Glad I could help you guys. This is the reason I go into such depth with my reviews. Trying to give as much information as possible, so someone can make a more informed decision when spending their hard earned money.
Another perfect review, I love when I get a notification from The Sim Racing Garage. :) This time, it just a bit out of my price range, but you never now, maybe one day ;) Great job Barry.
Thorough review as always. But have to ask; am I the only one who would like to see a lap of RallyCross done with this setup? :D Bit over do that jump and bottom out the suspension on the landing. Multi angle video request on that.
Any motion system relies on three main components working well and harmoniously together. The Motion Hardware (actuators, encoder, drives), the Controller (correct algorithm, proper pitch, roll, heave and effect setups) and the software logarithm (GIGO - garbage in and garbage out or ensuring that the data coming out of the game is high resolution enough and capable). D-BOX does this quite well and continually updates their codecs to best represent the motion in game. Still the representation is a human based decision still rather than a pure representation. Sometimes this is for obvious reasons, such as surpassing 1G. :-) Here is a video from some time ago, running Dirt Rally on 6" motion system and a very light HR chassis. Whole setup weighs about 55 lbs. th-cam.com/video/gnKZUtwAzxs/w-d-xo.html
brilliant review (as always) Barry - thank you for taking the timing to do such a comprehensive review. I am really interested in a D Box system and this will really inform my future purchases very well....thank you!
this is someone who if he was reviewing a goat he would pull its guts out then put it back in to show you what's inside, although it is weird why he got only 20K subs!
Barry Rowland taking all sorts of risk taking off the cover of a dbox control unit! Great video as always, Barry. Glad you're enjoying your Dbox. There is a Facebook group of Dbox owners. Would definitely love to see you there!
Hi Barry , Great video as always, Great to see what other sim racers think of the system , I have the D- Box Two actuator system on the rear of my sim rig and for those asking is it as good i can truly say it is fantastic you feel every bump and the traction loss feeling is amazing , If you are into F1 try it at Monaco there is a bump between Casino corner and Marabeau Haute where you feel the weight loss in the back end , The first time i hit it at speed i nearly had an orgasm lol , The system is expensive but like Barry says if you can afford it it is a dream setup to own , Keep up the good work Barry, Cheers flymo ferrari from across the pond in Northern ireland .
Another great review. Thank you! There is no question that the D-box is VERY expensive. However, when you compare the expense to that incurred with other hobbies such as boating or, at times, golf, the cost is not so steep.
Why does this channel not have over a 100K subscribers? I feel if you Incorporated more live stream racing you would see a bump in views and subs. Keep up the great work and man what a dream setup.
Nice work Barry! I'm new to the channel and simply love your approach on the way you describe things in detail. I'm one of the seat mover drivers, but also utilize Vr and wind simulation as well. The immersion is FANTASTIC!. Keep up the great work and you just gained a subscriber. Cheers!
I've been touting the advantages of D-Box for ten years. Finally someone notices. LOL Barry never seemed to have that much fun. With Dbox you don't need a traction loss unit. Fact.
That's one helluva nice hardcore review! If there ever was a world war, you could slap on some tyres on that rig, mount a couple of cannons and then go rule the battlefield! =) Thanks for an awesome video Barry!
Another great review Barry. I personally couldn't justify that sort of cost both from a financial perspective but also in terms of my lower desire for motion in my sim-racing. I still found the video absolutely fascinating regardless, and it suddenly makes sense why you chose the JCL rig in your push for a strong but super lightweight rig.
I also spy what looks like an Audi R8 LMS GT3 steering wheel in the background. Is it from Turn Engineering and what do you think of it? I'd love to see it in more detail but there's probably not much to say in depth about a steering wheel that hasn't already been said I suppose.
Ah my bad. I noticed that the wheel deck had changed but thought it was the same rig. I've been scoping out Sim-labs lately so it should have been obvious! Thanks for clarifying though, and I guess it underlines the strength and power of the actuators.
As always Barry, an excellent review! The elephant in the room is of course the cost of the system. In the interests of those of us who would aim for the stars and be happy to touch the moon (maybe?), would there be any possibility that you could stretch to a review of a 2 actuator setup (with a front pivot) on your cockpit. Explaining the differences in feel between the 2 and 4 actuator setups, and whether you think that the 2 actuator setup would be a worthwhile entry point to this motion system (at a much reduced cost) for some of us would be appreciated.
Well, if Dbox doesn't want to send him one b/c the likely result is that you will be plenty happy with a 2 actuator setup at 1/3 the price, perhaps someone within traveling distance has one they can offer up for him to review. Anyone?? Beuller?
Glad to hear you are enjoying your D-Box system. A little precision tough. Like you stated, the controller module can support 3 actuators. Thus, if you purchase a 3250i or 3400i you only need one controller module. Of course, that could also serve for expansion... But only D-Box knows 😉
I'd love a review of the SFX100 diy system at the fraction of the cost for normal folk. Your review system is the most thorough out there and I think it would be great for the Sim racing community. They say the SFX100 is to the DBOX as the Mige is to a Bodnar DD wheel.
Great review as always, pretty sure this is simrig goals right there😍😍😍 Need a lottery win first though. I'm really curious to see how this performs in RallyX and RBR as I feel that'd be awesome to experience
I have a race center with several DBox sims, here are some points I have: - Why are you turning vibration off? It makes a huge difference and makes the experience much better. Even if you have bass shakers, I think you should turn them off and have the vibration from dbox. They are much stronger for sure. - You definitely didn't need the 4400i model, the 4250i is more than enough for your setup - Shockingly, I actually had a 4250i system, and 2250i system, and myself and everyone who tried both, all said the 2250i felt much better. You really need to try it. The 2250i system feels much more composed, predictable and realistic. Might be hard to believe, but it truly is much better. - With that said, a 2250i system is around 5000$. So, you can have the awesome Dbox motion system for a much more reasonable price than the 17k you have.
