Some people have mentioned that he has a piece of equipment that is too expensive. You needn't buy an expensive piece of equipment to do this test. The Tiny SA (spectrum analyzer abt $50-$60 ) will do it. Don't forget the attenuator. I don't know if it's a valid test to just use the optional telescopic antenna that comes with the Tiny SA.
You can even go cheaper and use a 30$ rtl-sdr dongle. You’ll need about 60dB of attenuation for a direct wired test. Be sure to turn the gain down to 0 and disable AGC in the settings.
@@briansauk6837 these cheap RTL sdr dongles from china is far from liniear acroos the span, so everything is relative at one freq (carrier) vs the next (harmonic).. You can in some programs calibrate them if you have the right tools that can create & match a given lookup table at different spans. got quite a few "el cheapo spectrum explore/analuzers *TinySa (40US) *TinySA Ultra (130 US) *6.6Ghz PC spectrum A. (100 US) based around the synth chip MAX28070 *4.4Ghz PC spectrum (20US) based around the synth chip ADF4351 *HackRF H2+ with Portapack (150 US) The tool I like the most is the HackRF, so extremely diversed ex. 24Mhz to 6.5Ghz sweep th-cam.com/video/kPtJJNhWNtQ/w-d-xo.html the 6.6Ghz PC spectrum is this one, and uses MAX2870 synthchip and is quite a few years old th-cam.com/video/k77JNk-nQgk/w-d-xo.html
@@briansauk6837 Don't use an SDR as a spectrum analyzer. It's fraught with issues. It's like using pliers for a job that a wrench is better suited for. Sure, you can use it, but you're going to cause problems. As for using an SDR as a spectrum analyzer, you're going to get really inaccurate readings.
The Baofeng GT-5R, at least the two that I own, meet the compliance test with flying colours! I tested the pair, and additionally had the ARRL test them at the Dayton (held in Xenia, Ohio ) Hamfest this year. It's the same price at the UV-5R, and it's a puzzlement to me that more people don't know about them! 73 DE W8LV BILL
I think it's because the GT-5R is actually FCC type approved, meaning it doesn't transmit outside the ham bands. Folks seem to want to buy UV-5R radios because they can splatter, I mean transmit, outside the ham bands.
Hi Hayden, great video. I had my Quansheng checked at out last club meeting, and got similar results on VHF, if not a little better. On UHF the second harmonic was 50db down on the fundamental. I didn't take my Beofeng, might see if I can line up the club member with the spec-an. I agree the debate will rage on for eons. I have modified the base charger on my Quansheng, I wasn't happy with the wiring or the 240Vac power layout, converted it to use a 12V plug pack, I reverse engineered the charger unit, if you want a copy. Tom VK3DMK
"Some People" will still fight to the death for the Baofeng UV-5R 😂... but for me, it's the QuanSheng FTW.... even with its crappy airband, so much more to offer than the Boofwang. Thnx Hayden.🙏
Works for me. I bought the QS based on your review. I like the USB-C and wide-band Rx. I’ll just be using it travelling back roads on Vancouver Island and am not too worried about harmonics! But wide-band Tx could be useful.
The HP E8285A can be bought from Amtronix for $850., Including NIST traceable calibration and warranty, the price is less than a typical desktop HF radio (new), which many hams would buy. And you said "almost nobody can afford", so you might want to tell what country you live in, I guess in some countries the standard of living is low so these things are not easy. But still, you shouldn't say it for the global audience here.
@@nine7295no matter what country you live in… $850 USD or other currency equivalent is a huge amount of money. Sure, I’m sure it’s worth it but that’s not the amount of money the average American or British or Korean or French has lying around. I looked it up, by the way. Desktop Shortwave radios range between around $250 and $1200 and the majority of users won’t be going for the extremely feature packed models.
so the second harmonic is -50dbm down. (carrier at +35dbm vs - 15.5dbm) on the Quansheng on second test, it would have been nice to have their wattage representated in GMRS regi on the carrier signal on the Baofeng.. so it atleast is apples to apples what wattage their can manage at that band... weird that you dont wanna show that on the Baofeng, as it would paint the result if one is 5watt at that range and the other is 2watt..
Thank you for your content, you have convinced me to work on getting my HAM licence in Australia. I recently got my aviation radio licence for work so i can transmit on airband and am looking to try and get a cheapish handheld for myself, do you have any recommendations? Thanking you kindly wise one🙏
Hi mate, depending on how much you'd like to spend you could probably pickup a cheap Yaesu on VK Classifieds used - www.vkclassifieds.net.au/ Just keep an eye out. Otherwise take a look at some of the other videos on my channel, there are several cheaper HT's that may suit your purposes.
