Unmasking the Melungeon Mystery
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2022
- They are called Melungeon, yet some writers called them “The Lost Tribe of Appalachia." Speculation about their origin was rampant for nearly two centuries. Were they lost Jews, Portuguese sailors, Moors, or Arabs? With the arrival of genetic genealogy, we can now determine the populations from which they were drawn. Join us today as we discuss the genetic heritage of an Appalachian community.
If you are looking for mythical stories of lost Portuguese or Turks settling along the border of Virginia, Tennessee, and Kentucky, you will be disappointed in this video. In this episode, we look at DNA and the reasons for the existence of the group known as Melungeon.
Please note that I am referring to genetic evidence of the origin of people who identify as Melungeon living in Hancock County, Tennessee. Here's a link the study that I discuss: www.familytreedna.com/groups/...
My great grandma Lena Mullins was most definitely Melungeon. She bleached her skin and straightened her hair. Her siblings and cousins were much whiter though. I have many Melungeon lines in Kentucky and I show dna from just about everywhere on the world map. My hair is straight, shiny black and my eyes change green/gold/brown, & my skin ranges from pale olive to very dark olive depending on the time of year.
I have dna and paper proof of a good portion of my ancestors.
On a side note, you’d be surprised at how many Appalachian’s are descended from royal lines. Our Appalachian people are so diverse. It really was the first melting pot of America.
A lot of those legitimate "royal" 3rd and 4th sons and all the illegitimate ones needed somewhere to go make their own fortune. Their families investing them in the "New World" seemed to be a good gamble for everyone.
My great grandmother was said to be half native American and always carried an umbrella (I have her umbrella ❤) and wanted her children to stay out if the sun, I guess because back then anything but white was looked down upon sadly. But my great grandmother's mother was native American Indian and her father was a white man. So she turned out with the darker skin but had BLUE eyes!!
Theres a thing in ireland called the black irish. I dont know if its related or much about it but thoguht id mention it in case it is somehow related or useful. As far as i know they were from south ireland near cork or kerry and kerry have some of the most pure lines...ie most inbred. There were also irish taken from west cork as slaves by black people. Maybe thats related. Its very interesting anyway.
Not that much surprised 😉😊❤️
Iberian celt remember Spain Portugal France Ireland Scotland northwest England south West England all are from Spain Iberian celts as well Basque people the rest is party time even the ancients Americans natives have Iberian celts blood lines from the suloterians ancient people who cross the ancient ice shield from north Spain Portugal France region thousands years Algo ok nothing is new from ancient Europe to the native of America only time up hill down hill is call time travel princess in reality you can say that you are a Latino by blood real simple princess
I’m a Louisiana Creole and my grandma spoke of the Melungeon people that way. We were always told that Melungeons were black. As you know, South Louisiana is enriched in the Creole culture that is very similar to being Melungeon, but very many Creoles were white passing and moved away. A good story would be that of Anatole Broyard who’s daughter didn’t discover she was half black until after her father died. Broyard is one of the many common names of a Creole family from New Orleans. My grandmother also said that Elvis was Melungeon.
Like most people in the South, Elvis supposedly had some native American DNA, but he had natural blond/light brown hair, and blue eyes. He died his hair and skin. He thought that tall, dark, and handsome was the ideal look, so he went for it.
Louisiana cajuns and creoles are perhaps the most fascinating mix of enthnicities and cultures. French and Scots populated eastern Canada, probably because of the fur trade, mixed with native Canadian tribes, got kicked out and moved to Louisiana where they mixed with Islanders. Cajun, Zydeco music is the craziest mix of folk cultures ever! And purely beautiful.
I read that his great grandmother was native American
@@BarryVann*dyed not died
Elvis was had no Cajun French in him, y'all crazy he's Cherokee indian . I am part Cajun French I'm white Let him rest in peace
Living in Virginia at the border with Hancock County, TN I had heard various "theories" on exactly who the Melungeon's were. I found these DNA results very interesting but, honestly, not surprising. More along the lines of what I suspected to be the truth of who they were. I do enjoy history, so I knew, before moving here, that not every person of color in the south was a slave.
Well stated, Pat! Barry
Jonesville
And not every slave was a person of color...
@@Susweca5569 Thank you.
Makes me wonder if Abraham Lincoln had Melugeon ancestry in his lineage, with his dark skin color and rough facial features.
My father was always told he was black Scotch, because he had such dark brown hair and eyes, and olive complexion. But as we did more genealogical research we see that his grandfather was from Southern Germany, and had the same coloration as my dad. I think of it as a Mediterranean complexion. I assume his Scotch line was dark as well. Genetics are so interesting and exciting.
Jane, Europe is rather small, so southern Germany is not far from northern Italy. Two weeks ago, I drove from near the German border in Switzerland and 3.5 hours later, I was in Italy. Take a look at Sandra Bullock. She's half German.
Italian, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese!
@@ScottD-44 What about those ethnicities? They have nothing to do with Melungeons.
@@BarryVann 😊7😊 you😊😅
It’s Scottish, scotch is a drink.
My father was born and raised in Hancock Co. He and his siblings were not particularly dark skinned, but their coloring was unusual. Their mother was a chimera, having one blue eye and one brown eye. Going to Kyle's Ford is a trippy thing...like stepping back in time.
Thanks, Earthcat! That's one of the reasons why they chose to live there. It was remote and people would leave them alone. Barry
My name is Bill Cathcart@@BarryVann
Hi Bill, thanks for sharing your name with me. I enjoy interacting with folks who share similar interests. @@williamcathcart7994
Thanks! I did both '23 and Me' & 'Ancestry' DNA tests in 2003. Both supported that I am a Melungeon descendant: I show 'White', but have ~3.1% African, ~1.5% Native American, & ~12% Portuguese DNA, suggesting an 'early influx'. My grandmother came from SE Kentucky; her family said they were 'Indian & Portuguese' to explain their darker complexions.
Thomas, that's about how much African they would have today.
I'm a melungeon. I hadmy DNA tested. It was native American, sub Saharan African, Sephardic jew, Irish and Portuguese
Darcy, thanks for watching and for writing. You are one of a few people who have actually tested for their ancestry. Good for you! Barry
Dear God, from my ancestry tree alone, I've traced almost every line back to the first white settlers who came here & got back that I'm Lenape, Catawba, black, Irish, English, Scottish, Dutch, French, German & Norwegian, plus Ashkenazi, Polish & German, from my dad's side.
