★ *QOTD: Are the good ole days of audio publications and print magazines better and/or more credible than today's TH-cam audio review channels?* ★ *NEED MORE INFO? ✔︎ THE ⬆︎DESCRIPTION⬆︎* ★ *COMMENT RULES:* - No outside URLs, TH-cam links or email addresses - Keep it civil. It’s okay to disagree, just don’t be a jerk about it.
Great video Andrew. I’m brand new to your channel but I’ve been around the block a few times in hi-fi audio, so I saw myself in some of what you described. I had subscriptions to Stereo Review and Audio magazines back in the early to mid 1980’s and I became a Mechanical Engineer partly due to my love of audio. I bought Polk Monitor 10B speakers back in 1990 after many hours of A-B-C comparisons at Chemung Electronics in Elmira, New York but sadly today that’s almost impossible to do anymore, at least where I live. I’m finding the only way I can demo speakers is to watch TH-cams and “hear them” through the coloration of my own PSB Alpha PS1 computer desktop speakers. It’s much like buying a car by looking at pictures and ads, sans the test drive. At any rate, you do great work here - keep it up! Minus the “test drive” your reviews definitely ARE quite helpful to me.
I have been buying audio equipment for fifty years or so and like many people started with a relatively humble system and upgraded over the years. The plethora of hi-fi mags were always a useful starting point in choosing new gear. However, we were blessed with vastly more bricks and mortar stores and the absolute maxim we lived buy was NEVER buy anything without listening to it extensively first. The more enlightened stores, and there were many of them, had dedicated listening rooms and welcomed extensive auditioning session. I have spent a whole day in one store comparing speakers with no hint of complaint from the store owner. As far as I was concerned I wouldn't even buy a cable without testing it first. Since the turn of the millenium I have bought most of my gear from just two dealers. They stock a great range of gear and are happy to accommodate people like me in their listening rooms. They are also happy to put a piece of your own gear into a shop system or for you to provide your own music (vinyl or CD). One also offers extended home listening trials for the more esoteric items. My last high-ish end system of Naim CD player, Krell amp and Martin Logan speakers was bought this way. I would not have entertained buying these unheard from an internet based store but we are being forced down this path as more and more stores are closing, not being able to compete. I no longer have the system just mentioned having sold it some years ago. But I would like to get something like it again. Perhaps surprisingly I have not looked at any newer systems as I am not able to apply my old maxim. Instead I have been looking at second hand Krells etc. in the knowledge that I could probably buy safely and get the sound I would expect. Music is an intensely personal medium. Not only the type or style but the actual audio qualities are unique to each of us. One man's detailed is another man's shrill and so on. However we are now living in a society where we blindly accept the opinion (sometimes paid for) of some internet influencer or other or are driven by the dictates of fashion where the brand is all important and matters such as "does it actually sound good to me?" of little or no relevance. Here in the UK we are lucky that we still have some good enlightened dealers who will welcome you through the doors of there emporiums and engage in a few hours of listening and discussion. Long may they remain for they will always receive my custom. In the meantime I feel sorry for those not so lucky and may not even know what a good personally tailored system sounds like so blindly buy the latest fashionable piece of kit.
Unfortunately I have had issues finding outlets where you can actually listen to mid range system components in the 5-10G system range. Your reviews have helped me to search out specific items for listening. For that, I thank you!
I asked a local hiFi store owner recently if HiFi really is dwindling, as they say online, and he said no, but it is changing: New or young audiophiles gravitate towards headphones, not speakers any more. Vinyl and to some extend the comeback of CD are also driving new sales. But it was indeed his opinion that the advent of true, widely-available high-end headphones during the last few years or so (excluding electrostatic headphones that have existed as a niche already for a long time) has saved HiFi. A good headphone can add as a stepping stone to speaker-based audio for younger people, some of whom have never in their lives even seen a stereo speaker set up. Yet everyone knows what a headphone is and can appreciate that there are differences in how they reproduce music. Once they start to hear proper (even three dimensional) stereo imaging, unprecedented resolution and correct tonality, the HiFi seed is planted. The Apple or Amazon smart speaker or earbuds will no longer do. He said every HiFi gear brand is now pushing out headphone amps or combination devices. Combined with streaming and analog audio chains that is the direction of both HiFi and highend HiFi now.