With the 4250i, the cockpit feels like itsfloating in the air, and theres too much going on. Regarding heave, the travel is only 1.5inches, so you cant really distinguish between the heave compared to roll and pitch. With the 2250i, there are only 2 actuators, the cockpit feels much more solid, predictable, and more precise in the movement, you can tell exactly whats going on so it relates much better to the visual. Overall, the amount of motion you get is no less than the 4250i at all, you get plenty of motion and vibration from 2 actuators, just much more precise, which as a result, is more enjoyable and feels more realistic. English is not my first language so hopefully I was able to describe it well enough.
This I find very interesting. I have a Vesaro for 2250i 1.5 inch set up, but was/am considering a 4250i 3inch system (agree that you don't need 4400i, 250 pounds (113kg per corner is more than enough).
Thank you for the review. Watching and listening to your videos reminds me of MotorWeek. I loved that show. And your reviews feel like they would fit perfectly into that format like an extended segment. Could you do another video that shows how the D-BOX system works with rally sims like RBR, dirt and wrc 7 or the rallycross gameplay in i-racing and project CARS 2?
Great Review again Barry! After watching this and that physics mechanics exercise paper filled with formulas, I have a crazy idea. What if someone manages to combine this Dbox system with the seat frame slider of JCL and top it with an RTL mechanism?
Barry! I just noticed, do set the motion vibration balance to the middle, you're missing out on what D-box is best at, delivering a range of motion from fine tactile vibrations all the way to full motion! there is seriously no need for simvibe with a d-box setup. Some argue tactile transducers give higher frequencies of vibrations but aren't those most of the vibrations you tend to avoid anyway? you want the low rumble of the engine, the tactile vibrations of the road.
Even though I am not really missing the Stage 4's TL, I can still catch slides rather easily, TL is on my list. But have to recover from my latest expenditures first. Might be a while. I'm already thinking of how to get the build done.
Wow I guess you said so in the video I just missed it. I always thought my 3DOF system was the most realistic of them all (frex,simxperience and the kind) But after watching this video I am having second thoughts and I might try it myself. Thanks for all the info because we love serious unbiased reviews
Barry, What if you mount your belts to the floor instead of the rig? The reason we "feel" the g forces in the real car is because our bodies have linear momentum against the changes in velocity of the car transmitted through the straps and seat. With straps mounted off the rig these forces would be transmitted directly with even less movement of the d-box required.
After trying the D-Box motion, the Stage 4 and other concepts i can safely say, my GS-5 is better than that, if you just running one system. I get similar heave effects plus a lot more g-forces in all directions compare to the D-Box-system. Together with my big buttkicker in SimVibe seat (especially for engine vibrations and road noise) and some smaller ones for the pedals, my setup is IMO better than any motion-rig i tested. And this are 8 so far plus mine, ranging from 1500 to 40k Euros. The combination of Stage 3, GS-5 and SimVibe is IMO the ultimate motion-rig you can buy for about 9k.
@@wredmatic There was enough space to mount my Buttkicker Concert under the seat between the servos. It's just one and far more powerful than the four 100 Watt shakers I was using before just for the rear. Since the seat gives me the direction of feedback I don't need additional shakers even I own two smaller ones I could mount, but I don't feel them anyway. You can also mount four small Dayton shakers in each of the plates of the GS-5, there are cut outs for those shakers, but I haven't done it as well. This big Buttkicker want some travel to work with (and to dampen the rig against neighbours) and my 80/20 rig has a suspension made with Brooks-springs for bicycle saddles. I use 10 of those springs (50 bucks) and they have a nice stiffness. The effects are more natural from both the Buttkicker and the GS-5. Also I would suggest to reverse the back and and butt plates effects and use a harness. A seat mover usually pushes the body towards the wheel while braking and the GS-5 does the opposite on default. Since I reversed the function it feels a lot better and like nothing is missing. Just the announced belt tensioner from SimXperience seem like a great addition. Than it would make sense to switch to default again and get the best braking effect in Sim Racing: You feel the belt stretching your shoulder while your back loosing contact to the seat like in a real car:)
Wow thats awsome but at 4000 per actuator sounds crazy expensive. Although the thought of 250 per month for this system doesnt sound that bad if your home is paid off. But still its so hard for me to believe that those 4 electric small motors and electric box cost more that a fully functional brand new real car .
Barry, thanks for all the great content! No one does sim hardware reviews quite like you. Thank you for that. Have you ever seen the ProSimu PRS 200 actuators? Do you think it would be possible to accomplish the same thing you accomplished here with those actuators? Would love to just bite the bullet and go d-box, but the ProSimu option is more in my budget. Thanks again and looking forward to more great content.
I haven't tried the ProSimu. You would think it would be similar to the D-BOX. But you never really know until you actually use it. It does seem louder than the D-BOX. My actuators are very quite in comparison. If that even matters. Maybe someday I'll get a chance to give that system a go.
Nice review Barry! I wish you could if you compare this very-very expensive D-Box System (about 17000$ USD) with the 4 Mega-Monster Actuator of the company PT-Actuator (about 5200$ USD). I'm sure the result is the same, but for a lot less money.
Hahahahahahahha - $17,000. I feel like emailing D-box to ask them to justify that pricing model. I think their response will make me laugh even more than this ridiculous price.
