Muay Thai vs Boxing Cross | Punch Differences
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 เม.ย. 2021
- I'm always fascinated how different the same technique can be at the other side of the world.
The trainers in Thailand wanted me to relearn how to throw my cross. One of the most basic techniques in our arsenal.
So today I show you the differences between a boxing cross and muay thai cross and explain the positives and negatives of each punch...and which I now prefer.
If you enjoyed the video please share, like and/or subscribe 🙏
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Could you do a video on how to cultivate your own style and analyze your own strength & weaknesses? Amazing content as always!
Spar a lot and have someone or some other way to record and watch it over and over. Plus you will find from sparring a lot what your bad at or what you need to work on pretty quickly. If you can’t spar find a way, because you might be doing some stupid stuff that feels cool on the bag but when you spar doesn’t work for shit. Also you can’t learn your style of fighting if you don’t fight, simple as that. Its like trying to learn tour favorite swimming stroke without ever going into the water. Just my experience. Also it helps to find fighter breakdowns on fighters with similar physique to you, try out their tactics and see if it works. But make sure to try it in sparring, if it doesn’t work though don’t discard it right away. Maybe when you get better you can try it again and find more success with it.
I second this and I'm sure he'll do a video on style, it's a good topic.
In the meantime I recommend you record yourself as much as you can, watch yourself and correct any mistakes you have and keep the things you do well or simply whatever you like.
Also watch others and take notes from them, especially those who are the best and at the very top, you can learn a lot from them, try new things all the time and find what you like.
All you need is a phone like the one you're using right now and yourself :). All the best Chok Dee :)
Only answer to this is to learn A LOT of styles and techniques and find what is useful or more comfortable for you 👍
Look at your body type (height, reach, mass) and the weight you want to fight in and find techniques/stances that work for you
He answered!
In Thailand they taught me boxing cross where I was training.
A lot of muay thai is focusing less on boxing combinations but on getting maximal power behind everything. The lean in and drop is very similar like an overhand in boxing.
From my xp training in different gyms ins Thailand. Every trainer has a different approach to things. So at the end of the day just choose what style works best for you haha
You're a champion on the ring, as well as a champ at teaching and analyzing combat technique. Like and enjoy this videos a lot. Thanks for doing what you do Mr. Varga.
Thanks so much and I'll keep the videos coming.
spot on, im not even really interested in martial arts any longer but this teacher is unmatched, which is why i keep coming back
This is basically just the difference between an overhand right and a straight right. They're differant puches with different set ups.
That's exactly my thoughts.
If you need to pick one out of two, is the straight right, less telegraphing, shorter way to the target, therefore easier to land.
In my experience cross works a lot better, after a combo, or as a counter punch on punch, e.g. right cross over a jab.
I think another reason for the difference might be that hand fighting is more common in Muay Thai and that blocks the straight line shot
That's a good point. Another factor is leaving that hand/arm a split second too long out there may give MMA fighters / jiujitsu/ judoka something to manipulate... not part of the Muay Thai game.
@@RyanAggabao It actually is a huge factor in Muay Thai. It's called the clinch. Any good clinch fighter will capitalize on the opportunity.
@@fkin8shyt you can still capitalize on the clinch just as efficiently without compromising your punch. The variation is unneeded.
@@Donky_Kongs_Baby I dunno what your point was replying to my comment.
Great breakdown bro. I'm a grappler who's trained with striking and now really want to develop it. Boxing looks like the way to go.
P.S. I subbed after watching your fight.
Glad you got to watch the fight and I appreciate the sub 🙏
It would be cool if you made more vids about Dutch Kickboxing. Like their approach to fighting Thai fighters, some combo strings, and its differences from say the Muay Matt style of MT.
I'm pretty sure he made one with a comparison to Muay Thai, spoiler alert:
Muay Thai won the comparison by 1 point
Combo strings? Boy you play too much street fighter 😁
@@markmessi9020 😂
The hit and drop works well for setting up the lead uppercut I imagine.