@@HamRadioDX thanks mate I've watched a fair few of your videos but I'll have to watch some more to find your reviews of them 😜 I will also keep an eye out on the classifieds✌️
Its also a legal responsibility of the vendor of equipment to ensure it gains regulatory approval before it can be legally sold. Offshore vendors who sell direct rather than through a local imported bypass this step.
Keep in mind there are different variations of baofengs, even within a specific "model number". I have Btech baofengs that are FCC certified... Mine are UV-82c's... but I'm pretty sure they also used to carry UV-5R's.
It was my understanding to place a suitable highpass filter at the RF input of the spectrum analyzer to decrease its harmonic distortion but I'm yet to see anyone on YT use one? Also see In RF standards testing, harmonics are measured via not just a power attenuator but after this a high pass filter, designed to reduce the fundamental. Otherwise you may just be measuring the harmonic performance of the spectrum analyser front end and not the transmitter.
Unless overloaded, (which is why he used an attenuator,) the harmonic distortion of Hayden's spectrum analyser will be orders of magnitude lower than the transmitters he has tested and can therefore be ignored.
You evaluated harmonic levels, but missed non-harmonic spurs. All kinds of garbage is possibly leaking out of local oscillators, unwanted mixing products etc. Try capturing a sweep over the whole frequency range of the analyzer. This may take a while at narrow RBW . You may be surprised at how poorly the rx spurious responses are too. Set your test set to 0dBm at rx input and sweep the whole range while listening to each band.
I didn't miss anything. I omitted it. I conducted that test separately and neither radio had any spurs outside of the harmonics, at least on TX. I didn't test receive.
That would depend on the maximum input of your SDR. I think if you got a 40dB attenuator that can handle at least 5W continuous that should do it, that would make the power into the SDR still rather strong at -3dB. But best to check the max input power to be sure
You tested the Baofeng on a next to dead battery. Test it again with a full charge and solid battery. The PA was likely running on low/sagging voltage. Not that it's ok that it doesn't pass on the full range of battery from full to dead. But do the test. Also compare high and low power. Cheers.
Hi any chance you can list the spurious results of the UV5R- Quansheng-Talkpod and other radios you gave tested/reviewed to give an indication of purity in effect which is worst to best etc.tks 73.
You just can't put lipstick on a pig. Believe it or not, the UV6R is clean. I'll do a vid on it tomorrow (I did one like a year ago, but this topic is getting a lot of traction. Good job, mate!
Cheers mate! Some of these units (like the ones on eBay and Amazon) are a bit dirty. The GT5R - although I don't have one is supposedly clean. Keen to see your video - do it outside in the nice sun!
@iowahank On the video that Shane - This Side of the Radio did with TheSmokinApe, Professor Ape seemed to say that the FCC rules concerning the harmonics on VHF end on frequencies lower than UHF, hence they do not apply to UHF.
The radio clearly is not compliant. I wonder if the rules consider the radio AND the provided antenna as a combined unit. If so, the antenna may provide enough attenuation at the 2nd harmonic to satisfy the rules. (Personally, I think this would be very bad practice legally as we all know that many will not be using the provided antenna.) 73
Test is done into a 50R load, not an antenna. Any radio sold direct by offshore manufacturer rather than a local imported is unlikely to have been tested for spurious emission compliance which is more than harmonic levels.
The rules say that the spurious emissions must be below the required levels at the antenna transmission feedline. Therefore even if the antenna did, then it wouldn't satisfy the rule. Even a filter on the antenna jack may not. I don't write the rules though.
As much as they complain about harmonics etc they wont do anything as is and especially when ya tx into a antenna it knocks down the harmonics the rest of the way down on most antennas people use😉
Yep, have a look at the spectrum display when it is on it's stock antenna (or any antennas you want to test) vs a true resistive 50 ohm load. That's not the way it's supposed to work but you should see less harmonics on the air if the antenna is not radiating them efficiently. This also causes extra heat back in the amplifier chip, but 20mW (-20dBm) is not much in terms of overheating the radio.
Amateur radios do not have to be FCC type accepted since Amateurs may even use a home built radio. However the Baofeng UV-5G the GMRS version is type accepted.
Worse: There is a reason why some radios are offered for sale directly from an offshore manufacturer rather than a US source that has to ensure FCC compliance to sell legally. Direct sale from offshore ensures that compliance testing has not been carried out.
Both of these radios are purchase primarily for their receive abilities. For Tx a 30 dollar radio is going to be shit. As a handy talkie at the lake in their intended band they are still shit but 30 dollars.
