TANK GEWEHR vs FT-17 | 13.2mm TuF AP | WW1 Armour Piercing Simulation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- The Renault FT (commonly known as the FT-17) was the first tank to use a fully rotating turret, entering service during WWI. The first dedicated anti-tank weapon of the war was the German Tankgewehr, firing a 13.2mm Armour-Piercing bullet, with the simulation showing its impact against the FT's driver hatch at ~50m.
It should be noted that the actual hardness of the FT's armour could not be determined; due to this uncertainty and how close the simulation is to the velocity limit, in reality the FT may have fared better or worse depending on the quality of its armour. A 400BHN plate with low elongation was used in the simulation. This is similar to the hardness of plates used on the British tanks of the time.
In general, it seems safe to say that the Tank Gewehr would have only been effective under ideal conditions, as its penetrative power drops sharply over range and obliquity.
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Keep in mind that this is under near-perfect conditions for the T-gewehr and from only 50m
This ridiculously close range was to allow for a comparison between the FT and the Mark IV from an earlier video, with 50m being chosen then because there was experimental evidence to compare against
Do you have data about the velocity of what penetrated with shrapnels ?
Plz test tungsten alloy round with back cone with different angles at the front vs 45 angle armour, some thing look like this ==
@@theovaissie2480 the heat map at 0:32 gives you a decent concept of energy. Yellow is maximum energy while deep blue is standing still, and there's a gauge on the left side of the screen to give you some numbers to work with.
At a glance I'd guess there's only about 10% of the energy left in the shrapnel and spalling, which would be dangerous to exposed skin and vulnerable spots like eyes and neck, but if the tanker is wearing leathers and his face mask he might get away with nothing more than wet pants.
@@josephd.5524 I yet attentively looked "colors" but i have hard time visualizing energy without knowing a clear velocity of an object. Agreed on the went pants !
will we see telescopic apfsds vs era on soviet models?
Wow, I would not have predicted that trajectory through the armour
Tried telling you man!!!
That is…. Surprisingly unimpressive pen for a projectile slightly larger than .50 BMG.
cause it is from ww1
From a century before tho
It's pretty similar in terms of size but much lower velocity...but yeah, not that impressive
@@Piglady00 .50 is from the same time, no?
@@Kasian02 anti tank rifle is early ww2 if im not mistake it
.50 cal is mid ww2
Damn that plate cracking looked nice until the shell came through
dem can't believe we'll meet up here
@@BombsAway4613-ue8tx that is wild
I got to hold a Tankgewehr last night and goddamn it's so heavy my arms still hurt from just trying to shoulder it without propping it up. The bolt alone feels heavier than most pistols.
I think I could count the number of chunks of armor that broke off on one hand. This neatly explains why, when I'm playing an early WW2 milsim, my AT rifles need to put so many rounds through an enemy tank even if every single round penetrates (and usually a significant portion of the rounds don't penetrate). Each shot is just producing so little spall that it might, at most, kill one crewmember or disable one component. I've found that the only really effective way to use AT rifles is to mass two or three of them on one target, and even then they have to keep plugging away for a couple minutes.
Soviets used them en masse, dozens at a time to have at least some effect.
What's the Milsim?
@@gelosobrepena4508 Combat Mission. Mainly Combat Mission: Afrika Korps and Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin, since the more up to date entries in the series don't have early WW2 content.
Hey! I played combat mission too!!!! Mostly hotseat mode at parties with my mates back in the day! Often a battle lasted for weeks! Gold times!!!!!
Also this games had the best scenario editor so far!!
That sums it up pretty well. Although they would have some niche uses, most armies were quick to abandon AT rifles in favor of HEAT based weapons (rifle grenades, rocket launchers, Recoilless rifles, etc). Not only would HEAT projectiles have more penetration, but also would do way more damage.
Just a heads up, the FTs driver's hatch panel is 16 mm at 18 degrees. This is more indicative of the FTs round production turret which is 22 mm at 12 degrees.
Although that was cast so probably not 400 BHN
Basically, from say 100m away and at a less than ideal lateral angle, it's armor was probably sufficient to protect the driver, especially if he was wearing any additional protection. FT was a small target, but anyone with a skill with a rifle could easily hit it, especially scoped from quite a distance, but...if that turret looks in your direction, you're going to duck for cover. This is why tanks can sort of handle infantry in some cases...nobody likes to be shot.
