I too, am an older adult learner. But, I don't have narrow, specific goals, so I'm not so worried that my time will run out before I achieve them. I'm having fun, right now, and I just want to play. I want to play WITH other people. I want to play FOR other people. At this point in my life, mostly friends and family. But, I want to get better, so that I can play more for family and friends, and perhaps even strangers. I love being IN music. It is a profoundly important part of my life. I even, quietly, call myself a musician. Yup. There is a lot to learn. And, I'm working at it. I will continue working at it for as long as I'm playing. But, most of the instructional part of my learning comes from participating in instructional bands and taking private lessons. I flourish in the immediacy of these scenes, and the interactivity. I'm always asking questions or making comments, and I like being able to talk to my instructor. It's not that I don't watch instructional videos. I do. But, I almost always want to start talking to the instructor, ask questions and interact with them. Am I in the minority of older, adult learners? I don't know. Does this help you as an instructor? I hope so.
Christos (who is an old friend, I referenced him in the video) has the right attitude about learning music as an adult: He likes doing it, and knows the better the musician he becomes the more he enjoys playing music. That's incentive to keep practicing and learning without worrying about an end goal. He's proud of what he's accomplished and rightly so. He is fortunate to live where there are opportunities for adult amateurs to play together in a structured environment, and study with a teacher (who happens to be one of my ex-students). Compared to these situations, a video or a book is second best at best. Not without merit, but no substitute for actually doing it. For the record (and a shameless plug), for anyone who watches my videos and wishes they could interact on a one-to-one basis, that is possible, and I direct you to chasesanborn.com. :)
I've been at it for 50+ years and one thing that I currently miss (having recently moved) is a community of other music-minded folks who like to discuss it ("how did you do that") with the knowledge that I can possibly help them as well. I can't believe that is a minority thought. I can learn something from anyone interested in music, regardless of their credentials or playing status. Postscript: when I was young, there was a joke: "how do you make a guitarist shut up?". The answer was, "put sheet music in front of him". That created a bad habit for me of playing with/reading music. This goes with the theory/ear training bit - I love playing the heads, but improvising and sensing it is even better.
I encourage the sharing of ideas and questions here, so thanks for your comment. You might also like to check out Jazzwire, an online community of adult amateur and semi-pro jazz musicians.
It speaks to how insanely young these cats are starting their musical journeys these days, that at the age of 26 I clicked on this video feeling like the title very much applied to me. I have had an extremely non-linear path so far on my musical journey including the painful acceptance that I am less and less likely to have a career in music. I recently decided that indeed my career will not be music but instead wildland firefighting. For so long I was afraid to "give up" on music. However now a year into my new career I have discovered that I am and always will be a musician. Simply because I will never stop playing and practicing. I ironically have way more time to practice now and the idea that I can continue to progress musically for the rest of my life, no matter what my job is, fills me with great joy. I firmly believe now that being a musician (especially a jazzer) is a way of approaching life and your time on this earth with creativity and an open mind, rather than a title to be bestowed upon you only if your income relies on making music.
Glad you chose a less dangerous career! :) Equally hilarious that someone at age 26 considers themself to be late in life, but your point is taken. A recent video from Patrick Bartley speaks to the pressures faced by those in their late teens who are faced with people their own age or younger killing it on social media. I've often said you choose music as a career only if you cannot imagine doing anything else. As you rightly point out, playing music can always be a part of your life. It may be difficult to devote the same amount of time to it when pursuing another career (seemingly not for you at this point), however monetizing your musical talents usually takes a lot of time away from the creative side. When your sustenance comes from elsewhere, you are free to focus on the music you want to play, rather than music that pays you to play, and you are less likely to connect artistic success to financial success. Thanks for the comment and don't get burned!
