It would be fun if they added a real threat mechanic to this game that you could play around. It would open up a whole new dimension of build crafting.
There is a threat mechanic but it is never really explained as concisely as it is in other games, it's just always rolling in the background. It doesn't help that this threat table appears to be inconsistent as well.
@@vadim6656 i mean ... for "most" content in the game going by high toughness works usually. But yea .. not so much about aggro-generation but pretty much dice-rolling for every attack on a mob who gets aggro, with toughness giving a bonus to the roll. At least thats the most simple way to describe it
Hey, your videos made me try out Guardian and now I ended up actually liking it a lot. I was planning to use my 5th character slot for Warrior, since Guardian seemed to be slow and boring, but then I watched some of your videos and decided to test the class on the PvP lobby. Oh my god, it's so cool, especially the Firebrand. I never knew a class could make me really like the axe, my least favorite classic medieval weapon. You changed my GW2 mentality and I hope it's for the better. And sorry, Warrior. Maybe you'll be my eventual 6th character slot. I ain't willing to give up on Engi, Ranger, Ele or Rev, and you didn't look as cool as an all-burning Paladin/Cleric. Maybe next time, I liked your Berserker skills.
AHH thank goodness for this video. I've been looking to branch out from just dps in raids, and had found Scrapper. Though, honestly, the only reason I found it was because it seems to be one of the few classes that people even talk about its tank potential? And more of a good self sustain. I hear a lot of chrono tanks in general of course, as you mentioned it was kind of their thing alone for a while, but otherwise, at least in my findings, other classes don't tend to get as much of a shoutout for their potential, at least to a "noob" like me (in the sense that they give SPECIFIC options in the build). For example, scrapper literally has the tank tag on snowcrows (actually now I see 5 with the tag now), so that's what I had looked at so I had a solid starting point. I saw some people in the comments asking for some links to builds, and I second that, I would love to see more tank focused builds out there for people to find easily! I really have been loving trying my hand at it, so far I have done tanking in wing 1, when highest toughness plays a roll, and even in other wings if our tank dies, I have been the one to take over and at least keep us alive for a little bit longer hahaha. Quite exhilirating!
I know anet's goal going into GW2 (and even in GW1, i think?) was to eliminate the role trinity, but considering how they've slowly slipped into it anyway (kind of), I hope they embrace it in GW3. Not to the extent of FF14 or WoW, but I would like to see individual roles a little more defined. Also, it's a tragedy that Necro Death Magic minions aren't a viable tank build. Minions got forced into a defensive option in the move from GW1 to 2, so I think a natural extension of that idea would be to make it a tank build. Give one of the minions a good taunt (Shade or Flesh Golem?), and let Death Magic transfer more damage to your minions while Blood Magic gives more options to manage their (and your) health? Maybe give Reaper some more tank options since "Rise!" would work well with a minion tank build? Idk. I'm just kinda disappointed in Necro's minions. They're very...there's room for everyone, let's just say that.
they should make necromancers minions more like demonlogy warlock from WoW ( not appearance ) the way the mechanics work. it shouldn't be ofcourse a copy paste, but more use of minions using them/saccrificing and shorter cd to make the game play fluent. They can rework death magic more further around this while the core mechanic of the new minion use is working
I get that they don't have classic tanking. It often forces all class's into classic roles and everyone only max stats for their role. It leaves less variety to the players in groups. Also many feel it too unrealistic that an enemy decide you are more of a threat because you are yelling or insulting them.
I actually like how GW2 did this! I wish they had a more consistent need for tanking but after trying out final fantasy I changed my opinion on how tanking should be added into the game. Tbh it was a giant let down, I felt like once the tank was there you really couldn’t die as a DPS as long as the healer was healing the tank consistently. Kind of just led to a boring experience in my opinion I felt like in the average game there was no real danger.
Yeah I have done a *littttle* bit of raiding in 14 and it wasn’t all that interesting as a healer - I just focused on DPS for the most part. The damage cadence of the early raids was really slow and underwhelming.