This was a great idea for the channel. More of these about interwar tanks and anti-tank rifles would be awesome.
Nice ! I thought that Renault FT would be tough opponent ! Small , cheap , prone to overheating but effective for their time ! Thank you
Sounds like an average renault all right😂
Love the WW1 simulations!
Wait... the little Renault had better protection than the mark IV? Wow, i wasn't expecting that.
Even the Mark V only has 8mm side armor, so they were especially susceptible to machinegun fire on the sides
That spall is traveling at roughly 90 m/s and is roughly 10mm, there's also a chunk of the steel core. The driver is having a bad day. And if he's incapable of driving, the tank is now just a pillbox, it's better not be the only tank in the assault
The FT drivers was fitted with anti schrapnell protection masks to avoid the most injuries from such impact...
What I find fascinating is the jacket coming off and splattering against the armor after the core has been mostly stopped.
Make a simulation of a sherman flying at 4000 ms towards a maus or any modern tank
50 meters and that angle are extremely improbable. There are only two scenarios which make sense for that range: 1)Prone position 2)Roof/Upper floor position. Out of these, prone will lead to worse results and roof/upper floor will result in a clean pierce, as long as bullet won't shatter.
Im quite surpised to learn the FT had thicker armor than british landships.
There's still place for 14.5mm in the future
Can you make polish wz.35 ur vs pz1?
Everyone else's War Thunder experience: "Haha, probably would've said 'ricochet'"
My experience: "Driver died, gun barrel un-existed, engine destroyed, transmission destroyed, both tracks are now silly puddy, turret ring is now a strawberry donut with sprinkles, gunner sights are now the binoculars from Toy Story, driver view port is now a: "Shoot Here!" sign and my tank is now bright orange with high visibility illuminator strips."
That's my T-34 experience, my initial T-72 experience and initial T-80 experience in a nutshell, meanwhile everyone was complaining about Russian bias the whole time and I was just angrily confused wondering: "WHERE," and recently, 2000 hours in, I try the French and I get to 7.3 in a week and a half feeling like I have god mode on at all times xD
Great simulation as always :)
I have heard that germans would put the bullet in backwards into the casing so it wouldnt ricochet as easily, could you do a mk-4 getting shot by the projectile in this simulation, both flipped and normal?
If you told me what my favorite gun was I would unironically say the T-Gewehr
"Steel core? NEIN!, use ze Wine bottle"
Significantly less penetration than on the Mk. IV. I did not expect that.
Can you make T-72 Ural, but with B4C instead of textolite ?
That would be quite effective for sure
I suppose aiming at the vision ports would be eqsy to go through, considdering that it was even a weakpoint for the 7,92mm ammo.
How long it takes to create video like this? Thanks
still asking for the ww1 german stalh with the slaap plate being shot by any of the commen rifles from the period
This thing is as thick as some tanks armor. I am more worried about head.
Oh dear. I hope he had his googlies on.
Very Cool Simulation, I would like to know which material do you use for the missles? Custom material or default from the engineering data?
A tough cookie 🙂
Amazing and funny. Could you do a Boeing 757 or 767 into WTC 1 or 2? Pentagon could also be very interesting. Or WTC 7 maybe? Your choice :)
The amount if processing power that would take is way too much for a single guy with his home computer.
When the Germans realized the bad pen, they are said to have removed the projectile and reinserted it the wrong way around.
Can you please simulate this?
Next do polish ur vs panzer III or panzer II :D
Suggestion: Tiger 1 vs M4A3E2 Jumbo frontal hull armor
Pls make M829A3 (780mm~ DU at 1600 m/s) vs 800 mm of RHA at 2000 m compared to 3BM59 (740 mm DU at 1750 m/d) vs 800 mm RHA at 2000 m
Even better what about a M829A4
@@Fwostylicious A4 should have only 680~ mm of DU + 100 mm of HHS which is to counter the ERA, it would be incorrect to compare the 2 APFSDS in this context
Let me quickly call my contact at Northrop Grumman...
Oh shit, they don't exist.
You care to share your contact?
@@jintsuubest9331 You mean my source?
I want to see T-Gewehr vs Wiesel I IFV
SY Simulations really like the warthunder video you made, it's funny I would like to carry it to the Chinese Bilibili video site, is it ok?
