Jim Cornette on David Von Erich & Magnum T.A.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- From Episode 270 of the Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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I never tire of world class talk...
Exactly
Neither do I. Fascinating stories
me neither it is much more entertaining than the current stuff jim should just talk about the awa world class jcp stampede and all the other territories
Here here
Two of the great "what-ifs" of 80s wrestling. If neither tragedy happens, the decade probably plays out so much differently.
For Ric Flair, no doubt.
When he was merely Terry Allen, Magnum T.A. was present for the moment that changed much of the direction of The NWA, at least in Florida. Jake Roberts cashed in on a Kayfabe $1100 Bounty by breaking Barry Windham's nose with a Kneesmash on TV in Tampa on 1982. As the aghast Gordon Solie and Terry Allen looked on helplessly, Jake Roberts eventually revealed his corrupt benefactor as a man named "Bonebuster." And then "Nivek Navillus." Who if you know your Florida Pro Wrestling History HIS identity doesn't stay a mystery for very long!😉🤔🎤🌊☀️🍊🌴🤼♂️B.W.
Championship wrestling from Florida was a little bit before my time but I love learning about the history of professional wrestling. Would you mind sharing the identity of this person? If I had to guess I'd probably say Kevin Sullivan but I could easily be wrong too.
identity of who?
@@brianbradley8631 identity of whom? Your reply to the original comment doesn't make much sense.
From most of the shoot interviews I've read, David, with a lot of help from Brody, kept the boys in line. Kevin has stated that Fritz loved David best because he reminded him of himself the most, but feared him for that very same reason. When David died, the rest of the VE boys just went off the rails because Fritz was in denial.
David was a druggie too
That is such a great question! Kudos to Jim how he answered it!
It was a excellent question Shelton in all seriousness though jim answered it perfectly
This question was so good that I just punched a random stranger. That's how good the question was. Okay. That's how good it was.
the discussion also proves its kind of impossible to even answer because all we can do is estimate their trajectory. imagine if Stone Cold died while in wcw and people were trying to guess his impact on the business had he lived... anyone that actually did would be told they were way overhyping him and living in fantasy land
MJF left the media scrum by shooting "Thank you, F you, bye", Corny must be in heaven right now. 😂
@@tylermcnally8232 That’s Cornette’s catchphrase and Cornette is a huge fan of MJF. It’s a nice show of respect to Cornette from one of today’s talents that really gets the industry
@@juansanchez209 Seems like him and Punk are the ONLY ones that get what the business is actually about.
@@coreyhall1150 100000% correct
Ya that was fucking great promo altogether
It’s too bad the shirt isn’t in stock.
I apologize.. I saw the Von Erichs wrestle live in the late 70's to '83..
I love watching Magnum also..
David's death really took a toll on me. He was a natural at professional wrestling, I always said that Barry Windham's movements and style was based off David..
Love to both great men.. Thank you🙏🏿❤✊🏿
Nice insight on Windham.
Magnum and Nikita could have been sensational in WCW going into the 90’s with guys like the horseman LOD Sting Luger and the Steiner’s. Do many what if’s.
Mike’s return was incredibly sad. There was no doubt in my mind the poor guy suffered brain damage from what he went through. His family should’ve protected him from coming back. His dignity and self respect wasn’t considered. It was all about the gate.
Mike had no business wrestling in the first place. Same as Chris. Fritz is responsible for both of those deaths.
Michael Hayes said that David hands down understood the business best of the boys.
Yep, a number of WCCW wrestlers/alumni said he would have been the best Von Erich as far as working in the office and taking care of the promotion. That says it all.
@@jimcornette00 you're a scam
For sure, you can see it when you watch old shows. David had the psychology of wrestling down. He had no wasted movement in the ring. Every movement had purpose. You would never catch David just standing still for 10 secs waiting on a spot.
@@theravagedgrapefruit8190 He also wasn’t afraid of his father. He also would’ve been an emotional support system for Mike & a stabilizing influence on his brothers
Imagine if Chris Von Erich, instead of trying to be a wrestler had become a heel manager turning against his family. His whole gimmick could have been that he was the bitter black sheep of the family because he was smaller and shunned by his father.
