute, I am living in Alaşehir too. Who the hell are you bro? :D I thought I was the only one who follow this channel
Sign me up for the natural beauties 😂
@georgehaveles8511 also you have a district in Athens called New Philadelphia right? Built for the refugees of 1922
in old Turkish Töre (Cultural laws) succesion law is "State is property of Khan and his Dynasty members" Murad the first of Ottomans change this law (slightly after the stard date) "State is property of Sultan and his sons". Afterwards Mehmet the Conqueror change this law again "State is property of Sultan" last change is made by Sultan Ahmet in 1600s "Oldest and wisest shall rule" and it was basically end of competent rulers because this geniuses decided that imprisoning the heir candidates is a good idea until they suceded to the throne. They tried to prevent succesion wars but homeschooled sultans was both socially and skilfully weak.
Interesting
So basically the obssesion of keeping the empire together led to its eventual downfall ?
Anatolian Greeks largely assimilated and mixed with Turks, and today, Turkish people are essentially descendants of that blend. They are still exist today. Same people genetically.
As a Turkish, yes, this is the case for the majority of the population, however; its a bit more complex than that, I myself have around 25% Central Asian DNA.
@@kadirbozkus-ss3sm it is not the case for the majority bro it is the case for the very minority of people
@@turky6834 not according to literally every genetical study on Turkish people
Anatolian Greeks are just Anatolians who were assimilated by Greeks. Hittites and Lydians, Luwians
No they are not, we have%50 percent Oghuz DNA
Hopefully the underground cities get some representation
that would be cool, maybe as a special building or something?
Less population lost when a city is captured and a higher population capacity @LudietHistoria
I love these videos. Makes me really hyped for EU5 and i always learn something new. Thank you Ludi!
Glad to hear it!
Re Palaiologos vs Komnenos, it's worth pointing out that the Komnenoi of Trebizond are the descendents of Andronikos I Komnenos, the usurping, mass-blinding, latin-massacring, familicidal maniac who in the space of a two-year reign managed to conclusively end the Komnenid restoration (and indeed Komnenid rule in the empire proper), create a power vacuum that would continue until the sack of Constantinople, and bring relations with the West to the nadir that led to that same sack. I'm no Palaiologos-stan, but I'm not sure they're the worst of these two evils!
And yet Alexios I was much better than his grandfather
Great video but I want to point out that Timur did not execute Bayezid, his fate is still unknown (some say he killed himself by drinking the poison from his ring). I'm not 100% sure what exactly happen but as far as I know it was not execution
yeah his fate is unknown, but let's face it, executed is a good ending, he could have been used as a sex toy for all we know
@@LudietHistoria I'm not sure about that, I am also a History student and currently I study Eurasian and Near Eastern Intellectuals and Social History, we read a lot of first hand records from the time of Timur. I came across a lot of writings and letters at that time and It points out that both leaders respected each other, even tho they hated each other over some petty leaders around the region that they contested. Although he may have been exectued "secretly" with poison or something but some historians say that Bayezid was already sick and despair got his ass
Would love to get my hands on some of these letters and writings if you can share bro, sounds intriguing! I know about the poison hypothesis but wanna see some accounts if you have!
@@LudietHistoria Certanly! Letters are mostly worked by Turkish historians like Abdurrahman Daş, again the account of poisoning is worked by Lutfi Pasha and Asikpashazade. I read them in Ottoman Turkish I'm not sure if they are translated. Johann Schilberg, Ruy Gonzalez, Ahmed Arabshah are all good first hand account at time of Timur. Also I want to say its pretty impressing that you both have Piloting and History education, love that!
@@celalal2979 ahahaha I did my history degree when I was 19 but never used it for much, I got my pilot's license when I was 28, much later ^^
06:10 As far as I know, how Yildirim Beyazid died is up to debate right now. Timurlane didn't execute Ottoman Sultan after his defeat. Beyazid was humiliated and imprisoned for 3 years in Samarkand. His death was either a suicide or poisoned by Timur's orders.
It's interesting. Citing a Greek historian as a source and presenting Turkish sources in a biased manner are positive.. Vryonis served as the director of the Alexander S. Onassis Center for Hellenic Studies. It is also known that he is very close to SPGH, Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America and Hellenic Society Prometheas.
