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Nousagi forgot to emphasize that hololive actually has a base salary and niji doesn't. That's a big deal because we have to take into account that some of the money hololive take returns to the talent as a salary.
@@ElliotKeatonit is back in the day when holo is not even exposed to overseas, but now is much higher probably as holo id who has much2 lower view can live and even support their family from just the salary alone.
Did mention it offhand by showing coco and kanata's clips while talking about the base salary itself, but as the other guy said-- its kind of irrelevant for any Hololive member so I didnt think it was important anymore.
so I wonder... how does holostars get by if their basic salary is still peanuts? are all of them already rich so they can do it as a hobby or are they working 2 other jobs? such mystery
I can just imagine Yagoo giving the shareholder that gave that idea the biggest death stare possible, imagine being that kind of arsehole that says, 'oh, we should just take all the money from the people that does basically everything just so we can have some more', sadly that's pretty normal in people that act as shareholders in companies.
I ideally hope. Yagoo takes the Iwata approach. Promises big number. And any failure. He takes the L personally via cutting of his bonus instead of taking it out on the talent.
the worst part is being a shareholder doesnt mean youre actively investing money. a lot of them just own part of the company to hope they can trade those shares for a profit. the only incentive they have is to raise the stock price for short term gains by increasing the amount of profit the company earns regardless of the means to achieve that. and the easiest method is to take more money from the talents then claim the company is doing great.
I mean, that's how basically how large corporations are run as well. It's all about how much money they can get and report how great they did to shareholders all the while just focusing on the short term quarter by quarter performance instead of looking at long term growth. It's also why after being acquired by large corporations, many companies that used to have such a great reputation start going down the gutter.
That's around 1000$ at most per video so press X to doubt, how many Raid sponsorship you can do before your audience unsubscribe? Not that Riku isn't scummy, mind you...
It does vary, though Hololive is notable for proving what are they spending for: talents (particularly once in need of better hardware), support staff, commissions, properties (particularly that brand -butt- spanking new studio with better mocap capacity), and legal fees tied to all their merchandise and sponsorships.
Rin Penrose mentioned in a stream that idol has pretty generous percentages for their talents, but bc of NDAs she couldn't really be specific on what they are- just that they're better than a lot of contracts out there. we do know that they pour whatever money they take back into their talents though instead of buying a yacht, bc in that same stream she mentioned that idol provides fresh talent with a sure sm7b mic AND goxlr mini (that they get to keep forever without needing to pay back), ON TOP of a $3000 budget to fund their debut before they have to start paying out of pocket. that adds up to like 9k PER TALENT on debut investment which is crazy. this is a pretty huge contrast to what niji does according to zaion's document, where she stated she paid for everything herself and ran deep into the red. i wish i knew more about how holo handles these things but yeah. i think when considering how much money agencies take from their talents it's important to consider where that money they're taking actually goes and if the talents themselves benefit at all from those cuts. personally, if i had to give up 50% of my income and it would help pay for any future projects, i'd accept it. the 1-2% cut makes even less sense when the talents have a direct influence on the product (think lazulight shirts+obsydia hats+iluna cups, they made the designs themselves), though for things like nijipuppets and acrylic stands i understand a little more bc they had little to nothing to do with those- but im just speculating. i don't know why they get such a low cut, this is just how I'm choosing to try and remotely rationalize it lol. i just wished nijisanji actually used the bulk of that money to give back to their talents source for idol's talent investment: th-cam.com/users/livey9dI6Xs6FnQ?feature=share&t=5010
I definitely remember her mentioning that she's able to earn enough from her channel to actively live off without needing to get any kind of second parttime job. Although it likely helps that she still seems to live with her family, so her living expenses are probably lower than a lot of people's.
@@zaleost it also helps that her popularity exploded recently with youtube shorts, she hit 500k recently between high numbers, low living expenses, and a good contract i assume she’s doing pretty well for herself
Idol is a new IP with angel investors. These types of companies dont really expect to make money right away, and at this stage what they really want is market and mindshare and their investors understand that, which in turn leads to higher spending on assets, talent, marketing etc. Sooner or later though those investors will ask where their return is, and we will see how generous those contracts are by then
In every japanese agency it's like this except hololive. And even in there you still pay for your assets and other shit. Outside of that, a ton of vtubers in Niji are full time and your example for the design don't make sense because these are just drawings while the entire production is done by the company. There's merch that are done entirely by them with the original goods but this one don't exist in en. Lastly, they reinvest in the talents, how do you think more than 10 concerts happened this year in nijiJP? With 5 being solo lives. You guys need to look more at Jp instead of basing everything in en. Lastly zaion went in the red because she was a dumbass. She never needed to spend thus much money, as most nijis don't do it in the first place and that's why the debut are simple
You don't really need to search so much to find that stuf in teh Hololive side, Yagoo on an intervies the infamosu AKB48 explains the process, they give the talents a company phone that has the app, and also the pay for the model and some other stuff he was saying that is aroun 3k to 4k to debut a new talent, but that was in early 2020 we don't really know how it has changed in the past 3 years.
Don't forget that the money that Cover Corp got was used to support their Talent as proof when the CEO of the next agency bought Yatch, Covers Corp bought Studio for $ 20 million, And Talent Hololive gets a monthly salary
@@kingsonsofaru423 From 4chan source, it's believed to be real, but it is taken down very fast. Nonetheless, it doesn't matter because Nijisanji business model seems to only care for the successful talents, and left others in demise. And their management also looks very shabby in work and focusing to protect the company, not the talents.
Hololive actually played around with Stream labs but I assume the risk of things like charge backs scared them off. Using Superchats and Twitch bits still has that safety net versus direct donations,
I don't know the specific, but the ID members all have streamlabs setup. I believe I remember seeing something about them having issues with superchats in Indonesia.
@@Plainsburner Issues as in it was basically illegal or TH-cam was in a dispute with the ID government, yeah. IIRC that got changed a while back which is why you see more superchats for them now.
Something to remember when deciding if the cut is unfair and how unfair is what the company provides for their cut to the streamer, for example currently hololive seems to provide more assistance to the streamer then nijisanji though skewed more to the JP branch.
They aren't forced to do it. I think they're not stupid. Especially in a company like Hololive. Their talent knows the industry. If it wasn't worth it they'd go indie. Gura and Calliope didn't quit Hololive and they had big channels before. That says something.
Which means them taking SUCH a huge cut is even worse, since they're doing basically nothing for the Nijis except pumping out merch that the talents are getting dick all for. Meanwhile, Hololive's doing regular promotions concerts, hyping the girls sponsorships and collabs, variety shows at the studio...I it and wonder that Niji's seems to have more graduations in a given six month period than Holo's had *total*? (Edit: Jesus christ autocorrect.) (Also edit: Aside from HoloChina, that was a bit of a shit show, but wasn't really Hololive's fault.)
@@Jordan-Ramses gura only uploaded one few minutes long video every couple months and had mostly stopped making videos altogether befor joining hololive. so that argument falls flat. and calli was more or less unknown to most people befor joining as well.
Hololive still supports other branches even if skewed to the jp side(not at all really) while nijisanji prioritizes what gets them money, hence why the id branch is all but gone.
Honestly surprised you DIDN'T talk about VShojo, since Kson very specifically addressed this when she first announced she was joining them. Everybody was like, WTF, why would you go from indie to an agency? And Kson stated that the deal was too good to pass up -- apparently VShojo takes 0% of donations, but 100% of merch sales, offering legal representation and protections as well as technical support in exchange. So a very different business model than either Hololive or Nijisanji, where the talents earn every last penny you give them on stream (aside from whatever cut Twitch or TH-cam takes, anyway), but their merch is entirely handled by VShojo. Now, to be fair, this was talked about by Kson when she joined the agency, and since then, three members of VShojo left over contract disputes. So it's entirely possible that contract got renegotiated and is no longer quite as generous. But if it is, I can definitely see the appeal of that business model -- especially for someone like Kson, who's twice now been the highest superchat earner in the entire vtuber sphere.
She said her contract actually got even better think Vshojo decided they couldnt lose her in addition to the other two and brought some really good terms to the new contract
If what you say about legal rep and protections is true, I can see how that would be attractive to her. Cover left her out to fuckin' dry regarding the Taiwan shitstorm, which is something I can never forgive. I understand WHY they took the poor approach they did, but the choice clashes too heavily with the morals I've had hammered into my head about protecting your own, so it will always be a black mark on the company. The general concept of the business model doesn't allow for sacrificial acts of nobility, since the bottom line is all that matters. On a less acerbic note, if she's content with her current situation, that offers me adequate solace.
@@Cowslippoetry Honestly, I feel like Cover did all they could for her during the Taiwan situation, it was just beyond their ability and beyond their means to resolve amicably at the time. Which sucks, for sure, but I don't blame Cover one bit for what happened, nor does Kson herself as far as I can tell. You've gotta remember, that whole drama came out of left field for Cover -- this was right as they were starting to get really big, and they were NOT prepared for such a massive backlash over something so absolutely asinine. But the fact that they disbanded Hololive China and literally pulled out of the country altogether over this incident speaks volumes as to the quality of their character -- if Coco were a Nijisanji vtuber, I think it's far more likely she would've just been fired and Nijisanji would've just eaten the bad PR in order to preserve their relationship with the Chinese market, but Cover chose the high ground and stood up for Coco, undoubtedly losing SO MUCH PROFIT and SO MANY REVENUE STREAMS in the process. ...The problem is, that wasn't the end of it. Chinese harassment of Coco was so intense after this that Cover simply didn't have the staff at the time to keep up with moderating it. On top of this, the harassment spilled over to anyone else who collaborated with Coco, forcing them all to make their streams members-only (was it members-only or subscribers-only? Might have been subscribers-only, in which case, ironically, basically everybody does this as a matter of course now anyway!) or else just not invite Coco to join them. This literally meant that earnings from any members who chose to collab with Coco -- and thus earnings for Cover as well -- would be reduced significantly for the foreseeable future, and the only way to prevent this would be for Cover to use funding they didn't have at the time (due to having just cut AN ENTIRE COUNTRY from their revenue streams!) to hire an army of moderators. They were kind of caught between a rock and a hard place -- there was nothing more they could really do to help Coco. And because of all the drama surrounding her, they were naturally also being really guarded about what they'd allow Coco to stream, which wound up being the last straw for her and causing her to quit Hololive. But to be fair, if I knew that I'd cost the company I worked for untold amounts of money, and was forcing all my friends to choose between collabing with me or actually making money, I'd be inclined to leave the company as well, even if I knew none of it was my fault. So, yeah. I wouldn't blame Cover for this. Especially since they seem to have learned their lesson, and have used their successes to hire a LOT more staff, and also greatly expand the legal protections they offer their talents since then. What happened to Coco sucks, but she was more a victim of circumstance and -- more specifically -- nationalists in support of a wildly dysfunctional dictatorship than she was a victim of bad management. Holding what happened against Cover only really serves to give said nationalists what they want: "retribution" for the "infraction" that was committed "against" "them." ;) Better to just blame the 50 cent party and the little pinks, as they're known -- the Chinese nationalists who spread their dogma and institute hate campaigns across the internet for national clout.
Now I see why Vshojo only accepts established and successful indie vtubers. If you're not popular enough, you won't be seeing much of that stream donation money.
to be honest, if you are familar with Japanese or Asian music/entertainment industry, 1-3% is the standard cut for merch, niji just forllowed other agencies' footsteps. a high cut like holo is not the norm in japan.
Hololive appears to be unusually nice and supportive toward thier talents compared to the industry standard in Japan which is a good thing since the Japanese idol industry as a whole is considered a "black" industry by most. "Black" is a term used to describe a company that is horribly exploitative and abusive toward thier employees. Hololive talents seem to get a load of support ranging from base monthly salaries to equipment and hands-on managers that actually help set things up for the talents rather than serving as punitive overseers. Hololive even does things like holding raffles for thier talents that include crazy prizes like a million yen bonus budget or a new $1,500 graphics card. More telling is the fact that the CEO is absolutely adored by all the talents.
