Worth noting is that the Dragon's Fury also technically has Situational Crits, since it does 3x damage against burning targets (same damage multiplier as crits)
@@orcashamudeluxeu567 not really because buildings take only true damage so 75 is base damage, the penalty is a damage reduction not a non crit penalty
The no random crit line is more of a "feeling balance" imo. Like you pointed out, a good amount of weapons that can't crit have some sort of way to give themselves crits. I personally would be way more upset playing around a back burner pyro's crit mechanic, just to die to random crits. Compared to dying to random crits from a stock Pyro. Or playing around a Demoknight's charge, just to die to a random crit from the eyelander.
It's like a valve trade mark Take csgo (now cs2), we have ak47 and awp both most op gun in csgo and am being specifically for t side , it's unbalanced but despite being broken ,it has become a part of game As ak is an assault rifle it's highly accurate on 1 shot and can headshot anyone across whole map with 100% first shot accuracy , making it most broken gun in csgo , as players have outplayer snipers with this gun That's same with tf2 , we have broken gun which suits as both frustrating and fun element of the game , and whenever companies tries to fix a broken thing they certainly ruin the whole game There are many examples
Sometimes I feel like Valve is going backwards instead of forwards but this video makes me realize that they do seem to be trying, even if it's misguided at times.
Someone who made an entire video about valve mentioned: "they are not scared to fuck up" Thats why it may feel they are misguided at times. But they definitely went a long way forwards. Too bad the bot creating community went on to kill such a title.
@@tezkyflex7304 It's true. Experimenting with weird balance choices to see what sticks is a pretty good method, and Valve made it work well for them back when they were actively updating the game. Unfortunately, it stops working when balance updates only come out once every few years. Instead of making a change, gathering feedback over the course of a few months, and adjusting the balance again until everything finally seems right, Valve breaks a weapon and leaves it like that. That being said, the state TF2's balance is currently stuck in is probably the best it has ever been, even if it's far from the game's full potential.
The Dragon's Fury is sadly just a very shoddily coded weapon. The fire rate is determined by a hidden item meter bar which is why resupply can make you shoot again immediately, and "impulse 101" just makes you go rapid fire. The projectile stops upon any collision with so many other entities when it shouldn't (such as just enemy projectiles), and the projectile itself doesn't even have any visual representation aside from a faint light or crit particles if it's crit boosted. That "fireball" seen from firing is just the muzzleflash created by the Dragon's Fury, always going up to a certain range and always assuming it can't be stopped or reflected. Heck, I'm willing to bet that the reason why it can't randomly crit is because Valve just didn't bother to program in the ability to roll for crits!
worth mentioning that the dragon's fury has situational "crits" which just triple the fireball's damage if the center connects on a burning player. it may seem weird why it doesn't just crit instead of dealing more damage but it was likely done so that it's not as underwhelming with kritz
Personally I think it was done that way to give pyro better options against buildings. They set the base damage to 70 (I'm pretty sure that's the correct value), and then added a damage penalty against non-burning targets. Zesty Jesus explained it in his dragon's fury video. Because buildings only ever take base damage, this allows pyro to more easily destroy buildings while still balancing around increased damage vs burning players. In essence, I think this increased damage vs burning players, for balancing purposes, counts as a situational crit, and I wholeheartedly agree. I think a similar principle applies to the short circuit. The energy ball could be considered an on-demand (albeit costly) crit attack. I think this is again the underlying principle in regards to the caber, and was surprised that it's not something he mentioned, instead choosing to focus only on how damaging a crit caber is.
Crits have multiple counters and downside to it, Firstly they don't increase the damage to buildings, second the Buff Banner negates all critical damage and reverts them back to base damage, lastly it cannot be buffed with the Kirtz.
Could the triple damage over crits decision be partly due to damage falloff too? Pyro is a close range class so giving him a situational crit weapon without falloff would maybe make him too versatile at longer ranges.
@@theodoresmith3829 for the Short Circuit, do you thing the Primary fire needs something like the Widowmaker stat of "hitting targets gives metal back" to make it at least have some utility? Maybe even a "consecutive hits increase weapon damage" sort of stat could work as well.
@@drivanradosivic1357 I like the idea of consecutive hits dealing more damage, but on something that doesn't require much aim I don't think getting metal back on hit would be balanced. Especially since metal limitations are the main balancing aspect of the alt-fire, which is the only real reason to use the short circuit in the first place
What i remember reading the skullcutter stats, it also has a movement penalty for drawing the weapon out, so there is a hinderance though a minor one that can be fixed with a shield.
insane to me that this game which I have "only" 300 hours in, which I discovered in my 20s, was being played when I was a literal child. incredible longevity.
What should've also been addressed is the weapon that has situational and random crits. The KGB. Aside from maybe a few other items (diamondback, phlog), it's really easy and really powerful to get those crits.
The KGB is ok... Heavy being the slowest class in the game has serius problems to get in melee range to any enemy. So, if a heavy kills you with the KGB, or he outplayed you totally, or you just weren't paying any atention to the game, either way, the heavy just won his crits in a fair way.
@@commscan314 Sorry, I deleted the last comment because I missunderstud at first. When you only have text to work with it's difficult to understand when someone is saying something in a good way or an angry way, plus I'm used to have discussions in internet cause I always end up in controversials topics. Anyways, I deleted it to avoid confussions. Sorry again.
"While two seconds of crits from the shortstop are a nuisance at most..." Honestly I've been using the shortstop a lot more lately and crits are devastating. It's not uncommon to 3 shot people at the longest possible ranges. Out to medium range you can still be dealing 100+ per shot and because the random crits are calculated as if for an automatic weapon in my experience it feels like the shortstop random crits all the dang time.
And because Crit Canteens are in MvM, the Shortstop is actually the most powerful primary in MvM. ... Except for a glitched Soda Popper that has a firing speed upgrade even though it doesn't have the upgrade normally.
I used to be a much better shot in TF2 when I was younger, and the Shortstop was my go-to gun. I don't know if it's placebo or what, but it just felt like the shots connected much better than the Scattergun. It's a genuinely decent primary, you get 2 less shots but you reload them all immediately after you're done.
one sec, the skullcutter, so i think, has already a pretty big downside which is the -15% Movespeed. This might doesnt sound much but that makes the demoman, one of the already slower classes, *barely* faster than a heavy and already a bit slower than the soldier. So having random crits on this thing might sounds like overkill but you have to think about that you basicly can land just 1 hit and than have to leave coz youre basicly a sitting duck with this weapon, barely able to actively GET to your target with that (at least without a shield charge).
I love the skullcutters crit chance exception. Such a fun weapon as it encourages a sort of "berserker" playstyle even more than other swords. Constantly outputting damage in order to crit consistently.
I think they removed random crits from the enforcer in the fear that the “ignoring resistances” stat of the gun would allow a spy to one shot random crit a medic while he’s vaccinator ubering. Maybe I’m looking too far into it, though.
yeah resistance piercing along with random crits (which spy would actually have a very good chance of getting provided he stabbed someone beforehand) would completely annihilate things like vaccinator, fists of steel and Demoknights in general. Hell even now it's one of the better weapons at dealing with a wrangled sentry off of that resistance piercing alone (granted crits don't work on buildings in the first place)
@@daddysempaichan Yeah people shit on random crits on certain weapons, but i guess they are too stock purist to realize how many fucking weapons suck with random crits turned off
I would consider the Dragon’s Fury to effectively act as a situational crit weapon. A solid hit to the center of the hitbox on a flaming target deals triple damage, similar to the flare gun.