Ironically the big winner in both scenarios was Flair. With David dying and Terry being incapacitated, keeping the belt on Flair became the fallback. I guess the real question is how does it affect Flair's legacy of either and or both tragedies don't happen?
Flair was already legend status at that point, and at worst would have had a Harley Race role where he swapped the belts back and forth with TA or David for a long while. I think people think of Flair's legacy being established in the mid-late 80's, forgetting how perfectly his career had been crafted for over a decade by then.
He would have been champ a lot either way
Finally a episode where we talk about the old days and not dumb ass shit going on today, wtf
From what I’ve heard of the two, I’d say David probably had more of an impact on the business. He was liked by so many and even Harley Race and Ric Flair both put him over as a future world champ.
Magnum was also a world champ in the making but I’m not sure if he was as established as David at the time of his accident.
Always a great what if scenario.
@jimcornette00 hi Jim replying for the prize I won
Also, David did the best promos of the VEs
David Von Erich was a generation behind the direction the business was going towards. He would have been great for World Class, he'd probably gone to Turner and had an ok run but he wouldn't have ever been a tippy top of the card guy for anyone but World Class.
Magnum T.A. was a big reason Crocket got so hot. He looked great, he's a guy that had charisma just standing there, he could work.
Magnum could have been what Sting became in terms of popularity.
Correct. Well done.
David was a regional star … Magnum was on the way to Hogan-like national stardom.
@@MortonT1958 David was a regional star in several places. Not too mention WCCW was seen in alot of places
I seen video of David in Florida as a heel helping flair against butch Reed that was a great storyline.
I would have loved to hear Fritz try to explain that to texas fans. Something like the "sumo referee" bit that he said was responsible for Kerry losing to Flair in Japan.
to me , Magnum couldn't cut a promo for nothing.
If Magnum hadn't had to retire is my favorite what if in wrestling. He was JCP's answer to Hogan. But he could work,and he wasn't a cartoon character.
Magnum was a shinning star in JCP. The Von Erichs were Texas wrestling. David was a better worker than Magnum. I think both would have been world champions. David 1st, back to Flair, concluding with Magnum over the course of 5 or 6 years.
I think David has a couple of runs with the belt & I also believe if David had lived Crockett doesn't take control of the NWA as soon as he dose because the Von Erich/ Flair angle with the World title could go for a couple of years with Magnum finally winning the title from either Flair or Von Erich at Starrcade 87.
@@buddypickard3106 I think your scenario is very likely.
Magnum TA is to me the biggest what if image if he didn’t get that accident I definitely say he be NWA heavyweight champion and Flair knew be right for the business to do, when I first saw Magnum, I was like when did Tom Selleck take up wrestling
Lance Von Erich.....terrible idea I don't know what Fritz was thinking
Fritz took the fans for granted and obviously thought they were gullible and willing to believe anything he said. He was on such a power/ego trip that he legit thought that anything called "Von Erich" would sell tickets. Obviously he was dead wrong. Fans were much smarter than he thought they were, and a lot of them never trusted him after that terrible fiasco.
@@jonathanturbide2232 They did bring Waldo in to sell the gimmick but Lance was the WORST possible choice.
Never knew they brought Waldo in
@@GetBenched2010 when and where
I think at that point Fritz was grasping at straws trying to get the fans invested again. Lance looked great and he was great in the ring but when his cover was blown there was nothing you could do to save it.
I always figured that if Magnum didn't get over at Starrcade 86, it would have been during the Bash in the summer of 87. I really didn't start watching WCCW until around late 85. But yes, both had a huge impact
Quit laundering money,Leo.
@@JohnnyLaps it was only half a billion....
@@leogetz3570 😎
@@leogetz3570 because, whatever Leo wants....Leo Getz!
If either of them won the belt, wouldn’t they have just lost it back to Flair a month later like everyone else?
Pretty much. But woulda been a bit longer
I think Magnum's accident really changed things most for Sting. I think Sting probably still becomes what he did, but the accident sped up the process.
Yep I agree. It's probably the early 90's instead of the late 80's when Sting becomes a star.
About 2 years after I started watching wrestling I was sitting there in the living room on a Saturday night and heard the announcement that David had died. Since then I've heard all this talk about how wonderful he was. And I never really understood it. Now yeah, it was my early teen years but I just never saw what everybody else saw in David. Maybe if I were older I would have seen it.