Nice video DN! I remember Kiara saying that for her salary since the value of yen right now is so weak that when it’s converted to EU she loses so much money. After watching this VOD imma have to invest in more Holo merch and voice packs now lol.
Thanks to that (they paying in yen) so Risu can use her salary to upgrade her PC (she's streaming using a laptop in early days) and even feeding her whole family
@@dioerlangga4958When talking about currency (we're not talking about living cost in said country), strong vs weak currency is based on currency exchange value over time. Not based on the typical number of digits behind the currency (if that is the case denomination is a cheat ability) ID members also suffered to the weak yen because yen ALSO weakened significantly against IDR. It's around 30% drop since the last few years. ID talents have talked about this isssue as well btw.
Suggesting to pay the talents less is just bad and toxic when they are your main source of income. They are literally the representation of the company and if they leave, the company will take a heavy hit. I hope Hololive will avoid suffering from corporate greed and be able to maintain what they accomplish now and more. That aside, how much the company takes from the talent, even if it seems to be on the lower side is still a very small representation of "fair" it is. In hololive, we know that when they want to make personal covers mv etc, they do get an allocated amount. Only when they exceed do they need to cover the extras with their own money. I believe this applies to other things like merchs as well. And it's good that all "official" stuff are fully covered by the company. And if we look further, Hololive does plenty of things to reinvest what they take back into their talents, like the new massive studio, and other projects like Holoearth, which can allow them to get a larger share without relying on outsiders. Honestly, the talents have more to gain than lose with all these benefits they are getting. Not sure about how Nijisanji does in regards to this part however as I'm mainly a Hololive watcher.
Cover's financial report for the last fiscal year showed that their operating profit was 3417 million JPY. Also, it can be seen from the chart that the remuneration for talents is slightly higher than 4 billion JPY.
I always thought Holo merch is produced based on sales numbers during the sales period, given that said merch arrives almost always nearly a year later. So the actual risk for the talents while not 0 should be absolutely managable, right? Is it known what Lamy was talking about when she mentioned going into the red, maybe her branded sake?
I think she later clarified...or maybe I'm thinking of someone else...that she meant her expenditures were higher than her income for a bit, rather than her being in actual debt. IE, she had plenty of savings to live off until that stabilized.
Even when you are producing based on sales, there is always either a minimum number that they need to hit or the manufacturing companies required a deposit; otherwise the cost of production is too high since these are consider one time special orders. So my guess, as someone that works in manufacturing, Lamy likely had to put down a deposit for her merch putting her on the red for a while. I really hope it was not that she missed her Minimum order target and had to buy the rest herself, this is the high risk portion of that argument usually.
@@jermfbLamy has one of the fattest ratios of viewer count to donation, I'd imagine someone with that kind of popularity is never going to not hit that threshold.
There's also a few things about Hololive talents talking about how Merch/Ticket sales gives them more ability to do larger things. Cali talked about how if her blu-ray does well it can open things like more concerts.
I remember one of Rin PenRose short mention about SC, basically youtube takes a cut and if you use iphone apple also take a cut then you will split it with your agency, and if you donate let say on the 1st of the month youtube wont give it to them on the 19th or 20th of next month
ayy, lets be honest here, even though the company sure take some portion of talent superchat or anything, at least for a holo fan they know the cut portion will be invested back for the talent and most importantly for the fans itself. Like the studio for example, that.. how much is it again? 20 mil dollars? that beast is the result of the fans money. That is why people dont mind joining the official membership. People can see A-chan happy and help the company to help their talents. i see this as an absolute win.
Eh to be honest that 20mil studio is likely a result of the addtl capital from the IPO but being public usually means that the company is stable in terms of profitability. So you could still say that it is a result of the Company taking the cuts.
Insiders can also own stock of the company. The talents might have some especially old ones. Exposure and fandom is also a thing. All new Holo gens get big real quick. So it’s actually better that way. If none of the talents quit and seems to be happy about their situations you should think they are in at least adequate conditions.
Should also be noted that early on in Mysta's career he went on about earning his first wage and with that wage was able to afford a bed for him to sleep on. It's unknown whether that full amount paid for it, but if it put him able to I'm assuming during the early portions of their career they were earning more than they usually were. It's possible Nijisanji give a larger portion early on to help said talents although this is just speculation and given their past I'm just puffin smoke.
@@iNeedSleep... Well this is just one instance of them mentioning it, and it was fairly recent that Calli bought a house. plus Hololive does a better job at giving sponsorships to their talents. Niji leaves most of their talents out to dry, even the top dog one's.
@@Tharja-iBWtell me you know nothing about nijisanji without telling me lol even a random en get sponsorship and you want to argue that big nijis don't get it when fucking kanae, fuwa and belmond were in a Collab with McDonald's a month ago. Maybe you should look at actual top earning instead of just look at en, which even in itself it's already wrong, instead of acting like that. Also mysta bought an entire house for him not just a bed.
@@Tharja-iBW thats the closest example i know of but the point still stands that thats not really uncommon. Plus your example is one of the most popular niji streamers.
One thing about Hololive : even though the talents have to spend their own money for merch, and also for making their songs whether it’s a cover or original, and also for their own concert (that is why collabs with big music label is not with Hololive but with the talents themselves like Universal and Calliope), YAGOO allow them to borrow some money to Cover / him to cover their expenses. I bet the company will take some for interest on top of the dealing and licensing fee. So it make sense if the talents needs to push merch, song and concert ticket sales themselves.
I would like to know if that's 2% by profit or 2% by sales because these are absolutely worlds apart. Just as an example a 20 dollar plush can VERY easily be 18 dollars for manufacturing's cut which already slashes 90% immediately, now assume the company splits the remainder 50/50 leaving 50% by profit for Corp/Talent each, and yet 5% by sales each. However I am completely willing to bet the corp does the work of subtracting taxes from the talent's cut so they don't have separate paperwork for each merch drop at tax season. Now it can very tremendously depending on where the live but ill guess a final tax bracket 35-40% subtract that from both corp and talent and they will still have 50/50 by profit but now they only have 3% by sales each. But this has been assuming a 50/50 split, but unlike superchats which are guaranteed profit merch has risk meaning the side that made the initial investment will have a larger split. A 70/30 profit split could very easily mean that for every dollar a fan spent on a talent they may only get 2 cents, but people often mistakenly believe the corp pockets the rest when the corp only got 5 cents per dollar, and that's assuming 100% of the product sold if it didn't the corp would eat those losses if they made the initial investment. Corps are still willing to do this because merch is essentially advertising that they get paid to make, and people who buy merch aren't a complete overlap with donators so it can be a separate vertical. TLDR: a 70/30 merch profit split between corp and talent can realistically be 2% of every dollar spent actually reaching the talent. So if your goal is too maximize the % you spend going too the streamer just do donations. P.S im serous about that bet if anyone can find evidence that halo or niji doesn't automatically retract a portion of the merch sales for taxes ease of paperwork at the end of the year I'll donate another 50 too Nousagi
Cover apparently paid out 910m yen to their 75 talents during April-June 2023 in the recent financial report. That's about 40k USD per talent on average. Of course top earners will earn more. Supposedly the top 20 talents made up 60% of the payouts. That will still put the remaining talents at about 20k USD on average.
Those shareholders better not bite off more than they can chew. It’s fine to want to see a harvest grow bountiful but take more than needed from the tree, you could wind up deforesting it.
A missing data point was initial investment in new talents. I don't think we have info on Hololive when it comes to new talents debuting and how much the company helps provide resources, but we know in the case of Nijisanji (from a now former member) that Nijisanji leaves everything up to the talents, including any costs to get assets made, etc - and that's prior to the talents being able to monetize their channels.
From recent clips i’ve seen, Myth’s debute trailer was made by ame since Hololive didn’t make one. So, ame did say hololive has increased budget for initial gen marketing considering new EN group got a whole animation intro. Can’t imagine how much that animation sequence would have cost. As for equipment, i haven’t heard from any clips that they get equipment or money for upgrades. I think maybe the iphones they use for tracking is given to them for free but am not entirely sure. Vesper does call it his work phone, but don’t remember if it was given to him or he bought it himself.
@@popenieafantome9527 I have absolutely no source for this, but I'm fairly certain that the phone used for tracking is given to them for free as it's essential to what they're doing. I at least remember reading/hearing something like this
@@popenieafantome9527 From what I've heard it sounds like at least the early JP members were yeah just sent a phone for free as part of debuting. Hololive also apparently pays their talents salaries though, though I'm not sure whether or not they can borrow against their first paycheck from that to help fund their debuts. I'm really kind of surprised that Nijisanji doesn't offer a regular salary as well, though that might be why they tend to go through Livers as quickly as they seem to?
The other question is, once you know how much of a cut the agency takes. You then have to ask how much of that goes to executives, how much goes to shareholders, how much goes to the legal team and how much goes to rank and file employees that do necessary behind the scenes work. Finally, also how much of that goes to operating expenses that aren't a paycheck for any of the aforementioned groups. You could pretty much have setups where the talents are getting paid fairly, but the rank and file employees are getting shafted, while the executives, shareholders and legal team are taking way more money than they are deserving of. Though I'd say the bigger risk that you usually run into, is that the executives take a larger cut than they deserve, while everyone but the legal team is getting shafted.
By "legal team" you mean third party legal team? Or in-house? Because in-house legal team are also often paid peanuts 😅 And very rarely companies using a third party legal team to draft contracts and stuffs.
@@thejamesonthestreet given the nature of the industry right now. I'm going to just say both because I suspect it probably varies from agency to agency. Not saying the legal team can't get screwed whether they are third party or in house. Some probably do. It's just that they probably have a few more tools they know of to keep from get screwed. At the same time, given how much copyright law involved and that it isn't mostly black letter law from what I can tell. An executive that isn't complete up their own butt, would have a ton of incentive to make sure they have a legal team that can do a good job. Low paid lawyers might be way cheaper up front, but probably aren't worth it long term. Granted, I'm a lay person. So I could be wrong here and the executive rot is far worse than I realize.
@LtShadowKitsune in-house Legal team is just another employee. They could be on a managerial level, but they're still under contract with the company with a determined salary. While third-party party lawyers mostly paid based on hours, if their job is simply drafting contract, usually they are being paid in lumpsum, and simple contract drafting rarely cost much (granted it varies depending on the Law Firm), and they don't get paid beyond the agreements. This is my personal experience as both in-house Legal for an entertainment agency myself and a lawyer. We don't get paid much for this.
@@thejamesonthestreet Oh, I'm aware that not all lawyers are paid obscene amounts of money. Really, hate how the media has warped the public perception to view all lawyers as trial lawyers, when most don't even step into a court or get paid mountains of money. So here's my question, given that "not that much is relative" could be relative and I do think we have an issue where some are making way too much and that's warping everyone's perception. Would you say you were getting paid a reasonable salary for what you were doing? If not, how far off was it from being reasonable? This gets back to my first post about how the break down is a pretty important question. Everyone involved in making an agency successful should being getting paid fairly. In fact, I'd say it's probably the most important question to ask when it comes down to how any company divvies up the money.
from some of the old videos from hololive id talents. i dont have the link i think it was moona and some other talent said hololive literally changed their life, mentally and financially. in a good way. and kaela kovalskia also used to be have another job other than being vtubers while also still in school/college. but she choose to resign after few months debut. (thats why m chan sometimes get upset / angry to kaela back then) and if we talk in a dark way i would say. there's lots of hololive talents who used to be something/someone else in the past, but after they joining hololive it seems that they are not really focusing being that person anymore or they just like total move on from their past live. also looking to the fact that some hololive talents like to visiting to each other member even though they are not in a same country So i think it safe to say that hololive talent doing preety good with their life rn. *excuse my english
Mumei took a detour to visit Kronii for a few days from her trip back from Japan, that must have costed her a few extra hundred dollars for flight ticket, and she did that on a whim. She wouldn't do such things if she barely met end meets.
Haachama turned off Superchats at one point, and barely anyone cared about their merch sales at all (except Kronii cause of the drama), when I do hear about them, it's about their merch being sold out (like when Kobo finding out Kaela's merch is already sold out in her birthday stream). Kobo also took her whole family to Japan for vacation using her own money. Yeah, they're doing great.
