BATTLE ANALYSIS: Victor vs Bruce Almighty at Red Bull BC One 2015 // .stance
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- .stance analysis on the battle between Victor vs Bruce Almighty, the finals at Red Bull BC One 2015 featuring Dyzee
With Dyzee's help, we analyze some of the Red Bull BC One battles. A few things:
- yes, we would love to get more people involved. But with everyone in different parts of the world and the immediacy of these videos, I felt having a friend like Dyzee, who was at the event, analyze the battles would be beneficial.
- these are just concept videos done at home to help the viewers understand the judging results. The judging decisions are final, we are just helping viewers understand them.
If you like these, there are more coming! Ideally I would love to be at the event, with a separate studio space to do an official post-analysis. I feel having the time to look back and think is much more beneficial than explaining everything in livestream realtime.
My humble opinion:
Bruce had originality and musicality with his power/top rock/footwork... Victor is a technician patterns and power with minimal style and the same damn freeze over and over again...
Thought it went the same way with Killa Kolya vs El Niño...
bruec had no footwork power or toprock. the heck you watching?
wheelz114 no offense, but what were you watching? Bruce literally pointed out like 3 times that Victor had nothing to offer as far as top rocking...just like Alkolil, he doesnt follow through though alkolil has better top then victor. I understand its personal flavor on how you like top rocking, but even with that the AMOUNT both did and what "effort" they put into the style, that was Bruce by a big margin. To me that is.
Bruce was just trying to wen the crowd with comadie dis ant no damn comdie show dis a battle son victor had that get $*** out a here care a der
this is why Dyzee, Hong10, Ronnie, and Lilou should be judges instead...Damn why isn't dyzee a judge?!?!?!
+Dan Jones While I personally believe they would all be relatively unbiased... It's too easy to say something about three of them being Red Bull BC One all-stars, even if they're from different original crews. I would like them to be judges, just probably not the same year.
^ ken swift, focus, cico, wing,and storm should take a break from judging... We need more elite bboy judging.
really good and complete analysis!!
I think you should also consider what they did in the previous battles, victor repeated more, bruce had a more various arsenal, but maybe judges dont look at that?
+Kaio so che sei italiano quindi scrivo così, ricorda però che bruce al world final ha fatto esattamente le stesse cose che fece alla finale europea, nulla di nuovo ;)
Blond vs Menno 2014 Bc One
Hong 10 vs Victor 2014 Bc One
Taisuke vs Lilou 2013 Bc One
These need to be discussed right now
Blond vs Menno 2014 Bc One really
but you forgot the repets moves from victor
Pedro Faria repeat*?
one of the biggest reasons of why this will always be a controversial is a question many judges debate and bboys debate and that is:
"DO YOU JUDGE BASED ON THE BBOYS PERFORMANCE OVERALL OR JUST THE BATTLE ALONE?"
there are millions of arguments as to why both of these are good or bad...
if you look at the performance perspective no one was even close to matching bruce,hell half the people didn't even know who he was and yet he outperformed everyone showing that he is incredibly skilled in the art of battling and he also showed quick adapting to the situation and a sense of "controlling the show"...i was shocked by him all night no one has ever done that jacket spin he pulled off,the red bull can freeze and my god the time he took his shoes of who would have thought someone would come to red bull bc one and be so goofy and different yet still pull it of...
if you look at dymanic this is where victor was ahead because bruce had some questionable stops and freezes where victor actually played it safe with a standard "you go first i'll do my best to answer you" battle tactic and it worked...
i personally believe that outside influences had a lot to do with the wings decision,and i believe lamine should be disregarded as a judge whatsoever because the dude is biased as fuck (always votes for friends) and you can pretty much bribe him for his vote...overall i'm happy with the event but i'm very unhappy of the results because i think that victor didn't even deserve to win vs lil zoo before that stupid extra round...
but hey...that's just my 2 cents
' I AGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HOWEVER BRUCE WASN'T RESPONDING TO ANYTHING THAT VICTOR DID..HE JUST STAYED IN HIS LANE WHEN YOU BATTLE YOU HAVE TO RESPOND TO WHAT THE OTHER DOES THEN DO YOU
MY 2 CENTS
bruce showing more creativity and musicality, and he has really a lot more creativity then victor. after 2 rounds victor just showing what he shows earlier ( im about halos, 99-s, freezes and some footwork) and he just dont do ANY TOPROCKS showing just 1 move . both bboys do a great job, but reaallly, how u can win so big competition doing 1 same stuff ? its just my thougts about it. thx, hope u answer to that.