@@ekyanso4253 technically it only does 3x damage on a crit as it does -66% damage to non-buring targets instead of 3x to burning ones which makes crits even better (180 compared to 270)
@@rude6371 You can get dopamine by doing an air shot with the direct hit, a double donk with the Loose Cannon, an environmental kill with the FaN, whiping out and entire team with a kritzkieg uber, killing enemies with their own proyectiles as pyro, killing a full health player with a well placed sticky trap, doing a taunt kill, killing a cocky player with a trickstab, doing a colateral kill with the machina, trimping all around the map to kill an unexpected prey, killing an unexpected unlucky cloacked spy.... The list goes on, and whithout mentioning the Random Crits.
@@pixavier9746 that is true, but then random crits ALSO dopamine and from a game dev perspective why not have more dopamine? Personally, the proposition I'm the biggest fan of is to remove random crits on anything EXCEPT melee (and maybe even scale back the chances on melee). I'm just too in love with the wackiness of melee crits, and I think they're slightly more balanced as they are at maximum single-target short-range damage bursts. Plenty of melee items should still have the "no random crits" penalty, and hell I even think it should be given to the skullcutter. I just don't want them entirely removed from melee situations.
@@theodoresmith3829 the dophamine you get from a random crit is a expense of somone else entertainment, if you crocket kill ofc it will feel great but imagine what the other person feel, you can also get killed by a random crit most of the time that to get a random crit kill
@@leroy2k582 Well yeah and that's why I think they should be removed from weapons aside from melee. However, given the risk involved with being in melee range of someone else, I think it should be fine to have that random crit reward still possible. Not to mention, when I die to random melee crits I usually just laugh at myself and the situation in general. Everything else mentioned is also at the expense of another player, it's all a matter of perspective
13:08 The phlog was actually suposed to get a nerf. You see, back before tough break you could slip down ledges from a taunt to cancel the animation and get more crits. By making changes to taunts in general, making the pyro immune to any damage and splash damage, you wouldn't be able to extend the crit time of the phlog that was intended... in theory. What happened is instead of making the weapons feel fair for the pyro and those against him they botched a solution, probably because the spaghetti code was too much to handle. I keep hearing that they "buffed the wrong weapon" but i don't think it's that. I think they made lazy changes, not understanding what they would actually mean for the game balance.
you can still taunt cancel anyways, lul. There needs to be certain code that lets 'players taunt mid-air' present on the server in order to stop that exploit. doesn't let them start a taunt mid-air, but prevents any interruption from the taunt ending it early.
The problem was not the taunt, it was the fact that it fully healed you in that patch. My first though break match was in junction with around 7-8 phlog pyros in each team. If tou were about to die you just preased m2, got full hp + crits + über until your taunt ended. The heal was crazily overpowered.
wanna be scared? the phlog, even if it has the "no random crit" tag on it may, on extremely rare moments, actually pull out a random crit. (odds are 1/255 actually)
The thing about the Enforcer is that it used to be able to crit when it had a constant +20% damage bonus allowing it to deal 144 damage with only one shot.
This is a really nice video going into the thought behind why some weapons have a stat most people see as a confusing joke. The only weapon I think which is missing no randomcrits is the back burner.. situational crits but it can random crit anyways. It's not fun to be crit from behind then quickly turn around just to get random crit from the front anyways
I think a big reason the short circuit can't random crit is because the secondary fire can hit multiple times on a single target. Considering it's usually a defensive utility weapon, letting it do THAT much potential damage would likely shake up the entire way the weapon is viewed
I understand that for game balancing reasons it's impossible, but I'd really like to see the kaber come back with that crowd wipe ability, it is literally a grenade so it would make sense that it could take out multiple enemies at once. But as a drawback it should instantly take out the demo Man too. I know that for competitive 6v6's this is impossible because you could guarantee win the mid-fight and take out half the team, but it's just a nice detail that I think would be cool
You know, if you do the math, the ability to randomly crit makes the weapon do 25.75% more damage than ones that cannot (assuming the crit chance stays at its median of 8.25%). So it actually makes sense on paper that the stat ‘No random critical hits’ is equivalent to ‘-25% damage done’, except it doesn’t actually work out in practice.
8:58 "Attacks pierce damage resistance effects and bonuses". Imagine having a damage resistance weapon like a shield or a banner only to get random critted by a pew-pew spy. If the enforcer didn't have the random crits disabled, it could potentially be as affective as the old ambassador or better.
On the topic of the dragon's fury: As others have pointed out, it has it's own damage bonus against burning players(and buildings). It should be noted that the bonus damage is equal to a critical hit, but IS NOT a critical hit in of itself. Which means that the bonus damage can be crit boosted, allowing for 900% damage boosts for one hit, a max of 225 damage, in just one shot. The damage boost is most likely the main reason they chose to deny random crits on it. Given the Dragon's Fury high dps with its fast firing speed and constant afterburn, crit chances are inherently higher, as random crit chance grows with damage in the last 20 seconds. Not to mention, the low first shot damage would be completely negated if the first shot was a random crit.
So, the reason why the guillotine doesn’t random crit, is the same reason why they removed them in the first place. Due to the range and high damage on throw, a crit would one shot light and medium light classes from outside the scouts intended range
Valve just needs to remove them already. They bring too much dice rolling to a game that should be about team chemistry. Why bother pushing that heavy medic combo with a team when a soldier can just get a random crit rocket, kill the medic instantly and finish the heavy in a follow up shot? Yes, banking on a dice roll is more often than not, a bad idea that will likely get you killed, but the fact that it SOMETIMES works, is just silly. Especially with sniper and demoman who's biggest counters are up close and personal, but it's completely negated when their melee weapon gets a random crit. I've always said how sniper is an overpowered class because of random crits and I still think it's true.
if they removed them, then comments and videos about them would stop coming out 10+ years later after they made the game. immortality is a drug and getting people to make jokes and argue about something that literally doesn't matter is important.
@@krowta2062 community servers exist. for boomers like me, we didnt have a fancy casual matchmaking system, we had a bunch of clans that ran servers that disabled crits and we never even talked about their existence. now its a silly little thing to comment about nowadays because free 2 play casuals
The Sniper is actually OP because they have the only near instant long range accuracy weapon aside from the spy. Their weapon is entirely based on your individual skill and able to 1-shot many classes just by hitting the head uncharged or body while charged negating both weakness they have while still having a decent HP pool. The only "balance" a class like a Sniper has is if they miss, they are balanced ONLY IF THEY MESS UP. This is why cheaters often use them, bots don't mess up often. This is why skilled players often use them, they win most fights. If Melee didn't have high crits they'd just go for headshots and kill you even more often due to practicing accuracy at all ranges. They would become even more oppressive.