Kinda like the way Hololive doing with merch tho, It encourages Vtubers to make new merch and have to put in effort to advertise for it and when merch directly come from the talent's idea, It holds much more value.
@@Cheesecake_desu Nousagi mentioned in the video that Hololive's reply to their shareholders how they think they're paying the talents fairly as it is, that's the awesome reply I meant.
average Holopro talents remuneration is 180k usd... No wonder the greedy-ass shareholder complain... no wonder Ayame, Gura, and Ina can afford long-ass hiatus... the majority of HoloId are well-off from their income(except Reine shes was already rich before joining Holo,, lol)... Aruran is almost a homeless man and broke before joining Holostar he's now doing really well for himself... Gavis Bettel who just join Holo 6 months ago just bought a house that is becoming a thing for most Holopro En talents...
That's pretty standard cut though in most industry too. Platform takes 30%, publisher/company takes 30-50%. It is still better than almost 90% cut from scummy idol group.
I started playing Needy Girl Overdose recently and so I immediately recognized the soundtrack 😂 Didn’t know it’d make great background noise. Might try it for my videos
I love Niji talents and their vibes with each other- but seeing how small of a percent they get from the company really is disappointing as a fan. I get if it's less than 50%, since there's the company, shareholders, manufacturers, etc. But less than 5% of merch sales is pretty f*cked.
But most of Niji JP is a full time streamer. I don’t think people could be a full time streamer if that didn’t pay the bill somehow. On Niji EN side, Mysta could buy his mom a house. Talents like to Offcollab (meaning traveling into different country, and sometimes goes to JP or Canada) Niji ID is the one i don’t know, but i think Mika have some Offcollab? or am i misremembering it. Edit : I get its fucked that they got less than 5%. But almost all merch and goods is produced by the company and the livers almost got no say and influence in it. IF some Livers is producing and releasing their own merch, the company wouldn’t take that much cut, since the Livers only had to give cut because of Copyright. I think what makes us angry is that we thought merch is supporting our Oshi, but it is, in fact, not. I bought merch and goods because buying the voice pack felt weird to me 😢 (Now i just become a member and send them supas sometimes) And goods have some practical use than Voice.
@@potatoxgaming9466 Hololive being unable to speak up their minds consistently, Bae only dropping her character over a year later, and none of them being even capable of mentioning sexual preferences, race, or addressing issues in the fanbase consistently? Yah... sure... I know privacy takes a role in this, but it gets weird sometimes. Magni's PL was openly bisexual, for instance. Idk why he is uncapable to doing the same in Holo, his fans would be very understanding and receptive. Props to Shiori for taking a much tighter grip on her chat regarding spams and questionable behavior! To be fair, Niji isn't as natural as an indie, either. Being a JP company (or a corporation for that matter) has its downsides. They aren't allowed to talk about piracy at all, for example (and that is considering how important piracy is to keep retro games working), but at least they can complain about workloads.
@@NothingXemnasyeah but thats not force because thats got nothing to do with hololive. Bae character is the same as before except shes less nervous. The issues of the fanbase is not really their problem cause thats all fanbase preferance. Complaining about the workloads that they sign up is nothing to be proud of. Hololive work hard behind the scene and on stream but they know what they are getting into. Now thats something you can be proud of. Magni and irl magni are different the term bisexual is bad its a sexual immorality. Its a chemical imbalances to the brain and its not to be proud showing off. We must hope for him to be better
@@potatoxgaming9466 I am not saying you should be proud of talking bad of your workload. And Bae literally said on stream she dropper her hype voice because that is what fit her model and lore. Also... did you just say someone shouldn't be proud of being bisexual? istg
Lets hope Cover corp doesn't go the way of Anycolor simply due to the fact that they are a public company now. If anything Cover should set and serve as the standard of a corpo v-tuber company and not anycolor. Its always been my fear that Cover corp might start making moves similar to anycolor because they are publicly traded. And as we all know for any company, once you become publicly traded, your morals and ethics go down the drain.
It's kinda a bummer that you didn't mention Vshojo's model and it's pluses and minuses. Especially since we had Kson talk about it at length when she joined it.
In Nousagi defense, I think he still speculated that there is change of contract due to Silvervale, Nyanners, and Veibae leaving. But in last week video Henya confirmed that Vshojo didn't take any cut from her. Here is the proof of link : th-cam.com/video/oL6fb_I0M-E/w-d-xo.html But yea its kinda of bummer especially become Vshojo talent is closer to hiring legal/accounting firm rather than become employee of a company. "You can hire service from legal/accounting firm doesn't mean you belong to them". And also Froot confirm that that Vshojo offer "allowance" to talent, it's not Salary but funds for developing career talent. Like paying models, arrange studio/training/scheduling. here is the proof of link : th-cam.com/users/shorts2jx4y_LAvIM And also Vshojo might take a cut from merch that Vshojo developed, but it's not the talent can't make their own merch and sponsorship. I think there is differences between Merch that exists in Vshojo website and merch that personally created by their own talent. And since Ironmouse and Zentreya able to become member of other agency that it's UTA (United Talent Agency) simultaneously while staying with Vshojo. I believe there is separate line of sponsorship that Talent have which Vshojo didn't take a cut. And also, I speculate technically Vei, Silvervale, and Nyanners should have ability to become members of Mythic Talent simultaneously with Vshojo. But for some reason they decided to leave. Keep in mind that Ironmouse become member of UTA on January 2023 (2-3 months before those 3 leave). Other than that Vshojo provide somekind of protection, recently there is a lot of scam that target lot of western indie vtuber (Ex Saruei from mythic talent). And also Vshojo provided venue meet and greet. there is Logistic and Connection problem that can happen during meet and greet like what happen with Nihmune and Bao. Vshojo even helped Sxhoto and Shylily during meet and greet convention. Its not like noname indie can't do meet and greet, but there is logistic and connection problem that can happen. But then again, I have no idea what the specific contract vshojo talent have all of this mere a realm of speculation.
Voice pack are the best way to support talents usually get almost all the income from voice packs or atleast much higher than merch, its why people push voice packs
I distinctly remember Fauna song that with merch it depends, the return is different. They probably have a dozen different standards since the talents participate a lot on the process.
the cut is one thing, but the help from the company should also be considered, like as sayu said when zaion was ready for her debut, she had to pay everything except the live 2D out of her own pocket, but holo pays for all the debut and 3d debut and member's original music production (only the music, mv is paid by member), plus they have the base pay, and they also get dance, singing, acting classes.
This is mostly not true. 1. Noone says anything about debut or debut budget, but the production value is wildly different between talents, even in the same gen (a barebone debut vs debut with tons of assets and music MV). This suggests either full self paid or only barebone budget at best. 2. 3D debut is true, it's used to be milestone reward afterall (although the milestone itself is no longer significant) 3. Music only production is mostly paid FULLY by talent, with exceptions for music project initiated by Hololive or talent with label contracts. 4. Base pay is true, but it used to be peanuts. 5. Classses is unknown, but I think mostly paid by themselves unless it's something like Hololive initiated preparation classes.
I ask chat gpt even though chat gpt last knowledge is in 2021, I bet the hololive company give their all support to the new talents so they are not required to pay any fees for their debuts. 3D debuts they also don't pay for it since is an important milestone for the talents, and it is considered a significant event for their careers as virtual idols. Then about the dancing,singing and acting i think the company cover. Base pay are big deal it used to be peanuts but that was like 3 years ago, i believe they have increase that since the invest on new studio is big then it must be pretty high rn
Hololive members shilling their often unique merch is some of my favorite content. That said, the idea of shareholders reducing the income for the talents is depressing
There was one vague soft confirm from Cali about almost a year ago when she talked about her annual salary getting cut 70%, due to US taxes, JP taxes, and Cover's share. Some people did the math and concluded that this would mean Cover is taking a 30% cut from Cali's salary. This doesn't really specify either of the categories but this could be a key to figuring out the undetermined shares between merch and sponsorships.
@@turtlegaki1850 Oh yeah, I forgot to add that in. It's not super important to mention, since the focus of my post is on that vague 30%, but I should've anyway.
Japan has very high taxes for immigrants working there, I think is one of the highest or even highest in the world for that type of taxes, specially if they win a lot of money.
One thing about the 1-2% cut that Niji livers get from merch: it *could* very well be that same 50% that they get from everything else. 1-2% of merch revenue could easily be 50% of merch profit. If they get 1-2% from of merch profit though, yikes.
If 1-2% of merch revenue is 50% of the profit, that implies the profit margin for the merch is only approximately 2-4%. If that's really the case then I would say Nijisanji has much bigger issues than the talent cuts...
@@amdrandom 4% profit margin is still *somewhat* serviceable. Bump it up to 8% and it's technically considered a healthy busieness, with 25% of profit now going to the talents. Granted, sure, that's significantly worse than 50%... but still a *lot* better than 2%.
On a more positive point of view, it might be worth mentioning that while Nijisanji talents don't get much from merch, they also don't need to invest any time or money into them (that I know of). It's free money. I wish the percentage was higher, but it's better than nothing. Also as comparison, apparently professional wrestlers make from 2% to at most 5% or so from merch sales.
The thing about Niji is that they only sell merch for a select number of talents (a.k.a best performers). I've seen it first hand how hard it is for ex-ID members to get a merch, even if they want to do it themselves, management still won't allow it. Doing nothing to get free money is nice, but if you only do it to a select number of people, won't you feel frustrated? And even if you want to do everything yourself, you're still not allowed. Is that even fair?
Well shareholders probably only care about profits.I don't know how much power the shareholders have over the company.In some case the shareholders can remove an CEO if they deem necessary. I hope Yagoo won't be forced to cut talent's revenues.
With Yagoo being as beloved by the Fans and the talents, ousting Yagoo would suicide. Not only would the fans rebel, i believe many of the talents would rebel as well.
Hopefully hololive management keeps the majority of the shares so they can have the final word. The problem with shareholders is that they care too much about short-term profit. Meanwhile someone who saw their company grow is much more attached to its long-term success.
I don't think it's wrong even if Cover took a big percentage from hololive members, Cover does their own IT and manages to create events, concerts and even advertisements on the streets of Japan.
With Hololive it was confirmed (one of the EN girls talked about it on stream) that they have a budget given to them to put towards the bday/anniversary merch but if they wanted something special like a plushy they would need to pay out of pocket. Of course if they went over budget then they would have to pay as well.
What makes the 2% cut even worse is that instead of using the money for something like, oh I don't know, a studio, better rigging (yeah, I am aware 3.0s exist, but they should be available for everyone from the start) or even an improved version of NijiScenario, the poor man's version of Hologra, they spend it on a yacht, because THAT takes top priority. Now, I don't know what else they spend that money on, but the fact that, of all things, one of your major purchases is a fucking yacht, speaks volumes. That's why I'm glad Hololive is stepping up their game whenever possible.
I think people don't understand what that percentage means. 2 percent is not that bad. It is a little bad. 4 percent is fair. 6 percent would be good. I think they should get 4. I agree 2 is bad. But it's not what you are probably thinking.
@@Jordan-Ramsesou're delusional if you think that number is good. If the talent didnt give the voice, the personality, and stream everyday then NO ONE would buy the merch in the first place. Only giving that person 4% makes no sense. Literally no business that respects itself in the west would give that little to their talents
@@LeonardoTheMomo It depends what you are talking about, are you talking about percentage after production and shipping+handling cost, or are you talking percentage of total turnover. If it is 2 % after all costs are paid, that s close to criminal.
i think it is better to think of both the largest company like this, they both took the idol culture into vtubing. one makes idol, one release idol; one try to present the good side of idol as much as possible, one is basically just idol industry but didnt hold off on the dark side. the point is they are almost the same, just that one leans more towards the dream, and one leans more towards the business.
