Distilling Cheap Wine : Is It Drinkable?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.พ. 2023
- I can't belive I have yet to actually distill a box of cheap wine! Can we make a tasty brandy from it? Perhaps something else, and what about the sulfites?
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Obviously, keep in mind you will likely get widely varying results based on the exact wine you distill. Thats actually the fun of it I guess! Drop a comment if you have tried something similar.
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Picking different types or brands of wine will likely give very different results. But thats the fun of it! If you have tried something similar sound off bellow to suggest a certain type of wine . . . .. or warn us away from it!
Could we send you flavor sticks from old wood? I’ve got some 100 year old oak I can’t use - I know someone could benefit from it
Distill Chinese rice wine, it's about 40% top start! I distilled some cooking wine, they put salt in it so you can't drink it, and it was on for a buck a bottle! Cheaper as turbo yeast! What ever happened to "Tony Auckland" home distillation site? It used to be great.
I've done it with a buttery chardonnay and a sangria....the sangria was pretty good, chard not so much
@@davidsanderson6459 franzia?
@@JohnFerrerAkaEric yes it was, actually
I've had a couple of home made wine experiments that I ended up distilling, rather than ditching. One nasty tasting apple peach wine, ended up being the best brandy I've made. The other... Well I'm probably the only person with 500ml of 65% abv of a very interesting Marmite spirit.
Brilliant
So you fermented with marmite rather than yeast, or added yeast to dissolved marmite?
@@wesleythomas7125I made a gallon of wine with sugar as the fermentable and four tbsp (from memory) of marmite added. I didn't expect it to ferment because of the high salt content but it fermented no problem with E1118 champagne yeast (that stuff could ferment concrete). The wine would have been OK to cook with as it had a definite umami taste but I couldn't resist distilling it.
I made five gallons of plum wine many years ago that was so bad I made a pressure cooker pot still and Liebig to fix it with. Totally worth it.
@@jrrarglblarg9241 I have a descent home made reflux still that can be converted to a pot still. But I still have my old stove top, converted pressure cooker for smaller quantities and experiments.
Box wine is absolutely a thing here in the US. Many years ago it was popular in my circle to remove the bladder from the box and drink straight from it. Some of it is perfectly drinkable.
Don’t forget to slap the bag!!!
In Australia we call that goon and a goon bag respectfuly, they are cultural staples.
As mentioned, in Australia it's a right of passage to drink goon. Party game is to attach it to a clothes line called a Hills hoist which spins. So it's like wheel of fortune, rotate the clothes line and whoever it falls on has to take a skull from it. Many scary times
@@danielnelson2725 I've said it before and I'll say it again: You Aussies know how to party! Were I a younger man, I'd be introducing this tradition in Ohio.
@@joelsmith552 best effort was 6 litres of goon in one night plus a few beers.
A friend who had 144 bottles of 20 year old (or older) bottles of home made wine, gave them to me to distill. Each bottle was tasted to ensure it hadn’t gone bad, decanted each into the boiler and distilled them. Put the hearts into medium charred oak casks for two months and… fantastic home made brandy! Give it a try folks!!!
Unpalatable wine is how I got into distilling. I had about 10 gallons of wine that didn't quite hit the mark. After ageing for years, there was no significant improvement, so during lockdown boredom, I made a hand sanitiser production facility 😉
Waste not, want not
This was exactly how I got into distilling. Made hundreds of litres of random fruit wines, some were terrible after a long time, thought I might as well try to make brandy. Turned out bad but started a hobby!
Some friends made a cherry wine, and with the leftover crushed cherries added sugar, fermented and distilled. The spirit from the leftovers was then added back to the original cherry wine. Was like an awesome cherry port
The ironic thing about boxed/bagged wine is it does a better job protecting the wine from oxygen than the traditional bottle does (after its been opened)
Though I guess the expectation is a bottle of good wine will be drunk in a single sitting, and doesn't need to be preserved once opened
Aren't there vacuum pumps made for wine bottles that would solve this?
@@simonholmqvist8017 They can't pump all of the air out.
@@jekanyika you can also just displace the air in the bottle with computer duster. And if you were feeling extra fancy then you could also pull a vacuum on that computer duster gas. Though I'm sure just displacing the air would be good enough
@@josephgauthier5018 An inert gas like CO2, N2, or N2O would be a better bet. Most computer dusters have a bittering agent mixed in aswell, so it may impart a bitter flavor.
