How to Make Sure You're Not "That Guy"
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Nobody likes to play against "That Guy" at the shop or at conventions - are you sure you're not a "That Guy" where you play?
Official Tabletop Minions t-shirts: bit.ly/merchbunker
Help support the channel on Patreon: / tabletopminions
Follow Tabletop Minions on Twitter: / tabletopminions
Like Tabletop Minions on Facebook: / tabletopminions
Check out the website: www.tabletopminions.org
Chat, ask questions, and communicate with Atom - เกม
![[MPD직캠] 베이비몬스터 치키타 직캠 4K 'LIKE THAT' (BABYMONSTER CHIQUITA FanCam) | @MCOUNTDOWN_2024.6.13](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h99J4vWm7Ew/mqdefault.jpg)
Ah yes, the ones that always had “invincibility armor” and “invincibility armor breaking missiles” when they were kids playing pretend.
LOL! Guilty...
@@vbenthusiast I was worse though, I made BALANCED bullshit.
Stuff that could be beaten but it had *really* powerful attacks.
Invincibility armour breaking missiles only exist to break invisibility armour, let's not crap on those with enough inginuity to beat the simp who brought the "invincibility armour"
Also people "marking" buildings to spawn genestealers there by surprise just by putting dirt on them to camouflage it with the rest of dust on the table.
For me, it's not if I win or loose but how good my minis looked while doing it.
PmC I’m glad I’m not the only one
Same goes for me. I probably spend more time painting them than I do playing them, lol.
This
For me, the best times happen when something outlandish happens, or when utter carnage ensues. I loved it when a Tau commander single-handedly held up 2 wraithlords in close combat for 4 turns. I loved it when an Eversor Assassin rampaged through a Devastator squad. I liked it when (3rd edition) a single Necron warrior pop-shotted a Land Raider with a single shot on turn 1. Sometimes this comes off as an ass-hat attitude when I'm happy about my unit surviving and screwing up my opponent's game plan.
I only paint. Playing is for nerds.
Remember, Win at all Costs means the first cost is always fun
I disagree, when you and your opponent are both playing to win and it comes down to the wire who's going to win, those games are exhilarating
@@Kahulai1 yeah very true, I played a mate in a tourno the other day and he just said he was there for fun but I tabled him turn 2 hahaha, that's no fun. Its only fun if both are playing competitive or both for fun
@@solinvictus2094 Yeah, I think the sacrificing of fun happens when the two players have different wants from the game session. There are several games I only really like to play against skilled opponents, because I want that test of skill. There are others that are all about fun, or exploration, or just hanging out with friends; some of the same friends I'd never want to play a serious scenario of Silent Death with because they just don't Grok.
i like this. Can i steal it? T-shirt maybe?
@@solinvictus2094 I think he meant non competitive games I love playing competitive games aswell I find them more fun too!
You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation
That’s a really good point, and well-said. Maybe even a good idea for a video. Thanks for watching!
This doesn't make since to me, you really only find out if a person is competitive. This doesn't determine what kind of person this person is. I mean when you go to work people act differently then they do not at work or with friends. It's really just a bad way of looking at life if you are judging a person on an one hour game and not based on how they act outside the game seems silly.
You can absolutely learn a lot about a person “as a gamer” in an hour of casual play
@@TwilightxKnight13 Yeah, as a gamer you are pretty correct, though if they are having a bad day would be an exception, but he didn't put that qualifier.
I think it’s a good idea to add “generally speaking” before someone’s comment rather than “without exception”
"My father and me would play chess all the time, every sunday at 11, when i started, i lost, lost again, and lost again. Every time after the game he told me what i did wrong, and how i could improve. I never won, but each time i was closer and closer, i miss him"
This is a quote from my great grandfather, 1943 May. He wrote this in one of his many journals, i would have loved to meet him.
As Motorhead's Lemmy sang in Ace of Spades:
You win some, lose some, all the same to me.
The pleasure is to play, I don't share your greed
That’s why he’s referred to as “The Immortal Bard.” Thanks for watching!
Yes, Immortal Bard! RIP!!
\m/ Best comment I've read today.
Great analogy 👍
Dancing with the devil, playing on the high road, going with the flow, it’s all a game to me
That guy was my dad when I wanted to learn chess. He was that guy right up to my first victory. Then he never played me again.
Baaahahaha the Usurper should be an astrological sign
Also is your name a 2001 space odyssey reference ?
Toxic af
For my family it was Monopoly. My dad had no remorse. He destroyed everyone.
My dad was also relentless at chess. I played him for years and would always get obliterated. As a child to be beaten so badly it even put me in tears. However, as I aged, and improved and still lost I wasn't sad or afraid of losing. I also would always decline playing a second game. The first time I won my father was furious, he demanded a rematch, I declined which made him even angrier. We played less and less, here and there, I was a teenager. Eventually my mother and father divorced, so no more games. I still see him from time to time. One year for Christmas I brought him a very nice chess set. We played a game, I obliterated him in 12 moves. I was actually concerned as to how badly he played. He asked for a rematch and for the first time ever I broke my no rematch rule. I crushed him in the second game as well. We retired after that, I haven't played him in a few years now.
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"TO CRUSH THE ENEMY, TO SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU AND TO HEAR THE LAMENTATION OF THEIR WOMEN!"
That guy detected
You detected Conan tho
Conan: hey anyone wanna play? l4g any rules, chaos, eldar, necron... - 0 replies
Conan said that when he was still a brainwashed slave who had no friends or life though.
Bold of you to assume tabletop gamers have women
A good example of a good player is the guy I played a couple of weeks ago.
I'm fresh to 40k after nearly 20 years away from the tabletop and I met someone in a local game store and had a good game with him.
Bear in mind that I'm not a total noob, I did play before and quite a bit, but I've forgotten everything other than the terminology.
