Runners for Ryobi/Craftsman Tabbed Miter Slots
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2024
- Learn how to make table saw sled runners for saws with tabbed miter slots, like you might find on some Ryobi and Craftsman models. It's not as hard as you might think, and after watching this video, you'll be able to do it in no time! Well, OK, maybe not quite that quickly, but you know what I mean...
Other videos in this series:
Make Runners for Table Saw Sleds: • Easy! Make Runners for...
Make Cross Cut Sled Fences out of 2x4s: • 2x4 Cross Cut Sled Fences
Make Cross Cut Sled Fences out of Plywood: • Making Cross Cut Sled ...
Assembling a Cross Cut Sled, for Newbies!: • Assembling a Cross Cut...
Other relevant videos:
Newbie Tool Tip: Calipers - Digital and Analog: • Newbie Tool Tip: Calip...
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All Products featured in my videos: www.amazon.com...
Products featured in this video:
Tap & Drill Bit Set - 1/4” x 20: amzn.to/2JhFd6i
Caliper (Digital): amzn.to/2CasjDX
Cordless Drill - Makita Hammer Driver-Drill Kit: amzn.to/2uobfrU
Forstner Bits - 7-Piece - Rockler: bit.ly/2CYDowh
Forstner Bits - 14 Piece - Porter-Cable: amzn.to/2FnSpFr
Micro Jig Grr-Ripper: amzn.to/2CELfvw
Micro Jig Grr-Ripper 1/8" Leg: amzn.to/2HzhwXj
Incra 6-Inch Precision Marking T-Rule: amzn.to/2HQHdCT
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Remote Control Outlet Switch (Westek): thd.co/2DatBOL
SawStop JobSite Table Saw - Amazon: amzn.to/2HkawNh
SawStop JobSite Table Saw - Rockler: bit.ly/2A2Wz3o
I have the same Ryobi table saw. I got so tired of struggling to get the miter runners correct, that I just gave up and ground the tabs down flat with an angle grinder. Now I can make sleds with normal runners.
Yeah, if I had this saw permanently, I would certainly do the same. Thanks!
Exactly what I would do.
I foolishly purchased the older version with full tabs that ran the length of the table. Angle grinder took a bit longer, but yeah... Seems the second smartest way to handle it.
The smartest way is of course to buy a different saw.
LOL. Probably true. But it's how we learn, right? :)
I had tabbed slots on my bandsaw, and did the same thing. Just filed them off and made normal runners.
I don't know what your background is but you are a great teacher.
Thanks! My profession is software engineer, and I was always the one who explained to other engineers how to accomplish things. So I've written a lot of technical "how-to" documents for other developers. Now I'm trying to do basically the same thing for woodworkers, except with videos. The process is very similar, except that I have to reshoot a lot of video to get it "just right". :) So the fact you appreciate it and took the time to comment really means a lot to me. Thanks!
This is exactly what I was looking for for my Ryobi RTS12 I just purchased. I wasn't sure how to make the runner for the different miter slot. Thank you for explaining this so well!! Great job!!!
Thanks, and you're welcome. By the way, other people have said they cut off the tabs using an angle grinder. Obviously this would void your warranty. 😄
You do a great job of narrating and helping us solve problems. Subscribed!
Thanks, and welcome aboard! 👍
Dan, thanks for the video I have the same saw. I probably will just grind off the tab. But a trick I learned when I built RC planes is after you tap the hole put a little thin CA glue onto the threads. Let it cure, then retap the hole. The threads will be much stronger. Again thanks for another great video.
Thanks for the comment, and that's a great tip! I've mostly been using plywood runners up to this point, and for them, I don't even bother tapping them. I just screw the screw into the slightly-undersized hole, and it works great. Very tight fit - just right.
But hardwood's too hard to just screw the screw in. I knew there had to be a good way of dealing with this, and your's sounds like an excellent idea. I was also wondering if something like LockTite might work also?
Thanks again!
Brilliant! I’m a UK Newbie with a Titan table saw. It has these mitre slots and I haven’t seen anyone else show how to solve this problem, thank you! Love your channel and you’re teaching me so much.
Awesome! And just so you know, lots of people have commented that they just cut the tabs off with something like a grinding wheel. Not that I'm recommending it, but I can see their point.
This video turned out to be a million dollar video for me. Thank you because I needed this info
Awesome! Glad I could help. 😄
Thank you for making this video, I just started woodworking and didn't realize when I bought my table saw the miter slot had those tabs. Thankfully mine run the entire length of the miter slot. I really appreciate learning about woodworking as I go along and your videos help me out alot. Please keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing more content.
Awesome! Glad I could help. 🙂
great video for people struggling with these types of slots. I gave up with my old one a way back and used a router to cut them out to normal size. HSS router bits have no trouble with aluminium tops.
Thanks, and I would never have thought to use a router. Interesting idea.
Im really not great at cutting anything freehand so the router was the best thing I could come up with to control depth and give neat parallel cuts with an edge guide.
That makes sense. Very creative!
This is a great idea. I recently bought an older cast iron Craftsman to replace my newer one that has a tabbed aluminum top so I understand the issue. Here's a thought from a long time RC airplane builder: Rather than cut rabbets another option might be to cut the hardwood to fit between the tabs and to cut 3/32" or 1/8" (2.5-3mm) aircraft ply to fit the full width of the slots and then glue the ply to the runners with 15 minute or slower epoxy. (This isn't a good place for 5 minute epoxy.) That would make for much less fragile inverted Tee runners. The aircraft ply is 100% birch plies and th3 1/8" variety will have 5 layers. It's available at hobby shops that cater to radio controlled airplane and boat builders and at craft stores like Hobby Lobby and Michael's. The 3 ply poplar "lite ply" would not be a good choice for this application.
Good idea - thanks! 😄
How about attaching a long piece of aluminum (the width of the space between the tabs) on top of the wood runner underneath?? Maybe that would help inhibit any changes to the wood, especially during winter and summer? I have a Craftsman btw, and it's a pain to watch videos of great sleds my tablesaw can't handle.
Or you could make it so the runners are flush against the ends on the outside. Much easier.
