BATTLE AGAINST A TRUE HERO Confuses Game Composer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Today we are finally featuring some Undertale music here in the channel, and it's Battle Against a True Hero! The Undertale soundtrack is legendary. Even I, who didn't play the game, have heard some of it. It was fun to break down Battle Against a True Hero and try to uncover it's meaning from the perspective of an outsider to Undertale!
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Glad to finally be covering Undertale music here in the channel! This one was so cool. I gotta do more Undertale videos soon.
In the meantime, make sure to check out the videos I've done on Hollow Knight music: th-cam.com/video/mSlZZAc48BY/w-d-xo.html
My 2 favorite games
I’d love more undertale music vids. This was so intriguing to watch.
Omg, thank youuu, i really love both soundtrack
The heroic one is her because to fight her u need to kill everyone and is only in the genocid3 route
You should do the track "Undertale" itself. It really is the crown jewel of the soundtrack.
This guy is discovering the plot of the genocide route through the music and that’s probably a real testament to Toby’s music
it is. toby is a genius when it came to the music. i feel the same is present in deltarune
@@ndfirish27 He made like 6 songs in undertale-
@@randomguy6909 no I think he composed all the undertale songs.
@@SwiftlySev He literally said this
@@randomguy6909 wait I’m confused so are you saying he composed 6 songs or agreeing with me?
1:10 ironically an older version of Undyne's main theme was scrapped because Toby believed it didn't sound like "being heroically punched in the face"
Spear of justice does have that vibe...
@@myth0s_pumpkin806 hence why it was used for the final version of Undertale
Toby knows what he's doing XD
@TartyRollsHe’s kinda made his own version of music theory, he may not study it but he does use it - intentionally or not, as a storytelling aspect. Just look at gasters theme - all the characters who are connected to him - through being a scientist, or something deeper / speculation have a theme connected to him.
@TartyRollsand? He still knows what he is doing. Not everyone needs to do the same shit.
A big part of the point of this track, I feel, is that like you said, you SHOULDN'T be battling against a true hero. This track is indeed from the evil route, so the heroic overtone is all from her, but there is a bitter undertone from the fact that this is not a fight that should ever have happened, and a melancholy that comes from the game being aware that you're the protagonist; the True Hero is going to lose, and you're going to win. This song is her final stand, but facing off against her as she throws everything she's got at you is, nevertheless, glorious to behold.
Add onto that the implication that, no matter what happens, Undyne would die.
She loses, and you just straight kill her.
If she wins, then it's implied she'd melt from the overwhelming amounts of Determination that's keeping her together.
@@yourcollegedebt8384 there’s a TH-cam video titled “what the internet did to undertale” that explains this in depth. The fight is essentially rigged, because you can respawn, but undyne cannot, meaning as long as you have the patience, it’s inevitable that you beat her. This is also reflected in the music, which sounds very heroic, but there is also an element of inevitability to it. It’s beautiful
Do y’all understand that you can get some understanding of the game’s story just by listening to the soundtrack? That’s how good Toby Fox’s music is.
This gave me chills xD
@@OlTimeyChara same
7:52 man literally started believing in undyne without knowing who undyne is.
Power of everyones hearts beating as one I guess.
Innit
The ambiguous chords you mentioned feels "desperate" to me. In the midst of Undyne's heroism and (fatal) determination to defeat you, she is also madly desperate. Her failure means the death of everyone she knows.
Totally agree, desperation was my thought exactly
And the death happened. Sans fight, is already after you killed everyone, so you can tell why megalovania track is SO different.
@@krej1243 I would say Megalovania is the track of the unexpected challenge. Something unexpected as a powerful Sans.
@@eddornelesaaand.. That's the thing. He is NOT powerful. Whatever you say, he has 1 atk and 1 def. He's hard for us, but to monsters? He would be nothing. But yeah I totally agree with you. Just picking on details as always ;)
@@krej1243 He min-maxed to destroy humans
1:10 "So punchy" Undyne would take that as a compliment
And toby fox lol that was his whole goal
fr lmfao
Perfectly sums up Undyne’s personality
A somewhat important thing to note with Undertale music is that it's composed in a 24-tone system.
You made it to his video, well done
That means it's slightly pitch-shifted, correct?
The True Hero is here, hoorayy!!!
@@jamesedleymusic Not necessarily iirc, from my basic understanding it just means that you have more tones available to use
@@dooplon5083 I remember I was trying to play Fallen Down on piano and I couldn't find the key it was in.
"I'm not sure if this battle is a good thing or a bad thing"
It's a TERRIBLE thing lmao. But it's also one of the most (if not the most) inspiring moments in the game. Great video, man, really enjoyed it, subscribed!
Welcome, my friend
Honestly once I hit this fight, I couldn't continue the "Evil" route any further and started over on another pacifist route, not even nessisary because it was too difficult, but the emotional reaction I had to it was too overwhelming to carry on or focus, good music and a good story is a heck of a thing to really expiriance
@@UNSCPILOT man... If only I was able to play undertale blind back then
Most inspiring is still hopes and dreams IMO
@@kx7500yea I think its amazing but doesn’t leave any underlying “genius” tones these ones do. It just fits where it’s at perfectly. from a composer standpoint it’s perfect but it could fit into many places. These songs though seem like they wouldn’t fit anywhere else.
This theme can only be heard in the genocide run, where you became the villain and kill everyone, the boss is the true hero here. This theme shows how evil you are and the theme is cheering on the boss. It is heroic and positive but not for you. Its a really beautiful theme.
*genocide
Yeah, there’s two full boss themes in genocide, one is Undyne’s.
The other is your boss theme.
@@mr.stuffdoer8483 Sans?
@@nothanz7409 Sans theme is "Song that might play when you fight sans"
You, the players theme, is Megalovania.
It's not all heroic. The underlying melancholy of it is due to the fact that you can't lose. No matter how many times you die, you can always try again. The True Hero can't, and is destined to fall despite her efforts
Dude has never played undertale but comprehends the story and fight of undyne just by the music - this is a true testament to how much of a master toby fox is at his craft
He did say he heard about it having different routes, like an evil route.
