Another way to put it is that we think in order to improve our ability to hear. In the practice room we use both. In performance, the focus should ideally be almost entirely on what we hear, both internally and externally. It can be a challenge to get the thought process out of that equation.
This is the same process I used a million years ago when I was young to find what key a piece was in and what the chords might be. From there playing simple melodies helped my ear develop new ideas to work on.
This is how I initially learned to improvise. I was jamming with a group of guitar players, playing pop and rock tunes with no charts for the sax player. They had chords or tabs, but, if I wanted to solo, I had to just listen to them strum, and navigate my way around their chords. (I was not capable, at the time, of transposing to Eb, so I didn't even try.) I started by trial and error, figuring out a few safe notes, and gradually developed the solo from there over countless playings of the tune, with many, many clunkers (clams, I believe you hep cats call 'em) along the way. They were/are a very tolerant group.
That's it--find individual notes that seem to complement what we are hearing. The situation you describe is purely about listening, and I'd wager that your ear-based solos were much more musical than if you'd been given Eb changes. When you are staring at written music your attention is diverted such that you are less likely to hear 'clunkers' as opportunities for musical pathways unanticipated by both the performer and the listener. (Also, we all need a tolerant group around us.)
As a longtime player struggling to find the right approach(es) for me, as well as middle school band/ jazz teacher who tries to get all my jazzers to solo ...this is a refreshing and most welcome approach. Thanks for your efforts.
Glad to hear that. I know it's effective in a clinic setting where audience members choose the notes by show of hands. Wasn't sure how well it would translate on TH-cam.
Absolutely the best ear training lesson with the least amount of music theory. All you need to know is the chromatic scale on your instrument and the difference between a whole step and half step!
That you are able to identify the scale degrees means your ears are attuned to the harmonic context. As to which note 'most' people would choose, I'll pose the question in my pinned comment.
Another part to this is it makes the note choices a conversation with the other players. There is agreement and argument, supporting bits and changes of subject interacting with each other in an intimate way. One band I admire; you could hear the song falling apart as they played. But moment to moment, it was what made the song a perfect little crystalline structure that nearly fell apart until the next moment.
Jazz is very much a conversation as the players listen and react to each other, both in what they choose to play and how they choose to play it. With a backing track it is not a true conversation, but the player can still shape what they play based on what they hear. Anything that gets your ears involved moves you in the right direction as an improviser.
I've been rummaging through your channel and I dig it a lot. But I especially dig the quality of those backing tracks, where are they from? Greetings from Finland.
I always default to Aebersold whenever possible. Sometimes I edit a track to make it work for what I want to demonstrate. Glad you're enjoying the channel!
I love this topic! I’ve been wondering lately if it’s time to redesign traditional ear training courses? This seems like a perfect component to such a course. I also wonder if ear training should be kept separate from deep listening? What do you think?
When the process is broken down to the point of this video, where you only have two choices, everyone can do it, and that's the point of the exercise. As a realistic extension, you could play the track for a student and time them to see how fast they can work it out. That would have much more real world application than identifying random intervals. I would put deep listening in the category of ear training. Transcribing is deep listening taken a step further, and I think ultimately is the best ear training you can do. I've never been one to engage in or enjoy traditional ear training, but given that many people have better ears than me I'm not sure I can recommend that as a wise course of action...:)
@@chasesanbornmy gut feeling is the traditional ways of teaching ear training have not been questioned adequately, perhaps because it’s not as if learning random intervals is a complete waste of time, but I agree that your exercise is more efficient. Another application for it is in transcribing tunes and figuring out the chords. I often like to dry run what I believe the chord to be with the most appropriate scale that belongs to the chord, especially if I don’t have access to my keyboard.
The question has been raised whether most people chose or heard the same starting note that I did. Let the straw poll commence!
This is absolutely awesome.. less thinking, more hearing!
Another way to put it is that we think in order to improve our ability to hear. In the practice room we use both. In performance, the focus should ideally be almost entirely on what we hear, both internally and externally. It can be a challenge to get the thought process out of that equation.
This is the same process I used a million years ago when I was young to find what key a piece was in and what the chords might be. From there playing simple melodies helped my ear develop new ideas to work on.
Great minds thinking alike. :)
Excellent video
I'm glad you think so, and thanks for saying so!
Really nice concept for learning and teaching. Thank you!
Thanks for saying so!