@@MrChristianDT LOL. Sounds like my family. Too many to pick a side.
You have exactly the correct mixture for a true, original Melungeon. The sub Saharan African is actually Moorish whose people occupied and controlled Spain and Portugal for over 700 years from 700 AD to 1492 AD. The Jews accompanied the Moorish rulers and served as artisans and bankers for them.
During this long period, many mixed marriages occurred between all four groups .
Even the royal families of Spain and Portugal had Jewish and Moorish ancestry
Columbus sailed with plenty of Jewish/Moorish sailors who were forced to leave Spain or convert to Catholicism. This continued into the 1600's as the Dutch, Portuguese and Spanish traded with the Virginia Colonists.
Once in Virginia, these Melungeons were marginalized into western frontier where they were readily accepted by the local Indians. Their marriage into the tribes allowed them the unique opportunity to have trade between the Indians and the colonists. Many famous Long Hunters being mostly Scott-Irish did the same thing like the Benge and Gist Families. The Indian Benge line actually changed their name to Bunch to disassociate from the infamous Chief Bob Benge. During the Trail of Tears, many of the Benge/Bunch Family as well as other Melungeon Families were given the option of going to Oklahoma or return to Virginia or go to Kentucky to avoid removal. Noted among these was King David Benge/Bunch who settled in Clay Co., KY on the Big Sandy River in 1835.
My dad uncle was married to a woman whos madien name was Benge this is so cool.
Very interesting lecture on the history of the Melungeons. In Robeson County, NC, there are the Lumbees who are part Indian and part White and part Black, as a DNA study has shown. Some are part Indian and part white while others are part Indian and part black. Then you have others who have the same Lumbee surname but are only white. To add to the mix, there are some Tuscarora Indians who are federally recognized also in Robeson County, while the Lumbee are not. Many people are unaware that there was a fair amount of mixing between black/whites/Native Americans in Virginia. Until about the 1650's I believe, then marriages between blacks and whites became illegal. Marriages could no longer be performed in Virginia between them. That is when the "rule" about who was born a slave came into being. The children of black female slaves and white men were slaves, while the children of white females and black male slaves were born free. Many lived among some of the Native American tribes and some tribes became so mixed, that they were no longer recognized like the Gingaskin Indians in the Eastern Shore of VA. This was in the early to mid 1800's. Many also moved further South to North Carolina, then to South Carolina and Georgia. At least in NC, you have to be very careful about last names. There are surnames that associated with the Lumbee and other associated Native Americans that white/black/Native American peoples all use.
As for the Lumbees, they may have been Native American and White originally. Why do I say this? Because when that area was first settled, the colonists came upon them and found them to be English speaking, with typical English names and blue eyes and fair skin. Whether they were part of the Lost Colony who intermarried with the Native Americans, who can say. But certainly as time went on, they intermarried/mixed with Black slaves and you have the current population of today. They consider themselves Native Americans, but have no Native language but do have some Native practices and music. However, they are state recognized, but not federally recognized. There are quite a few Native American tribes in both South and North Carolina from the Peedee area who may actually be part of the same Native group. But the Peedee tribe is not known for being a mixed group like the Lumbees, but others in SC do have similar stories.
Thanks, Jean. I have read some about the Lumbee folk. You added to my knowledge, so thank you! Barry
I have a lot of ancestors from Robeson (NC) and to this day... still connect to cousins there. All along the Pee dee as well ( South Carolina) Marlboro, Dillon,Latta Chesterfield and Cheraw areas. I have a handful of cousins with Native haplogroups, yet they are pretty much European in mixture. Also have cousins with African and Western Asian haplogroups. I show Egyptian and West African. That's what got me into looking into melungeons. Those ancestors are all my brick walls.
I connect to a lot of Goins.. I have found some Mullins in my line and connect to Mullins, connect to people with Bunch, I have Evans in my line too. Moore, Gibson, Crawford are also in my line.
I dated a Lumbee for one date@@BarryVann
I'm almost a year late but I just wanted to say wow, this is fascinating! And interestingly as I just started to read your first paragraph above, maybe it was just the timeline and location, but my mind drifted to the Lost Colony. And I was like "nope, gotta focus here, we're talking about something else" (I am fascinated by the Lost Colony, but figured I was just projecting my own hope). And then in the next section, you mention a possible Lost Colony connection, too, and I was going YES!!!!!!
Anyway it would be cool to think about for further research. Thank you so much for sharing this new-to-me info!
Thank you so much Barry this explains so much about some of my heritage and unanswered questions I have had about this group of people. I really appreciate this video so much.
You are most welcome, Lisa! Barry
Glad to have found you. Have been lightly studying the Appalachia for a while now. Looking forward to follow your quests.
Thanks, Greg, I hope you find the episodes interesting. Barry
My Grandmother referred to herself as Black Irish. Not because she had African in her, but because she had olive skin and dark hair.
The original Irish (thousands of years ago) came up from the Mediterranean, so that could be where those traits originated.
@@BarryVann possibly, but my DNA only shows Northern European...
@@BarryVann Irish are just Northern European genetically. Irish are in fact a little more north shifted genetically than the English.
We all African in reality Ms 😂
I'm from Appalachian country, both parents were, near the Kentucky/ Virginia State line, my DNA had heavy Scottish and Irish, with Welsh ancestry, however there was Portugal and Spain DNA.
I have similar dna results as you. Never, ever did I know of any Portuguese-Spanish relatives. But of course, relatives talked about an Indian grandmother. I bet she was Portuguese-Spanish.