Anyone remember a young Terry Allen (Magnum T.A.) vs. Nick Bockwinkle in AWA?
Southwest
David would have been the go to. He was established in a higher level. Mushcnik in STL loved him and that was the key to the NWA.
M U C H N I C K
Magnum wouldve had a run in wwf as well eventually.
Seeing as how fond vince was I'm sure von erich is there too
Happy thanksgiving and Starcade season!
Love these speculative questions.
Magnum TA vs. The Hitman Brett Hart! Dude!
BRET DUDE
As to David - I think if they had made an alliance with JCP - maybe they could have had a means to establish a southern stronghold against Vince - but that would mean Fritz would have to smarten up - so probably not, but a guy can dream.
As to Magnum - I still think a heel turn would have been revolutionary - where he Magnum joins the Horsemen - and slowly becomes the leader and he oust Flair and then Flair on the outside battling him.
Now that I think about it - Flair and Hart - that would have beeeeeeeeeen great.
If magnum somehow turned heel and joined the horsemen at wargames in 87 that would have been Hogan Joining the nwo 9 years earlier. That storyline would have turned the industry on its ear! Flair, magnum, tully, arn and windham vs the road warriors, dusty, nikita, and sting from 87 to 89.
William Shakespeare would have looked at the Von Erichs and said, “Nah people will never believe this tragedy.”
MagnumTA was one of my first memories of wrestling.
He was the reason I fell in love with the sport and i HATED Nikita for a long time!!!!! I didn't even trust him when he teamed with Dusty. Man, what a great time to live, back when it was sooooo real and believable!!!!!
1986 was a great year in NWA and World Class Championship Wrestling
Chi Town Rumble 86 Main Event for my money was one the best main events of all time.
@@yoholmes273 that was 89
Magnum vs Flair..vs Nikita..vs Tully..vs Windham...would have been classic title defenses
And even if he did a heal turn...vs Dusty..vs Sting
It would have carried to the WCW buyout
Oct 14th 1986...changed alot
I was watching some world class episodes on the network. And theirs a great episode were Fritz and Kevin have to explain why David was acting differnt out in Florida.
What was the reason?
@@bull705 I think basically they say he isn't really different he's just being more aggressive.
Salt of the Earth baby!🏆💪
To me, when Magnum had his accident it just affected Crockett. When David died it affected several promotions due to the far reach of the NWA at the time.
WHEN MAGNUM WRECKED EVERYONE KNEW ABOUT IT, WHEN DAVID DIED IT WAS JUST A LOCAL STORY
@@andrewclayterman6230 All the territories had a memorial to David Von Erich, even WWF.
@@andrewclayterman6230 nope. It was national. As Corny mentioned, the WWF did a ten bell salute for him on their television shows and it was acknowledged in the other NWA promotions and non-NWA promotions, especially Mid South.
If you were going to do some sort of crossover, Magnum vs Savage would have been $$$.
David and it ain’t close.
The Heart Wants What It Wants
Great song by Selena Gomez!
Magnum was on the rise and that accident was so sad and tragic. David dying was a tragedy and very sad. Magnum was on his way to be champion and was a great baby face. Magnum would of been a star in any company he was good and got the Dusty Rhodes rub.
Fritz Vonerich and Jim Crockett would have to have a great relationship in order for David to have any real run with the belt
just awesome convo from Corny
In my opinion, with David's death, it was the beginning of the end of WCCW. And remember, WCCW had a "green" Dingo Warrior (Ultimate Warrior) & Sting. If David didn't die, would the Ultimate Warrior & Sting, be who we know them today?
Only the Dingo was in WCCW. The Blade Runners split up and had gone their separate ways.
@@jasonkohm8804
But didn't Sting compete in single matches in WCCW, as well? I remember seeing him?
I think David dying was the bigger tragedy. The trajectories that death changed were more encompassing than Magnum's accident: the death spiral of World Class, the eventual destruction of the whole family. Magnum's accident really didn't alter the course of Mid-Atlantic or the NWA, because there were still such huge stars to come with Luger and Sting, plus Flair was still the undisputed top wrestler of the 80s. Magnum is more of a "what-if" while David's death did have major ramifications for the business.