I would have mentioned soulbeast here. The classic soulbeast handkite build is perfectly capable of serving as a tank when needed, and can be used to give alacrity, stability, healing, and stance effects to allies. Likewise, druid tanking has been used on numerous bosses in the game's history. Untamed is not the only ranger tank option.
Every single class/spec *can* tank - especially under those certain circumstances of toughness. This was to give a brief showcase of certain elite specs that focus more on CC, Blocks, or other defensive options as tanking is so inconsistent and flexible. I already have two other videos on healers and DPS, of which Druid and Soulbeast would be explained respectively.
@@KROOF if CC, blocks, and defensive options are the qualifying criteria then I absolutely would have mentioned druid and soulbeast, especially soulbeast. Its pet merges offer it more than just DPS. Unorthodox for sure, but it's not hard to make an alac soulbeast tank.
Even before that changes that Anet made, tanking in SWToR vs GW2 is completely different. I was just starting to learn the Chrono-minstrel tank when Anet decided to change things. Had just completed Vale then, my group disbanded and shortly after, things changed within game. I also had just completed out full minstrels gear for tanking as well. Now, I want nothing to do with tanking in GW2. Back in the day, wanted to learn it, not any more.
Kroof! Keep up the tank videos, I feel like anet may actually look more into "tanking" as a semi consistent mechanic and there's nobody better to get us there than you! Articulate, passionate bout the game, creative, analytical - phenomenal content. Always look forward to your takes, and I hope anet does too.
I think that tanking/control +breakbar damage should be an archetype just like "offensive support" or "dps" In my perfect world, breakbars would be hard to break without dedicated weapons or builds that are a DPS loss.
Do you have a Video where you show your settings? I see not so much Aoes on the ground than my me. Its look more easy to see what happens whats to dodge.
Is it possible to tank in GW2 without final end game gear? I was playing ESO as a tank mostly and was interested in playing Chronomancer as a tank... But now I'm realizing that the majority of damage seems to come from the Agony damage... So the only way to survive as a tank seems like you'd have to get as much Agony Resistances as possible. So is it completely nonviable to try to play as a tank until you get full Ascendant gear and high level Agony Resistance?
Agony damage comes from Fractals. And in fractals, tanks are useless, because there is no tank mechanics. So agony have nothing to do with tanking since it doesn't exist outside of fractals, i think you're confused.
@@toddwittie4421 no, there's no tanking in fractals. Only times you'll find tanking needed are in raids and strikes, but not all are toughness based. Toughness helps a lot though
To me there is only one choice for Heavy Armor in all aspects of the game. GUARDIAN. You can out play any other class in PvP, WvW, Dungeons and Open World. If you have even a general knowledge of the class you can roll through every content of the game with ease. Especially in the new expansions with all the condition mob damage you get from even basic enemy npc's you have to either become one of the elite level player for other classes or just roll a Guardian. I just started playing again from back before the expansions and I was shocked at the difference in play; especially in the Open World. I am trying out the Revenant but still don't have enough Heroic Points for the Elite skills yet. I am using two swords and Hammer for my playthrough and I think it is very fun. Shiro and Dwarf is my choice I like and I am getting better at it but still the skill cap is very prominent between Guardian and Revenant. I usually only play Thief (D/D; Bow) so it was a change for me to start out with this time. I kind of wanted to try some Smashers and chose Guardian first. It was actually king of boring to play. You can pretty much stand there and thrash everything with minimal threat. Warrior felt like a Heavy Armor Thief with burst windows and then try and survive windows (I like stealth so Thief is better for me). Now Guardian felt like a classic Heavy Armor Juggernaut you play in every other MMO out there. It felt complete and very stable. You can pretty much ignore the mob and do your optimal rotation. I mean yes there are the Elite mobs who takes more effort. Other then that it is just get on do your quest with no effort and when you see a Zerg latch on and go for a casual stroll through the country side. Ok to be completely honest it was very fun to steam roll on your Guardian after you got on your Thief and did Heart of Thorn area while feeling like a complete idiot for dying a thousand times because you kind of suck right now. I have to rebuild my muscle memory again for Thief. Rev actually felt second best in play/survivability for HoT and PoF so far. Warrior's need some help I think. It felt like a medium armor class. These are my personal limited experience in new content opinion.
they should make necromancers minions more like demonlogy warlock from WoW ( not appearance ) the way the mechanics work. it shouldn't be ofcourse a copy paste, but more use of minions using them/saccrificing and shorter cd to make the game play fluent. They can rework death magic more further around this while the core mechanic of the new minion use is working
Matthias moves around to far enemies, Samarog fixates based on furthest away, Mai Trin… I really don’t know what she goes off of and Scarlet is just stationary. A wide range of showing off the various methods used to calculate who is “tanking.”