"99's"
Both videos have been dope, and really well explained. Thank you Dyzee!
+BOBNUSHI more to come this weekend! We will do Killa Kolya vs El Nino. Then Sunni vs Bruce.
+stance I think victor vs lil zoo needs to be discussed
+stance Can't wait for the KIlla Kolya one, that battle started a full on flame war :D
+stance Thank you also! Consistently great videos, much appreciated :D
I hope Dyzee will turn this into a series or something. It was very informative and well thought. I love that he didn't gave his own opinion on who won for the sake of being objective in his analysis and to allow us to have our own opinion on the matter. Respect to both b-boys and the judges. I hope that Dyzee will make the battle analysis into a series, covering from major event to major event
yes bro! we need the our system in red bull bc one! :)
That is why we have to judge EVERY aspect of dancing, that's also why bboying doesn't have the notoriety of other forms of art ! EVERY aspect have to been taken into account, not just some. Imagine in the film industry during the oscars if someone like special effects he's gonna vote for Avengers, if someone is more into litterature he's gonna vote for a Tarantino move... but they don't, they judge the full aspect and value more what's RARE or mindblowing, which clearly some don't in Bboying !
So far, only OUR is doing an advanced job on that point !
thank you for the analysis, it's great !
Bruce more creative , original, was more on beat and more complete throughout the whole battle. Idk how victor won this. If it were up to me it'll go to Bruce clear to me.
El_REY_LEAL809 yes you're right!Victor won that battle maybe just because the judges like his flavor more than Bruce's ..Everybody have their own perspective so when the level is the same The winner will goes who is more lucky that more judges like..
People are too easily disregarding how meaningful it is to have not just footwork but original footwork concepts. Viktor was throwing out creative footwork for the entire event and almost no one replied to him on a meaningful level..
+sam ura wiewers don't even get it but it's also because cameras move too much during the event, with the steady cam you can clearly see how he was extremely good in footworks the whole event
Great video and Concept!! the only thing id say is to edit some of Dyzee's mistakes out. other than that solid work
What about all those repeats?!
Repeats really depend on perspective and especially in a long tourney repeats are bound to come about but it's Mainly how you either set it up or come out of a certain set of move that might be considered a repeat its like say a soup, you have a certain way you make it but then turn around and put 1 little thing to just switch it up, if that makes sense
Thank you Stance for organizing this, and thank you Dyzee for sharing some insight!
One question to Dyzee: as a judge, how do you weight repeats? and if you do ever respond to this, how is it accounted for in the our system?
I personally think the our system is the most developed and fair judging system thus far, so thank you for that as well haha.
Dyzee you are a legend , thank you for giving us this insight into the battle , your passion for the culture is so inspiring come to Ireland one day we would love you to share sum of that passion hear , ps well done in freestyles you have no idea how inspiring it is for the older breakers to see you break ,( sorry for going of the subject
how about repeating?
Thanks for taking the effort to make this. It's much appreciated.
very insightful analysis, you keep it objective and try to understand everyone's perspective. I also think it's dope you asked the judges why they voted for who and pass us the info through an online video, that's valuable. Thanks!
I really enjoyed these two videos. Thanks to Stance and Dyzee for making them!
I think Bruce's character, creativity, and unorthodox approach are simultaneously his greatest strengths and weaknesses. I really enjoy unorthodox approaches to bboying as long as they are incorporated well with the foundations of the dance, and I feel that Bruce does this very well. I also enjoy comedy in bboying (e.g. Flexum), so again Bruce's dancing has another aspect I enjoy.
Unfortunately for Bruce, unorthodox moves and comedy/character are polarizing and there are bound to be people that really turned off by those things, which I think limits his ability to easily become a champion. But what I found really inspiring is that despite these potential limiting factors, he still made it all the way to the finals! And even in the finals, he did not compromise his own style and flavor to please the judges to increase his chance of winning. He stayed true to himself all the way, which I think is a great lesson to learn from bboying.
You got it right on the money, which means Bruce is the true winner.
How to find an objective centre for these approaches? That's a dilema. Amazing analysis! Peace
for sure bruce take it.
oh extraordinary love completely Stance, thank you very much for adding subtitles in Spanish, for the community of Central and South America, most do not have the opportunity to speak English, it will be a great support knowledge to the Hispanic community, I hope therefore continue to maintain a great job communicating knowledge, I hope so always follow subtitling, I'll share with my people. Regards.