As far as how well Magnum would have done as champ in 86 or 87, I don't think his first title reign would have been especially long. It might have been a trial balloon sent up, just to see how fans took to him as champ. He would have probably dropped the belt back to Flair before long and then, if fans really liked Magnum even more and business was either as good or better with him as champ, he and Flair would have possibly traded it a couple of times before Magnum eventaully became "the guy". You still would have had Luger and Sting coming in too, which would have meant some interesting things to consider. Maybe Magnum would have turned heel, or those guys would have been heel challengers to him. The possibilities...
I disagree but just a little bit. From everything I've heard, the Crocketts and Dusty had decided that in very short order, Magnum TA would be their superstar. They had every intention of making him the face of the franchise, the Hulk Hogan of the NWA. And they were ready to throw everything into making that happen. Now would it have worked? I have some doubts. But it would not have worked with both Flair and Magnum, imho. At that point, you can imagine a world where Flair goes to the WWE in 1987. This doesn't leave the same role for Sting. What Flair does in the scenario of Magnum as top guy is the wild card for me.
FLAIR WAS UNDISPUTED??
As a Kid,I thought Magnum was unstoppable.He'd been one of the all time greats if the accident hadn't occured.He was on fire those last 2 years.
As a kid I didn’t even know about WCW/NWA. I was only exposed to WWF in the 80s. As an adult, I watch WCW/NWA and think to myself “this is real fn wrestling”.
David was going to be the Stone Cold in world class,he would beat up faces and heels except for his brothers, Magnum would have gotten over and would have been a huge cross over star, Mike never wanted to wrestle he wanted to be his dad right hand man...
In reality WCCW peaked in the year or two after David died, Rather he could have saved the company is doubtful as the NWA was still going to be controlled by Crocket so no more NWA champ coming to Dallas and Fitz wasn't going to be willing or able to compete with WCW and the WWF for top talent
I'm a big time Magnum TA & Vonerichs fan, I believe all would of been industry changing scenarios for the better, Wow, what if 🤔
Yeah, maybe McMahon wouldn’t have been able to destroy pro wrestling forever.
@@jeremypassmore7019 still had hogan in NY
@@chrischar9428 yeah, but McMahon seemed to want to eliminate ANY competition, no matter how small. And turn their top stars into jobbers. McMahon never helped wrestling. He helped himself.
@@jeremypassmore7019 what top guy jobbed. I mean he took his own guys like garea and moved them down the card for new guys.
@@chrischar9428 serious? Out of the PNW, we have Rip Oliver, Brady Boone, Matt Borne. From FCW you had Brian Blair, Barry Horowitz. Ron Garvin. Black Bart. Jim Brunzell.
i never really saw david he died before saw wrestling, and magnum got hurt before i saw him... but what ive seen of david, he wasnt great on the mic, but i could see how he would be over with that texas farm boy persona , t a definetly had the look and abilty to be top guy at that time..very good counter to what flair was doing..
Kerry Von Erich was the best all around wrestler of all his family! Best look, best ability in ring! Period!
Please
But Mike doesn't die because he may never had to wrestle if David was still alive. Maybe Mike can put his foot down ans stay on as a camera man. It was on the Rise and Fall of WCCW DVD
I'd dad wants him in ring...
Magnum coulda taken on Hogan. He wouldn’t have been as big, but dang he would have made it interesting. He had Dusty booking and mentoring him. So sad he couldn’t finish what he started.
That is what we are missing today a champion to travels to other promotions and challenges their top guys. TNA should have done what the old NWA had done and challenged a lot of the indy promotions top guys and had them on there weekly ppvs.
Kevin Von Erich briefly worked for WWF in MSG under Vince Sr.
1986 in World Class also had Gino's fatal cocaine overdose
Jim Cornette did a great job in explaining his views about Magnum TA and David Von Erich…….
David was already on the card v Rick flair for the NWA belt at Texas stadium when he died. Kerry took the match and held the belt for a short time but David would have held it for a while I think. He was a lot better at everything than Kerry.
Not at that point
@@chrischar9428 true, Kerry was better at wrestling on one foot.
@@toyranch ok if your just going to talk out of your ass....