Hi all, not an owner nor a ham. Interested to know if anyone has attempted to add or modify the filtering on any of these radios to make them cleaner ?
THIS is why I run a 2 meter bandpass filter on my beaofang ARPS igate/digipeater. It's a MUST to be compliant and who is responsible for our spectral purity? We are.
@@HamRadioDX On cheap radios like this I'd expect the power amplifier to behave differently on full battery voltage vs. the end of it's lower range. And in most cases, better. But the test will need to be made in order to know.
![Mod Your Quansheng UV-K5 - EASY! [Make it Even Better]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3zXH__BRPM/mqdefault.jpg)
![HIWWHEE | OHM [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OJJLtTLqLag/mqdefault.jpg)
Some people have mentioned that he has a piece of equipment that is too expensive. You needn't buy an expensive piece of equipment to do this test. The Tiny SA (spectrum analyzer abt $50-$60 ) will do it.
Don't forget the attenuator.
I don't know if it's a valid test to just use the optional telescopic antenna that comes with the Tiny SA.
no it aint, will to an extent be shifted by the antennas resonate ablelity at different spans.
You can even go cheaper and use a 30$ rtl-sdr dongle. You’ll need about 60dB of attenuation for a direct wired test. Be sure to turn the gain down to 0 and disable AGC in the settings.
@@briansauk6837 these cheap RTL sdr dongles from china is far from liniear acroos the span, so everything is relative at one freq (carrier) vs the next (harmonic)..
You can in some programs calibrate them if you have the right tools that can create & match a given lookup table at different spans.
got quite a few "el cheapo spectrum explore/analuzers
*TinySa (40US)
*TinySA Ultra (130 US)
*6.6Ghz PC spectrum A. (100 US) based around the synth chip MAX28070
*4.4Ghz PC spectrum (20US)
based around the synth chip ADF4351
*HackRF H2+ with Portapack (150 US)
The tool I like the most is the HackRF, so extremely diversed ex. 24Mhz to 6.5Ghz sweep th-cam.com/video/kPtJJNhWNtQ/w-d-xo.html
the 6.6Ghz PC spectrum is this one, and uses MAX2870 synthchip and is quite a few years old th-cam.com/video/k77JNk-nQgk/w-d-xo.html
You can copy his exact setup except swap the meter for the Tiny SA and you will see the exact same results (maybe less accurate but good enough)
@@briansauk6837 Don't use an SDR as a spectrum analyzer. It's fraught with issues. It's like using pliers for a job that a wrench is better suited for. Sure, you can use it, but you're going to cause problems. As for using an SDR as a spectrum analyzer, you're going to get really inaccurate readings.
The Baofeng GT-5R, at least the two that I own, meet the compliance test with flying colours! I tested the pair, and additionally had the ARRL test them at the Dayton (held in Xenia, Ohio ) Hamfest this year. It's the same price at the UV-5R, and it's a puzzlement to me that more people don't know about them! 73 DE W8LV BILL
I think it's because the GT-5R is actually FCC type approved, meaning it doesn't transmit outside the ham bands. Folks seem to want to buy UV-5R radios because they can splatter, I mean transmit, outside the ham bands.
I used to be a Baofeng fan boy, but ever since I got the Quansheng. I will never need another Baofeng ever again.
Same here dude. Same here. I only wish Quansheng could transmit with 10W. Only downgrade compared go my previous main Baofeng UV13 Pro V2
Hi Hayden, great video.
I had my Quansheng checked at out last club meeting, and got similar results on VHF, if not a little better.
On UHF the second harmonic was 50db down on the fundamental.
I didn't take my Beofeng, might see if I can line up the club member with the spec-an.
I agree the debate will rage on for eons.
I have modified the base charger on my Quansheng, I wasn't happy with the wiring or the 240Vac power layout, converted it to use a 12V plug pack, I reverse engineered the charger unit, if you want a copy.
Tom VK3DMK
"Some People" will still fight to the death for the Baofeng UV-5R 😂... but for me, it's the QuanSheng FTW.... even with its crappy airband, so much more to offer than the Boofwang. Thnx Hayden.🙏
Boofwang 😂 love it
You can change firmware in Quansheng to fix that. 1of11 has very good fix for that.
Better to have a crappy airband system than not have one at all, specially for the same price range
Works for me. I bought the QS based on your review. I like the USB-C and wide-band Rx. I’ll just be using it travelling back roads on Vancouver Island and am not too worried about harmonics! But wide-band Tx could be useful.
