Sorry about Mosport again Stu. Still no Endurance race love for Road America either. Rather they give the axe to Detroit and or Indy for cost saving. Guess take what we can get.
@@mathewhosier9739 tru but lime rock park as a fan experience is amazing. Sit where ever and the ability to see most of the track is sweet, byob and everything basically. Cost affordable and theres not many options in the northeast
Same here I was really upset last year when IMSA decided to nix Mid Ohio from the schedule I'm also upset that they haven't just decided to have the WeatherTech series go again
Not going doesn't help our cause. There was a stretch where we didn't get the top class in the late 90's ..I think we should get the GTPs as well but there isn't enough pit space for all four classes and they decided we don't get it. It is what it is....I don't like it but I think IMSA isn't treating us like Lime Rock either (off the schedule altogether (
@@asymsolutions we think so too. That is what we had last year. Mosport/CTMP is getting the short shrift. We have loyally been a IMSA stop forever and we lost the top division for a while in the 90's and we didn't appreciate it then but we kept supporting the IMSA series no matter what.
The schedule is missing three rounds for Mid-Ohio, Lime Rock Park, and COTA. I don't understand why they were dropped to begin with as all produce great racing. Also LMP2 headlining CTMP is dumb. No one wants to see stock prototypes be the flagship class. Either make it GT exclusive or bring back GTP
I'm with you when it comes to Mid Ohio, Lime Rock, and Mosport. But I honestly don't miss Austin one bit, even though it would theoretically be the closest race to me. I'm glad it was swapped out for Mid Ohio in 2018. All that paved run-off and pushing the surroundings away means a lot of the sense of speed and maneuverability is lost. It also basically means the race needs to be in a cold part of the year for it not to be miserably hot with all that heat convection. Plus, as far as being at the track, it doesn't seem like there's nearly enough shade spread around the place, and a number of what look like they could be prime viewing locations simply aren't accessible to spectators like they would be at the more old-school circuits. Austin just has too high a proportion of low- or medium-speed corners and not enough fast stuff. Although they're both pretty much the same length, Watkins Glen is ~25 mph faster on average speed for the GTPs, and ~30 mph faster for the Indy Cars. Even among relatively new-build F1 circuits, Austin is comparatively slow. To top it off, a number of the corners at Austin are more angular, rather than being more rounded, which effectively makes them more single-line affairs, unless you just kind of make it look like a joke by ignoring track limits. Finally, personally, I'd just like to off-load the Indy Roval onto the WEC at the soonest possible convenience. I thought the 2023 race was sort of a mess in a number of respects.
And if im correct we also have the next gen lmp2 cars debuting next year unless they postpone them till 2026 with dallara, ligier, multimatic and oreca all debuting new chassis that the current lmdh cars are based on, hopefully it doesnt end up turning spec like the current lmp2 class, they should implement BoP for lmp2 so that doesnt happen
It seems concerning to me that, when the series is supposed to be so prosperous, the schedule is apparently contracting. I also can't say that the quality of the venues has exactly improved since 2022. And frankly, if there was going to be a 5th enduro, I think the largest portion of the fan base would likely vote for Road America for that, not Indy. I hope the WEC gets Indy here soon enough, and IMSA can be freed up to go to a more attractive venue, a more inspiring circuit, instead. (I honestly have a hard time seeing the point of running a roval that doesn't use any of the oval's banked turns.) And back in 2022, they ran 12 round, plus that Qualifying Race at Daytona. As for running time, I took a look back at old IMSA, just for the heck of it. Even my ideal calendar would be well under the record figure from 1983.
Kinda disappointing. It seems like they are doing the same tracks over and over and over. Was really hoping to see imsa in person at cota eventually, since I doubt WEC will pick us again next year with all the american track choices and only 1 spot. This makes 3 years in a row now imsa havent put us in the calendar. Edit: Plus... are they serious? No gtp at canadian tire again?? They can squeeze gtp on some tiny technical track like long beach but have to omit them for canadian tire?? LMP2 is getting stale, I really hope they put the next generation of lesser prototypes replacing that class into effect soon. Watching an entire class of just a single car make isnt nearly as interesting to me.