@@chrischar9428 "you're"
Mike Von Erich wouldnt have had the pressure from Fritz to fill David’s shoes. Mike would have probably eventually wrestled, but the pressure for him to be the star wouldnt be there. He wouldnt have worked through injury and by that rationale, he wouldnt have caught toxic shock syndrome.
So David dying really was the beginning of the end for the Von Erich family and the World Class territory. Remember that Jackie Atkinson died at age 6 from electrocution before Fritz got deep into the wrestling game. This family, Doris and Fritz, had seen tragedy before. Sad. What could have been for that territory?
Gino, David, Mike, Chris, Chris Adams, Brody, etc. all gone. I think there is more but those are the ones I can think of right now.
If the stone cold character from the 90,s wrestled In Dallas back when all the von erichs did he would’ve been more over then them
What movie was Kerry up for?
Magnum going to the late 80s would have been the best.
David would have been way more territory...
NWA World Champ had to be able to be a heel and face. Could Magnum have been a heel???
Magnum was Stone Cold before Stone Cold. He was punching out the boss and could have easily been the anti hero
Yeah Magnum punched that Geigle guy all in his facial area
I'd like to know when and how Jim (and the boys, i.e. wrestlers) found out about Kerry only having one foot.
Hangman TA!
The bigger mistake Fritz made was leaving the NWA when Crockett took it over. As much as the fans believed in the business, deep down, they knew the Von Erichs would always win in the end. But when Ric Flair showed up, all bets were off. When this level of intrigue was off the table, the product went south and so did interest in what was now considered a minor league promotion..
Damn right!! The benefit of staying the NWA would have been having ACCESS to JCP superstars at times. When WCCW's business would struggle, Dusty and Crockett could have sent JCP stars there to pop a house! Imagine the Parade of Champions cards WITH JCP stars on them! Imagine a War Games match with Dusty, Kerry, Kevin, and Brody battling the Horsemen in Texas Stadium! Plus we could have seen Kerry, Kevin, and Brody appear on JCP TV as well.
Central Stats, Florida, and the other NWA territories weren't worth keeping around when JCP bought them out. YET he still tried to run those territories for awhile. WCCW WOULD HAVE been worth keeping around in my opinion. If they stay in the NWA, I think Dusty would have talked Crockett into giving them a helping hand. Or AT WORST, JCP buys them out too. Closes them down and Fritz get a nice retirement payoff. And certain WCCW stars become key players in the JCP world!
Without dates on The champ ....hard to stay
@@chrischar9428 But EVEN WITHOUT dates on the champ, it was still the better move to stay in the NWA. BECAUSE WCCW STILL could have had access to JCP superstars. IF ANYTHING! You still get LOD, RnR Express, Magnum, Tully, Arn, Ole, Nikita, Midnights, etc. OUTSIDE of NWA World Title defenses by Flair!
That's why it was SHORTSIGHTED on Fritz's part to leave the NWA MAINLY because of dates on the champ! WWWF could go in and out of the NWA BECAUSE they could stand on their own two feet! Population wise, they had the biggest company in the US! The Big Apple and MSG as its major hub!
WCCW POST DVE'S DEATH wasn't in a position to stand on its own and be a national force. Being in the NWA, Crockett would have had to address their situation at some point. He was trying to consolidate the NWA in the mid 80's. Of ALL THE territories outside of JCP, WCCW had the most to offer in the mid 80's. Once Dusty left Florida, they were never the same.
So JCP buys out WCCW, shuts them down, and takes the top stars of WCCW to JCP. OR Crockett keeps WCCW alive, they create a close working relationship, and WCCW gets major help from the JCP roster. Either scenario would have been better than WCCW leaving the NWA!
@@bizil100 so why pay dues if you don't get the champ. That's the whole point.
@@chrischar9428 Nah the WHOLE POINT is doing what is best for business! WCCW was in NO POSITION to stay viable and be a national power. If they had a way to do that, then by ALL MEANS leave the NWA. BUT WCCW was in no such position when Fritz left the NWA. IF they did it before DVE passed away and left the NWA, that would be totally different. But when they left the NWA, the glory days were already over. And history PROVES it was a terrible mistake to leave the NWA.