Hey mate recently started watching your videos. Had 2 amateur fights and am 2-0 now and fighting again in 5 weeks. Thanks so much for the wisdom and knowledge, keep up the good work! 🙏
Damn you gonna get KOd
@@DrooledOn forget about that fool, good luck on your fight!
@@erasylnash6697 thanks mate!
@@DrooledOn righto mate
@@erasylnash6697 if he can’t handle a random person talking trash he’s not built to be a fighter.
Thanks for taking the time to make these vids, really enjoying them very informative!
Im in Thailand training at the moment.
I did boxing for years and only recently started training thai boxing.
They are teaching me to twist my wrists on contact...
I always thought that was interesting
Definitely a different style of punching. Just small differences but they are certainly there.
Have fun training 💪
@@GabrielVargaOfficial thanks man.. great channel
World class content Gabriel, the why can only be explained by seasoned experts like you.
The information on this channel is a goldmine! Thank you Gabriel this channel is awesome! As someone who loves and appreciates both Thai and Dutch methods I have been trying to see what the major differences are and this video sums it up for me thank you! Personally for me I would like to incorporate the Thai and the Dutch as well as Western boxing and cross-train all three!
Love these types of analysis.
I never knew the difference between the Thai cross and boxing cross. That was a great explanation. I use the boxing cross. I had it beaten into me at an early age to never lift the elbow when throwing punches.
I'm so glad I found your channel Champ, keep up the quality content!
Amazing as always Gabriel.
Great vdo again, Sawasdee Krub!
Perfect video, in Thailand I've experienced the same. They were correcting me -like it is the only correct way🥺, to throw like you mentioned because I first learned the boxing-style cross. But I kinda mix both, but mostly I use the boxing method. Just out of personal preference, because it works for me. Perfect analysis as always.
Appreciate these kinds of vids.
Impeccable teaching and explanations. Thanks!
Great video once again. My understanding from training in Thailand was, they punch down when they land to try and cause a cut. Boxing is the lowest scoring weapon so they hit hard with the knuckle and try cause a cut.
Interesting. Thanks for that insight.
They just tried to change my technique but with the language barrier couldn't seem to tell me why.
@@GabrielVargaOfficial just sharing an insight I got thought you might like to hear. Keep up the great work. Big fan of your fighting style
Drop your cross for a drop at your opponents. Kalubdam has a beautiful and powerful dropped left hand. Thanks Gabriel, this boxing advices for kickboxing are great 🥊
I love those technique videos!
love every bit of your videos 🤩
The best combat sport channel thank you champ for the best content !!
I appreciate that 🙏🙏
Interesting breakdown, thanks! The guy from Precision Striking just recently put out a video on the 'chopping right hand' in boxing, which to me looked quite similar to what you refer to as the Thai-cross here.
This was very interesting. Thanks for posting.
Good explanation !
One of the reasons why the Thai cross comes down after connecting is so that you can immediately grab your opponents head and pull them into a kick or knee, I believe.
Both crosses are amazing but it makes the most sense to use the Thai cross in Muay Thai and the boxing cross basically anywhere else.
I use the overhand for that exact attack. To pull my opponent into my knee or initiate the clinch, but I still use the western boxing style to punch & it's effective. It's whatever makes you more effective. I think fighters should learn both.
@@fkin8shyt Absolutely, no reason not to learn and master both, since both are excellent tools of the trade.
It's the same concept as learning both Thai and Dutch styles of low kicks, or say, a Kyokushin style low kick. The wonderful thing is that while these are different techniques, they're not fundamentally different. More like different species, but belonging to the same genus.
It won't take a million years of painstaking practice to become adept at, say, two or three subtypes of low kicks, or two subtypes of cross punches.
Thanks for showing the differences.
I have the impression that that the Muay Thai stance is more straight in front of your opponent. Maybe they modified the cross in this way to put more power behind it. I find the boxing cross an extremely technical punch, but very powerful if you master the fine points (hip rotation, shoulder push,...)