@@syweb2yeah but he didn’t know which one or which character
@@syweb2yeah, but he isn't listening to the songs in a specific order or rather he doesn't know which songs belong to which route. Judg from the title and demeanor of the song he can understand
Fox is a beast of a man. How on Earth is he so good at composing music, writing, programming, all at once??
@@squintword I heard somewhere that the code is actually awful on undertale, so many redundancies and inefficient code. But still it's able to make something beautiful. It's inspiring that you don't need to be a expert to make something beautiful, just a dream and determination.
In my opinion, this song is the song that plays at the absolute climax of the evil route, there is so much emotion and different feelings going through your mind and this song encapsulates it all. Greif, justice, determination, denial, heroism. It’s just so perfect.
Megalovania go home
@@Silthurnix I know what I'm about to say has been repeated 10,000's of times, but Megalovania was always, *always* overrated.
@@Unoriginal____Starwalker Overrated, but not undeserving.
@@Unoriginal____Starwalker For me, it was more about Sans secretly being a badass.
@@Silthurnix Battle Against a True Hero Is a last stand in a narrative sense.
Megalovania is a last stand in a designer sense.
The former is regret by emotion; you are the baddy at the point of no return. The latter regret by force; you are absolutely aware of what you're doing and do not care, you monster.
Neither will pull any punches.
The music at 5:20 and 7:45 is absolutely a callback to Asgore. It's a reminder of Undyne's royal duties as a knight and her pure loyalty to her friends and kingdom. So beautiful
I almost heard that at first as more of a snowdin flashback, mostly because of the jingling tambourine(?) punctuating it making it feel more christmassy. But I definitely hear the asgore influence too, and either way I think this section is totally Undyne reflecting on those she cares about and what she's fighting for, thus when it returns to the battle mode after it's more motivated again. Determination refresher kinda thing
That little melodic figure appears in the themes of a lot of characters having to do with "determination". Asgore, this version of Undyne's theme, Alphys, Flowey.
If I remember correctly this battle takes place at the one point where you truly take the plunge into being wholly evil, up until that point you've killed everyone you've encountered but it was always a fight, in this case you attempt to kill a child who clearly trusted you and was not a threat and that is where the "true hero" intervenes
Almost. You are completely evil here as you have to actively search for Monsters to kill until each area has been cleaned out. This is simply the True Hero finally catching up to you.
The becoming truly bad starts when you slaughter a guy who literally stood before you and said "you have good inside of you, I want to help you!" and offered you a hug while sparing you the whole time. The actively trying to kill a literal child part is just the icing on the flesh-cake
@@exist4046 been years since I did genocide, forgot some of the details
@@tristangoncalves1417 killing Papyrus is like, one of the biggest parts of the whole run. It's basically considered the point of no return. Everyone before him attacked you first, you could chalk it up to "self defense", but he is one of the few ENTIRELY morally innocent characters in the whole game. Of course I also do a lot of analyzing Undertale since it's my special interest, but yeah. Nothing against you for having foggy memories about the geno run, honestly I never even completed it since I'm shit at platformers and the Sans battle is sorta JUST platforming.
@@exist4046 is it papyrus that offered help? i tried doing genocide and tbh he was the person that stopped me on my track
7:10
"You shouldn't be battling a true hero, you should be the true hero"
THIS.
It's incredible how the Undertale OST can give you the meaning of the song without you even playing the game (well, kinda)
This guy does this with everything. He also does it perfectly with hollow knight too.
Well dude it was literally in the title of the track
@@kx7500 yeah but the guy hasnt played undertale, just know it
@@Somerandomguy2763 well he has actually, just not until after this video. Was kinda a sht show of a playthrough too lol
@@kx7500 i watched the Fitst part of his play through and all i thought when hes battling a monster is "Use the goddarn ACT button"
Knowing Toby Fox, the Mitsuda Lick reference was absolutely deliberate. The switch to 3/4 time is interesting too, since *every* other song about this character is in 3/4 or 6/8 time.
except run
I would say the mitsuda lick could be a reference from Undyne thinking anime is real history
@@smithy1578yeah, that fits far too well.
Toby absolutely played Chrono Trigger, so I do believe the Mitsuda Lick was intentional.
@@HalfBreadChaos Considering how the song Reunited uses Chrono Trigger’s soundfont, it would be impossible for it to not be a deliberate nod.
9:42 With the context of the game/character, I believe this section is more of a rallying point for Undyne, feeling close to overwhelmed, she reflects on what she’s trying to protect, hence why we get the shift back into that fast paced intensity of the following section. It’s almost like the track is voicing her thoughts in the moment with something along the lines of, “I don’t know if I can do this for me, but I must do this for them.”
I also think its when she rememembers papyrus, his crew was 4 people, ( Alphys, Asgore, Papyrus and her) 1,2,3,4 -1,2,3,4, now one is gone and ain't coming back
@@afeyowrimer9727thats not a crew those are her friends
Her crew should be the royal guard which at this point all are dead exept 1 and 2 and herself of course
Yeah. The leitmotif here lines up with that, as it's the theme of the kingdom of monsters
Minor spoilers ahead, just a quick warning for that:
So, this song plays during a fight only encountered in the 'genocide' route (aka the evil route) and it signifies the point if no-return. Up untill this fight, you can still diverge from the evil path to take a neutral path instead (except having killed everyone before). As soon as you reach this fight; you're effectively locked into the evil path. The person you are fighting gains a boost of extreme energy/strength through determination to stop you, which makes her the last hope of the underground. And she has trained all her life for this exact situation. But not only does she know that, if you beat her, the underground is doomed... She also knows that, if she doés beat you, she will also die (because the strength of determination is lethal to monsters). So there is happiness, because she gets to fullfill her duty and destiny, and because she gained the extra strength through determination to be able to actually stand up against the player. But there is also sadness, because she knows she will die no matter what, and because she knows that her failing will make you unstopable. So this is where the duality of the song comes from. Both the hope of stopping you, and the breaking truth that everything is lost if she fails.