Im greatful for this video. I rely on formats like this and specifically this youtube channel. Andrew Robinson "is" my HIFi magazine for this information age. Your efforts dont go unnoticed, hence the growing popularity. Excellent work!
How about we take music away from the engineers and give it back to the musicians? Get rid of over compressed “two dimensional” music and get rid of mathematically corrected drum beats. Oh, and let’s not forget auto tune...
I’m completely on the fence about this. On one hand some amateur folk recordings performed with a single point mic sound the best to my ears. They’re so real that they’ll make you jump out of your seat. On the other hand new releases from Travis Scott and Billie Eilish sound amazing.
I remember looking at print magazines, but they always contained equipment that was outrageously expensive, from brands that I’d never heard of and couldn’t listen to locally even if I had the money, and usually were funny looking (as opposed to my Pioneer tt/Technics receiver/cheapo box speakers). I was never really a classical/jazz kinda guy in my younger years, so the tracks that were used in the equipment reviews (or record reviews) were unfamiliar to me. So those magazines were fun to look at, but I never considered buying anything they reviewed. Buying locally was usually done at my department store, from whatever they had, and you only returned something because it was broken, and even then you were put through the ringer to try to get your money back or a replacement. Now you can see multiple reviews of equipment at any expense level you like, and the return policies for most gear is so lenient that you don’t have to keep hardly anything you don’t want. There are very few pieces of equipment today that are so bad as to be unlistenable, just not as great as the next piece. Life is good. Only the truly spoiled can complain today about the level of equipment out there.
Think Sony done 360 sound are Awsome sound and that is stream to speakers Headphones like SONOS systems and so on are Sony 1080 Reciver that What hifi put in there's Hall of Fame are Realy Change everything in how sound works Sony are Best in phones actually Xperia 1 and forward actually Do Sound better not in mobile speakers not Awsome in any phones not what I say good sound are Stream without lost in Sound get out from Speakers to Reciver and sound get out to speakers when a phone stress in Highend lika Xperia 1 and forward do are not Heard before Sony move sound technology forward today without go bankrupt 👍
In my opinion Andrew you are doing a fantastic job bringing people valuable information, I understand how difficult it is to put a relevant and interesting video every time with hopes that you can retain your audience and be innovative and intelligent in this area of overwhelming information. Keep up your good job.
High-end audio hasn't changed. Pro reviewers, with few exceptions, will not put high-dollar, prestige-oriented components side-by-side, grade them, then declare an overall winner. Road and Track does it for cars; Consumer Reports for appliances. I suspect if you put a Wilson up against a Sonus Faber, the loser will never send the reviewer another one to review. So, yeah, it hasn't changed.
As someone who once worked in print advertising, I can promise you that editorial is absolutely guided by ad sales, even in the publications mentioned. R&T and CR are not immune to the need to make/keep advertisers happy. I would be willing to bet my life savings that these side by side comparisons went through several rounds of revisions (as to not completely alienate any single manufacturer) before going to print, or at the very least, perhaps one of the brands being judged was on the edge of renewing an ad contract or not...don't get it twisted, you are ALWAYS being sold to.
I used to get Sound & Vision and Stereophile back in the earily 2000's. I did enjoy reading them but many of the products in these magazines seemed cherry picked for marketing reasons while many good products never even made it into any of these magazines. This is why I prefer the internet and TH-cam, just because so many more products can be reviewed and compared and often multiple reviews for one product. I think its a good thing when several TH-camrs all review the same product long as they are faithful to their experience and don't all hype the same BS. This gives me several opinions to help to chew on and make an informed decision. When I do my reviews I just tell people exactly what I find and think, I'm not interested in pedding BS or hyping a product because I hate when other TH-camrs do it. Plus I like to play devils advocate since I'm a skeptical person. Another great video, thanks Andrew.