Love it all, as always, so much objective information, the context, meaning and perspective “that even hurts”. I had start late in Academic music, learning classic, but always with a eye on jazz. Only learned how to do it (Jazz) with 35 years age. In Portugal there was nothing, we always started late in many areas, but fortunately NET open doors and allowed to move on. We now have serious classical and jazz training, real education. Because of the “limited classic education” never understood the “decorate themes” and the “aural learning”, even in inicial approach of Jazz Education. I’ve study, learning the process, the real language… years passed and luckily now I get it, the real know how, the meaning of How & Why in all this gaps. Some was my own lacks and other was about the pedagogy systems. YOU are a awesome Teacher !!! Thanks 👏
Im a retired journalist and academic and now I'm studying jazz saxophone on my own because I know how to learn. I work out of only one book daily: The Art of Art Farmer, a trumpet book. Each day I transpose the exercises to two keys: Monday is A (A/Ab) through to Sunday (G/Gb). I learn tunes by studying the chart if I have it but I play it over again and again trying to find out what it is I have to say without learning other player's licks. I'm having a great time in the process.
Great insight. As an old learner I'm constantly fighting the frustration of " I wish had started this 50 yrs ago ". That doesn't mean that all hope is lost . Since I can't go back in time I've focused my efforts on the future . All i need to do is live to 120 , thereby recovering the lost 50 years ! I'm determined to live that long , or die trying. I think the key is to focus on the improvements you've made rather than on the goals missed , and then make some music with what you have. To drone along practicing just technical or theoretical exercises kind of misses the main point of why we are involved. It is to make music. I also think that getting out and playing with others is one of the best learning experiences as it will present new challenges, thereby focusing our efforts in new and practical directions. As an example , I've been practicing in a vacuum for a long time thinking i wasn't good enough to play with others. I took a leap and got together with some players and found out that i was right , i really sucked. But.......i was good enough to contribute something. It also revealed some weaknesses that i need to work on , and I'm now focusing on those areas with a practical application in view. And yes, i still get together with those players in spite of my shortcomings. And I'm starting to have some fun. A question on equipment. I notice your hat doesn't conform to the English sports cap that sax players prefer. Is your cap more of a brass players thing ???
You've hit on something that we all have to face: we will never be 'good enough'. Nor do we want to be, because at that point learning ends. As others have pointed out, we may not be able to reclaim the past, but we'll never be younger than we are now. Regarding your question: Follically challenged as I am, I have many hats. That particular one is a favorite as it was custom made by a Toronto-based husband and wife team of hatmakers who have regrettably (from my perspective) retired.
Late Boomer here...inspiring lecture. Picked up piano and guitar at 40 and learned that learning never stops...glad to be here in this universe making music.
Great video. Intermediate guitar player here. I retired 3 years ago and have made a dedicated effort to learn guitar with more focus on music theory and ear training, mainly self study and TH-cam. I’m a lot better now than any point previously. I real enjoy jazz chords and lines, but I’m naturally drawn more to blues and rock. However, the point I wanted to make is that I think I actually “learn more” about music in general when learning jazz. Wondering if others feel that way too. Thanks and now subscribed!
Jazz incorporates advanced concepts of melody, harmony and rhythm which are the building blocks of all music. In my decades teaching university jazz students, I saw many go through the program with no intention to be 'jazz musicians', but knowing the training would be an asset in other musical idioms. Thanks for subscribing!
Absolutely incredible video! A lot of these concepts I seem to have already internalized and it was great to hear them from a long time player like yourself Chase. Thank you.
You HAVE to set (sometimes unrealistic) goals and try to adhere to timelines when you are older! You simply do not have enough time. This is exactly the problem when trying to learn jazz as an adult - it is impossible to set strict deadlines. What makes it even more difficult is that there are as many methods of teaching jazz as jazz teachers
I suppose jazz is no different than anything else when it comes to different teaching methods, coupled with different learning styles. Different strokes… Setting goals is admirable-it’s good to have something to strive for regardless of age. One could argue that if you shoot for the moon perhaps you’ll reach the mountaintop. That’s fine unless you consider reaching the mountaintop to be failure, while reaching the moon is impossible. If we start the pursuit feeling we don’t have enough time, the pressure may cause us to rush through something when a more relaxed approach may yield greater satisfaction and better results. If you set out to drive across the country in as short a time as possible, that’s a goal, and you might be satisfied if you achieve it. But it’s a safe bet the drive will be less enjoyable than taking the time to savor the sights along the way. (Unless driving is the thing you most like to do.)