Saw the previous video, and was on my way out to the garage to grind those tabs off... glad you beat me to a solution...
Lots of people grind the tabs off, so that's certainly an option, if you don't mind voiding the warranty.
Your method for runners allows adjustments to make them fit perfectly and they are replaceable. Great technique.
Thanks! Glad I could help! 😄
I'm fortunate enough to have access to a 3d printer and am currently attempting to print this instead of cutting out of wood. Thanks for planting the idea into my head. You do really good work.
Thanks! If you get something that works, I'll bet others would want to buy it.
Hi Mark I am hoping you had success printing these runners and might be willing to print a few more at a fee?
Mark Nastold let us know if you’d be willing to sell a copy of your finished piece!
did u ever make those runners ? let us know how u got on
Thank you for the great information. I always heard that you had to grind off the tabs, but I think this is so much better than grinding off the tabs!
You're welcome! 😄
This is the video I've been looking for! Thanks!
Thanks! Glad I could help! 😄
PERFECT! I have a Craftsman 10” Table Saw and have really had a hard time making mine., now, off to buy some Maple Strips…
Good luck!
New sub here. I thought I was SOL on making sleds for the old Craftsman someone gave me. I don't have the tools to grind down the slots. I'm so glad I stumbled on your videos. I plan on making your sled that can be used with a blade guard, as thats the only safety device my saw has, no riving knife.
Welcome aboard, Joe! Sounds good. If you ever have to remove the blade guard, I hope you can keep the metal
"splitter" part installed, because either that or a riving knife is one of the most important pieces of safety equipment on a table saw.
Hi I just cut the hardwood to fit runner slot turn the hardwood on its side & use the thickness of the saw blade to cut a groove both sides of slider to required depth so tabs fit comfortably in the groove & run smoothly back & forth I didn't actually have this in mind to do but it just made sense as I progressed with the slider Works well
Whatever works, works!
Thanks for the video. I just made some for my Ryobi table saw. I made them too thin and put washers on top of the runners to make it work. The next set will be taller.
Awesome - glad I could help! And don't be afraid to keep making them until you get it right. The more you make, the easier it gets, and then you'll find all sorts of uses for runners. 😄
Thank you Dan. Your videos are quite clear and informative. As a real newbie in woodworking, a few years ago, I have acquired a low-cost table saw Rioby similar to the one shown in your video to renovate our house floors. Lately, while being grounded by all the health measures against the COVID19, I am thinking to venture myself into more ''advanced'' stuff such as building cabinets, and shelves (please don't laugh!) as a pass time. The crosscut sled seems to be ''the'' most recommended by mentors to us newbies. However, the task is being complicated by the design of the Rioby table with miter slot tabs. While considering using your method to deal with the situation, I remember having come across a slim-line drawer slides with ball bearing tracks. They have a cross section of 5/8'' (W) x 3/8'' (H) which seems to suit the miter slots (without tabs) in hand. This requires a removal of the troublesome tabs which, to me, have a secondary function in keeping the miter gauge rod stable during cross cuts. At best, these tabs are ''nice-to-have'' design feature.
The following link provides more information about these slides:
www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/hardware/slides/side-mount/40591-slim-line-drawer-slides
I have tried to mount these slides on a scrap board, and they fit quite well in the slots, but protruding slightly above the table surface by approximately 1/8''. The board is sliding very smoothly on the slide tops without touching the saw table (bad thing?)
My concerns are as follows:
- The stability of the board in side-to-side movements because of the slacks in the slides (ball bearing, clearances, etc.), even though the front-to-back movement is super smooth.
- The alignment and squareness of the fence to the kerf might be affected by the movement of the slides even though I can fasten them down to the slots using screws at each end of the slides.
Before getting into more serious steps in making the sled, I would like to have your expert opinion on this application. Any improvements or precautions to make to the procedure?
Your help is most appreciated.
Thanks for the nice words. And I would never laugh at the idea of you trying to make anything. In my experience, the only thing holding back most people (myself included) is thinking we're not capable of doing something. But the truth is, if we try and fail, we'll learn way more than if we don't try at all. And when we succeed, well... yay! So go for it!
As for the tabbed slots, if it were me, I'd cut the tabs off as a lot of people have mentioned in the comments (assuming your tabs are like the the people's). I'd use an angle grinder and just get rid of them. I wouldn't recommend using those slides - you don't want side-to-side movement at all. And you don't want them to lift the sled off the surface of the table - that's not a good idea at all.
Thank you Dan. Your comments are most appreciated. I will take it from here and try to finalise my sled shortly.
I have learned a lot from this exercise.
@@TrongNguyen-er4tp Glad to help any way I can. And learning is the best thing!
thank you very much. I am just a project dad so I have no need to buy a fancier saw. Btw thanks for demoing with just one rail. The 2 new 10 inch Ryobi tables only come woth only 1 miter slot..
You're welcome, and I'm glad I could help! 😄
NEW SUB!!!! wow I was gonna give up on my ryobi... I was so sad because of the runners and every video I saw about making a sled had "real" runners lol. This will be a weekend project for me! THANKS !
Thanks, and welcome aboard! 😄
I wish I had the foresight to buy a table saw without the tabs as my new Craftsmans has them. I have been working on the same project but your rabbit technique to trim the runners is what I was missing. About to give it a go. Thanks for posting. Perfect video for my problem.
Awesome! Glad I could help. 😄
I have the craftsman table saw and did the same thing a year or two ago. Wish I had seen your videos before that ordeal. When I got the size right I cut some extra runners that are spares or can be used on other jigs. The wax is a good tip.
Thanks. Yes, it's always a good idea to cut extra runners. I forgot to mention that, so I'm glad you did. Thanks!
Good video! I am with some of the others in though, going to grind the tabs off.
Thanks, and I don't blame you one bit. That's what I would probably do. 😄
I like the idea of a sled that won't wobble or pop out.
@@joeywatch1145 FYI, for tables with "normal" miter slots, if the runner fits right, the sled won't wobble, and they never "pop out".