I've been researching all this in my own family tree. My family identified, not as Melungeon, but as Blackfoot. However, I think the difference, at this point, is entirely negligent. So, we are a mix of White, Black & Native American. Albeit, by this point in history, we are mostly white &, irregardless of physical looks, I don't think a single person among us is above 10% Native. Most of us, it's so low that it's within the margin of error on most DNA tests & may not come up at all. Most of our Native ancestors, assuming we could track them down on our family trees & verify their existences, were between 200-300 years back. We mixed blood back & forth between people that were varying degrees of Native & Black ancestry & those of pure white ancestry so many times that our genetics became unstable & people are born with wildly varying physical features, some of whom can look very Native American in appearance. Most of our Native ancestors came from completely random tribes & were loners, but all of us who ended up within a certain proximity to one another eventually ended up related, just because there came a point in history where no one else wanted us, but our own. We already know that whites rejected us, but apparently blacks & Natives also didn't want our kind around, for their own reasons, between the mid-1800s- mid-1900s. Other than those who identify as Melungeons, there are also two different groups who identify as Blackfoot (one from Georgia & one from West Virginia) & the rest claim vague "Cherokee" ancestry, but we are all from Appalchia & pretty much all the same thing. What I am beginning to think happened is that we had ancestors who were half Native & half white who got stuck between the animosity between those two races, felt the need to overly represent as one side or the other in order to have a place & went with the white side, but their descendants were never accepted as fully white & were relegated to second class citizenship, anyway. Later, when we ended up trapped between all three races, the only one that wasn't around to tell us we weren't wanted were the Natives, so many of us began to swing back & overly identify with our Native ancestry again, despite a lot of us not really knowing what it had been, who our Native ancestor(s) were, or what tribe they were, so they pieced together what little bit they knew with a bunch of nonsense they made up. I know we're pretty much all mixed between the three. I was able to verify two Native ancestors & one black ancestor in my own family tree. Someone told me Melungeons had a distinctive racial mark, where, when they tanned really dark, their elbows & knees end up with an even darkersplotches. My mother was one who had a really strong Native look & had those elbows, yet we identified as Blackfoot, not Melungeon. Not that I think it helps anyone else, but my two Native ancestors were Lenape & Catawba. I imagine there may be others who were Shawnee, too, but I've never been able to verify it.
What little history I was able to gather across the board is that the word Hillbilly was coined during the eugenics movement of the late 1800s to mark us as an ethnic group. A scientist claimed that people in Appalachia who were stupid, arrogant, needlessly violent & mentally ill ended up that way because they crossbreed with an inferior race, rendering them incapable of blending into a civilized society any longer. People in West Virginia have also noted that people used to call them Guineas as a derogatory term. Black Dutch was also used- I think it's because when the New Netherland colony was taken over by England, many of the Dutch citizens on the coast chose to move to the wilderness of eastern Ohio to avoid potential future religious persecution & mostly only dealt with the Native American from them on, so people likely assume we were connected to them. None of us have any actual Blackfoot ancestry & few of us are likely actual Cherokee. Even if we did prove Native ancestry, it wouldn't do much. We don't have enough to join pre-existing tribes & the way the law works with Native tribes, we wouldn't really be able to form our own, either, because anyone who couldn't prove ancestry would have to be discluded from membership, which is a lot of us, & most of us are from a bunch of rrandom, unrelated tribes. Eartha Kitt, Scott Stapp (the former lead singer of Creed) & Johnny Depp are all famous examples of whatever we are, I believe, albeit several other famous people have lied about ancestry as part of their stage personas in film & music, before. But, that's what I have. I definitely don't think it'd be possible for one of our people to have such dark skin without the "black hair" if we were only black & white alone, as some Native tribes have attempted to assert. We just are what we are, I guess, & we have to live with & be OK with that.
EDIT: If it helps, I do have a good deal of Irish & German ancestry. Admittedly. The Portuguese look the closest to our skin tone, when tan, out of all three, but none of these people share some of our more obvious facial features & that's the part that's losing me. I did find a few Dutch ancestors, but none who appear to be Portuguese. Other than the one Catawba ancestor, I also haven't found a single ancestor who ever lived further south than Central Virginia.
❤
Dude, an interesting thing I learned from another genealogist, would tend to explain some of the cross racial conflicts. Around the 1920's, people went through various courthouses across Appalachia & DESYROYED the marriage records of ANYBODY of mixed blood OR couples from 2 different races. It happened to my Great great great COLLINS grandparents. Their son did 2 shocking things. When his Dad signed with the Union army, George Washington Collins ran off with his BOND/indentured SERVANT girlfriend from the Lecher County mountains & ran north to Carter County, got married along the way under the name G.W. Sexton (his Mom's maiden name) & settled in & was 1 of Rush's(the community/village. etc, name) founding fathers of that part of Carter County.
@@gingerpeters1383 Could be. And, if it helps, I was able to track the Middle Eastern Family in the British isles he brought up. They actually started out in Ireland & were called the O'Dubhloich. Countless verified variations of the name include Duley, Dooley, Duelley, Delay, Dulin, Dilley, Dowling, Dowlin & Dubley. A huge wave of them moved to America in the 1830s, but there were two families flip-flopping on the spelling on almost every other document before then. But, I am only aware of a single family line who had actual Native ancestry, though. That could be aajpr clue, here.
When Dr. Kennedy studied his Melungeon heritage, his DNA supposedly matched with Turkey. People from there come over to visit him.
What I have noticed among my relatives was a whole lot of Neanderthal.
I've heard a lot of the theories, this was interesting and proves one thing for sure, we are all human! Thanks for all you do.
You're very welcome! We are indeed human! Barry
Thank you I always enjoy hearing about Appalachian history. My family is from Southwestern West Virginia. Thanks again. I've been a subscriber for sometime.
Very cool! I'm about 18 miles from the most extreme corner of southwestern Virginia! Barry
@@BarryVann Bristol Va/TN? My family's from Ranger, West Virginia, as we call it, "WEST Virginia the Beat Virginia" LOL Semper Fi
Handcock County is just one chapter in the melungeon story..The Lumbee, Brass Ankles, Red Bones, and Ohio Yellow all have their own chapters as well as the indentured-slave stories..They were all mostly isolates.. The Cherokees also took in all comers and owned slaves..I love the different stories of these mixed people, if they are truely mixed..Thank you for your
work..I had my DNA done and it was of little value as it didn't take into accounts information that I clearly know..I have 2 third GGMs of indian ancestry..one Shawnee.Sarah Cornstalk Adkins and Old Cherew Notoway, Jincy Bowles.
Did your DNA test show Native DNA?
@@BarryVann No, I don't understand why not except there might have been someone unfaithful amongst my grandmothers but I have no reason to believe that that would be the case.. The Shawnee is through my patriarchial line and the Old Cherew-Notoway through my maternal line. I had 22% Scandanavian but I have only one in my line a 2nd GGM, unless Adkins is counted.., I had 2 Adkins Grandmothers. Thanks for the work you do for all of us..Paul..