I did some reading on the origins of brandy. The lower abv, more acidic grape varieties of wine were distilled, probably as they did not keep so well and so as not to waste the wine. These gave rise to some of the finest brandy.
As a Tasmanian Australian 4L stills are legal here. I run 4L of Fresh Dry White through it & end up with 1L of 40% then add some banana essence & vanilla extract to it with a tiny bit of lemon juice to brighten it up. I do it once a months & age it for 6months. My wife and her friends get together monthly & go nuts for it.
Many here in Canada have woken with these pillows also. Lol.
The very first run we made was a bunch of miscellaneous bottles of wine that were leftover from a wedding at a cultural center. It was a total mish mash of about 10 different kinds ds plus a couple extra boxes added for volume. It turned out fantastic and everyone who tried it wanted some. Guys were asking me to sell them some or make them some but I could have never recreated it if I wanted to. I'd absolutely do it again and hope for the best.
It's actually a pretty good brandy after I ultrasonic wood aged it. Used your exact air still. Edit: Yes boxed wine is very common here in Canada too, perfect for hosting a party And yes it's not very cost effective, my cheap box wine cost $32 and I could buy a decent 750ml bottle of Brandy for $38.
I'm pretty sure distilling even for personal use in Canada is against our alcohol laws.
@@tiny989 It is in most countries, so what?
@@ws8080 Canadian alcohol taxes are sky high as are the penalties for undisclosed imports from the US and for short trips the duty free allowance is microscopic nowadays.
@@tiny989 cry about it
@@chillermiller3565 wtf am I crying about? I'm not the one on the forum admitting to bootlegging in Canada. I never see the reason to admit openly that you are involved in illegal acts.
Side note I don't agree with there being such harsh guidelines for home distillation in Canada and would like it to be like in NZ.
Boxed wine (known as a 3 liter) is a big thing in Norway too. It's usually for young people going to a party or older folks having friends or family visiting when a bottle or two simply isn't enough.
It is quite popular here in Sweden, but I can't drink wine without feeling like shit. Half a liter of vodka and I am up before the morning birds. But just a little glass of wine and I will feel like shit for days to come.
@@savagesarethebest7251 You might have sulphur allergies.
The process for packaging 'cask wine' (boxed wine) was invented by Thomas Angove, a winemaker from Renmark, South Australia, and patented by his company on April 20, 1964.
We call it "goon" here, short for "flagoon" (flagon)
Been looking forward to this. I like how you continue to use the humble air still for experimentation. Making distillation accessible.
I wonder about doing this each time I’m at the grocery store- thanks! I use the gin basket with copper saddles all the time, too.
Box wine is a thing in the US. Its such a thing here if you drink straight from the bag without the box we call it "slapping the bag". Costco has one of the best box wines in my opinion.
Haha nice, dude it dose not surprise me. Say what you want about Costco. . . . They have crazy value to cost
@@StillIt everything they make is the market average or better. Their bourbon is probably one of the best given it's price. Also if you're into golf they say their golf balls are the best all around for flight and spin control
Of course Costco has a good Box wine
Or in Australia, we attached goon bags(boxed wine) to a clothesline and play goon of fortune
@@ianwilson3935 The box and plastic bag is where the value is in Aussie wine... Only pulling your leg, I do like a good Aussie Shiraz.
My name is Nikolay and I am from Moscow, Russia.
We also have here in supermarkets cheep wine available, usually in 2 litre packs.
Couple of years ago I bought a 20 litre oak barrel to prepare my future home-made whiskey. To season this barrel I purchased ten packs of such cheep wine, added some dextrose and some recrified alcohol (of my own) for kind of fortified wine and poured it into the barrel for several months.
Several months later I emptied the barrel and decided to distill this mixture (not just to through it away).
In my country this cheep wine has rather bad reputation among experts. People say, it is "powder wine" (that is, prepared dissolving powder concentrate with plain water). Pleasant surprise: after stripping and fraction runs the liquor in taste and aroma was very much similar to Italian grappa. So, this cheep wine is made from real wine grapes!
Спасибо, надо будет попробовать
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I’m so thankful you posted something! I was bored and needed you’re awesome face to be entertained. Pouring a glass and getting ready!