We had a chat and he said he was gonna bring a demons tournament list he's used to go against my necrons.
I got spanked, buuut, he didn't deep strike anything like he would normally, he walked everything up the table to give me a fighting chance of actually killing anything and gave me some very good tips and suggestions when I was gonna do something that may not have been the best plan.
It was a really fun game to play and up until he got a butt tonne of objectives in the 3rd turn I was actually ahead.
All in all he's just the sort of guy you want to play and a perfect example of how to NOT be that guy.
If I am far more experienced than a new player in ANY game I often set handicaps to (a) simplify the number of special rules the newer player needs to keep track of, and/or (b) hopefully keep the game challenging for both parties. (ie using power levels and mining my force while maxing theirs, giving an extra free unit, not deep striking an alpha strike unit, playing less elite forces and using more grunts).
At that point we can both just do our best and both feel challenged. As the game goes on and the player gets comfortable we can bring the rules back in. I often let them know the moves I would normally do so they understand what to expect in future matches, then give THEM the option to experience that now (which may end the game very fast), or take more time to get comfortable with the core mechanics
(ie: "normally I would deepstrike x unit and wipe y unit off the map because of X's abilities, but I will just set them up from table edge reserves unless your comfortable taking them on"). I find it lets them choose the learning curve rather than me forcing one on them which they often appreciate, and it forces me to play a bit differently which is fun in it's own way.
I have converted a LOT of non board/table-top gamers this way.
I was teaching a youngblood the basics of aos the other week. I was rolling so hot i was saving all my wounds and he was getting a little frustrated.
I apologised and asked him if he wanted me to use his dice instead of mine.
Same dice but that simple gesture made him not focus so much on the rolls and it helped him have more fun.
His mom appreciated it too which was nice to. I got a thankyou and we both had a good game.😁
Mom was banged: confirmed
@@snailvomit3477 probably cos that's how yer mum roles. Not all are boorish bints 😉
That's awesome man. People like you are the ones that grow the community.
Yeah, because... Empathy 😁
We were talking about this at our last session, some of my brothers friend's said they changed dice if they were having crap rolls haha. It's the luck of the draw really, like in any military engagement, you can plan, strategise, employ tactics. Nothing can change the random haphazard fate of reality. You can't change who your men are or how the universe manifests. Just have fun.
"It's not about how many bullets hit the target. It's about the amount of dakka." - my ork mek-maniak
Yay orks ftw!
I have just quoted you from this video in big letters at the top of my club's 'How to Be a Good Opponent' guide!
'Whether you win or lose a game of tiny little toy soldiers on a tabletop full of fake scenery doesn’t really matter to your life − or at least it shouldn’t.' Uncle Atom
What is included in this "How to be a good opponent guide" ?
@@danpoole9016 quite a bit! But it's a manifesto to think over rather than a set of rules to remember. Plus it's aimed at the students I teach.
Here: goo.gl/3KxZ22
@@simonburn9063 Ok thank you. Its just that so people at my club are not the best of losers, or winners for that matter.
Do you teach your students how to play warhammer ?
@@danpoole9016 we do! Although the older students also play with and teach the new ones. And to be honest, the new game is so elegant it almost teaches itself. We do 40K and Kill Team, and also have a cupboard full of board games. We get about 30 students a week and it's great fun.
I'm not sure what I'd suggest to help you with your club - I assume it's a club of adults? For me it's quite straightforward to ensure my players act appropriately, 'cause I'm in charge and if they don't listen they're in trouble! As a couple of possible courses of action:
1. If there's someone ostensibly leading your club, maybe have a conversation with them about how to encourage higher standards in the group. We have a formal house rules document, which I'm sure would be as appropriate with adults as with children. Here's ours in case that's useful as a reference: goo.gl/NUej68
2. If option one isn't possible, maybe try getting more active in sharing content with other people in the club. As simple as saying, 'Hey, have you watched this guy Uncle Atom on TH-cam?' could potentially lead some people to any number of his very thoughtful videos on how to be a good hobbyist and gamer. Going further than this might be setting up a blog or Facebook group or something for the club - put out fun content that just gives the whole thing a more positive vibe, and throw into it some of this sort of material on gamesmanship.
That's some very rough thoughts, 'cause obviously I don't know your situation at all. I also realise you weren't actually asking for advice... but if any of that proves to be useful, then great!
"That Guy" downvoted the video
Russ Murphy lol 😝
Curse you That guy!
You mean: Those (5) guys..
🛎🛑
hahaha I was trying to figure out who the heck would down vote such a video!
Whenever I play a new person I throw tactics out the window. Also bring loads of either guardsmen/ boyz so they can rack up kills
That’s a super-good idea. Thanks for watching!
I don't know you... But I like you.
Ahh that old thing. Then da jump 40 boyz in their face and crush them! Muwahahahahaha... what?
Oh yeah, fielding an extremely killable army is a great idea. Doubly cool if you can press in on them so they feel that they have come back from the brink of doom.
I would enjoy playing you.
"If you're just letting people step on you, that's a different story."
Yeah, some people pay extra for that!
Hey fella, this is the internet. How dare you be a mature adult. Keep up the good work.
Actually "That Guys" are the reason I became more of a painter than an actual player! I have many beautifully painted units that have never stood on an actual battleboard!
#MeToo
when you roll three sixes, you are not supposed to say you are sorry, you are supposed to say "HAIL SATAN!"
Indeed, that was a mistake on my part. Thanks for watching!
I tend to sing iron maiden....
Yeah its a game like. I always am prepared to lose thats how you learn isn't it?
My brother and I call that the Doomsday Roll lol
I've been known to fist pump on a 6 from time to time...
I remember clearly the moment when I realised that my whole persona changed when I was loosing. Opened my eyes to the fact that we are meant to be having fun. It's all about character.