This is so good, started back really playing about 5 years ago, often seems like I'm not getting anywhere and I am now retired from my day job so I can practice everyday. But when I look back at where I was five years ago and where I am now it's kinda mind blowing.
It can be hard to see progress in the present, because we are constantly discovering how much more there is to learn--it's a process without end. Finding benchmarks, as you have, help us continue to push on rather than give up. For some that's a thin edge.
Thank you for laying out these thoughts which obviously come from your thorough understanding of the subject as well as they are deeply rooted in your love for music. I will pass this on to my students and recommend your channel.
I'm an adult learner on the ukulele! I think jazz harmony in particular sounds so cool and beautiful on the humble uke, but I like to solo too. This was an inspiring reminder to enjoy the process. I'm always trying to be 3 steps ahead of where I'm at, but if I just practice each new idea slowly and thoroughly...I see the effects. I'm already a different musician now than I was a year ago, when I first started to take playing jazz seriously...
"You're likely going to your grave dissatisfied." If my years playing music have taught me one truth, it's that. I've never seen anyone on YT who goes so far as to say it. Well done.
Brilliant video, Chase! It seems like there are a few improv systems that are designed to create a positive feedback loop quickly, but these generally seem designed for students that want to start on the journey of learning how the sausage is made, perhaps students going to music school. Do you think it would be possible to develop an improv system just purely based on using your ear without any sort of nuclear info blast that would be effective? And then, if it was, do you think this could also be effective for students that want to start on a more complete journey by sort of giving them an initial lay of the land? Sort of a low resolution picture of a map? I think one concern teachers have is if they feel like they are dumbing stuff down they might sort of implant false impressions that have to be unlearned, but my thinking is no matter how precise and methodical one is with the nuclear info blast, most people are probably going to need gaps of confusion filled in anyway? If that's the case, maybe a completely aural approach is not only a better starting place for certain people (e.g. adults not interested in starting on the journey where they learn how the sausage is made), but it also doesn't really conflict with other systems in creating fake news? It would just be incomplete news, at worst?
I have a good friend who had an illustrious career as a jazz educator. In a recent conversation he mentioned that he started on although never completed an improvisation book titled 'Ears First'. I do feel that an aural approach is best in the beginning; if you want to inspire someone to learn how to cook, best to start off by giving them a taste. (The role of the teacher is not to teach, but to stimulate a desire to learn.) My use of the word 'beginning' in this context does not refer to only the start of the learning process, but every step along the way, i.e., learn to recognize the sound of something before you worry about what it is called, let alone the inner workings. I have a few videos coming up that seem in line with what you are describing. Stay tuned, and thanks for your comment!
There are many ways to analogize jazz improvisation to spoken language. The beautiful thing is that people continue to find artful ways to use words, just as they do notes.
The wisest person I know (a Catholic priest)-a professor, author of books, and much more-says “I don’t have goals”. There’s a lot to be said for this. It’s not so much the “it’s not the destination, it’s the journey” cliché as knowing it’s all completely unpredictable. As you said we don’t know anything about where we’ll be in a year. I want to be a better trumpet player, a better human being, and I work towards these things. But having Big Goals, like I want to play like Maynard, or Freddie, or Doc-or be able to carve up changes like Clifford-well, I’d rather have fun with my horn, today. Time to plug in the good old Yamaha Silent Brass and see how I sound!
I think having goals may not be the problem as much as setting deadlines. And being realistic--if the goal is to play like Maynard, Freddie, Doc or Clifford, the vast majority of us may as well give up. If the goal is to express our humanity through music, I'd say that's achievable by all who strive for it.