Yes, I was aware of the inevitable reply, but there are plenty of situations where it can be handy to have a captured sled, most of which are during setup when you might want to draw it back past its balance point. I suppose it's a matter of what you find convenient.
@@joeywatch1145 That makes sense - thanks for the explanation! 😄
Thank you so much! Ryobi is just a little different than most, but I love my Ryobi table saws. The newest one (cordless), I will be able to use this tutorial with. My older one (15Amp) does not have any miter slots. If you have any suggestions for that one, I would be forever grateful!
Glad I could help. There isn't anything you can do about not having a miter slot.
Thanks Dan. This was a great video. I have a Skil table saw and it works surprisingly well for being so cheap but have those dang tabs. Too much work to make inverted T runners. Just going to file them off. 😕
Makes sense to me - that's what I'd do too. 😄
i literally just did that today on my Skilsaw 3310 i bought during COVID, yay
@@JustinRiley1987 👍
This is exactly what I needed thank you
Awesome! Glad I could help. 🙂
A great video for Ryobi table saw runners. The runner that comes with the mitre fence has way too much play, I think I will make new ones like yours. If you could figure out how to fix the cross cut fence so that both ends move together, that would be fantastic Ryobi could use a little help in that department? The Ryobi is a good saw for the price, but I would like to be able to make some square cuts without all the hassle.
Thanks again Dan! Keep up the good work!
Thanks, and you’re welcome. I can’t help with the fence, sorry. 🙂
(Follow-on comment) I just got my Ryobi RTS08 (local guy used it once and let it go on NextDoor for $80 so I couldn't say no). After some research, I'm looking to just angle-grind the tabs out and make good-ol' regular runners. Apparently the slots are 5/8" wide at the top between the tabs and 13/16" at the bottom. I'll also put in grooves with countersunk screw holes for expansion slots to fine-tune out any play for a just-right fit. And, as mentioned in my previous comment, I'll use an HDPE cutting board (or hope to find a reasonably affordable UHMW bar).
Sounds reasonable to me. I can't tell you to do something like that, but I can certainly agree with you!
Thank you so much for this video! I got this table saw a couple of years ago and at the time looked for a video that would help build a sled for these slots. Finally I found it! You just got a new sub. Awesome work!!!
Thanks for letting me know! Sometimes you just never know if a video really helps anyone, so it's great to hear that it helped you. Feel free to ask questions if you need to. 😄
Same here. I made an insert before out of ply and it eventually broke and was never 100% correct.
@@ambientwater Yeah, I wouldn't think plywood would work well for this kind of insert. I hope I didn't recommend plywood in this video. 😳
No you actually suggested to only use hardwood. I have yet to even ever touch hardwood. Now I will.
@@ambientwater LOL, I totally get that. I much prefer plywood - it's just so familiar and comfortable. I don't have to worry about seasonal changes, or planing or jointing or whatever. But, at least at my local Home Depot, I can find pieces of hardwood that are straight enough and completely milled so I don't need a planer or jointer. And once I started using wood like maple, I saw some of the advantages. I'll be building an ottoman/coffee table using it soon.
You are the man was looking for this video
Awesome! Glad I could help. 😄
Congrats on 10k subs!! That was quick and well deserved!
Thanks! It just kind of snuck up on me. :)
As many times as I've seen people cut ⅛"-¼" rabbets on a table saw, I never would have thought to do it for t-bars. 👍🏽
Thanks. It seemed like the only solution, really. But I get it - sometimes the "obvious" is the hardest thing to see. :)
9:05 how did you find a Ryobi TS that has 2 miter slots? Is there any way you remember what that model was? That wasn’t the battery powered, was it?
I have the RTS23. It’s downside is 1 miter slot for a bunch of reasons.
I really like your use of the dial indicator set up on the fence. I definitely made more of that. Thanks.
At Home Depot. I don't remember the model. And thanks!
Good tips, nice vid! Yea, I've got a Ryobi too; definitely not a precision tool. I ground the tabs too, the blade jumps when turned on; exciting, you just deal with it. Again, good stuff...Thanks
Thanks, and LOL. I'm not sure a table saw should be "exciting". :)
Dan: I just found this video and would like to thank you for making and posting it. Recently, I picked up a gently used Ryobi jobsite saw for free on Craigslist, and quickly discovered that the miter slots, while they do not have the tabs you show, do have an inverted 'T' shape which is too narrow at the top to accept the runner on my Incra I-Box (or any other Incra product). Turns out that "real" table saws have 3/4" slots.... Maybe that's why the Ryobi was being given away! Anyway, since I lack confidence in my ability to sneak up on a cut in order to follow the procedure you have so gracefully outlined, I have come up with a potential work-around for lazy people like me.
The standard-issue miter gauge for a Ryobi, Craftsman, Jet or other jobsite saw is basically a stamped metal bar with some plastic screwed on. They vary in width but are more or less uniform in thickness of material. So, assuming that the miter slots on my Ryobi are BOTH parallel AND of uniform width, all I really need are a sufficient quantity of the metal bars found on crappy miter gauges. If I attach a pair of them to the bottom of a crosscut sled or other jig in such a way that they hug the outside edges of the two miter slots, the inside edges can be ignored, since the runners will slide smoothly just against the outside edges, if that makes any sense....
Going a little further with that thought, why rely on finding a bunch of discarded miter gauges, since all I really need are some thin metal bars with shoulders of the proper height stamped in them? Looks like it's time to go Dumpster-diving with a mission in mind! If I can get this hack to work I'll post back with my results.
Thanks for the reply, Carl! You said "since I lack confidence in my ability to sneak up on a cut". All you need is practice and some scrap wood. Honest! You can do it! There's nobody around to ridicule you while you try, and I'll bet you get pretty good at it within less than an hour. Try it! 😄Just don't use soft wood like pine, because it doesn't cut as accurately. Use some halfway decent plywood, or hardwood like maple or birch or oak or whatever. I'm expecting to hear back from you that you tried it, and I was right. 😛
@@Airwrecka1980 I don't know what you mean.