@@pdrake2572 Hi Paul, I was told by my family that my my mom's mom's mom drew the Indian claim. In other words, she was on the Dawes Rolls. Ancestry.com DNA didn't pick it up, but Family Tree DNA did. It's not much though. As it turns out, she was 1/16 Cherokee. I wouldn't be here without her. We inherit other kinds of DNA that's not considered ethnic. Barry
You're forgetting the Mayles family, aka Chestnut Ridge people, & the Carmel Indians. Also, It would appear all the randos claiming Blackfoot or Cherokee ancestry are also connected. I can tell you that "Yellow" was a derogatory term by Black's for someone who was mixed race, as they associated them to strongly with "House N*****s" & didn't want them around, but that mixed race didn't necessarily have to be just white & black.
How do you only have 3 GGMs
This is something I've never heard about before! Very interesting.
That's cool! Thanks! Barry
Thank you for doing justice to our shared humanity in the making of America. My ancestors are a mixture of English, Native American and west African. Fascinating to say the least.
Good day, Yamal, I appreciate hearing from you. Right now, a rocket is hurtling toward the moon. If we could look back at our planet, it would seem isolated, yet beautiful. That's our home.
If that's true, then are are you masquerading as an Arab!??
Wonderful lecture. I had never heard of them until I saw a movie about a woman who lived in a town in southwest Virginia starring Ashley Judd. Loved you information.
Wonderful! That film was Big Stone Gap, but it looked nothing like the real town setting or its social scene.
@@BarryVann I can vouch for that. My entire family finds that movie absolutely insulting on many levels .. I have old pictures of Big Stone Gap and the store my papaw and family ran. The movie is not even close. We used to enjoy Hollywood movies until that abomination came out LOL.
I was hoping you would do a video on the Melungeons!!! Thank you !!!
Well, what did you think? Barry
Very informative as always! And it put a light on what I have been reading up on the Melungeons and maybe a reason why I showed Iberian DNA (2.7%) .
@@rhondaturner3277 Maybe! Barry
Thank you for addressing this subject. We are Scottish and Cherokee. We were able to retrieve our Scottish background, but due to The Trail of Tears we know nothing about our Cherokee background. Other than my father and his siblings were 1/5 Cherokee. They all had beautiful medium colored skin with pretty blue eyes. I have the blue eyes and so do my sons. But that’s about it. We do know that our Scottish decedents came from a small township called Gee. And that we are sons and daughters therefore we are McGees. And that they were processed through Ellis Island. And that’s all we know. Once again thank you for shedding more light on this subject.
my husband is English and German and all have the same blue eyes. That’s all we know. 😀❤️
The Scots and the Cherokee were allies to each other on the colonial backcountry. I can relate to your story. In Tahlequah, Oklahoma there is a Cherokee Heritage Center (at least that's its purpose) where you can learn a lot about the folks that settled in Indian Territory. You will find that many of the Cherokees on the Dawes Rolls have Scottish names.
I had never even heard of Melungeon people until I did a DNA test...I always knew we had some native american and some sub-subharian African but I had no idea about this ethnicity until my results came back as #1 Mulengeon...which makes a lot of sense to me now. I am brown haired blue eyed but have a large set of siblings, some of which look Native American and Mexican (another type of Native from the America's) my sibs and I range from black hair (truely black not dark brown) with dark brown eyes to light brown hair and grey/hazel eyes..so we are all over...we do have relatives from OK and TN however none of the traditional "Melungeon names fit". That all said I'm just wondering if we should start adding in "mulengeon" under Ethnicity on forms rather than "Caucation" or is that even appropriate?
Thanks for watching and taking time to write! Kind regards, Barry
Peoples?
Caucasian
@@garyfrancis6193 1:55
@@garyfrancis6193 ??? Peoples
I don’t understand what you mean 🤔🤔
Enjoyed the video . Very interesting.. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it, Melinda! Barry
My Grandpa Mullins was born in Hancock County, Tennessee. Nice video
This is something i have been looking for a while. My family on my dad's side are all from that part of the mountain regions of eastern Tennessee and western North Carolina. My dad's moms family have always had a certain way of talking that was unusual from anything I have ever heard. They were dark haired and big boned people. I hope that i can find out more about the Melungeon peoples.
The Melungeon people are specific to Hancock County, Tennessee. There were never more than a couple hundred folks. Do an Ancestry DNA test. You will have the results in a few weeks. If have Sub-Saharan (African-American) DNA plus white, you might just a descendant on them.
@@BarryVann My younger sister did one and it did show we had cameroon, Congo and western Bantu people. I plan on doing one to confirm it also
@@ashe-vf9oc It sounds like you are onto something! Congratulations!
@@BarryVann every European decendant has at least 1-2% Sub-Saharan African
I'm from SWVA and I have some friends who are Melungeon. I remember when one of the main theories was that they originated from Turkey.
Fascinating video. Thank you for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it!
My family were Collins from Kentucky. This information is a long time coming and so welcome.
My family is apparently descendants of Valentine Collins who was a free person of color in Ashe County NC and moved into Kentucky. His wife was Dicy Gibson but we descend from a white woman and Valentine and her son took her surname. I have the dna matches to Valentine's descendants in Kentucky and a Y dna test also connects us to him. Is this your line?
@@slothbros7607 Valentine's brother, Thomas, was my 4th Great Grandfather. Their father Samuel was described as "Indian Mulatto" (DNA 169).
@@GeneRoberts1961 have you done a dna test anywhere?
@@slothbros7607 I have not. I got an Ancestry for my Daughter a few Christmases back. What do you recommend?
@@GeneRoberts1961 Is this on your direct male line by any chance? Have you had your dna tested?
Thank you, Barry. It's through my maternal grandfather's line that leads me to the surname Bunch and that's where I have gotten stuck and unable to find any names past them. One of these days I will get around to a DNA test.
I do hope you're feeling better and things are going well for you.
Hi Janice, if you haven't watched episode 31, it's the show that covers Bunch. Thanks! Barry
@@BarryVann I've watched them all. Thank you for covering all these requests.
I’ve heard rumors that my Valentine Collins is really a Bunch
Hi bunch cousin
Bunch is a Melungeon name. During the 1830's Indian removal in Tennessee,
Melungeons were forced into the removal. Many with the name of Benge changed
their name to Bunch and moved to Kentucky to avoid joining the Trail of Tears.
Fascinating. We did so much moving around back in the old, old days.