+Eliot Mendez De nada, che! :D Ya subtitulé el de Menno vs Pocket también, pero falta que Daniel los suba :)
Grandioso ya lo he compartido, gracias miles de gracias, si espero verlo pronto y mucho mas, de todo el material que STANCE vaya subiendo, trabajas para Stance? si espero que lo suban pronto. ya lo comparti con quien pude, pas y respeto desde Mexico.
Respect. Dyzee always shedding light. Our system for the win my ninja.
thank you for your insight, dyzee... however, don't forget that they don't judge a battle as an individual, but have to bearin mind the repeats through each battle to reachthe final. sorryto be a pain but had to find something to complain about. those2 cats were amazingthe entire event,but i prefered bruce personally. peace.
Yeah, but who do YOU think took this ?
Once again, thank you so much! This video really helped! I believe Dyzee saw judging like this a long time ago, which was why he created the judging system for R16.
I'm curious though. And hopefully someone will be able to answer this for me. Dyzee spoke a lot about victor's response, saying that when Victor does respond, he can be viewed as battling more than Bruce. But, since Victor is always going after Bruce's rounds, Bruce would only be able to lose or tie the battling area?
That's not necessarily true. If the first person to start the battle has a strong entrance and uses burns in their first round , they can hold a stronger battle presence.
Thanks!
Great videos, with a real objective analysis. Bboying isn't like running the 100 flat meters, where we always can know 4 sure who crosses the line first. Bboying is more about personal opinions, taste, perspectives etc. so I'll never be a real consent. Anyway dope videos and props 2 Dyzee and Stance
I agree, Dyzee and the both videos are dope and so good explained, thanks for that!
Wow, you are reading my thoughts Dyzee, I have been thinking to message you regarding similar video analysis but here is you have already made it. Thank you very much for your time and efforts spending analyzing red bull BC one videos. That's very relevant and very interesting to watch please keep on doing this I suggest you to comments with two more experts. Yes everyone has their own perspective like saying goes that everyone has its own truth that's why it would nice if you do not mind in your video comments be more explicit I mean the quantity of same freezes, similarity of moves, the level of confidence, dance and all details needs to be mentioned. If we just rely on judges' bboying background and their perspective this problem will never be solved. I believe if you could manage to organize video debates judges will feel much responsible while judging . There is another issue that members of all star crew should not judge red bull BC one world finals because of conflict of interests
Thank you stance and Dyzee!
Bruce winner, no Victor, Victor is boring. Hoooooo...
Its good to know why bboys are turned into machines thanks for the eye opener :) ...im 90s bboy so for me character is more important than doing the moves everyone can do just to prove that you can work hard[respect for both bboys]its 20I5 i understand....
This is interesting! I have wondered about judging battles and wonder if judges are just as attentive to the same type of detail as this announcer. However, it sounds like judging is evolving as it should because judges not only help which bboys/Bgirls get recognition, but also help in the overall direction and evolution of BBoying
You killed me with the Ace Ventura comment XD
Thanks for sharing your in-depth wisdom master Dyzee but I'm still undecided about the outcome... very hard battle to judge... I would still vote a tie if it would have been my call to make. It's incredibly tough to decide what aspect wheighs more and I always rewatch battles to get both round to round and whole battle perspectives (which judges can't do so easy since they only get to see the battle once without repeats, stops and slomos) and still end up more confused sometimes on who really deserved to win than I was before. I think both could have been cleaner on some of their rounds and could have tried to make sets a bit more solid and coherent but it's a final and they both did tremendous battles to get there... so I think it's a problem of how events are organized... it's true a tournament should be about stamina too but I think finalists deserve a longer brake before the final battle. All in all I think Vic deserves the title for the enormous progress as a Bboy in a very short time (he has a great master teaching him tho) and for his overall performance in the event but then again it's not about that either.
Much love and respect!
Very interesting analysis! How do you think each judge viewed Victor's repeated shapes/concepts? For instance, he did different freezes each round, but the shape was the same, so they looked very similar. How might a judge view a technically different move that looks similar to ones performed previously?
Dyzee, it would be great if you could share your opinion on repeating. I understand that to get to the final you need to make 9 rounds + 5 rounds in the final, and it is very difficult to make those rounds equally great with difficult and original moves. What Victor did, he repeated 3 of his rounds that he did in previous battles, Bruce did not repeat any, excluding 90s. So it seems like cheating, you "learn" some moves and win the competition repeating the same stuff. How to judge this situation?