@Harrie McBollox Then why aren't you guys marketing your own unit for 1/2 the cost and making money ? Back to your parents basement to think you know what you are taking about.
@Harrie McBollox lol. You're not buying materials. You are buying a product. If you can't afford quality, buy a knock off/cheaper model and pretend it is as good. Some people pretend their honda is just as good as a BMW, no difference just a lot more crying over the price. But uh ya, you go ahead and try to put together a working 4 actuator kit for $2k. Or any proper, motion system for that. lol.
Late Apex it must be hard to make, And you can’t mass produce them to make money because not that many people are buying them. So getting them made without mass producing would be expensive enough to justify $17,000
They are called "Orb" www.orbaudio.com/ bit pricey but sound quite good. Found a good price on a six speaker set with a subwoofer. They are using a 3" full range aluminum driver, with no crossover circuit, in each Orb. I bought them because they are more compact than most speakers you can find. But still able to handle up to 125 watts. As an added bonus I thought they would simulate mirrors better than any other speaker out there I could find.
Although mine is only 3250i but it was really awesome. Just one system will do motion and vibration not like other system where you would need butt kicker for optimize immersion.
Newbie Sim Racer how do you like the 3 point set up? Have u used the 4250 to compare any differences? I’ve read positive things about the 3, but very little comparison. Thanks.
Eliminator I love my 3250i alot and mine would be the Y setup, meaning 2 fronts and 1 rear actuator setup. The only difference is the lateral sensation for the rear would be slightly less aggressive. Barry said he felt the traction loss but when I was driving my friend's 4400I I could not feel it, maybe it’s just me. My friend later combined his 4400I setup with SIM Experience traction loss and it was awesome. There is a guy who had that same setup posted on TH-cam, you can check it out. But if you are interested you could get the inverted 3250i setup also(1 front, 2 rears). IMO all setup are equally immersive just pending individual preference and budget. From my video you can see that I am being toss left and right, all details (bumps, Krebs) felt natural. I couldn't be happier. Oh 4400i and 4250i are basically the same, the last 3 digits represents the weight of each actuator could withstand (400i = up to 400lbs per actuator and 250i = 250lbs). I would recommend Dbox as it’s a really good system and the software supports quite abit of titles. If really budget is an issue there is the option to get 2250i, 2 x rear actuators setup which I was using before I upgrade to 3250i.
Hello Barry. Excellent review as always. Do you get a feel for different road surfaces, e.g. concrete versus tarmac since the 4 actuators mimic the 4 suspension points on a car? Did your setups for spring rates and sway bars change?
I am a strong believer in the "Cry Once" theory. There is a good chance down the road that I may be installing this system in another chassis. Didn't want be concerned about weight. Obviously the 400's are stronger than the 250's. How that translates to any difference in the immersive experience is anyone's guess. If only I had both the 4400i and the 4250i systems. Then we could test!
Thanks! Just wanted to be sure if it was a weight thing or if it was something else. Sure is some crying involved so I understand. And D-Box, perhaps they could send you a set for comparison... At least they would get a thorough review :-)
Sim Racing Garage Do you know how much the SimLab rig weighs? I’m sure you are well under, just curious. Great review. I’m super jealous actually. I also love the fact that it can double as bass shakers too! I’m sure you could put the whole rig on another platform that has traction loss motion down the road for the full DOF
I just came back today to watch THIS review AGAIN hahaha, because it is such a great one! Would be nice to know the difference between the D-box actuators and the PRS200 which uses prosimu.com now. Do you have experience with those PRS200 actuators? If yes, is there a big difference? Many premium motion rigs use the D-box and I am sure there is a good reason for that, your review shows how much you love them and I guess that is the one to go for if money is not an issue.
Sorry, can't speak to the PRS200 units. Never had the opportunity to try them. But yes, I do enjoy the D-Box units very much. Just wish they were more affordable.
Thanks Barry for answering again. I hope PROSIMU will be at the Sim Racing Expo at Nürburgring this year, because I plan to go there. I have tried the D-Box actuators myself last week and I also like them very much. Best regards Joe
Hi, What is the component that makes those actuators create those vibrations you mentioned ? What is the trick that others can't do ? Is it related to 100mm/s of speed ? Thank you.
That is super sweet, I have seen loss of traction on some Dbox set ups. Are you going to be adding your Quafe sequential and H pattern to this rig? Thanks for a great inside of the Dbox set up.
Already had the sequential mounted, just not for the session in this video. The Pro Sim H pattern shifter will require a bit more work to get it mounted properly. Get to it when I can.
Great review as always Barry. I'm very curious to understand what part of the D-Box offering drives the cost up so far that regular folk are not able to acquire and experience the "Analog" sensations provided with this configuration. Is it the software or hardware? Thanks
Great review-Barry! Was hoping you might indicate the dimensions of the actuator control boxes-not sure if they're bigger than the 4250i kit, but can I bother you to share? Can't find that spec anywhere on the internet!
The boxes are 245mmx200mmx80mm LxWxH. I believe they are the same as the i4250 boxes. The bolts for mounting the actuators to the brackets are 1/4 x 20 threads. With a ctr to ctr spacing of 45mm for the actuator's threaded holes.
Excelent Barry, do you think it would be better if the monitors were connected to the cockpit chassis? In a real car, the movements also go on the windshield and in the whole car.
Can't say really. I never had my monitors mounted to a moving chassis. What I can say is, I don't notice any negative effects having them mounted statically.
