@@TheHK_47 everyone is sucking off helldivers constantly. That is one exception to the general trash heap of live service games. It actually proves that live service is trash
To piggyback on what Luke said, it's not just pulling people from a different game. They need to get them to keep coming back. In order to do that, they need to constantly create new content for the game. They need to have teams dedicated to addressing bugs and optimizing gameplay. The problem is that these studios release the games and abandon them. Why would gamers play a live service game that gets empty and lackluster updates every 3 months over a game that gets an update with new content and gameplay fixes every two weeks?
@@MrRezRisingFortnite is the perfect example. They started out doing weird base defence game mode, pivoted and did a battle Royale shooter BETTER than games that had been out for years. To this day, it is still receiving novel content that keeps the game fresh.
@@tommasopisapia7464 I'd say Path of Wxile more than Warframe. The latter is very tedious and grindy and other inconveniences added to the game purely to make people buy plat.
I agree warframe can be grindy and tedious but it's the only game I've been able to earn premium currency consistently. The player driven market is thriving and people are constantly looking for even the most basic mods/weapons. Thats putting aside the fact if you want to put in the time, you can make nearly any loadout viable This coming from somone who has played the game for hundreds of hours and has only spent money to support the game, not because I felt like I needed to. .@@whyisthisathingnow...
Which is the same with every trend in gaming, we had the same with MMOs, same with MOBAs, same with battle Royale mode, live service isn’t even a new concept it’s essentially ending up back at the beginning with MMOs but with new wrapping paper
I agree, all seem to follow the exact same recipe that people saw it worked for someone sometime. No desire to build something innovative, to build a community and whatnot. Like the goal is to replace, to basically steal players from others rather than be something on their own.
@@somnorila9913 again that’s every trend in gaming, either you set the trend, improve the trend or copy the trend. The problem with setting the trend and being original is you don’t know it’s going to work until it does, plenty of brilliantly innovative games fall by the wayside cause they don’t capture the public’s attention. It’s not exactly surprising that people would rather invest time and money into the equivalent of marvel movies when they actually make money rather then take risks that fail hard. I also don’t think people give the publishers enough credit when they do put out genuinely original ideas, I still remember the crazy feeling of discovering assassins creed for the first time, a franchise so unique no one has even come close to making a copy of it.
When every game is asking for all your time, especially during a time where people are having less and less, it's hard to find players. Helldivers 2 knows this, and that's why the game is so unpunishing to people that don't play for a while. You still get to claim your order rewards, you still can unlock all the warbonds, you can grind as much as you want when you want.
Maybe, if that's so then it's a good approach. I always seen and hated the approach of always focusing on new players while not just ignoring but rather alienating old players. I understand why, it's about money. But for me a good game is about the spirit of it, for fun, for the feeling and emotion, the community, even the technology and gameplay approach, trying new things, fine tuning old things and whatnot. Money should not even be a goal. The only monetary aim should be enough to maintain it, evolve and continue existing. Not profits, but just enough income to cover the expenses. You know, wages mostly while not taking any credits. Companies to focus on resilience over time instead of big payouts fast. To value employees rather than use them as fodder.
Honestly, I'm 90% sure they are so focused on live service because it 'prevents piracy' regardless of whether or not people actually want to play live service games.
That's exactly why a lot of games are going online. It sucks because they really don't need to like exclusively multi-player games I can understand. It's games like hitman that made me question why it was online only.
@@Doggies-Styl yeah a decade or so they tried it on a LOT of single player games but everyone had an outcry that they needed internet to play these games. i think most turned their back on them but the industry just learned to not make those kinds of games... which is annoying but well, indie devs have free reign to make these types of game now.
You know what prevents piracy? Access, easy access and respect. Oh, and proper price for the value. Make a good game and sell it in a way that is easy for the consumer to access it anytime anywhere, at a decent price. You don't have to spend anything for any anti piracy approach. People will pirate it anyway. And that is not bad as it's pretty much advertising and a factor that generates community too. With time you'll get more than enough paying customers. You don't have to think of people playing pirated copies as potential money in your pocket that you lost but as potential future customers that you will gain.
It's actually not hard to pull people initially into a game. People like having multiple GOOD games to play. The problem is, there are certain players who will give games multiple chances but most won't. Most try it, it sucks, and they don't come back bc they cherish the few good games they have. We're all mostly adapting to how studios are screwing us and just not giving some studios 2nd or 3rd chances.