@@chasesanborn I think this may be even more of a problem with sports-like the guys who shoot a 90 in golf and are miserable. The idea is to be the best version of yourself, not Arnold Palmer. Not to be excessively goal-oriented. I’d still like to play like Don Ellis or Chet, but I’m also happy to be 65 years old and still able to play this ridiculously difficult instrument with a certain amount of facility.
Excellent analogy. We can always point to people who we pale in comparison to. If we can focus not on what we can do but how to reflect our unique identity, we stand a chance.
Chase, first, as the guy taking sax lessons from the retired band director, it was surreal to be quoted in this video…! lol ( if that was actually me, but still interesting either way) Totally agree with your comments on setting goals that are reasonable and attainable, and that also will also not depress me…! The best goal I have set is to be just a little bit better today than I was yesterday, whether on sax (the one I’m just learning), trombone (I’ve played for almost 50 years), or trying to improve my improv skills. Also, I have noticed that my sax teacher (also a killer trombonist) is having as much fun as I am in our lessons. We often run over our time slot because we are both engaged and learning. I do hold out hope that I may get to go back to school after I retire to work on music. In the meantime, lessons, practice, and the odd gig here and there continue to fulfill. Thanks for these videos: you educate and encourage!
Leave a comment on this channel and you might get your minutes of fame! :) On a brass instrument, one cannot always hope to be better tomorrow--you need a longer frame of reference. Thanks for adding your voice and sparking commentary!
2:53 This is disingenuous. You can play jazz. It is your job. if you could not reliably play melodic lines over chord progressions you'd be doing something else or starve. Some people cannot play melodic lines reliably or consistently at all. What is the purpose of this everybody struggles rhetoric? Also something feels contradictory here. Jazz musicians generally claim playing with other people is the point of jazz. As an adult you aren't going to be playing with other adults if you aren't good. This means determining your potential is an unavoidable stress of learning jazz as an adult you put the onus on the adult learner when that's just the way it is. You are coming from a position of privilege i don't know your background but i am guessing your parents where able to afford you the resources required to maintain a jazz education long before adulthood.
I"m struggling to understand the points you are trying to make and where the recriminations are coming from. You are correct that I was fortunate to have parents that saved for my undergrad education, and I was able to do the same for my kids with the money I earned as a musician. I talk about that in this video: th-cam.com/video/d9VWRecCmc4/w-d-xo.html That is certainly an advantage, but lest you think it substituted for years of struggle and hard work to build a career as a musician, let me disavow you of that notion. If you find my attempts to share what I have learned with others who may be interested to be disingenuous, this is not the channel for you. BTW, there are many adult amateurs who play together in bands that are not at professional level. Not everyone lives where those opportunities exist, but they do exist.
@@chasesanborn i just feel like in your acknowledgment of the thoughts off your students you kinda make it seem like they are wrong for thinking this or that when I think its more so that these are unavoidable thoughts. Like you kinda have to strive because theres always something better to do than sucking at jazz forever. I would say recrimination is a misnomer. Im not saying this is a useless video or your a bad person.
I too, am an older adult learner. But, I don't have narrow, specific goals, so I'm not so worried that my time will run out before I achieve them. I'm having fun, right now, and I just want to play. I want to play WITH other people. I want to play FOR other people. At this point in my life, mostly friends and family. But, I want to get better, so that I can play more for family and friends, and perhaps even strangers. I love being IN music. It is a profoundly important part of my life. I even, quietly, call myself a musician. Yup. There is a lot to learn. And, I'm working at it. I will continue working at it for as long as I'm playing. But, most of the instructional part of my learning comes from participating in instructional bands and taking private lessons. I flourish in the immediacy of these scenes, and the interactivity. I'm always asking questions or making comments, and I like being able to talk to my instructor. It's not that I don't watch instructional videos. I do. But, I almost always want to start talking to the instructor, ask questions and interact with them. Am I in the minority of older, adult learners? I don't know. Does this help you as an instructor? I hope so.