I completely agree! Personally, I want close games; like the CLOSEST games. They, to me are the most fun - even when I lose, I love it when a game comes down to the absolute wire, like with one unit on each side and it comes down to "oh, will he make the defense roll?!" or "who is going to get the first good hit in??!!". It makes the whole experience more entertaining; I really do not like curb-stomping someone just because my rolls happened to be hotter on that particular day, it makes for a really dull game imo. When bringing in new players, I oftentimes find it is fun to bring "bad" units, or just units that you don't usually bring - that way you don't have to COMPLETELY throw the match (tactics-wise), but it can give you a major handicap to overcome.
true dat
Don't play against Eldar with Marines then. My friend wipes me from the table by turn 2 every game. Eldar are painful to play against.
@@uglyduckling81 That is not a friend then. If I were him, I would tell you all my rules and give you tactical advice so that there would be no surprises. People don't help other folks in games thinking that their army has hidden information that only they know. Rules are open information and friendly games should always be a tutorial.
Lue Bangs Ah its not that all the time. We are both restarting playing after a long hiatus. Eldar are just monsters compared to Ultramarines.
Another friend also restarted with us and I managed to beat his Nids.
@@uglyduckling81 Both Smurfs and Bugs are very powerful armies. in the right hands.
My key takeaway here was “finish your game THEN go away and think about whether you played a that guy.” I know to my shame I have been a salty bugger if I have a stinking great loss and have, in the past, written someone off as a “that guy.” However after I went away, had a tea and a biscuit and generally calmed down I realised my opponent was quiet and got on with the business of ending the game (and me) as quickly as possible because it was my attitude that stank up the joint. I went back at a later date, apologised and had some rather fun grudge match times. Your video about anger and whether it is causing a problem was on point for this!
I suppose my long rambly point is; like Adam said, finish up put the name on a personal blacklist but make sure it’s the “for review” column until you can calm down and review the game and opponent with some detachment from your bloody nose!
Really great point!! Someone needed to say this. Let's say you were just being 'that other guy', which I've definitely been. Thanks so much!
Good on you for seeing that. I've seen that a lot from "casuals" which is in no way meant derogatory here. Thinking they don't care about winning but the moment things go south they get really shitty and then wonder why you just clean play your game to the end asap. A whole lot of the people who claim they don't care about winning, care a whole lot about losing.
Zero Yeah, I think it’s safe to say NO ONE likes to lose. I guess you’ll get some who like to role play a Saturday morning bumbling cartoon villain but in general you sit down to play a game there’s a greater or lesser portion of you that wants to win, and you have to learn to manage that before you automatically assume your opponent is that guy. A player could have had a bad day; perhaps, as you rightly point out, they are not quite as ok with losing as they think they are (I’ve been this!); you could just be suffering a bad match up (a hobby hero or casual type such as me vs someone just trying to keep their tournament game sharp. Don’t get me wrong “that guy” definitely exists and I have met him, but there’s other things that can cause a bad game to be mindful of.
I think that setting a "micro objective" when fighting a more skilled player is a great idea. Playing more skilled players really does help you up your game, if they're helpful and have a positive attitude.
stfu That Guy
@@gnadlaftehgary4257 if he was "That Guy" he wouldn't focus on being helpful and friendly
On the subject of "That guy" a former store manager said to me roughly 20 years ago, "The object of the game is to win. The *Point* of the game is for both players to have fun." If they're having a rough game I'm more than happy to bend the rules in their favour. At the end of the day it's just toy soldiers.
This
My second game of Infinity, I played a 'that guy,' he gave me a bad table side and built a list that directly counter mine. Argued every line of sight thing, and modifiers. Won in 2 turns. Made me hesitant to play with strangers.
I'm a narrative gamer, and as long as I get a good story out of it I couldn't care less how wrecked I get. On the other hand,my friend is a "that guy" in nearly every competitive activity. That's grand ,but in our Warhammer group he's the noob,so it's a strange experience
One might assume that this isn't an issue in D&D... I am sorry to say I have seen "That guy" across the table a number of times trying to "Win" D&D as a player or a DM.
How do you win as DM? As player I understand, but as DM?
You crush the will of your players, usually by taking inside knowledge of the players plans. Then adjusting your encounters to just ruin their plan regardless of how well they put it together.
As a good DM your encounters /dungeons etc should be a challenge based on the players level/skill. Going over the top to keep your players from winning an encounter is being that guy as a DM. Now sending them into an unwinnable fight because it pushes the narrative forward is different (as long as they can figure out to "win" means running away)
That guy in dnd is the player that always chooses themselves over the party. For example in my current party in a past campaign my friend decided to play a thief for the first time ever and consistently took the title of thief a little too literally and would constantly pocket loot and not split it with the rest of the party and we couldn’t say anything about it cuz player knowledge. It was rlly frustrating to just watch your friend be a dick like that. Also the player that gets their panties in a twist when they lose a fight or die because of the rolls being shit on their luck and then ruins the mood. I’ve had that problem in AOS too with my friend who I no longer play with because every single fucking roll no matter what it was as long as it wasn’t perfect would shit all over the game because it’s “based on luck and therefor requires so skill and sucks” but would always try and play with us anyway. Pretty annoying stuff
Usually "that guy" in DnD, and other roleplaying games, are the min/maxers.
Playing DnD to "win" experiences.
Player: Power gamers. Had a player with power build rogue who would spend the end of EVERY encounter trying to steel everyone else's loot (including magic weapons and unique items) so they could sell it and make more money than anyone else to the detriment of the entire party.
DM: Had one that only wanted the story told their way. Would only let you win if you solved the encounter/puzzle the way they wanted. Also liked to pick on specific players by forcing them them to be the butt of every humiliating moment then use it to justify NPC's never taking them seriously.