Actually, if you don't kill all the monsters in Hotland you can still get a neutral ending.
It's a bittersweet one to be honest.
"Minor spoilers" they said while fully disclosing a character's arc
@@DrawciaGleam02 yeah if you dont kill all of them you cant beat Mettaton NEO
Actually I don't think Undyne has *any* idea what Determination, the "power" and not the emotion itself, is capable of. Or what it does when injected/stuck in monsters.
@@TheSweetSpirit she probably doesn't. That being said; what I said still stands, as it's clear she is aware of the fact she gained extra strength from some source.
Spoilers up ahead, because you mentioned that you never played Undertale, but the "gentle" part is actually a motif from her love interest, Alphys, a nerd, goofy, and a weeb scientist whose also in-love with Undyne. That part really hit me, because of how dramatic it sounds. Undyne knowing that she might die, still never fails to remember her friends, especially Alphys. You mentioning that the chords give off the "happy" and the "sad" emotional weight onto them really symbolizes how happy Undyne is in meeting Alphys, and how both of them would be devastated if Undyne loses that battle. What more can I say, that sly dog really is a master of creating such beautiful music. It's terrifying.
I really want to believe you, because I really like their relationship dynamic and I think it's a fantastic head canon. But I can't find anything about this other than a very brief video that to me makes it clear that they're not the same motif. They're vaguely similar in motion, but the notes aren't the same, or even the same steps apart, and even if they were the same it's pulling from the least memorable part of Alphys' theme instead of the motif that gets used throughout the game, including the underground lab.
I would absolutely love to be proven wrong though, because again, if it's actually true that it's an Alphys motif then that adds so much to an already emotional and memorable song. I desperately want that extra meaning to be there. I just can't hear it currently.
@@abderianagelast7868 I would like you to compare 0:31 of the track "Alphys", and 1:31 of "Battle Against a True Hero", it's basically a sped up version of the Alphys motif.
Also take note, before the Undyne date, when she plays the piano, the notes coming from the piano are also, a motif from Alphys. Just a slight Easter egg.
when dog that likes lesbian ships can make the best music
@@enemykiller30 Its actually waterfall 3rd motif but heavily changed but it also ckinda sounds like alphys so it may be both
Oh my GOD you’re RIGHT!?
There are a lot of people reacting to game music, but your channel is special, because you are really knowledgeable about music theory and actually analyse the soundtracks in depth. As someone a little familiar with music theory (but by far not an expert), it is great to learn things from your reactions.
Thank you!
Most reaction channels be like: 🗿.................................................................................. nice
There's just something special about game music. I suppose it's the fact that it has to be composed with replayability in mind. If the player is going to be hearing the music repeatedly, the composer (especially a good one) will make it more interesting so that the player doesn't get sick of it. That's why game music seems to be on another level for a lot of people.
@@jamesedleymusic if the music can make you feel more connected with the games environment and environmental story telling, etc. It can make the experience far richer. :)
4:13 this man picked up on a leitmotif present throughout waterfall that I never noticed through several playthroughs/watches my goodness
😂 same
it's not just in waterfall, it's also in the tutorial world in the first ruins where you meet toriel, just slowed down
RUINS leitmotif?
Also An Ending leitmotif
@@robloxboy7720 An Ending is Ruins Leitmotif if I remember correctly
the melody you played at 4:36 is from a song called “Ruins”, and it’s basically a leitmotif representing determination, which fits for this song because - as you said - it’s a true hero trying to take down you, the villan
It's also the song used in the neutral ending ("An ending") and the song that plays during Undyne's death if you kill her in a neutral run. (It's not part of the official soundtrack, but you can find it as "Undyne's end" on youtube)
@@Hugonche29 it’s used in a lot of songs, like waterfall, don’t give up, and an ending like you said
(also the undyne death theme is just the middle part of an ending)
AND in undyne's regular battle theme!
@@macaronandcheese18113 but a little bit quicker, but yeah! Since the first time I played the the game (neutral route) I felt it was very familiar to the Ruins
i always assumed it represented the Underground
"Is the person that you're fighting the heroic one, and you're the evil one?"
Knowing the context of the song, that comment hurt every inch of my soul. Spot on.
Also I had never heard of the Misuda Lick, but knowing Toby Fox, it was probably intentional. Undertale itself is like a love letter to old-school JRPGs, so I wouldn't be surprised if he put that in intentionally as a tribute - it seems even more likely considering the character this song references is basically an over-the-top anime or JRPG hero lol
I write and play music and I had also never heard OF this as the Mitsuda lick. But I am completely familiar with Yasunori Mitsuda, his use of it, and often use this lick myself. You can also hear it for example in Legend of Zelda OoT's Title Theme. I also associate this lick with old school jrpgs but it also just slaps when it lands on a major 7th. I just wanted to say it's definitely intentional but it's just one of many, many musical tributes to old 16-bit rpgs. The bass section in this song in particular is like iconically super nintendo; games like 7th Saga.
I love how he tries to explain every single detail to my monke brain
😂
Same
Undyne's role in the no mercy route is incredible, because it shows a side of her you don't see in the pacifist route. For the first half of the pacifist route, she treats you with malice and spite. In the first half of the no mercy route, she behaves much the same, except you deserve it. In the former, she eventually questions herself. In the latter, she has no reason to.
It's such a complicated feeling, to have befriended these characters in the hero route, but not get to see them surpass their limits and bring their full might to bear until you play the villain route and they need to stop you. I feel so happy for them, seeing them unlock their own potential, but look at the circumstances under which it had to happen.
Yes, this song plays during the evil route. To give context, you're about to literally _murder_ a child when this character intervenes and saves them. This marks the character as a true hero whom you now have to battle against.