And when JCP decided to consolidate the NWA and buy the UWF, WCCW was ALREADY out of the NWA! If they stay in the NWA, Crockett would have addressed their situation. Even Fritz gets bought out totally OR JCP decides to keep WCCW around.
JCP KEPT UWF, Central States, and FLA around for awhile after buying them. AND THEN shut them down. He likely keeps WCCW around for awhile. Due to the fact he has the DFW metroplex, WCCW had a chance to REBOUND in a way the other terrritories didn't! Gary Hart himself said it was a MAJOR MISTAKE to leave the NWA! And Kerry was just world champ in 1984. That's why I said EVENTUALLY Dusty could be mediate something between JCP and Fritz. Because I would rather pay dues to the NWA and have that security AS OPPOSED to leaving and being even more worse off!
Had David Von Erich lived Hulkamania wouldve been challenged and who knows what Vince would have done I think after being nwa champ he'd have gone up to wwf and challenged Hogan.
By the time Kerry went to WWF he had already lost his foot to the motorcycle accident.
I thought David was a lot more talented than Magnum T.A
David was the bigger tragedy
David all the way he was world champion material! Magnum was more of a mid-card that got pushed to the world championship!
I had no idea who Magnum was in 1984. I cried my eyes out over David. Kerry was always Fritz favorite according to books and other outlets. 1986, after Kerry was injured I stopped watching all wrestling for years.
I'd probably have gone with Kerry von Erich versus Magnum TA personally as their accidents were very similar.. I think Carrie had a better chance of becoming WWF champion if he was reliable and clean. Which would have been cool to see that play out, and then Magnum as NWA champions, maybe in an alternate universe..
If David lived , guarantee he would have kept his Brothers alive.
Mike especially. According to reports he was very close with Mike.
The NWA collapsed as we knew it after Magnum's tragic accident. The NWA had a smaller main event roster. There were less options for cards. After 1987 and Wargames, there was an evident decline. World Class had a larger roster after David's passing, plus they still had Kerry and Kevin who were still huge/over. The NWA was at one point in my opinion more popular than Hogan mania and the WWF.
Not exactly
@@chrischar9428 Would you care to elaborate?
@@ronniebobbyedition993 the NWA collapsed when Vince rolled into STL and declared war. The final gasp was when dusty overspent the Crocketts into bankruptcy
@@ronniebobbyedition993 Crockett killed the alliance by not giving dates on Flair. IMHO the only way Crockett lasts is by consolidation. One giant company like WWF. One boss in charge.
@@chrischar9428 Everyone knows what killed the territories, but the question was who lost more the NWA when Magnum went down or WCCW when David Von Erich died?
I loved Magnum TA, always thought of him as a hogan 2.0.
🙄
DVE hands down
Never thought David was all that good in the ring. Kerry was the biggest star of the bunch. Could have been a bigger star without all his demons .
But tell me THIS: What if the Shockmaster hadn't fallen on his face? Just imagine HIS run as NWA Heavyweight (and I do mean heavy) Championship. (
Lol...wasn’t it Booker T that uttered “Who is this Mother F*cker” after he fell.
david could have been a better heel than magnum.
Fuck ya, TA and Hart? Would have been one of the best matches ever.
Yes, but did World Class leave the NWA in early 1986 or did Crockett kick them out of the NWA by refusing to book Flair in Texas? If the latter, then Crockett effectively ended the NWA territory system, perhaps more directly than McMahon raiding talent. No more traveling champion unless in Crockett controlled areas.
I remember the Kayfabe press conference in World Class; booker Ken Mantell explained that leaving the NWA was mostly over Flair always disqualifying himself. But that didn't hold water. And made the Von Erichs look weak; they couldn't win the world title, so they made one up.
Stop waffeling
To think that Brodus Clay is now the NWA World Heavyweight Champion … 🤦🏿♂️
He is. Fucking cry about it.
Look at the list of NWA title holders from the time they split with WCW and hooked up with TNA.Tyrus at least has name recognition as opposed to most of them.
Focus asshat
I am happy I saw Magnum TA wrestled prior to his car accident……😢
Magnum TA would have been a star in the NWA if it was not for the accident….
Food for thought: If Magnum TA had not been in the accident and went on to be world champion, does Sting ever arrive to be one of Flair's biggest rivals and, arguably, most over babyface?