I've seen this in one of my D&D games lately: my character is more of a support. I keep other players alive and do just a little bit of damage to the bad guys. It also takes a couple of levels to get to something useful. There's this other player whose character does a boatload of damage straight away and he's been on my back nonstop about 'not pulling my weight'. I've talked about this with the DM and I'm seriously considering not healing his character when we get into a truly dangerous situation. The DM is also getting a little sick of his behaviour, so it could end up with either a character death or a player exit..
We healers know where true power lies. :)
@@LeCharles07 the DPS trys to kill.
The support decides who lives and who dies.
What a pain in the ass. That kind of behavior sucks even when you're getting paid at the time. Putting up with it during a game is not worth the grief.
Had a plauge doctor who was a very intimidating fellow, once a group of orcs came out and blocked our path in a forest, my plauge doctor stepped forward raised his walking stick and said in a damaged voice "quarantine" the orcs believing the party had the black death parted and let us by, my character is a pacifist and only attacks when himself or a paitent is threatened, beforehand everyone thought he was just a dead weight edgelord (he was victim to a warcrime and wears full garbe to hide his mutilated body)
Good indicator of nice games is, the fact that they do not end with the gameplay end, but with the discussion and analysis of what happened on the table.
If I'm playing a new player I will straight up tell them that their doing something wrong as they do it and let them take it back
I do the same as well
There is a limit to that as well. I experienced that with MtG and why I don’t play it. When I started I constantly got told I was playing wrong, how bad my deck list was, etc. Constructive feedback is valuable in doses. A new player is not going to suddenly become an expert. Give feedback in small chunks and always, always, always ask if they would like to hear it first. There are waaay too many people who, when providing feedback, do it in such a way that makes the recipient feel like an idiot.
@@TwilightxKnight13 I did not tell them what to run. I gave them tactics to better use what they had. I only gave them suggestions for models if they asked what to get next. I'm a heavy supporter of finding ways to win no matter what units you run. Because of that, I will gladly run horrible units and still be able to use them to good effects. I try to help others understand their rules and use their units, no matter what it is more efficiently.
The point is to ask them if they are interested in your “help” first. If you simply start telling them how to improve their play, which is the same thing is telling them what they are doing is wrong then you are also “that guy.” Most players do want advice, but not everyone, and not always. Keep in mind also that a lot of advice is based on personal bias and gaming philosophy and not everyone will agree with your advice.
I'd say only do so when they make a grieveously poor move or overlook a rule that is to their advantage.
I think it's best when you feel like you could have won even if you lost. When you severely out class your opponent, you should do your best to make them feel that way.
This is bang on. When anyone loses a game they should feel unlucky, not feel like they are bad at the game.
That you discus this type of subject is why I love your channel 👌🏻
Important subject in the community 😊👍🏻
I never throw a game. Ever. Not even with new players. I never set them up to win by handing it to them.
That said, I will help them. I will explain the rules they aren't familiar with. I'll point out tactical advantages they may wish to exploit. I will occasionally flat out tell them about something they could do to succeed that they aren't utilizing.
Throwing a game is not going to teach them how to play well. Tutoring them will. I may win, I may lose, but against a new player, the worst thing you can do, in my experience, is throw a game and give them a false sense of accomplishment. That way leads only to hurt feelings when they realize you threw the game and when other players table them because they're not as good as they thought they were.
If they beat me, they will know they earned it. In my experience that makes for a much happier new player.
Tutor, but never hand success over. It cheapens the accomplishment.
@@clinch4402 I think you may have misunderstood. I think they meant by not throwing a game they meant they won't intentionally make themselves lose. Losing due to some bad rolls is one thing, but intentionally doing something stupid or fudging rolls to lose is throwing the game.
Which I can understand, when I started out if I found my opponent was throwing the game intentionally I'd have been a bit annoyed. Now that doesn't mean I'd expect them to bring their tier one tournament list, but I'd still want them to play well and not just give me a win for being a newbie.
I'd hate if my enemy handed me over the win just cuz I'm a starter
@KT "throwing a game" is to lose by intent. To set oneself up to lose, on purpose. Even to cheat in order to lose.
Losing a game against a good opponent or due to bad die rolls, or even because of some kind of tactical or logistical mistake is something else entirely. That is merely a lost game. They happen all the time.
I'm not entirely clear where the misunderstanding is. I've been tabletop gaming for 30 years and have been having a blast doing it, and I've brought quite a fair number of new players into a fair few different games. When I was starting out, I did have people throw their games against me and I wasn't particularly happy about that. I won't do that to someone else who is just starting. To discover that all of those victories were hollow was not a very good feeling at all.
When I learned how to play chess, I was taught the game by a disabled veteran who was very, very good. He never once 'let me win'. I had to work for it. He helped me with the rules of the game, he even pointed my mistakes out to me as I was making them but he never once made an intentional mistake to allow me a victory. When I did win against him, it was awesome. There was a feeling of accomplishment there and I was proud of myself. If he had just let me win, that victory would not have been nearly as meaningful.
I lose games all the time. I have fun winning *or* losing... but I never lose by intent.
The new player's accomplishment of the first game is learning the rules and finding a game they like. Your accomplishment is getting someone else excited enough about your game that they want to spend lots of money and become a challenge to you. Anything else is kinda missing the point of an introduction scenario.
If you need something else from the game then give yourself a hard starting position. Maybe build yourself an army that is half the value of theirs and then try to win, or give your opponent perfect information about what you are thinking and what you might do on your turn, but really try to win. Create a scenario where it is nearly impossible for you to win on the board, but that you can score your performance and try to beat your previous score every time you play.
No doubt you know some folks who find a boot on their neck very invigorating, but when exploring a new game system not every player wants to face off against the full fury of 20 years of experience.