I would love to see more videos about boxing from you, champ!
wow AMAZING u seem to know everything,..
not only that, the analysis is Remarkable👍👍👍
That was an awesome breakdown. I love you are not rigid in your opinion Gabe. " This is the correct way!" No you explain the methodology and logic behind each lunch and then state what works for you and why. I agree with you when you say that what makes a good coach. Present the information, present the technique and let the person decide for themselves what works for them.
Punch not lunch....although I am hungry.
Enjoyed this video!
Awesome, thank you!
Good video. I'm currently training at a very thai style gym after training in a more combination muaythai style gym. They're correcting my right cross to hit and drop. I feel this is more powerful and effective in muaythai where the boxing cross is more for boxing.
Great Video and good informations. Thx
Great video
Howdy Gabriel, I enjoyed your video as per usual but I wanted to make a few points from a biomechanics perspective that may be of value to you and your viewers.
using the two methods you described here as references:
Thai-style drop cross will generate more momentum due to:
1. the larger displacement of the center of mass. Basically, they are moving more of their mass from the rear to the lead leg creating more kinetic energy. (It can be tactically riskier and slower to recover from as you stated due to it being a larger and heavier movement.) They are also hinging more on the lead hip which allows for further rotation and reach. The follow-up combinations should make use of the forward momentum of this strike as it is slow and energy costing to try reverse.
2. the slight drop if timed correctly incorporates gravitational acceleration on their body mass which can be summated/ added to the movement energy. (the old "sit on your punches" concept)
3. The forward tilt again assists with greater weight transfer from the rear to the lead leg. For tilt also create an affinity for forward momentum and gravitational pull.
4. As you mentioned the trajectory of the punch changes with the above adjustments making for a better knockout blow if successfully landed due to the greater rotational torque and whip from the jaw impact. faster and greater rotation while take place in the neck (the blow will cause the skull to whip faster and further making the brain bounce inside the skull more viciously)
The boxers cross which you described (there are many variations) has different attributes and mechanics
1. The weight transfer is less dramatic making the punch momentum less but far easier to recover from. (the movement is smaller and more balanced.)
2. This type of cross is much more versatile in combination as you have better control of your center of mass which opens directionally possibilities in follow-up strikes. (the "thai Style is committing to a forward momentum approach which needs a different more limited follow up plan)
anyway, let me not write essays. Keep up the great work bud! 🤝💪
Warm regards
Stephen
Which style of cross do you prefer??? 👊
Boxing definitely, I find that MMA fighters/kickboxers/thai boxers who focus a lot on boxing have a little more success at close range than their opponents. Including you actually, so I encourage fighters to focus a lot on boxing like you do. Especially MMA fighters, I find that most of them suck at boxing
Obviously Boxing!
@@champ1159 not in muay Thai at a high level, the level of clinching the Thai's have nullifies it. And as for MMA almost all MMA strikers just aren't that good at striking.
Definitely the boxing one. In general I prefer to stay at long range using kicks and straight punches, it simply feels safer to me. On the other hand a lot of sparring partners complimented my left hand (southpaw), they said there is very little tell and it is fast so why change it.
I actually like the thai cross a lot. I use the boxing cross when I’m going for speed and combos and I’m just trying to tag my opponent, “in n out”, but when I fade back and throw a counter straight the thai cross has the little bit more oomph to it and its great when you set it up as I find it more rewarding. It reminds of Hearns’ cross, and like the Hitman I also like to stiff arm and guard manipulate my opponents so this style of cross makes it easier to get the best angle to hit them through their guard in that position. I suspect that this is the reason Petrosyan likes to throw it at a slight angle also as he is quite fond of guard manipulation. Reminds me of how Alexis Arguello or Carlos Monzon threw their crosses, and they had some mean dangerous crosses, but they also knew how to set it up perfectly.
Great like always
Thank you so much 😀
Wow very useful
Pls. Make a 10 minute follow along shadowboxing workout kickboxing style
Hey Gabriel, thank you for all the value in the videos you produce for us all. Is there anyway to condition your forearm from damage from kicks? Also recovery time is something I struggle to find the sweet spot between training too hard and not training hard enough.