Helldivers 2 is from a well-respected developer, from 1 and Magicka 1 & 2, and no history of live service trash. Its not a PVP microtransaction debacle, so it can't be called anything similar to the live service messes of those described CEOS. A better lesson for those CEOs might be to not make live service games xD
You just have to make a good game. Something a lot of these studios don’t seem to be capable of. Helldivers is new and something we haven’t really seen for live service that’s why it works so well. Companies just want to copy everyone instead of coming up with a real idea
Nah, they should keep doing it. It'll help the gaming community weed out many of the bad corporations. Then most of whoever is left will still be standing because they actually have something to offer. Most of these AAA studios don't have any talent anymore. All the talent left to do their own thing so the companies that are merely a shell of their former selves, sadly, need to close down
There is nothing wrong with your thinking, but there are a lot, and I mean a lot of great studios that are being forced to work on Live Service that I’m not willing to lose. Naughty Dog and Rocksteady right off the top of my head.
This, but you also have to remember that with a limited amount of players, there's a limited number of time each, and not everyone can play multiple games. My three current live service games, well four including the long abandoned TF2. Is Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail, and Deep Rock Galactic. Because those games for the most part respect players times and money, mine at least, I am able to play games inbetween them. They're what I'd call time neutral games. Where the battle passes aren't hard to max. And the time needed to get all rewards is quick (Deep rock especially) So I don't see myself moving to another live service game until these games I currently play are finished or abandoned. With TF2 being one I just drop in and out of.
I remember the same thing happening with MMOs about 12 years ago. So many companies wanted what WoW had but couldn’t realise there were only so many losers willing to pay $10 a month and keep playing a game forever.
I onlynplay single player games.. I wont buy a game with microtransactions, or drm.. And I have no problem waiting 2 years for a sale I like to OWN my games, and play them years later! Im strange that way, with atuff I pay for
To be successful you have to bring something new, if you just make your own fortnite why the hell would people play that over fortnite. But if you create an amazing new game (like helldivers 2) then people will leave their old game for your new one
The thing about is that you have to realize a lot of these games are only becoming fad games they’ll be popular on the internet for a month or two then their life of relevancy ends thus hurting the dev team
@ScornedState helldivers 2 is still the best selling game on steam right now (including mtx), even if helldivers 2 dies in a year or two, helldivers three will be made and the cycle can continue
helldivers 1 is the exact same game, the only difference is the camera. I wouldnt call helldivers 2 new necessarily, just got the right hype behind it.
The funny thing is, this EXACT scenario already happened with WOW and the rush for all these studios to make their own MMO. But surprise surprise, WOW fans just played WOW. We're just getting that whole situation being repeated now with live service. Why do execs never learn?
Helldivers being not $60 really helped imo. That $20 'discount' is really massive in a sea of dogshit $70 games which are gutted to shit unless you pay $90 for the full edition.
It reminds me of the late 2000’s into the 2010’s when everyone was making an MMO. They all saw the success of WoW and RuneScape and thought they would do the same, but people didn’t really want to leave those games they had dumped a thousand hours into to try a new MMO that might suck or die within a year.
In a years time there will be like 5 subpar Helldivers clones with half the content and twice the MTX. Corporations will consistently learn the wrong lessons from available data, sure as clockwork
General flow of the industry is some small team will do something actually creative and the big companies, afraid of risk. Will spend the next decade cloning it relentlessly until the next actually creative product pops up
So, I gave up most multi-player games. Helldivers 2 is reminiscent of L4D2 of just fun gameplay, and it reinforces your behavior so you want to be a good player and help others as well
Hell Divers merges multiple corners of the gamersphere. All the Halo ODST fans who already called themselves Hell Divers with the motto “Feet First Into Hell”, 40k Brothers just excited to purge Xenos for the Imperium of Man, movie buffs playing out Starship Troopers. Get everyone in here to do their part
Every year there is an opportunity for the gaming market to be upended out of nowhere by a surprise fun experience. That experience is never going to be the game that you think can take over. It just never will be predictable.
Lets not forget that people despise live service games as a whole. Its easy to say "Look at HellDivers 2, its so successful and its live service!" But I can guarantee you its not the live service part of that game that people like. In fact not even that long ago it annoyed people to no end because they couldn't connect to play the game.
This. It’s going to be VERY hard for a game to pull me away from Apex legends. Been playing since launch. Before that, I played Siege from its launch. And before that, CS.
I have 100 percent stopped buying and paying attention to any AAA or live service games. They just release broken, not fun, micro transaction riddled games. I only support AA and indie devs until shit changes. I lnow im not the only one. There are a lot of people who have left that market as well, and the studios wont gain their trust back.
Agree 100%. The live service business model was only set up to succeed a limited number of times, and unfortunately, the first few developers that adapted the model are the ones that are successful. Of course there are exceptions, but just like its stated here, it's few and far between. Most gamers don't want it, and most developers don't want to do it. Hopefully we can leave it behind in the next decade or two.
To expand, its that glut in the market. There is definitely space for live service games but *not that much space*. You cant expect runaway successes when Fortnite, Apex, Helldivers, Overwatch, R6 Siege, whatever 20$ multiplayer indie game is out at the time are all dominating space and attention. This isnt even a new problem because its what happened to the MMO space in the early 2000s. You could not beat wow because WoW dominated player counts and kept them yet the industry insisted on trying despite the fact that most mmos never got past a niche status
all the long term successful games , had one thing in common, a Great Solo story. everything after is just a bonus. the studios have forgotten what sells games , it is certainly not overpriced skins.