The Melungeon people are part of a county that only has 6700 folks. Some of them may have moved off to jobs up north like many other Appalachian people, but the community has been in Hancock County since the Civil War era.
I am tri-racial and both of my parents have one melungeon parent. From what I understand the way you know for sure is by last name, especially for the WV group. My great-grandpa (and grandma until she married) was Croston. It's a cool group to be a part of. Super American.
Thanks for watching and for writing.
Cool, Doc! Seems sorta kinda similar to how the Seminole people began their culture. A lot of my family is in/from the Gulf Coast. Lots of mixing in New Orleans & surrounds for hundreds of years. I’m a glorious shade of pasty pinkish beige, while my sister is almost olive. Got cousins that look Choctaw.
Boomer, I have seen Italians that look Native American.
My great grandparents were from Spain 🇪🇸. My Parents from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷. One ancestor is from the Philippines 🇵🇭. That’s my Mothers side. My dad great grandparents from Spain 🇪🇸, My great great grandfather from Ghana 🇬🇭 Africa was a slave bought to Puerto Rico 🇵🇷 from the Spaniard about 1870. I was born in Williamsburg Brooklyn 1958 from Puerto Rican Parents. I’m call a Jabao witch mean I’m light skin blue gray eyes with a Afro. Jabao = mix. Proud to. Thank you for this educational video friend. Amen 🙏.🇺🇸🇵🇷🇵🇭🇬🇭🇪🇸🙏.
You look like my tio. My mother is from Ponce🇵🇷 and my father is from Cuba🇨🇺 a Yoruba Nigerian descendant 😉 🇳🇬🇨🇺🇵🇷🇪🇸
This was so interesting. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it! Barry
Thank you for your educational presentations ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉
Thanks! I appreciate it!
Thank you for this EXCELLENT and informative lesson, Barry! I am transfixed by the Melungeons! It is my understanding the Portuguese Explorers had Black slaves as they sailed up the River from Florida, and due to fatigue, both Portuguese and Africans escaped into the thick brush to be taken in by Indians. I thought there would be more Native DNA from the results of the study initiated in 2005. Now that I have found out just how Southern my roots are, this was very interesting to me because when I first received my DNA Results, I had Portuguese and Italian, but you know how results could change, so two weeks later I had neither of those, but my Germanic inheritance increased ( not on my Southern Father’s side, no German there). And by the way, for the first time, I understood the Germanic-Scots connection due to your opening! So very much to learn! DD
DD, I am afraid there were no Portuguese sailors floating on a river from Florida. These were Appalachian whites intermarrying with freedmen and women. Incidentally, there are no rivers that flow from Appalachia to Florida. I appreciate your post, though. Thanks!
@@BarryVann LOL! That’s what happens when we watch any old TH-cam video, we get misinformed! I’ll take your information and the scientific DNA results from that 2005 study any day! Thanks, Barry, for keeping us all on the right track!!
dEAR DD , YOU NEED TO DIG A BIT DEEPER WITH YOUR RESEARCH BEOFRE MAKING PRONOUNCEMENTS, AND REMEBER WHO IS REPORTING THE NEWS... THE PORTUGUESE EXPLORERS THAT YOU SPEAK OF WERE THE DECENDENTS OF THE MOORS, AFRICANS THAT RULED THE IBERIAN PENINSULA FOR 800 YEARS ANYWAY... THERE'S MORE TO THE STORY THAN WHAT THEY TEACH IN AMERIKKKAN SCHOOLS
I would love to understand this better. Great information. I’m a descendant of Goings, Gowen, Collins, Ailstock from the Rockbridge Co VA area. My fathers DNA while mostly European, German, Scottish included Bantu, Cameroon and Nigeria. Mine included Nigeria. While records seem to indicate a tri racial mixing of White, Black and Indian, no Indian DNA detected. Would you consider this part of the Melungeon Community? Regardless, very proud of the adversity my family endured.
Susan, it's my understanding that only one person with an Indian chromosome was found among the subjects studied. All of the others had black or white, so I would think that native American DNA is not needed, especially when you have names that are common among the Melungeons.
Very interesting. Being a Spanish transplant to the USA, I was not familiar with the Melungeons, but I’d like to add that I lived with a UK family in the early 80s, taking care of their babies. The father, of Welsh descent, was tall, of very pale skin and very dark brown eyes and hair. He said that people like him were descendants of members of the Spanish Armada that tried to invade England during the reign of Elizabeth I. After being defeated, they tried to save their lives going West, around the coast of Wales and North to Ireland, where people with similar characteristics can also be found. BTW, Spanish people can be very light skinned, with light brown or blond hair and blue eyes. I’m one of those and perhaps I descend of Celts or the Goths that invaded the Peninsula after the fall of the Roman empire.
Thanks! You are spot on. I had a professor (one of my favorites) named Gilbert Fernandez. He was from Spain, so I took him for several classes, including survey of Spanish history.
Both of my parents are natives of Hawkins County TN, as are their parents and grandparents. I attended Rock Hill School as a young child. The people you speak of here are my family, my kin.
Good for you!
Very interesting. I have found more Celtic origins that match my own heritage. Also Native American.
You failed to mention how absolutely beautiful these people are ! All features from skin color to bone structure are gorgeous !
If I commented on the looks of the people that I have known who claimed to be Melungeon, it would just be my opinion. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some were gorgeous, and others were not. Why stereotype them or anyone else?
@@BarryVann
Why withold a fact that is more general than not ?!
I will stereotype your channel as anal !
I know he did have gorgeous skin and is Cherokee .I am to we have high bones. And he had a beautiful soul .But I'm from Louisiana my family settle from France.i am Cajun not Elvis . My husband didn't like me wearing makeup why do you want to hide your skin.So please let him rest in peace. His natural har color was a dish water blonde. When he came to the Louisiana Hayride he changed it sometime after he went on after he did 50 shows
I’ve never done a genealogy test. I grew up in Hancock county Tennessee. I am related to Mullins, Goins, Quillen, Gibson, Richardson, etc. I am dark skinned and I know for sure my great grandmother was 100 percent Cherokee.
Thanks for sharing!
Do a DNA test. If you have Sub Saharan African at 14% or lower then you may be Melungeon. Have to have African.
@@PrettyGoodLookin my aunt has searched public records and has actually made a book of our relatives. It’s there.