Christos (who is an old friend, I referenced him in the video) has the right attitude about learning music as an adult: He likes doing it, and knows the better the musician he becomes the more he enjoys playing music. That's incentive to keep practicing and learning without worrying about an end goal. He's proud of what he's accomplished and rightly so.
He is fortunate to live where there are opportunities for adult amateurs to play together in a structured environment, and study with a teacher (who happens to be one of my ex-students). Compared to these situations, a video or a book is second best at best. Not without merit, but no substitute for actually doing it.
For the record (and a shameless plug), for anyone who watches my videos and wishes they could interact on a one-to-one basis, that is possible, and I direct you to chasesanborn.com. :)
I've been at it for 50+ years and one thing that I currently miss (having recently moved) is a community of other music-minded folks who like to discuss it ("how did you do that") with the knowledge that I can possibly help them as well. I can't believe that is a minority thought. I can learn something from anyone interested in music, regardless of their credentials or playing status.
Postscript: when I was young, there was a joke: "how do you make a guitarist shut up?". The answer was, "put sheet music in front of him". That created a bad habit for me of playing with/reading music. This goes with the theory/ear training bit - I love playing the heads, but improvising and sensing it is even better.
I encourage the sharing of ideas and questions here, so thanks for your comment. You might also like to check out Jazzwire, an online community of adult amateur and semi-pro jazz musicians.
It speaks to how insanely young these cats are starting their musical journeys these days, that at the age of 26 I clicked on this video feeling like the title very much applied to me. I have had an extremely non-linear path so far on my musical journey including the painful acceptance that I am less and less likely to have a career in music. I recently decided that indeed my career will not be music but instead wildland firefighting. For so long I was afraid to "give up" on music. However now a year into my new career I have discovered that I am and always will be a musician. Simply because I will never stop playing and practicing. I ironically have way more time to practice now and the idea that I can continue to progress musically for the rest of my life, no matter what my job is, fills me with great joy. I firmly believe now that being a musician (especially a jazzer) is a way of approaching life and your time on this earth with creativity and an open mind, rather than a title to be bestowed upon you only if your income relies on making music.
You can leave the arts but they will never leave you.
Glad you chose a less dangerous career! :) Equally hilarious that someone at age 26 considers themself to be late in life, but your point is taken. A recent video from Patrick Bartley speaks to the pressures faced by those in their late teens who are faced with people their own age or younger killing it on social media.
I've often said you choose music as a career only if you cannot imagine doing anything else. As you rightly point out, playing music can always be a part of your life. It may be difficult to devote the same amount of time to it when pursuing another career (seemingly not for you at this point), however monetizing your musical talents usually takes a lot of time away from the creative side. When your sustenance comes from elsewhere, you are free to focus on the music you want to play, rather than music that pays you to play, and you are less likely to connect artistic success to financial success.
Thanks for the comment and don't get burned!
🤩
Love it all, as always, so much objective information, the context, meaning and perspective “that even hurts”.
I had start late in Academic music, learning classic, but always with a eye on jazz. Only learned how to do it (Jazz) with 35 years age. In Portugal there was nothing, we always started late in many areas, but fortunately NET open doors and allowed to move on. We now have serious classical and jazz training, real education. Because of the “limited classic education” never understood the “decorate themes” and the “aural learning”, even in inicial approach of Jazz Education. I’ve study, learning the process, the real language… years passed and luckily now I get it, the real know how, the meaning of How & Why in all this gaps. Some was my own lacks and other was about the pedagogy systems. YOU are a awesome Teacher !!! Thanks 👏
Thanks for sharing your experience and your kind words!
I am in awe of the way you articulated and connected all these ideas - much like a great solo.
That's a great analogy, thank you! I appreciate everyone who takes the time to comment and broaden the conversation beyond just my own perspective.