I'm pretty sure that there is a clip somewhere of Matsuri saying that at least money that comes directly from youtube, superchats and ads I'd assume, is split 30% to them 30% youtube, and 30% to Cover. This clip is probably some years old by now though
merch and any sort of sale related to the property of the company should go to the company while most if not all ( depending on popularity )of subs/donations should go to the talent ( voice packs are a weird gray area). But that's just a great ideal the truth of the matter is a company that owns all rights to everything about a character can offer any single person what ever terms they want and it comes down to that individual agreeing to the terms or not so there's no debate on that. so for split related issues I'll probably never side with the talent after all it was their choice
Whoever that shareholder is, I bet he invested in both nijisanji and hololive, which is why he knew the nijisanji numbers. His comment speaks a lot. It means hololive is paying significantly more % for their talents than nijisanji. I speculate that If the two companies differ by
I do recall cali (as Demondice) talking about how money is no longer a problem for her. So I’ve always assumed that Hololive at least compensates their talents pretty okay. Granted Cali is one of the more successful Hololive members so that may not be the best example
Actually she may actually be one of the best examples because of something else. She is a American living in a foreign country. America loves their cut even when your don't live there. She mentioned a massive cut of her money went to taxes. She had to pay both America and Japan. The fact she paid a ungodly amount (I think she said combination of the two equalled almost 80%) and money for her was "not longer a issue" speaks a lot to things.
I think I heard about this too. She was working several jobs before joining hololive, after that she didn't have much money issues and was able to quit some of the jobs.
Most of HoloX moved to new apartments after getting their first paycheck. Iroha and Laplus bought new and beefy PCs, as in the exact same parts and accessories lol. Someone told me an anecdote of when Mumei received her first paycheck, she was surprised at the amount. I'm told that Mumei before Hololive had a 1M subs channel, so that really got me curious about her paycheck.
@@Yuushinfx It has to be said though that she was given very bad advice by her tax accountant. Japan and the US have an agreement to avoid double taxation since 1971 so she shouldn't have to pay that much in income taxes. IIRC she mentioned later that she got it sorted out, so now she should be keeping far more of her money.
@@klopferator you are making the assumption that calli did not try to ask another accountant or even speak with other members or cover corp's accountant. I highly doubt she is that stupid when that much money is on the line. Most likely the tax exemption does not apply to her due to some reason, these exemptions are not universal and unconditional.
i try to search a clip from Iofi, maybe it was from 2021, she talk about "monthly salary" after she talk about that, i think other member still got "monthly salary" apart from superchat etc
Lemme know if you find it. People keep saying "monthly wage" but considering I also found people saying it was a mistranslation of what the JP members said hearing the same thing from an overseas member would be nice.
Another interesting video DN. I personally like to give back with gifting memberships. I'll keep stream labs in mind for any other donation. Good to see you have a sponsor too.
I think Vshojo is more like a management company, but instead of vtubers hiring a management team, Vshojo actively looks for vtubers to become their manager. Thanks for the info
I think some time ago I remember hearing Yopi once said like they don't earn much unless all their merch is sold out (and yes id members usually sell their merch in inventory style instead of pre orders) but take this with a grain of salt since I have dum dum memory www
Never had an issue with it instantly selling out, all though to be fair, the Holo Summer acrylic stands did sell out pretty fast (I didn't end up buying them though)
Make sense! I always wonder on why Hololive talents will not get excited when they received red donations unlike independent vtubers who goes apeshit when they receive one.
if a company is good for treating their employee and paid them well,they wont quit easily,the fact that a TONS of niji liver quit the company,remember ex ID literally graduate in batch,yeah batch,not just 1 liver,theres nothing more telling about a company when theres a lot of their employee quit like that,while vtuber from other company just "chill" and stay.
Remember the Yagoo interview that Coco had with him regarding how much they both earn? Yeah, that should be more than enough to paint a picture. Look, at this point Hololive is THE golden ticket and anyone getting in gets at least a 5-8x increase in viewership and donations and that's an understatement. The brand recognition pays for way more than what they can earn in years and that ONLY works if the agency invest in their talents.
_"Remember the Yagoo interview that Coco had with him regarding how much they both earn? Yeah, that should be more than enough to paint a picture."_ Coco was the biggest superchat earner on TH-cam (later alternating with Rushia after her channel spent over half a year under attack with no support). Painting that as the norm for the entire company is just a bit disingenuous. _"and that ONLY works if the agency invest in their talents."_ One of Coco's frequent complaints was specifically that management kept taking her money and _didn't_ invest it in her. She had no idea where it was going and they refused to tell her.
@@ElliotKeaton and digging up how a company handles a situation 4 years ago vs how it is now is not disingenuous? The company obviously still has room for improvement if that's your point but you can say that for pretty much any organisation. And you might feel that 50% is unfair for the talent but no one can put a number to how much the resources, brand name and reach has led to a monetary gain for the talent that they would otherwise not come close to doing it alone. This entire hololive leeching off their streamers narrative really needs to stop because you really don't need business sense, just simple common sense, to understand why it is a terrible take. There's a lot to talk about regarding Kson and how Hololive handled her situation and her as a whole but it's not a one-way street, she wasn't giving Hololive everything without gaining any benefits either. Would Hololive blew up on the international scene without Kson? Maybe not but keep in mind there was a combination of COVID, miko and FBK clips at that time but I'm not downplaying her involvement. Would Kson have gathered a dedicated Japanese fanbase and become one of the most memorable icon in vtubing/Japan subculture if she has never entered Hololive? No.
@@zakumstory225 _"and digging up how a company handles a situation 4 years ago vs how it is now is not disingenuous?"_ You're the one who brought up Coco as the example. _"Would Kson have gathered a dedicated Japanese fanbase"_ Kson's first stream went viral and quickly became the single most watched video on NicoNico. She went to conventions, appeared on TV and was interviewed by a magazine. Kson was well established _before_ she joined Hololive, which is why everyone knew who Coco was when she debuted.
@@ElliotKeaton yes, as an example of how the vtubers under the company has already been paid fairly with all things considered, 4 years ago. And the welfare and treatment seem to have only improved since then if 4 years ago, she was still getting rewarded well. You also missed my point, the brand and anime vtubing has obviously brought her alot more exposure and rewarded her more than her Nico days. What exactly are you even arguing about? You can't ignore any of either points which are pretty much close to facts.
@@zakumstory225 _"yes, as an example of how the vtubers under the company has already been paid fairly with all things considered, 4 years ago. And the welfare and treatment seem to have only improved since then if 4 years ago, "_ 2 years ago. And things improved the day after Coco left because the talent they were singling out left. It's why Cover Corporation didn't slow down on plastering Fubuki's face all over the main channel when the antis went after her, despite banning Coco from it for nine months. _"What exactly are you even arguing about? You can't ignore any of either points which are pretty much close to facts."_ You said that Kson wouldn't have gathered a dedicated Japanese fanbase without Hololive, which is idiotic.
Well, at least I haven't heard anything about salary from hololive talents while opposite with Nijisanji. I think the only complaint about salary recently from a hololive talent is from kiwawa but she complains about the yen overall because of its drop
50% isn't low, especially considering what Hololive does for the talents outside of purely monetary. That's actually more generous than I had expected, though we don't know what that extends to beyond merch?
After the China incident, I feel that Yagoo's balls grew 6 sizes that day. we've seen him in the trenches with his idols. Just as much as all the criticisms about how he failed them, he must have really bad how he failed them and took it to heart. He learned a hard lesson and paid a high price, but he also grew from it as well. So it seems to me. He's certainly is best girl, not because he's perfect, but because he genuinely cares for his idols.
@legendarydigitize2523 it's not so much that other CEOs have no spine, it's that the point of a business is to make money. Yagoo's passion was to make Idols, to find those diamonds that otherwise would not have been found. That requires money. A CEO that priorities passion over profit really should never go public. The vast majority of investors invest to make money not dresms.
Footing, We all know guys are the major fan base, Stars just needs that special breakthrough or capture the right audience. Basically it's an uphill battle.
Most Holostars members have beefy PCs, and within Tempus I know that Bettel is moving houses and Hakka has said that he can support his mom with his earnings now. So assumedly they're also being compensated nicely.
![[Holocure 0.7] Time to grind after much touching grass.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8jmham2fjv8/mqdefault.jpg)
Install Raid for Free ✅ IOS/ANDROID/PC: t2m.io/DepressedNousagi and get a special starter pack with an Epic champion ⚡Drake⚡ Available only for new players
Taking serious Nousagi energy to put up with an infamous sponsor.
No thanks, i rather play some good indie stuff than this soulless, scam, cashgrab game.
Nousagi, you have made the only single raid sponsor ad I will listen to
You actually got a raid sponsor
@@itswickie8545Internet historian's ads are pretty banger though.
Nousagi forgot to emphasize that hololive actually has a base salary and niji doesn't. That's a big deal because we have to take into account that some of the money hololive take returns to the talent as a salary.
According to both Kanatan and Coco, the base salary is peanuts.
EDIT: Just checked. Kanatan said it was 20,000 yen for a month.
@@ElliotKeatonit is back in the day when holo is not even exposed to overseas, but now is much higher probably as holo id who has much2 lower view can live and even support their family from just the salary alone.
Did mention it offhand by showing coco and kanata's clips while talking about the base salary itself, but as the other guy said-- its kind of irrelevant for any Hololive member so I didnt think it was important anymore.
so I wonder... how does holostars get by if their basic salary is still peanuts? are all of them already rich so they can do it as a hobby or are they working 2 other jobs? such mystery
@@ElliotKeaton 20000 yen is about 140 USD, damn that's.... just wow.....
I can just imagine Yagoo giving the shareholder that gave that idea the biggest death stare possible, imagine being that kind of arsehole that says, 'oh, we should just take all the money from the people that does basically everything just so we can have some more', sadly that's pretty normal in people that act as shareholders in companies.
Seriously. That dude is a clown.
My exact sentiments. I feel like he's the kind of person who does that, and you can't argue against VTuber's best CEO or at least one of the best.
I ideally hope. Yagoo takes the Iwata approach. Promises big number. And any failure. He takes the L personally via cutting of his bonus instead of taking it out on the talent.
the worst part is being a shareholder doesnt mean youre actively investing money.
a lot of them just own part of the company to hope they can trade those shares for a profit.
the only incentive they have is to raise the stock price for short term gains by increasing the amount of profit the company earns regardless of the means to achieve that.
and the easiest method is to take more money from the talents then claim the company is doing great.
I mean, that's how basically how large corporations are run as well. It's all about how much money they can get and report how great they did to shareholders all the while just focusing on the short term quarter by quarter performance instead of looking at long term growth. It's also why after being acquired by large corporations, many companies that used to have such a great reputation start going down the gutter.
I bet TH-camrs make more from the Raid sponsorship than Niji Vtubers get from their cut from Niji merchs 😂
Raid do have that dough
Goddam bro that was cold
That's around 1000$ at most per video so press X to doubt, how many Raid sponsorship you can do before your audience unsubscribe?
Not that Riku isn't scummy, mind you...
@@DepressedNousagi The house always wins
@@DepressedNousagi oh man...Nousagi making me wanna play Raid not from the sponsorship ad but from a comment.
Obviously the agencies need money to get off the ground so sliced from the donations will be needed to get their brand across the world
It does vary, though Hololive is notable for proving what are they spending for: talents (particularly once in need of better hardware), support staff, commissions, properties (particularly that brand -butt- spanking new studio with better mocap capacity), and legal fees tied to all their merchandise and sponsorships.
Yeah with hololive the company really does use the money to improve the company and the talents
Rin Penrose mentioned in a stream that idol has pretty generous percentages for their talents, but bc of NDAs she couldn't really be specific on what they are- just that they're better than a lot of contracts out there. we do know that they pour whatever money they take back into their talents though instead of buying a yacht, bc in that same stream she mentioned that idol provides fresh talent with a sure sm7b mic AND goxlr mini (that they get to keep forever without needing to pay back), ON TOP of a $3000 budget to fund their debut before they have to start paying out of pocket. that adds up to like 9k PER TALENT on debut investment which is crazy. this is a pretty huge contrast to what niji does according to zaion's document, where she stated she paid for everything herself and ran deep into the red. i wish i knew more about how holo handles these things but yeah.
i think when considering how much money agencies take from their talents it's important to consider where that money they're taking actually goes and if the talents themselves benefit at all from those cuts. personally, if i had to give up 50% of my income and it would help pay for any future projects, i'd accept it. the 1-2% cut makes even less sense when the talents have a direct influence on the product (think lazulight shirts+obsydia hats+iluna cups, they made the designs themselves), though for things like nijipuppets and acrylic stands i understand a little more bc they had little to nothing to do with those- but im just speculating. i don't know why they get such a low cut, this is just how I'm choosing to try and remotely rationalize it lol. i just wished nijisanji actually used the bulk of that money to give back to their talents
source for idol's talent investment: th-cam.com/users/livey9dI6Xs6FnQ?feature=share&t=5010
I definitely remember her mentioning that she's able to earn enough from her channel to actively live off without needing to get any kind of second parttime job. Although it likely helps that she still seems to live with her family, so her living expenses are probably lower than a lot of people's.