Very cool...but really...how many SIM drivers have $30,000.00+...even at the lower end of $20,000.00 taxes..shipping...nice but have to win the lottery to get this
It is shocking the costs when you part it all out it's really no where near what they are asking. Minus the software but I believe it started as open source. It defy's logic when you think about the kind of cars you can get for that sum, even more crazy when you think of the used cars you can get for that. Or, you could buy a real race car and have a year+ of budget if you raced spec miata's...
Trevor Snowden yes...and that is just the Rig. When you put in the DD base, Rim, Shifters, Pedals HandBrake Seat and ...then the PC and the Triples...it doesn't take long to start pushing the $50-60,000.00 I love SiM, but like I said...If I won the lottery or...unless someone gifted this to me...I can not see the average SIM guy having this. Even the ones who race for money...are not using motion rigs...it just doesn't make sense...IMO it's more of a noveity...for fun, and to add some depth to the immersion.
I tried a dbox rig last month at spar/Belgium the company were simtag was fantastic unfortunately the price for a full on set-up delivered to your door etc was hiting €60,000+ shame back to my thrustmaster tgt and single screen😥
Hi !! Where did you get the cup feet ??? i REALLY need those and i cant find it anywhere !!! i have 4 on my couch and i need 4 more and it is impossible to find lol :( Thank !! :)
I'm currently trying to set something up on my website so you can order a T-Shirt. Not sure if many would be interested. But, if you contact me at: info@simracinggarage.com we can work something out.
Hey Barry, since you recently did a Spenard Sim rig review; they offer a very interesting DBOX inclusive setup for much less than the reviewed kit here. Do you have an opinion about their DBOX installation (even tho it wasn't part of your review) in comparison to this one? I've been looking at their option as well as ProSimu's S1000-4 actuator kit as well.
I really don't like to give an opinion on something that I have not had time on. But, D-Box is a great system. I may be doing a review on the ProSimu kit in the near future.
Best channel on TH-cam. Sim racing garage.
In my years of sim racing I've never seen anyone put a motion system together. This was really cool.
not just put it together, but take it apart and then put it all back together. ;-)
Nobody dose review's like this guy, everything you need to know, plain and simple.
Thank you once again for sharing your passion with us! Appreciate your reviews as they have played a big part in most of my purchases. 👍
same here ;-)
first buy was the Simlab Tripple screen and then a Simlab P1 CHassis
Glad I could help you guys. This is the reason I go into such depth with my reviews. Trying to give as much information as possible, so someone can make a more informed decision when spending their hard earned money.
Best sim racing channel on TH-cam by a mile.
Sr...you are the men..... best channel by far about sim racing. greetings from argentina.
Thanks for showing us what a fresh Dbox setup is like!
When there is a new video on this channel my day just gets better!!
Dam you Barry. I didn't know it before but now I want a Dbox.
you need cash to enter
@@elmalloc hahahah
"the poors are about again"
17,000 my assholeeee ..but its badass. id be happy with a traction loss system!
Another perfect review, I love when I get a notification from The Sim Racing Garage. :)
This time, it just a bit out of my price range, but you never now, maybe one day ;)
Great job Barry.
Thorough review as always.
But have to ask; am I the only one who would like to see a lap of RallyCross done with this setup? :D Bit over do that jump and bottom out the suspension on the landing. Multi angle video request on that.
Rallycross and maybe Dirt Rally would be interesting to see!
@@henriquem3111 th-cam.com/video/gnKZUtwAzxs/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/gnKZUtwAzxs/w-d-xo.html
Any motion system relies on three main components working well and harmoniously together. The Motion Hardware (actuators, encoder, drives), the Controller (correct algorithm, proper pitch, roll, heave and effect setups) and the software logarithm (GIGO - garbage in and garbage out or ensuring that the data coming out of the game is high resolution enough and capable). D-BOX does this quite well and continually updates their codecs to best represent the motion in game. Still the representation is a human based decision still rather than a pure representation. Sometimes this is for obvious reasons, such as surpassing 1G. :-) Here is a video from some time ago, running Dirt Rally on 6" motion system and a very light HR chassis. Whole setup weighs about 55 lbs. th-cam.com/video/gnKZUtwAzxs/w-d-xo.html
You're the best Berry!! Glad to see more videos, keep it up.
Hell yes, the best reviewer is back! Apsolutely great stuff Barry 👏👏👏
Loved how Barry almost choked building up to the price.
It's a luxury toy.....looks amazing
brilliant review (as always) Barry - thank you for taking the timing to do such a comprehensive review.
I am really interested in a D Box system and this will really inform my future purchases very well....thank you!
Killin it as always Barry. Nice rig and bathroom ya added there. Keep on livin the dream.
Thank you for another great review, Barry!
Just found your channel. You're like a super sim nerd Bob Ross! Great vids, and the best voice in sim racing. 🤓👍
He has such wonderful toys...
this is someone who if he was reviewing a goat he would pull its guts out then put it back in to show you what's inside, although it is weird why he got only 20K subs!
Barry Rowland taking all sorts of risk taking off the cover of a dbox control unit! Great video as always, Barry. Glad you're enjoying your Dbox. There is a Facebook group of Dbox owners. Would definitely love to see you there!
What is the name of this group?
facebook.com/groups/1779234815443524/
Thanks
Outstanding, as always 👍🏻 Thinking about motion for a while now. This might be it...
great to see your review on the dbox, thanks for doing this for us all, enjoyed as always great content.
Thanks, glad you guys can get something out of my videos.