People would use "Magnum TA" rather than "Tommy Rich" to mean a short-time Champion...
@@danielburger1775 Only if his reign was 5 days or less.
I never got Magnum TA. He was super thin, that stache was terrible. Never remember him having a great match.
He had a good look for the 80's, and was a pretty good worker (I recommend you to watch the classic I Quit vs Tully, his Superclash match vs Flair or any match vs Nikita Koloff). He had some star power too. However, it's ridiculous to think he would have been as big or bigger than Hogan, he didn't have Hulk's charisma/magnetism and the Crocketts would have never been able to market him properly since they had no idea how to market their stars in the first place. My guess is that Magnum would have been a good champion for a few months before dropping it back to Flair, I certainly don't believe he would have saved the promotion (if Flair couldn't save Crockett Promotion then nobody else could).
@@jonathanturbide2232 Man, I watched those matches in real time as a kid and then I’ve rewatched them recently to see if I was missing something. It made me appreciate the other workers more than him. Tully and Flair could have a good match w/ anyone. Koloff at the end could have decent to good power v. power matches or matches where he rag dolled someone.
I feel like the bookers thought he could be a better looking Dusty Rhodes. Really get the ladies to watch w/ the Magnum PI look and name Association. Maybe he just wasn’t for me.
Super thin? He was built like a truck. No great matches? The cage against Tully called and wants a chat
@@kevindouglas5333 I stand corrected. For some reason I was thinking of a smaller version. I had to go back and check, I was remembering him w/ a physique similar to Jake Roberts.
Have any others than that cage match?
Those were the good ole days of the NWA (82-86').
🤔
Mid-south
Mid-Atlantic
Dallas
Houston
Florida
Georgia
Memphis
Southeast. Central States. Calgary. Portland.🤔🎤🤼♂️B.W.
Magnum,it's undeniable.
David, like most his kin just didn't have IT
David had it.
Kerry Von Erich had IT!
@@seanwhitehouse2274 No, he could have had it..
Personal demons are a bitch
@@cbod14 he never would have been a Rick Flair.
Good worker, but so was the Brooklyn Brawler
@@sethdunavant1831 Kerry & David both had charisma but David was promised The NWA title.
I loved that Magnum's finisher was the Belly To Belly.
I would say Magnum because that accident was the downfall of the NWA when you look at every aspect of what was going on back then with bookings. If he became champion then he and Ric would have been chasing that title all over the place and was very much in demand to see those two wrestle. By late 1987 the territory was on a downward slope and I firmly believe Magnum would have been the only guy who could have changed that to give MANY contenders some great matches for the title such as any of the horsemen, the Russians, the list is so long I could not tell you any better in detail. He was white hot when chasing the title with Ric and all of his matches were great and he made everyone look even better than they were. If he never had that accident I believe the territory could have survived and possibly even be here still today and stuck to their own cities that sold tickets. Money would have flowed and as long as Crockett didn't spend money he didn't have it would have been around far longer and stronger than ever. David was great too, just he would have had a run with the title for a shorter time and to be honest did not look the part as a wrestling heavyweight champion. He could wrestle, had great charisma, but the promos lacked substance. He would have been good with the schedule I believe, he never missed shows, or appearances. Ric looked the part as a champion and would even demand respect without asking for it as a champion should. David was not at that same level with the experience that Ric had as a traveling champion and I feel it would have been almost a flash in the pan for half of 1984, mostly to be chased by Ric for the title. They would not have drawn as much money in the territories as Magnum and Flair I feel. Magnum was known more in a wider audience than David was with all things considered. Magnum wrestled in many more territories than David did and yes the market in Texas would have been hot for David, even Florida and Mid-South, everywhere else he would have been looked upon as "Who the hell is that with the World Title around his waist?" See where I'm getting at?