@@zaleost it also helps that her popularity exploded recently with youtube shorts, she hit 500k recently
between high numbers, low living expenses, and a good contract i assume she’s doing pretty well for herself
Idol is a new IP with angel investors. These types of companies dont really expect to make money right away, and at this stage what they really want is market and mindshare and their investors understand that, which in turn leads to higher spending on assets, talent, marketing etc.
Sooner or later though those investors will ask where their return is, and we will see how generous those contracts are by then
In every japanese agency it's like this except hololive. And even in there you still pay for your assets and other shit. Outside of that, a ton of vtubers in Niji are full time and your example for the design don't make sense because these are just drawings while the entire production is done by the company. There's merch that are done entirely by them with the original goods but this one don't exist in en. Lastly, they reinvest in the talents, how do you think more than 10 concerts happened this year in nijiJP? With 5 being solo lives. You guys need to look more at Jp instead of basing everything in en.
Lastly zaion went in the red because she was a dumbass. She never needed to spend thus much money, as most nijis don't do it in the first place and that's why the debut are simple
You don't really need to search so much to find that stuf in teh Hololive side, Yagoo on an intervies the infamosu AKB48 explains the process, they give the talents a company phone that has the app, and also the pay for the model and some other stuff he was saying that is aroun 3k to 4k to debut a new talent, but that was in early 2020 we don't really know how it has changed in the past 3 years.
Don't forget that the money that Cover Corp got was used to support their Talent as proof when the CEO of the next agency bought Yatch, Covers Corp bought Studio for $ 20 million, And Talent Hololive gets a monthly salary
was that yacht ever confirmed? tried to google it before and nothing comes up
@@GreyIsolet It's from 4chan, which is not trustworthy enough, but there is allegedly a picture of Takumi in his yacth.
You must be big idi0t if you take that 4chan troll seriously lol 🤣
@@synnell88 As in a real picture, or just a photoshopped meme?
@@kingsonsofaru423 From 4chan source, it's believed to be real, but it is taken down very fast. Nonetheless, it doesn't matter because Nijisanji business model seems to only care for the successful talents, and left others in demise. And their management also looks very shabby in work and focusing to protect the company, not the talents.
Hololive actually played around with Stream labs but I assume the risk of things like charge backs scared them off.
Using Superchats and Twitch bits still has that safety net versus direct donations,
I don't know the specific, but the ID members all have streamlabs setup. I believe I remember seeing something about them having issues with superchats in Indonesia.
@@Plainsburner It used to be that until recently, superchats were not available in ID and so streamlabs was used as a workaround
@@Plainsburner HoloID used to experiment with several "donation" systems, but nowadays superchat and membership are available in Indonesia.
@@Plainsburner Issues as in it was basically illegal or TH-cam was in a dispute with the ID government, yeah. IIRC that got changed a while back which is why you see more superchats for them now.
Doesn't Vesper have a streamlabs?
Something to remember when deciding if the cut is unfair and how unfair is what the company provides for their cut to the streamer, for example currently hololive seems to provide more assistance to the streamer then nijisanji though skewed more to the JP branch.
They aren't forced to do it. I think they're not stupid. Especially in a company like Hololive. Their talent knows the industry. If it wasn't worth it they'd go indie. Gura and Calliope didn't quit Hololive and they had big channels before. That says something.
Which means them taking SUCH a huge cut is even worse, since they're doing basically nothing for the Nijis except pumping out merch that the talents are getting dick all for. Meanwhile, Hololive's doing regular promotions concerts, hyping the girls sponsorships and collabs, variety shows at the studio...I it and wonder that Niji's seems to have more graduations in a given six month period than Holo's had *total*?
(Edit: Jesus christ autocorrect.)
(Also edit: Aside from HoloChina, that was a bit of a shit show, but wasn't really Hololive's fault.)
@@Jordan-Ramses your right , more so since calli is in with Sony already,
@@Jordan-Ramses
gura only uploaded one few minutes long video every couple months and had mostly stopped making videos altogether befor joining hololive.
so that argument falls flat.
and calli was more or less unknown to most people befor joining as well.
Hololive still supports other branches even if skewed to the jp side(not at all really) while nijisanji prioritizes what gets them money, hence why the id branch is all but gone.
Should have put a picture of a Yacht vs a New Studio instead. XD
Honestly surprised you DIDN'T talk about VShojo, since Kson very specifically addressed this when she first announced she was joining them. Everybody was like, WTF, why would you go from indie to an agency? And Kson stated that the deal was too good to pass up -- apparently VShojo takes 0% of donations, but 100% of merch sales, offering legal representation and protections as well as technical support in exchange. So a very different business model than either Hololive or Nijisanji, where the talents earn every last penny you give them on stream (aside from whatever cut Twitch or TH-cam takes, anyway), but their merch is entirely handled by VShojo.
Now, to be fair, this was talked about by Kson when she joined the agency, and since then, three members of VShojo left over contract disputes. So it's entirely possible that contract got renegotiated and is no longer quite as generous.
But if it is, I can definitely see the appeal of that business model -- especially for someone like Kson, who's twice now been the highest superchat earner in the entire vtuber sphere.
She said her contract actually got even better think Vshojo decided they couldnt lose her in addition to the other two and brought some really good terms to the new contract
If what you say about legal rep and protections is true, I can see how that would be attractive to her. Cover left her out to fuckin' dry regarding the Taiwan shitstorm, which is something I can never forgive. I understand WHY they took the poor approach they did, but the choice clashes too heavily with the morals I've had hammered into my head about protecting your own, so it will always be a black mark on the company. The general concept of the business model doesn't allow for sacrificial acts of nobility, since the bottom line is all that matters.
On a less acerbic note, if she's content with her current situation, that offers me adequate solace.
En hololive ganan más sus talento ya qué reciben un porcentaje de ventas de su mercancía y les pagan otro extra por los conciertos
@@Cowslippoetry Honestly, I feel like Cover did all they could for her during the Taiwan situation, it was just beyond their ability and beyond their means to resolve amicably at the time. Which sucks, for sure, but I don't blame Cover one bit for what happened, nor does Kson herself as far as I can tell.
You've gotta remember, that whole drama came out of left field for Cover -- this was right as they were starting to get really big, and they were NOT prepared for such a massive backlash over something so absolutely asinine. But the fact that they disbanded Hololive China and literally pulled out of the country altogether over this incident speaks volumes as to the quality of their character -- if Coco were a Nijisanji vtuber, I think it's far more likely she would've just been fired and Nijisanji would've just eaten the bad PR in order to preserve their relationship with the Chinese market, but Cover chose the high ground and stood up for Coco, undoubtedly losing SO MUCH PROFIT and SO MANY REVENUE STREAMS in the process.
...The problem is, that wasn't the end of it. Chinese harassment of Coco was so intense after this that Cover simply didn't have the staff at the time to keep up with moderating it. On top of this, the harassment spilled over to anyone else who collaborated with Coco, forcing them all to make their streams members-only (was it members-only or subscribers-only? Might have been subscribers-only, in which case, ironically, basically everybody does this as a matter of course now anyway!) or else just not invite Coco to join them. This literally meant that earnings from any members who chose to collab with Coco -- and thus earnings for Cover as well -- would be reduced significantly for the foreseeable future, and the only way to prevent this would be for Cover to use funding they didn't have at the time (due to having just cut AN ENTIRE COUNTRY from their revenue streams!) to hire an army of moderators.
They were kind of caught between a rock and a hard place -- there was nothing more they could really do to help Coco. And because of all the drama surrounding her, they were naturally also being really guarded about what they'd allow Coco to stream, which wound up being the last straw for her and causing her to quit Hololive.
But to be fair, if I knew that I'd cost the company I worked for untold amounts of money, and was forcing all my friends to choose between collabing with me or actually making money, I'd be inclined to leave the company as well, even if I knew none of it was my fault.
So, yeah. I wouldn't blame Cover for this. Especially since they seem to have learned their lesson, and have used their successes to hire a LOT more staff, and also greatly expand the legal protections they offer their talents since then. What happened to Coco sucks, but she was more a victim of circumstance and -- more specifically -- nationalists in support of a wildly dysfunctional dictatorship than she was a victim of bad management. Holding what happened against Cover only really serves to give said nationalists what they want: "retribution" for the "infraction" that was committed "against" "them." ;) Better to just blame the 50 cent party and the little pinks, as they're known -- the Chinese nationalists who spread their dogma and institute hate campaigns across the internet for national clout.
Now I see why Vshojo only accepts established and successful indie vtubers. If you're not popular enough, you won't be seeing much of that stream donation money.
to be honest, if you are familar with Japanese or Asian music/entertainment industry, 1-3% is the standard cut for merch, niji just forllowed other agencies' footsteps. a high cut like holo is not the norm in japan.
Hololive appears to be unusually nice and supportive toward thier talents compared to the industry standard in Japan which is a good thing since the Japanese idol industry as a whole is considered a "black" industry by most. "Black" is a term used to describe a company that is horribly exploitative and abusive toward thier employees.
Hololive talents seem to get a load of support ranging from base monthly salaries to equipment and hands-on managers that actually help set things up for the talents rather than serving as punitive overseers. Hololive even does things like holding raffles for thier talents that include crazy prizes like a million yen bonus budget or a new $1,500 graphics card.
More telling is the fact that the CEO is absolutely adored by all the talents.
why does the music have Patrick screaming every few seconds?
It's a sheep going bahh it's one of watames background songs.
Lmao, I can't unhear it now
He's just standing there, MENACINGLY!
@@ramrodz31 ah, do you know the name of the song?
you'll get used to it
Nice video DN! I remember Kiara saying that for her salary since the value of yen right now is so weak that when it’s converted to EU she loses so much money. After watching this VOD imma have to invest in more Holo merch and voice packs now lol.
Yeah, the EN branch should at least receive it in American dollars, the conversion rate is a loss
Thanks to that (they paying in yen) so Risu can use her salary to upgrade her PC (she's streaming using a laptop in early days) and even feeding her whole family
For EN maybe that lose but for ID it win if salary paying in yen
@@dioerlangga4958When talking about currency (we're not talking about living cost in said country), strong vs weak currency is based on currency exchange value over time. Not based on the typical number of digits behind the currency (if that is the case denomination is a cheat ability)
ID members also suffered to the weak yen because yen ALSO weakened significantly against IDR. It's around 30% drop since the last few years. ID talents have talked about this isssue as well btw.
Oh boy, she's struggling now, that is going to be the norm for her
Suggesting to pay the talents less is just bad and toxic when they are your main source of income. They are literally the representation of the company and if they leave, the company will take a heavy hit. I hope Hololive will avoid suffering from corporate greed and be able to maintain what they accomplish now and more.
That aside, how much the company takes from the talent, even if it seems to be on the lower side is still a very small representation of "fair" it is. In hololive, we know that when they want to make personal covers mv etc, they do get an allocated amount. Only when they exceed do they need to cover the extras with their own money. I believe this applies to other things like merchs as well. And it's good that all "official" stuff are fully covered by the company. And if we look further, Hololive does plenty of things to reinvest what they take back into their talents, like the new massive studio, and other projects like Holoearth, which can allow them to get a larger share without relying on outsiders. Honestly, the talents have more to gain than lose with all these benefits they are getting. Not sure about how Nijisanji does in regards to this part however as I'm mainly a Hololive watcher.
Me: “When I said we’re going to Raid the video, I didn’t mean this!”
Nousagi: “I did.”