1:42 "Toughness tanking was more consistent in raids ca. 2016, but has since been scrapped in more current encounter designs" Not entirely accurate W5 release November 2017. If you consider W1 2/3 Bosses are toughness based, W2 has no toughness based tanking, W3 has both Boss encounters as toughness, W4 has 1/4 Toughness Based encounter. So thats 5/11 Proper Boss encounters that are Toughness Based prior to W5 Release. 2/3 statues in W5 are toughness Based, so is Dhuum, In W6 Twin largos are toughness Based and in W7 you have both Adina and Sabir toughness Based so saying it has been scrapped when you talk about raids is just not accurate, nor consistent in raids when its not even half of the Actual Bosses in the time you mentioned. Edit: As well as The tank identity you talk about is not something you really have in GW2 and something initially planned to avoid. GW2 is not your WoW or FF14 in terms of role distribution so criticizing a lack of tank identity is pointless 6:13 "herald and revenant might be overlooked in their tanking abilities for some" is also wrong. Both have access to incredible lifesteal with Dance of Death. Having alacrity Revs tanking or heal heralds or similar builds is nothing too surprising. In my opinion this video is more a "i wish they would make taunt and aggro generation the norm in Guild wars like its in the other MMO i played" than a Choosing your tank and just not a well made video for that topic.
You wrote so much for no reason. I’m going to need you to re-read the very first quote you wrote in your comment. I wonder what “more current encounter designs” could mean…. Strike missions?? Surely not…. ;-; Also I know tanking is not traditional that’s the whole point of this video - to explain how unconventional it is - which in turn better prepares players who are looking to tank. Also, I’m more than welcome to give opinions on how a role functions or does not function in gameplay - I’m not just a google search bar.
@@KROOF You do know that both Kaineng Overlook and New Old Lion's Court strikes there are tanking where the bosses aggro the closest player? Both strikes were released 2022 so I think there actually is tanking in more current encounter designs 😁
Kroof my dear. Taunt tanking do not exist in any reliable form in GW2. It is very clear that taunt tanking it will never be added by designers to the game. Moreover tanking is so niche that it should not be consider a role at all in my opionion. I think you are misleading new players unfortunately. They will not find tanking playstyle present (or viable) in GW2. It is cute that you are on your personal crusade to praise tanking playstyle though. No one will benefit from it sadly :
It literally isn’t misleading if I’m informing of the reality of endgame tanking… Literally talking about the inconsistency and the random elements. Do better babes.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro & Tanking Definition
2:35 - Warrior
4:06 - Guardian
5:10 - Revenant
6:25 - Ranger
7:30 - Engineer
8:15 - Mesmer
9:33 - Wrap-up & Hopes
11:02 - Outro
Wait there are tanks in guild wars 2 now?
Kinda wish the game had actual tanks. Like other mmos. Mostly because I just don’t like being attacked as a squishy dps
It would be fun if they added a real threat mechanic to this game that you could play around. It would open up a whole new dimension of build crafting.
There is a threat mechanic but it is never really explained as concisely as it is in other games, it's just always rolling in the background. It doesn't help that this threat table appears to be inconsistent as well.
theres only few encounters that have a tanking mechanic and that is based on a toughness stat, so yeah... not much of a threat generation in gw2
@@BeowulfGaming aww that's disappointing I thought guild wars 2 had actual tanks now...and holy trinity
@@vadim6656 i mean ... for "most" content in the game going by high toughness works usually.
But yea .. not so much about aggro-generation but pretty much dice-rolling for every attack on a mob who gets aggro, with toughness giving a bonus to the roll.