Im a retired journalist and academic and now I'm studying jazz saxophone on my own because I know how to learn. I work out of only one book daily: The Art of Art Farmer, a trumpet book. Each day I transpose the exercises to two keys: Monday is A (A/Ab) through to Sunday (G/Gb). I learn tunes by studying the chart if I have it but I play it over again and again trying to find out what it is I have to say without learning other player's licks. I'm having a great time in the process.
Great insight. As an old learner I'm constantly fighting the frustration of " I wish had started this 50 yrs ago ".
That doesn't mean that all hope is lost .
Since I can't go back in time I've focused my efforts on the future . All i need to do is live to 120 , thereby recovering the lost 50 years ! I'm determined to live that long , or die trying.
I think the key is to focus on the improvements you've made rather than on the goals missed , and then make some music with what you have. To drone along practicing just technical or theoretical exercises kind of misses the main point of why we are involved. It is to make music. I also think that getting out and playing with others is one of the best learning experiences as it will present new challenges, thereby focusing our efforts in new and practical directions.
As an example , I've been practicing in a vacuum for a long time thinking i wasn't good enough to play with others. I took a leap and got together with some players and found out that i was right , i really sucked. But.......i was good enough to contribute something. It also revealed some weaknesses that i need to work on , and I'm now focusing on those areas with a practical application in view. And yes, i still get together with those players in spite of my shortcomings. And I'm starting to have some fun.
A question on equipment.
I notice your hat doesn't conform to the English sports cap that sax players prefer. Is your cap more of a brass players thing ???
You've hit on something that we all have to face: we will never be 'good enough'. Nor do we want to be, because at that point learning ends. As others have pointed out, we may not be able to reclaim the past, but we'll never be younger than we are now.
Regarding your question: Follically challenged as I am, I have many hats. That particular one is a favorite as it was custom made by a Toronto-based husband and wife team of hatmakers who have regrettably (from my perspective) retired.
Late Boomer here...inspiring lecture. Picked up piano and guitar at 40 and learned that learning never stops...glad to be here in this universe making music.
I'm with you on that. Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. Intermediate guitar player here. I retired 3 years ago and have made a dedicated effort to learn guitar with more focus on music theory and ear training, mainly self study and TH-cam. I’m a lot better now than any point previously. I real enjoy jazz chords and lines, but I’m naturally drawn more to blues and rock. However, the point I wanted to make is that I think I actually “learn more” about music in general when learning jazz. Wondering if others feel that way too. Thanks and now subscribed!
Jazz incorporates advanced concepts of melody, harmony and rhythm which are the building blocks of all music. In my decades teaching university jazz students, I saw many go through the program with no intention to be 'jazz musicians', but knowing the training would be an asset in other musical idioms. Thanks for subscribing!
Absolutely incredible video! A lot of these concepts I seem to have already internalized and it was great to hear them from a long time player like yourself Chase. Thank you.
Thanks for saying so!
You HAVE to set (sometimes unrealistic) goals and try to adhere to timelines when you are older! You simply do not have enough time.
This is exactly the problem when trying to learn jazz as an adult - it is impossible to set strict deadlines. What makes it even more difficult is that there are as many methods of teaching jazz as jazz teachers
I suppose jazz is no different than anything else when it comes to different teaching methods, coupled with different learning styles. Different strokes…
Setting goals is admirable-it’s good to have something to strive for regardless of age. One could argue that if you shoot for the moon perhaps you’ll reach the mountaintop. That’s fine unless you consider reaching the mountaintop to be failure, while reaching the moon is impossible.
If we start the pursuit feeling we don’t have enough time, the pressure may cause us to rush through something when a more relaxed approach may yield greater satisfaction and better results.
If you set out to drive across the country in as short a time as possible, that’s a goal, and you might be satisfied if you achieve it. But it’s a safe bet the drive will be less enjoyable than taking the time to savor the sights along the way. (Unless driving is the thing you most like to do.)