Well, for the average person, it has changed. For me, my first stereo was going Sears. I purchased a Technics SAGX290. For A 15 year old. Was awesome. I remember when BestBuy used to display speakers and you could audition them. Remember before Tweeter closed down in 06 or 07 checking out Magnepans and Mirage. In about 15 years this changed. There are audio stores around. But not many. Bluetooth speakers have flooded the market. But to those of us that know where to look. The audition side is hard to come by. I know of 3 audio stores within 45 minutes of me. When I was a kid there were 7 places including a Cambridge Soundworks store in town. And all of them auditioned speakers. The last set of speakers I did audition were Insignia NS-SP213's. 60 bucks is still 60 bucks. And I don't like to waste money! But also I think people get Audiophile and high end mixed up. You don't have to spend a fortune to be an audiophile. Although, it does help.
Things are better now - TH-cam reviews are a great starting point compare different brands/models and to help narrow down to a product that may suit your taste instead of just a magazine or some pushy sales person but the biggest improvement are user reviews - I always check how users rate and what they say about a product before I make any purchase decision
In the '70s and even in the '80s, there were countless of Hi-Fi stores in my city. Ads announcing the latest amplifier or turntable were everywhere, in magazines, on billboards and TV. Now the city only has boring clothing stores and people listen to soundbites on their iPhone through earbuds or one of those annoying portable bluetooth speakers. A $1500 Hi-Fi system is simply a ridiculous idea to them but they gladly spend that same amount of money on a phone. So yeah, times are always changing.
Yes, but think of how people use a phone compared to how they use a hi-fi setup. A phone in the right hands can replace a laptop, photo studio, video studio AND still be a listening/streaming device. So I don't think the two are comparable to the degree you stated in your comment. That being said, I think the cost of phones is getting out of hand and is one of the key factors for why I've stopped upgrading every 12-18 months. I guess it all boils down to what one's priorities are. I would spend thousands (and have) on a camera -even one packing less than modern features -but the thought of spending that on a say a DAC, nope. Appreciate you watching and subscribing Alex!!!
Most people are simply uneducated on what good sound is. You don't even have to spend huge amounts of money to get really good sound quality these days, however, the average person can be impressed by a tinny bluetooth speaker. I'm trying to encourage my small circle into good sound, but there's only so much I can do as a "Hi-fi Ambassador" of sorts.
Andrew, I appreciate your honesty. Sean from Zero Fidelity talked about how the industry works behind the scenes and he talked about why there were no negative reviews, why reviewers are reviewing the same products and you just reiterated his thoughts. From time to time Steve Guttenberg has chimed in on this as well and Steve dedication to the low, medium and highend has been extraordinary, but yes he has an agenda and that’s viewership and TH-cam revenue. This is information that needs to get out but I understand why it hasn’t because as you said people have an agenda and for the printed media it’s to make money and even for TH-cam it’s money and viewer ship as well. I’m lucky enough to have have a great dealer that has excellent service, home editions, special events where industry people come out to his store to visit, there is food at these events, drinks and there is an event once a month on the first Saturday of the month where we go to the shop for Coffee and we listen to music and talk. I understand that even though my dealer is great, he has a hidden agenda and he is still in business to make money and these events lead to sales leads, but I have no problem with anyone making money. We have an event on Feb 20th where Garth Leerer will be at the store showing us the new AMG turntable and other items and there will be plenty of food and drink. Thank you Andrew because you and Sean have shown even though everyone has a motive, there are still a few good men left. Your style Andrew matches Sean’s, there is no fancy B-roll or colors, or big special effects, just straight talk from good guys that are trying to get the truth out as both of you see fit. Thank you Andrew for being true to yourself first and true to us and I hope you have an excellent year.
Appreciate the honest insight into print media era. 2 points that everyone should take away: (1) no, magazines are not necessarily more "professional" because there's no "school" for high-end audio and (2) magazines write content for the purpose of selling the magazines and not for the purpose of an writing an "unbiased" review.... I daresay TH-cam created a hypercompetition whereby viewers can quickly sniff out a sponsored copycat - hence Andrew is under even more pressure to maintain unbiased content in order to build and maintain a following on this channel
The industry has changed. Audio electronics was always within the reach, price wise of most people years ago but unfortunately today, the better equipment has exceeded the pay scale of most consumers. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. But the astronomic prices for amplifiers and especially speakers of the highest order give great pause for all but the very wealthy. Good review.