At least thats the most simple way to describe it
It would be cool to add an example build link for each spec in the description for new players :D
This is such a good video, love that you made this series!!
Hey, your videos made me try out Guardian and now I ended up actually liking it a lot. I was planning to use my 5th character slot for Warrior, since Guardian seemed to be slow and boring, but then I watched some of your videos and decided to test the class on the PvP lobby. Oh my god, it's so cool, especially the Firebrand. I never knew a class could make me really like the axe, my least favorite classic medieval weapon. You changed my GW2 mentality and I hope it's for the better.
And sorry, Warrior. Maybe you'll be my eventual 6th character slot. I ain't willing to give up on Engi, Ranger, Ele or Rev, and you didn't look as cool as an all-burning Paladin/Cleric. Maybe next time, I liked your Berserker skills.
AHH thank goodness for this video. I've been looking to branch out from just dps in raids, and had found Scrapper. Though, honestly, the only reason I found it was because it seems to be one of the few classes that people even talk about its tank potential? And more of a good self sustain. I hear a lot of chrono tanks in general of course, as you mentioned it was kind of their thing alone for a while, but otherwise, at least in my findings, other classes don't tend to get as much of a shoutout for their potential, at least to a "noob" like me (in the sense that they give SPECIFIC options in the build). For example, scrapper literally has the tank tag on snowcrows (actually now I see 5 with the tag now), so that's what I had looked at so I had a solid starting point. I saw some people in the comments asking for some links to builds, and I second that, I would love to see more tank focused builds out there for people to find easily!
I really have been loving trying my hand at it, so far I have done tanking in wing 1, when highest toughness plays a roll, and even in other wings if our tank dies, I have been the one to take over and at least keep us alive for a little bit longer hahaha. Quite exhilirating!
Amazing content. Did not know we needed it, but it is very welcome. Keep it up!
I've had some success with tank builds on my Staff Daredevil, Sword/Focus Weaver, and Greatsword Reaper.
I know anet's goal going into GW2 (and even in GW1, i think?) was to eliminate the role trinity, but considering how they've slowly slipped into it anyway (kind of), I hope they embrace it in GW3. Not to the extent of FF14 or WoW, but I would like to see individual roles a little more defined.
Also, it's a tragedy that Necro Death Magic minions aren't a viable tank build. Minions got forced into a defensive option in the move from GW1 to 2, so I think a natural extension of that idea would be to make it a tank build. Give one of the minions a good taunt (Shade or Flesh Golem?), and let Death Magic transfer more damage to your minions while Blood Magic gives more options to manage their (and your) health? Maybe give Reaper some more tank options since "Rise!" would work well with a minion tank build? Idk. I'm just kinda disappointed in Necro's minions. They're very...there's room for everyone, let's just say that.
they should make necromancers minions more like demonlogy warlock from WoW ( not appearance ) the way the mechanics work.
it shouldn't be ofcourse a copy paste, but more use of minions using them/saccrificing and shorter cd to make the game play fluent.
They can rework death magic more further around this while the core mechanic of the new minion use is working
@@drios8809 Not a big fan of summoning monster just to make them explode
I get that they don't have classic tanking. It often forces all class's into classic roles and everyone only max stats for their role. It leaves less variety to the players in groups.
Also many feel it too unrealistic that an enemy decide you are more of a threat because you are yelling or insulting them.
I actually like how GW2 did this! I wish they had a more consistent need for tanking but after trying out final fantasy I changed my opinion on how tanking should be added into the game. Tbh it was a giant let down, I felt like once the tank was there you really couldn’t die as a DPS as long as the healer was healing the tank consistently. Kind of just led to a boring experience in my opinion I felt like in the average game there was no real danger.
Yeah I have done a *littttle* bit of raiding in 14 and it wasn’t all that interesting as a healer - I just focused on DPS for the most part. The damage cadence of the early raids was really slow and underwhelming.
Slight correction with scrapper: I believe Hammer 4 is a block skill as well.
TEA
I would have mentioned soulbeast here.
The classic soulbeast handkite build is perfectly capable of serving as a tank when needed, and can be used to give alacrity, stability, healing, and stance effects to allies. Likewise, druid tanking has been used on numerous bosses in the game's history. Untamed is not the only ranger tank option.