Yea, but you are also a child. But still murdering a child
tbf you're a child too
a murderous, bloodthirsty one but still
11:40 Wow, the closer you are to victory - the sadder is the song. Unbelievable, Toby Fox is a genius
This entire fight is "It didnt have to come to this."
And the song really emphasizes it as you said with the sad chords
*The wind is howling.*
The amount of focus and adrenaline and DETERMINATION I feel when hearing that calm (but surprisingly fast and precise) piano in the beginning is unmatched.
Toby Fox does a lot of references to various media. Mitsuda lick was probably intentional. The trumpet usage in the way he uses it is also very reminiscent of a composer called ZUN's style for his music. So, Toby had a ton of fun composing this track most likely, lol.
the structure also mimics ZUN’s composers
I'd argue the Mitsuda lick was very intentional as it's the main difference between that part of the melody and the "Determination" leitmotif.
The whole track is quite a zun's style music and i love it
The whole boss battle is basically traditional danmaku
10:58 That's not just any progression, that's a *Royal Road* progression, which is all over Japanese music, and adds a bit of melodrama to the piece. Compare to Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up" and "Together Forever".
As in "Royal Road" from Kirby Triple Deluxe?
No, Royal Road uses a unique chord progression.
The “mitsuda lick” is something I’ve heard and heard of a million times but never knew what it was exactly so I appreciate you finally teaching me 😅. You picked a fantastic array of songs to showcase it as well, I think that caught me off guard more than anything because I love all of those songs (and games). I honestly wasn’t expecting to know every single one of them but I do.
Heck yes, this song is so underrated. Undertale's Touhou song.
Those surprise ZUNpets hit so good.
I love these videos because hearing someone's first impression is such a wonderful way to rediscover and fall in love with a track all over again. I also learned a good deal watching it. Thank you! Subbed.
Thank you and welcome!
666 likes LoL
I love seeing him light up when he listens to the music. I get so giddy when he nails it on the head and completely understands a character JUST BY THEIR THEME.
Its been years but I still get so happy when people give it love because the fandom is my home.
What a surprise! Didn't expect this sort of cover from you. However, I'm not disappointed at all, as it's my favorite song in the game for a multitude of reasons. Toby Fox is a musical genius.
I’m no composer, I don’t understand any of the technical terms at all - but listening to you describe music and react is just exactly why I love listening to music. I love paying attention and just listening to all these tiny background things over and over. It’s just delightful and it’s great hearing someone explain why I feel certain things when I listen to this soundtrack.
Toby Fox is indeed a man of culture, he stated that he loves Chrono Trigger and I'm pretty sure that's where he took the Mitsuda lick from. He made a chrono trigger remix in 2011, and since then he made a lot of amazing music for various projects, like Homestuck for example. I think after you finish breaking down some of his Undertale songs you can check out some from there, I'd recommend listening to "Black", "Savior Of The Waking World", "English", "Descend" and maybe you can compare the Homestuck version of megalovania with the undertale one! (I believe there is like at least 5 versions of this song made by him) Love your content and this video!
Apologies if anything is misunderstood, I'm not a native speaker
I know he at least took Megalovania from Earthbound/Mother 2, or made that for himself.
@@michaelhuff7712 close, megalovania was originally made for toby's earthbound rom hack from 2011, which was mostly composed by him with some heavy inspiration from a song in the brandish 2 soundtrack
I wanna see him compare the undertale and smash Megalovania. Especially after now when he reacted to HeartAche
just a side note, the melody at 7:37 is the same as Alphy's theme, who's Undyne's (the true hero in this case) love interest. In the context, Alphys is running away with the other citizens from you because ofc you're the bad guy in this route. The melody might sound happier because it might be undyne's hope of seeing her again maybe? I don't know much of music theory myself but I think it's a nice thing to point out
"Battle AGAINST a True Heroe" is true in the sense that we are the Antagonist in this scenario. ,,But the Earth Refused to Die" is one the best ones in the game and comes right before this one and is exactly what it says on the tin.
We want to destroy the world, the true heroe tries to stop us. They fail. We proceed.
Hero
Frisk is the protagonist. Antagonist doesn't mean bad guy, protagonist doesn't mean good guy. Undyne is still the antagonist in this case
When I read "We proceed" I remember an animation related to Toby's other big game Deltarune and the evil route in its second chapter. That honestly sent me a bit of shivers.
@@paulstelian97 Toby made the word "Proceed" ominous forever
@@paulstelian97 hehe. shivers
The section that starts at 7:32 is the leitmotif of Undyne's (the titular true hero) girlfriend and it then becomes Asgore's (her boss) leitmotif. It represents what drives her to keep going
i dont hear alphys theme here tho
dang, I never ever thought about video games ost like that
I kinda understand that some themes can "represent" a character's personnality (or something like that), but incorporing some of the story elements in the music thanks to accords ...
We really have to show big respect for all of these people that makes games X)
2:37 I mean the whole theme of the fight is Undyne stopping a child from performing a mass extinction event, so that would make sense
3:04 yea like I said above, Undyne is pretty much the first of two real actual BOSSES in the Genocide/No Mercy/Annihilation Route, which by this point the player has killed of 3 of 5 areas to the point until all those who failed to evacuate have been killed.
Oh no, he’s got into the Undertale. This will be your channel for the next year
edit: and I can’t wait 🗿
I mean if you guys like it, I wouldn't mind haha
that is true, and also undertale does really interesting things with its music
@@DaviVasc The best way to experience the emotions behind the music is to play the game.
I'd love that. The OST is beautiful.
6:39 when he's explaining the two happy and sad chords clashing it could be in reference to the actual fight OR, what I think is more the case, it's in reference to your characters void of emotion in this genocide run. They kill for completionist, they don't kill for joy or for depression related issues, your character is a monster, you murdered so many innocent creatures and other friends, this isn't your time to shine you are the monster. That's just what I think imo, still a cool game and a really good song.