But if I upload it, the video will be marked by me as a reprint video, the reprint video will not make me and you get a penny, at the same time I will standardize the original profile, the original author, mark the original link, so that your original video is known by others, in order to increase the visibility of your channel and the number of subscribers
I am not sure they could make RHA plates rated at 400 BHN in WW1 / early interwar period.
Can we have some .50cal AP penetration through the dural skin of the plane hitting an armor plate?
Something like 8mm of armor at 500m.
Please simulate loitering munition against tanks
later models of tank gewerh could penetrate ft but at that time war was already over
What are you usng to create these simulations?
A few years ago I came up with a short story where a character at one point is using a tankgewehr and custom depleted uranium core ammo to take on using a cobbled together force of BT-7's. I'm now thinking that might not have worked out quite as well as I originally thought it would.
Uranium core ammo with extra-spicy powder loadings will go through a BT-7 like butter.
you could just throw a rock at the bt 7s to kill them
This is a steel core. DU core will be deflected much less. Refer to his 105 apds vs mbt70 vid.
There is really no way to tell how things will play out unless it is simulated/tested.
But if it is multiple bt7, and you have 1 guy with a 13mm single shot weapon...
Your guy will need a very very good hiding spot and a very good exit strategy.
I think your guy would have fared quite well considering their armour is thinner than this and DU is being used
The skin just peels off the round
The lead jacket is substantially softer than the penetrator to give more engagement with the rifling and provide a small amount of normalisation against lightly angled plates
Well, not really what I'd call a good penn but that's definitely enough to need eyepro.
Could you do a video on large tank guns of WWII vs a modern MBT armor? Such as ISU-122 against a M1 Abrams.
the front armor from the ISU-22 was only 90mm and the canon 122mm (only explosive rounds) less power full than the modern 125mm soviet, the front armor from the M1 Abrams is equivalent of 10x more thickness...
@@leneanderthalien I still think it would be interesting to see
Hi, we had an idea for a simulation.
"Does ERA (K1 or K5) help or hinder HESH?"
So, British 120mm HESH rounds against a T-72 with composite armour, first with and then without it's ERA.
Assuming the initial impact doesn't detonate the ERA, does the explosives of the ERA add to or subtract from the effectiveness of the HESH effect?
You'd have to run two near identical sims, one with and one without Kontact. Not sure which version to use, maybe three sims and use both.
They are, after all, big blocks of high ex mated to the armour and then the hesh with fill in the gaps and set it all off at the same time.
How about Japanese Ha-Go vs .50 cal
Or Chi-Ha vs .50 cal or 37mm AP
This simulation just feels wrong. It is very counter intuitive that the copper jacket suddenly gets accelerated after the hit to almost double the speed. It does not make any sense.
Looks like the round poops out its core.
Can you do a Leopard 2A4 with Kontakt 1 or 5 on the turret cheek getting hit by a 3BM46?
What simulator or app do you use
Bad day for the driver
So, could it hurt at least personell or would it be too slow?
there is a velocity view
It would hurt and is debatabley lethal (~125m/s 10mm fragment)
@@SYsimulations Thank you for the information.
How would it do versus side?
I love AT rifles
If I was in that tank i would simply ask the projectile to not damage my armor
Tsar tank vs dora shell
Name of program
Emotional event (not significant) for the crew
Red driver
i dont think the tank geweher was a true 50 caliber, it was a 13.2mm cartridge necked down to 7.92mm mauser, so was just a 8mm projectile with a hella charge behind it
i correct myself, there was a version that was necked down to 7.92mm, but the original was 13.2mm
How 13.2 mm can penetrate sloped 22mm?
by making it go fast?
A .50 BMG can penetrate 25mm at an even further range
Physic... size or caliber is not main factor for projectile penetration ability
@@myopickid4180 yep speed is more important, the germans learn to known that in 1940 with the SA35 47mm french armour percing round : perforation at 100m with 30° slope angle: 57mm armor, according german tests on captured french equipment...
What m/s is it coming though on?
The tip and that fragment are at about 100-150m/s
@@SYsimulations owchie
merde momento
🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷
that driver would be getting a facefull of spall
First!
50m is not an unreasonable distance, if uncomfortably close. Yes its ideal conditions, but a dead on shot like that at the drivers hatch at that range... you could practically smell the tank being that close lol
Русские танки хорошо пробивать .