@@Walsfeo rats, you caught me! Here I was stepping on necks, hurting small animals and twirling my moustache and you soundly foiled me! Curses!
Did you miss the bit about tutoring? The bit about the difference between throwing a game and losing. The part about accomplishment?
Oh, but you found That Guy, didn't you, with no empathy, such a MONSTER he is because he won't give people a hollow victory they never asked for and probably don't want.
Here are things you didn't know...
I swap armies sometimes with newbies. We deploy then swap sides. I know, just dastardly of me.
My nephew learned exclusively from me. When he beat me, he was do proud of himself, and I was proud for him. Mine was his first handshake-- a Good Game handshake. Whoops, there's some left over boot marks on his neck I better brush off.
I don't play tournament lists except in tournaments. I don't run net builds. Ever. I build lists with stories to them, which tend not to be competitive by nature. I'm such a scoundrel!
As stated previously, I enjoy losing as much as I enjoy winning. Haha, you fell for my trap!
I am in a Kill Team Campaign where it is best if I play one game a cycle, perhaps two at most. We have a LOT of new players, new to the game in general in my area thanks to Kill Team. I play them, which is hurting my chances of victory and tanking my competitiveness in my list so that they have someone to play at all other than each other! But all I'm interested in is tying them to railroad tracks...
I played a guys first and second games ever. He crushed me on the rematch; bad die rolls for me, good tactics for him. We had a good laugh as my guys died horrible deaths. Now where's my giant laser beam shooter and strap down Bond Villain chair?
I played another beginner and a lucky shot took out a key model of mine which was going to cinch him the win. I could have pulled out in turn three. This guy has had terrible luck his first few games and finally he was winning for real! I kept my force on the table, adjusted my tactics to compensate for the loss and was soundly trounced. He won fair and square and was a very happy guy...which made me happy. But gosh if I seem to have misplaced my moustache wax.
There is no That Guy on my side if the screen for you to crusade against, friend. Just because I don't THROW (seems I need to be really, super, extra clear about that one word) a game doesn't make me That Guy.
And shame on you for the boot and neck crack...
On that note: you also have to make sure you lose graciously.
Being a "rage quitter" or just in general a "sore loser" will get you added to the black list too.
Some people take L's like a personal failure- I've been there. The sky was falling.
If you spend the whole game cussing your below-average dice or obsessing over a bad turn well into your opponents turn you take their fun out of the game and that mood quickly becomes contagious.
It's a hard habit to break, midgame fluster, but like you acknowledged if you want to get games in you have to take steps to improve your behavior before you're not only losing pickup games but are purposely not invited to tournaments as well.
I started Warhammer waay back when I was 11 or 12. I had bought a starter kit and built and painted them and I turned up to a store to play then multiple 'them guys' turned up and offered a game. He crushed me in my second game, then his mate offered me a game and same again. It was really crap when there's 3 guys all laughing and joking about crushing you when you never played before. It put me off and I left my miniatures collecting dust and breaking. When I was 15 I I was clearing out my room and I found them all ruined. I decided to get back into it and bought a new set got them ready and went to the store. I played good games where I was taught the basics and had fun. Since then I've enjoyed playing and it just goes to show how much of an impact those early games can have.
that intro with the battle sound effects and the dice rolling at the end has the same energy as the popcorn and soda commercials at the start of a movie and makes me want to play some games.
This reminds me of a customer who used to frequent the store I worked in years ago, no one would play him as he was a terrible winner and loser, would seal club new players then brag about it but when someone with experience played him he would generally get tabled.
One day he had been in for hours and no one would play him, taking one for the team I said I'd give him a game and try to keep it close to avoid any issues. We get to turn 3, he has a lucky round of shooting and becomes obnoxious, by the end of turn 5 I had tabled him, sometimes you just can't help some people sadly.
In one of my first Age of Sigmar games, I played against a guy who was using his new Khorne tournament list (I knew he was bringing that beforehand and was cool with it). By the end of turn 4 he'd tabled me, but at no point did I get any "that guy" vibes from him and it was a really fun game for both of us. He didn't brag about how well he was playing or bend any rules to his advantage, and he also helped me with rules and strategy.
Point is, I think if both players know what they're going into before the game starts, whether fresh faced or practicing for an upcoming tournament, then they should be able to reasonably adapt their approach to the situation. There's no need for the experienced player to let the new guy win, but if he has a friendly attitude about it then it helps not to discourage the newer player.
I feel like now everyone in Atom's area will be questioning if they're "that guy" after this. Also the Eldar call out was hilarious
There's nothing more annoying than playing against that guy who gloats and boasts so hard when they roll well or kill your units but then complain and moan when their units die. And you're so right, the enjoyment of your opponent is just as important as how much fun you are having. Too many people don't realize that.
Fantastic video. Had to share it. In the last two years 3 local shops have completely ended certain miniature games due to several of “that guy”s showing up and running off all of the players.
This is why I don't play 40k. I got a Start Collecting: Orkz, painted the boyz (badly) and went to my FLGS to learn and got stomped and told how bad orkz sucked. I thought, well there was $80 wasted, plus paints and time. Dude wouldn't even explain rules, just told me to read the rule book or read the Index and figure it out. It was a horrible experience. (I'm debating getting back into 40k with the new Codex out.)
A couple weeks later I played a game of Warmachine with an awesome Press Ganger who let me play with his army and took time to explain rules and generally had a great time. I was hooked. He explained why what I was thinking was generally a bad move but how in certain situations it could work. Let me take back moves that were awful so I could learn, etc.
Today, my Orkz are in the closet collecting dust and I enjoy playing my Cygnar Army and getting my son and wife into Warmahordes.