The dragons fury does actually have situational crits, if you hit an enemy in the center of the fireball it lists it as doing 300% more damage, which is basically the same thing
the way dragon's fury calculates damage is weird as fuck. you can either take the blue pill and say that dragon's fury does 300% more damage to burning players or take the red pill and say that dragon's fury does 300% less damage to non-burning players
im guessing they gave the dragons fury no random crits because the mechanic of hitting burning players to get triple damage is akin to getting situational crits
I think the reason why instead of the dragons fury critting on burning players it just deals more damage is so the dragons fury can kill engineer buildings while it’s pushing forwards. So that a dragons fury pyro doesn’t need to wait for a demo to kill a level two sentry and can keep going.
@@dinoaurus1 yeah but since an attack on a non burning player is a damage reduction it means that buildings always take the same amount of damage as burning players. Its weird but it actually works try it in game and attack a building its the same damage as on a burning target.
No it doesn't. It just doesn't have the "no random crits" mentioned in the stats. You're welcome to test it if you want, but it will never randomly crit.
I think demo's swords and the 6 other melee weapons with the no random crit downside to have it changed to "reduced random crit chance." This new downside would lower the crit chance from 15-60% to 5-20%. This would make those weapons more usable in combat, and for demo's swords it would open up loadout variety by making pairing a sword with a sticky launcher more feasible.
11:58 the other thing is the way the DF basically already "crits" burning targets for 3x damage like flare guns. In actuality it has a 66% penalty hitting nonburning targets, so it's base damage is actually that full 90ish (which is what it does to buildings) so in effect the critlike damage "boost" for repeat hits is a built in sort of functional reward system on it - adding random crits would needlessly negate that. The only reason it really isn't just using a crit system anyways is because that would make it too inconsistent since crits are counterable through unusual ways (and of course it would result in both neutered synergy with critboosting vulnerabilities such as a banner soldier or kritz medic, as well as meaning the base damage would be that weak 30 and would make the weapon extremely bad vs engineer buildings). In effect the dragons fury has a crit system much like other situational crit weapons, justifying it being unable to random crit.
Honestly, as someone who has a good amount of knowledge on the Skullcutter, I think it is because that is the single "Sword" in game that is not meant for Demoknight. It's a "Sword" melee that is closer to being a zoning tool that allows you to handle close range classes such as spy more effectively. The Eyelander and the other swords have benefits as you said, but a notable difference is their benefits for almost all swords are based on shield usage for viability. The Mor and Persuader both have benefits that exclusively benefit shield usage, melee kills for the Mor and Hits + Ammo Boxes for the Persuader restore charge. The Eyelander (and reskins) are effectively a downgrade until you take two heads if you aren't using the Boots, and even then the Boots require a shield to get most of their positive effects aside from the 25 health boost. Finally, the Zatoichi is based around the Honorbound mechanic which allows you to one shot other Zatoichi users, but if you don't get a kill with it, you lose 50 health for putting it away. So you are either putting yourself at an inherent disadvantage by not using a shield, you are taking a downgrade unless you manage to get two heads or use Boots and preferably Shield, or you are risking your own life to not be able to use your grenade or stickybomb launcher so you can possibly heal on kill. The Skullcutter is the single exception. It gives a flat damage bonus for a slower movespeed, which given the high mobility of a Demo with the Stickybomb Launcher, that isn't an issue. The Skullcutter is basically the everyman "Sword" as it fits in every Demo Loadout without fail because of how versatile it is. If you wanna play Stock? Why not use the Skullcutter? Wanna torment Snipers? Use BASE Jumper and Sticky Jumper with the Skullcutter. Demoknight? Boots, Shield of Choice, Skullcutter. Need to Defend? Grab yourself Iron Bomber, Scottish Resistance, Skullcutter. If the Skullcutter had no random critical hits, it would still see use, and quite a bit of it and that's the beauty of it. 78 damage is enough to two shot Light Classes and three shot Medium Classes. The only people who could naturally survive this is Heavies and Boots + 4 Head Demos. Three Skullcutter hits (Or a single crit) is 234 damage, and a Demo with max heads and boots is 235. Everyone else either needs overheal to survive three hits or cannot survive three hits or a crit at all. So all in all, even if you remove the Random Crits, Skullcutter Demoknights are still going to terrorize entire enemy teams, especially using things like the Tide Turner because of the wide range of motion and the fact they can two shot heavies without overheal. The Skullcutter is still a powerful tool for killing anything below 150hp, which means a good demo can drop a medic or force them to pop uber. Finally, it also means the Skullcutter becomes a more balanced multitool.
I think part of the reason swords can't random crits is due to their long range. Melee's have a bigger chance to crit, but they're technically balanced by their short range and the mobility of each class (hence why scout bats do so little damage even with crits), giving random crits to Demo's swords, a class who can easily close the clap to his opponents thanks to his mobility and extended range, would be a tad unfair to fight. Which is why I think the reason the Skullcutter is able to random crit is due to it's 15% speed penalty, which puts Demo barely faster than a soldier, essentially Valve thought that with this stat and the slow-holdster speed (and a lack of extra benefits aside from raw damage) the Demo would have a way harder time approaching his opponents to get a use out of the upside (even if playing Demoknight pretty much degates the downsides), so Valve chose to add Random Crits to the weapon as a way to "balance out its weaknesses" since Melee's are more dependant on random crits anyways .
Yea but... In a SHOOTER game, more in a team shooter game like TF2, melees should not be insta killing weapons. The entire idea of melee weapons in this type of games is to be the LAST damage source, when your out of ammo or the enemy is too near from you that you can't aim properly or you receive damage from your own explosives, or utility (in the case of TF2 and the unique stats of each weapon), never a free kill tool. My point is, giving melees the chance of killing a player with a single hit because yes, is not a way to balance them. They shouldn't be used to kill full health players in the first place. The only exception being of course spy, but he doesn't rely on randomnes, instead, he relys on stealth, strategy and mind games to fool his oponents.... And then, all of this high skilled and strategical stuff is just denied AND countered by a single guy holding M1 while having their melee out... Nice.
The original Enforcer with the damage bonus at all times and random crits was a nightmare to fight against! Imagine the Diamondback but even stronger! And you’d be doing a lot of damage so you could get random crits easily.
9:59 I think the reason it can’t random crit is that its secondary fire is an energy ball, which is copy and pasted from the Tesla Coil halloween spell. The spell can’t be crit boosted at all, so it would make little sense for the primary fire to be able to random crit and have the secondary one never be able to crit ever. Also the secondary fire never worked like a conventional fire mode so it’s a bit hard to come up with a new way to roll for crits for something that’s barely used.
Well the dragons fury does TECHNICAL have situational crits if the enemy is on fire BUT hits on non burning players are actually 1/3 of the BASE damage which is labeled as a crit My brain hurts
300% vs burning player and critical hit is different. although they both increase damage to 300%, 300% vs burning player can be modified again with mini-crit while critical hit damage can't modified again with ramp up, fall off, etc and can reduced to base damage instead 300% base damage by crit resistance (building since they always have hidden crit resistance, vaccinator charge, battalion backup).
I thought you were going to talk about how random crit chance is also calculated using base damage, which means crits actually deal 9x damage for the dragon's fury instead of just 3x
The Dragon Fury's base damage isn't 25, it actually deals 75 base damage because hitting a building will also deal 75 damage. The reason why it deals 25 initial damage is because the weapon secretly has a 66% damage penalty against non burning players (if it's not crit boosted). Which is why crits will also deal 225 damage.
8:26 Another thing of note about the Ullapool Caber is that it can't minicrit either (at least on shield charges). Probably for similar reasons as to why it can't random crit (low skill, high reward).