For context, you're playing as a bad guy when you fight this boss with this theme, so the song is melancholic as the boss is pulling herself together, in defiance of death, to try and kill you before you cause more harm.
3:40
nailed it in one. For having not played the game, that is a spot-on analysis of the situation
this is one of those tracks where you can TELL what the composer was inspired by, the horns are very touhou
Nothing can beat zunpets!
it's literally the touhou soundfont lol
ZUN himself said undyne is his favorite character and she has his favorite ost's in the game cause of the Zunpets involved lol
東方のBGMの考察動画に驚き見に来ました。言い表せない感情を的確に表現する技術に感動しています。
7:28 日本で作られた動画のなかで、ここから流れる静かな部分に「なぜあの時私を助けたの」という歌詞がつけられた事がありました。「あの時」というのはアンダインに水を飲ませてあげるシーンの事です。プレイヤーは知っている、でもアンダインは知らないはず。シンプルな歌詞ですが、それを聞いてから思わず攻撃する事ができなくなり、涙を流してしまいました。
日本語しかできないので上手く伝わるかはわかりませんが、UNDERTALEファンの皆様にも伝えたくてコメントしました。音楽を通して海外の方と交流できた気がしてとても嬉しく思います。
Its crazy how much of what he talks about goes perfectly with Undyne's character and the context of the fight, the most loyal guard on the brink of death staying alive through sheer determination to kill the player to stop them from slaughtering every single monster in the underground. Toby's music is unmatched.
3:34 In Genocide Run, where Battle Against a True Hero is played during Undyne the Undying's battle, Chara is the evil one and not only Undyne is also the hero, every monster in the underground is heroic because they wanted to end Chara's killing spree and they wanted to kill Chara to end this for good. I don't really see the main protagonist, Frisk, a good character in Genocide Run since, It does not make sense that Frisk could be like a good character because Chara took over Frisk completely. Especially in the end of Genocide Run where Chara wants Frisk to end the world or something like that. I think there might be a True Genocide Run fanmake soon idk, I have some lore in Genocide Run and whether or not Chara is a good or bad character, It's very hard to choose if the monsters are on the good or evil side, but It makes sense that Chara is evil and the bad one because she was the one who started the whole genocide spree.
I personally don't think Chara is evil due to the fact the player is the one in control killing every one.
the person I think is to blame is the player due to the fact YOU are in control.
I mean The game did say you choose your ending.
And Chara is the one that's like, " hey! you avenged... Nice..."
You were given warnings and notes to stop .
someone correct me if I'm wrong it's been a while since I've seen undertale
@@yourbestfriend4861 Yeah your right, we blame chara without even thinking about what we are doing
8:50 that made my head explode lol I've played both Undertale (this is my favorite track from it!) and both Pokémon B/W and B2/W2 way too many times to count and I never noticed that, it's awesome to learn something new about some of my favorite games ^^
9:19
Toby Fox was a Chrono Trigger fan, or at least he used the Chrono Trigger soundfont in his music so i wouldn't be surprised
This theme is basically an anime battle, the start is Undyne (that's her name) raising to be the true hero of the story (it has a short introducción theme called "but the Earth refused to die", that is about Undyne collecting his thoughs and gathering the courage and "determination" to defeat you), then she goes all out to stop you, there the so action focus rythm.
The conflicting feelings you notice there are in the character, it feels heroic, happy, but kinda sad at the same time; Undyne is happy to be fighting all out agaisnt a villain like you (she is a hero after all) and the game puts all that hope of stopping you in the theme; but then is sad cause it should have never come to this.
The soft intermision I like to think is Undyne realising that she cannot stop you, that she is melting; monsters melt when they use determination (which is basically the strongest kind of magic in this game, since the magic in this world is tied to feelings) cause their body is put to an anormous amount of presure; she is breaking and she knows he is not going to come out of this battle. Then she nods his head and keeps fighting you anyways, cause she is indeed, the true hero, she will never give up. And so the song keeps going knowing full well she cannot win, but she is going to try with everything she has anyways.
Once again is conflicted cause she is dying but for her there is no better way to die that in an all out battle agianst a true evil.
For me the intermission sounds like a flashback where she remembers everything she fights for: for the hopes and dreams of all monsters, to avenge all the fallen monsters and to protect the life of the all other monsters from you.
It's so unusual how, when someone explains music and the undertones slash emotions to music, you start to hear it every where(the first time this happened to me was Ace Attorney/Apollo Justice, during the Smuggler/Concert Trial learning how to hear shifts and sudden changes to music), and in a weird way, but I can't think of another way to explain it; "Learn the emotions of music." Or I guess the emotions baked into the music.
Like when I listen to Psychonauts music, specifically Gloria's Theatre or PSI King's... entire level. You can really begin to get even deeper understandings
In this battle, You are the villain.
4:43 i think that motif was originally from Ruins (the area theme for, well, the Ruins, where Toriel secludes herself). it was modified a bit when put in Battle Against a True Hero.
the same motif is also used in Undyne-related tracks such as Waterfall, Quiet Water (both are the area themes of Waterfall, where Undyne lives. both are very calming), NGAHHH, and Spear of Justice (which are both Undyne's themes in a non-genocide route. very upbeat and happier-sounding compared to BAaTH)
but most importantly, the motif was used in Don't Give Up, where the player is being encouraged by the game characters to stay determined and fight back against Flowey in the True Pacifist run, even though Flowey almost has the power of a god and can end the world if they wanted to.
in BAaTH, Undyne is likewise trying to fight against an evil force by staying determined, despite knowing that she won't live for much longer even if she wins the fight. she knows that she's one of the last things standing between you and the end of the world, so she doesn't give up and does what she can to save the world.
11:47 : well, it isn't a bad thing that someone stops you from desyroying the whole world, but it isn't good that you want to desyroy it at the first time
by the way, this video shows well half of why this song is my favorite, the other half being the lore to it
As a fan of your channel that got here from the Bloodborne soundtrack reactions, you've just open a floodgate of views by covering Undertale lol. Excited to see more from you, keep it up!