I am not Gabriel but I think I know what he would say about the conditioning thing. And I'm commenting here so it's more likely he will see your question haha
Get somone to kick you with shin pads on for 2. 2 minute rounds
Dont use just your forearm. use a three point dutch style block.
'conditioning' is just deadening nerves, it doesnt make your shit stronger. forearm small leg/shin big.
@@RAPEDBYBLACKS you don't know anything about martial arts so.... Repetive shock and vibration make you're bone denser... It's a well know medical law called''wolff' s law'' next time before writing some boreshit try to know you're subject
@@Gangstawalk1wolfs law accounts for density and hardness but not durability, fucking idiot. thats why boxers have dense hands but brittle. diamonds are hard but brittle if you drop one. Same thing with bones. Wolfs law doesnt say your bones become stronger fucking dumbass. now who is ignorant?
I just use them both based on the timing. I use the boxing one for combos and going straight down the middle. I use the thai one for over the shoulder counters or even chest punches/clinch set ups
The best 👍🏻👍🏻
From what I've learned in muay thai, i was told to punch that way to make sure that i properly connect with the knuckles instead of the finger joint(don't even know what to call it) since when I'm punching with the gloves on, i tend to not make a tight fist.
great video
Not all strikes are to be defended. The diving cross it's a great defence against overhand left hook for example. But it takes alot of balls to throw that kind of punch, have perfect timing and know what to expect if you fail reaching the target. If it lands it's a sure K.O. The different way of approaches in throwing a cross in different combat sports, highlights the fundamental differences between a pure Thay fighter who's trully commiting with almost every blow and a boxer who's mindset is more into a hit and evade kind of gameplan. Like you said, there's no perfect recepy, other than to be able to adapt and adjust your technique to the situation at hand. Nice video by the way. Very instructive. Keep them comming!
As a boxer who experienced boxing sparring with mt practioners i notice they load up consideraby more with their punches.
Tried muay Thai coming from karate a long time ago (I didn’t last long). I found that diferente in punching style hard to adapt to, and also thought it was hard on my shoulders.
Your form wasn’t good. Your shoulders should be relaxed and not tensed
Idk how can i define but it depends my palm position. Im talking about my right cross, if my palm direction is on my left(maybe i can define as a neutrol position) i use this jab for short range and i prefer boxing style because my opponent reaction can be quick like knee etc, i feel more safe. If my palm directs downward, it depends range of my opponent, i prefer boxing or thai style. Lastly, if my palm directs right that is outside of my angle, i always use thai style and it is for long range and high impact punch for some situation.
Could you do a video on the difference between boxing hook and muay thai hook? Many thanks!!!
Correct me if I’m wrong. But it seems to me that the boxing style is the straight right and the Muay Thai style described is the right cross. Cross is when the jab comes and you counter with the right with your head dipping slightly downwards to the left to slip the jab. The right crosses over the jab and you dip it slightly at an angle downwards to connect with the jaw. The right crosses with the opponent’s left that’s why it’s called a cross. Both are useful tools and you use it depending on the situation.
The second option looks good for wrestlers with threat of a takedown or shorter boxers countering a taller fighter's jab. The boxing standard form is like fundamentals taught to everyone.
Wondering if the difference has anything to do with the different stances? I imagine the flatter MT stance can generate more power with flared elbows and follow through while the traditional boxing more bladed stance gets more power from the feet and elbows tucked in.
No wonder my boxing padholder and MT padholder has such different reactions to my crosses. I drop alot in my punches and my MT pad holder is absolutely chilled about it.
isnt the muay thai style basically more like an overhand right then? thats kinda what i see here
Yeah and the Thais usually hold their hand away from the face a bit, not flush to the face, and from that position it's really the only way to throw the cross with power.