And the dmg it depends on where u are hitting them. If u are above the enemy it deals lesser dmg,but u can one a sniper,engie,scout or spy if u are under him.
Honestly, I was surprised on how balanced TF2 was when I first played it 3 months ago. TF2 players need to appreciate Valve tbh, there's a lot more games out there with devs who give 0 fucks about the playerbase.
"It makes sense why you also wouldn't want situational crit weapons to deal random crits." The KGB: Random Crit an unsuspecting Sniper, Guaranteed Crit 5 Other People!
Funny story, in 2011 I played tf2 for the first time, on the DAY that 25% damage nerf went put was the first time I tried the eyelander, it wasn't until years later that I realized the eyelander doesn't actually have a 25% damage loss because I never looked at it again
I find wrench crits to be hilariously and specifically placed when I deal with spies, but I can never fend off any of the other classes the same way Look mom I’m famous: 4:47 7:50
Ever since i seen a server where the caber had infinite explosive hits, ive thought "why dont they just keep the current downside, and add the infinite explosives and maybe a crits turn into minicrits like the cow mangler has for shields n stuff"
the best way to see how much "no random crits" makes a diffrence is medieval mode like i cant tell you how many times i got one shotted by a scotsman skull cutter while using a eyelander with plenty of heads
Great video, I think you did a great digging into valve's mentality when adding the stat, although there's one thing: I was hoping that you would, much like you explained why certain weapons CAN'T random crit, explain why other weapons CAN random crit despite having fairly common situational crits (like the flare gun) still tho, really good video :)
I believe the Scotman Skullcutter being able to random crit helps offset of the biggest downside it has, which is a reduced movement speed. Shields on demoknight is all about mobility at a cost of explosive damage and range. Nerfing the single aspect which makes Demoknight a somewhat viable and fun subclass is hypocritical. In addition, it has no utility or sustainability of any sort unlike other swords, like shield recharge, healing, or extended charge time. Being at such a close range with enemies, you take a lot of damage, so sustainability and utility are very useful for Demoknights. Scotman Skullcutter is good at one thing only. In combination with its damage bonus and crit, it can one-shot Heavies. Its all about damage, which is why theyre often used in troll builds for MvM Demoknights. Removing random crits in Scotsman Skullcutter will tip the line from being barely usable yet beneficial to being next to trash. Because of its slower holster deployment, it cant compete against stock bottles, as the bottle also crits.
I understand why the Guillotine can't crit. 150 damage at any range on scout is absolutely busted. I don't think I'd consider the Dragons Fury as a weapon without situational crits. Crits are 3x damage, AKA 300%, which the Dragon's Fury does. I get that it's not crits, but it might as well be crits.
![The Evolution of Demoknight [TF2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eGPXG_tTnKI/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Evolution of Demoknight [TF2]](/img/tr.png)
“The Liberty Launcher would kill to exchange its downside for ‘No Random Crits’.”
Y’know. If it COULD kill.
lol
Oooh burn
@@GameyRaccoon actually burns have a chance to kill people
Pretty sure that was the joke.
i dont think it could even kill even if it wanted
Worth noting is that the Dragon's Fury also technically has Situational Crits, since it does 3x damage against burning targets (same damage multiplier as crits)
It always crits, but has a 66% damage penalty to non burning players. This is when it crits buildings
It still gets multiplied by crits, which means it does around 270 damage when burning and crit boosted
@@orcashamudeluxeu567 not really because buildings take only true damage so 75 is base damage, the penalty is a damage reduction not a non crit penalty
@@bohnzo473 yea good point.
Code wise it actually has a -66% damage penalty on non-burning targets
Love the class silhouette to the right when you go over a weapon's original stats, looks sick
The no random crit line is more of a "feeling balance" imo.
Like you pointed out, a good amount of weapons that can't crit have some sort of way to give themselves crits. I personally would be way more upset playing around a back burner pyro's crit mechanic, just to die to random crits. Compared to dying to random crits from a stock Pyro. Or playing around a Demoknight's charge, just to die to a random crit from the eyelander.
thats a great point that i hadn't even thought of
Feeling cute, might balance later
"imagine getting hit by a random crit from a demoknight"
*Skullcutter*
@@aghitsaplane4262 pain
@@aghitsaplane4262 people who use the skull cutter are pieces of shit who rely on random crits
"Valve has improved greatly"
Cant struggle to balance when you dont balance
It's like a valve trade mark
Take csgo (now cs2), we have ak47 and awp both most op gun in csgo and am being specifically for t side , it's unbalanced but despite being broken ,it has become a part of game
As ak is an assault rifle it's highly accurate on 1 shot and can headshot anyone across whole map with 100% first shot accuracy , making it most broken gun in csgo , as players have outplayer snipers with this gun
That's same with tf2 , we have broken gun which suits as both frustrating and fun element of the game , and whenever companies tries to fix a broken thing they certainly ruin the whole game
There are many examples
Sometimes I feel like Valve is going backwards instead of forwards but this video makes me realize that they do seem to be trying, even if it's misguided at times.
if you look closely you can see them not moving at all
Someone who made an entire video about valve mentioned: "they are not scared to fuck up" Thats why it may feel they are misguided at times.
But they definitely went a long way forwards.
Too bad the bot creating community went on to kill such a title.
@@tezkyflex7304 It's true. Experimenting with weird balance choices to see what sticks is a pretty good method, and Valve made it work well for them back when they were actively updating the game.
Unfortunately, it stops working when balance updates only come out once every few years. Instead of making a change, gathering feedback over the course of a few months, and adjusting the balance again until everything finally seems right, Valve breaks a weapon and leaves it like that.
That being said, the state TF2's balance is currently stuck in is probably the best it has ever been, even if it's far from the game's full potential.
I'm pretty sure Valve has stopped dead in their tracks at this point, if I'm honest.
3:22 Powerjack
+25% damage
-25% damage
Perfectly balanced as all things should be.
It was direct upgrade lol
it now is - 6.25%
@@cubekoss7547 wdym
@luk4323 75% of 125 is 93.75, and vice versa
The Dragon's Fury is sadly just a very shoddily coded weapon. The fire rate is determined by a hidden item meter bar which is why resupply can make you shoot again immediately, and "impulse 101" just makes you go rapid fire. The projectile stops upon any collision with so many other entities when it shouldn't (such as just enemy projectiles), and the projectile itself doesn't even have any visual representation aside from a faint light or crit particles if it's crit boosted. That "fireball" seen from firing is just the muzzleflash created by the Dragon's Fury, always going up to a certain range and always assuming it can't be stopped or reflected. Heck, I'm willing to bet that the reason why it can't randomly crit is because Valve just didn't bother to program in the ability to roll for crits!
Dragon's Fury does have a clear indication when it crits though, the fire changes colour to whatever team you're on.
oh so that's why my resupply bind makes it go brrrr
Oh thats why i sometimes rapid fire dragon fury when i play around in tc_walkway
it no longer collides with projectiles
worth mentioning that the dragon's fury has situational "crits" which just triple the fireball's damage if the center connects on a burning player. it may seem weird why it doesn't just crit instead of dealing more damage but it was likely done so that it's not as underwhelming with kritz
Personally I think it was done that way to give pyro better options against buildings. They set the base damage to 70 (I'm pretty sure that's the correct value), and then added a damage penalty against non-burning targets. Zesty Jesus explained it in his dragon's fury video. Because buildings only ever take base damage, this allows pyro to more easily destroy buildings while still balancing around increased damage vs burning players. In essence, I think this increased damage vs burning players, for balancing purposes, counts as a situational crit, and I wholeheartedly agree.