Vast majority of live service games came out unfinished and severely lacking content for what it supposed to be, which is like starting a race with legs tied up.
Exactly what helldivers did to me from warframe...1300 hrs on warframe...if helldivers have expansions like warframe id definitely be 1300 hrs in that game too
A big reason why a lot of us in the Battlefield scene are expressing that Premium needs to come back for the franchise. The "live service" of 2042 for example, is a dumpster fire of content drought, drip fed almost nothing with core mechanics that still don't work years after release.
They aren't succeeding with live service games because they are trying to monetise the soul out of it. Helldivers 2 is live service and they are succeeding because fun comes first and they made an incredibly fun game, where any microtransaction is a choice (you can earn it all for free, including the paid currency).
For me, a live service needs to do something that I haven't done 1000s of times before and then do it the best that it can be done. Most live services are following one of the existing models so I am already at a point of disinterest.
What doesn't really help larger publishers is they are expecting numbers and quarterly earnings similar to very well established live service games while putting 0 effort into community building. Like they look at fortnite numbers and expect something like that without taking into consideration how to got to there.
I play World of Tanks (3 battles per day, approx 20 mins), FO76 (daily challenges, approx 20 mins, and my wife also plays), and Destiny (whatever season mission there is, plus some season grind, approx an hour per day). I also used to play Anthem, as did my wife. Then if a game like BG3 comes out I may play 4 to 5 hours, and then I have classics like CivIV etc and a daughter that wants me to play Hot Wheels 2. Already it's easy to see that the "Live Service" games are way down the pecking order, the absolute bare minimum is done to just tick over the account until some kind of significant release. A new game, particularly a live service, that extends beyond a finite time (I recently completed Return to Grace and Fire Watch for instance) just isn't going to work for me - especially if it means abandoning friends etc (or my wife).
What not to list? -diminishing returns... People can only do 1-2 LAGs period -the increasing stance of fomo. -expect to play every day -more and more money expected -repeditive gameplay
The problem with live service is eventually it dies because players will move onto different things. And there's only so much content you can make before it becomes repetitive
Well I hope if games like Harry Potter are made live service there's still an option to play it offline without a subscription. I paid for a product in it's current form and expect it to be playable in that form
Helldivers 2 is fun, viral, high quality, and updated enough to actually convert players to its live service. And that's because the Dev's actually care about the players and the game, not just microtransactions.
Helldivers works because it’s something a lot of people haven’t experienced before along with everything kinda being told it such a great way from how leaks get handled and everything
Most live service games revolve around getting loot. Which is extremely boring to me personally. Grind out quests until you get the god tier item then wait for the next season for the next god tier item. Yawn. Grinding is boring as fuck to me and not interesting in the least bit. Give me a good story with good characters any day and you’ll have my money everytime. Give me a loot grind and I’ll pass all day.
I mean, if helldivers did what a lot of games and service games do, which is to say that at the very least they made it so that the cosmetics were purchasable only by paying money, helldivers to would not be as popular. Explicitly the reason why people ignore the fact that it is a games as service, is because functionally it doesn't have to be. In fact, it is only marginally easier if you just spend money.
I gotta say a couple of the failures also come from Bethesda and studios taking lore oriented single player games and forcing them to live service like that’s what those fan bases always wanted was being forced to interact with players😂
Trend chasing rarely works once the landscape has set. See animation, Console Wars, fantasy movies, MMORPG, super hero movies, and now live service. But while companies know it, investors don't, or don't care. They are willing to back the 1 in a million shot if the reward MIGHT be big enough. In fact I'm starting to think that's why games take so long now. Its churn for churn's sake. Why pump out a destiny clone in 2-3 years and maybe get nothing, when you can guarantee 5-6 years of Development money.
Helldivers 2 also has broken new ground. Several of my buddies and I play HD2 everyday and we had never engaged with a live service game before. This is lightning in a bottle and it's a shame because companies do not and shall not understand that.
This is exactly why I don't understand why every major gaming company is hell-bent on making everything into live service, plenty of games out there that just don't need to be live service and would probably work better in a self contained enviroment, yet they keep forcing live service elements into it often to the detrement of the game.
I think a lot of people just wanna unwind when they game and don't care to play with a bunch of strangers. Also, relying on good internet service is a big ask. In some areas you're just NOT going to get the bandwidth to play.
the supply for live service is huge right now. the demand is at an all time low. most players who arent already playing exclusively 1 game only dont want live service. they want single player games thay respect their time, but have a long enough playtime and replay value. they dont want grindy bullshit. they want good gameplay and good stories.