Heath w. Lowry, Elizabeth A. Zachariadou, Anhony Bryer, Gilles Veinstein, Steven Runciman these names offer a much different narrative of history. Heath w. Lowry's example is interesting because he mentions that when he arrived at his home after receiving threats, one of the FBI officers he encountered said, "If I were you, I would carry a gun." Stanford Shaw's house was bombed. His office was raided several times. Bernard Lewis was brought to the French court. Therefore, if an objective view of history is sought, I think we need to be more careful about issues ranging from bullying in the academic field to physical violence and threats. A hundred more names can be added to the names I wrote. They are also Turkish (!)
Or they should forget all this and do what South Africa did and appeal to the International Court of Justice. Even though a hundred years have passed since the events, there is no application yet.The success of their lobby is enough when it comes to narrating history.
I fully agree with you. My mention of Vryonis in the video was to point out that Kasper cited him as a source, but what he cited isn't in the book he mentioned. That's why I encouraged people to read the book themselves. Everything he wrote in his post is from turkish sources but he said he got some from byzantine greek fanboys to legitimize his claim. it worked on the forum with people falling for that, but the reality is vryonis doesn't mention any specific numbers in 1337, for that you need to read other books and analyze both sides. Like I said in the video, half the numbers cited by both turk and greek sources, as they would both be biast.
@@LudietHistoria I agree with your take. What Kasper did at best is a mistake, at worst is being intellectualy dishonest.
The ones in Lebanon are the Maronites, who are Syriac christians who accepted Chalcedon, but ended up quite isolated in Lebanon in the middle of the wars between the Byzantines and the Muslims, until the crusades when the Catholics arrive. They are a Eastern Catholic church withtheir own Patriarch of Antioch, and they claim to have never broken communion with Rome during their history. I don't know if Paradox is going to make something different to represent them, that could potentially lead to more Eastern Catholic churches, since during EU% period we'll have things like the Council of Florence and Union of Brest, or if they're just going to be catholic like the ones in Europe
Technically most of us christians believe that Jesus Christ is fully god AND fully man
not 50/50
Can you share your thesis? Or do a video about it? I think it would be interesting.
I can for sure, good idea for a video. Got 2 degrees actually, one in history and another in literature and language with an emphasis on historicity of literary works.
@@LudietHistoria That would be a nice video. You should consider making a history channel if you think you could make the time for it
that was my initial plan with this channel tbh xD
@@LudietHistoria Makes sense - Games and History
Ludi lore is expanding
Yeah @Ludi your whole video is a monologue, man! But a nicely executed one. Good work, thank you.
Appreciated!
Without knowing fuck all about the war, I think for the sake of gameplay the start should be like the 1444 start for france/england in eu4. They're "technically" at war but requires an event to fire for it to escalate.
After quick read up on wikipedia:
Event fired for the byzantine emperor meantime to happen 12 months from start date:
Option 1) Lose core to Nicomedia, lose prestige/legitimacy, pay tribute to the sultan and recieve migration from Nicomedia to Constantinople
Option 2) Reassert claim to Nicomedia, gain prestige/legitimacy and declare war on the sultan.
Option 1 being the closest to history only delayed for gameplay purposes, Option 2 being the option for madlads that are ready to take on the Ottomans despite rebelions raging on in the rest of the empire.
@@saintemz4648 TO ARMS MY MEN, NO GREEK SHALL FALL TO THE VILE HEATHANS, FOR GLORY, GOD AND THE EMPEROR!
As per usual, SPQR shall wage war, the glorydays of the empire shall rise for we only allowed the barbarians to take our lands so we may reclaim what is ours and show the undyne rule of the city and people
As a fellow historian probably we will never know whole story about Anatolian population %100 but documents of old can always help for most accurate description. As an Turk I would never trust Turkish documents because I know how our historians work and it's generally they take their teachers words as proof and make a decree upon it just saying. Nice video btw and I'm very hyped for eu5 and alternate scenarios we will do about Anatolia.
Anatolia look like a very fun area to play in EU5. As a Turkish of course i will first play Ottomans thinking they give them more flavor than others but will try everything in this area.
What did Turks expect the region has been Greek since Alexander the Great
Some people get angry for the sake of it.
İ dont think many people feel offended or something. İt is history and it is past. We should enjoy the game
Nobody is offended lol. But cultures should be represented correctly like any other region.