I think a similar principle applies to the short circuit. The energy ball could be considered an on-demand (albeit costly) crit attack.
I think this is again the underlying principle in regards to the caber, and was surprised that it's not something he mentioned, instead choosing to focus only on how damaging a crit caber is.
Crits have multiple counters and downside to it, Firstly they don't increase the damage to buildings, second the Buff Banner negates all critical damage and reverts them back to base damage, lastly it cannot be buffed with the Kirtz.
Could the triple damage over crits decision be partly due to damage falloff too? Pyro is a close range class so giving him a situational crit weapon without falloff would maybe make him too versatile at longer ranges.
@@theodoresmith3829 for the Short Circuit, do you thing the Primary fire needs something like the Widowmaker stat of "hitting targets gives metal back" to make it at least have some utility? Maybe even a "consecutive hits increase weapon damage" sort of stat could work as well.
@@drivanradosivic1357 I like the idea of consecutive hits dealing more damage, but on something that doesn't require much aim I don't think getting metal back on hit would be balanced. Especially since metal limitations are the main balancing aspect of the alt-fire, which is the only real reason to use the short circuit in the first place
pre-2011 valve: "i would like to award you the highest honor i can bestow" *No random critical hits.*
The Scotsman's Skullcutter's whole schtick is that it deals more damage, hence the random crits
it also doesnt get the extra benefit the other swords give
@@abbadox315 at this point random crits practically are the extra benefit lmao
@@You-topia exactly my point
What i remember reading the skullcutter stats, it also has a movement penalty for drawing the weapon out, so there is a hinderance though a minor one that can be fixed with a shield.
@@2themax351 or one of the 2 boots. also all the other swords have atleast 1 downside
Been waiting on this since that harvest server
hope you found the video to be "gamer" :)
@@listertf2 I did indeed video was gamer/10 👍
insane to me that this game which I have "only" 300 hours in, which I discovered in my 20s, was being played when I was a literal child. incredible longevity.
I played this game *as* a literal child, got into it just before it went f2p
@@MajiriTadakichi same just a little later when mvm came out and earbuds with maxs heads was the shit
Yeah i literally grew up with this game, been playing since 2011 so 10 years now. Still playing it and played it last night
ikr
What should've also been addressed is the weapon that has situational and random crits. The KGB. Aside from maybe a few other items (diamondback, phlog), it's really easy and really powerful to get those crits.
The KGB is ok... Heavy being the slowest class in the game has serius problems to get in melee range to any enemy. So, if a heavy kills you with the KGB, or he outplayed you totally, or you just weren't paying any atention to the game, either way, the heavy just won his crits in a fair way.
@@pixavier9746 And now he's gonna shred people with his hard earned laser beams.
@@pixavier9746 Essentially, KGB crits transfer to your other weapons, and that's it's primary strength.
@@commscan314 Exactly.
@@commscan314 Sorry, I deleted the last comment because I missunderstud at first. When you only have text to work with it's difficult to understand when someone is saying something in a good way or an angry way, plus I'm used to have discussions in internet cause I always end up in controversials topics. Anyways, I deleted it to avoid confussions. Sorry again.
"While two seconds of crits from the shortstop are a nuisance at most..."
Honestly I've been using the shortstop a lot more lately and crits are devastating. It's not uncommon to 3 shot people at the longest possible ranges. Out to medium range you can still be dealing 100+ per shot and because the random crits are calculated as if for an automatic weapon in my experience it feels like the shortstop random crits all the dang time.
And because Crit Canteens are in MvM, the Shortstop is actually the most powerful primary in MvM.
...
Except for a glitched Soda Popper that has a firing speed upgrade even though it doesn't have the upgrade normally.
I used to be a much better shot in TF2 when I was younger, and the Shortstop was my go-to gun. I don't know if it's placebo or what, but it just felt like the shots connected much better than the Scattergun. It's a genuinely decent primary, you get 2 less shots but you reload them all immediately after you're done.
"All situational crit weapons have no random crits"
Boxer gloves: Nah, I don't care about this shit
one sec, the skullcutter, so i think, has already a pretty big downside which is the -15% Movespeed.
This might doesnt sound much but that makes the demoman, one of the already slower classes, *barely* faster than a heavy and already a bit slower than the soldier. So having random crits on this thing might sounds like overkill but you have to think about that you basicly can land just 1 hit and than have to leave coz youre basicly a sitting duck with this weapon, barely able to actively GET to your target with that (at least without a shield charge).
it also decreases the speed of your charge
@@streamlet7448 yea. thats also true.
I love the skullcutters crit chance exception. Such a fun weapon as it encourages a sort of "berserker" playstyle even more than other swords. Constantly outputting damage in order to crit consistently.
I think they removed random crits from the enforcer in the fear that the “ignoring resistances” stat of the gun would allow a spy to one shot random crit a medic while he’s vaccinator ubering. Maybe I’m looking too far into it, though.
That makes more sense actually. Trading random crits with a gun that deals damage consistantly.
They added no random crits, cuz in the past it only had a constant damage buff, without any specifications needed
yeah resistance piercing along with random crits (which spy would actually have a very good chance of getting provided he stabbed someone beforehand) would completely annihilate things like vaccinator, fists of steel and Demoknights in general. Hell even now it's one of the better weapons at dealing with a wrangled sentry off of that resistance piercing alone (granted crits don't work on buildings in the first place)
''Whenever that is.'' That line made me deppressed
I really don't understand how the KGB still maintains it's random crit ability while keeping a guaranteed crit modifier.
because random instakill punching glove funni
How else is Heavy gonna get melee kills lamo
Also the direct hit has conditional mini crits and random crits...
@@daddysempaichan Yeah people shit on random crits on certain weapons, but i guess they are too stock purist to realize how many fucking weapons suck with random crits turned off
Try to punch someone as a heavy and not get strafed to death
I would consider the Dragon’s Fury to effectively act as a situational crit weapon. A solid hit to the center of the hitbox on a flaming target deals triple damage, similar to the flare gun.
Yes, but it's not counted as crit damage which is weird.
If you land a crit-charged shot on an flaming target, you deal 6x damage.
@@ekyanso4253 technically it only does 3x damage on a crit as it does -66% damage to non-buring targets instead of 3x to burning ones which makes crits even better (180 compared to 270)
Actually, the real question we are all asking for responses is: Why can MOST weapons random crit?
Dopamine
@@rude6371 You can get dopamine by doing an air shot with the direct hit, a double donk with the Loose Cannon, an environmental kill with the FaN, whiping out and entire team with a kritzkieg uber, killing enemies with their own proyectiles as pyro, killing a full health player with a well placed sticky trap, doing a taunt kill, killing a cocky player with a trickstab, doing a colateral kill with the machina, trimping all around the map to kill an unexpected prey, killing an unexpected unlucky cloacked spy.... The list goes on, and whithout mentioning the Random Crits.