@@suburbanhillbilly2999 It has to show in the DNA. It's the only way to be certain. Has to be Sub Saharan African. Take the DNA test.
@@PrettyGoodLookin The tests are all over the board. Documentation is way more reliable.
As a Brit I worked in and around the Appalachian Mountains NC/TN border in the early 90’s, I loved the place 😎✌🏻
That's great to know, in the early 2000s I lived in Scotland and loved the place. I even earned my PhD at Glasgow. Thanks for watching and for writing! Barry
Excellent! Very interesting! Thank you.
You are welcome!
Last part of my research some authors attempted origin of melungeons in late 1800s dr swan Burnett wrote recollection of stories he had heard about them for American anthologist in 1889 , although he saw mixture of white indians and dark hair in groups , he noted melungeons called themselves Portuguese dromgoole included some family history in her articles. In 1950 in form of cultural geographer Edward dissertation on “ mixed blood populations of eastern USA as origin of localization “ . In 1969 anthropologist William politzer and w. H. Brown published their study comparing physical characteristics and gene frequencies in six blood group systems of 177 melungeons in Tennessee and Virginia and worldwide population. They mentioned they derived from English background with African Americans and Cherokee roots wth Portuguese components. Today large number of persons began search for melungeons roots , embracing identity that most of their ancestors denied for some , Kennedy theory of moorish ethnicity is accepted, white others adhere to evidence of white , black and native Americans family lines . Ihope you like my research stay safe blessed good luck to you your family friends.
Good stuff, Khatoon. What an honor it is for me to witness your growth in knowledge and writing skills. Barry
Doing Genealogy in SW VA and East TN I was surprised at the number of freed slaves living there before the Civil War.
So true!
That area of Tenn. is very hard to reach and would provide a great area for freed or runaway slaves to live. People still to this day will hide in those hills to live a life of peace and quiet.
Really enjoyed your teaching here in Washington NC
Awesome! Thank you!
Well that cleared that up ! Thanks
Glad it helped! Barry
Goins is my mothers surname. We have melungeon history but it has always been hidden up until recently. Story was that her father's father was adopted but the records were lost in a fire. The truth was that he was melungeon and hated himself.
That's terrible. God did not mistakes making us, any of us.
I have Goins showing up as cousins. My grandmother was a Jaynes and her mother was a Ramsey
Really interesting stuff. I have Mullins and Gibson. I've run into dead ends on my Mullins family. I trace them back to Eastern North Carolina and I was told they started in VA. But all the Virginia Mullins' seemed to go to NC and then West to Tenn and Kentucky. My Mullins ancestor must have found a woman in NC because the Rev War or 1812 War put him somewhere he wouldn't have otherwise. We have trace Angola in our DNA.
Nice to hear from you, Andy. Like your Mullins line, my Vann line came through eastern North Carolina and before that, they arrived in Virginia in the 1660s. Y chromosome DNA matches support the paper trail. Have you checked your Y chromosome?
@@BarryVann Yep. R-M222
Greene is my family name. We're from sneedville. I'm the more olive complected one of the family. Also striking green eyes🙂
My grandpa is gonna love this video. Thanks!
Carrie, I am happy that you watched the video. Here's some information on green eyes for you: lasikomaha.com/10-facts-about-green-eyes/#:~:text=The%20highest%20concentration%20of%20people,go%20into%20having%20green%20eyes.
@@BarryVann I really appreciated the reading. Interesting how I lack melanin in my eyes but not my skin. I've never had a sunburn , but I'm extra sensitive to light. Genetics are wild lol
@@carrir21 Carrie, do you sneeze when you look at the sun or other bright lights? I do. My eyes are dark blue-gray, but I'm not sure if color has anything to do with the sneeze response.
@@BarryVann all the women in my wife's family (blue eyed, black haired Irish women) sneeze at the sun and I'll admit it makes me laugh.
Love learning about haplogrop (V3c for me) origins and spread patterns!
That's a rare haplogroup! Barry
@@BarryVann Yep, spread thin in small clusters.
The "Carmel Indians" moved to Highland County, Ohio, from Maghoffin County, Kentucky. My Grandma was a Moore, descended from Bryson Gibson, who was her 2nd great grandpa. She had a very dark complexion, but to me she looked like she had more of a spanish or Middle Eastern look to her than native. The dark skin and light eyes still live on in the younger generations as well, but boy, are we a rainbow family. 😊
Thanks, Audrianna!
Thank you for the Melungeon study most people do not want to touch it. Your comment about the Portuguese connection goes along with what my great grandfather said that his grandfather which was my great great great grandfather whose name was David Denham claimed he was Portuguese my grandmother Denham said she also heard from him that his grandfather said they were sailors. My ancestors married in different directions some married into an Indian family and some married into African descendants families mine happened to marry into a Scott Irish family. I guess that’s why it is so mixed up.
Hi Billy, thanks for watching and for writing to share some of your genealogy with us. Kind regards, Barry
DNA and records/ documents are a great resource for my lineage. 4th great grandparents are Collins, Gibson, Nickels, Mullins ect.
Indeed, that's about as good as it gets for anyone doing genealogy.
What are the best resources to obtain DNA profiles? I’m from Greene County, TN. Mr family sir names are Kesterson (material) & Douthat (paternal). I was adopted away from my birth family to Middle TN & subsequently found my birth family who I’ve had in my life for the past 40 years!! I truly need to get more information about my genetic heritage! Thanks in advance. Blessings 🌼
Hi Dr. Allison,
It depends on what specific genealogical information that you seek. Here are a couple of videos that might be of assistance: th-cam.com/video/9DsK-j6JF9c/w-d-xo.html. This one is probably best for your needs: th-cam.com/video/gcUnYLZRuVo/w-d-xo.html
Greene Co., TN was home to a family named Tackett. The famous western
writer Louie Lamour based a series of his novels on the Sackett Family.
However, he used the Melungeon Family of Tackett from Greene Co., TN
as the true basis of his stories.
Thank you professor, that was a great summary. Did you do the name Bobo yet. There are quite a few down here in our hills and hollers.
Your cousin down here in Birmingham used to love gambling. We would be at the gun club shooting trap and he would suddenly announce that he had a hundred bucks bet on my next shot. He was a hoot to hang out with as he was a gregarious guy with lots of personality, like yourself.