IMSA hasn't been to Austin since 2017. They switched to Mid Ohio in 2018. The WEC was at Austin in in 2020 and is back this year. Austin is the only Grade 1 circuit, so I'm kind of suspicious the WEC will stay there, unless Indy becomes available to pick up, which I wouldn't mind. I'd rather see IMSA someplace else. I certainly want to see the GTPs back at Mosport, too, but I will point out that only 2 of the 4 classes will be at Long Beach. So it's not like they're taking the full field. I'm more concerned about them trying to run in downtown Detroit. As for why Long Beach? Riverside doesn't exist anymore and Willow Springs is considered to be too far out in the boonies.
No issues with the decisions. The idea to try to give the FIA and WEC heads up and hopefully get them to avoid conflicts next year is smart in my opinion. Leaving the GTPs out of the Canadian round as a cost control factor with the addition of Indianapolis in 2024 and 2025 is fine. And the LMP2 gets a headliner opportunity. On Lime Rock, I think it comes down to VIR vs Lime Rock and VIR is a much longer and interesting track from both a competitor and spectator standpoint.
Trouble is, there are many more people up northeast, and Mid Ohio is out, too. And like most, I just don't especially care that LMP2 gets a "headliner".
reading between the lines. indy pays more money than lime rock or mosport. so if it doesn’t make sense to you, thats why it makes sense to them. huge shame
I may be in the minority, but I really don't like the season ending with an endurance race at Atlanta. Perhaps LMP3 not being in the mix will make it less so, but the circuit is just too small for so many cars of varying speeds. Between that - and the visibility at/after sunset - it's more like the IMSA version of the chase in "The French Connection" than a proper race, by my standards: if I wanted to watch that kind of "edge of my seat" frenzy, I'd go to a demolition derby. I'd much rather see things end at Road America (though weather could be an issue), or a swap with an Atlanta sprint in the spring/Sebring finale: lots more room for endurance racing, at either.
First off, good luck building up a new event like PLM at a different venue. I think you forget just how sinuous the layout at Sebring really is. So even though it's longer (3.7 mi vs 2.54), there's a lot more to it. Dealing with traffic between Cunningham and Tower is difficult. Because the road eases to the right just before it, Bishop is only single-line. And we've seen that guys can't even seem to deal with traffic quite right going through Fangio in the last several years, even with that right/left being much more of a "straight" than it was in the old days. (I mean, if driving standards have gotten that bad, I'm not sure a change of venue is the answer.) Even with the new Turn 10, the back stretch at Road Atlanta is still almost certainly longer than the Ulmann Straight at Sebring, by more than 1,000 ft. And given the bumps and instant narrowing at the exit, I'd have to say that negotiating traffic at T1 at Road Atlanta is less sketchy than T1 at Sebring. A Prototype can pass a GT around the outside of T4 at Road Atlanta, and T6 is banked, which helps with traffic mitigation as well. On the other hand, at Sebring, you cna't do a whole lot through T3/4/5. And T11-12 at Road Atlanta doesn't have the bumps of Sunset at Sebring. Not to mention, take a look at the record average lap speeds: Old LMP1 - Sebring: 1:43.195, 129.076 mph (2008); Road Atlanta: 1:06.242, 138.039 mph (2008) DPI - Sebring: 1:45.166, 126.431 mph (2022); Road Atlanta: 1:08.412, 133.661 mph (2020) New GTP - Sebring: 1:45.836, 125.855 mph (2023); Road Atlanta: 1:09.671, 131.245 mph (2023) Right now, we only have a sample size of 1 with the GTPs, so I expect the margin to widen back out some. But anyway, it says something when a track that's more than a mile shorter is the better part of 10 mph faster on average speed.