@@pixavier9746 that is true, but then random crits ALSO dopamine and from a game dev perspective why not have more dopamine?
Personally, the proposition I'm the biggest fan of is to remove random crits on anything EXCEPT melee (and maybe even scale back the chances on melee). I'm just too in love with the wackiness of melee crits, and I think they're slightly more balanced as they are at maximum single-target short-range damage bursts. Plenty of melee items should still have the "no random crits" penalty, and hell I even think it should be given to the skullcutter. I just don't want them entirely removed from melee situations.
@@theodoresmith3829 the dophamine you get from a random crit is a expense of somone else entertainment, if you crocket kill ofc it will feel great but imagine what the other person feel, you can also get killed by a random crit most of the time that to get a random crit kill
@@leroy2k582 Well yeah and that's why I think they should be removed from weapons aside from melee. However, given the risk involved with being in melee range of someone else, I think it should be fine to have that random crit reward still possible. Not to mention, when I die to random melee crits I usually just laugh at myself and the situation in general. Everything else mentioned is also at the expense of another player, it's all a matter of perspective
This video is really well-made and is too underappreciated for its sheer quality
Good job my man
13:08 The phlog was actually suposed to get a nerf. You see, back before tough break you could slip down ledges from a taunt to cancel the animation and get more crits. By making changes to taunts in general, making the pyro immune to any damage and splash damage, you wouldn't be able to extend the crit time of the phlog that was intended... in theory. What happened is instead of making the weapons feel fair for the pyro and those against him they botched a solution, probably because the spaghetti code was too much to handle.
I keep hearing that they "buffed the wrong weapon" but i don't think it's that. I think they made lazy changes, not understanding what they would actually mean for the game balance.
you can still taunt cancel anyways, lul. There needs to be certain code that lets 'players taunt mid-air' present on the server in order to stop that exploit.
doesn't let them start a taunt mid-air, but prevents any interruption from the taunt ending it early.
The problem was not the taunt, it was the fact that it fully healed you in that patch. My first though break match was in junction with around 7-8 phlog pyros in each team. If tou were about to die you just preased m2, got full hp + crits + über until your taunt ended. The heal was crazily overpowered.
wanna be scared?
the phlog, even if it has the "no random crit" tag on it may, on extremely rare moments, actually pull out a random crit.
(odds are 1/255 actually)
What
@@amebee709 you did not misread it: there is a 1/255 chance that Phlog may pull a random crit
@@Mima_the_vengeful_spirit is there any evidence
@@amebee709 well. give it a try (but be ready to chew a lot of ammo as the crit popping at random is at 0.39% only)
@@Mima_the_vengeful_spirit I never want to use the phlog after I used it for an entire day once
The thing about the Enforcer is that it used to be able to crit when it had a constant +20% damage bonus allowing it to deal 144 damage with only one shot.
This is a really nice video going into the thought behind why some weapons have a stat most people see as a confusing joke.
The only weapon I think which is missing no randomcrits is the back burner.. situational crits but it can random crit anyways.
It's not fun to be crit from behind then quickly turn around just to get random crit from the front anyways
yeah why does pyro even have random crits tbh
@@Nigg4pufferfish445 the fire was feeling extra hot that day
Backburner can't random crit tho.
@@somekinnn yes it can
@@Nigg4pufferfish445 Send a video of it.
Also, the Dragon's Fury kind of has something similar to a guaranteed crit, and its whole gameplay pattern is about being able to ramp up damage
Most balanced TF2C weapon: 2:57
I think a big reason the short circuit can't random crit is because the secondary fire can hit multiple times on a single target. Considering it's usually a defensive utility weapon, letting it do THAT much potential damage would likely shake up the entire way the weapon is viewed
I understand that for game balancing reasons it's impossible, but I'd really like to see the kaber come back with that crowd wipe ability, it is literally a grenade so it would make sense that it could take out multiple enemies at once. But as a drawback it should instantly take out the demo Man too. I know that for competitive 6v6's this is impossible because you could guarantee win the mid-fight and take out half the team, but it's just a nice detail that I think would be cool
Now imagine if sentry guns had random crits
Ah Ah 300 dps level 3 go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr BOOOOOOOOOM
kinda balanced😞😞😞
they should give the wrangler random crits, 600 dps level 3 go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
You know, if you do the math, the ability to randomly crit makes the weapon do 25.75% more damage than ones that cannot (assuming the crit chance stays at its median of 8.25%). So it actually makes sense on paper that the stat ‘No random critical hits’ is equivalent to ‘-25% damage done’, except it doesn’t actually work out in practice.
8:58 "Attacks pierce damage resistance effects and bonuses".
Imagine having a damage resistance weapon like a shield or a banner only to get random critted by a pew-pew spy.
If the enforcer didn't have the random crits disabled, it could potentially be as affective as the old ambassador or better.
Good, we needed a replacement
On the topic of the dragon's fury:
As others have pointed out, it has it's own damage bonus against burning players(and buildings). It should be noted that the bonus damage is equal to a critical hit, but IS NOT a critical hit in of itself. Which means that the bonus damage can be crit boosted, allowing for 900% damage boosts for one hit, a max of 225 damage, in just one shot.
The damage boost is most likely the main reason they chose to deny random crits on it. Given the Dragon's Fury high dps with its fast firing speed and constant afterburn, crit chances are inherently higher, as random crit chance grows with damage in the last 20 seconds. Not to mention, the low first shot damage would be completely negated if the first shot was a random crit.
The problem isn't about weapons that can randomly crit, it's about why would there be random crits in a fps to begin with
Because it's fun.
@@lobsterbark no
So, the reason why the guillotine doesn’t random crit, is the same reason why they removed them in the first place.
Due to the range and high damage on throw, a crit would one shot light and medium light classes from outside the scouts intended range
Dragons Fury and Enforcer both can't random crit,
Instead of Situational minicrits, they get situational damage bonuses, Which is kinda the same
widowmaker
@@Onion-Bat That was added later. (and honestly its so pointless it barely exists)
Valve just needs to remove them already. They bring too much dice rolling to a game that should be about team chemistry. Why bother pushing that heavy medic combo with a team when a soldier can just get a random crit rocket, kill the medic instantly and finish the heavy in a follow up shot? Yes, banking on a dice roll is more often than not, a bad idea that will likely get you killed, but the fact that it SOMETIMES works, is just silly. Especially with sniper and demoman who's biggest counters are up close and personal, but it's completely negated when their melee weapon gets a random crit. I've always said how sniper is an overpowered class because of random crits and I still think it's true.
random krits funni
if they removed them, then comments and videos about them would stop coming out 10+ years later after they made the game. immortality is a drug and getting people to make jokes and argue about something that literally doesn't matter is important.
@@krowta2062 community servers exist. for boomers like me, we didnt have a fancy casual matchmaking system, we had a bunch of clans that ran servers that disabled crits and we never even talked about their existence. now its a silly little thing to comment about nowadays because free 2 play casuals
The Sniper is actually OP because they have the only near instant long range accuracy weapon aside from the spy. Their weapon is entirely based on your individual skill and able to 1-shot many classes just by hitting the head uncharged or body while charged negating both weakness they have while still having a decent HP pool.
The only "balance" a class like a Sniper has is if they miss, they are balanced ONLY IF THEY MESS UP.
This is why cheaters often use them, bots don't mess up often.