Jim Bob, that was awfully nice of you to compare me to my cousin. My grandpa was a business man and politician. My dad was a teacher and a politician; he knew of a lot of our Alabama kin. I'm just an aspiring teacher. Thanks, Barry
@@BarryVann Not the Mayor of Birmingham, his brother who was a railroad guy.
My grandpa was a politician in St Clair County and he had a large grocery store after running a rolling store.
@@scootertrash911 It looks like business and politics runs together. I give lots of money to candidates who care about our way of life.
Bunch is one of my family surnames.
Did you see Episode 31? That's where Bunch is covered. Barry
My great grandfather was melungeon, probably from Scott County Virginia, family name Williams. His daughter, my grandmother, was darker in complexion. In his adult life he lived in Russell County, adjacent to Scott County.
I'd to know more about this. I've never heard about this.
I'm related to Bunch
Did you see Episode 31? That's where Bunch is covered. Barry
My mama was born so dark like an native Indian baby with silky black hair and ever so slightly wavy. Back then schools schools were segregated and when my grandma went to register her to start school they asked if she would be going to the school for black people. My grandma's mother was said to be full Indian. I have a picture of her and her husband who I believe was English, a Lee. I found it hard to trace her family though but I believe I connected her maiden name of Turner to also some Jones. We live in NC on generational family land and 1 county over from Robeson County where the Lumbee Tribe is located. Anyway I will hush because that rabbit hole is a deep one. ❤
I would suggest doing a DNA test. DNA doesn't lie.
Interesting. I've heard of melungeons for maybe 15 years or so, since reading about it on the internet. The story of the melungeons debunks the current narrative that different 'races' were always at each others' throats. Thus, we don't hear much of them or the 'tri-racial isolate' populations that were common in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Today, there are only 267 mixed race people in Hancock County.
Very similar to the "issues" of Bear Mountain and eastern sections of the Blue Ridge of Amherst County
Yes, indeed! How are you Tom? Barry
My Irish grandmother had almost black eyes and hair, and pale, but olive toned skin. Born and raised in Galway. I always suspected that there was a Spanish second-story man somewhere in the family background.
Probably not from recent times. The original Irish (thousands of years ago) came up from the Mediterranean.
I am Scottish and I have always been mistaken for Italian, Greek or Spanish. My mum had ginger hair, pale skin and freckles. My dad was dark, like me.
This was unusual when I was growing up.
@@BarryVann You might be meaning Neolithic Farmers but Ireland was repopulated in the Bronze Age so no Mediterranean link with Irish now other than the farmer component that came in with Bell Beakers approx 4,000 years ago. All European populations have a spectrum of people from blond to dark haired and if people have long term ancestry in a country they will all come from the same ancestry whether they are blond, redhaired or brunets. Irish cluster with English, Scots, Welsh and they all cluster with other Northwestern Europeans such as Dutch and Scandinavians. All European populations have some Farmer dna so thousands of years ago they would all have that link. It isn't something that is unique to Irish in particular.
I’m Irish/English 95.5% and oddly 4% sub Saharan African. My ancestors settled in the Midwest and haven’t been here very long. 1800s and early 1900s
Thanks for sharing, Rita! Barry
Thanks ! Very informative
You're welcome!
Thank you. So very very interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I wa just reading up on the definition of melungeon and they mentioned a bump on the back of the head. Is that the same as an Occipital Bun (or "genius bump" as it's called in my family)?
It's my understanding that all modern humans inherited it from Neanderthals.
I like you...this is a very interesting topic, I love this sort of stuff, but I have adhd and lot's of words without visual stimuli can actually become painful for my brain, but not here. Because you seem to be a really good person. Thank you from Tasmania Australia 😃👍🦘🇦🇺🐨🕊.
Megs, thanks for watching and for writing. I hope to make it down your way some day. Kind regards, Barry
I have Collins, Evans & Sexton ancestors. 1 of my cousins had DNA profiles worked & we have an ancestor from Peru! (Western Africa) My Mom's sisters had this gorgeous dark curly hair & tanned INCREDIBLY well. My Mom's people are Irish/Welsh Native American on 1 side & Welsh & Native Ameticam on the other side. I inherited the fair Irish complexion, blue eyes & blonde hair. My Dad was of the Daniel's/Castle & the Thomas/Griffith families. They're Irish, Scottish & Native American. I can't wait to get my own workup.
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Ginger, I highly recommend Ancestry DNA or Family Tree DNA. I have known a lot of people who were surprised by what their test results revealed about their ancestry; some thought that they were only of European or African descent but found that they had DNA from other populations. I have also seen a good many people who thought that they were part Native American but weren't. Regardless, no one else can be you! That's a celebration in and of itself.
Peru is in South América not in África...
I did the 23andme DNA test. The most interesting part was the list of relatives. I examined all 1500 profiles of my relatives and accourding to their y chromosomes and x chromosomes, they were a mix of European, Afican, Native America and Middle Eastern. Most of my relatives come from NC and VA some from GA.
But let me tell you that in many cases, the dna profiles said they were 100 percent European, but their Y or X chromosomes showed African or Native American. And none of them knew anything about their ancestry. When I told my cousins that they have native ancesty, they didn't believe me.
Very interesting. Thank you.
Thanks, Sharon.
Interesting channel, I would like to learn more.
Thanks for visiting! Barry
Do you know if Melungeons have any known history of Thalasemia (an inherited anemia known for its mediteranean roots). My fair skin and Scotch/Irish/Welsh ancestry perplexed the doctors who diagnosed me with Thalasemia. We do have some geographical connections with lower Appalchians. Thanks.
Lee, I am not familiar with that illness, so I'm not much help. I can tell you that they are not Mediterranean. Sub-Saharan Africa is where their non-European ancestry originated. That's where we find Niger, Mali, and the Ivory Coast. Their European genes are basically English, Scottish, and Irish.
Eye opening!
Thanks, Traci! Barry
Very interesting
My family traces back to Sir John Wallace in Scotland 1700’s. My Maiden name is Wallace. I have very dark hair and gray eyes. My son black hair with hazel eyes. My father and several uncle and aunts had very dark hair, eyes ranging from blue, gray and brown. Some fair skin some quite dark. It is amazing how genetics work.
J.C., thanks for watching and for writing. About 86% of Scots have blue eyes. Scotland is among the most blue eyed countries on the planet. Keep in mind that less than 10% of the world's population have blue or gray eyes.