Every single class/spec *can* tank - especially under those certain circumstances of toughness. This was to give a brief showcase of certain elite specs that focus more on CC, Blocks, or other defensive options as tanking is so inconsistent and flexible.
I already have two other videos on healers and DPS, of which Druid and Soulbeast would be explained respectively.
@@KROOF if CC, blocks, and defensive options are the qualifying criteria then I absolutely would have mentioned druid and soulbeast, especially soulbeast. Its pet merges offer it more than just DPS. Unorthodox for sure, but it's not hard to make an alac soulbeast tank.
Even before that changes that Anet made, tanking in SWToR vs GW2 is completely different. I was just starting to learn the Chrono-minstrel tank when Anet decided to change things. Had just completed Vale then, my group disbanded and shortly after, things changed within game. I also had just completed out full minstrels gear for tanking as well. Now, I want nothing to do with tanking in GW2. Back in the day, wanted to learn it, not any more.
Tanking in swtor was alot of fun
tanking in swtor was legit during release and hutt cartel
Kroof! Keep up the tank videos, I feel like anet may actually look more into "tanking" as a semi consistent mechanic and there's nobody better to get us there than you!
Articulate, passionate bout the game, creative, analytical - phenomenal content.
Always look forward to your takes, and I hope anet does too.
I think that tanking/control +breakbar damage should be an archetype just like "offensive support" or "dps"
In my perfect world, breakbars would be hard to break without dedicated weapons or builds that are a DPS loss.
I think you're forgetting Vindi. Vindi can easily tank and has decent boon share. As well as adds boon uptime with it's dodge.
Awesome input and video ;)
I will repeat my self... but what ever... OH...! THAT VOICE!
If you add everything to everyone what difference will be there between classes? Only shiny looks...
Do you have a Video where you show your settings?
I see not so much Aoes on the ground than my me. Its look more easy to see what happens whats to dodge.
Is it possible to tank in GW2 without final end game gear?
I was playing ESO as a tank mostly and was interested in playing Chronomancer as a tank...
But now I'm realizing that the majority of damage seems to come from the Agony damage... So the only way to survive as a tank seems like you'd have to get as much Agony Resistances as possible.
So is it completely nonviable to try to play as a tank until you get full Ascendant gear and high level Agony Resistance?
Agony damage comes from Fractals. And in fractals, tanks are useless, because there is no tank mechanics.
So agony have nothing to do with tanking since it doesn't exist outside of fractals, i think you're confused.
@@demokdawa they don't even use the Toughness aggro mechanic in Fractals?
@@toddwittie4421 no, there's no tanking in fractals. Only times you'll find tanking needed are in raids and strikes, but not all are toughness based. Toughness helps a lot though
To me there is only one choice for Heavy Armor in all aspects of the game. GUARDIAN. You can out play any other class in PvP, WvW, Dungeons and Open World. If you have even a general knowledge of the class you can roll through every content of the game with ease. Especially in the new expansions with all the condition mob damage you get from even basic enemy npc's you have to either become one of the elite level player for other classes or just roll a Guardian. I just started playing again from back before the expansions and I was shocked at the difference in play; especially in the Open World. I am trying out the Revenant but still don't have enough Heroic Points for the Elite skills yet. I am using two swords and Hammer for my playthrough and I think it is very fun. Shiro and Dwarf is my choice I like and I am getting better at it but still the skill cap is very prominent between Guardian and Revenant. I usually only play Thief (D/D; Bow) so it was a change for me to start out with this time. I kind of wanted to try some Smashers and chose Guardian first. It was actually king of boring to play. You can pretty much stand there and thrash everything with minimal threat. Warrior felt like a Heavy Armor Thief with burst windows and then try and survive windows (I like stealth so Thief is better for me). Now Guardian felt like a classic Heavy Armor Juggernaut you play in every other MMO out there. It felt complete and very stable. You can pretty much ignore the mob and do your optimal rotation. I mean yes there are the Elite mobs who takes more effort. Other then that it is just get on do your quest with no effort and when you see a Zerg latch on and go for a casual stroll through the country side. Ok to be completely honest it was very fun to steam roll on your Guardian after you got on your Thief and did Heart of Thorn area while feeling like a complete idiot for dying a thousand times because you kind of suck right now. I have to rebuild my muscle memory again for Thief. Rev actually felt second best in play/survivability for HoT and PoF so far. Warrior's need some help I think. It felt like a medium armor class. These are my personal limited experience in new content opinion.