I just want studios to start popping up that want to SOLELY focus on single player games that are fun. I know there isn’t CRAZY money in that these days, but I don’t care about playing games online… I just want a good campaign that I can play by myself when I’m not working! I’m 37 now, so I’m no spring chicken. I understand that I’m not their target audience.
Video game companies don't seem to understand that they need to make a good actual fun game if they want to make a live service game. You can't just have a game be live service and then just expect it to work.
been playing season of discovery which is blizzards new wow classic mmo it’s short and pretty fun it’s seasonal content without battle passes just actual seasonal content that will be ending in a few months and they’ll let everyone transfer their characters to other versions of wow when it ends and shut the servers down for the seasonal content or make it it’s own permanent thing who knows but blizzard has been making strides in the right direction in my opinion
to make it simpler. genre maters. halo infinite and overwatch 2 abandoned coop mode to focus on pvp games and compete with other pvp games so helldivers 2 kinda adopted them in including l4d enjoyers.
I would really consider the coop in halo infinite integral to the live service. The story was always going to sell as a full priced game and had no bering on the multi-player. Halo not having The Forge killed it faster the coop would ever.. Overwatch 2 on the other hand had PvE as the whole selling point of making it.
...And to finish out what bro was saying right at the end their, if these studios are thinking about what others have done already, they never will be exceptional. Helldivers is a breath of fresh air in an oversaturated genre.
I cant believe they havent figured this out yet. The only consistent player bases that will shell out money year after year after year without deviating are boys who play EA sports and COD. Besides them, you have about 1.5- 2 million gamers globally who habitually participate in assorted online games. (Who actually pay for them, not relying on mommy/daddy.) Theres probably at least 50 million broke children/teenagers to try and parasite off of and thats the main target, hence the lack of quality for 95% of online services since teenagers/children have little to no reference level.
The new live service devs/publishers need to learn their lesson from the MMORPG genre. For years and years people tried to make the "WoW killer" by making basically WoW with some slight changes in game play and aesthetics, but wasn't fundamentally different. So, why go play the new thing when I've already put so much time in WoW, and also, all my friends are also still playing WoW.
Theyre missing the build a fun game part
Not all live service games are bad. Look at helldivers 2
@@TheHK_47 everyone is sucking off helldivers constantly.
That is one exception to the general trash heap of live service games. It actually proves that live service is trash
@@TheHK_47that game is built like a fun game, the only point he brought and the one most games lately seem to miss
@@TheHK_47 that's because it's a fun game first and foremost
most other live service are not
Even in hell divers 2 case, if the player base just died, it already did its job since theres a $40 entry fee
To piggyback on what Luke said, it's not just pulling people from a different game. They need to get them to keep coming back. In order to do that, they need to constantly create new content for the game. They need to have teams dedicated to addressing bugs and optimizing gameplay.
The problem is that these studios release the games and abandon them. Why would gamers play a live service game that gets empty and lackluster updates every 3 months over a game that gets an update with new content and gameplay fixes every two weeks?
An example of a (non-live service game? I think maybe?) Is Lethal Company it gets consistent updates and there's a dedicated community for it now.
They have to improve on the content. Without devaluing what was already purchased, while competing with new releases.
Its basically impossible.
@@koboldsage9112 Fortnight did it.
This is exactly why I don't play Helldivers. It will DIE in the next three months and people will be whining on about something else instead.
@@MrRezRisingFortnite is the perfect example. They started out doing weird base defence game mode, pivoted and did a battle Royale shooter BETTER than games that had been out for years. To this day, it is still receiving novel content that keeps the game fresh.
Helldivers 2 has been one of the only games to do live service right. It’s so refreshing to see
Warframe and path of exile are both very good live service games
@@tommasopisapia7464 I'd say Path of Wxile more than Warframe. The latter is very tedious and grindy and other inconveniences added to the game purely to make people buy plat.
Team Fortress 2, Deep Rock Galactic
I agree warframe can be grindy and tedious but it's the only game I've been able to earn premium currency consistently. The player driven market is thriving and people are constantly looking for even the most basic mods/weapons.
Thats putting aside the fact if you want to put in the time, you can make nearly any loadout viable
This coming from somone who has played the game for hundreds of hours and has only spent money to support the game, not because I felt like I needed to.
.@@whyisthisathingnow...
@@whyisthisathingnow...warframe is grindy, but the core gameplay is so insanely fun that the grind is legitimately fun
There's an oversaturation of live service games and most of them don't offer anything new to keep players engaged and coming back
Which is the same with every trend in gaming, we had the same with MMOs, same with MOBAs, same with battle Royale mode, live service isn’t even a new concept it’s essentially ending up back at the beginning with MMOs but with new wrapping paper
I agree, all seem to follow the exact same recipe that people saw it worked for someone sometime. No desire to build something innovative, to build a community and whatnot. Like the goal is to replace, to basically steal players from others rather than be something on their own.