If my entire army is a ork stompa am I that guy
My favorite type of gamer is fun to play against while trying to win the game. At the end of the day, if both players can give a handshake (or an elbowbump, being 2020) and a "good game" afterwards, it was indeed a good game.
Haha, the ad before this was a politician talking about the midterms and then it cuts to you, "Let me tell you about that guy and why you don't want to be that guy."
I was playing in a 40K tournament several years ago and I was playing Imperial Guard. I was facing a Dark Angels player who had never faced ordinance and had his units nicely gathered into groups that fit neatly under the template. I asked if he had ever faced ordinance before and reminded him every turn (after the first, no one is perfect) if he really wanted his marines gathered that close together. It would have been so easy to drop shells on those units before they got to my crunchy guardsmen.
I felt better about losing to him after that.
I thought "that guy" was the guy that always brags about his commission painted army without anybody asking him about it, he'll just say out of nowhere "It's an awesome painted army huh? I only paid 1200 dollars for the commission nothing big."
And yes I have met someone like that who bragged about his Commission Imperial Guard army. like that.
Or how about "that guy" that rule checks everything just to find the slightest mistake, the smallest misinterpretation of the rules that he can use to make you undo a move so he doesnt become the loser?
That's a close cousin to "That Guy", commonly known as the "Humble Brag Guy" or, if you're not feeling all that nice at the moment, "The Clueless Ass With Too Much Money and Free Time".
@@TheRunesmythe He must really misuse his free time if he's to lazy to paint his own army.😂
I paint like 1 or 2 Tau fire warriors a week just because I like to play RDR2 right now.
Tch, bragging about an army like that when they didn’t even paint it themselves.
TheRunesmythe that sounds kinda salty. If a guy is a “hobby hero” he may have spent a lot of time on his minis and has really been looking forward to showing it off. If he isn’t getting the attention he’s expecting it’s a temptation to beg for it a bit. I don’t think that guy is necessarily being a turd.
I’ve just started getting back into this stuff as an adult after a few decades away( I used to love warhammer battle when I was a kid…. 2nd edition rules!) and I enjoyed this video- some really good points here that not only could be applied to tabletop gaming, but to many other aspects of life as well. Basically, if your “that guy” that has to make a show on everything because you’ve got an ego that needs stroking, then don’t be surprised that people walk away from you and even may even treat you as a something disgusting they’ve just stepped in.
I’ve experienced “that guy” at work, in sport, martial arts arts, or even just having a conversation in the pub. They never contribute anything to a successful outcome, but nearly always negatively impact the main objective of whatever it is your trying to achieve individually or as a team.
When I was getting back into playinv the lord of the rings SBG a few years ago a couple of great guys went out of their way to build up my skills and get me to tournaments etc. looking back, they took it easy on me but it was so cool of them to take the time and not just table me. Rekindled my love for the game. Thanks for the video, great topic!
*that* guy gave this video a dislike.
why'd you do that?
There's so much empathy in my gaming groups, but then we are British so 'sorry' is our most used word... 🤣 Great video fella!
Oh dear, I'm terribly sorry! Fingers crossed for your battleshock round old chap 😨
I thought it was the "f" word.. :o)
@@skarlocthewanderer1696 nah that's just Manchester
And Essex for fucks sake, sorry
@standardleft
* _Cries in American_
One of the best tabletop channel on TH-cam. That room you record in and the whole setting is just perfect.
I've completely left the table top hobby but I still love seeing these videos. Super honest and really great conversation points.
Unfortunately "that guy" is about 10 - 20% of the guys out there. One of the reasons I don't like to play in shops.
My experience has been closer to ~80-90%
Yup, I really respect people with empathy. It makes things fun, right off the bat.
Me and my Fiance just started playing at home with my collection of 40k armies ..as I've played it only slightly more than her I'm more aware of rules but have gone to great lengths to make balanced forces for us to play , with a few subtle nudges in her favour. She doesn't get easy wins , but gets fun close victorys without it turning into demoralising slog . Love the video , great insight into playing another person the right way
Really appreciate the time you take to make these helpful videos.
I feel like during the course of a game, if I get the scent of victory, I sometimes turn into "that guy". But I feel bad after.
come to think of it I often find myself having to balance three mind sets: The selfish mind; The Critical Mind; The Compassionate Mind. I understand that chaos and demonic forces don't really have compassion or empathy but still for the human to exist and get more game companions in the real world, one must make compromises.
Uncle Atom, I really dig your wisdom. Thanks for being a leader in this great hobby.
It's not how you win or lose, but whether you get to the finish with some semblance of your humanity remaining (hopefully). Top vid. There are so many people who can only live or have fun at others expense - something I still struggle to understand.
Most of "those people" will cheat, bully, or cajole one out of the fun of playing the game, at the expense of anyone else. I've known one, and it actually made me quit his gaming group.
Thankfully, I have fond memories of other games, other groups, and I know how to recognise "those players" and how to deal with them.
Thanks for addressing this, Uncle Atom, cheers.
I read a common thread with a lot of posts in that people say they will try to help the other player by telling them what they did wrong. That is certainly admirable, but always, always, always ask first if the other person is interested in hearing your feedback. Some people are not receptive to feedback, and sometimes people are not in the mood for it. Just like it’s important to ask if your opponent is wanting a serious competitive game vs a more casual game, it is important to ask them before you start railing about their “failures” as a player. Be courteous
This is a great video and I really enjoyed the message. Everyone who plays with other people needs to understand that having fun is more important than winning. I'm binge watching all of your videos. Great Content Uncle Atom! Thank you for creating it!
Thank you! Another excellent, thoughtful video.
I built up a Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought last year - converted it from a Penitent Engine and a Helbrute. Loved doing it and am very happy with the model, but I've shelved it except for big games, as I found it kept stomping through my opponent's army and it didn't feel very fair to use it.