Judges are not even Important in Red Bull BC One That's because the Winner is already Pre-Determind it's why Red Bull has it's own Inner Circle and doesn't let anyone join. Victor has been a Hype this Year hence why he won as he had the Momentum the Bboy scene in the US Love him and before Monster snatches him up Red Bull wanted him to win the Big Event. Bruce Almighty caught quite lot of people off guard especially that set against Alkolil with the Red Bull Can. at the end of the Day it's Business and thats what Red Bull is good for.
>_> lol okay
+F145h1 it must be alien
it's a pity that this is a good analysis but you get 2 fucktards' reply
I get the feel that bruce lost cause he went first and had a funny style... which aren't bad things yet it seemed, from dyzee's perspective on the judges, that the judges saw them as unfavorable
Great analysis! Well said and thought out.
Que bien que estén traducido x fin
Thanks!!
now I know that in order to win you have to go second... Because obviously judges will look at the response more than what you will deliver..
you said: the battle between victor victorious and bruce almighty and it's vicious victor
yeah there has to be a good feedback system
Bruce all the way son
Thanks for the breakdown dyzee!
Very good Analysis... now I could understand better the judges decicion... still for me Bruce won this battle, but congrats to Vicious, he's a great bboy!!
isn't the problem with judging round for round as dyzee did here as an example (altho the judges may not have done that) that bruce didn't have anything to respond to by going in first while victor did?
+AreYouRazed
I think that's a good point and one of the biggest reasons why bboys tend to not want to go first in a battle, resulting in those really annoying waiting games at the start of a battle. So maybe we should start looking at the battle as a whole.
+AreYouRazed Sorry stance, posted my comment very often by accident, removed them now
Bruce should've won
this a pretty educational video for those who is just a fan of bboying and just loves watching the art form.
what about the weight from top 16,8, & 4?
such a cool video idea!! gj!
Hello I am the mother of SHEMBURA ..... I also want to give my opinion ... (lol)
I think if you are in the final five rounds and attempts to answer every battle, should have been as follows: Example
Bruce vs Victor, following:
Bruce vs Victor, following:
Victor vs Bruce, following:
Victor vs Bruce, and finally
throw the bottle to know who will start the final round.
Victor vs Bruce or Bruce vs Victor. This would be for a more equal battle ....
Very interesting and diplomatic perspective! Dyzee's knowledge of the artform is phenomenal; I was blown away by how technically he was able to break down each set.
My guess before RedBull BCOne was started, I guess Victor win but after saw Bruce Almighty perform his dope unique style then I wish final match could be Lil Zoo vs Bruce Almighty. Just a few thought, not judging. Peace!
I still think bruce had it at least 3/5 to 4/5
But then again, i prefer Cleannes > originality > everything else, which he had plenty of, while Viktor was more of the same, as usual.
I hate when judges give points to "classic" over "original" simply because it's classic. I mean, wtf? They don't wanna evolve or progress?
next time dont just read. memorize or print key points in a paper and develop on them on the fly. it will sound more natural and entertaining. keep up
+Collins Ongaya collins, im just saying something that could help on his comentator charisma and quality. i dont remember making any critic to the content of the video.
+Collins Ongaya thats ok :)
DOPE AND THOROUGH ANALYSIS ON POINT
please make a battle analysis of el niño vs killa kolya
pretty good analysis.... i think Bruce was a little more creative but he was too cute, broke his rhythm too fast & was not organized. Victor clearly had the power moves, had a longer sequence with some creative... also he has some rebuttals to Bruce's moves. And this over all was the difference. I agree Victor took pretty clearly. Bruce did the "body floor roll over" too much it shows that he just filtering his routine before he does anything.. not good.
obviamente fue en el 2.015, pero para mi se lo merecia bruce por la originalidad que tuvo en cada batalla con algo novedoso. Por ejemplo el movimiento con la bebida en lata. Wow .. bruce se merecia ser champion.
Bruce almighty w.
Dancing and bboy judging system are obscured. This is not like a scoring game competition where numbers are included. This is just base on personal preference on the battle from the view of the judges. Ex: France judges are likely to vote for bboys that are close to them just like politics.
Kazuki Rok vs Pocket. I really need understanding with exactly how Pocket took it.
Creativity died in bboying when Bruce lost so sad. As well as you can win BC One by throwing the same freeze over and over! Awesome!! :D definitely will not watch it live anymore its not worth it anymore. This year sucks Donkey Dong
+Carlo Castillo Nothing wrong with doing the same freeze over and over again lol it's just his way of using "baby freeze" to end his round and Victor also had creativity too. You never see anyone go straight into power like he did and how he did his invert 90 to his shoulder freeze. Plus Victor looked like he was more in battle mode and you can tell that he wanted to win more than Bruce Almighty.