@@somnorila9913 again that’s every trend in gaming, either you set the trend, improve the trend or copy the trend. The problem with setting the trend and being original is you don’t know it’s going to work until it does, plenty of brilliantly innovative games fall by the wayside cause they don’t capture the public’s attention. It’s not exactly surprising that people would rather invest time and money into the equivalent of marvel movies when they actually make money rather then take risks that fail hard.
I also don’t think people give the publishers enough credit when they do put out genuinely original ideas, I still remember the crazy feeling of discovering assassins creed for the first time, a franchise so unique no one has even come close to making a copy of it.
When every game is asking for all your time, especially during a time where people are having less and less, it's hard to find players. Helldivers 2 knows this, and that's why the game is so unpunishing to people that don't play for a while. You still get to claim your order rewards, you still can unlock all the warbonds, you can grind as much as you want when you want.
Maybe, if that's so then it's a good approach. I always seen and hated the approach of always focusing on new players while not just ignoring but rather alienating old players.
I understand why, it's about money. But for me a good game is about the spirit of it, for fun, for the feeling and emotion, the community, even the technology and gameplay approach, trying new things, fine tuning old things and whatnot.
Money should not even be a goal.
The only monetary aim should be enough to maintain it, evolve and continue existing.
Not profits, but just enough income to cover the expenses. You know, wages mostly while not taking any credits. Companies to focus on resilience over time instead of big payouts fast. To value employees rather than use them as fodder.
Honestly, I'm 90% sure they are so focused on live service because it 'prevents piracy' regardless of whether or not people actually want to play live service games.
That's exactly why a lot of games are going online. It sucks because they really don't need to like exclusively multi-player games I can understand. It's games like hitman that made me question why it was online only.
@@Doggies-Styl yeah a decade or so they tried it on a LOT of single player games but everyone had an outcry that they needed internet to play these games. i think most turned their back on them but the industry just learned to not make those kinds of games...
which is annoying but well, indie devs have free reign to make these types of game now.
You know what prevents piracy? Access, easy access and respect. Oh, and proper price for the value.
Make a good game and sell it in a way that is easy for the consumer to access it anytime anywhere, at a decent price.
You don't have to spend anything for any anti piracy approach. People will pirate it anyway. And that is not bad as it's pretty much advertising and a factor that generates community too.
With time you'll get more than enough paying customers. You don't have to think of people playing pirated copies as potential money in your pocket that you lost but as potential future customers that you will gain.
They build a store front then half-assedly slap the veneer of a game over it and expect people to gush all their money on it. Rinse and repeat. Crazy.
Halo Infinite in a nutshell. Problem is they couldn’t even get their store right until a few months ago and it still has issues
They’re just high budget mobile games & we buy expensive gaming systems specifically to avoid shitty mobile games lol
Helldivers got 40k, starship troopers, and halo fans in one game
Also the gameplay itself attracts deep rock galactic fans
For sure I love that its ODST Starship Troopers, I also get Aliens and Terminator vibes which is also a nice draw for the game
I disagree that it got Halo fans because most of us are probably on Xbox, which can't play.
@@billyshaw1996you’d be surprised how many old head halo fans play on pc
It's actually not hard to pull people initially into a game. People like having multiple GOOD games to play. The problem is, there are certain players who will give games multiple chances but most won't. Most try it, it sucks, and they don't come back bc they cherish the few good games they have. We're all mostly adapting to how studios are screwing us and just not giving some studios 2nd or 3rd chances.
Helldivers 2 is from a well-respected developer, from 1 and Magicka 1 & 2, and no history of live service trash. Its not a PVP microtransaction debacle, so it can't be called anything similar to the live service messes of those described CEOS. A better lesson for those CEOs might be to not make live service games xD
You just have to make a good game. Something a lot of these studios don’t seem to be capable of. Helldivers is new and something we haven’t really seen for live service that’s why it works so well. Companies just want to copy everyone instead of coming up with a real idea
This is why the push needs to stop. I realize that the reward is hard to ignore but the risk is bad for everyone.
Nah, they should keep doing it. It'll help the gaming community weed out many of the bad corporations. Then most of whoever is left will still be standing because they actually have something to offer. Most of these AAA studios don't have any talent anymore. All the talent left to do their own thing so the companies that are merely a shell of their former selves, sadly, need to close down
failure is important and necessary
There is nothing wrong with your thinking, but there are a lot, and I mean a lot of great studios that are being forced to work on Live Service that I’m not willing to lose. Naughty Dog and Rocksteady right off the top of my head.
This, but you also have to remember that with a limited amount of players, there's a limited number of time each, and not everyone can play multiple games. My three current live service games, well four including the long abandoned TF2. Is Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail, and Deep Rock Galactic. Because those games for the most part respect players times and money, mine at least, I am able to play games inbetween them. They're what I'd call time neutral games. Where the battle passes aren't hard to max. And the time needed to get all rewards is quick (Deep rock especially)
So I don't see myself moving to another live service game until these games I currently play are finished or abandoned. With TF2 being one I just drop in and out of.