Great advice! A good attitude goes a long way.
I remember playing as a noob against that guy. I was muhreens and he was necron. I just put in models and he completely counter picked me. Destroyed my land raiders in about 2 turns and I couldnt kill anything i went home angry and with a grudge
That’s why I like genestealers! Even if they counterpick you can make a load of aberrants emerge from the ground, behind a wall, and pick off their favourites.
Even if you lose, you get the satisfaction of bull rushing all of their obliterators and HQs 😈
Hey Atom! I just wanted to say that I am brand new to the Hobby pretty much (I had a Skaven battalion when I was a kid but I just wanted it for figures for Dungeons & Dragons and didn't ever play the game itself) and I just wanted to let you know that your videos are really helpful to me and have taught me lot. Keep up the good work!
I think it's great to have open and honest conversations about what kind of game you're looking for. One of my best friends is a *very* competitive player (not a dick, just competitive) while I am a very hobby oriented player. He and I have had times where we've said "I'm looking for a tournament practice game" or "I'm trying to get a more casual game in" and sometimes that means we play other people. What's important is that we both got to play the game we wanted.
100% agree about being welcoming and teaching towards new players!
We talk about a lot of these ideas in the game master panels that I've been on at conventions for roleplaying games (LARP and tabletop). Being a good player is about thinking about everyone's fun. Like, what can you do to make the game more fun for everyone. A guy that I play Killteam with, for example, roleplays his KT - does voices and everything. Even losing to him is a lot of fun :)
THis other fella I know? I don't play ANY games with him - even co-op. He's very unfun.
I've got a "that guy" at my local place. It's kinda just part of his personality to the point where if chance cost him a victory he's not having a good time. Example, Warcry game, he's got an "elite team" of chaos warriors, and basically I dropped him from 5 to two units on the field with gobbos mostly by luck. on round 3, my leader did 22 points of damage to his because I got my quad off and actually got a good set of hits. At that point, he wasn't happy. It was my third game, and I've been enjoying it all at least. ^^; Just gunna be rough I think once he gets a full list for big games.
Great vid, mate. I have seen so many Win-At-All-Costs players (we call 'em WAACers, locally) who just wore out their welcome in gaming groups in both tabletop games and RPGs by their total lack of emotional intelligence over the years, but you explained the dichotomy so well. I really just want to have fun and enjoy whatever game I'm playing, whether in a friendly or at a convention, so winning isn't the main thing and trying to help the other player/s to do so too is the best way to achieve that, IMO. I also found your point about teaching and supporting newbies to be especially important and particularly worthwhile to share. Keep the vids coming!
I think you nailed it. Playing to maximize your opponent’s enjoyment of the game has so many benefits both in/out of game. It’s just “good practice” on so many levels.
Nice project for TTM would be to come up with a anti Eldar strategy and finally get over his phobia of the xenos!!
I was That Gal for awhile, but only because my GW had a few That Guys, so I had to go to that level to try and get at least a few wins. Nowadays not so much, I'd rather mess around with thematic lists.
I just want to say thanks for making this video.
I was actually dissuade from playing Warhammer 40k for over 7 years because of this exact mentality with the players I had to play with at out local card shop. The only two heroic friends, who will remain anonymous, slowly convinced me during these last 7 years to instead help them paint (due to me being artsy fartsy) and play with them instead of the shop try hards. We now have 6 of us and I'm finally proud to say that I play instead of compete. The friends who are willing to sacrifice a super OP army for actual fun is what brought me back. We now try to recreate previous battles and scenarios that otherwise wouldn't be considered seriously. For example: 500 points of Ultra Marines vs 3000 points of Tyranids who are slowly drip fed into combat with random deployment. These random and fun games are desperately needed in my opinion.
TLDR: Good people make the game worth it; even if you lose. That's the key.
*Pachows intensify* 👊🏼💥
Mental Health comes in to this topic, i've worked with a client who 100% was that guy who needs to win, not a great player, only used Marines, but would use net decks and not tell his opponent anything about his army until the game required it, nor would he help.
with over 15 years experience i'm able to see traits of various mental health conditions in people that i play against.
Now i'm not saying this is a blanket excuse for every pleb that just likes to steam roll over everyone and win at all costs, but sometimes it maybe worth getting to know some of these guys a little bit (sure its a bit rude to flat out ask them "hey do you have mental problems")
In my clients case many eventual got to grips with who he was and would sometimes give him games and chat to him and help him to be a bit better, and in turn the group that he went to became more understanding of people with mental health, sadly there were a few who were angry he was even there.
also the winning as much as possible is an ok mantra to have, being competitive and relishing victory in work, sport or gaming is im my view perfectly natural. If a thing is your passion then embrace it in the right environment, avoid playing the noob, the casual, the narrative player or those weird crazy one trick obscure theme listers (me) and stick to the competitive circuit.
for some gaming maybe the only place that being good at something can be expressed, but 100% if you can be empathic as our mighty Uncle has suggested
You mentioned tournaments at the beginning, which is competitive games in a nutshell. It’s the non cheating „that guy“ environment, I love!
a good thing to remember in the overall tabletop hobby in general- meaning RPGs, card games, miniatures, etc.- is that when you're playing with people in a public setting, whether you realize it or not, you're acting as a sort of ambassador for the hobby and community as a whole. even in competitive games, be friendly and if new players need direction, help them out. just be cool.
There are teaching games, casual games, and competitive games. None of which call for "That Guy".
I was roommates with “That Guy”, some of my cards went missing.
The Emperor of Mankind his name was Horus too.
I always find when playing a game with tournament level players at my local shop they are always really nice about helping me understand strategies and rules, and even when I don't have the skill to win against them coming up with a clever play or overcoming a seemingly insurmountable obstacle feels like an accomplishment. Most people want others to get into games, more interest means more players and more shelf space for product.