We turks aren't offended by it and we take pride in being able to conquer these lands what we are offended that you guys still claim our lands when its been centuries
@@sezginozcann no claims your land people are just upset some turks have been actively denying the Greek Armenian Assyrian genocide
Ludi as a fellow hisorian i just love it when you spill the knowledge
10:12 Everyone in Tarsus has an olive tree. Me and my family live in the center of the city, but even we have an olive tree.
I loved learning about the city of Philadelphia. I had no idea that's where the name came from as an American. And as far Greek culture in Anatolia there was a semi-recent trend on social media where young turks took dna tests and to their dismay found out that a good portion of them were majority Greek heritage. Especially costal areas. I also think that BYZ should start at war, its not certain they'll win or loose and could set up a sort of dynamic swing for how the area plays out.
My Heritage does not identify ancient Anatolian DNA (Hittite Phrygian etc) in its system. For this reason, ancient Anatolian DNA was shared between the Greeks and Western Asia. The most Turkish DNA appears in the West, where there were many Turkish settlements. Turks are mostly a mixture of ancient Anatolians and Turks. not greek
@@KhanTonyukuk Sure, keep believing that. Ignore the giant Greek migrations that occurred from the Mycenaean era all the way to the Greek revolution. Thousands of years of Greek migration are simply wiped away by a small nomadic group. As for the "Anatolian" DNA, you can't even specify which one because once you realize how many nations have passed through Anatolia, you will come to realize that most of the architecture that remains is predominantly Ancient Greek and medieval Greek compared to the "Anatolians." Additionally, some Greek tribes of farmers were originally from Anatolia.
@@KhanTonyukuk "For example, supervised STRUCTURE (K = 3) illustrates a genetic ancestry for the Turks of 45% Middle Eastern (95% CI, 42-49), 40% European (95% CI, 36-44), and 15% Central Asian (95% CI, 13-16), whereas at K = 4 the genetic ancestry of the Turks was 38% European (95% CI, 35-42), 35% Middle Eastern (95% CI, 33-38), 18% South Asian (95% CI, 16-19), and 9% Central Asian (95% CI, 7-11)." - An NIH Article for the National Center of Biotechnological Information(NCBI)
@@ChronosHellas Unfortunately, a Greek does not have the privilege of changing scientific facts for his own pleasure. What you wrote is not scientific, it is your own imaginary conclusions. There was no migration to Anatolia from the Mycenaean period until the Greek Revolution. B.C. In the 8th century, there were migrations to the Anatolian coast in the form of colonies. Apart from this, there was no migration. Not a handful of Turks came to Anatolia, but millions of Turks. This migration continued for centuries. Today, it is quite simple to distinguish Neolithic Anatolian DNA. No matter which nations passed through Anatolia, they can be easily distinguished by a quality DNA company that processes ancient DNA. The ancient Greeks did not have Anatolian DNA. During the Byzantine period, the people in Anatolia were Hellenized native Anatolians. Moreover, the architectural works made by the native Anatolians are older than the Greeks. Neolithic Anatolian farmers are not Greek tribes or ancestors of the Greeks, but have different genetics, languages, religions and alphabets. The Greeks were formed as a result of the ethnogenesis of Indo-European immigrants from Central Europe and local Aegean peoples. In this context, Anatolians and Greeks are two separate groups with different genetic and cultural origins throughout history. Although interactions emerged over time, they initially had different origins.
@@KhanTonyukuk The ancestors of the Greek are literally farmers from Anatolia, Jesus Christ you haven’t even studied the pre civilized migrations of the indo-European groups, no wonder you have zero clue what you are talking about, without a single proof to back it up. I won’t even try to go about your “older Anatolian” architecture when most of your popular museums are showing the Greek theaters, churches, gymnasiums, baths, the and the agora’s. Literally all your cities have Greek names Ἄγκυρα, Προῦσα, εἰς τὴν Πόλιν "to the City" (aka Istanbul) εἰς Σμύρνην "to Smyrna, εἰς Μήδειαν "to Nicomedia", εἰς Νίκαιαν "to Nicaea, Ικόνιο, Τραπεζούντα, Κερασούντα, Σεβάστεια, Ριζούντα. I can still keep going but the list is too long, now how many cities have their so called “Anatolian” names?
@21:00 not 50/50, but fully human and fully divine. Otherwise, nice video.
Jup. Wasnt half half.
But to be fair, Can see why he had it wrong
Shit makes no sense. (in my opinion)
my hype for EU5 grows with every video
To my understanding, in EU4 the ai struggles a bit with being at war on day 1, which is why they moved away from that over time. They might just be trying to avoid having a similar issue.