Hi Barry , Great video as always, Great to see what other sim racers think of the system , I have the D- Box Two actuator system on the rear of my sim rig and for those asking is it as good i can truly say it is fantastic you feel every bump and the traction loss feeling is amazing , If you are into F1 try it at Monaco there is a bump between Casino corner and Marabeau Haute where you feel the weight loss in the back end , The first time i hit it at speed i nearly had an orgasm lol , The system is expensive but like Barry says if you can afford it it is a dream setup to own , Keep up the good work Barry, Cheers flymo ferrari from across the pond in Northern ireland .
any pictures of your setup am considering the 2250i setup is that the one you have?
Another great review. Thank you! There is no question that the D-box is VERY expensive. However, when you compare the expense to that incurred with other hobbies such as boating or, at times, golf, the cost is not so steep.
Yet again you make a great review three thumbs up.
Great review Barry,,,Enjoy your new rig dude ,.
Why does this channel not have over a 100K subscribers?
I feel if you Incorporated more live stream racing you would see a bump in views and subs. Keep up the great work and man what a dream setup.
Nice work Barry! I'm new to the channel and simply love your approach on the way you describe things in detail. I'm one of the seat mover drivers, but also utilize Vr and wind simulation as well. The immersion is FANTASTIC!. Keep up the great work and you just gained a subscriber. Cheers!
You have a great setup there. It's all about the immersion for me to. Having so much fun, it's ok if I'm not the fastest driver on the track.
I've been touting the advantages of D-Box for ten years. Finally someone notices. LOL
Barry never seemed to have that much fun. With Dbox you don't need a traction loss unit. Fact.
That's one helluva nice hardcore review! If there ever was a world war, you could slap on some tyres on that rig, mount a couple of cannons and then go rule the battlefield! =) Thanks for an awesome video Barry!
Outstanding review Barry. This setup would certainly be fun to drive.
It is. I know it's in the "shiny new toy" stage still, but I am quite taken with it. Makes want to drive more.
Another great review Barry. I personally couldn't justify that sort of cost both from a financial perspective but also in terms of my lower desire for motion in my sim-racing. I still found the video absolutely fascinating regardless, and it suddenly makes sense why you chose the JCL rig in your push for a strong but super lightweight rig.
I also spy what looks like an Audi R8 LMS GT3 steering wheel in the background. Is it from Turn Engineering and what do you think of it? I'd love to see it in more detail but there's probably not much to say in depth about a steering wheel that hasn't already been said I suppose.
That's actually a Sim-Lab P1 chassis.. tho..
Good eye. I will have a review on that wheel soon.
Yes, but there still might be a JCL rig in the SRG's future.
Ah my bad. I noticed that the wheel deck had changed but thought it was the same rig. I've been scoping out Sim-labs lately so it should have been obvious! Thanks for clarifying though, and I guess it underlines the strength and power of the actuators.
Great review Brother and what a fantastic experience racing in your new D-Box system must be.
As always Barry, an excellent review!
The elephant in the room is of course the cost of the system.
In the interests of those of us who would aim for the stars and be happy to touch the moon (maybe?), would there be any possibility that you could stretch to a review of a 2 actuator setup (with a front pivot) on your cockpit.
Explaining the differences in feel between the 2 and 4 actuator setups, and whether you think that the 2 actuator setup would be a worthwhile entry point to this motion system (at a much reduced cost) for some of us would be appreciated.
Michael Wren I second this motion!
I give a third vote for this comparison (for those of us with $$$ instead of $$$$$)
I suspect unless they are getting paid to review a product , your expected comparison will not happen.
Well, if Dbox doesn't want to send him one b/c the likely result is that you will be plenty happy with a 2 actuator setup at 1/3 the price, perhaps someone within traveling distance has one they can offer up for him to review. Anyone?? Beuller?
wow this is just insane how far the rigs have advanced in compact form factor :o
Thanks Barry, top level stuff!!
Glad to hear you are enjoying your D-Box system. A little precision tough. Like you stated, the controller module can support 3 actuators. Thus, if you purchase a 3250i or 3400i you only need one controller module. Of course, that could also serve for expansion... But only D-Box knows 😉
I‘m really impressed by the noise level...thought it will make loud wining sounds due to the high rpm of the motors.
I'd love a review of the SFX100 diy system at the fraction of the cost for normal folk. Your review system is the most thorough out there and I think it would be great for the Sim racing community. They say the SFX100 is to the DBOX as the Mige is to a Bodnar DD wheel.
Great review as always, pretty sure this is simrig goals right there😍😍😍 Need a lottery win first though. I'm really curious to see how this performs in RallyX and RBR as I feel that'd be awesome to experience
Ur setup is amazing, awesome vid
Superb stuff, as always.
I have a race center with several DBox sims, here are some points I have:
- Why are you turning vibration off? It makes a huge difference and makes the experience much better. Even if you have bass shakers, I think you should turn them off and have the vibration from dbox. They are much stronger for sure.
- You definitely didn't need the 4400i model, the 4250i is more than enough for your setup
- Shockingly, I actually had a 4250i system, and 2250i system, and myself and everyone who tried both, all said the 2250i felt much better. You really need to try it. The 2250i system feels much more composed, predictable and realistic. Might be hard to believe, but it truly is much better.
- With that said, a 2250i system is around 5000$. So, you can have the awesome Dbox motion system for a much more reasonable price than the 17k you have.
You have the choice of mounting them front or rear, you can define that in the DBox control panel. I have them on the rear and love them.
For sure you don't even need simvibe once you have Dbox. The D-Box tactile is literally half of the effect. Please turn it on and tune it.
With the 4250i, the cockpit feels like itsfloating in the air, and theres too much going on. Regarding heave, the travel is only 1.5inches, so you cant really distinguish between the heave compared to roll and pitch.