@@Airwrecka1980 LOL - I've done that before (replying to the wrong video). I've even replied using the wrong account, which can add to the confusion. Glad to hear that grinding off the tabs worked. 😄
Great video! I got my first table saw about a month and a half ago, so I'm really new to all this, but I was able to use this video to make my runners last night. I just got done waxing the bottom of the sled, and the whole thing slides perfectly. Thanks for this, will definitely recommend it to anybody else who has to deal with those damned tabs!
That's awesome to hear! Thanks for letting me know. 👍
I found myself watching a video that has no value to me as fa r as this type of miter slot and yet I watched it beginning to end without realizing the video was more or less useless to me. That is my long winded way of trying to compliment you on another good video, I much enjoy your content, keep it up :) I never even realized this was a problem people faced and it made me wonder why these companies design them this way, do you think its there way of trying to tell us not to use such jigs on that saw?
Thanks, and LOL, that's a great compliment! I totally get it. I've done the same thing with other videos, so I know what you mean, and as I said, that's a real compliment!
I suspect they made them this way for safety - a t-slot runner can't accidentally lift out in case your part lifts up on the blade. That being said, I'm not a fan of mine (Craftsman) and will take another look at either grinding the tabs off mine or making some better runners than I've made in the past.
Thank you Dan!! New life for my Skil X-Shop saw table (yes, there are still at least a few out there) without fashioning a table topper and killing the cut height
Awesome! Thanks for letting me know! 😄
I have the cheap 71/4 “ blade Ryobi saw, it only has one runner slot. Is it possible to build a sled for it with two runner slots and use the sled as the table? I thought I might try that idea, but if you or someone else has done it I would like your opinion.
Thank you for your great videos!
You could, but you don't need to. I usually use only one runner (except for my "revolutionary" sled). Here's some videos:
th-cam.com/video/b-65Bs5Yi0w/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/AlUCDzM3gzY/w-d-xo.html
And here's an article on why I usually only use one runner: thenewbiewoodworker.com/2018/05/07/cross-cut-sleds-why-i-only-use-one-runner.html
Very good video Dan, but I'm going to cut off the tabs with my angle grinder and make conventional runners. I really like your video tips.
Thanks, Jerry. That's what I would do. 😄
I really wish I would have noticed these crazy tabs when I bought the saw. It's enough to drive me nuts! Definitely going to give this a try though. I looked at microjigs zeroplay guide, but those don't work on here either.
According to the comments I've received, lots of people use an angle grinder and cut them off. Of course, it voids your warranty, etc., but it's something else to consider.
Wow, Dan thank you so very much for making this video. Although I’m not looking forward to making another sled I can always use a bigger or smaller one. I’ll give it a try but not sure how soon. These slow comments on not wanting to make another sled can tell you how much he** I went through making my first one. It’s not perfect by any means but it’s “close” as they say. Another thing that happened to me once I got the runners on I put the back part of the sled on and for some reason I guess it “pinched” together a little and my cut that comes out the back (part closest to body) didn’t cut straight bc it pinched the Saw. How that happened who knows!! It’s like Murphy’s Law with me on making that sled. I understand everything you described and I’m much more familiar with using the Saw now that I feel more confident that I can do it. The Saw you used is the one I have. Thanks again Dan it’s pretty special you taking time to make another video for those of us who have the saws from HE**! LOL
Thanks, Becky! You're one of the people I was thinking about when I made it this video. Regarding your current sled, everything is a learning experience. In fact, if you get something right the first time, you miss out on learning something valuable. The thing that doing these videos has taught me is that this isn't voodoo - if something doesn't work right, there's a reason somewhere, if we look hard enough. Well, most of the time, anyway. :)
Question. Why dont you put runners for both slots instead of just one? Ive seen this done both ways? Is there a reason why? Great video. I have a Skilsaw 3410 with these kind of slots. Ive been itching to make my first sled. Was contemplating sawing off the tabs.
Thanks. Apparently a lot of people use angle grinders to cut off the tabs. Personally, that sounds like a good idea, but I'm not giving you advice to mangle your table saw - you have to make that decision on your own. 😉I wrote a blog article on the subject of one runner vs two: thenewbiewoodworker.com/2018/05/07/cross-cut-sleds-why-i-only-use-one-runner.html
You mentioned (2:00) that it'd be better to have the grain running vertically, but that'd give you a clean break line where the side "tabs" of the T are, so any upward force/stress would start to peel them right off. If the grain's horizontal, your break line would be the whole bottom layer - the "crossbar" of the T, which is a lot more 'surface' area. (Think of each as if they were glue surface areas that you attached onto an initial rectangular bar: either gluing on just little square strips into the side recesses, or gluing on a wide flat strip all the way across.) I'm brainstorming that if this is actually an issue to be solved, it'd be best to pick wood with diagonal grain! (Or just use UHMW -- or even chop up a cheap cutting board from Marshall's/Home Goods/Target/Walmart... 🙂)
You make excellent points.
Thanks for this video!!
My Craftsman table saw has those stupid tabs. I was tempted to grind them off but resisted.
I like your method and will try to do it that way. Like some other posters I think I will make some extra runners in case I need a spare or want to make other sleds now!
Thanks, and you're welcome. Absolutely make multiple at one time. See my other video th-cam.com/video/0gvx-_YipOs/w-d-xo.html for how to make "blanks". When you get the width correct, trim all of them. Then when you get the rabbets correct, finish the rest. Good luck - let me know how it goes!
It's also a good idea to use both slots when making a sled not just 1
Depends on the size of the sled, and how tightly your runner fits in the slot.