"Test EVERY Radio Owner MUST Do"
Google TinySA
The HP E8285A can be bought from Amtronix for $850., Including NIST traceable calibration and warranty, the price is less than a typical desktop HF radio (new), which many hams would buy. And you said "almost nobody can afford", so you might want to tell what country you live in, I guess in some countries the standard of living is low so these things are not easy. But still, you shouldn't say it for the global audience here.
@@nine7295Majority of today's radio users use handhelds.
@@nine7295no matter what country you live in… $850 USD or other currency equivalent is a huge amount of money. Sure, I’m sure it’s worth it but that’s not the amount of money the average American or British or Korean or French has lying around.
I looked it up, by the way. Desktop Shortwave radios range between around $250 and $1200 and the majority of users won’t be going for the extremely feature packed models.
so the second harmonic is -50dbm down. (carrier at +35dbm vs - 15.5dbm) on the Quansheng
on second test, it would have been nice to have their wattage representated in GMRS regi on the carrier signal on the Baofeng.. so it atleast is apples to apples what wattage their can manage at that band... weird that you dont wanna show that on the Baofeng, as it would paint the result if one is 5watt at that range and the other is 2watt..
Thank you for your content, you have convinced me to work on getting my HAM licence in Australia. I recently got my aviation radio licence for work so i can transmit on airband and am looking to try and get a cheapish handheld for myself, do you have any recommendations? Thanking you kindly wise one🙏
Hi mate, depending on how much you'd like to spend you could probably pickup a cheap Yaesu on VK Classifieds used - www.vkclassifieds.net.au/
Just keep an eye out.
Otherwise take a look at some of the other videos on my channel, there are several cheaper HT's that may suit your purposes.
@@HamRadioDX thanks mate I've watched a fair few of your videos but I'll have to watch some more to find your reviews of them 😜 I will also keep an eye out on the classifieds✌️
I'm sick of 'ham' radios with no VFO knob!!!!!
Thanks Hayden.
I regularly check all of my radios on all bands. It's ongoing maintenance. That verification is part of the responsibility of having a ham license.
Its also a legal responsibility of the vendor of equipment to ensure it gains regulatory approval before it can be legally sold. Offshore vendors who sell direct rather than through a local imported bypass this step.
How do you maintain a radios signal?
Keep in mind there are different variations of baofengs, even within a specific "model number". I have Btech baofengs that are FCC certified... Mine are UV-82c's... but I'm pretty sure they also used to carry UV-5R's.
It was my understanding to place a suitable highpass filter at the RF input of the spectrum analyzer to decrease its harmonic distortion but I'm yet to see anyone on YT use one?
Also see
In RF standards testing, harmonics are measured via not just a power attenuator but after this a high pass filter, designed to reduce the fundamental. Otherwise you may just be measuring the harmonic performance of the spectrum analyser front end and not the transmitter.
Unless overloaded, (which is why he used an attenuator,) the harmonic distortion of Hayden's spectrum analyser will be orders of magnitude lower than the transmitters he has tested and can therefore be ignored.
You will NEVER "settle" the debate, to many drive by experts and Radio "experts:, ya know that.
You evaluated harmonic levels, but missed non-harmonic spurs. All kinds of garbage is possibly leaking out of local oscillators, unwanted mixing products etc.
Try capturing a sweep over the whole frequency range of the analyzer. This may take a while at narrow RBW .
You may be surprised at how poorly the rx spurious responses are too. Set your test set to 0dBm at rx input and sweep the whole range while listening to each band.
I didn't miss anything. I omitted it. I conducted that test separately and neither radio had any spurs outside of the harmonics, at least on TX. I didn't test receive.
@@HamRadioDX Glad you tested that, shame it was omitted from the video.
Can you recommend an attenuator to use if I wanted to do a test like this with an sdr?
That would depend on the maximum input of your SDR. I think if you got a 40dB attenuator that can handle at least 5W continuous that should do it, that would make the power into the SDR still rather strong at -3dB. But best to check the max input power to be sure
UV-5R has been ruled " illegal " here in Switzerland.
Still have mine though.
Thx hayden. I don't have a scope. Interesting results
Thank you.
You tested the Baofeng on a next to dead battery.
Test it again with a full charge and solid battery.
The PA was likely running on low/sagging voltage.
Not that it's ok that it doesn't pass on the full range of battery from full to dead.
But do the test.
Also compare high and low power.
Cheers.
Could be true battery was flashing,
what does the SCREN feature refers to in the extra menu on Quansheng? (menu 57) on/off.?
Good question! Funny abbreviations.