XD
Cover's financial report for the last fiscal year showed that their operating profit was 3417 million JPY. Also, it can be seen from the chart that the remuneration for talents is slightly higher than 4 billion JPY.
>looks at the thumbnail
Why do I hear a certain green parrot?
SIEEEEEGGGGGGGG
Zaiooon
The voices...
Aaaiiiiiieeee
*NO*
I always thought Holo merch is produced based on sales numbers during the sales period, given that said merch arrives almost always nearly a year later. So the actual risk for the talents while not 0 should be absolutely managable, right? Is it known what Lamy was talking about when she mentioned going into the red, maybe her branded sake?
I think she later clarified...or maybe I'm thinking of someone else...that she meant her expenditures were higher than her income for a bit, rather than her being in actual debt. IE, she had plenty of savings to live off until that stabilized.
Even when you are producing based on sales, there is always either a minimum number that they need to hit or the manufacturing companies required a deposit; otherwise the cost of production is too high since these are consider one time special orders. So my guess, as someone that works in manufacturing, Lamy likely had to put down a deposit for her merch putting her on the red for a while. I really hope it was not that she missed her Minimum order target and had to buy the rest herself, this is the high risk portion of that argument usually.
@@jermfbLamy has one of the fattest ratios of viewer count to donation, I'd imagine someone with that kind of popularity is never going to not hit that threshold.
From what i have heard Lamy went in the red on purpose to get a tax cut, which if it's true she's a fucking genius.
@@Ms666slayerit true
There's also a few things about Hololive talents talking about how Merch/Ticket sales gives them more ability to do larger things. Cali talked about how if her blu-ray does well it can open things like more concerts.
I remember one of Rin PenRose short mention about SC, basically youtube takes a cut and if you use iphone apple also take a cut then you will split it with your agency, and if you donate let say on the 1st of the month youtube wont give it to them on the 19th or 20th of next month
ayy, lets be honest here, even though the company sure take some portion of talent superchat or anything, at least for a holo fan they know the cut portion will be invested back for the talent and most importantly for the fans itself. Like the studio for example, that.. how much is it again? 20 mil dollars? that beast is the result of the fans money. That is why people dont mind joining the official membership. People can see A-chan happy and help the company to help their talents. i see this as an absolute win.
Eh to be honest that 20mil studio is likely a result of the addtl capital from the IPO but being public usually means that the company is stable in terms of profitability. So you could still say that it is a result of the Company taking the cuts.
@@SilverMystes1 I...don't think they are, public public yet? Open to investment but mostly private ones?
what kind of shill corpo of an post is this
Insiders can also own stock of the company. The talents might have some especially old ones. Exposure and fandom is also a thing. All new Holo gens get big real quick. So it’s actually better that way.
If none of the talents quit and seems to be happy about their situations you should think they are in at least adequate conditions.
Should also be noted that early on in Mysta's career he went on about earning his first wage and with that wage was able to afford a bed for him to sleep on. It's unknown whether that full amount paid for it, but if it put him able to I'm assuming during the early portions of their career they were earning more than they usually were.
It's possible Nijisanji give a larger portion early on to help said talents although this is just speculation and given their past I'm just puffin smoke.
So was Arurandeisu and he doesn't have as much viewership as mysta does
@@iNeedSleep... Well this is just one instance of them mentioning it, and it was fairly recent that Calli bought a house. plus Hololive does a better job at giving sponsorships to their talents. Niji leaves most of their talents out to dry, even the top dog one's.
@@noe4354 Arurandeisu does work outside of Hololive so idk how much of a comparison that is.
@@Tharja-iBWtell me you know nothing about nijisanji without telling me lol even a random en get sponsorship and you want to argue that big nijis don't get it when fucking kanae, fuwa and belmond were in a Collab with McDonald's a month ago. Maybe you should look at actual top earning instead of just look at en, which even in itself it's already wrong, instead of acting like that.
Also mysta bought an entire house for him not just a bed.
@@Tharja-iBW thats the closest example i know of but the point still stands that thats not really uncommon. Plus your example is one of the most popular niji streamers.
One thing about Hololive : even though the talents have to spend their own money for merch, and also for making their songs whether it’s a cover or original, and also for their own concert (that is why collabs with big music label is not with Hololive but with the talents themselves like Universal and Calliope), YAGOO allow them to borrow some money to Cover / him to cover their expenses. I bet the company will take some for interest on top of the dealing and licensing fee. So it make sense if the talents needs to push merch, song and concert ticket sales themselves.
Now kobo n calli
'take it with a grain of salt' yeah Mysta's certainly a big enough dummy to screw himself over 😂
NijiSisters arent supporting their Oshi, they are supporting the fat UB shareholder.
Sonny and Alban getting groomed by TF2 administrator. What a painful existence
Niji needs more yacht
I would like to know if that's 2% by profit or 2% by sales because these are absolutely worlds apart. Just as an example a 20 dollar plush can VERY easily be 18 dollars for manufacturing's cut which already slashes 90% immediately, now assume the company splits the remainder 50/50 leaving 50% by profit for Corp/Talent each, and yet 5% by sales each. However I am completely willing to bet the corp does the work of subtracting taxes from the talent's cut so they don't have separate paperwork for each merch drop at tax season. Now it can very tremendously depending on where the live but ill guess a final tax bracket 35-40% subtract that from both corp and talent and they will still have 50/50 by profit but now they only have 3% by sales each.
But this has been assuming a 50/50 split, but unlike superchats which are guaranteed profit merch has risk meaning the side that made the initial investment will have a larger split. A 70/30 profit split could very easily mean that for every dollar a fan spent on a talent they may only get 2 cents, but people often mistakenly believe the corp pockets the rest when the corp only got 5 cents per dollar, and that's assuming 100% of the product sold if it didn't the corp would eat those losses if they made the initial investment.
Corps are still willing to do this because merch is essentially advertising that they get paid to make, and people who buy merch aren't a complete overlap with donators so it can be a separate vertical.
TLDR: a 70/30 merch profit split between corp and talent can realistically be 2% of every dollar spent actually reaching the talent.
So if your goal is too maximize the % you spend going too the streamer just do donations.
P.S im serous about that bet if anyone can find evidence that halo or niji doesn't automatically retract a portion of the merch sales for taxes ease of paperwork at the end of the year I'll donate another 50 too Nousagi
BET
@@DepressedNousagi20 DOLLARS
Cover apparently paid out 910m yen to their 75 talents during April-June 2023 in the recent financial report. That's about 40k USD per talent on average. Of course top earners will earn more. Supposedly the top 20 talents made up 60% of the payouts. That will still put the remaining talents at about 20k USD on average.
Those shareholders better not bite off more than they can chew. It’s fine to want to see a harvest grow bountiful but take more than needed from the tree, you could wind up deforesting it.
A missing data point was initial investment in new talents. I don't think we have info on Hololive when it comes to new talents debuting and how much the company helps provide resources, but we know in the case of Nijisanji (from a now former member) that Nijisanji leaves everything up to the talents, including any costs to get assets made, etc - and that's prior to the talents being able to monetize their channels.
This was (and barring new data, still is) how Hololive operates.
From recent clips i’ve seen, Myth’s debute trailer was made by ame since Hololive didn’t make one. So, ame did say hololive has increased budget for initial gen marketing considering new EN group got a whole animation intro. Can’t imagine how much that animation sequence would have cost. As for equipment, i haven’t heard from any clips that they get equipment or money for upgrades. I think maybe the iphones they use for tracking is given to them for free but am not entirely sure. Vesper does call it his work phone, but don’t remember if it was given to him or he bought it himself.
@@popenieafantome9527 They get an iPhone X (might have been upgraded since) with the hololive app preinstalled.
@@popenieafantome9527 I have absolutely no source for this, but I'm fairly certain that the phone used for tracking is given to them for free as it's essential to what they're doing. I at least remember reading/hearing something like this
@@popenieafantome9527 From what I've heard it sounds like at least the early JP members were yeah just sent a phone for free as part of debuting. Hololive also apparently pays their talents salaries though, though I'm not sure whether or not they can borrow against their first paycheck from that to help fund their debuts. I'm really kind of surprised that Nijisanji doesn't offer a regular salary as well, though that might be why they tend to go through Livers as quickly as they seem to?
The other question is, once you know how much of a cut the agency takes. You then have to ask how much of that goes to executives, how much goes to shareholders, how much goes to the legal team and how much goes to rank and file employees that do necessary behind the scenes work. Finally, also how much of that goes to operating expenses that aren't a paycheck for any of the aforementioned groups.
You could pretty much have setups where the talents are getting paid fairly, but the rank and file employees are getting shafted, while the executives, shareholders and legal team are taking way more money than they are deserving of. Though I'd say the bigger risk that you usually run into, is that the executives take a larger cut than they deserve, while everyone but the legal team is getting shafted.
By "legal team" you mean third party legal team? Or in-house?
Because in-house legal team are also often paid peanuts 😅
And very rarely companies using a third party legal team to draft contracts and stuffs.
@@thejamesonthestreet given the nature of the industry right now. I'm going to just say both because I suspect it probably varies from agency to agency.
Not saying the legal team can't get screwed whether they are third party or in house. Some probably do. It's just that they probably have a few more tools they know of to keep from get screwed. At the same time, given how much copyright law involved and that it isn't mostly black letter law from what I can tell. An executive that isn't complete up their own butt, would have a ton of incentive to make sure they have a legal team that can do a good job. Low paid lawyers might be way cheaper up front, but probably aren't worth it long term.
Granted, I'm a lay person. So I could be wrong here and the executive rot is far worse than I realize.
@LtShadowKitsune in-house Legal team is just another employee. They could be on a managerial level, but they're still under contract with the company with a determined salary.
While third-party party lawyers mostly paid based on hours, if their job is simply drafting contract, usually they are being paid in lumpsum, and simple contract drafting rarely cost much (granted it varies depending on the Law Firm), and they don't get paid beyond the agreements.
This is my personal experience as both in-house Legal for an entertainment agency myself and a lawyer. We don't get paid much for this.
@@thejamesonthestreet Oh, I'm aware that not all lawyers are paid obscene amounts of money. Really, hate how the media has warped the public perception to view all lawyers as trial lawyers, when most don't even step into a court or get paid mountains of money.
So here's my question, given that "not that much is relative" could be relative and I do think we have an issue where some are making way too much and that's warping everyone's perception. Would you say you were getting paid a reasonable salary for what you were doing? If not, how far off was it from being reasonable?
This gets back to my first post about how the break down is a pretty important question. Everyone involved in making an agency successful should being getting paid fairly. In fact, I'd say it's probably the most important question to ask when it comes down to how any company divvies up the money.
from some of the old videos from hololive id talents. i dont have the link
i think it was moona and some other talent said hololive literally changed their life, mentally and financially. in a good way.
and kaela kovalskia also used to be have another job other than being vtubers while also still in school/college. but she choose to resign after few months debut. (thats why m chan sometimes get upset / angry to kaela back then)
and if we talk in a dark way i would say. there's lots of hololive talents who used to be something/someone else in the past, but after they joining hololive it seems that they are not really focusing being that person anymore or they just like total move on from their past live.
also looking to the fact that some hololive talents like to visiting to each other member even though they are not in a same country
So i think it safe to say that hololive talent doing preety good with their life rn.
*excuse my english
Mumei took a detour to visit Kronii for a few days from her trip back from Japan, that must have costed her a few extra hundred dollars for flight ticket, and she did that on a whim. She wouldn't do such things if she barely met end meets.
Haachama turned off Superchats at one point, and barely anyone cared about their merch sales at all (except Kronii cause of the drama), when I do hear about them, it's about their merch being sold out (like when Kobo finding out Kaela's merch is already sold out in her birthday stream). Kobo also took her whole family to Japan for vacation using her own money. Yeah, they're doing great.
Kinda like the way Hololive doing with merch tho, It encourages Vtubers to make new merch and have to put in effort to advertise for it and when merch directly come from the talent's idea, It holds much more value.
BAG. BLUE BAG
and there is Vesper whos having trouble promoting his Tea set merch because he doesnt know how to use Twitter...LOL
@@ultimatevexation8782tbh that was funny and i wouldn't expect a professional advertisement from goob
The cuts probably change for each talent. The highest earners may get a larger share.