I remember the same thing happening with MMOs about 12 years ago. So many companies wanted what WoW had but couldn’t realise there were only so many losers willing to pay $10 a month and keep playing a game forever.
live service at the end of the day is just multiplayer game like in the past. They want a game they can update for long time simple as that
I onlynplay single player games.. I wont buy a game with microtransactions, or drm.. And I have no problem waiting 2 years for a sale
I like to OWN my games, and play them years later! Im strange that way, with atuff I pay for
So you don’t buy steam and digital console games?
I would recommend helldivers 2 it is live service but it's great and you can play it single player if you want
@@Frederick_VIIIm good.. Thanks for the recommendation, but Ill pass
@@giannis_tarI spoke plainly.. whether youre capable of comprehending, thats on you
I just don't understand how these guys are incapable of understanding _basic fucking logic._
Rich people can be dumb too,but unlike poor people they don't get shafted by bad decisions.
@@naamadossantossilva4736rich people live completely different lives, also most decision makers aren’t gamers, they’re salesman.
To be successful you have to bring something new, if you just make your own fortnite why the hell would people play that over fortnite. But if you create an amazing new game (like helldivers 2) then people will leave their old game for your new one
The thing about is that you have to realize a lot of these games are only becoming fad games they’ll be popular on the internet for a month or two then their life of relevancy ends thus hurting the dev team
@ScornedState helldivers 2 is still the best selling game on steam right now (including mtx), even if helldivers 2 dies in a year or two, helldivers three will be made and the cycle can continue
helldivers 1 is the exact same game, the only difference is the camera. I wouldnt call helldivers 2 new necessarily, just got the right hype behind it.
@@bigbobenerg6667 well have some mechanics , features , the Absolute chaos and the funny staff we haven't seen in other recent released game .
The funny thing is, this EXACT scenario already happened with WOW and the rush for all these studios to make their own MMO. But surprise surprise, WOW fans just played WOW. We're just getting that whole situation being repeated now with live service. Why do execs never learn?
Helldivers being not $60 really helped imo. That $20 'discount' is really massive in a sea of dogshit $70 games which are gutted to shit unless you pay $90 for the full edition.
It doesn't help that alot of these games are just straight up HALF STEPPING their games.
It's only been a couple months but helldivers 2 is killin it
How soon before all the big names in IP's for games start making their own versions of Helldivers 2 for their brands?
It reminds me of the late 2000’s into the 2010’s when everyone was making an MMO. They all saw the success of WoW and RuneScape and thought they would do the same, but people didn’t really want to leave those games they had dumped a thousand hours into to try a new MMO that might suck or die within a year.
In a years time there will be like 5 subpar Helldivers clones with half the content and twice the MTX.
Corporations will consistently learn the wrong lessons from available data, sure as clockwork
General flow of the industry is some small team will do something actually creative and the big companies, afraid of risk. Will spend the next decade cloning it relentlessly until the next actually creative product pops up
So, I gave up most multi-player games. Helldivers 2 is reminiscent of L4D2 of just fun gameplay, and it reinforces your behavior so you want to be a good player and help others as well
It’s just like with the streaming services to many of them thought they could take Netflix’s lunch, but people can only afford so many subscriptions
Hell Divers merges multiple corners of the gamersphere. All the Halo ODST fans who already called themselves Hell Divers with the motto “Feet First Into Hell”, 40k Brothers just excited to purge Xenos for the Imperium of Man, movie buffs playing out Starship Troopers. Get everyone in here to do their part
You have to be so much fun that you beat the "Sunk Cost Fallacy" basically.
Totally on point, im not gona quit Apex Legends after thousands of hours and a few hundred € spent, for another potential shooter.
Their missing the fact that people arent rich and need a good game that earn their dedication and money
A soul. Most games don't.. and most devs have had it burned out of them
Every year there is an opportunity for the gaming market to be upended out of nowhere by a surprise fun experience. That experience is never going to be the game that you think can take over. It just never will be predictable.
Not only is it a fixed number but it’s a declining number too
Before Helldivers I wasn't really playing anything but I haven't stopped playing since
They’re missing that we don’t like live service games
They're chasing the mythical "general audience".
Lets not forget that people despise live service games as a whole. Its easy to say "Look at HellDivers 2, its so successful and its live service!" But I can guarantee you its not the live service part of that game that people like. In fact not even that long ago it annoyed people to no end because they couldn't connect to play the game.
This. It’s going to be VERY hard for a game to pull me away from Apex legends. Been playing since launch. Before that, I played Siege from its launch. And before that, CS.
I have 100 percent stopped buying and paying attention to any AAA or live service games. They just release broken, not fun, micro transaction riddled games. I only support AA and indie devs until shit changes. I lnow im not the only one. There are a lot of people who have left that market as well, and the studios wont gain their trust back.