First was Monster Hunter, then Souls, then Hollow Knight, now Undertale. We're conquering the world one fandom at a time.
Bloodborne got me to remember your channel, but hollow knight got me to subscribe. Seeing Undertale show up now, seems like it was the right idea.
Yep, never heard of him before until I got recommended his video breaking down Asgore's theme. This is my second video I've seen and "Battle Against a True Hero" is my absolute favorite song in the entire Undertale soundtrack. He's got a subscriber out of me.
9:48 that was very smooth metric modulation actually, I never realised that was happening until now
8:56 this in particular is awesome !!! wow i think you may be the onlyyy person who has eVERRRR mentioned that
I think I know why I like these videos now; I love video game music and you explain WHY I love it. I can never quite describe the feelings, but when you go through the chords and leitmotifs I always feel like "YES! YES! That what I am feeling!"
I feel like the word I want to reach for with this song is "bittersweet." Narratively, on the evil route a character named Undyne undergoes a transformation and becomes the most glorious and ferocious version of herself in order to oppose the player and end their massacre. It's really compelling to see that she was always capable of that, but tragic to consider the circumstances that brought her to this point.
4:40 I don't think this particular melody shows up anywhere else in the game, but it DOES have the same notes as the song that plays when you battle this same character in the other routes, just in a different order :D
I thought that was a segment of the waterfall theme
@@beywheelzhater8930 ,,, oh my god the waterfall theme also has the same notes
YEAH it's more similar to the waterfall theme you're right! I was testing how these melodies work on a piano and you can pretty seamlessly just jump between them :D It does make sense considering that both the Undyne battles take place in the waterfall region
It's the motif found in "an ending"
@@mr.monkey354 Isn't an ending just an alternative version of waterfall or quiet water?
@@Northflowo waterfall is also itself an alternate ruins
You made me realise that I love watching passionate people. It makes me so happy to see other people happy I can't even explain it.
7:46 zunpet works! now you can check any touhou song, try Entrusting This World to Idols ~ Idolatrize World
3:27 well in this game you can be the good guy or the bad guy, but when you "Battle against at a true hero" its when youre doing the bad route(Genocide route)
"I've never played Undertale"
You shouldn't have said that. I pray your inbox can handle the influx.
I'm used to it because of the Hollow Knight people haha. I don't mind though. They're right, I should play both.
@@DaviVasc Of the two I'd say Undertale is the more relaxing, casual one. Having played both I can say there were times Hollow Knight had me quite frustrated. Undertale has a sequel in the works called Deltarune if you still have a taste for Toby Fox's works after the Patrons squeeze all of Undertale's OST out of you.
Just in case you still read comments here, you were correct in your guess that many melodies like the one at 3:47 are not unique to the song. It's the melody introduced in the song "An Ending" which is when the player went through neither the good or evil path, and the game tries its best to encourage them to explore it further. It's also the main melody of "Don't Give Up" from near the end of the good route, where the friends you've made along the way encourage you to battle the final boss when the situation seems dire.
Being inspired to analyze further, the melody is IMO quite clearly used here from the perspective of our opponent: She has a lot of people who she's fighting for, and she must not give up, and instead has to press on.
no its the ruins song sorry im late 1 year lmfao
@@r1cknasty567 Please do point out where exactly in the Ruins song that specific variation of the melody plays.
@@Zakruits pretty much the first part of the main melody - that ‘D# G# B G#’ after the right hand’s mordent(? not sure if im using the correct term) within the first 10 seconds of the theme. here it’s transposed downward to ‘C F Ab F’. this leitmotif is actually present in waterfall as well - when the piano comes in to play ‘B E G E’ and is also part of Undyne’s Neutral/Pacifist theme as well as that same ruins ‘D# G# B G#’ in her calmer section which is also transposed down a semitone to ‘D G Bb G’ in that same piece. i cant remember if the leitmotif is also present in the neutral route ending off the top of my head tho so i think you could both be right
@@hatepineapples Ok, SO.
While the melody does have much in common with the Ruins melody, they are two distinct variations with different meanings. For clarity I'm referring to the melody introduced in "An Ending" at around the one minute mark.
To preface, yes, you can actually hear the Ruins melody in Spear of Justice. Listen closely and you'll hear every note, maybe changed slightly to fit the chord progression, and with the final notes leading into the repeat.
In BAaTH though, you can't hear the same 1:1 equivalence. On the other hand, every note in this melody maps to "An Ending". Not the other way, though, as the bit going down after the 7th note is omitted, I assume in "An Ending" it's mainly there to fill space.
The latter half is the most obvious and incriminating part though, being the exact same notes (very few, in contrast to Ruins) alternating between an ambiguous and an empowering variant.
In short: bro if you listen to all the music in question you'll hear the distinction, but it's alright, at least I got another excuse to listen to Undertale tracks way too closely :P
yes, many fragments of melodie’s are from many ideas established in the music in the first hour of the game, it’s remarkable how they can be molded in different contexts
dang i got a lot to say, also this song references the main area theme from the beginning of the game called ruins, and the waterfall track that plays in the area where she lives (they have the same melody) and has a bit of her canonical gfs theme in that sudden piano section. also the main theme at the start of the song is referenced in both another song in this game (the next one in the ost actually) and a song in deltarune as an allusion to this character. it’s kinda crazy
This Video that TH-cam randomly recommended me, just gave me a nostalgic feeling after hearing "Battle against a true Hero". Probely beccause i didnt watched deeply into undertale like 2 years ago.
This is one of my favorite tracks of the game. Undyne who is the character associated with this track is really a hero facing a terrible enemy, which is in the bad or evil route of the game, and so it is melancholic. To truly understand the weight behind it you have to experience that particular route of the game. You can almost feel the determination of a hero in the music coming at you like a thousand spears to your face lol. I love how this track connects to the narrative of the bad route. I also love how it relates to some other tracks in the game. Really looking forward to what musical connection it will have in the upcoming deltarune chapters as well.