The ‘thai’ way is similiar technically to classical european/soviet boxing technique - where the shoulder is turned over as opposed to the wrist. The turned over shoulder and raised elbow gives more protection to the chin. I also use it and find it also more powerful for me.
way more powerful… its not just snapped anymore.. you cant in fact pull it with your whole bodweight through the opponents face like a hook this way… with more of a stiff arm, like less arm action and more body and shoulder action like the russians, where even amateur lightweight boxers have much more KO potential with their long shots… its also used by many pro boxers who stand more square. imo that is a cross while the one he calls boxers cross is a straight
I like some head dip because it's good against the overhand counter
Well, time to master both styles. ;)
Gabriel, have you considered placing your BOB in an orthodox (and at times in a southpaw) stance? I didn't think about this at first with mine, but started doing it more often than not, as usually you won't be facing someone standing completely square. I know this is just for the demo, but although you're a lot more experienced in combat sports than I am, it might be something of value that you haven't thought of. :)
You’ve made a very good observation. It certainly makes sense.
@@williamdavis7629 Thank you William :)
makes sense. atleast in traditional muay thai, most punches are just arm punches to set up lethal low kicks.
I'd like to see this for all the punches tho in fairness I do feel it is worth saying that because the amount of practicioners pool is so deep, in boxing and in mThai there is some considerable variety between gyms/fighters even within a sport as to how to punch etc
maybe the chopping motion is for guard manipulation? so you can open them up for kicks to the head and such
The muay thai cross seems to be very similar to the chopping right hand, but ai don't fully know what to look for.
Good observation.
Yeah the Hitman Hearns’ favourite move, noticed that too.
Could you do a video on front leg round house kicks my kicks with my front leg feel weak and look weird, I don’t know if it’s to do with my stance as when sparring it doesn’t feel natural to throw the front leg
Bonus purpose of the Muay Thai-style cross: easy feint/fake into a body cross. Upgradeable into Thomas Hearns's chopping cross - probably as part of a combo and also not something you throw all the time (unless you're as good as the Hitman himself) - more difficult to defend against and can be super-effective against the Philly shell (orthodox vs orthodox, or southpaw vs southpaw).
Boxing always :) you can make variations with the three punches without the strain
Best thing about this channel is he tries to make everything tailored to the individual and it makes everything much more applicable imo, binging this channel and loving it !
I think punching and then not pulling back but going down with the punch, it's also good because if you hit them with a really good shot oh, they are going to be dazed and most likely off balance. And that little momentum pushing down could almost knock you off your feet after being hit with a shot. I don't know if I'm explaining it correctly. Sometimes you see Floyd Mayweather do it, he will punch and when it connects he almost pushes the person at the same time, and the person usually Falls over
i would also add that in muay Thai punches don't really score unless they have a significant impact so their punch generates a bit more power from its upright stance.
in boxing that fast straight will score.
We do that because we counter with strikes and when we fight others who fight the same it just works better but definitely not against a boxer I would get close and use my elbows and knees mostly
the muay Thai cross you demonstrated is the one used in boxing. The very reason a cross is called a cross is because it crosses over the lead arm of your opponent. A cross is inherently a counter to jab and it must arc to the left and down slightly (towards the chin of opponent).
Joe Louis had a great example of this. He would only ever throw the right as a knockout punch and it was so tightly arced that it was a hook.
In terms of the most common styles of long range crosses in boxing, they look exactly like the Thai one you are describing. A straight right is a different punch altogether.
A straight right is not a counter to jab.
Feels like the Thai cross is a link to either a turn elbow, backfist, back kick.
Oh shit never knew there was differences lol,although hearing this I actually do the Muay Thai cross,always hit then move head of the target,
This shit is GOLD!!!
The way the Thai throws the straight cross punch, it looks more like an overhand right than a cross.
Is it possible to incorporate muyai thai and boxing into one? I feel like that’ll be a dangerous combination of boxing defense with muyai Thai strikes and maybe even boxing combination
Elbows possibly are a factor in the technique of the Muay Thai cross. The motion of the cross and elbow is similar imo.
Awesome point!