This is why skilled players often use them, they win most fights.
If Melee didn't have high crits they'd just go for headshots and kill you even more often due to practicing accuracy at all ranges. They would become even more oppressive.
3:59 "I think the Liberty Launcher would kill to have its damage penalty with no random crits."
*Bold of you to assume it can*
The dragons fury does actually have situational crits, if you hit an enemy in the center of the fireball it lists it as doing 300% more damage, which is basically the same thing
the way dragon's fury calculates damage is weird as fuck. you can either take the blue pill and say that dragon's fury does 300% more damage to burning players or take the red pill and say that dragon's fury does 300% less damage to non-burning players
yea there’s that too
Yeah but if dragons fury had random crits it could just delete burning player instantly lmao
oh yea
@@wabbajocky8235 the dragons fury projectile against burning players is actually the default damage, look at buildings, it has a -300% damage penalty
im guessing they gave the dragons fury no random crits because the mechanic of hitting burning players to get triple damage is akin to getting situational crits
Yea and a crit on a burning player would do 270 damage
I think the reason why instead of the dragons fury critting on burning players it just deals more damage is so the dragons fury can kill engineer buildings while it’s pushing forwards. So that a dragons fury pyro doesn’t need to wait for a demo to kill a level two sentry and can keep going.
@@sud1881buildings dont get set on fire tho
@@dinoaurus1 yeah but since an attack on a non burning player is a damage reduction it means that buildings always take the same amount of damage as burning players. Its weird but it actually works try it in game and attack a building its the same damage as on a burning target.
5:05 this is a great visual example of what you were talking about
The back burner has random crits aside from situational crits
No it doesn't. It just doesn't have the "no random crits" mentioned in the stats. You're welcome to test it if you want, but it will never randomly crit.
Valve didn't listed "No Random Crits" when they reworked the weapon from having "No Airblast" to "+50% Airblast Cost".
9:36 I think the reason why the short circuit can’t random crit is because it uses metal to shoot. Idk but just hypothesis
Glad to have found another small TFTuber, great video man!
hm nice video, its been a while since ive learned something about the game since ive been playing for 10 years now
I think demo's swords and the 6 other melee weapons with the no random crit downside to have it changed to "reduced random crit chance." This new downside would lower the crit chance from 15-60% to 5-20%. This would make those weapons more usable in combat, and for demo's swords it would open up loadout variety by making pairing a sword with a sticky launcher more feasible.
I approve 👌
They probably also used the "no random crit" when they did not know how to properly implement it...
11:58 the other thing is the way the DF basically already "crits" burning targets for 3x damage like flare guns. In actuality it has a 66% penalty hitting nonburning targets, so it's base damage is actually that full 90ish (which is what it does to buildings) so in effect the critlike damage "boost" for repeat hits is a built in sort of functional reward system on it - adding random crits would needlessly negate that. The only reason it really isn't just using a crit system anyways is because that would make it too inconsistent since crits are counterable through unusual ways (and of course it would result in both neutered synergy with critboosting vulnerabilities such as a banner soldier or kritz medic, as well as meaning the base damage would be that weak 30 and would make the weapon extremely bad vs engineer buildings). In effect the dragons fury has a crit system much like other situational crit weapons, justifying it being unable to random crit.
Honorable mention (for situational mini-crits): The Atomizer
Pog 2k congrats man
"This video is..." add in minesweeper cuts him off to say "...zesty and delicious"
Never seen any of your videos before, and this one was great, especially for such a small channel. Hope you continue to make videos like this
"Valve balancing philosophy"
Dude, the Caber, The Sandman and the Liberty launcher exists
that market garden was pretty awesome, keep doing it exactly like that 👍👍👍
Great vid
Honestly, as someone who has a good amount of knowledge on the Skullcutter, I think it is because that is the single "Sword" in game that is not meant for Demoknight. It's a "Sword" melee that is closer to being a zoning tool that allows you to handle close range classes such as spy more effectively. The Eyelander and the other swords have benefits as you said, but a notable difference is their benefits for almost all swords are based on shield usage for viability.
The Mor and Persuader both have benefits that exclusively benefit shield usage, melee kills for the Mor and Hits + Ammo Boxes for the Persuader restore charge.
The Eyelander (and reskins) are effectively a downgrade until you take two heads if you aren't using the Boots, and even then the Boots require a shield to get most of their positive effects aside from the 25 health boost.
Finally, the Zatoichi is based around the Honorbound mechanic which allows you to one shot other Zatoichi users, but if you don't get a kill with it, you lose 50 health for putting it away.
So you are either putting yourself at an inherent disadvantage by not using a shield, you are taking a downgrade unless you manage to get two heads or use Boots and preferably Shield, or you are risking your own life to not be able to use your grenade or stickybomb launcher so you can possibly heal on kill.
The Skullcutter is the single exception. It gives a flat damage bonus for a slower movespeed, which given the high mobility of a Demo with the Stickybomb Launcher, that isn't an issue. The Skullcutter is basically the everyman "Sword" as it fits in every Demo Loadout without fail because of how versatile it is. If you wanna play Stock? Why not use the Skullcutter? Wanna torment Snipers? Use BASE Jumper and Sticky Jumper with the Skullcutter. Demoknight? Boots, Shield of Choice, Skullcutter. Need to Defend? Grab yourself Iron Bomber, Scottish Resistance, Skullcutter.
If the Skullcutter had no random critical hits, it would still see use, and quite a bit of it and that's the beauty of it. 78 damage is enough to two shot Light Classes and three shot Medium Classes. The only people who could naturally survive this is Heavies and Boots + 4 Head Demos. Three Skullcutter hits (Or a single crit) is 234 damage, and a Demo with max heads and boots is 235. Everyone else either needs overheal to survive three hits or cannot survive three hits or a crit at all.
So all in all, even if you remove the Random Crits, Skullcutter Demoknights are still going to terrorize entire enemy teams, especially using things like the Tide Turner because of the wide range of motion and the fact they can two shot heavies without overheal. The Skullcutter is still a powerful tool for killing anything below 150hp, which means a good demo can drop a medic or force them to pop uber. Finally, it also means the Skullcutter becomes a more balanced multitool.
I look forward to the unlikely future where all weapons, stock included, feature that red line of text.
5:45 - Random crit bodyshot? Meet the crocket.
I think part of the reason swords can't random crits is due to their long range. Melee's have a bigger chance to crit, but they're technically balanced by their short range and the mobility of each class (hence why scout bats do so little damage even with crits), giving random crits to Demo's swords, a class who can easily close the clap to his opponents thanks to his mobility and extended range, would be a tad unfair to fight. Which is why I think the reason the Skullcutter is able to random crit is due to it's 15% speed penalty, which puts Demo barely faster than a soldier, essentially Valve thought that with this stat and the slow-holdster speed (and a lack of extra benefits aside from raw damage) the Demo would have a way harder time approaching his opponents to get a use out of the upside (even if playing Demoknight pretty much degates the downsides), so Valve chose to add Random Crits to the weapon as a way to "balance out its weaknesses" since Melee's are more dependant on random crits anyways .
Yea but... In a SHOOTER game, more in a team shooter game like TF2, melees should not be insta killing weapons. The entire idea of melee weapons in this type of games is to be the LAST damage source, when your out of ammo or the enemy is too near from you that you can't aim properly or you receive damage from your own explosives, or utility (in the case of TF2 and the unique stats of each weapon), never a free kill tool.