If Byz and the Ottos were to start at war, though, I feel like Nikomedia should start out *occupied* by the Ottomans rather than fully owned by them.
No i agree %100 that ottomans cleaned greeks from asia minor as a Turk.
But from having a family from Karamans and forcefully settled to greece (drama,soloniki) at 14-15th centry and my mothers side sent to bulgaria.
Greeks and bulgarians did the same while ottomans were declining and forcefully moved turks from balkans in 19th centrury.
I went to greece to visit my old village and sadly no one lives there anymore and only old abandoned buildings, because they were massacred and forcefully moved and probably same goes for greeks in anatolia.
Heya there Ludi! Was your thesis in support of a Master''s degree? Nice to see another higher academia brother out there in history. (Fanboy moment: love your channel)
Yes it was! NERDS UNITE REEEEE
@@LudietHistoria YES NERDS UNITE!! I am defending in two weeks. I really should be practising for the defence, but an EU5 dev diary just came out and I need to listen to one of my favourite TH-camrs correct some historical revisionists XD
you got this bro, good luck. Stay calm, sound confident and don't hesitate with your words and you're golden on it!
I assume the objectivities of a book written by a Greek and another written by Turkish History Association are similarly questionable. Maybe we can agree the situation was somewhere in the median line regarding the cultural distribution.
They aren’t similarly questionable. The evidence heavily supports the book rather than what the Turkish History Association says. Like Ludi said, these Greek populations still existed in the 19th century, if the regions were already Turkish in the 1300s, where did the population come from? Just doesn’t make much sense.
@@g1u2y345 The rise of the Turks is about integrating the cultures, you can easily see this in the court of Ottomans. Therefore, you guys assume that the Turks are butchered western coast of people and settled down. This is not true.
@@g1u2y345 Greeks migrated to Izmır in the 1800s, before that they were a minority, in Izmir. For other Greeks in Trabzon, Karaman, etc. yes you are right.
@@kaancelik4168 Source for this? I tried finding anything about it and there is nothing. You know Turks used to call the city "Gavur Izmir," you know what that means? I'm sure many Greeks did migrate to the city in the 1800s, but all evidence points to them being a continuous majority in the city all the way until 1922.
@@g1u2y345 Although the Greek population in Izmir was high, it was less than the Turkish population in Izmir. The reason why the Turks call it Gavur Izmir is that all the trade in the city is done by Greeks, unlike the Turks. For this reason, it is called this way among the people.
It will be so satisfying to make this all Greek, Armenian and Assyrian.
The decrease in the Greek population in Western Anatolia is due to the mutual agreement of 30 January 1923. Turks from Greece were sent to Turkey and Greeks from Turkey were sent to Greece
I feel like the Turk population was higher in this period, not eu4 level but its hard to see without seeing the full demographic.
i rather if they started in peace, just so i can decide if i want to go to war or not
Correction: Bayazid was not executed by Timur, he is believed to die either from a posion wich he hidden inside his ring and drank it or died of giref. But yeah... Why the hell would you attack him, THE TIMUR
Other then that yeah it happened pretty much as you said
yes indeed
Maronites of Lebanon around that time were living in Lebanon/Syria more specifically the Lebanon Mountains & the Orontes River in Syria. Also they were a large population in Aleppo as well as Antioxeia living with orthodox & muslims.
You're being accused of lying by the guy you're criticising. You should go on the forums and defend your name.
When Ludi begins by "Remember that I have an History degree" you know the video will be golden
Turkey try not to spread Turkish propaganda challenge (impossible)
All world believing the jews propaganda, and we propaganding the truth
Better than the poopoo western propaganda. I would prefet to be the part of the turkic world instead of being the part of the western world where not all fathers are sure they are taking care of their biological kids. As well as not all kids have seen their fathers face to face ever.
@@goldenhate6649 No matter how much the Greeks tried to hide it, Anatolia was not Greek at first. It was later Greekised. Ancient Anatolians lived here. Turks are learning the history of ancient Anatolia. Unlike the Greeks, it embraces and incorporates civilizations such as Hittite Phrygian from Ancient Anatolia. The symbols of some brands in Turkey come from civilizations such as the ancient Hittite Phrygians.