As a new player to war games thanks for this video. I have experienced that guy in other board games that I have played when I first started. It would get to a point where I just gave up on a game before, even though there were two or three people in our meta that where trying to help me learn. But when you have 10 in a meta and almost all but two are only looking for very competitive tournaments and to practice for those its not fun. As you say all they want to do is take pride in the win. I have not experienced that in the local meta for the two war games that I am learning. Even the people that are competitive players, going to big tournaments, are very helpful. They might kick my butt and even hold back some, and i know this going into the game. What I love though is that they explain why they are doing things as we are playing and talk with me after the match about what I should or should not have done so that I can get better. As they put it more competition for them in a few months rather than loosing a noob for not having fun playing
Yeah I remember that guy -.- pretty new to the hobby and used Magnus and thousand sons to smite destroy me, rolling dice and telling me half my army was dead without explanation. And I forgot to move a unit and go to shooting phase and he’d say no you forgot so can’t move them.
Hmm ... I wonder what happens when two "That Guy"s meet ...
I absolutely hear you about not being rigid about the rules.
If someone forgot to deep strike their units, I'll let them retroactively do it.
If someone is over points by a small margin, I'll be fine with it.
If someone wants to use Legends, I will absolutely let them.
If someone is unsure of a rule I use, I will absolutely let them see it as written for themselves. (I would expect the other person to do the same for me)
And if someone is using proxies, then as long as they explain what is what, I am fine with it.
Just wanted to say I agree with you wholeheartedly. I used to be "that guy" but when someone pointed it out, I tried my best to not be "that guy". People were patient with me, and I play more for fun and the such and I think most would agree that I'm a more respectable person now (I never cheated though).
There is one point of disagreement though: if I roll 3 6's in a row, you best be thinking I'm about to jump for joy and do a mini celebration. I do have empathy for the other player, but if he rolls 3 6's, I fully expect him to enjoy that moment of luck. Because it's just that: luck.
I don't think inside my group anyone ever gets upset by the luck factor because we realize it is just rng, and honestly we like the luck factor. It's been the basis for more than one underdog battle to see through victory at the very least.
What if WE ARE the plastic miniatures!?!
Whoa, that deep. Thanks for watching!
What if gods are wargamers messing with us !!?!
Something a lot of "those guys" miss, is that if you help someone get better, your games are going to be better. Like, if you're trying to play at a really high level, bringing up and teaching opponents how to get stronger is going to make you better, and give you that higher level of play you're looking for.
When I learned to play Armada the people I played with routinely made it to local finals in tournaments and their attitude was just "learn aw you play" and they just crushed me game after game, it was suuuper demoralising for so long, it helped me get better but I think a slower introduction to games is better than the sink or swim mentality.
Thanks for the video!
I come from the fighting game community and I can't tell you how much this speaks to me.
I love competition, I love winning, but my slice of the community is populated almost entirely by That Guy. Even among people I consider friends, it's very hard to find someone who has any sense of easing up for the sake of a less-prepared opponent - or just for the sake of having a good time. I always keep a secondary character in mind - one that I know I'm not great with, but can have fun using - and bring them out when it becomes clear that my opponent doesn't stand a chance against my main. I find no joy in one-sided curb stomps, no matter which side of it I'm on. I extended this courtesy to others all the time, even in tournament settings (before the plague days,) but almost never found it reciprocated.
Not exactly a "that guy" moment, but when my friend "taught" me how to play 40K for the first time, he kept telling me the results of die rolls without explaining how we got there, and he was using his memory of models' stats to do the math. The result was A> I didn't learn much of anything, B> his memory was not flawless and C> also not accurate to 8th ed.
“That guy” can be encountered more often in certain systems. I play Gates of Antares and the community is so nice you do not find “that guy”.
Dude you should turn this into a podcast your voice is so good to listen to
90% of all the people at my local store are 'that guy', it really put a dent in my enjoyment for the game, I'm not put off tabletop gaming but to someone brand new to the area and wanting to make friends through gaming it could easily dissuade them, I've been out of tabletop gaming because of 'those guys' for about a year now so this video really resonates with me.
I feel like I have a friend for 11:25 minutes, yay
Tobias Butters My heart just broke in two!
+Truck Boi It shouldn't. Self-deprecating humor is a great way to deal with crippling depression.
@Wessel Teunis thanks bing
As a recovering "that guy" i'd love to hear your thoughts on getting out of that zone and recovering in the eyes of the community. I'm terrified to go play games right now as i think everyone hates me.
Bit late to the party here, but a good way would be to talk to the players you've played with in the past.
"Hey look, I've realised that I was being an ass. I'm sorry about that, and I'd love to have a game with you sometime.", something to that effect.
It might work, it might not, but it's a solid start. I've given "That Guys" a chance for doing precisely that, and every one of those games has been fun.
I've been teach my dad to play when I visit him at his house, and I always try to help coach him as he takes his turn. I try my best to give him advice, what units of mine to target, etc. I just try to help him when he asks, but I don't baby him. If he feels confident in his move I let him make it, if there's a trick he wants to try I let him. I play fair, and I keep my army as non-cheesy as possible, and he's taken a real shine to the game which was rough because my dad was always more a sports/outdoor kinda guy. I'm actually gonna sit down with him and have him put together his own units for the first time (Necrons) while I put together my new Space Marines from the new box set and have him feel that pride in a unit he built by himself. After that we're gonna paint and I hope he feels that same love for his little guys that I do my space marines. To me there's nothing better than bringing new blood into the hobby to enjoy it, and I've many a "that guy" ruin it for people
Again, thank you for your wisdom!
"Win At All Costs" can be shortened to "WAAC", which sounds like "wack". Probably describes "That Guy" perfectly