@@Villoresi For me, "shorter - yet faster" is a big part of the issue: the race is too chaotic for my taste, due to an all-classes, FIFTY-EIGHT(!) car field in 2023. IMO, Atlanta would a great track for a pair of separate prototype and GT sprint races - not an all-in season endurance finale. I don't expect them to change it - I just don't like it, as configured. Thanks for all of the detailed info.
@@donholl There were only 52 starters for the 2023 PLM. Honestly, I'm far more worried about the potential "chaos" of an enduro at a track like Laguna Seca (which hosted 4- and 6-hour events for the ALMS) or the Indy Roval (has a 6-hour this year). In both cases last year, they got away with a lot of stuff that easily could have resulted in more cautions, but didn't. What I mean, is, you had a lot of erratic jinks and things going on, or guys pulling back on after a spin, and then tagging somebody else at the very next corner. Or a GT car charging a slower corner and tagging an LMP3. Conversely, watching the early stages of the 2023 PLM, again, you have a few moments of dumb driving and/or inexperience showing. The pace laps and opening bit were on a track with visible damp patches, and under those conditions, all bets are kind of off. Still, most of the driving on a lap-in, lap-out basis was actually pretty clean. Having fewer harsh braking/compression zones, which also means having a faster average lap speed, means fewer opportunities for big punts. And it's fewer chances for the most severe crossover of the relative strengths and weaknesses of Prototypes vs GTs. Back in the '80s, they ran 500-km races at Road Atlanta, with as many as 59 starters. And I feel pretty darn safe in saying that the speed differential between the old GTPs and the GTU cars was greater than GTP to GTD. It's interesting as well, that through the ALMS and current IMSA era, it seems like the average race speed has generally tended to be more stable year-on-year at Road Atlanta than at Sebring. And something extra to keep in mind with Road America is that, for most of the lap, it's only 30 ft wide between the white lines. At most every other permanent circuit they go to, it's at least 36 ft. Don't get me wrong, I'd vastly prefer an enduro at RA compared to Indy, but the "safety margin" of that track compared to a Sebring or Road Atlanta isn't necessarily as great as you seem to think. This all has gotten me a bit curious. So, how would you view a 6-hour race at Mosport, which IMSA did back in the '80s? (They also did a 6-hour at Mid Ohio back then.) And thanks. I try to do my research on the subject.
No Lime Rock again, we lost that track for a garbage roval with no banking and a single-car wide track in Detriot that will produce nothing but a wreckfest. Send them to Lime Rock and Charlotte instead on sprints instead of trying to make Indianapolis relevant for endurance racing.
That doesn't keep the series fresh enough in people's minds throughout the season. Also, there just aren't tracks that are really good for the longer races in a number of the places you'd actually want those races to be (Riverside is long gone for one). At the same time, there are still more than 7-8 great, classic road courses in the US & Canada that are suitable for these machines to run on. Now, if only IMSA would just get back to running at more of them.
Doonan is a ass giving perspective a big pay day on that stupid track. Watch because of it Porsche is going to get favorable bop. Because Porsche has to win. Panos is turning over in his grave dump lmsa and bring back American Leman the real golden age.
What do you think of the schedule?
Sorry about Mosport again Stu. Still no Endurance race love for Road America either. Rather they give the axe to Detroit and or Indy for cost saving. Guess take what we can get.
Lime Rock got screwed again, even after IMSA said they would be back in 2025. That sucks.
Lime Rock not on the schedule is a bit disappointing imo
It's not on the current schedule either
@WyldStallion-bs9oo meh, I'd rather see GTP with them, they are the stars of both IMSA and WEC
@@mathewhosier9739 tru but lime rock park as a fan experience is amazing. Sit where ever and the ability to see most of the track is sweet, byob and everything basically. Cost affordable and theres not many options in the northeast
Would love for WeatherTech championship to come to Mid-Ohio!
They used to
For me, the Pilot series is every bit as fun to watch as WT: if you haven't checked it out, try watching one of the older races on this platform.