@ Thank you 😊
This is so good, started back really playing about 5 years ago, often seems like I'm not getting anywhere and I am now retired from my day job so I can practice everyday. But when I look back at where I was five years ago and where I am now it's kinda mind blowing.
It can be hard to see progress in the present, because we are constantly discovering how much more there is to learn--it's a process without end. Finding benchmarks, as you have, help us continue to push on rather than give up. For some that's a thin edge.
Thank you for laying out these thoughts which obviously come from your thorough understanding of the subject as well as they are deeply rooted in your love for music. I will pass this on to my students and recommend your channel.
Glad it comes across that way! Thanks for sharing and your kind words.
@@chasesanborn 🙏
I'm an adult learner on the ukulele! I think jazz harmony in particular sounds so cool and beautiful on the humble uke, but I like to solo too. This was an inspiring reminder to enjoy the process. I'm always trying to be 3 steps ahead of where I'm at, but if I just practice each new idea slowly and thoroughly...I see the effects. I'm already a different musician now than I was a year ago, when I first started to take playing jazz seriously...
"I'm always trying to be 3 steps ahead of where I'm at..." Love that!
"You're likely going to your grave dissatisfied." If my years playing music have taught me one truth, it's that. I've never seen anyone on YT who goes so far as to say it. Well done.
I've shocked a few students with that one.
outstanding
As is your comment!
At 62 year old I really enjoyed this video,
New subscriber, thanks!
Welcome aboard!
Thanks Chase.😊
You're welcome!
Great lesson! 🫰🏼🎶
Thanks for saying so!
Brilliant video, Chase!
It seems like there are a few improv systems that are designed to create a positive feedback loop quickly, but these generally seem designed for students that want to start on the journey of learning how the sausage is made, perhaps students going to music school.
Do you think it would be possible to develop an improv system just purely based on using your ear without any sort of nuclear info blast that would be effective? And then, if it was, do you think this could also be effective for students that want to start on a more complete journey by sort of giving them an initial lay of the land? Sort of a low resolution picture of a map?
I think one concern teachers have is if they feel like they are dumbing stuff down they might sort of implant false impressions that have to be unlearned, but my thinking is no matter how precise and methodical one is with the nuclear info blast, most people are probably going to need gaps of confusion filled in anyway?
If that's the case, maybe a completely aural approach is not only a better starting place for certain people (e.g. adults not interested in starting on the journey where they learn how the sausage is made), but it also doesn't really conflict with other systems in creating fake news? It would just be incomplete news, at worst?
I have a good friend who had an illustrious career as a jazz educator. In a recent conversation he mentioned that he started on although never completed an improvisation book titled 'Ears First'. I do feel that an aural approach is best in the beginning; if you want to inspire someone to learn how to cook, best to start off by giving them a taste. (The role of the teacher is not to teach, but to stimulate a desire to learn.) My use of the word 'beginning' in this context does not refer to only the start of the learning process, but every step along the way, i.e., learn to recognize the sound of something before you worry about what it is called, let alone the inner workings. I have a few videos coming up that seem in line with what you are describing. Stay tuned, and thanks for your comment!
I look at it as learning a language and have had to learn words then how to make sentences. Someday I may be able speak it somewhat fluently.
There are many ways to analogize jazz improvisation to spoken language. The beautiful thing is that people continue to find artful ways to use words, just as they do notes.
The oxymoronic quest of analyzing artistic expressions.
I don't know that analysis is without merit as a way of seeking one's own artistic expression, but it is not the be-all, end-all.
Although the line that separates 'art' from 'craft' is blurry...
I have some thoughts on that, too: th-cam.com/video/6O3rjXDnm28/w-d-xo.html
Don't worry old buddy we're all going to die, just enjoy your music.
How can I, knowing that?? :)
The wisest person I know (a Catholic priest)-a professor, author of books, and much more-says “I don’t have goals”.