Finally someone with the exact ryobi (pain in my butt) table saw lol! I have zero prior experience with the versatile yet dangerous mechanical tool, so I have no way of comparing to other brands and price points, however, with that said I don’t want to quit on mine until I have a good excuse and time spent understanding of how to use it. I’ve used it for ripping 45 deg French cleats and other basics but I tend to make excuses to use anything other than it and partly it’s due to fear (I don’t feel as in control of it as I should) and I’m perplexed how to build a table saw table to slide it into for safer use, extended space of larger pieces, table saw additions and jigs, etc. Is there anyway you’d be apt to take on the project of building a suitable (well fitted top) that not only extends but is made to be as functional as other ts tables are made to be? Partly my concern is there’s not much space for trimming and ripping, and as short as I am (5’1”) I feel like the mobile base is just too high for my comfort level. This is especially true when ripping long boards as my elbows do barely extend over the top but I feel myself fearing the wood is face level to me. Lol silly but I’m so curious about what I can do to make this table saw safer, more reliable as far as having the height just right and room on either side and in front for larger pieces to safely cut. I’ll never be able to cut down a full piece of plywood, that’s understood! Lol but even with precut longer or wider pieces I just don’t have anything to balance the wood. That and my fence is so limited as well. The price of buying low grade I suppose but also I’d rather “earn” my way into higher quality tools after I’ve developed a true understanding and natural sense and feel for the tool. My mitre saw, I’m comfortable with of course. Easy enough but the table saw is so much more powerful and as much research and hours that equal up to several years of observing and taking advice, it’s this tool that I still haven’t conquered. Maybe with a table or preferably a bench would equip me and other ladies and brand new learners to feel more confidence in handling such a necessary tool to woodworking and building
Honestly, if I had a tool I didn't feel safe(ish) with, I wouldn't use it. At least not until I learned how to feel more comfortable around it, and the key to that is knowledge and experience. So if you haven't had experience using table saws, I highly recommend looking around your area and see if anyone offers introductory courses on using table saws. Maybe a local college, or even a store like Rockler or Woodcraft. I remember seeing some newspaper-like thing at Rockler that advertised lots of different courses. Or look online.
Once you gain experience, then you can decide if you want to replace the saw, or give it a whirl (pun intended). And if you think you don't want to spend money on a course, consider the cost, in both pain and money, of an injury and hospital trip. And of course you can't guarantee being safe all the time, but trust me, learning how to use a table saw *SAFELY* is the best money you'll ever spend. I did so many stupid things when I started using my table saw, I'm extremely fortunate I've still got all my fingers.. Good luck!
Don't mean to necro this comment, but I'm sort of in the same boat. I'm not fearful of the tool but I definitely respect it. I work in the oilfield and just bought a craftsman portable table saw. Been learning more every day from it but a good table would be nice to extend it for more of a base I guess.
@@two2theface408 Makes sense to me! 😄
I have a newly purchased Ryobi table saw that only has one runner track. Would I still be able to build and use a crosscut sled on that.? Or can you only use with two runner tracks.? It came with miter gauge, but wanted to build something better.
You can definitely make crosscut sleds with only one miter track. Check out this video: th-cam.com/video/b-65Bs5Yi0w/w-d-xo.html.
Thanks I got a Ridged table saw getting ready to make those runners. Ill let you know how they came out. I was thinking making those rabbits on my router.
Good luck! And a router is probably a good idea, especially if you have a router table. Just be careful! 😄
Great teacher!
Thanks! I appreciate it! 😄
do you think making these same runners out of aluminum would be a viable strategy? may keep them from breaking as easily and could be made with the same methods and tools, as far as i'm aware. great video though! i have that ryobi table saw and i was hoping to find a good method of making runners for it.
Yes, I think it would probably work. I'd try it on wood first, just to get the hang of it before you cut into your aluminum. I have to say, though, that it'll be *really* messy. 😄
Thanks for this. 👍
You're quite welcome! 🙂
Hey from ireland.love your videos
Thanks!
thanks for all your Vids,.....They are geeat. I have just bought a table saw and am having trouble finding instructions on its safe use,....can you help out please?
regards,
Allyn
New Zealand
Start out with this TH-cam video from Steve Ramsey - I'll bet it's just what you're looking for: th-cam.com/video/tKtE0sTFi8g/w-d-xo.html. Then check out Steve's other table saw safety videos by searching for "table saw safety steve ramsey". And don't forget my video on kickback: th-cam.com/video/ZUZ8hRm7a8g/w-d-xo.html. If you have any questions, feel free to leave a comment on any of my videos and I'll see it (unless TH-cam hides it from me, which happens every once in a while). And good on you for wanting to know about safety right at the start. You're already ahead of most people when they start using a table saw, including me! 😄PS: If, after watching the safety videos, you see me do something wrong in my videos, feel free to let me know! I've learned a lot from my viewers. 😄
Parabéns meu amigo ótimo trabalho ficou top está idéia
Obrigado! (via Google Translate)
I tried this, then ended up going to harbor freight and spending $18 on an angle grinder and grinding those M-Fing tabs down. If you're reading this I suggest you do the same. Save yourself so much time and energy.
LOL. I don't blame you one bit. I sure wish I knew why the manufacturers thought the tabs were a good idea.
Very nice tips my good friend good job :)
Thanks!
Dan, being a newbie with tabbed rabbet cuts, did I miss a step? after following your video I realized you didn't show the 2nd horizontal cut, or did I miss something. Thanks.
I'm pretty sure I show cutting one side, then I flip it over and cut the other side.
Appreciate how you worked the problem, it was great to watch. I was kinda wondering, why not demonstrate or use the Ryobi in the vid for all the cutting? It's not like I have a SawStop or a second saw to do this with :-)
Thanks for the comment. Well, to tell the honest truth, I only had the Ryobi to demonstrate the issue. I had to box it up and take it back when I was done, and I didn't think it was fair to have actually used it.
Ah, now I understand. You really went the extra mile for us viewers!
Thanks, I kind of did! :)
I wonder if I could use this for my Bosch router table with the T slot? Need to make a sled to use with my lock miter bit. Seems like this should work.
I hope it works!
Hi Dan, A newbie here. I have to ask what the down side of trimming off the tabs on a Craftsman table saw would be.
Other than voiding your warranty, I don't think there are any downsides. Other people here have done it, and they're happy.
@@TheNewbieWoodworker Thank you, unless it came with a lifetime warranty I’m okay. Lol
@@douglasmurray1829 😄
Those tabbed slots are a PIA. There's so much play even with the factory accessories. I'm thinking of just cutting them out for a custom runner.
Other people have said they cut them off with an angle grinder, and they haven't had any problems. Of course, it voids the warranty...