@@KhanTonyukukmaybe but the nation is unable to come to terms with its genocides of the 20th century
@@MohammedAli-hl4mr This claim is quite common, but people do not see the Turks who were subjected to genocide. This is a complex issue. Allegations of genocide were rejected by the United Nations. The President of Armenia did not use the word genocide for the events of the 20th century. But if the lie spreads widely, it will be perceived as the truth. Those who lose the war always have an excuse.
Actually Göktürk DNA is higher in Western Anatolia than Middle Anatolia today. For Example in Mugla region it is %48 which is the highest one, however in Ankara it is %31 according to collective results of individual tests.
You guys have no turkish central asian DNA mate, every dna test online you have is armenian iranian or greek, some iranians in east have more turkish DNA than you
Thank you for the video Ludi. The idea of a Hellenized Central Anatolian population assimilating into Turkish culture easier than the coastal Greek population did was very thought provoking. Can you recommend any sources for that?
From your and the Turkish guy's perspective and thoughts on the culture issue, I would say I'm kind of between two of your opinions. I would say that there would be slightly more Turkish people on the Western Aegean Provinces (More of non-coastline provinces) and also the regions of Bursa/Kocaeli. I'm really not too sure but it does need a little change.
Funny thing is that kurds didn’t step into Anatolia till the 16th century with the orders of Selim I to suppress the Kizilbas(alevi turqomans.). They’ve became more populated in 19th century Even then it was not a “land culture”. There were just small groups and villages that was limited to cities like Hakkari and Sirnak.
This is false, Kurds already had Emirates in that region before 1337 hence the big population and the expansion to west of Anatolia started after the battle of Chaldiran
Biji kurd u kurdistan her biji pkk
Emperor Constantine XI Palaiologos died during the siege of Constantinople. So as far as i know palaiologos dynasty didn't subject themselves to the ottomans unti their last breath
Bro mpes wikipedia. Sta ellinika to arthro den leei tipota alla sta agglika leei. Apla psaje palaiologos kai mpes sto article
Hey Ludi, around 6:30-ish you guessed that "ogullari" is the way of naming a dynasty in turkish which was correct! It means "the sons of" just like how the vikings used their fathers names like "Ragnarsson."
After 2-3 generations turks changed the "ogullari" with just "li-lu." For example Osmanli (Ottoman) Selcuklu (Seljuk Empire) - it basically means "those from Osman/Selcuk(establisher of the dynasty." All the anatolian turks were calling themselves "those from the Baylik Oghuz" before they established their own houses. I don't know if this was originally a turkic tradition because you don't see the turks naming themselves after dynasties and the dynasties after their establishers before they mixed with the persians. Maybe you can do some research about this and find something interesting about it, i always love the small history lessons you give us in your videos!
Trust me, by 1350 turkish won't be an issue anymore in my games.
Ottoman snowball will feel even better this time
It is a WAY better game to start from a smallish weakish place and take one small advantage and use it to wreck the world.
Playing as the existing winners is less interesting.
I wonder if you can influence secondary cultures in your empire.
This is the official petition to mr. Ludi to ask him to do more historical monologues like that about Philadelphia OR maybe even do a separate kind of videos talking about such interesting events! It would sinergyze with the content and the audience very nicely IMO.
The bit about central Anatolia being "half-Greek half-people from before the Greeks" isn't accurate for when the Turks arrived. The last paleo-Anatolians were the Isaurians, who did live in central Anatolia, but they assimilated centuries before Manzikert. Central Anatolia before the Turks was mostly Greek with probably an Armenian minority and maybe some small Turkic groups that had settled there earlier at the behest of the Byzantines.
they were Galatians rements still live there
@@samtheman4931 Do you have any evidence of that? Because Galatians (as in the specific Celtic people) are barely mentioned after the end of their independence, which is more than a thousand years prior.
Stop talking like turkish right wingers who claim everything there is pure turkic. The cultures mix. If the greeks did not find the area full of emptiness, there were people whom the greeks did mix with. Peace.
@@samtheman4931Culturally they were long assimilated by the 6th century CE.
The Isaurians are the last Native Anatolian people in the sources and they lost their identity after the 6th-7th century
@@dantepr1566Stop talking like a modernist who thinks "mixing" is normal. It never was, especially not in Anatolia.
Didn't expect a bunch of history majors having an essay battle in the forum.
Also, how many content creators like Ludi have a History degree?