In January 1981 What Hi-fi listed the Roger LS3/5A as 189GBP. Rogers resumed making the same speaker in 2019 and asked 2750GBP for it. The buying power index gives 1GBP in 1981 as 4.2GBP today (2020) which means the second hand price of 750-800GBP for the 30 year old speaker matches inflation but the new production is 14.5x the cost. There are other near field studio monitors for the 290-1000GBP e.g. Adams T5V, T7V and A7X and many thousand more models in any price range and even more at much lower prices. In 1980 there were a handful of speakers in the 1100-2000GBP price range (over half a year's annual salary). Speakers that match the performance of them are now over 11k GBP and more likely in 30-50k GBP range. They now have DACs, DSP and room configuration and some super tech materials but we do not listen to tech; it is the audio/music that counts. Analogue speakers, particularly passive speakers can be interchanged with many modern and vintage components. Some classic UK/European equipment used DIN plugs instead of RCA but the costs of changing the plug low. You can readily mix and match, upgrade or replace be it within some parameters - e.g. you needed an amplifier that would power your speakers adequately or pick a more efficient speaker for a lower powered amplifier. Sources even digital output to analogue. This is now changing with digital signals going to the DAC built into DSP speakers. The benefits are many. However, when streaming services are also built in we now get into the problem of software upgrading. Streaming services come and go along with the library and catalogue you have paid for. The interface on your computer or smart phone gets updated weekly. Updates to most audio gear isn't possible and when it is the manufacturer has a limit of what they can provide for earlier models as seen with Sonos, Devialet and Kef yet the user would expect much longer service life from there hi-fi than seen in these examples leaving their customers with software issues unresolved and no longer supported or updated when a newer model is launched. Digital also added a new complication. Coaxial, Toslink, Speakerlink, J45 Ethernet, HDMI, HDMI ARC and eARC. How to upgrade from a 2 channel system to surround sound other than convert it all back to analogue and have an analogue receiver and passive speakers.
I'm one of your older subscribers. 67. Started in high school. Kenwood integrated, dual turntable, realistic speakers. Not TOO bad for 50+ years ago. My bedroom system has that Sony receiver got for $120, with Elac uni fi ub5 speakers got for $374. = $ 494. Using bluetooth. I also have the Micca rb42 I alternate with. $149. Sometimes I listen to my turntable. A 37 year old Denon. I have the Grado GTe+1 cartridge I bought for $15 35 years ago. Off a great review in the Absolute sound. Go figure. Still sounds great. All the new stuff I bought online never having heard. All you tube reviews. My main system has Ohm Walsh Micro towers Talls and an Outlaw RR2160 receiver crossed over at 100hz to dual svs SB3000 subs. No fancy cables. Music and video. LG OLED 65inch. Cable and You tube. All but the TV bought directly from manufacturers. Never heard them first either. Still sounds great. Approximately $4500 total. A little more with the stand as and $300 Yamaha CD player. And wires. 5k or so. Was at the Florida audio Expo last weekend. Systems from 10k to 500k +. Some I had to leave the room sounded not so good. Some sounded really good but for the price they should have. Lol But listening to Ella Fitzgerald singing These Foolish Things sounds great on any of my equipment. Close your eyes sit back and enjoy. Can enjoy at $300 or $300k. IMHO I really enjoy your channel and common sense approach to this crazy hobby. Thanks
I am troubled by pseudoscience which sells cables for tens of thousands of dollars, such as the claim skin effect must be corrected for in speaker cables, insulation storing static electricity and releasing in into the wire, keeping cables off the floor etc. Skin effect of a typical 8 gauge wire in series with 4 or 8 Ohm speakers loses only a percent of a dB over DC at 20 kHz. That is why I make most of my own amplifiers and cables. A $350,000 amplifier can be built for less than $1500 worth of close to the same parts. Tuition, if it were not waived in graduate school, in which the theory can be learned to design it yourself with a little application, costs less than what you have to pay to get nothing better, and it helps you to call the bluff of "high end" cable manufacturers and calculate whether what they claim adds up.