I made the mistake of purchasing a Ryobi RTS23 table saw. It's not a bad saw if all you plan on doing very basic cross cutting and ripping of lumber using the standard Ryobi fence and miter gauge. Forget attempting a cross cut sled and don't expect to do anything semi-precision with this saw. As you stated, the miter slots are not standard. In their infinite wisdom, Ryobi decided to eliminate the left side miter slot. The RTS23 table now only has one slot and it's on the righthand side of the blade. In addition, the fence is now L-shaped. When installed to the left of the blade, the fence has a 1/4" high face to run your lumber up against. The owner's manual recommends cutting material no greater than 3/4 of an inch in thickness with the fence on the left side of the blade. I don't feel safe cutting any material with a fence that is only 1/4" tall. With the fence on the right, the fence has a full width face. I was hoping to use a precision miter gauge on this saw. Unfortunately, all of the precision miter gauges I have found so far, do not fit into the Ryobi slot. I am all ears if someone has found a precision miter gauge that works with the Ryobi slot.
Ugh. Take it back, if you can. Good luck!
Thanks. I should have researched my ryobi before purchasing but its my first table saw so I wouldn't have known anyway 👍
It's all a learning process. At least now you can say you've learned something. 😄
@@TheNewbieWoodworker next I need to learn what the amount of time I have to return it is 😂😂
@@NewBeginningNewCreation If you bought it from Home Depot, they're pretty lenient. And even if you're outside the return time, it's worth asking them if they'll take it back anyway. Just a thought.
@@TheNewbieWoodworker yeah that's where I got it from. Thanks
I have a Ryobi RTS20 Table Saw, with those darned T-slots. A couple of years ago, I went ahead and made some runners for my first sled, a combination cross-cut/miter design, using one runner and no vertical fence. Around the same time, I had built a router table using an old B&D Workmate for a base, so I cut the rabbets on that.
I was fascinated to watch your excellent video and see how you did it. I think perhaps your method of cutting the rabbets on the saw might be more precise than what I did.
The main problem I have with making these runners is that the slot widths themselves are not consistent, either from slot to slot or along the length of either slot. So I end up having to average the runner width to fit, or sand the edges where they stick, before waxing them. In using the sled I made though, I found I could eyeball the cut well enough to split my pencil line. So, good enough for my needs.
Currently, after five years of use the blade on my Ryobi saw has gone slightly out of alignment. Can you tell me where the heel/parallel adjustments screws are on the RTS20?
The manual says they're just above the height/bevel adjusting wheel on the front face, even shows a picture, but nope. They aren't there. The only other hex screws around the blade are on the top of the riving knife assembly, but there are four of them, two large and two small. Since you owned a Ryobi saw, do you know which screws are the right ones for the heel/parallel adjustment?
I've searched my brains out online, and can't find anything beyond what's in the manual. I'd prefer not to loosen things that don't need loosening, if I don't have to. Thanks.
Wayne - I don't know where they are. But, here's how you find out. Turn the table over (with the blade all the way down of course), and if there's a bottom cover, remove it. I know that turning the table over isn't the simplest task, but trust me, it'll be worth your time. Then take a look at the blade/arbor assembly. Look to see how it's anchored, and imagine how it could move for alignment. I'll bet it won't take you longer than a couple of minutes to figure out where the screws are. If that doesn't work, let me know.
I had an old Ryobi that wasn't the same model as yours. Anyway, I got frustrated with something and finally decided to turn the table over and look at it. I was amazed at how much I learned, just by looking. It took away the "mystery" of how the thing worked.
I forgot to mention that when you turn it over, make sure you put down something to protect the surface of the saw. I used a piece of old carpet. But probably some old towels would be enough.
Turned the saw over, and removed the plastic sawdust collector from beneath the blade. Couldn't see anything that looked like it adjusted the heel angle, so called the Ryobi North American service department.
The tech, nice guy, read me chapter and verse from the manual and couldn't believe it when I told him the adjustment screws weren't on my saw. Sent him pics of where they should be along with the model and serial number off the ID plate, and a shot of how the blade assembly is attached to the table underneath with hex screws (not adjustable).
In trying to get back to the first tech, I spoke with a second tech, also a nice guy, who said he doesn't remember the RTS10 or RTS20 having an adjustable trunnion for the heel angle. As I said in my email back to the first tech, "kinda sucks".
That said, the blade angle seems pretty accurate already. I'm going to go ahead and measure it, and will post back.
Holy cow! That's so strange. When you stump the manufacturer, you've got a real winner!
Many, many years ago, when I first started programming, I used to find bugs in the compiler that nobody had ever seen before. Sounds like you've got the same gift. 😛
Yup, happens to me with some regularity. It's pretty cool though when the manufacturer/developer confirms what I'm telling them and holds up their end until we find a solution.
To continue the saga, I cut eight new runners as best I could, then turned the saw over again to further examine the blade mount. Turns out there are two mounting screws at the back, just under the table edge - so, four blade assembly mounting screws, none of them intended to be adjustable.
I ordered a deflection gauge online, and built the test rig you describe in Blade Alignment - Part 1. I made the short runner as tight as I could get it in the T-slot, so that with a bit of pressure to one side I can get repeatable readings within a thou. Then I measured the blade alignment.
It's out repeatably from 2 to 2.5 thou front to back (using the recommended board, not the blade). I'm considering loosening off the mounting screws under the back edge (the easiest to access) just enough to allow minimal movement, to see if I can maybe improve the alignment by a thou or so.
Not sure about doing this, as I don't want to make things worse. What do you think, Dan?
I just purchased a HITACHI C10RJ and the slots for the runners are tabbed on the bottom and the top of the slots does not end flush with the table top but it gets wide the last 1/4 of an inch or so, I'm having trouble making runners for it, Fabian
If it's the one I can see pictures of on Google Images, then don't worry about the tabs. Just make regular runners. Make sure they're thick enough to hang down below the top 1/4", and you'll be fine. Does that make sense? If not, you can email me and I'll see if I can come up with some pictures. I don't like to post my email address here, but you can email me from my website, thenewbiewoodworker.com. Use the "Menu" in the upper right.