Samarts school is very classic boxing oriented if we are talking just hands
Question on this, I noticed even in your video, you pivot the back foot and your stance widens up a little. I’m noticing that I’m putting weight on my front foot in the cross which is making it hard for me to check a kick with my lead leg. If my cross doesn’t land, I tend to get kicked. Do you have any good tips on recovering position quickly so that my lead leg is freed up to check or throw a round kick? Right now, I feel clumsy every time I try this!
Sounds like you are a bit off balance. When you throw the cross there is weight on your front foot, but as soon as you retract, you should be able to lift your front foot to check. Don’t commit too much on your cross, keep your balance and don’t lean in (too much). Practice it with shadow boxing. Our trainer always told is that you should consider your arm as an elastic cord…hit and immediately retract.
Tommy Hearns lifts his elbow on his cross. But he sets it up first because when it lands it's almost always good night. His jabs are like rapid crosses tho.
Great teaching! What’s your opinion on Mike Tyson’s style? H
Oooh I've heard this calling a chopping cross like hitman hearns
Chopping cross. Great name.
just cross… the other one is a straight… like i wrote in another comment before : russians will teach you even 6 variants more, like every angle in between a straight, a cross and a hook and a haymaker and they even have names for all of those and applications… western countries amateur boxing basic school ignores so much in terms of bodymechanics and calls some mechanics sloppy although they are supposed to be applied sharp (and not swung wildly at all) which are actual effective knockout techniques… hence much more knockout potential in russian amateur boxing even in light weightclasses. russian kids even have that knockout capable front hand long hook jab hybrid while in the west they teach you to worry about scoring points and you have find out the knockout techniques for yourself later when you develop an own pro style like the black american pro boxers all did… straight right = teakwondo snap kick … pulled (not snapped) cross = thai roundhouse kick (powerwise)
Isn't that thai style cross just an overhand right?
Was the punch McGregor landed on Aldo Muay Thai? Looks similar to that Thai style of downward on the punch event though he has a side stance karate and boxing background. Conor really followed through down.
Conor has his own sort of thing happening. He seems to has long arms and he drops his punch at the end. I wouldn't say muay thai style but definitely not proper boxing style either.
Do you think women in their 40's is ok to still compete? I still well and want to compete when covid restrictions lift. Did a few tournaments prior shutdown am told I am good for stand up and can do well. I also believe this! but, sprint training can be very draining at my age. What do you think about that? Thanks for your input.
glenohumeral abduction with internal rotation causes impingement for about 85% of the population. This is why the MT style punch bothers your shoulder.
Another big difference between the two styles is how the hands are wrapped. Stacking, casting and loading are all banned in Boxing, yet are par for the course in M.T.
you are just doing a straight right which admittedly some now call a cross-the original was more part hook and often crossed a missed opponents straight punch
Bxing does both types of crosses like Floyd Mayweather, Mike Tyson .. They don`t do only basic boxing. Boxers are experts with hands. I agree that muay thai fighters use often that cross u demonstrated, as boxers use the classic jab. Doesn`t mean they don`t use different tecnhiques during the combat.
The "boxing" cross looks more basic and efficient, however there are so many variations. The "Muay Thai" cross could perhaps be considered "chopping" or a "raking" cross.
It depends of the stances of both of them
Good ole Celtic cross
Muay Thai body roundhouse vs Kickboxing body roundhouse??
Well in Muay Thai boxing if your head keeps going back to the same position it becomes a target. If you punch and go in and clench you are less likely to get kick. Getting punched in the head is bad but if your opponent has dead shins and you set in a boxing stance and your head goes to the same position this sets you up for a head kick because it becomes a target. Secondly, muay thai Fighters might can't do a regular boxing match very well because of the over reaching and clenching they do.
It seems like a trade off of defense for over penetration
Pretty interesting....boxed growing up, dont know anything about muay thai.....we’re taught from the very beginning to “ stay tight” elbows in.....when you start raising that elbow in a jab or cross....its a dead giveaway...telegraphing....guys will catch on real quick ....not saying the thai style is wrong....just different and obviously works for that discipline