What I think is vastly different then and now is physical access to sample products. When I first started obsessing over cassette decks in the 80's, I'd first look over Stereo Review (and their annual cassette deck line up) to find qualifiers in my budget. I then had several chain stores and hi-fi boutiques that each covered a range of different brands on display. "A kicking of tires" of sorts. Some travelling, but I got to sample the performance in-store (most didn't let you sample at home in my area, and still don't). Today, most of the Audio boutiques have shut down, leaving the Best Buy's of the world filling in where they can. That, and on-line purchasing offering no initial impressions aside what is offered by TH-cam reviewers. As pointed out, nothing has changed in one sense. Information and reviews are readily accessible, and more methods of distribution making more product readily available. It's the sampling process that has deteriorated requiring more weight on reviewer opinion. Naturally, access to demo products may vary depending where you live.
Some others here have said it and I will repeat it. This is easily the best time in history to be into audio. Never has so much great equipment been available at such affordable prices. Nope, you're not going to get Wilson Chronosonic or Gobel Divin levels of scale, dynamics, detail and realism for under a couple of grand but then the vast majority of people back in the so called golden age of audio couldn't afford the trophy systems of that time either. The difference is that they couldn't go out and get for literally one or two percent the cost of some of these high end speakers, not including the associated equipment, a entire system that embodies most of the same attributes of the aspirational models. Now, having said that, maybe it's just me but reviews, whether online or in print, are nothing more than introductions to gear I may not have heard of or may not have given any credence to before. But nobody is making me or anyone else go out and buy anything after reading the review. In any case, I don't think there are nearly as many lost sheep in need of saving from the audio wilderness as people in online audio forums like to believe. But hey, if someone does go out and buys a speaker he or she likes based on a review that you don't think is the best they could have purchased for the money, well guess what? That's just your opinion. It's not a fact no matter how strong you believe it. In the US at least almost every piece of gear that retails for, say, less than three grand can be found online with a return policy, at a store with a return policy or at a serious hi-fi dealer who often also has either return policies or store credit allowances. These stores are usually within a four hour drive of most anywhere in the country save for remote regions of Texas, Alaska, Montana or Wyoming. Unfortunately, if you live in the boonies it's still your responsibility to choose wisely. If Andrew, Steve, Zeos, Sean, Kal, John, Peter, and Julie all agree that the new Awesome Audio 300 is the best speaker under twenty thousand they've ever heard that doesn't mean you'll like it. I'm assuming (dangerous, I know) that we're all adults here. We have choices. Reviewers do not decide for us. It's our money, not theirs. It's our ears, not theirs. Which means, it's our choice to make and our fault if we buy something without hearing it and then hate it and have no way to return it. Reviews, no matter how experienced the reviewer, are nothing more than someone's opinion. You know, the thing we all seem to have when it comes to someone else's choice but for some reason can't settle on when making a choice for ourselves.
I ran across your channel a few months ago while researching stereo equipment for my new place. Recently divorced(my wife said I had a problem with too much stereo equipment) I was looking to upgrade my old system and came across a review you did. I found you informative, honest and entertaining I watched a couple more and subscribed. I do hope you can maintain your channel as I watch it even when I’m not shopping for new speakers etc. 🔊
As a purchaser of my first serious system in the late 70s …today is waaaaaay better..if you can’t find what fits your budget or music interest, you can’t blame the market…I do on the other hand miss going down to my local CMC stereo shop and listening to the new Advent or AR speakers
There has been one disturbing trend among the on line viewers, especially on youtube. Folks, especially those of the younger generation who grew up with youtube, wish to make all of their judgments about hifi while sitting and surfing the net, and they will audition products by listening to them through their home desktop system. This is especially problematic when auditioning speakers, since they are listening to a recording of a speaker system that is being played back through their system. Worst part of this scenario is that many folks don't grasp the problem of this. I fear the day when the brick and mortar hifi shops all close since they cannot compete with on line sales. No longer will we be able to go to the store and actually hear in the live a component or speakers.