Agree 100%. The live service business model was only set up to succeed a limited number of times, and unfortunately, the first few developers that adapted the model are the ones that are successful. Of course there are exceptions, but just like its stated here, it's few and far between. Most gamers don't want it, and most developers don't want to do it. Hopefully we can leave it behind in the next decade or two.
To expand, its that glut in the market. There is definitely space for live service games but *not that much space*. You cant expect runaway successes when Fortnite, Apex, Helldivers, Overwatch, R6 Siege, whatever 20$ multiplayer indie game is out at the time are all dominating space and attention. This isnt even a new problem because its what happened to the MMO space in the early 2000s. You could not beat wow because WoW dominated player counts and kept them yet the industry insisted on trying despite the fact that most mmos never got past a niche status
all the long term successful games , had one thing in common, a Great Solo story. everything after is just a bonus. the studios have forgotten what sells games , it is certainly not overpriced skins.
Yeah,you can't just be good,you gotta be the king.
I feel like deeprock galactic and helldivers players are cut from the same cloth.
This should be played on repeat at the entrance of every gaming company!
Vast majority of live service games came out unfinished and severely lacking content for what it supposed to be, which is like starting a race with legs tied up.
Exactly what helldivers did to me from warframe...1300 hrs on warframe...if helldivers have expansions like warframe id definitely be 1300 hrs in that game too
A big reason why a lot of us in the Battlefield scene are expressing that Premium needs to come back for the franchise. The "live service" of 2042 for example, is a dumpster fire of content drought, drip fed almost nothing with core mechanics that still don't work years after release.
They sure are missing a lot, but they're not missing the shop features
They aren't succeeding with live service games because they are trying to monetise the soul out of it. Helldivers 2 is live service and they are succeeding because fun comes first and they made an incredibly fun game, where any microtransaction is a choice (you can earn it all for free, including the paid currency).
For me, a live service needs to do something that I haven't done 1000s of times before and then do it the best that it can be done. Most live services are following one of the existing models so I am already at a point of disinterest.
Helldiver's convinced me that I want to "spread managed democracy" that line in the real world sounds like a love letter to Putin.
What doesn't really help larger publishers is they are expecting numbers and quarterly earnings similar to very well established live service games while putting 0 effort into community building. Like they look at fortnite numbers and expect something like that without taking into consideration how to got to there.
Never heard it put like that before but it definitely makes sense
Helldivers the only live service I’m playing rn. Gonna be that way for a long time I feel like
I play World of Tanks (3 battles per day, approx 20 mins), FO76 (daily challenges, approx 20 mins, and my wife also plays), and Destiny (whatever season mission there is, plus some season grind, approx an hour per day). I also used to play Anthem, as did my wife. Then if a game like BG3 comes out I may play 4 to 5 hours, and then I have classics like CivIV etc and a daughter that wants me to play Hot Wheels 2. Already it's easy to see that the "Live Service" games are way down the pecking order, the absolute bare minimum is done to just tick over the account until some kind of significant release. A new game, particularly a live service, that extends beyond a finite time (I recently completed Return to Grace and Fire Watch for instance) just isn't going to work for me - especially if it means abandoning friends etc (or my wife).
They focus so much on the numbers and process and barely anything on the fun and entertainment that people ACTUALLY want
a wise man understands that definitions matter.
What not to list?
-diminishing returns... People can only do 1-2 LAGs period
-the increasing stance of fomo.
-expect to play every day
-more and more money expected
-repeditive gameplay
The problem with live service is eventually it dies because players will move onto different things. And there's only so much content you can make before it becomes repetitive
Well I hope if games like Harry Potter are made live service there's still an option to play it offline without a subscription. I paid for a product in it's current form and expect it to be playable in that form
Helldivers 2 is fun, viral, high quality, and updated enough to actually convert players to its live service. And that's because the Dev's actually care about the players and the game, not just microtransactions.
This is also the reason why BG3 got game of the year.
Helldivers works because it’s something a lot of people haven’t experienced before along with everything kinda being told it such a great way from how leaks get handled and everything
Yeah, I'm deep into Genshin and even their other titles can't pull me in (until they finish the other games or Genshin is done first)
you know your stuff. salute
and heldiver looks like starship troopers the movie and its nostalgic for some players
They're all chasing the tsunami that tore through the industry in '17-'18, called Fortnight.
If money is part of the vision before any further ideas then how far can it truly get
The market can only sustain a handful of live service games. All these companies want a piece of a very finite pie
Helldiver's 2 and overhype tower defence very exceptional
Most live service games revolve around getting loot. Which is extremely boring to me personally. Grind out quests until you get the god tier item then wait for the next season for the next god tier item. Yawn. Grinding is boring as fuck to me and not interesting in the least bit. Give me a good story with good characters any day and you’ll have my money everytime. Give me a loot grind and I’ll pass all day.