they should make necromancers minions more like demonlogy warlock from WoW ( not appearance ) the way the mechanics work.
it shouldn't be ofcourse a copy paste, but more use of minions using them/saccrificing and shorter cd to make the game play fluent.
They can rework death magic more further around this while the core mechanic of the new minion use is working
I would love for this game to have a real tanking class not just a 1 sec taunt.
you are amazing :)
What no necro?
Some of those fights in the video don't have any tank mechanics though?
Matthias moves around to far enemies, Samarog fixates based on furthest away, Mai Trin… I really don’t know what she goes off of and Scarlet is just stationary. A wide range of showing off the various methods used to calculate who is “tanking.”
1:42 "Toughness tanking was more consistent in raids ca. 2016, but has since been scrapped in more current encounter designs" Not entirely accurate W5 release November 2017. If you consider W1 2/3 Bosses are toughness based, W2 has no toughness based tanking, W3 has both Boss encounters as toughness, W4 has 1/4 Toughness Based encounter. So thats 5/11 Proper Boss encounters that are Toughness Based prior to W5 Release. 2/3 statues in W5 are toughness Based, so is Dhuum, In W6 Twin largos are toughness Based and in W7 you have both Adina and Sabir toughness Based so saying it has been scrapped when you talk about raids is just not accurate, nor consistent in raids when its not even half of the Actual Bosses in the time you mentioned.
Edit: As well as The tank identity you talk about is not something you really have in GW2 and something initially planned to avoid. GW2 is not your WoW or FF14 in terms of role distribution so criticizing a lack of tank identity is pointless
6:13 "herald and revenant might be overlooked in their tanking abilities for some" is also wrong. Both have access to incredible lifesteal with Dance of Death. Having alacrity Revs tanking or heal heralds or similar builds is nothing too surprising.
In my opinion this video is more a "i wish they would make taunt and aggro generation the norm in Guild wars like its in the other MMO i played" than a Choosing your tank and just not a well made video for that topic.
You wrote so much for no reason.
I’m going to need you to re-read the very first quote you wrote in your comment.
I wonder what “more current encounter designs” could mean…. Strike missions?? Surely not…. ;-;
Also I know tanking is not traditional that’s the whole point of this video - to explain how unconventional it is - which in turn better prepares players who are looking to tank.
Also, I’m more than welcome to give opinions on how a role functions or does not function in gameplay - I’m not just a google search bar.
@@KROOF You do know that both Kaineng Overlook and New Old Lion's Court strikes there are tanking where the bosses aggro the closest player?
Both strikes were released 2022 so I think there actually is tanking in more current encounter designs 😁
I wish Gw2 have tank healer dps like other’s mmo I wish you warrior and guardian the only tank on the game using the sword and shield
Noice vid
Kroof my dear. Taunt tanking do not exist in any reliable form in GW2. It is very clear that taunt tanking it will never be added by designers to the game. Moreover tanking is so niche that it should not be consider a role at all in my opionion. I think you are misleading new players unfortunately. They will not find tanking playstyle present (or viable) in GW2. It is cute that you are on your personal crusade to praise tanking playstyle though. No one will benefit from it sadly :
It literally isn’t misleading if I’m informing of the reality of endgame tanking…
Literally talking about the inconsistency and the random elements.
Do better babes.
@@KROOF which enemy has its aggro based on DPS?
@@IAmNotLloyd open world.
@@KROOF I was asking for an enemy, since you seem to be so confident that there are, i would like to know which enemy aggro is based on DPS.
@@IAmNotLloyd fam I’m going to just leave this here for you… LOL 😂
wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro
1st
Big wins
What no necro?
Yeah, reaper with blood magic, spite and that heal on self boon can solo 5 elites no problem.