My point is, giving melees the chance of killing a player with a single hit because yes, is not a way to balance them. They shouldn't be used to kill full health players in the first place. The only exception being of course spy, but he doesn't rely on randomnes, instead, he relys on stealth, strategy and mind games to fool his oponents.... And then, all of this high skilled and strategical stuff is just denied AND countered by a single guy holding M1 while having their melee out... Nice.
4:28
Well, idk if Valve forgot to put the stat on the description, but the Backburner CAN random crit
It cant, they forgot
Have you used crits with the dragon's fury before?
That shit MELTS
I cant aim
3:22 So basically Powerjack had +25% damage AND +75 health on kill, so it was just better stock
What? Is this a joke
No? @@Hithere-uz6wd
The original Enforcer with the damage bonus at all times and random crits was a nightmare to fight against! Imagine the Diamondback but even stronger! And you’d be doing a lot of damage so you could get random crits easily.
13:20 quick reminder that spy has been useless since 2007 unless you have 10k hours on him
"All of demoman's swords can't random crit" meanwhile the scotsman skullcutter:
Its not a sword and he mentions it in the video and says it has random crits
The backburner cannot random crit despite not being listed as a downside, but also falls into the "situational crits" category
i just realized the killing gloves exist, oh and backburner doesn't have that penalty anymore
Backburner cant random crit.
It doesn't say that it cant on the weapon for some reason but it cant random crit.
9:59 I think the reason it can’t random crit is that its secondary fire is an energy ball, which is copy and pasted from the Tesla Coil halloween spell. The spell can’t be crit boosted at all, so it would make little sense for the primary fire to be able to random crit and have the secondary one never be able to crit ever. Also the secondary fire never worked like a conventional fire mode so it’s a bit hard to come up with a new way to roll for crits for something that’s barely used.
Well the dragons fury does TECHNICAL have situational crits if the enemy is on fire
BUT hits on non burning players are actually 1/3 of the BASE damage which is labeled as a crit
My brain hurts
300% vs burning player and critical hit is different. although they both increase damage to 300%, 300% vs burning player can be modified again with mini-crit while critical hit damage can't modified again with ramp up, fall off, etc and can reduced to base damage instead 300% base damage by crit resistance (building since they always have hidden crit resistance, vaccinator charge, battalion backup).
I still vote we return the ullapool back to its old good version, or let it random crit after it's exploded
I thought you were going to talk about how random crit chance is also calculated using base damage, which means crits actually deal 9x damage for the dragon's fury instead of just 3x
The Dragon Fury's base damage isn't 25, it actually deals 75 base damage because hitting a building will also deal 75 damage. The reason why it deals 25 initial damage is because the weapon secretly has a 66% damage penalty against non burning players (if it's not crit boosted). Which is why crits will also deal 225 damage.
@@demonizedlife2640 yeah, exactly
The liberty launcher would kill for no random crits.Unfortunately it can’t kill.
8:26 Another thing of note about the Ullapool Caber is that it can't minicrit either (at least on shield charges). Probably for similar reasons as to why it can't random crit (low skill, high reward).
And the dmg it depends on where u are hitting them.
If u are above the enemy it deals lesser dmg,but u can one a sniper,engie,scout or spy if u are under him.
This guy : *say weapons no have random crits*
Meanwhile : *knife on spy weapons*
What
Honestly, I missed the old Sydney sleeper.
Nice to see a yotuber that also listens to Krelez chiptune mixes!
Honestly, I was surprised on how balanced TF2 was when I first played it 3 months ago. TF2 players need to appreciate Valve tbh, there's a lot more games out there with devs who give 0 fucks about the playerbase.
Always love hearing Homeworld Run
Another strange case is the killing gloves of boxing. Those have situational crits, when you kill someone, but they _also_ get random crits
"It makes sense why you also wouldn't want situational crit weapons to deal random crits."
The KGB: Random Crit an unsuspecting Sniper, Guaranteed Crit 5 Other People!
I’d say that the dragons fury can’t random crit because it essentially already has situational crits (x3 damage on ignited enemies)
It had a not listed dmg penalty against non ignited enemies.
But on building it deals to base dmg.
Funny story, in 2011 I played tf2 for the first time, on the DAY that 25% damage nerf went put was the first time I tried the eyelander, it wasn't until years later that I realized the eyelander doesn't actually have a 25% damage loss because I never looked at it again
I find wrench crits to be hilariously and specifically placed when I deal with spies, but I can never fend off any of the other classes the same way
Look mom I’m famous:
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7:17 That heavy has the special diary spellbook, that's pretty cool
See it’s fair for the Scotsman’s skullcutter because that weapon can’t taunt kill
Ever since i seen a server where the caber had infinite explosive hits, ive thought "why dont they just keep the current downside, and add the infinite explosives and maybe a crits turn into minicrits like the cow mangler has for shields n stuff"
the best way to see how much "no random crits" makes a diffrence is medieval mode
like i cant tell you how many times i got one shotted by a scotsman skull cutter while using a eyelander with plenty of heads
myth: tf2 will have a major update
Truth: VALVe doesn't know how to design buffed weapons without the disadvantage of no random crits
Great video, I think you did a great digging into valve's mentality when adding the stat, although there's one thing: I was hoping that you would, much like you explained why certain weapons CAN'T random crit, explain why other weapons CAN random crit despite having fairly common situational crits (like the flare gun) still tho, really good video :)
First time I've actually watched a unique video about TF2
Imagine Random Crits on Huntsman
2:27 You know the equip rate there is completely wrong right? The % owners equip statistic is completely wrong.
Idk what it means
Yeah those numbers are wrong, how can less people who own it use the gun than people overall use the gun???
9:56 Honestly this is probably more to prevent crit Short Circuit alt fires from COMPLETELY flashbanging everyone who has to see it at random.
I like to think that the Scotsman’s skullcutter’s main upside is that it can random crit, and valve knows it
I believe the Scotman Skullcutter being able to random crit helps offset of the biggest downside it has, which is a reduced movement speed.
Shields on demoknight is all about mobility at a cost of explosive damage and range. Nerfing the single aspect which makes Demoknight a somewhat viable and fun subclass is hypocritical. In addition, it has no utility or sustainability of any sort unlike other swords, like shield recharge, healing, or extended charge time. Being at such a close range with enemies, you take a lot of damage, so sustainability and utility are very useful for Demoknights.
Scotman Skullcutter is good at one thing only. In combination with its damage bonus and crit, it can one-shot Heavies. Its all about damage, which is why theyre often used in troll builds for MvM Demoknights. Removing random crits in Scotsman Skullcutter will tip the line from being barely usable yet beneficial to being next to trash.
Because of its slower holster deployment, it cant compete against stock bottles, as the bottle also crits.
Moonman pyro:I dont have random crits but i can stock crits.
I understand why the Guillotine can't crit. 150 damage at any range on scout is absolutely busted.
I don't think I'd consider the Dragons Fury as a weapon without situational crits. Crits are 3x damage, AKA 300%, which the Dragon's Fury does. I get that it's not crits, but it might as well be crits.
Why are so many people making that point about dragons fury. It can still get crits from kritz and intel grab