Great to get the tips for dealing with sulfates. Thanks.
You can get boxed wine up in Canada as well, the brands that do it tend to be a bit limited but is a bit of a popular option when you have lots of people over and don't want the cleanup of a bunch of bottles or just want to have wine 'on tap' in the fridge for small glasses on occasion. Apparently the wine keeps better since air doesn't get inside the bag.
The very first thing I ever distilled was inexpensive, higher ABV Chardonnay, and I've done it a few times since. From my experience the brightest fruity flavors come closer to the heads, the flatter flavors nearing the tails. The 2nd distillation cleaned it up considerably.
You should mix sangria flavours into the spirit! Instant sangria brandy to mix with wine! Love the channel! Such creative and inspirational content! You are a genuine and down to earth, which makes your videos easy to digest and thoroughly entertaining! Keep up the amazing work!
Have done it a couple times with all the straggler bottles of wine that end up around the house from dinner parties and holiday gatherings -- one run, cuts, and then add sugar and cherries for some brandy. I let it sit a couple months and it becomes a super tasty mixer in other drinks.
Hello from Wisconsin USA! We have boxed wine here that comes in a 2.5/3 gallon bag of course! The first thing I ran in my still was five gallons of homemade strawberry wine that had frozen same thing here it was just ok thank you for the videos and all the great information
I have taken some old canned wine and distilled it, then used it as the base for a genever (to be somewhat historically accurate).
Hey! you should use a wine kit to make a grape brandy wash! Im very tempted to try it, without the use of sulphites. Here in NZ you can get them for about $70 for the lower end ones, which does not seem bad at all for a 23L wash.
We can get that type of air still here in the States from Mile Hi Distilling...I have one for distilling water for diluting everclear for my vanilla extracts... Love your video!!
Thanks so much for doing this. I was totally wondering exactly.
Im actually doing this experiment right now using wine grape lees (its harvest time in aus right now) to make a shiraz, i intend to tincture it with some 60 abv white rum i made a while ago to make fortified wine. I find that if you use lees to make your own the cost/return ratio gets far better.
SNAP! I did my first attempt yesterday with Velluto Rosso! 😳
With your advice I’ll re-distill with copper.
Meh was the exact reaction I had after the first run.
Thank you for your posts. 👍
Just started watching your videos - really enjoy! Do you have anymore brews using the Air Still? I recently replaced my huge stainless rig for this more convenient countertop rig. I've had some success with vodka, soju, and various herbal extracts.
I did a Home brew Merlot kit but didn't add the other stuff for clarity or sulfur additions. Once it was processed, used the French oak chips it came with. I was rather happy with the results for what it was.
This is a really good idea...did you still use copper even though you left out the sulfur?
Boxed wine is big in South Africa as well. 3lt and 5lt is the standard. Its mostly plonk you get in the boxes but last couple of years there have been a real effort to improve the quality. Nowadays you can get quite decent quality wines in boxes.
I used to buy four 4 liter jugs of "Burgundy" from Smart & Final and would end up with just shy of 4 liters (around a gallon) of 100 proof brandy. I'd age it with oak barrel chunks and it was certainly drinkable.
Hmmm, the old Goon Bag. I might have to try something slightly more upscale. Jug wine!😂 Love the experiment, brother!
I've been distilling old, homemade, oxidized wine that was essentially undrinkable and it's actually pretty danged good. Made apple pie out of most of it for Christmas with good results.
This makes me genuinely curious about distilling some homebrew traditional mead to use in fortifying other more specialty homebrew meads!
Yup, cheap box wine is a thing in the states and is surprisingly good as cooking wine, Franzia chardonnay is my go to white for cooking, Carlo Rossi Burgundy for red, makes great meaty pasta sauces and red meat gravies.
Hey I'm new to your channel and watching you do all this stuff is awesome. In the last couple of months I read lots on destilation and every day I learn more about it from your videos, thanks on that. In this episode you are trying to make Brande that's cool but I will suggest you to make it from white wine probably some rizling or some sour wine. Double destilation and you are good to go. Put some oak sticks in it for 3-4 months and enjoy.
We got ‘em in the US - common to use it in college to play “slap bag”
In the U.S., we have some amazing box wines. My favourite brand is Bota Box. They have a bourbon barrel aged Cab Sav that is heavenly.