I mean, if helldivers did what a lot of games and service games do, which is to say that at the very least they made it so that the cosmetics were purchasable only by paying money, helldivers to would not be as popular. Explicitly the reason why people ignore the fact that it is a games as service, is because functionally it doesn't have to be. In fact, it is only marginally easier if you just spend money.
I haven't had coop fun like helldivers 2 since left4dead it's great
I gotta say a couple of the failures also come from Bethesda and studios taking lore oriented single player games and forcing them to live service like that’s what those fan bases always wanted was being forced to interact with players😂
My guilty live service is DayZ the suspense and fear is constant 😂
Trend chasing rarely works once the landscape has set.
See animation, Console Wars, fantasy movies, MMORPG, super hero movies, and now live service.
But while companies know it, investors don't, or don't care. They are willing to back the 1 in a million shot if the reward MIGHT be big enough.
In fact I'm starting to think that's why games take so long now. Its churn for churn's sake. Why pump out a destiny clone in 2-3 years and maybe get nothing, when you can guarantee 5-6 years of Development money.
Helldivers 2 also has broken new ground. Several of my buddies and I play HD2 everyday and we had never engaged with a live service game before.
This is lightning in a bottle and it's a shame because companies do not and shall not understand that.
they just forget about the fun and addicting part and just think we r walking wallets
They also need to justify having a price at all bc the most popular live service game is literally free so you need to stand out in one way or another
This is exactly why I don't understand why every major gaming company is hell-bent on making everything into live service, plenty of games out there that just don't need to be live service and would probably work better in a self contained enviroment, yet they keep forcing live service elements into it often to the detrement of the game.
so build a fun game before you build the cash shop.
I think a lot of people just wanna unwind when they game and don't care to play with a bunch of strangers. Also, relying on good internet service is a big ask. In some areas you're just NOT going to get the bandwidth to play.
the supply for live service is huge right now. the demand is at an all time low. most players who arent already playing exclusively 1 game only dont want live service. they want single player games thay respect their time, but have a long enough playtime and replay value. they dont want grindy bullshit. they want good gameplay and good stories.
I just want studios to start popping up that want to SOLELY focus on single player games that are fun. I know there isn’t CRAZY money in that these days, but I don’t care about playing games online… I just want a good campaign that I can play by myself when I’m not working!
I’m 37 now, so I’m no spring chicken. I understand that I’m not their target audience.
they also think that making a popular IP into a live service will guarantee them a success lol
Video game companies don't seem to understand that they need to make a good actual fun game if they want to make a live service game. You can't just have a game be live service and then just expect it to work.
been playing season of discovery which is blizzards new wow classic mmo it’s short and pretty fun it’s seasonal content without battle passes just actual seasonal content that will be ending in a few months and they’ll let everyone transfer their characters to other versions of wow when it ends and shut the servers down for the seasonal content or make it it’s own permanent thing who knows but blizzard has been making strides in the right direction in my opinion
There is also those of us who HATE live service games, and those who do not play live service because we know it is OBJECTIVELY BAD for gaming.
to make it simpler. genre maters.
halo infinite and overwatch 2 abandoned coop mode to focus on pvp games and compete with other pvp games so helldivers 2 kinda adopted them in including l4d enjoyers.
I would really consider the coop in halo infinite integral to the live service. The story was always going to sell as a full priced game and had no bering on the multi-player. Halo not having The Forge killed it faster the coop would ever.. Overwatch 2 on the other hand had PvE as the whole selling point of making it.
And even then you can still say something about hell divers following the extraction shooter trend. Not in mechanics per se. But def genre
...And to finish out what bro was saying right at the end their, if these studios are thinking about what others have done already, they never will be exceptional. Helldivers is a breath of fresh air in an oversaturated genre.
They're missing what Helldivers has. The willingness to risk it all on a radical idea.
Wasn’t expecting an Atrioc cameo Lol
Warframe has been great f2p live service game for 10+ years and still going strong
I cant believe they havent figured this out yet. The only consistent player bases that will shell out money year after year after year without deviating are boys who play EA sports and COD. Besides them, you have about 1.5- 2 million gamers globally who habitually participate in assorted online games. (Who actually pay for them, not relying on mommy/daddy.) Theres probably at least 50 million broke children/teenagers to try and parasite off of and thats the main target, hence the lack of quality for 95% of online services since teenagers/children have little to no reference level.
The new live service devs/publishers need to learn their lesson from the MMORPG genre. For years and years people tried to make the "WoW killer" by making basically WoW with some slight changes in game play and aesthetics, but wasn't fundamentally different. So, why go play the new thing when I've already put so much time in WoW, and also, all my friends are also still playing WoW.
Another option is to make a niche game, kindna like what Helldivers 2 did. Co-op shooter is surprisingly rarely executed well