Hi any chance you can list the spurious results of the UV5R- Quansheng-Talkpod and other radios you gave tested/reviewed to give an indication of purity in effect which is worst to best etc.tks 73.
You just can't put lipstick on a pig. Believe it or not, the UV6R is clean. I'll do a vid on it tomorrow (I did one like a year ago, but this topic is getting a lot of traction. Good job, mate!
Cheers mate! Some of these units (like the ones on eBay and Amazon) are a bit dirty. The GT5R - although I don't have one is supposedly clean. Keen to see your video - do it outside in the nice sun!
I like bacon and tomato sauce lipstick!🐷💄😂
Of course you can! She’d be a pretty porker!!
Both seem bad on at least one band :D
So, use the Quansheng only VHF and the Baofeng only on GMRS? If I understood Ape correctly, the same rules do not apply for VHF (at least in the US).
@iowahank On the video that Shane - This Side of the Radio did with TheSmokinApe, Professor Ape seemed to say that the FCC rules concerning the harmonics on VHF end on frequencies lower than UHF, hence they do not apply to UHF.
Would you recommend the Baofeng UV-5R or the Quansheng UV-K58?
The radio clearly is not compliant. I wonder if the rules consider the radio AND the provided antenna as a combined unit. If so, the antenna may provide enough attenuation at the 2nd harmonic to satisfy the rules. (Personally, I think this would be very bad practice legally as we all know that many will not be using the provided antenna.) 73
Test is done into a 50R load, not an antenna. Any radio sold direct by offshore manufacturer rather than a local imported is unlikely to have been tested for spurious emission compliance which is more than harmonic levels.
The rules say that the spurious emissions must be below the required levels at the antenna transmission feedline. Therefore even if the antenna did, then it wouldn't satisfy the rule. Even a filter on the antenna jack may not. I don't write the rules though.
@@HamRadioDX Understood. Thank you.
does the new kid on the block have a more selective front end and rejects noise from around the bands better than the Baofeng?
As much as they complain about harmonics etc they wont do anything as is and especially when ya tx into a antenna it knocks down the harmonics the rest of the way down on most antennas people use😉
Yep, have a look at the spectrum display when it is on it's stock antenna (or any antennas you want to test) vs a true resistive 50 ohm load.
That's not the way it's supposed to work but you should see less harmonics on the air if the antenna is not radiating them efficiently.
This also causes extra heat back in the amplifier chip, but 20mW (-20dBm) is not much in terms of overheating the radio.
Outside of did they hear me and can I hear them I don't understand why I care about this?
I"m sure the BaoFeng's performance wasn't affected by its battery being dead?!?
How is quansheng for air bands?
None of those radios are FCC type accepted in the US. One thing I hate about them is they sound tinny as you need a better speaker.
Amateur radios do not have to be FCC type accepted since Amateurs may even use a home built radio. However the Baofeng UV-5G the GMRS version is type accepted.
So it is just a roll of the dice if a cheap radio has bad harmonics or not.
Worse: There is a reason why some radios are offered for sale directly from an offshore manufacturer rather than a US source that has to ensure FCC compliance to sell legally. Direct sale from offshore ensures that compliance testing has not been carried out.
Both of these radios are purchase primarily for their receive abilities. For Tx a 30 dollar radio is going to be shit. As a handy talkie at the lake in their intended band they are still shit but 30 dollars.
Hi all, not an owner nor a ham. Interested to know if anyone has attempted to add or modify the filtering on any of these radios to make them cleaner ?
THIS is why I run a 2 meter bandpass filter on my beaofang ARPS igate/digipeater. It's a MUST to be compliant and who is responsible for our spectral purity? We are.
I like everything about the quansheng except the receiver. It's terrible- worse than the boafeng.
I still think the Baofeng is crap and dirty. Dirty crap! 😂
your battery was dead on the baofeng lmao
and..
@@HamRadioDX well maybe if the battery was full it was even more bad hahaha
Maybe… and maybe not.
@@HamRadioDX true dont get me wrong i love the baofeng radio,s :) i have atm the baofeng uv 17 :) i m only use it on pmr
Why you complain about cheap Chinese stuff ? Everyone here is posting with cheap China junk .
Nope, COST RULES...Cheap crap sells! But thanks for the tests!
not every radio owner. just radio owners who can afford fancy equipment beyond a nagoya antenna
The Baofeng was almost out of Battery power ...not a fare test imo..
So with more battery power you expect the harmonics to be less?
@@HamRadioDX On cheap radios like this I'd expect the power amplifier to behave differently on full battery voltage vs. the end of it's lower range.
And in most cases, better.
But the test will need to be made in order to know.