With the 2250i, there are only 2 actuators, the cockpit feels much more solid, predictable, and more precise in the movement, you can tell exactly whats going on so it relates much better to the visual. Overall, the amount of motion you get is no less than the 4250i at all, you get plenty of motion and vibration from 2 actuators, just much more precise, which as a result, is more enjoyable and feels more realistic. English is not my first language so hopefully I was able to describe it well enough.
What cockpit are you using with the 2250i?
This I find very interesting. I have a Vesaro for 2250i 1.5 inch set up, but was/am considering a 4250i 3inch system (agree that you don't need 4400i, 250 pounds (113kg per corner is more than enough).
outstanding. rock solid and informative as alwaysaa
Thank you for the review. Watching and listening to your videos reminds me of MotorWeek. I loved that show. And your reviews feel like they would fit perfectly into that format like an extended segment. Could you do another video that shows how the D-BOX system works with rally sims like RBR, dirt and wrc 7 or the rallycross gameplay in i-racing and project CARS 2?
Great job as always. 👌
17000 dollars!!! OMG hmmm i'm getting a second hand porsche ;)
Very nice video....well always great vids. Very big thumbs up
top notch video as usual
Great Review again Barry! After watching this and that physics mechanics exercise paper filled with formulas, I have a crazy idea. What if someone manages to combine this Dbox system with the seat frame slider of JCL and top it with an RTL mechanism?
Sound like a project I would be very interested in!
Love your videos someday I’ll have a rig so cool
Thanks!
Barry! I just noticed, do set the motion vibration balance to the middle, you're missing out on what D-box is best at, delivering a range of motion from fine tactile vibrations all the way to full motion! there is seriously no need for simvibe with a d-box setup. Some argue tactile transducers give higher frequencies of vibrations but aren't those most of the vibrations you tend to avoid anyway? you want the low rumble of the engine, the tactile vibrations of the road.
So sick
nice review as usual !! next step is combining the two systems. The traction loss is a must for me...
Even though I am not really missing the Stage 4's TL, I can still catch slides rather easily, TL is on my list. But have to recover from my latest expenditures first. Might be a while. I'm already thinking of how to get the build done.
Just sell the Stage 4 and buy just the TL... We all here envy you!!
LOL! Already sold the Stage 4 to help finance the D-BOX.
Wow I guess you said so in the video I just missed it. I always thought my 3DOF system was the most realistic of them all (frex,simxperience and the kind) But after watching this video I am having second thoughts and I might try it myself. Thanks for all the info because we love serious unbiased reviews
Great stuff!
Would have liked to see more side-by-sides of the rig vs. what's on screen...
Awesome, regardless.
Another great review Barry! You must have a very understanding wife lol
Yes, she is the greatest. Hard to find one like her.
Hi ya Barry,
had me hooked, right up until you mentioned the price !!!!
I want to see you do a flight combat game using this. I can’t imagine how incredible it could simulate g forces.
Barry, What if you mount your belts to the floor instead of the rig? The reason we "feel" the g forces in the real car is because our bodies have linear momentum against the changes in velocity of the car transmitted through the straps and seat. With straps mounted off the rig these forces would be transmitted directly with even less movement of the d-box required.
I have a different solution in the works.
@@simracinggarage3026 can you please share
I think you should check out the new VR headsets, it'll blow your mind with that rig.
i really like this one
Barryyyyyy!!!! great stuff
Thanks!
Congratulations on you dbox It looks great!!! I would like one but like you say the cost is to much for me.
After trying the D-Box motion, the Stage 4 and other concepts i can safely say, my GS-5 is better than that, if you just running one system. I get similar heave effects plus a lot more g-forces in all directions compare to the D-Box-system. Together with my big buttkicker in SimVibe seat (especially for engine vibrations and road noise) and some smaller ones for the pedals, my setup is IMO better than any motion-rig i tested. And this are 8 so far plus mine, ranging from 1500 to 40k Euros. The combination of Stage 3, GS-5 and SimVibe is IMO the ultimate motion-rig you can buy for about 9k.
I'm thinking about getting a GS-5 and am curious, where did you mount your buttkicker? And is it just one?
@@wredmatic There was enough space to mount my Buttkicker Concert under the seat between the servos. It's just one and far more powerful than the four 100 Watt shakers I was using before just for the rear. Since the seat gives me the direction of feedback I don't need additional shakers even I own two smaller ones I could mount, but I don't feel them anyway. You can also mount four small Dayton shakers in each of the plates of the GS-5, there are cut outs for those shakers, but I haven't done it as well. This big Buttkicker want some travel to work with (and to dampen the rig against neighbours) and my 80/20 rig has a suspension made with Brooks-springs for bicycle saddles. I use 10 of those springs (50 bucks) and they have a nice stiffness. The effects are more natural from both the Buttkicker and the GS-5. Also I would suggest to reverse the back and and butt plates effects and use a harness. A seat mover usually pushes the body towards the wheel while braking and the GS-5 does the opposite on default. Since I reversed the function it feels a lot better and like nothing is missing. Just the announced belt tensioner from SimXperience seem like a great addition. Than it would make sense to switch to default again and get the best braking effect in Sim Racing: You feel the belt stretching your shoulder while your back loosing contact to the seat like in a real car:)
PS: I upgraded some other stuff in the meanwhile, but nothing with feedback
www.dropbox.com/s/6d2jw1ciuili1p5/My-Rig%2BGS-5.jpg?dl=0
Wow thats awsome but at 4000 per actuator sounds crazy expensive. Although the thought of 250 per month for this system doesnt sound that bad if your home is paid off. But still its so hard for me to believe that those 4 electric small motors and electric box cost more that a fully functional brand new real car .