Hello again, I have a question. In my local Home Depot the only hardwood available is poplar, oak and maybe walnut. Which one has less shrinkage? I am using my saw mostly outside so I am sure wood will dry really quick. Otherwise I have to go plastic for runners. Thanks.
Personally, I only use plywood now. It's dimensionally stable, and it's easy to get. Of course, you don't want poor-quality plywood like they use in housing construction, but anything that looks decent when you look at the edges should work. If you really want to use hardwood, I think it's more important that the grain runs vertically - see th-cam.com/video/0gvx-_YipOs/w-d-xo.html. Whatever you use, if you attach it using machine screws instead of glue, you can replace the runners if you ever need to. I hope that helps.
@@TheNewbieWoodworker Thanks!!!
@@sushi8204 👍
I noticed your dial indicator jig. I'm planning to make one myself. Is there a video for that jig?
No, I haven't made a video yet. But I just made a new blog post here: thenewbiewoodworker.com/2018/04/25/sketchup-model-for-my-rip-fence-micro-adjuster-jig.html
Hopefully it will help. If you have questions, leave a comment on the blog post.
I’m thinking of ordering replacement miter gauge rods from Ryobi and using those as the runners. Thoughts? Bad idea?
I haven't heard of anyone doing that, so I'd be interested in hearing how it works out. Let me know! 😄
That's what I did for mine. They are pretty short and not a perfect fir (even though they are the proprietary ones directly from Ryobi) so the sled wiggles too much and isn't perfect like I need it to be. I'm just going to use this as an excuse to get a grinder.
@@TheNickferguson58 Absolutely - that's the best way to buy tools. 😄
Awesome clearly explain
Thanks. Glad to help! 😄
I have a ryobi table saw, i'd also like to recommend using a Sawstop to cut the mitre tabs. lol
🤣
Great help thanks
Glad to help. 🙂
Sense Ryobi makes accessories that have the runners specific for their table saws. Can you just take the runners off the accessories and attach them to make runners for the sled ?
Sounds like a good idea, if the runners come off and cn be reused.
I did this for my first Craftsman sled. The problem is that the tabs and the holes beneath the tabs are rough and over time catch on the runners and rough them up, making them increasingly grabby. My runners were glued, so I couldn't easily replace them. I thought about having replaceable runners and just keeping a bunch of spares, but then I thought to myself, "what exactly is the point of the tabs?" I think they are just there to help control the cheap miter gauge. I carefully took a metal file to the tabs and I've never looked back. Trust me, it was less work "fixing" the slots than it was making the runners. I have 4 different sleds - it would be a nightmare keeping good runners on them.
Also, for larger sleds (if you really don't want to remove the tabs), use the table sides instead of the miter slots. I did this at first and it worked great... until it was time for a mini sled.
Yeah, I think cutting off the tabs is probably the best bet. Thanks!
My saw only has 1 slot for a runner so I guess I have to make a mini runner? The fence is so inaccurate too. So frustrating!!
Some of my sleds use just one runner, so it's doable.
wish i could give likes thanks much for this
You're welcome!
I didn't follow the bit on cutting rabbets - was the runner horizontal as it went through the saw?
Yes it was. Sorry I didn't make that more clear. And I'm kind of kicking myself, because as I was re-watching the video before I posted it, I wondered if that was unclear, but I ignored that thought. I should know better - never ignore your inner voice! So please let me know if you've got other questions. Thanks!
Thanks for the great video. I kept thinking about how I needed to get the bottom runner wider than the tabs. The answer I came up with is that I DON'T. I'm going to cut runners just as wide as the tabs. This will work fine unless the tabs bend. If they bend then we're both making new runners, right?
Thanks for the comment. What you're suggesting *might* work, but I suspect it won't be nearly as stable as you'd like a runner to be. But give it a try and see. And even though I normally say one runner is usually enough, in this case, make sure you use two runners, or there's probably *no* chance it will be stable enough. Good luck!
You should make the runners with the ryobi saw that your gonna use them on. Lmao. Good luck with that
I wasn't planning on keeping the saw, so I didn't want to use it.
My ryobi only has one miter slot? Every other one on TH-cam shows two.....I feel so cheated. Would I be able to make a crosscut sled for this with just one runner slot?
Absolutely. Check this out (using the runner from this video): th-cam.com/video/b-65Bs5Yi0w/w-d-xo.html.
Hey bro- amateur woodworker here too- the part at 4:00 where you're ripping a piece smaller than the opening of the table insert is dangerous- blade could easily suck that piece down in, kicking up the other end quickly and forcefully. Ask me how I know...
Thanks. But actually, it's a zero-clearance plate, so there really isn't an issue. Yes, the back part of the insert is not exactly zero-clearance, but it's narrower than the cut (it might be hard to see in the video). Otherwise, I completely agree with you, and I don't have to ask how you know, because I've been there too. 😮😄
@@TheNewbieWoodworker Oh my bad! I'm looking at the hole that the riving knife is coming through- now I see the zero clearance blade slot-
@@Holiday216 No worries, and thanks for letting me know that you saw something that might be dangerous. I can't tell you how much I've learned from comments like yours, so by all means, if you see something that looks wrong or dangerous, let me know! 😄
Dan, I may have missed this, but why cut the rabbits with the table saw vs. a router table?
No real reason, except that people might not have a router table. But feel free to do it the way you think is best, or most fun, or most challenging, or whatever! 😄
Would it be able to make the runners out of plastic instead of wood so as to avoid the expansion of the wood?
For tabbed runners, probably not, but you could try - UHMW plastic would be your best bet.
Hello Dan, I love your videos!
Now can you show us how to square the blade or stop the wobble for this Ryobi table saw, please??
I looked everywhere for this and I can’t find anything good! Thank you very much for what you do!!!
Thanks! I don't have the table saw any more, but I do have a general video on squaring a blade: th-cam.com/video/AignFa1374E/w-d-xo.html
Awesome, thanks
👍
I did not fully understand table saws when I got one during the pandemic. This a Ryobi but only has one miter slot. How would I make a sled with one runner?
I often use only one runner, on smaller sleds. Her's an example: th-cam.com/video/b-65Bs5Yi0w/w-d-xo.html
Thank you sir.