Oh boy. Speed running historical ottoman expansion in tbis game will be magnificent
As someone with a degree in cartography is nice to see a fellow romanian with a degree that loves map games.
Ludi can we please have regular updates about your olive tree
As someone who had their history thesis specifically on Ottoman identity, yes, yes this map is just fine
I’m actually interested in reading Lidi’s thesis.
LOVE you Talking about history, also well told and engaging
Quality is steadily improving. Listening to your fans, tweaking style ect. Quality video, if I could subscribe twice I would
Guys hear me out!
Ottomans never called their state as ottomans but rather "Devlet-i Aliyye" meaning "Great State".
So, once Ottomans get Kostantiniyye, they should be named Devlet-i Aliyye.
My suggestion is that any Turkish Beylik should be able to form the Devlet-i Aliyye.
6:35 Dynasty names in the end of every beylik (oğulları) means "Sons of", for example "Osmanoğulları" means "Sons of Osman"
Just for the record, Anatolia, up until 14th-15th century were majority Greek and Armenian. Any Turk who claims otherwise doesn't know what he's talking about.
The Sultanate of Rum or "Anadolu Selcuklu Devleti" (State of Anatolian Seljuks) as it is called in Turkish nowadays, was called that because the people they ruled over were Romans (Rum = Rome/Roman).
In fact, up until 1923 (when population exchange happened) there was a relatively large population of Greeks and Armenians residing in Anatolia still.
That said, I object to that map being named "cultures" when it should be "ethnicities".
Because culturally speaking Turks were like a sponge. They absorbed the culture of wherever they went and adopted into their own culture. As they passed through Iran, they adopted parts of Iranian culture and language, when they arrived in Anatolia they adopted the Roman culture into their way of life, from language to architecture to military tradition most of what is today "Turkish" is actually an amalgam of Greek and Persian cultures.
Even today, despite 200 years as separate countries, Greeks and Turks are basically cut from the same cloth. So it doesn't make much sense to me to separate them.
But of course, we are talking about a company who has made the decision to display Azeris as a wholly separate "culture" to Turks. So whatever.
Speaking of ancient city names that the US of A took. Did you know, that within the United States there are two towns very close to each other with the names Rome and Carthage. Found them randomly while playing Geoguessr. Also yo Ludi you got like a small cupboard space that I could move into in Japan, would appreciate.
There are several Kurdish cultures and dialects btw. And there were a lot more Christians in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Iraq than people think in the Middle East until the 14th century at least. Many historians believe these places were majority Christian until the 14th century when the crusades and Mongols pushed Islam and muslim rulers to be a lot more pushy about conversion and religious jurisprudence. Syria, Lebanon and Northern Iraq may have even continued to be majority Christian until the Ottoman pogroms of 1915-1918 while eastern Turkey was did have a qualified majority of Armenians all the way to these same pogroms telling us they were likely an absolute majority in earlier centuries (although difficult to say with the Timurid massacres).
Ludi area around Antioch at that period must have have a lot of Alawite you forgot.
Okay Ludi, you asked and you shall receive:
My allegiance is to the Republic, to Democracy!
By the way _-oğlu_ just means "son of" in Turkish. _-Oğulları_ is the plural form.
It's not necessarily a dynastic modifier/identifier, even though they are also used in that way in this context, it is a common form of last name in Turkish. Like -son/-sen in Swedish/Danish.
Osmanoğlu literally means "son of Osman" or as a Swedish person might put it, Osmanson.
As such Karamanoğulları = Sons of Karaman, Çandaroğulları = Sons of Çandar etc.
Great video as always!!!
@ludiethistoria thank you for just being great with the historical stuff. As a fellow history degree earner, it drives me nuts when people do stuff like Kaspar did.
Most of the inaccuracies of this map come from the fact that it doesn't show muslim Greeks. Many Greeks, before they were Turkified, converted to Islam, which is non-existent in the map. Considering that Turks ruled those lands for more than a century, there should be some Muslim Greeks. The majority of Turks came to Anatolia fleeing from the Mongols, and most of these Turks settled on the western or westernish side of Anatolia (expension of The Ottoman Empire is partially caused by it) there should be a little more Turks in western parts that are not close to the coast.
They arrived 2 centuries before the Mongol invasion. However, later, while the Turks were in Anatolia, under the pressure of the Mongols, the Turks in Central Asia also migrated to Anatolia and their population increased.