@@BarryVann thank you for the information! I have Scotland on my bucket list. It would be an awesome thing to see where my people came from.
I enjoyed your video. If you haven't already done so I was wondering if you can do a video of what it means to be black Irish or black Dutch.
Wendell, that sounds like a great idea. I do get comments about those classifications. Barry
I always thought it was somewhat amusing that people like the Melungeons twisted themselves into knots to explain their pigment without considering what was obvious- they had sub Saharan ancestry.
Me too! Still, some folks can't let go of their mythical origins.
Well Done ! Subscribed. And yes, I, too, am a "user and abuser" of DND testing, Family Tree and Ancestry. Be Well, Sir !
Thanks, and welcome to the Vanntage Point. Kind regards! Barry Vann
Great video. Who is the family in the video image saver? I didn't see it in the actual video or note it being referenced.
I don't know their names, but they are purported to be Melungeon folk from Hancock County, Tennessee.
@@BarryVann Thanks for getting back to me. I didn't know if this image actually related to the video or was some ad-type glitch on my end, hence my question. It is actually a picture of my 2nd great grandmother and grandfather and their children. (Her name Mary Shoun, His Milliard Crosswhite). They were from Mountain City, TN / Johnson County area and photo was around 1904. I will do more research on their possible Melungeon heritage
Thank you very much! ❤️
You're welcome 😊Barry
Very interesting thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wonderful information. My mother's family comes from western Kenturcky and were very dark complected. There is no sub saharan African or native American DNA...but a great deal of western European. Makes better sense now. Thank you
Hi Scarlett, thank you for the positive feedback. By the way, I earned my masters in geosciences at Western Kentucky University. Kind regards! Barry
Subscribing - reminds me of stories from my youth.
Mother has medium color skin that darkens in the sun. She with thick dark hair and blue light eyes with the old family name of Skittlethorpe from the Sounds of North/Central coastal NC. She was born in the 1920s on a tobacco farm. I believe Powhatans' tribes loosely stretched from the York River in Va. down through that part of eastern NC and out a bit to the west straddling the state lines.
I have fine light brown hair with bright green eyes and light skin that can get kinda dark and takes the sun very well.
Never read up on this subject.
Which DNA company or test would you suggest?
Now subscribed.
I have several other DNA videos. You actually have some features that places you among only about 5 percent of the world's population. I recommend Ancestry DNA and Family Tree DNA. For finding family members, you can't beat Ancestry.
Fascinating!
I'm glad you found it interesting. Barry
Many stories ❤
My relatives got together and had a family reunion not long back…Crime in the surrounding area went down to 7 percent…but incest at the reunion went up 93 percent!..
Lost you for awhile and you asked me what surname I was waiting for and that was really a thinker. I'm greedy but maybe very interesting would be Edmondson of Roanoke Rapids NC and the Lumbe Indians. Tks
Hi Villie, it's about 75 surnames away from being presented. I appreciate your patience. Barry
@@BarryVann How exciting! I have subscribed this time So you will not be lost again. Hope Gatewood & Eanes on on your list also. So interesting. Tks
@@villiehaizlip7626 They are on the list to cover, but there are over a hundred in front of them. Barry
My father was from hancok county. Tall, large ears, skin was slightly olive. How do I start surch? Every has died from his family. Thanks
The simplest way to get started and to find out if you have the requisite Sub-Saharan genes is to do an Ancestry.com DNA test. The company routinely offers it from as low as $59 to $99. Put together a family tree of the parents, grandparents, and as many great grandparents that you can put in it. Before long, you will find new ancestors in an Ancestry.com service that comes at no extra charge. It's called Thru Lines.
Very interesting 😊
Glad you think so!
My great-uncle's were all from a man named Cummins they were almost 7ft tall from Tennessee and my great grandmother spoke kindly of the melungeon people she knew from that region. I suspect that her husband mr. Cummins was of this group
Folks in that community are part of the larger regional culture and genetic pool. They have many kin folk who are not Melungeon per say. There are also many people who have Cherokee relatives, but they are not part of the tribe. Few people are 100 percent this or that.
My great grandmother was called "Black Irish." Coal Black hair, dark complexion and bright blue eyes. Her daughter was a blue-eyed blonde. Her grandaughter, got the black hair, blue eyes and dark skin.
Have you done a DNA test?
@ann yes, why? My mother was mostly Irish.
Some of the traits you mentioned ("dark complexion and bright blue eyes") were common among some of the earliest inhabitants of Great Britain and Ireland. Most people in Southern Appalachia think that dark skin and hair has to be from an Indian or Black ancestor, but they are mostly likely wrong. Only a DNA test can help decide where those traits originated. Dark hair and eyes along with brown-black skin is by far the most common phenotype in the world. If you have time and are interested, check out this talk that I gave on Southern Appalachian phenotypes.@@greendeane1
We transferred from Tazwell, VA to Pike County, Kentucky.
I was in Knoxville an read n article about them between there and Rogersville. Crazy interesting. If I remember this correctly
That's pretty close to Hancock County. I think it is just to the east.
Thank you for an interesting history. All my ancestors are white,Irish and English. However my maternal grandfather whose ancestors came from Ireland had olive skin dark eyes ,black hair. My mother had the same coloring but the rest of her siblings had fair skin,black hair and blue eyes. We always thought they had some rogue Spanish or Portuguese dna
Spanish and Portuguese, in their natural forms, are a lot like other Atlantic coastal people. There are even red haired people in Spain!
I have read that MANY moons ago the Spanish Armada invaded Ireland,& that's why so many Irish have black hair,& some with olive skin,but also lots with pasty white Celtic skin,& jet black hair with it! The same reason many Spanish & Portuguese people have fair skin,blue or green eyes & light or even red hair....
I have a friend from eastern Tennessee that is a melungeon.
My mother was black hair and white skin she asked her grandma why was she was so dark and was told she was black Dutch
Interesting, thank you.
You're welcome! Barry
I am Melungeon. My DNA contains Scottish, German, Irish, and African. Didn’t the Carmel Indians live in Highland County, Ohio? In the town of Carmel. (Pronounced Carmuhl.) They had Kentucky descendants, IIRC, but lived in Ohio. Many with the surname Gibson, for example. I had a grandmother who might refer to someone as “dark Irish,” so I’m glad you pointed that out. Most of my red headed relatives were of German descent, not Irish.
You are on the right track, Riverbilly.