Thank you so much for this video and all the others air still videos!!! 🙏🏻
Now I want to play alquemist with my drinks! 😅
Here in Finland and EU we have many of those boxed wines, some are quite good, and some can be just tolerable to have a chill Netflix night.
Thanks again for the videos, cool hobby indeed 😎🥃🍸🍹
Question: After you do your cleaning run, what would you think of combining it with a fermented oat mash and then making the second run?
I bought a cheap $10 cushion of multi fruit flavoured with 5L worth and run it through the air still and found it was the best use of the still so far though that was years ago when I only distilled to have a cheap buzz. I've grown since then
Great video! It would be interesting to see how distilled more expensive wine would compare to this cheap wine-distillate. Keep doing these videos! They are very informative and fun although I personally can't distill because of legal reasons...
Love your videos and it got me back into the craft but having a problem decided to do a quick mead and ordered champagne yeast. When in the buckets it’s not fermenting I added heaters to keep the wort at 80 f but nothing any ideas or a good yeast?
Is in Oz. Don't drink it myself but understand the appeal and convenience
Agreed haha
I have this little machine at home; I am pleased with it (knowing its limitations).
I´ve distilled a sugar cane wash during Xmas, trying to obtain some Agricole rum.
Out of the 20-litter wash I had, it produced about 1.8 litres of a delicious spirit, sitting at 50% ABV; as for the cuts, I did it all by taste and blended almost everything.
The profile (at 50%) is sweet, grassy, and mellow.
Overall, very proud of it; my family loved it!
Boxed wine is available in Canada, although they are usually cheaper blends. However, my wife and I love them as it makes it much easier to have a glass when we want.
Common Idee in Germany to use wine. Just finished a pretty cheap white wine. After Destillation he had only a few month to rest in a small toasted oak barrel. Good result, everybody is fine with It. Thanks 4 wonderful ideas in ur Channel.
here in Italy i do a distilation once a year with left over wine from my cellar. i do one run through a thumper with mandirin peel, honey and rosmary then i proof it to about 55 abv and its realy good brandy. this year we filled a 5 liter oak barell made in sicily to age it 5 years.
You are awesome always 👌
Please do more video on continuous still, probably explain how it works & if you can build one I will be grateful. 🙏 🙏 🙏
Sweet, I'll give this one a crack as well. I think that the 'Goon Bag' (plastic bag in a cardboard box) was invented in South Australia in the 1960's and it took off all over the world.
bag in box is a big thing here in sweden. and moast of eu aswell. we have some really good bag in box . we also use tetra pack for wine the cheep stuff.
I live in the countryside of Bordeaux, in the medoc. We got thoses bladder/carboards wine. Overall hte quality is great despite being cheap, we call it a "cubi" (keep in mind that there is a high culture of red wine over this part of France). Its from local 'Chateaux' and i love it. Distilling it is a crime. The natural fermentation product is already perfect :D ok... i might be biased :) Nice video as always.. now i want to try it ! :D
I'm very curious what you consider cheap?
@@MrJhchrist more or less 3€ per litre for a decent quality bladder/carboards wine. The price depends a lot from the distance to the source. For instance a few years ago, the same bottle of wine in supermarket "Mouton Cadet - Baron Rothschild" was 7.5€ in Bordeaux, around 10-12€ in Paris, and 20-25€ in Belgium/Luxembourg.
@@MrJhchrist I must point out "Mouton Cadet" is not a good wine, i dont recommend, you are just paying the brand/name "Baron Philippe de Rothschild", but its kinda known/available widely
@@hardrout17 Very interesting, thanks. You'd have to lock me up, because at that price I would 100% be running it through a still :)
@@MrJhchrist I would still considerate it a crime! 😁Wine is already a finished product with a complex and time consuming process to achieve all the quality. Distilling it would leave some flavour and complexity behind. Start from raw grapes for distillation, cheaper, more freedom in recipe, and wine is respected #WineLifeMatters! (Im just snobbing as a French guy from Bordeaux, the experience and output is probably worth it!) cheers ;)
I did this exact thing for my first sacrificial distillation in a brand new still. Didn’t dare taste it but it smelled very interesting.
I did a run about a year ago with 8 gallons of Franzia Red Wine. I did a 1 and done run and it tasted and smelled like a good red wine only 50% ABV. I aged it on French oak. It was a pretty nice brandy.