OMFG I WANT THIS
You too can have 4 - 3” actuators rated at 400lbs for $28k usd !
Go all out and get the 4 - 6" actuators rated at 500lbs for 34k
DES Simulation , it wasn’t on your website ... :)
Yes it is but you have to clear the selection because 6" are only available in 500lbs. They are designed for full cockpit flight simulators
DES Simulation , very cool ... trade you for a 800hp ZL1 Camaro :)
What color? ;-)
Barry, thanks for all the great content! No one does sim hardware reviews quite like you. Thank you for that. Have you ever seen the ProSimu PRS 200 actuators? Do you think it would be possible to accomplish the same thing you accomplished here with those actuators? Would love to just bite the bullet and go d-box, but the ProSimu option is more in my budget. Thanks again and looking forward to more great content.
I haven't tried the ProSimu. You would think it would be similar to the D-BOX. But you never really know until you actually use it. It does seem louder than the D-BOX. My actuators are very quite in comparison. If that even matters. Maybe someday I'll get a chance to give that system a go.
I agree, comparing videos of the two it seems as if the D-Box actuators are quieter. If I wasn't on a budget d-box would be a no-brainer.
Bryce, contact us, maybe we can work something out
Thanks, DES. I will send you an email via your contact form on your website.
Nice review Barry! I wish you could if you compare this very-very expensive D-Box System (about 17000$ USD) with the 4 Mega-Monster Actuator of the company PT-Actuator (about 5200$ USD). I'm sure the result is the same, but for a lot less money.
Hahahahahahahha - $17,000. I feel like emailing D-box to ask them to justify that pricing model. I think their response will make me laugh even more than this ridiculous price.
Shaddup
@Harrie McBollox Then why aren't you guys marketing your own unit for 1/2 the cost and making money ?
Back to your parents basement to think you know what you are taking about.
@Harrie McBollox lol. You're not buying materials. You are buying a product. If you can't afford quality, buy a knock off/cheaper model and pretend it is as good. Some people pretend their honda is just as good as a BMW, no difference just a lot more crying over the price.
But uh ya, you go ahead and try to put together a working 4 actuator kit for $2k. Or any proper, motion system for that.
lol.
Late Apex it must be hard to make, And you can’t mass produce them to make money because not that many people are buying them. So getting them made without mass producing would be expensive enough to justify $17,000
Great Video...Have you ever thought about combining the two cockpits for the optimum experience???
The best Simulators in the world D-Box i4400 / i4250
I see a MFG Crosswind in the background. Are you going to use this motion rig for flying as well? I think it's time for a Sim Flying Garage!
Yeah, I enjoy the flying sims also. Just not enough time to do videos on both.
Hi great video!!! I am wondering if ur set up is the 1.5 or 3.0 4400
Currently on the 1.5 inch set.
Hi Barry nice review as always, what speakers you using on the new rig they look nice and compact with decent driver sizes.
They are called "Orb" www.orbaudio.com/ bit pricey but sound quite good. Found a good price on a six speaker set with a subwoofer. They are using a 3" full range aluminum driver, with no crossover circuit, in each Orb. I bought them because they are more compact than most speakers you can find. But still able to handle up to 125 watts. As an added bonus I thought they would simulate mirrors better than any other speaker out there I could find.
Although mine is only 3250i but it was really awesome. Just one system will do motion and vibration not like other system where you would need butt kicker for optimize immersion.
Newbie Sim Racer how do you like the 3 point set up? Have u used the 4250 to compare any differences? I’ve read positive things about the 3, but very little comparison. Thanks.
Eliminator I love my 3250i alot and mine would be the Y setup, meaning 2 fronts and 1 rear actuator setup. The only difference is the lateral sensation for the rear would be slightly less aggressive.
Barry said he felt the traction loss but when I was driving my friend's 4400I I could not feel it, maybe it’s just me. My friend later combined his 4400I setup with SIM Experience traction loss and it was awesome.
There is a guy who had that same setup posted on TH-cam, you can check it out. But if you are interested you could get the inverted 3250i setup also(1 front, 2 rears). IMO all setup are equally immersive just pending individual preference and budget.
From my video you can see that I am being toss left and right, all details (bumps, Krebs) felt natural. I couldn't be happier. Oh 4400i and 4250i are basically the same, the last 3 digits represents the weight of each actuator could withstand (400i = up to 400lbs per actuator and 250i = 250lbs).
I would recommend Dbox as it’s a really good system and the software supports quite abit of titles. If really budget is an issue there is the option to get 2250i, 2 x rear actuators setup which I was using before I upgrade to 3250i.
top notch
As always Barry an excellent review my question to you is where did you get the brackets were you mounted the actuators to your rig
They are included in the kit.
Sim Racing Garage thank you I just placed my order hopefully gets here soon enough
Hello Barry. Excellent review as always. Do you get a feel for different road surfaces, e.g. concrete versus tarmac since the 4 actuators mimic the 4 suspension points on a car? Did your setups for spring rates and sway bars change?
Been searching high and low for a D--Box review - thank you for doing a fabulous job at it! Could you tell us why you chose the 400 lbs over the 250?
pouls1 stronger feeling?
I am a strong believer in the "Cry Once" theory. There is a good chance down the road that I may be installing this system in another chassis. Didn't want be concerned about weight. Obviously the 400's are stronger than the 250's. How that translates to any difference in the immersive experience is anyone's guess. If only I had both the 4400i and the 4250i systems. Then we could test!
Thanks! Just wanted to be sure if it was a weight thing or if it was something else. Sure is some crying involved so I understand. And D-Box, perhaps they could send you a set for comparison... At least they would get a thorough review :-)
pouls1 Yes, the difference is just the weight handling capability, no difference in velocity.