Greeks and Serbs are two ethnic groups which refuse to consider Muslim converts and their descendants part of their fold. Muslim Greeks are therefore considered Turcofied for all practical purposes regardless of the language they speak.
Ludi, do you agree that Komnenos not only are based, but the whole name is beautiful and nice to pronounce? It sounds epic.
You guys don’t use the correct pronunciation. It’s sounds way better with the correct one.
5:54
That might not be completely true as Ottomanids have also been granted the castle of Tsympe (in Turkish Çimpe Kalesi) by emperor Kantakuzenos to show his gratitute and as retribution for helping him in his struggle for the throne of Byzantine.
The castle was given over during the civil war(Ioannis the V. vs Kantakuzenos) to the Ottomanids by Kantakuzenos for them to use it as a base of operations. Which they have refused to return after the war.
During the civil war the son in law of emperor, Orhan Ghazi (husband of Theodora) was to accompany him with a host of 20k in his clash with Ioannis the V. in Thrace.
The result of the occasion would be the first ever foothold of Ottomanids in Balkans and the beginning of the end of Roman Empire would come from a gift of a stronghold in a key position.
Hey Ludi. Long time viewer. I know you are not Eastern Orthodox anymore but I am. I am actually a convert to the Eastern Orthodox (EO) faith from Protestant. In addition, my wife is actually Coptic(Miaphysite). I have done a lot of research into the Coptics due to my wife. Here is what I found because you actually explained the differences wrong. Not a huge deal but just trying to make you more accurate. Both the Coptics and EO believe in both natures of Christ. He is both fully human and fully God. He is not half and half. Christ is not a demi-god. The difference between EO and Coptics is a bit more complex. But to simplify it, EO believe in two distinct wills. Christ had a God will and a human will. But his human will was submissive to his Godly will. Thus the EO are Dyophysite. The Coptics believes Christ only had one will the Godly will. Other than that Coptics are 99% the same as EO.
I think E.R.Emp/Byz and the Ottomans should start the game at peace with each other, HOWEVER there should be an event that start a war between them, just like the event "The surrender of Maine" between England and France from EU4.
Ludi at 21:54 I think the Lebanese Christians you’re thinking of are the Maronites but they are in Communion with Rome at this time so they would show up as Catholic or should at least. This is why I wish that they’ll add Rites in this game to show the different Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic and Protestant Churches. For example the Latin rite, Ambrosian rite, Mezoarabic rite, Sarum rite, Maronite rite, Byzantine rite, and the Rite of Lyon for the Catholic Church
Hi Ludi, just curious, which Europa Universalis title have you started playing since?
What do you think about such apparent move from more "arcade" gameplay to more realistic and simulation one?
I hope they somehow figure out a way to represent rapid turkification of Anatolia. They can add a modifier that speeds up the assimilation process i guess. Most forget this but Ottoman Empire had a larger christian population throughout most of its history, it was a Balkan state not an Anatolian one. Anatolia was turkified because Mongols drove Turks away to Anatolia.
Ck2 style melting pot would work actually
22:11 Paulicians, Pavia says it in the desciption...
In EU4 I always go Trebazoid into Byzantium. Despite being a much harder start and it will take roughly 80 to 100 years to take Anatolia and the Bulkans, you will be battling a debt spiral the entire time unless you establish the gold mine early (which you must! I never did until just before I swapped over, I am 6K in debt and it took me till 1626 to form Byzantium because of it), But once you establish control over the whole area your GDP will be high enough that you'll be making 30 to 40 ducats a month and you can consolidate your debt into 6 to 10 loans, at which point the banks won't care anymore due to how good your GDP is, meaning you can take up to 100K loans before you go bankrupt, but still, better to start paying off at this point; The AI will pull silly nonsense to delay you, but once you form, you start is a much more powerful position, you also can immediately reform the Government soon as you form Byzantium, won't start with any negative locked in estate privileges (but for some weird reason they're available to assign); Seems Paradox never thought players would actually pull it off, because they never bothered adding a unique Trebazoid version of Byzantium, nope just the default, with the default mission tree when you form, which is weird because it includes the mission where you get the buff for deposing... yourself but you're still in charge... what? lol. In the process you also finish half the mission tree instantly too. Will have insane buffs for 15 to 20 years out the gate, then you can stomp Venice and whoever else is still around in the area holding territory you're after right away, regardless of the AI pulling nonsense such as hiring 60K worth of Mercenaries (which they often do now). Oh and the Mamluks and QQ (which is often still around with a Treb start) are easily swept aside by you if you ally Ethiopia.