There’s a lot to be said for this. It’s not so much the “it’s not the destination, it’s the journey” cliché as knowing it’s all completely unpredictable. As you said we don’t know anything about where we’ll be in a year. I want to be a better trumpet player, a better human being, and I work towards these things. But having Big Goals, like I want to play like Maynard, or Freddie, or Doc-or be able to carve up changes like Clifford-well, I’d rather have fun with my horn, today. Time to plug in the good old Yamaha Silent Brass and see how I sound!
I think having goals may not be the problem as much as setting deadlines. And being realistic--if the goal is to play like Maynard, Freddie, Doc or Clifford, the vast majority of us may as well give up. If the goal is to express our humanity through music, I'd say that's achievable by all who strive for it.
@@chasesanborn I think this may be even more of a problem with sports-like the guys who shoot a 90 in golf and are miserable. The idea is to be the best version of yourself, not Arnold Palmer. Not to be excessively goal-oriented.
I’d still like to play like Don Ellis or Chet, but I’m also happy to be 65 years old and still able to play this ridiculously difficult instrument with a certain amount of facility.
Excellent analogy. We can always point to people who we pale in comparison to. If we can focus not on what we can do but how to reflect our unique identity, we stand a chance.
Chase, first, as the guy taking sax lessons from the retired band director, it was surreal to be quoted in this video…! lol ( if that was actually me, but still interesting either way)
Totally agree with your comments on setting goals that are reasonable and attainable, and that also will also not depress me…! The best goal I have set is to be just a little bit better today than I was yesterday, whether on sax (the one I’m just learning), trombone (I’ve played for almost 50 years), or trying to improve my improv skills. Also, I have noticed that my sax teacher (also a killer trombonist) is having as much fun as I am in our lessons. We often run over our time slot because we are both engaged and learning.
I do hold out hope that I may get to go back to school after I retire to work on music. In the meantime, lessons, practice, and the odd gig here and there continue to fulfill. Thanks for these videos: you educate and encourage!
Leave a comment on this channel and you might get your minutes of fame! :) On a brass instrument, one cannot always hope to be better tomorrow--you need a longer frame of reference. Thanks for adding your voice and sparking commentary!
2:53 This is disingenuous. You can play jazz. It is your job. if you could not reliably play melodic lines over chord progressions you'd be doing something else or starve. Some people cannot play melodic lines reliably or consistently at all. What is the purpose of this everybody struggles rhetoric? Also something feels contradictory here. Jazz musicians generally claim playing with other people is the point of jazz. As an adult you aren't going to be playing with other adults if you aren't good. This means determining your potential is an unavoidable stress of learning jazz as an adult you put the onus on the adult learner when that's just the way it is. You are coming from a position of privilege i don't know your background but i am guessing your parents where able to afford you the resources required to maintain a jazz education long before adulthood.
I"m struggling to understand the points you are trying to make and where the recriminations are coming from. You are correct that I was fortunate to have parents that saved for my undergrad education, and I was able to do the same for my kids with the money I earned as a musician. I talk about that in this video: th-cam.com/video/d9VWRecCmc4/w-d-xo.html
That is certainly an advantage, but lest you think it substituted for years of struggle and hard work to build a career as a musician, let me disavow you of that notion. If you find my attempts to share what I have learned with others who may be interested to be disingenuous, this is not the channel for you.
BTW, there are many adult amateurs who play together in bands that are not at professional level. Not everyone lives where those opportunities exist, but they do exist.
@@chasesanborn i just feel like in your acknowledgment of the thoughts off your students you kinda make it seem like they are wrong for thinking this or that when I think its more so that these are unavoidable thoughts. Like you kinda have to strive because theres always something better to do than sucking at jazz forever. I would say recrimination is a misnomer. Im not saying this is a useless video or your a bad person.
the day that you think you know everything is the day that you're dead
We die knowing what we know. Up until then, it's up to us to find out as much as we can.