THIS IS MY BIGGEST PET PEEVE WITH RESPECT TO TH-cam. Thank you for understanding. Thank you for realizing (like many do) that a speaker test via TH-cam is worse than pointless. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews As a young-ish person, I enjoy demos not because they show the actual qualities of a speaker but because I get to hear what the reviewer is experiencing that makes the product so good. In the same way our generation watches people play video games. It's not because we think it will be the same as actually playing the games but because hearing someone react realistically to a product helps me gauge exactly what is interesting in the moment. It's all of sudden the speaker is real because I see someone actually using it. It makes much more tangible in the same way a video does over a magazine. That said I HATE A/B test videos because they are super un-useful.
But you're not experiencing what I'm hearing, you may be experiencing my reaction -which is different -but you're never "hearing" what I'm hearing. Is that fair? Appreciate your comment.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews The point of sound demos is so you can compare different products, not so you can judge their quality. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I've never made a significant audio purchase just from a TH-cam video, a TH-cam video has however given me a good idea of what to look for when listening in person, the only exception being when a favorable return policy and widely noticed as good. I'd also like to point out I've purchases maybe 20 audio items just from watching online reviews, I'd say 80% of them I kept, thanks to amazons good return policy I was able to return the ones I did not like, I think in some ways this is actually better then listening in store as I get more time, get to listen to what I want too listen to, and am in private. I think so long as you compare your preferences to the reviewers and make sure they line up fairly well, and listening to multiple reviews on the product, it is not a huge issue. At least not anyone that I know personally.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Yes, wrong choice of words. I should've said seeing the person react. It's like seeing someone review wine (I've never done this nor do I wish to) Seeing the person sip the wine and describe the feeling in realtime is more entertaining than seeing someone just talk about the flavor profile. Now, I'm not saying demos should replace a more analytical review like yours. In fact, if I had to choose I'd rather have your style so there's a more coherent thought at the end. I'm just saying there's a real visceral feeling of watching other humans feel emotions in the moment that is enjoyable. It reminds me why I keep listening.
I think the big thing that has changed is that there are less places to go and actually listen to audio gear than there used to be. I feel more dependent on reviewers.
I absolutely agree with you. I remember in 90’s there were many shops with listening room where you could listen different gears with different combinations. For example Marantz had a beautiful sales center in Athens where I purchased my first Marantz CD player and Amplifier ( CD-80 and PM-80 ). As I wasn’t sure what I wanted so I had an audition for about 2 hours before I decided what I wanted. Those good old days when we could listen before we purchased our gears and hats off to those sales persons who had patience and knowledge of the products they were selling. I got all those attention even if I was only 21, these days no sales person would give a shit about a 21 years old young man in a hi-end shop like that. I miss those good old days.
Ahhh the truth :( It's hard to make a decesion on things you've actually never experienced... I wish there were shops here in dallas where you could preview hi-fi equipment and audio..
Yes, I bought Klipsch kg2s in an audio listening room in a Pittsburgh area shop, the Listening Post, back in ‘88. And - they did not sell TVs. Those were the days. Those shops now are long gone. Where does one go to compare? How does one compare? While there were snooty shops, there also were those like the one I went to, were employees cared. They wanted to introduce you to high-end audio.
My humble old opinion. I believe that you have missed the critical point of the question. Music & therefore HiFi is an experienced phenomenon. Critical opinion is derived from direct experience. With fewer opportunities to experience HiFi in person the ability to learn from comparisons is lost. A very serious problem for the entire community. I have heard "good enough" way too many times from listeners of all ages and stripes over the last decade or so. Very sad for all the lost experiences to be had as you grow your system and your appreciation of the improvements in higher fidelity. Francis Devlin
Yep, I was a magazine reader and now a TH-cam watcher. Same dance, different tune. My preference was Stereo Review/Sound & Vision, which I'm happy still exists online. I never read much Absolute Sound but I remember picking up a few issues of their sister publication, The Perfect Vision. They made me laugh because they would review six-figure home theater systems, and in the movies section would be reviewing monaural French films on LaserDisc, even after DVD had been around a while. I'm sure they sounded great coming out of a $10,000 center speaker.