The Russians have been notoriously unreliable as an ally in EU4 since patch 1.36, still are to this day. They are constantly in incredibly high debt, so always refuse to help. The best you can do is try to PU them at some point; You do need to ally them and royal marry them or PU them to complete two different mission trees after you finish the Treb mission tree, assuming you flip to Georgia, if not, just for Byzantium. By that point your AI Polish Ally or Hungarian ally will turn on you anyway and you won't need them anymore either.
I imagine a 1337 start will be much easier for Trebazoid, assuming your neighbours are more focused on each other instead of forming alliance webs around you to block expansion. (which EU4's AI does now - has done so since 1.34).
strategy games is simply incapable of depicting Turkish (Turkic) nomadic lifestyle.
And why they divided Turkish and Turkomans this is just not right. Unless they use the same Turkoman identity for Turks of the Caucasian and Azerbaijani regions only in that case it would make sense
@@goldenhate6649 Turks are not limited to the Ottoman Empire
@@goldenhate6649 Mehmed II literally disliked the Turcomans Afaik thats why he did priorize the balkans
@@goldenhate6649that lifestyle wasnt completely destroyed till modern era.
They were avoiding taxes, moving around and were hard to control.
The religion you are looking for in Lebanon is Maronite. Today it is officially a subset of the catholic church but in 1337 it would be considered an orthodox rite. They would also constitute a majority specifically in Lebanon.
In east blacksea there is no olive production. Hazelnut, tea and especially Trebizond has gold mines.
I am actually from the original Philadelphia aka. Alaşehir how is it known today. Please come and be ours guests 😁
You can't juist divide a map into kebap and gyros and not expect a culture war.
20:47 This is not a very accurate description. The Council of Chalcedon (which is accepted by the Western branches of Christianity, i.e. Catholicism, Orthodoxy) states that Christ has two natures - one divine, one human, neither mixed nor separated - united in one person (diaphysitism) thus making Christ fully human and fully God, but the miaphysites (or monophysites) affirm that Christ has one unified divine/human nature. This represents an overcorrection from Nestorianism, which was condemned at the earlier Council of Ephesus, which overly separates the two natures.
I refer the reader to Redeemed Zoomer‘s video on heresies (Every heresy explained in 9 minutes), which goes into Miaphysitism, Monophysitism and Nestorianism (plus it‘s done very humourously).
Were you a history teacher or at least go to the university as a history teacher? I had some history teachers at the university that were really cool like you. There are a lot of fun and made the class humorous
Wow Ludi has a history degree in creme ala creme of history!
Wow Olive tree in Japan! I hope it grows beautiful and strong. One of my prefered trees with holly oak or normal oak.
In the Middle East, large areas were given to Kurds. In fact, the Seljuks who came there brought Turkish tribes. When they entered Anatolia, they did not encounter Kurds, they encountered Byzantium. There is the Artuqid State, a 100% Turkish tribe, but the culture also says Kurdish.
This vast area does not actually belong to them, it only belongs to the Turks, the Great Seljuk State, then the Anatolian Seljuk State and the small states that emerged after them were all Turks and their people were also Turks.
What I remember of the otto-byz situation Osman the founder of the house died before he could capture Bursa, which was the one of the major cities in the region, first proper walled city the ottobros took by guile or desertion can't remember. After that the Emperor sent another army to relieve another city Nicomedia, that army got wiped. I don't understand why the ottos wouldn't start with war ongoing with the byz, they were literally sieging the city when the game begins for years now. Generally what helped the ottos were the desertion of the byz anatolian nobles. In the reign of Beyozid 1389, he used Anatolian troops staunch muslims to fight in the Balkans and Rumely(European) troops to fight the other turkic beyliks on the mainland for loyalty issues. Well not in 1402 lol.
If the ottos don't start at war they should start with an unhistorical peace agreement of some sort, and ofc ottos don't have a navy at the start or any idea how to make one.
I hope they add the Iskan policy for the ottomans or other turkish beyliks so it would be easier to change culture in the game compared to eu4. Same thing can be added to greek culture nations via ancient colonizing methods. That would be make the game more fun around anatolia
Shouldn’t Nicomedia be occupied from the start rather than belong to ottomans? They’re still at war over its control as far as I know