And if you finished a Neutral run, especially one where Undyne takes over, you'll recognize An Ending in this song as the collective will of the Underground, granting Undyne the power to oppose you. Remember her pre-battle speech
Honestly, the music conveys a lot of what she stands for, but her dialogue gives so much more meaning to that title.
She is fighting for the entire world, she realizes you won’t stop at killing monsters. She is the true hero of both worlds. No matter how much the human world abused the monsters’ world, she will protect and fight for both of them.
Yasunori Mitsuda definitely deserves to be in the long line of greatest composers of all time. His work has inspired so many others.
Yup. He's also a guest composer in a few indie games.
Hearing this in music-y terms is so enlightening! The true hero is your opponent here, and I feel like there's always more "sad chords" toward the end of a phrase, and more at the end of the song, meaning it starts out heroic, the opponent comes at you fired up and ready to win, but towards the end not only does the fact the song lasted long mean you're closer to winning - a central theme of the game is your determination. You WILL win. This song knows how the story ends. Undyne comes out heroic and strong, but you WILL beat her, and that is sad. Happy notes to sad notes. Thank you for this analysis!
Your channel really is super underrated. Like the analysis and the explaination on what the notes mean adds a lot to the reaction and analysis and makes watching your vids a lot more enjoyable imo.
Everything aside whenever he says “😮🫢 Woah!!” It’s kinda adorable haha
I think you should hear these too:
-Torial Theme
-Asgore Theme
-Hopes and Dreams
-Megalovania (this one is different )
Those are some of Undertale’s music that I recommend, but there are more.
Death by glamour is my favorite track from the game
It's raining somewhere else IS GOATED pun mildly intended
@@Bugretti goated with the sauce? mayhaps even... busting it down sexual style?
One of my favorite track beside Bergentrückung. I love how it starts out as soft with a piano melody. The song is like a sour but sweet fruit, what you are doing in the game when this plays is an evil path and shouldn't be done but the song has a hopeful, heroic emotion. It has the feelinz that there is still chance for the monsters to be saved. Then going back into the piano melody as if the hope is lost, has a sad tune but then when all hope is lost it goes back into the hopeful heroic theme. It sets the difficulty and the theme of the battle. In my opinion it's one of the hardest fights in the game and the song sets the base for it. It's lost but hopeful at the same time. I just love it! It's so good.
Also I didn't even mention the lines that is written out during the fight. It's just... beautiful
My absolute favorite track from this game, I even learned to play it on guitar
Awesome
Ngaahhh! I always cry because of Toby's music! It's been years and it still gets the tears rolling more often than not.
That leitmotif that you pointed out does actually show up ALOT in the game, I think we mostly attribute it to the character in which this theme is for, but it plays in some of the overworld themes (like the ruins, waterfall, quiet water) and even the ending of the neutral and pacifist routes.
I can see the genius behind the chords. Undynes passion and determination to protect the underground reflected in the happy half of the chord, where as the genocide players saddness as they destroy the friend they made seen in the minor half of the chord. Meanwhile achieving the dissonance of the chord as a whole, almost as if from a horror movie, to show charas influence. Impressive as usual.
3:40 this song plays exclusively on what is known as the “Genocide Route” of Undertale. It’s a variation of the boss theme for Undyne, who transforms into the boss that uses this song upon dying.
The song itself has much more in common with An Ending (and of course Don't Give Up!) than with SoJ. It's the musical representation of the monster's collective will, like we see in An Ending. Wether to reach for freedom, support a friend, or take revenge for a massacre, this theme's there. And Undyne hears it, as the collective heartbeat lf the underground screaming for your demise. Very cool imo
I’ve heard this tracks feeling described as “knowing you must do the wrong thing to get what you want and choosing to do it anyways” and that spoke to me. Hearing someone break it down with more musical knowledge is cool, thank you.
Amazing video, as always! I’ve never played Undertale, but its music has already captured my heart, it could be because of Mitsuda Lick! This piece sounds heroic and yet fragile. I feel like kind of tragic but brave resolution from it. It makes me feel like I’m burning out with impatience. I got so emotional. I should definitely play the game! Thanks to your channel, l can get to know amazing game music like this, Davi. It’s a really great thing!
We should definitely play it someday, Aya! Everybody praises this game to no end, even Masahiro Sakurai himself!
"Heroic yet fragile" is a great description. It encapsulates the fight and character in ways you wouldn't expect
If you do play the game be careful with spoilers! And have fun! It’s a fun and emotional ride
@@DaviVasc can you react to both heartache and Asgore they are both very kool.
@@elver2218 your wish is granted
11:34 that's the Royal Road Chord Progression.
A very welcome surprise.
Learning more about one of my favorite osts ever made so many years later is awesome.
4:30 the "don't give up" leimotif.
The way I like to think about this song is that, in the beginning of the song (in the 4/4 part), it seems like pure rage and search for vengeance on Undyne’s part (the true hero you’re fighting). You just killed all her friends, and all she has in sight is killing you. But once the 3/4 part hits, it seems more lonely and emotional, as you said, showing her grief. Once the harmonies kick in, she remembers she’s fighting for something, and it’s no longer pure rage. She feels the impact the loss of her friends is having on her, and she is now looking for justice, not vengeance. This is the reason why this song is my favorite in the soundtrack, because it displays Undyne’s grief as raw as possible.