Hololive's boss reply to the shareholders is pretty awesome
Link?
@@Cheesecake_desu Nousagi mentioned in the video that Hololive's reply to their shareholders how they think they're paying the talents fairly as it is, that's the awesome reply I meant.
oh Eisu~
average Holopro talents remuneration is 180k usd... No wonder the greedy-ass shareholder complain...
no wonder Ayame, Gura, and Ina can afford long-ass hiatus... the majority of HoloId are well-off from their income(except Reine shes was already rich before joining Holo,, lol)... Aruran is almost a homeless man and broke before joining Holostar he's now doing really well for himself... Gavis Bettel who just join Holo 6 months ago just bought a house that is becoming a thing for most Holopro En talents...
Damn I had no idea THAT much was taken from super chat donations (especially when it comes to Nijisanji), I'll have to remember that for the future
That's pretty standard cut though in most industry too. Platform takes 30%, publisher/company takes 30-50%. It is still better than almost 90% cut from scummy idol group.
VOMS and VShojo both took 100% merch cut, but no donos and superchat.
I started playing Needy Girl Overdose recently and so I immediately recognized the soundtrack 😂 Didn’t know it’d make great background noise. Might try it for my videos
I love Niji talents and their vibes with each other- but seeing how small of a percent they get from the company really is disappointing as a fan. I get if it's less than 50%, since there's the company, shareholders, manufacturers, etc. But less than 5% of merch sales is pretty f*cked.
But most of Niji JP is a full time streamer. I don’t think people could be a full time streamer if that didn’t pay the bill somehow.
On Niji EN side, Mysta could buy his mom a house. Talents like to Offcollab (meaning traveling into different country, and sometimes goes to JP or Canada)
Niji ID is the one i don’t know, but i think Mika have some Offcollab? or am i misremembering it.
Edit :
I get its fucked that they got less than 5%. But almost all merch and goods is produced by the company and the livers almost got no say and influence in it.
IF some Livers is producing and releasing their own merch, the company wouldn’t take that much cut, since the Livers only had to give cut because of Copyright.
I think what makes us angry is that we thought merch is supporting our Oshi, but it is, in fact, not. I bought merch and goods because buying the voice pack felt weird to me 😢 (Now i just become a member and send them supas sometimes)
And goods have some practical use than Voice.
I dont really like their vibe its feels forced
@@potatoxgaming9466 Hololive being unable to speak up their minds consistently, Bae only dropping her character over a year later, and none of them being even capable of mentioning sexual preferences, race, or addressing issues in the fanbase consistently? Yah... sure... I know privacy takes a role in this, but it gets weird sometimes. Magni's PL was openly bisexual, for instance. Idk why he is uncapable to doing the same in Holo, his fans would be very understanding and receptive. Props to Shiori for taking a much tighter grip on her chat regarding spams and questionable behavior!
To be fair, Niji isn't as natural as an indie, either. Being a JP company (or a corporation for that matter) has its downsides. They aren't allowed to talk about piracy at all, for example (and that is considering how important piracy is to keep retro games working), but at least they can complain about workloads.
@@NothingXemnasyeah but thats not force because thats got nothing to do with hololive. Bae character is the same as before except shes less nervous. The issues of the fanbase is not really their problem cause thats all fanbase preferance.
Complaining about the workloads that they sign up is nothing to be proud of.
Hololive work hard behind the scene and on stream but they know what they are getting into. Now thats something you can be proud of.
Magni and irl magni are different the term bisexual is bad its a sexual immorality. Its a chemical imbalances to the brain and its not to be proud showing off. We must hope for him to be better
@@potatoxgaming9466 I am not saying you should be proud of talking bad of your workload. And Bae literally said on stream she dropper her hype voice because that is what fit her model and lore.
Also... did you just say someone shouldn't be proud of being bisexual? istg
@DepressedNousagi, that title and thumbnail combo is contradictory
Lets hope Cover corp doesn't go the way of Anycolor simply due to the fact that they are a public company now. If anything Cover should set and serve as the standard of a corpo v-tuber company and not anycolor. Its always been my fear that Cover corp might start making moves similar to anycolor because they are publicly traded. And as we all know for any company, once you become publicly traded, your morals and ethics go down the drain.
It's kinda a bummer that you didn't mention Vshojo's model and it's pluses and minuses. Especially since we had Kson talk about it at length when she joined it.
In Nousagi defense, I think he still speculated that there is change of contract due to Silvervale, Nyanners, and Veibae leaving.
But in last week video Henya confirmed that Vshojo didn't take any cut from her.
Here is the proof of link : th-cam.com/video/oL6fb_I0M-E/w-d-xo.html
But yea its kinda of bummer especially become Vshojo talent is closer to hiring legal/accounting firm rather than become employee of a company. "You can hire service from legal/accounting firm doesn't mean you belong to them".
And also Froot confirm that that Vshojo offer "allowance" to talent, it's not Salary but funds for developing career talent. Like paying models, arrange studio/training/scheduling. here is the proof of link : th-cam.com/users/shorts2jx4y_LAvIM
And also Vshojo might take a cut from merch that Vshojo developed, but it's not the talent can't make their own merch and sponsorship. I think there is differences between Merch that exists in Vshojo website and merch that personally created by their own talent.
And since Ironmouse and Zentreya able to become member of other agency that it's UTA (United Talent Agency) simultaneously while staying with Vshojo. I believe there is separate line of sponsorship that Talent have which Vshojo didn't take a cut.
And also, I speculate technically Vei, Silvervale, and Nyanners should have ability to become members of Mythic Talent simultaneously with Vshojo. But for some reason they decided to leave. Keep in mind that Ironmouse become member of UTA on January 2023 (2-3 months before those 3 leave).
Other than that Vshojo provide somekind of protection, recently there is a lot of scam that target lot of western indie vtuber (Ex Saruei from mythic talent). And also Vshojo provided venue meet and greet. there is Logistic and Connection problem that can happen during meet and greet like what happen with Nihmune and Bao. Vshojo even helped Sxhoto and Shylily during meet and greet convention. Its not like noname indie can't do meet and greet, but there is logistic and connection problem that can happen.
But then again, I have no idea what the specific contract vshojo talent have all of this mere a realm of speculation.
Voice pack are the best way to support talents usually get almost all the income from voice packs or atleast much higher than merch, its why people push voice packs
Nousagi made it. He's comback is completed as a youtuber with the Raid sponsorship
Let's say, the decent youtuber is when they have Raid as their sponsorship, kind of joke, or perhaps?
@@fuisharu Its a mix. You are noteworthy enough to invited in a sponsorship and Raid sponsorship is a meme at this point
@@gerdanbombales well, the previous whole sentence is a joke
7:58 what a scummy thing to say
I distinctly remember Fauna song that with merch it depends, the return is different. They probably have a dozen different standards since the talents participate a lot on the process.
the cut is one thing, but the help from the company should also be considered, like as sayu said when zaion was ready for her debut, she had to pay everything except the live 2D out of her own pocket, but holo pays for all the debut and 3d debut and member's original music production (only the music, mv is paid by member), plus they have the base pay, and they also get dance, singing, acting classes.
That's not true. Debuts are also paid by the talent in holo. And 3d debut and a lot of things are paid by the own company too
@@ausgod538 yeah thats only if they want to add on to their debut
This is mostly not true.
1. Noone says anything about debut or debut budget, but the production value is wildly different between talents, even in the same gen (a barebone debut vs debut with tons of assets and music MV). This suggests either full self paid or only barebone budget at best.
2. 3D debut is true, it's used to be milestone reward afterall (although the milestone itself is no longer significant)
3. Music only production is mostly paid FULLY by talent, with exceptions for music project initiated by Hololive or talent with label contracts.
4. Base pay is true, but it used to be peanuts.
5. Classses is unknown, but I think mostly paid by themselves unless it's something like Hololive initiated preparation classes.
I ask chat gpt even though chat gpt last knowledge is in 2021, I bet the hololive company give their all support to the new talents so they are not required to pay any fees for their debuts. 3D debuts they also don't pay for it since is an important milestone for the talents, and it is considered a significant event for their careers as virtual idols. Then about the dancing,singing and acting i think the company cover. Base pay are big deal it used to be peanuts but that was like 3 years ago, i believe they have increase that since the invest on new studio is big then it must be pretty high rn
Hololive members shilling their often unique merch is some of my favorite content. That said, the idea of shareholders reducing the income for the talents is depressing
They aint finna do it Yagoo will kill them lol
Finally I've been waiting for this
There was one vague soft confirm from Cali about almost a year ago when she talked about her annual salary getting cut 70%, due to US taxes, JP taxes, and Cover's share. Some people did the math and concluded that this would mean Cover is taking a 30% cut from Cali's salary. This doesn't really specify either of the categories but this could be a key to figuring out the undetermined shares between merch and sponsorships.
That was a misunderstanding on her part at the time, she didn't have to pay both US and JP taxes.
@@turtlegaki1850 Oh yeah, I forgot to add that in. It's not super important to mention, since the focus of my post is on that vague 30%, but I should've anyway.
Japan has very high taxes for immigrants working there, I think is one of the highest or even highest in the world for that type of taxes, specially if they win a lot of money.
1-2% is ridiculously low, how is that gonna motivate the talents to promote the merch? Its like shooting at your own feet.
Considering the members promote merch in their opening streams and at twitter and merch is what makes the most for anycolor by far, it's not the case
One thing about the 1-2% cut that Niji livers get from merch: it *could* very well be that same 50% that they get from everything else. 1-2% of merch revenue could easily be 50% of merch profit.
If they get 1-2% from of merch profit though, yikes.
If 1-2% of merch revenue is 50% of the profit, that implies the profit margin for the merch is only approximately 2-4%. If that's really the case then I would say Nijisanji has much bigger issues than the talent cuts...
@@amdrandom 4% profit margin is still *somewhat* serviceable. Bump it up to 8% and it's technically considered a healthy busieness, with 25% of profit now going to the talents. Granted, sure, that's significantly worse than 50%... but still a *lot* better than 2%.
On a more positive point of view, it might be worth mentioning that while Nijisanji talents don't get much from merch, they also don't need to invest any time or money into them (that I know of). It's free money. I wish the percentage was higher, but it's better than nothing.
Also as comparison, apparently professional wrestlers make from 2% to at most 5% or so from merch sales.
The thing about Niji is that they only sell merch for a select number of talents (a.k.a best performers). I've seen it first hand how hard it is for ex-ID members to get a merch, even if they want to do it themselves, management still won't allow it. Doing nothing to get free money is nice, but if you only do it to a select number of people, won't you feel frustrated? And even if you want to do everything yourself, you're still not allowed. Is that even fair?
congratulations nousagi, you're a big yt boy now that you've had your (as far as I know) first ever raid sponsorship!
Well, the 2% cut is understandable. Those yachts won't buy itself, would they?
Kinda forget risu or iofi said
They can borrow money without any interest
When holo id still new
As indo can be seen as the poorest brand
My gawd he got RAID Shadow Legends to sponsor him, Depressed Nousagi moving up in the world LOL
Well shareholders probably only care about profits.I don't know how much power the shareholders have over the company.In some case the shareholders can remove an CEO if they deem necessary. I hope Yagoo won't be forced to cut talent's revenues.
I believe Yagoo still has the most shares. He won't be chased out anytime soon
With Yagoo being as beloved by the Fans and the talents, ousting Yagoo would suicide. Not only would the fans rebel, i believe many of the talents would rebel as well.
Hopefully hololive management keeps the majority of the shares so they can have the final word.
The problem with shareholders is that they care too much about short-term profit. Meanwhile someone who saw their company grow is much more attached to its long-term success.
I love the way you're playing the ad reading. It's impossible to skip that voice
you know nousagi made it as a youtuber when he gets a sponsorship from raid shadow legends
I don't think it's wrong even if Cover took a big percentage from hololive members, Cover does their own IT and manages to create events, concerts and even advertisements on the streets of Japan.