Same here I was really upset last year when IMSA decided to nix Mid Ohio from the schedule I'm also upset that they haven't just decided to have the WeatherTech series go again
Love mid Ohio think it’s a little small for weathertech
Boo for no Lime Rock once again. I used to go there every year, and it is quite disappointing to see it gone for a second year in a row.
No GTP at ctmp? Guess I won't be going AGAIN
Not going doesn't help our cause. There was a stretch where we didn't get the top class in the late 90's ..I think we should get the GTPs as well but there isn't enough pit space for all four classes and they decided we don't get it. It is what it is....I don't like it but I think IMSA isn't treating us like Lime Rock either (off the schedule altogether (
@marklittle8805 that sucks for you guys, CTMP with the DPis always put on a good show. They should drop LMP2 before dropping GTP
@@asymsolutions we think so too. That is what we had last year. Mosport/CTMP is getting the short shrift. We have loyally been a IMSA stop forever and we lost the top division for a while in the 90's and we didn't appreciate it then but we kept supporting the IMSA series no matter what.
The schedule is missing three rounds for Mid-Ohio, Lime Rock Park, and COTA. I don't understand why they were dropped to begin with as all produce great racing.
Also LMP2 headlining CTMP is dumb. No one wants to see stock prototypes be the flagship class. Either make it GT exclusive or bring back GTP
I'm with you when it comes to Mid Ohio, Lime Rock, and Mosport.
But I honestly don't miss Austin one bit, even though it would theoretically be the closest race to me. I'm glad it was swapped out for Mid Ohio in 2018.
All that paved run-off and pushing the surroundings away means a lot of the sense of speed and maneuverability is lost. It also basically means the race needs to be in a cold part of the year for it not to be miserably hot with all that heat convection.
Plus, as far as being at the track, it doesn't seem like there's nearly enough shade spread around the place, and a number of what look like they could be prime viewing locations simply aren't accessible to spectators like they would be at the more old-school circuits.
Austin just has too high a proportion of low- or medium-speed corners and not enough fast stuff. Although they're both pretty much the same length, Watkins Glen is ~25 mph faster on average speed for the GTPs, and ~30 mph faster for the Indy Cars.
Even among relatively new-build F1 circuits, Austin is comparatively slow.
To top it off, a number of the corners at Austin are more angular, rather than being more rounded, which effectively makes them more single-line affairs, unless you just kind of make it look like a joke by ignoring track limits.
Finally, personally, I'd just like to off-load the Indy Roval onto the WEC at the soonest possible convenience. I thought the 2023 race was sort of a mess in a number of respects.
Nice video. Lots of this might have to do with contract to sign things ahead of schedule for planning also. Keep up the good work.
Would love to see them at mid Ohio!!!!
Willow Springs & Infineon (& even COTA in Austin since WEC & F1 also use it) could be *_AMAZING_* tracks for IMSA races
And if im correct we also have the next gen lmp2 cars debuting next year unless they postpone them till 2026 with dallara, ligier, multimatic and oreca all debuting new chassis that the current lmdh cars are based on, hopefully it doesnt end up turning spec like the current lmp2 class, they should implement BoP for lmp2 so that doesnt happen
Wait canada doesnt have GTP, fuck why did I buy my tickets already... I thought all races had GTP as a new viewer
No GTP at CTMP is not acceptable.
When does the race start
It seems concerning to me that, when the series is supposed to be so prosperous, the schedule is apparently contracting. I also can't say that the quality of the venues has exactly improved since 2022. And frankly, if there was going to be a 5th enduro, I think the largest portion of the fan base would likely vote for Road America for that, not Indy.
I hope the WEC gets Indy here soon enough, and IMSA can be freed up to go to a more attractive venue, a more inspiring circuit, instead. (I honestly have a hard time seeing the point of running a roval that doesn't use any of the oval's banked turns.)
And back in 2022, they ran 12 round, plus that Qualifying Race at Daytona.
As for running time, I took a look back at old IMSA, just for the heck of it.
Even my ideal calendar would be well under the record figure from 1983.