So, sort of took this idea and ran with it. I got some Bacardi Black rum one time, and it tastes like crap no matter how you mix it, in my opinion. Anyway, I tossed it into my air still the other day, got a liquor that takes good, but white. Proofed it to 45%, and it's like a rum that has seen a barrel, with a hint of clove and licorice. Tastes good now, so I feel better that I was able to fix what I saw as a waste of money before.
I'm going back to make another batch of mead here soon. The last batch I made a few years ago only has half a bottle left. Might try stilling it like I saw you do before in another video.
Hey 😃Up here in a little Nordic country the wine-in-a-bag are also popular. Just check'ed at my local supermarket. 3 L. bags from 19 to 115 NZ Dollar. So theres a wide range of quality to try out, if one have the time for it. 😉 hypothetically that is 😇 Happy distilling 💪
I'm from NZ near Rotorua.
I just got this still last week and have worked out each run users about $1.50 power. So it's a economical way of experimentong.
Bonjour ! In france we have Good wine in bag, especialy White an rosé wine, usefull for party bbq etc
"That's actually not horrible."
Glowing review!
You never cease to be AMAZING!
I've distilled tomatoe wine and it turned out great. It's common here in USA
The US also has bags of wine in boxes, some of them are pretty good.
There is also some sulfites in the red wine used in the video in New Zealand. I don't know how much, I am highly allergic to sulfites and I just know I can't drink it beyond a sip. I am actually getting into home brewing and distilling because of my allergies to sulfites and possibly other things, like cleaners used to sterilise equipment. I'm experimenting to better understanding what I may be allergic too beyond sulfites
Jessy, I'm watching your videos in U.S., Question? I am new to using a refractometer that measures gravity, but have found no info on using it to measure abv above 80abv. 40%, how are you reading 55 or higher %.?
We have box wine in Canada. I work as security guard in the summer at a yacht club it common thing you see on the boats. Due to they up less space in bar fridge on smaller boats and less likely to break when boat rocking when sea rough
Thank you for doing this!
The copper in the “kettle” is a good tip, thanks
Do you have access to home wine kits using grape concentrate? They are common in the UK and 5l of concentrate makes 25l of whichever variety you choose. Last year I did 2 25l batches of pinot grigio, double distilled, aged a short while and bottled. 12 months later and is is delicious.
it is interesting to see that when you run a wine through a still you make the cuts to collect the heads and tails but I assume those chemicals would otherwise be in the wine that you would be drinking? Or do the chemicals only come out as part of the process of running through the still? Great clip.
Bought an Air Still from amazon about a year ago. It’s my first still & I love it. I’ve tried a lot of different fruit based mashes & most have turned out great. I have found that instead of using regular sugar I have better results with brown sugar. I was using honey as well but it’s gotten too expensive.
My next mash experiment is going to be yellow corn meal, whole wheat flour & agave nectar. Any suggestions or tips?
Awesome! I put a video out last week. A flow chart on how to deal with any ingredient. That will be a solid start ☺️
I had a mediocre wine from a kit, and I also had a need for high-proof unaged brandy, which I cannot buy here in Canada. I did the only thing a man can do in such a predicament. It double distilled it through a stainless column packed with copper mesh, and out my copper condenser. It is characterful, and sharp; exactly what I would want out of an unaged brandy. I use it to make amari and fortified wine (mostly vermouth).
Very common here in the USA
Ah there you go ! Ok good to know the USA will understand haha
@@StillIt I wouldn't be surprised if we even invented the concept
_[googles it]_
Nope it was the Australian Thomas Angove
Not sure if anyone has mentioned in the comments yet but cask wine always reminds me of Goon of fortune, Frenzal Rhombs song 4 litres and what we called it here in Oz...10 buck chuck although its priced a little more than $10 here now.
Have you tried adding limestone or a calcium salt to these sulfite containing wines then distilling them? doing so may significantly reduce the amount of sulfites that survive distillation due to the nonvolatility of calcium sulfite. significantly raising the ph may also work but can make volatile acids not carry over to the distilled product.