David was huge in Texas, Florida, and STL. And japan
Thats why you have tv to build up new champion
@@chrischar9428 Yes, very true on those territories. However, you had Fritz who would have held him in Texas for the most part which was the old school way of thinking. As far as David having the "it" factor he had it all except the look really. He was more lanky than muscular and although very tall he didn't quite have that look of a champion meaning looking imposing and intimidating. Flair was muscular and looked like he could whip some people around, though he never did. He would have been a great champion for a short run, even two because he loved the business, was very smart psychologically, and a huge fan base in Texas, but the question would be there regarding long term, or short term. Magnum also had the "it" factor with everything, except he was still a little green around the gills. Like David who just needed to lift the weights more, Magnum needed to get that experience needed to hold his own while being a traveling world champion, two things both could have done without question either. As far as who would have been the better of the two, that can only be speculated really as both were prodigies and were young and hungry for all of the miles they would have been traveling. I believe that the "chase" is more exciting than winning the title (I enjoyed the chase for the title when I was in Golden Gloves boxing and was to face the champ finally with a 16-0 winning streak, but the commission found I had been boxing while having arthritis everywhere and they put an * next to my name and told me I was retired there and then) and feel David would have been good on the shorter run than the long run due to his dad needing him in Dallas to keep the fans happy, while Magnum would have been also a short run champ by making money with the chase and the many other heels to go against. I can only imagine though what would have really happened...exciting stuff really!
@@scypsylock9402 dory didn't have a look
Props to the guy who emailed this excellent question. Fascinating topic.
Thanks
The 80s. Were the greatest time to be a wrestling fan…. All the territories. Wwe. Nwa. Awa. World class from texas. Mid south. All territorys. Were stacked with talent……. Glad i got to. Grow up and watch it all…. 💯
it made us who we are today
I agree completely!! To add to your point, in the 1980's I was in elementary school in East Tennessee & ( this is a bold statement but it's a truthful statement) for about a 4 year period Crockett NWA was more important to us than Tennessee Vols football!! It was literally at the heart of our daily lives!! I love all the old school wrestling TH-cam channels because of the memories, it definitely was the best time for wrestling!!!
Me too
Agreed. But then again, just about everything was better in the 80s
Champion wrestling Florida CWF was super hot in the early mid 1980s
Territory stories are just so old school and fascinating I never get enough
If David had lived and Magnum not been in that accident, Flair would not have been champion as many times.
Nah. David gets Kerry's short 84 reign. And Magnum gets Garvin's short 87 reign.
@@danielburger1775 David was set up for a long term reign. Ric would have still been a viable champion and would have gotten the belt again at some point, but David was going to get a good run
@@johnepants That's the story now. Just like with Magnum.
In reality, we would have still got Flair. At best, David would have had a few months, before dropping it back to Flair.
@@danielburger1775 IDK... I've seen some speculation through the years that JCP was looking to elevate Magnum to 'Face of the Company"... and was looking to Pivot with the 'all American baby Face' .. but Losing magnum; he soldiered through with Flair as the Heel
I assure you that Shawn D Brock IS my given name. One of my thoughts that wasn't talked about is that if David had a longer run with the title (it certainly would have been longer than Kerry's), Crockett doesn't get to monopolize it. Also Fritz doesn't leave the NWA when he did.
David's death is the fulcrum to everything-David gets a longer run/runs, you save CWF/St Louis, TBS stays with WCW as a territory and Vince has to reload
What many people don’t realize is that Kerry did have a run with the belt as a traveling champion.
After winning the title at Texas Stadium, Kerry went to Florida for a few weeks to defend the belt there.
For whatever reason (whether it was agreed in advance he’d only keep it for a few weeks, or the NWA board called an audible after seeing Kerry work), Flair gets the title back in Japan.
@@troyturner173
David having the belt was not going to save the territories from Vince.
Vince was going through each territory and poaching the top talent, not because he necessarily thought they’d help him draw, but to prevent the competition from being able to draw.
Case in point: Junkyard Dog. The hottest baby face in New Orleans from 1980-84, then Vince calls up and offers him twice as much money and half as much work schedule as Watts did, and JYD left (without giving Watts any notice). Dog gets to WWF, and gets fat.
@@SonnyBubba I never said that Vince wouldn't become a factor at a point in the future, just that David being alive-and NWA champion-would have shored up the NWA, and caused Vince to regroup before taking another run
This is an awesome question and conversation! If David lives, is Mike even pushed? Maybe he never get injured and contracts TSS and gets his brain fried. Does Kerry totally go over the deep end? Could he have kept from crashing and losing the foot etc….So many dominoes with David’s unfortunate death.
Mike started wrestling before David passed away..