Same as 2024
Kinda disappointing. It seems like they are doing the same tracks over and over and over. Was really hoping to see imsa in person at cota eventually, since I doubt WEC will pick us again next year with all the american track choices and only 1 spot. This makes 3 years in a row now imsa havent put us in the calendar.
Edit: Plus... are they serious? No gtp at canadian tire again?? They can squeeze gtp on some tiny technical track like long beach but have to omit them for canadian tire?? LMP2 is getting stale, I really hope they put the next generation of lesser prototypes replacing that class into effect soon. Watching an entire class of just a single car make isnt nearly as interesting to me.
IMSA hasn't been to Austin since 2017. They switched to Mid Ohio in 2018.
The WEC was at Austin in in 2020 and is back this year. Austin is the only Grade 1 circuit, so I'm kind of suspicious the WEC will stay there, unless Indy becomes available to pick up, which I wouldn't mind. I'd rather see IMSA someplace else.
I certainly want to see the GTPs back at Mosport, too, but I will point out that only 2 of the 4 classes will be at Long Beach. So it's not like they're taking the full field.
I'm more concerned about them trying to run in downtown Detroit.
As for why Long Beach? Riverside doesn't exist anymore and Willow Springs is considered to be too far out in the boonies.
No issues with the decisions. The idea to try to give the FIA and WEC heads up and hopefully get them to avoid conflicts next year is smart in my opinion. Leaving the GTPs out of the Canadian round as a cost control factor with the addition of Indianapolis in 2024 and 2025 is fine. And the LMP2 gets a headliner opportunity. On Lime Rock, I think it comes down to VIR vs Lime Rock and VIR is a much longer and interesting track from both a competitor and spectator standpoint.
Lime rock is a perfect GT race and VIR should have GTP and GT. The GTP going through the roller coaster would be awesome.
Trouble is, there are many more people up northeast, and Mid Ohio is out, too.
And like most, I just don't especially care that LMP2 gets a "headliner".
reading between the lines. indy pays more money than lime rock or mosport. so if it doesn’t make sense to you, thats why it makes sense to them. huge shame
No lime rock park is dumb
I may be in the minority, but I really don't like the season ending with an endurance race at Atlanta. Perhaps LMP3 not being in the mix will make it less so, but the circuit is just too small for so many cars of varying speeds. Between that - and the visibility at/after sunset - it's more like the IMSA version of the chase in "The French Connection" than a proper race, by my standards: if I wanted to watch that kind of "edge of my seat" frenzy, I'd go to a demolition derby.
I'd much rather see things end at Road America (though weather could be an issue), or a swap with an Atlanta sprint in the spring/Sebring finale: lots more room for endurance racing, at either.
First off, good luck building up a new event like PLM at a different venue.
I think you forget just how sinuous the layout at Sebring really is. So even though it's longer (3.7 mi vs 2.54), there's a lot more to it.
Dealing with traffic between Cunningham and Tower is difficult. Because the road eases to the right just before it, Bishop is only single-line. And we've seen that guys can't even seem to deal with traffic quite right going through Fangio in the last several years, even with that right/left being much more of a "straight" than it was in the old days. (I mean, if driving standards have gotten that bad, I'm not sure a change of venue is the answer.)
Even with the new Turn 10, the back stretch at Road Atlanta is still almost certainly longer than the Ulmann Straight at Sebring, by more than 1,000 ft. And given the bumps and instant narrowing at the exit, I'd have to say that negotiating traffic at T1 at Road Atlanta is less sketchy than T1 at Sebring.
A Prototype can pass a GT around the outside of T4 at Road Atlanta, and T6 is banked, which helps with traffic mitigation as well. On the other hand, at Sebring, you cna't do a whole lot through T3/4/5. And T11-12 at Road Atlanta doesn't have the bumps of Sunset at Sebring.