Sim Racing Garage Do you know how much the SimLab rig weighs? I’m sure you are well under, just curious.
Great review. I’m super jealous actually. I also love the fact that it can double as bass shakers too!
I’m sure you could put the whole rig on another platform that has traction loss motion down the road for the full DOF
Production quality really did go up over the years didn't it
I just came back today to watch THIS review AGAIN hahaha, because it is such a great one!
Would be nice to know the difference between the D-box actuators and the PRS200 which uses prosimu.com now.
Do you have experience with those PRS200 actuators? If yes, is there a big difference?
Many premium motion rigs use the D-box and I am sure there is a good reason for that, your review shows how much you love them and I guess that is the one to go for if money is not an issue.
Sorry, can't speak to the PRS200 units. Never had the opportunity to try them. But yes, I do enjoy the D-Box units very much. Just wish they were more affordable.
Thanks Barry for answering again. I hope PROSIMU will be at the Sim Racing Expo at Nürburgring this year, because I plan to go there. I have tried the D-Box actuators myself last week and I also like them very much.
Best regards Joe
Hi,
What is the component that makes those actuators create those vibrations you mentioned ? What is the trick that others can't do ? Is it related to 100mm/s of speed ?
Thank you.
That is super sweet, I have seen loss of traction on some Dbox set ups. Are you going to be adding your Quafe sequential and H pattern to this rig? Thanks for a great inside of the Dbox set up.
Already had the sequential mounted, just not for the session in this video. The Pro Sim H pattern shifter will require a bit more work to get it mounted properly. Get to it when I can.
Hey Barry, Thanks for another awesome video ! Can you tell me if this is a Gen 1 or Gen 2 Kit ?
Gen 2.
Great review as always Barry. I'm very curious to understand what part of the D-Box offering drives the cost up so far that regular folk are not able to acquire and experience the "Analog" sensations provided with this configuration. Is it the software or hardware? Thanks
Really have no idea. I guess it just comes down to what people are willing to pay.
I wanna take it for a spin :)
Great review-Barry! Was hoping you might indicate the dimensions of the actuator control boxes-not sure if they're bigger than the 4250i kit, but can I bother you to share? Can't find that spec anywhere on the internet!
also could really use the actuator mounting bolt sizes and their spacing on the actuator as well if you'd be willing... thank you!
The boxes are 245mmx200mmx80mm LxWxH. I believe they are the same as the i4250 boxes. The bolts for mounting the actuators to the brackets are 1/4 x 20 threads. With a ctr to ctr spacing of 45mm for the actuator's threaded holes.
Excelent Barry, do you think it would be better if the monitors were connected to the cockpit chassis? In a real car, the movements also go on the windshield and in the whole car.
Can't say really. I never had my monitors mounted to a moving chassis. What I can say is, I don't notice any negative effects having them mounted statically.
Very cool...but really...how many SIM drivers have $30,000.00+...even at the lower end of $20,000.00 taxes..shipping...nice but have to win the lottery to get this
It is shocking the costs when you part it all out it's really no where near what they are asking. Minus the software but I believe it started as open source. It defy's logic when you think about the kind of cars you can get for that sum, even more crazy when you think of the used cars you can get for that. Or, you could buy a real race car and have a year+ of budget if you raced spec miata's...
Trevor Snowden yes...and that is just the Rig. When you put in the DD base, Rim, Shifters, Pedals HandBrake Seat and ...then the PC and the Triples...it doesn't take long to start pushing the $50-60,000.00
I love SiM, but like I said...If I won the lottery or...unless someone gifted this to me...I can not see the average SIM guy having this.
Even the ones who race for money...are not using motion rigs...it just doesn't make sense...IMO it's more of a noveity...for fun, and to add some depth to the immersion.
I tried a dbox rig last month at spar/Belgium the company were simtag was fantastic unfortunately the price for a full on set-up delivered to your door etc was hiting €60,000+ shame back to my thrustmaster tgt and single screen😥
I still rock my g27 and single 23 inch screen,I am not very smart so I can’t afford these goodies unfortunately,God hates us.
Barry great video! Did you build pit that you attached the D2 to or was it a kit. It doesn’t look like the jcl from previous video?
Thanks
Terry
Yes, this cockpit is the Sim Labs P1 in black. Working on a review for that one. Maybe a couple of more weeks before I can publish it.
Nice
what are the brand of the speakers and where did you get the mount for speakers.
a pain in the ass to install for the usual sim racing person, the next level v3 motion is way more user friendly and way more affordable!
This mostly transfers bumps and it doesn't seem to make turning, braking and accelerating that immersive
Hi !! Where did you get the cup feet ??? i REALLY need those and i cant find it anywhere !!! i have 4 on my couch and i need 4 more and it is impossible to find lol :( Thank !! :)
Hey Barry, It might have been in the video but may have missed it but what are the measurements of the D-box control boxes? Thanks!
Nice shirt Barry. Can I get a Sim Racing Garage T-shirt?
I'm currently trying to set something up on my website so you can order a T-Shirt. Not sure if many would be interested. But, if you contact me at: info@simracinggarage.com we can work something out.
I would
Hey Barry, since you recently did a Spenard Sim rig review; they offer a very interesting DBOX inclusive setup for much less than the reviewed kit here. Do you have an opinion about their DBOX installation (even tho it wasn't part of your review) in comparison to this one? I've been looking at their option as well as ProSimu's S1000-4 actuator kit as well.
I really don't like to give an opinion on something that I have not had time on. But, D-Box is a great system. I may be doing a review on the ProSimu kit in the near future.