Tldr; Toby Fox is a HELLA amazing composer
The things you pick up on without even playing the game is crazy. I always love seeing people react to these songs for the first time, but your reactions and sense of meaning are a lot more profound than others. Earned my subscription 👍
That motif you brought up about halfway through is what I like the Don't Give Up Lietmotif. It appears in many songs, Ruins, Quiet Water, NGAHHH!!, Spear of Justice, An Ending, Don't Give Up, Respite, Bring It In Guys!, and of course this song. It basically symbolizes a sense of hope. There are two version of said lietmotif, one with many notes removed and one with the full set of notes, although I do not know if there is a reason for this or if that really means much of anything. Battle Against A True Hero uses a version with many notes removed. Many songs in the game using that lietmotif are ones meant for a character named Undyne, who believes she is the true hero and humans are the true villains. In Battle Against A True Hero the player has made that world view a reality, killing everyone they come across, including Undyne's best friend. She take a hit protecting a child from you and said attack normally would've killed her then and all then through some more complex lore reasons she manages to survive and gain a bit of a power boost, the fight begins and this song plays. You're truly fighting a real hero, and you are the true villain. She puts up one heck of a fight but despite Undyne's best efforts it is in the end impossible for her to win. The player is never truly defeated, whenever they die they can just come back and try again. Eventually they will win, and in her final moments, Undyne still has not lost hope. Giving a speech of how she was prepared for things to go this way, that if things go as planned, you won't be able to harm another life, and that this world will live on.
Hearing this song again sent chills down my spine. I love how you point out the positive aspects of the song- happy chords, melody lines with positive connotations, that kind of thing- because I feel like that's part of what makes this song so special! It's not just a battle theme, it is the essence of what Undyne is, and these positive, more tender moments aren't meant for you. She's thinking of the people she loves and the ramifications of her failure, and even if there wasn't a lick of dialogue, the music makes it so, so clear. You aren't a person anymore, you're just a monster who needs to be stopped.
Thank you for treating this song with such care! Your ability to understand it without even playing the game is really cool, and your knowledge of music theory really helped me to see even more detail in a song I've already analyzed to hell and back
Seeing the ending having the same amount of sad and happy chords really shows how Undyne even when losing was still filled with the Determination to stay and fight.
To put it simply, this song is the theme of undyne finally having the moment she's been created for. In this route, you as the main character are the interloper. The attacker. The virus in her well maintained body of a home. Unlike in the neutral route(s) there is no ambiguity of your intention. You are here to kill. Undyne has spent her ENTIRE LIFE training for this exact moment. You are the monster, and finally, it is her time to be the hero she was meant to be. And so she charges in, channeling a power unique to only 3 characters. Her, flowey, and you. Determination. She's literally to angry to die in this instance. She throws every single technique and strategy she has at you, spear and fist and magic alike. She puts EVERYTHING she has into every motion. Every swing, every dodge, every small adjustment of her position. She still finds herself on the back foot somehow, this evil little thing wearing the face of a child picking everything apart. Then she sees it, an opening. One so blatant she doesn't know how she didn't think about it before. She let's you get closer, then suddenly charges, pinning you through the shoulder with her spear and rushing further with you. She slams you into a wall, dropping her spear, grabbing your collar and just starting to beat you. This is for everyone in the waterfall. This is for all the town of Snowden. This is for everyone else you've hurt. This is for papyrus. In the very peak of her rage she cocks her fist back one more time and looks at the bruised and batted face of yours with disgust, seeing exactly that mirrored in your eyes. Then you shove the knive she never managed to get you to drop directly into her neck. And the hero fails. In a sudden instant, the day she's trained for her entire life ends in failure. She has but a few seconds left to process the reality of what will become of her people now that the one person who was supposed to stop you couldn't. That is the tragedy in this. You are battling against a true hero. And the true hero loses.
WELP TIME TO THEORY RANT FOR A BIT
It's interesting how Toby Fox makes the illusion of "ambiguous chords" by not playing full chords at all, but rather several melodies that sound good together. At 5:07 , the melody is ear-catching because he's doing that thing composers do in minor keys where they take the major sixth, then bring it a whole step up to the major seventh, and one more whole step up to the parallel major. Battle Against a True Hero is in F minor; Toby took C# major(sixth), brought it to D# major(seventh), then to F MAJOR, not back to F minor.
But the only thing is, Toby didn't put in just those chords. The main melody is a sustained D# note while another melody goes from G# to G (D# and G# are both in C# major, both G and obviously D# are in D# major), then had the main melody finish on a C note while the other melody finishes on A (C and A are 2/3 of the F major triad).
Pretty much EVERY TIME a song is in a minor key, going to the parallel major will get your attention.
Battle Against a True Hero is one of the few songs that gives me chills because of how aware the game is. There's a lot of discussion about timelines in this game, which, ofc, gets glossed over by everything else, but is still there.
To me, the bitter undertones of this song is the game being aware that this timeline should not exist, but it does. You know those moments you sometimes get, not everyone gets them, but I know some of y'all do, those thoughts that make you stop and think for a moment? The ones where, somewhere out there, in another universe, the very opposite is happening to you right now? Whether it'd be bad or good, you can't help but wonder if timelines actually exist? Yeah, that's what the game's doing except it *knows* timelines exist and this one shouldn't be existing right now. You'd be in another universe sparing everyone, but you're killing them instead.
Stuff like that gives me the creeps.
Track/instrument choice is also very Touhou AF. Two other boss tracks do similar, and they also riff on eachother with callbacks and call-forwards. Great stuff.
OK, I'm cheating because I played the game, but I do not think of this tempo change you reference at 10:00 as "positive," per se. "Positive" is an OK word to use, and I get why you're using it (to explain to people who don't know much music theory), but I think it's more of a "sentimental" or a melancholy sort of remembrance. So I think you're dead on, but I just wanted to point out some nuance. Game is full of that sentimental melancholy, after-all--bitter-sweet, not "positive," exactly.
Also, this is not in the spirit of how you were analyzing the music, but I just wanted to say that I absolutely love the bass line in this and a lot of Toby Fox's music. It slaps.
Two things I really appreciate about this video, although one of them is more your general style that I've noticed. I'm still going to mention it because it's good.
First: you going into detail about why you call things happy or sad chords. If you've explained it before, I missed that video, so it's nice to get it clarified.
Second: The fact that this video is twice as long as the actual track because you stop to elaborate on why something is good or how it works. Your experience with music takes your videos from a general reaction to an actual breakdown. It's always nice to see.