Not to mention, take a look at the record average lap speeds:
Old LMP1 - Sebring: 1:43.195, 129.076 mph (2008); Road Atlanta: 1:06.242, 138.039 mph (2008)
DPI - Sebring: 1:45.166, 126.431 mph (2022); Road Atlanta: 1:08.412, 133.661 mph (2020)
New GTP - Sebring: 1:45.836, 125.855 mph (2023); Road Atlanta: 1:09.671, 131.245 mph (2023)
Right now, we only have a sample size of 1 with the GTPs, so I expect the margin to widen back out some. But anyway, it says something when a track that's more than a mile shorter is the better part of 10 mph faster on average speed.
@@Villoresi For me, "shorter - yet faster" is a big part of the issue: the race is too chaotic for my taste, due to an all-classes, FIFTY-EIGHT(!) car field in 2023. IMO, Atlanta would a great track for a pair of separate prototype and GT sprint races - not an all-in season endurance finale.
I don't expect them to change it - I just don't like it, as configured. Thanks for all of the detailed info.
@@donholl There were only 52 starters for the 2023 PLM.
Honestly, I'm far more worried about the potential "chaos" of an enduro at a track like Laguna Seca (which hosted 4- and 6-hour events for the ALMS) or the Indy Roval (has a 6-hour this year). In both cases last year, they got away with a lot of stuff that easily could have resulted in more cautions, but didn't.
What I mean, is, you had a lot of erratic jinks and things going on, or guys pulling back on after a spin, and then tagging somebody else at the very next corner. Or a GT car charging a slower corner and tagging an LMP3.
Conversely, watching the early stages of the 2023 PLM, again, you have a few moments of dumb driving and/or inexperience showing. The pace laps and opening bit were on a track with visible damp patches, and under those conditions, all bets are kind of off. Still, most of the driving on a lap-in, lap-out basis was actually pretty clean.
Having fewer harsh braking/compression zones, which also means having a faster average lap speed, means fewer opportunities for big punts. And it's fewer chances for the most severe crossover of the relative strengths and weaknesses of Prototypes vs GTs.
Back in the '80s, they ran 500-km races at Road Atlanta, with as many as 59 starters. And I feel pretty darn safe in saying that the speed differential between the old GTPs and the GTU cars was greater than GTP to GTD.
It's interesting as well, that through the ALMS and current IMSA era, it seems like the average race speed has generally tended to be more stable year-on-year at Road Atlanta than at Sebring.
And something extra to keep in mind with Road America is that, for most of the lap, it's only 30 ft wide between the white lines. At most every other permanent circuit they go to, it's at least 36 ft.
Don't get me wrong, I'd vastly prefer an enduro at RA compared to Indy, but the "safety margin" of that track compared to a Sebring or Road Atlanta isn't necessarily as great as you seem to think.
This all has gotten me a bit curious. So, how would you view a 6-hour race at Mosport, which IMSA did back in the '80s? (They also did a 6-hour at Mid Ohio back then.)
And thanks. I try to do my research on the subject.
No Lime Rock again, we lost that track for a garbage roval with no banking and a single-car wide track in Detriot that will produce nothing but a wreckfest. Send them to Lime Rock and Charlotte instead on sprints instead of trying to make Indianapolis relevant for endurance racing.
I don’t like sprint races. I’d honestly prefer if IMSA just does a 7-8 race schedule of all endurance races
Check out the WEC
@@cw3479 I watch that too
That doesn't keep the series fresh enough in people's minds throughout the season. Also, there just aren't tracks that are really good for the longer races in a number of the places you'd actually want those races to be (Riverside is long gone for one). At the same time, there are still more than 7-8 great, classic road courses in the US & Canada that are suitable for these machines to run on.
Now, if only IMSA would just get back to running at more of them.
Sorry i ment given penske a big pay day so sorry
Doonan is a ass giving perspective a big pay day on that stupid track. Watch because of it Porsche is going to get favorable bop. Because Porsche has to win. Panos is turning over in his grave dump lmsa and bring back American Leman the real golden age.
Sorry it was sepoes too be penske pay day