Lmao i am glad you are improving viewers sponsor segment experience I watched all of it as part of the video it was funny
Glad you're getting a sponsor my dude! Your dead pan voice man xD.
With Hololive it was confirmed (one of the EN girls talked about it on stream) that they have a budget given to them to put towards the bday/anniversary merch but if they wanted something special like a plushy they would need to pay out of pocket. Of course if they went over budget then they would have to pay as well.
What makes the 2% cut even worse is that instead of using the money for something like, oh I don't know, a studio, better rigging (yeah, I am aware 3.0s exist, but they should be available for everyone from the start) or even an improved version of NijiScenario, the poor man's version of Hologra, they spend it on a yacht, because THAT takes top priority. Now, I don't know what else they spend that money on, but the fact that, of all things, one of your major purchases is a fucking yacht, speaks volumes. That's why I'm glad Hololive is stepping up their game whenever possible.
wait the Yacht thing was REAL?
i thought it was just a generic "rich guy dumps his money uselessly" meme
I think people don't understand what that percentage means. 2 percent is not that bad. It is a little bad. 4 percent is fair. 6 percent would be good.
I think they should get 4. I agree 2 is bad. But it's not what you are probably thinking.
@@Jordan-Ramsesou're delusional if you think that number is good. If the talent didnt give the voice, the personality, and stream everyday then NO ONE would buy the merch in the first place. Only giving that person 4% makes no sense. Literally no business that respects itself in the west would give that little to their talents
@@LeonardoTheMomo It depends what you are talking about, are you talking about percentage after production and shipping+handling cost, or are you talking percentage of total turnover. If it is 2 % after all costs are paid, that s close to criminal.
Where the fuck are you people getting the yacht thing from? I keep hearing about this, but can't find a single viable source on it.
i think it is better to think of both the largest company like this, they both took the idol culture into vtubing. one makes idol, one release idol; one try to present the good side of idol as much as possible, one is basically just idol industry but didnt hold off on the dark side. the point is they are almost the same, just that one leans more towards the dream, and one leans more towards the business.
I'm pretty sure that there is a clip somewhere of Matsuri saying that at least money that comes directly from youtube, superchats and ads I'd assume, is split 30% to them 30% youtube, and 30% to Cover. This clip is probably some years old by now though
Coco said that on Shitpost Review.
Specifically, that Cover takes half after TH-cam's cut.
merch and any sort of sale related to the property of the company should go to the company while most if not all ( depending on popularity )of subs/donations should go to the talent ( voice packs are a weird gray area). But that's just a great ideal the truth of the matter is a company that owns all rights to everything about a character can offer any single person what ever terms they want and it comes down to that individual agreeing to the terms or not so there's no debate on that. so for split related issues I'll probably never side with the talent after all it was their choice
Yagoo’s the best girl fr won’t let that sht happen to his idols
Whoever that shareholder is, I bet he invested in both nijisanji and hololive, which is why he knew the nijisanji numbers. His comment speaks a lot. It means hololive is paying significantly more % for their talents than nijisanji. I speculate that If the two companies differ by
I do recall cali (as Demondice) talking about how money is no longer a problem for her.
So I’ve always assumed that Hololive at least compensates their talents pretty okay.
Granted Cali is one of the more successful Hololive members so that may not be the best example
Actually she may actually be one of the best examples because of something else. She is a American living in a foreign country. America loves their cut even when your don't live there. She mentioned a massive cut of her money went to taxes. She had to pay both America and Japan. The fact she paid a ungodly amount (I think she said combination of the two equalled almost 80%) and money for her was "not longer a issue" speaks a lot to things.
I think I heard about this too. She was working several jobs before joining hololive, after that she didn't have much money issues and was able to quit some of the jobs.
Most of HoloX moved to new apartments after getting their first paycheck. Iroha and Laplus bought new and beefy PCs, as in the exact same parts and accessories lol. Someone told me an anecdote of when Mumei received her first paycheck, she was surprised at the amount. I'm told that Mumei before Hololive had a 1M subs channel, so that really got me curious about her paycheck.
@@Yuushinfx It has to be said though that she was given very bad advice by her tax accountant. Japan and the US have an agreement to avoid double taxation since 1971 so she shouldn't have to pay that much in income taxes. IIRC she mentioned later that she got it sorted out, so now she should be keeping far more of her money.
@@klopferator you are making the assumption that calli did not try to ask another accountant or even speak with other members or cover corp's accountant. I highly doubt she is that stupid when that much money is on the line. Most likely the tax exemption does not apply to her due to some reason, these exemptions are not universal and unconditional.
Can we say that shareholders are basically business legal loan sharks?
i try to search a clip from Iofi, maybe it was from 2021, she talk about "monthly salary"
after she talk about that, i think other member still got "monthly salary" apart from superchat etc
Lemme know if you find it. People keep saying "monthly wage" but considering I also found people saying it was a mistranslation of what the JP members said hearing the same thing from an overseas member would be nice.
That is an excellent question.
Another interesting video DN. I personally like to give back with gifting memberships. I'll keep stream labs in mind for any other donation. Good to see you have a sponsor too.
At 2% i am happy i didn't find a selen figure in japan. Would habe felt bad if i got my oshi and she got less than the gov tax.
LESGO RAID Advertisement!!
I like how one the most important pieces of evidence is Kson's post, even though she was "never" part of hololive, lol
@10:26 Let's call it fair rather than generous.
Anime viewers often expect merch gives the most because that’s how studios gains the majority of the money.
also,dvd.
I think Vshojo is more like a management company, but instead of vtubers hiring a management team, Vshojo actively looks for vtubers to become their manager.
Thanks for the info
カバー株主総会
五人目質問者
・演者報酬が高く、物販が弱いから収益性が悪い、エニカラー参考にしなさい
回答
・ライバルの内情を知らないが、演者の頑張りを評価してる。物販は記念グッズしかやってないが一般が買いやすい商品をこれから展開します。
I think some time ago I remember hearing Yopi once said like they don't earn much unless all their merch is sold out (and yes id members usually sell their merch in inventory style instead of pre orders) but take this with a grain of salt since I have dum dum memory www
I might buy holo merch, if it didn't instantly sell out.
Man i feel you.
holofans do be clicking like The Flash or Sonic everytime Merch drops.
It either sold out or the shipping cost is higher than the merch it self
Never had an issue with it instantly selling out, all though to be fair, the Holo Summer acrylic stands did sell out pretty fast (I didn't end up buying them though)
Make sense! I always wonder on why Hololive talents will not get excited when they received red donations unlike independent vtubers who goes apeshit when they receive one.
if a company is good for treating their employee and paid them well,they wont quit easily,the fact that a TONS of niji liver quit the company,remember ex ID literally graduate in batch,yeah batch,not just 1 liver,theres nothing more telling about a company when theres a lot of their employee quit like that,while vtuber from other company just "chill" and stay.
Remember the Yagoo interview that Coco had with him regarding how much they both earn? Yeah, that should be more than enough to paint a picture. Look, at this point Hololive is THE golden ticket and anyone getting in gets at least a 5-8x increase in viewership and donations and that's an understatement. The brand recognition pays for way more than what they can earn in years and that ONLY works if the agency invest in their talents.
_"Remember the Yagoo interview that Coco had with him regarding how much they both earn? Yeah, that should be more than enough to paint a picture."_
Coco was the biggest superchat earner on TH-cam (later alternating with Rushia after her channel spent over half a year under attack with no support).
Painting that as the norm for the entire company is just a bit disingenuous.
_"and that ONLY works if the agency invest in their talents."_
One of Coco's frequent complaints was specifically that management kept taking her money and _didn't_ invest it in her. She had no idea where it was going and they refused to tell her.
@@ElliotKeaton and digging up how a company handles a situation 4 years ago vs how it is now is not disingenuous? The company obviously still has room for improvement if that's your point but you can say that for pretty much any organisation. And you might feel that 50% is unfair for the talent but no one can put a number to how much the resources, brand name and reach has led to a monetary gain for the talent that they would otherwise not come close to doing it alone. This entire hololive leeching off their streamers narrative really needs to stop because you really don't need business sense, just simple common sense, to understand why it is a terrible take. There's a lot to talk about regarding Kson and how Hololive handled her situation and her as a whole but it's not a one-way street, she wasn't giving Hololive everything without gaining any benefits either. Would Hololive blew up on the international scene without Kson? Maybe not but keep in mind there was a combination of COVID, miko and FBK clips at that time but I'm not downplaying her involvement. Would Kson have gathered a dedicated Japanese fanbase and become one of the most memorable icon in vtubing/Japan subculture if she has never entered Hololive? No.
@@zakumstory225 _"and digging up how a company handles a situation 4 years ago vs how it is now is not disingenuous?"_
You're the one who brought up Coco as the example.
_"Would Kson have gathered a dedicated Japanese fanbase"_
Kson's first stream went viral and quickly became the single most watched video on NicoNico. She went to conventions, appeared on TV and was interviewed by a magazine. Kson was well established _before_ she joined Hololive, which is why everyone knew who Coco was when she debuted.
@@ElliotKeaton yes, as an example of how the vtubers under the company has already been paid fairly with all things considered, 4 years ago. And the welfare and treatment seem to have only improved since then if 4 years ago, she was still getting rewarded well. You also missed my point, the brand and anime vtubing has obviously brought her alot more exposure and rewarded her more than her Nico days. What exactly are you even arguing about? You can't ignore any of either points which are pretty much close to facts.
@@zakumstory225 _"yes, as an example of how the vtubers under the company has already been paid fairly with all things considered, 4 years ago. And the welfare and treatment seem to have only improved since then if 4 years ago, "_
2 years ago.
And things improved the day after Coco left because the talent they were singling out left. It's why Cover Corporation didn't slow down on plastering Fubuki's face all over the main channel when the antis went after her, despite banning Coco from it for nine months.
_"What exactly are you even arguing about? You can't ignore any of either points which are pretty much close to facts."_
You said that Kson wouldn't have gathered a dedicated Japanese fanbase without Hololive, which is idiotic.
the raid ad kill me lmao
Depressed Nousagi: Doesn’t watch everyone.
Cooksie, “Ya gotta pump those rookie numbers up!”
Still not made clear if it is 1-2 % of the profits of the merch or the sale price
Well, at least I haven't heard anything about salary from hololive talents while opposite with Nijisanji. I think the only complaint about salary recently from a hololive talent is from kiwawa but she complains about the yen overall because of its drop
Ok, so.. it's my dream to be a vtuber.. I want to help people and do stuff.. yeah.. IDK what I'm saying but thanks for the info..
that face when ad. almost makes me want to check it out haha
50% isn't low, especially considering what Hololive does for the talents outside of purely monetary. That's actually more generous than I had expected, though we don't know what that extends to beyond merch?
Ah yes the crux of being a public company. Greedy shareholders. But a necessary endeavor in order to be big. Hopefully Yagoo stands his ground.
After the China incident, I feel that Yagoo's balls grew 6 sizes that day. we've seen him in the trenches with his idols. Just as much as all the criticisms about how he failed them, he must have really bad how he failed them and took it to heart. He learned a hard lesson and paid a high price, but he also grew from it as well. So it seems to me. He's certainly is best girl, not because he's perfect, but because he genuinely cares for his idols.
@@ashrimpcalledhankyagoo has something many ceo's lack
A spine
@legendarydigitize2523 it's not so much that other CEOs have no spine, it's that the point of a business is to make money. Yagoo's passion was to make Idols, to find those diamonds that otherwise would not have been found. That requires money. A CEO that priorities passion over profit really should never go public. The vast majority of investors invest to make money not dresms.
You mean I can go from having 0 to 400,000,000 friends just by downloading Raid Shadow Legends!?
This makes me scared for the future of Vtubers in companies, nothing last forever.
BASED numberandying !
OtsuDN! 👍
Hard to offer a lower contract when successful. But then again, what's goin on with StarsEN?
Footing,
We all know guys are the major fan base,
Stars just needs that special breakthrough or capture the right audience.
Basically it's an uphill battle.
Most Holostars members have beefy PCs, and within Tempus I know that Bettel is moving houses and Hakka has said that he can support his mom with his earnings now. So assumedly they're also being compensated nicely.