You're quite welcome! 😄
@@TheNewbieWoodworker Actually just got done making one today for a 22.5 degree miter sled. I don't trust the miter gauge for this saw, it's so wiggly. I haven't found a good alternative that fits this track.
@@stormypinkness4030 I totally understand. FYI, other people have said they've used an angle grinder to cut off the tabs, and they've had good results, including being able to use off-the-shelf miter gauges. Of course, doing that kind of surgery on your saw is one of those steps you can't undo, so take that with a grain of salt. 😄
Thanks Dan, but it's to late. I grinded the tabs off with my grinder, i will pass along i know who have a Roybi table.
Thanks! Yeah, I would have done the same thing. :)
Can you buy a miter guide that fits tables with notches? I want to build one, but it would like to but one to have. But cant seem to find them.
Not that I know if. Some people left comments saying they just cut the tabs out of their tables. I'm not saying that's a good or bad idea, but it's an option.
@@TheNewbieWoodworker thanks.
I bought the Ryobi 10" portable table saw.. and in came with only one miter slot on the right hand side of the saw .. what's up with that?? .. how do I make a sled with one slot?
Unless you make a large sled, it's fine to use just one runner.
I know it has been a while since you posted this video. I am subscribed to your channel and bought all what you recommended from Amazon. I tried to do runners for my new Craftsman 10" table saw that has same measurements in your video. Unfortunately I could not do it. If you read this comment, can you do a sled for me and I will pay you.
Thanks for the comment - I try to respond to all comments, even on older videos. Sorry, but I don't make sleds for people. My recommendation is to return the table saw and buy something else, if that's possible.
I also have a craftsman 10” table saw. I started building a a crosscut sled a few weeks ago and the runners were a nightmare. I used a CNC to cut them out to exact dimensions, I tried different materials, and eventually got frustrated and ground down the tabs…still too much slop! Finally, I had an idea that was so simple I couldn’t believe I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere else. Don’t use the miter slots! Make a wider sled and add runners to the outside edges of the table. I pulled out the extensions and used the inside edge. You don’t have to worry about making them perfect width. I learned that you can’t trust the accuracy of the dimensions of the table itself. The length of the front edge of the saw is a hair longer than the back, so my sled is tight in the beginning and a hair loose at the end when pushing. Nothing you can do besides maybe a little sanding. I altered the table enough and don’t want to go too far in the other direction. The sled is still accurate.
@@jpup2632 Interesting idea! I hope it ends up working well for you. You could also consider cutting the tabs off the slots, with an angle grinder or something similar. Although it would obviously void your warranty, since you can't really use the slots as they are, it's not like you're going to make things worse.
thanks!
You're quite welcome! 🙂
My Skil table saw has tabs too. I didn't know much about table saws when I bought it so I didn't even pay attention to the slots before buying
It seems like we have to buy something before we know enough to buy something else. 😄
@@TheNewbieWoodworker 'aint that the truth! You don't know what you don't know
@@chuckmaddox6725 Truth. 😂
Would you normally only make one runner? I thought most people put two runners on a sled. But I'm a real newbie, so what do I know.
I think you should do whatever works, but in general, I only use one runner when possible. Here's a blog article I wrote on the subject: thenewbiewoodworker.com/2018/05/07/cross-cut-sleds-why-i-only-use-one-runner.html. With that said, in my latest sled video, I had to use two: th-cam.com/video/cQINXsn2QBk/w-d-xo.html.
Do you have an idea on how to fix the fence on Ryobi saw? It can never be positioned parallel to the blade.
Well, if it has adjustment screws, I would think you could get it close with those. But if you've tried them and it hasn't worked, then I really don't have any other ideas. Sorry.
@@TheNewbieWoodworker The problem is that in the back that piece that slides is only about an inch wide while in the front is like 3-4 inches wide. So both don't slide at the same time identical distance. If I was still working in machine shop I would replace back piece with a wider piece.
@@sushi8204 Interesting. If I was in your place and didn't have any other choices (like buying a better saw), I would make some sort of jig that lets me position the fence parallel when I lock it down. Like a T made from plywood, with a long arn, or something like that. Good luck!
@@TheNewbieWoodworker Well, I finally finished with my projects (until the next one) and I had some time to take a look at what is wrong with my table saw fence. And I figured it out. It is just bad quality but I fixed it. The fence has two small nylon (?) block sitting in the track that is straight and perpendicular to the table but has an angle on the other side. Upon closer inspection I saw uneven wear marks on both side of the blocks. So what has happen is that when fence is locked it binds these blocks in the track like a wedge so moving it would be impossible. I don't understand why these blocks have to touch both sides. So I took both of them off and slightly sanded them with a fine sandpaper on both sides to make them flat and smooth. So now neither side is touching the track tightly in unlocked position and it doesn't act like a wedge. Of course when in locked position the straight side is clamping and that is how it supposed to be. And now after I unclamp it it moves very smoothly without any binding.
Next I have to build a sled but it only has one cross-track with the tabs. I own a portable router so I wonder if I can shave them off? :)
@@sushi8204 That's awesome! Doesn't it feel good to figure out something like this? At first it seems like this unfathomable thing, then when you spend a little time looking into it, it's not so complex after all. Great work! 😄
Is ash or poplar appropriate for these type runners?
From a brief Internet search, it looks like poplar is pretty stable. Ash is about middle-of-the-road. Of course, your mileage may vary. 😄
Grab a cheapo oscillating tool with a bi-metal blade and shred the wings off, file the sharp edges down and you're done. I literally JUST did this as I got 3 minutes into this video and said "Fuck this."
Again, oscillating tool with bi metal blade shreds through it like butter.
Thanks. Other people have said they used an angle grinder. And yeah, I totally get the FU comment - it would probably be my reaction too if I owned one of these saws.
I had to do the same thing for my circle jig for my craftsman bandsaw.
Thanks for the info. I didn't know the bandsaw had the same issue. But I could actually understand the tabs on a bandsaw table, because you can change the tilt, so the tabs might actually help keep the runners in the slot.