Distilled a few bottles 2018 Tohu Sav.... came out REALLY nice
We also have Smirnoff in a bag in Australia with multiple flavours
When i first built my still i was in a local discount store that had a sale on box wine that was dated. Dirt cheap, cheap enough that it was cheaper than making a sugar wash for my initial cleanse. Picked up enough boxes that it raised a few eyebrows at checkout. First 5 boxes were dumped in and just allowed to run with no condensor.
The rest were dumped in and made into my first ever distilate. It was a mix of strawberry and some type of white wine. The results were quite palatble, but not exactly amazing. But i was still learning and have often thought about trying it again just to see if i could do better.
How many grams of copper per liter would you use for distilling sulfited washes? I'm wondering if the copper in my T500's column is necessary for my own all natural washes.
I recently toured Courvoisier and their eau de vie is very fruity.
Well that answered my question thank you 😊
If I’m distilling Ever Clear with some flavoring, do I have to worry about heads, being that it’s already been distilled? I’m new to this and want to be sure. Thank You in advance for your help.
Hi Mr stil It😎 i have a similar stil.like you use here!! But it start to boil pretty fast!! Dere is not a termostat on it!! Do you have a advise what i can do?? Have order a New stil !! Think it will be better then😎 love your canal mate!!
I got a good deal from Amazon 30 bottle red wine kit under £20 fermented out 😊did not use the oak chips provided as I would age after distillation stripping run first then run again slower fantastic results then used some to make a cherry brandy made apple brandy have the rest ageing will be ready for drinking by April 23
Boxed wine is common here in Sweden as well.
...and yes, there was a time when math was involved, and the comparative index has a unit: APK. (Hint: Currency of Sweden is called Krona) Cheers!
Wineboxes are quite normal here, netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, every shop I go to, they are for sale and contain pretty good wine for an affordable price
Can you please explain to us how you are using the EasyDens for testing proof, maybe a video?
These air stills are a special case. They are about 350W so sized for boiling out ethanol slowly, with out a temp control (other than shutoff). A better way to go is the same body with a PID control and the usual 750W element. That will do water distillation fast, and when you turn the temp down, anything else. Got one works a treat. Another Big plus is the standard ones with PID are common so really cheap. I think mine was 80USD.
Link ?
@@nwliving They are all over eBay and Amazon. Various and changing vendors. I think mine is a Vevor brand, but they are all the same pretty much.
I make muscadine eau-de-vie using an Air Still. A gallon of home made muscadine wine at 12% ABV yields around 750 ml of 80 proof eau-de-vie. It's great if you like muscadines.
I distilled some of my homemade rum then added a slice of apple, cinnamon, star anis and raisins. But my question at what temp should I run this countertop distiller the Vevor
The vanilla sweetness will come from the vanillin in the oak that the wine would have been in contact with. Country red is made with surplus Australian wine, it’s actually not bad wine. But yes, the sulphur is high as is all boxed wine, this is to try to counter the oxygen ingress that naturally occurs through plastic, and is done to extend the shelf life.
We have a bunch of boxed wine at the supermarkets in Denmark, but it's always seemed odd to me compared to just buying a bottle. Idk why, lol.
I have an off topic question I haven't been able to find an answer to. So if I do a stripping run and put it into my air still what proof should the solution be so it doesn't blow the top off my air still? Please help
Yep. We have it in the UK. I think the bag is foil though. I never thought to sleep on it😀
Yes sir very common and popular in the us! Cheers I’ve wondered this same question. Can you make a good brandy from cheap box wine?
We have some really good and some mediocre box wine in Canada. Our favorite is Wayne Gretzky box wine.. one of the more expensive ones but cheaper than in a bottle.
Hey, long time follower first time poster.. made 18 gallons of pear wine this year. First batch was a little green on the pears. Not completely ripe. It turned out like a decent pinot grigio. So I said heck with it. I distilled 5 bottles in my air still that I. Bought because of you and I captured a VERY NICE pear vodka at 50% that everyone loves. I probably will turn all of batch 1 (5 gal) into pear vodka Instead. This experiment you posted is so similar to what I did except use a white wine. Just a thought for future video.
I once took a tour of the Glass Vodka Distillery in Seattle that makes their vodka from wine. I believe they buy excess grapes and wine from Washington/PNW vineries. I think you should redo this experiment with a different box wine.
I have a 26 gallon still how much mash can I potentially fill for maximizing space , how much room do I need to leave in the still safely