This is how I initially learned to improvise. I was jamming with a group of guitar players, playing pop and rock tunes with no charts for the sax player. They had chords or tabs, but, if I wanted to solo, I had to just listen to them strum, and navigate my way around their chords. (I was not capable, at the time, of transposing to Eb, so I didn't even try.) I started by trial and error, figuring out a few safe notes, and gradually developed the solo from there over countless playings of the tune, with many, many clunkers (clams, I believe you hep cats call 'em) along the way. They were/are a very tolerant group.
That's it--find individual notes that seem to complement what we are hearing. The situation you describe is purely about listening, and I'd wager that your ear-based solos were much more musical than if you'd been given Eb changes. When you are staring at written music your attention is diverted such that you are less likely to hear 'clunkers' as opportunities for musical pathways unanticipated by both the performer and the listener. (Also, we all need a tolerant group around us.)
Holy crap, this is amazing. This will be what I work on for the next month.
That's music to my ears, thank you!
This is spot on! 100% SPOT ON!
Glad you concur!
As a longtime player struggling to find the right approach(es) for me, as well as middle school band/ jazz teacher who tries to get all my jazzers to solo ...this is a refreshing and most welcome approach. Thanks for your efforts.
Glad to hear that. Kudos to anyone who teaches middle school band!
Great lesson! Thanks!
Glad you think so, and thanks for saying so!
This has resonated with me better than other approaches. Thanks Chase.
I always knew you to have good ears.
SOLID!!
Concise!
Wow, great lesson!
This is a great approach for beginners, and a great re-centering for intermediate and advanced players! Good stuff man!
We can all use a reminder to just listen. (And smile. :) Thanks for the comment!
Really cool way to listen and figure things out in a way that makes sense 100 times more powerfully than "play this scale with this chord".
Glad to hear that. I know it's effective in a clinic setting where audience members choose the notes by show of hands. Wasn't sure how well it would translate on TH-cam.
Thank you,JazzElder 🌟🔥🌹🔥🌟
You've got the 'elder' part right anyway...:)
Cool, thanks!
You're welcome!
Absolutely the best ear training lesson with the least amount of music theory. All you need to know is the chromatic scale on your instrument and the difference between a whole step and half step!
You are never more than a half step from the 'right' note! :)
Fabulous lesson!
Thanks for saying so!
I can’t believe you think most people would “hear” the 5th as the most salient tone! I picked the tonic.
That you are able to identify the scale degrees means your ears are attuned to the harmonic context. As to which note 'most' people would choose, I'll pose the question in my pinned comment.
Love this. FWIW my solos are always better when I close my eyes and deliberately do not "think" and just listen. (that is... when performing)
I think I made that exact point in the previous video.
Another part to this is it makes the note choices a conversation with the other players. There is agreement and argument, supporting bits and changes of subject interacting with each other in an intimate way.
One band I admire; you could hear the song falling apart as they played. But moment to moment, it was what made the song a perfect little crystalline structure that nearly fell apart until the next moment.
Jazz is very much a conversation as the players listen and react to each other, both in what they choose to play and how they choose to play it. With a backing track it is not a true conversation, but the player can still shape what they play based on what they hear. Anything that gets your ears involved moves you in the right direction as an improviser.
I've been rummaging through your channel and I dig it a lot. But I especially dig the quality of those backing tracks, where are they from? Greetings from Finland.
I always default to Aebersold whenever possible. Sometimes I edit a track to make it work for what I want to demonstrate. Glad you're enjoying the channel!
Thanks!
I love this topic!
I’ve been wondering lately if it’s time to redesign traditional ear training courses? This seems like a perfect component to such a course.
I also wonder if ear training should be kept separate from deep listening?
What do you think?
When the process is broken down to the point of this video, where you only have two choices, everyone can do it, and that's the point of the exercise. As a realistic extension, you could play the track for a student and time them to see how fast they can work it out. That would have much more real world application than identifying random intervals.
I would put deep listening in the category of ear training. Transcribing is deep listening taken a step further, and I think ultimately is the best ear training you can do. I've never been one to engage in or enjoy traditional ear training, but given that many people have better ears than me I'm not sure I can recommend that as a wise course of action...:)
@@chasesanbornmy gut feeling is the traditional ways of teaching ear training have not been questioned adequately, perhaps because it’s not as if learning random intervals is a complete waste of time, but I agree that your exercise is more efficient. Another application for it is in transcribing tunes and figuring out the chords. I often like to dry run what I believe the chord to be with the most appropriate scale that belongs to the chord, especially if I don’t have access to my keyboard.
I heard the same note wtf haha
As I predicted...:)