+Kaï MSQ aye hell yeah haha
did you guys really enjoy that repetitive action from victor? yeah he pulled out some moves alright, but nothing impressive to end them. those freezes of his were sloppy.
He added different variations lol and wtf he was still hitting them..
he was hitting them poorly. all I saw were halos and flares in 5 rounds. it's like watching an instructional video at some parts. Insipid
Good job Dyzee, props
Please, make the analysis of battle EL NINO VS KILLA KOLYA
Many people think that decision was unfair.
Ahh.....I forgot that their were different judges. Very well explained Dyzee. Now please battle me :)
Victor's 3rd round had nothing in it and he clearly crashed his in his last round. Idk what is wrong with Bruce having an unorthodox style of breaking, all big name bboys are always calling for people to be more unique and original, and when someone gives that to you they lose? Idk what kind fuckshit these judges were on during this competition, and quite frankly I don't care they have more experience and have been breaking longer. These guys are destroying objective neutrality. There is NO reason for Victor to have won this battle.
Killa Kolya vs El nino please, biggest rob of the night..
Victor was short of rounds, proof, is that he repeated the halo to freez compo and his 1990 more than once. Bruce was clean and original and he did not repeat his moves, sorry but for me Bruce takes it.
Do more of these analysis...like 😊Issei v Hong 10
Dyzee the almighty bboy guru!!! 😎👍🏽
???? Menno vs Blonde still never analyzed even tho you guys said you would!???
Dyzee read the text...but the explanation can be acceptable...Bruce is something different...mixing bboy with character...
all i know is all of those judges are better than anyone here in the comment section. now the riddle in Kazuki Rok vs Pocket
Dyzee for judge
gracias por la traduccion
all statement really make sense but for still bruce got this battle...respect to victor this battle is the dopest battle if you break it down detail by detail...
Dyzee judge the best Bruce almight wins
focus always votes for victor
Victor clearly takes it 🔥
I need whatever you're smoking... seems strong
Great video! I'm happy someone explained it to people
Victor Gano obvio.
can you do lil zoo vs victor
blond vs menno please
hey dyzeee u filipino ?
+Ali TheBaba
Pretty sure he is.
That shoulder freez look like it hart his arm shock to like 😠errr get some vic don’t make fun of my stinky layg
the only reason I think bruce almighty lost he didnt much speed. but had good ideas, viva portugal
to say that what judges weigh what aspects of bboying more just proven the judging syatem is so messed up. hence youtube debate is definitely valid as there is no standard what so ever.
+sasaugebun
You're pretty much right, but that's the issue with art (dancing, music, painting etc.). I don't think there will ever be a universally accepted way to judge art. We can only make efforts to be as objective as humanly possible, which is far from "perfect" in terms of measuring two dancers and who is "better."
This only becomes a problem with large things are stake, like money and championship titles. So I think on large stages like this, where large sums of money or prestigious titles are at stake, I do think it's more fair for the competitors if there was a more clearly defined judging system. Because if it's obvious to everyone what the judging system is, even if it's not a perfect system, it can't be said that the competitors didn't know what they were in for.
+sasaugebun nah, that's just how dance competitions are. there are a collection or variety of standards; you have a misunderstanding that there is no existence of a standard, which is wrong. just different cultures embrace some values over others, but that doesn't mean values can't be shared between a diversity.
+Chris Nguyen it's also like comparing art, movies and cuisine. what's the best movie of the year? there really isn't one that caters to everyone. However, critics can point out the best features on certain grade qualities and round up the overall presentation. Likewise, each dancer has unique traits, but who excels in every category? Same thing can be applied to cars, women, education, place of living, etc. Gotta look at the big picture
+Chris Nguyen bro, dyzee said it himself there is no standard on the first vid. guess he misunderstands it too then.
Can you do victor VS lil zoo
He can not
Because Lil Zou won without analysis
Bruce's whole body roll over is NOTHING.!!! it lacks power, creativity & slow.
COPY OF THE .... ROLAND ROXRIDE CRUMB RONNIE REVELD MOY AND MORE
Dyzee, wtf?
VICTOR!
VICTOR NO TIENE ORIGINALIDAD .....ALL MOVES TO COPY ,,,,,ALL BBOYS USA ,,,,, BRUCE IS ORIGINAL
very very nice analysis
bruce wing
Dopee videooo