I have been in this hobby for about 45 years, and 2 things have become substantially more difficult than they were 30+ years ago, finding a brick and mortar dealer at which to demo gear, and actually buying gear with poor sound quality. There are fewer dealers presumably because of the prevalence of alternative channels for such purchases, and the latter change is just because of the general increase in sq per $ in the audio world. Maybe I am deluded, but it seems to me that the cost of good sound has gone way, way down, and I very rarely hear bad gear anymore. Taste is still taste and therefor individual, but I have a power amp, preamp, dac/headphone amp, and speakers the total cost of which was just over $1k. This system, to my ears, sounds at least as good if not better than systems that cost $3-5k in 1990, in 1990 dollars. No, The Sensible Sound doesn't exist anymore, but when it comes to sound, as Carly Simon said, these are the good old days.
Also another thing is from that question it sounds like they are putting down current audiophiles which is a little strange for any niche area or life. Do you want the community to grow or do you just want the community to stay the same and then the niche die. Also what's considered technology has changed so much in terms of you can get uhhhhhhmazing audio now for normal people. You can get good enough that you will ever truly need for a cost effective price.
Things have changed due to the fact that there are less stores to audition products now than there were 20 or 30 years ago ..Now we research on you tube and then what take a chance and buy on line, no audition. Therefore the customer is purely purchasing a product on the say so of a particular review and not being able to confirm suitability for their actual needs. Progress ?
Some manufacturers do offer trial at home with a no question return policy, even as far as collecting it from you at their cost. But even for a month and having a couple of expensive systems in for comparison may leave you even more confused. Compared to early days of hi-fi there are a hundred times as many products and more at any price range and a lot at levels that are only possible to buy if you are in the top 10% of income levels. With so many models it is even harder to find a dealer that has more than one product from any short list you may come up with.
I first got involved in audio in 1979. It was a separates system all made by Akai ... I think it was called the Akai Pro 101 all screwed into a Studio styled rack - all jet black. It looked a lot better than it sounded but at the time (being a teenager) I thought it was incredible. The HiFi bug bit and I started buying HiFi magazines - many are still in publication. Like you, I collected years worth, and over that time I saved and bought many amazing systems. The very shop I bought most of my equipment from, I ended up working for (Sevenoaks HiFi) ... My ears became very good at listening and hearing the differences between products. This became a skill, and in 1989 it got me a job as a trainee sound engineer in a small London commercial recording studio. Over a period of 12yrs I got to meet and hear many well known artists. I also learnt about commercial quality recordings and specialist audiophile recording techniques. Being involved this way changed my whole attitude and approach to HiFi ... The black art of high end mix & match lost its elusive charm and having access to many master recordings allowed me to make comparisons. I also joined this fascinating world during the analogue/digital revolution (which was a game changer) Today I own a small quality project studio. I have a side interest/passion for cinematic quality visuals too, but with cameras and all the kit needed costing 100k plus for basics, it's a limited infection lol. Audio is a remaining passion, and audiophile recording techniques and available technology has improved dramatically. I hoard equipment ... I own classic mic's that cost thousands 30yrs ago I also own many modern mic's costing considerably less that outperform. On the other hand, I still own a 1980's Krell power Amp that still sounds incredible, yet it's hardly used. Its power hungry and the lights dim every time its switched on lol. My home system is a high end mid-field active system. I enjoy it greatly and will often test various studio recordings (stereo masters) on it. Things have improved greatly over the years, but commercially available recordings are far from what's possible. People might hate me for saying this, but a genuine (masterfully recorded) high end digital audiophile recording, will technically outperform an analog recording, but as with everything, some will love it, some will not as its all subjective. Recording studios and HiFi have an awful lot in common with Willy Wonka.
Andy, when I was growing up in the 70's in New York, I walked into a stereo dealership and on they would have soundrooms with Technics, Sansui, Sony, Pioneer, Marantz on the shelves, connected to AR, KLH, Wharfedale, etc. speakers, to compare each system of your interest. Those days are over. Today, you just choose a make and model you may be interested in, order it over the Internet and call it a day!
I totally feel your reply/sentiment on the given matter on this episode. I am practically new to the hobby, but the analogy is the same for us DJs.... that whole vinyl vs. digital topic. At the end of the day, it is how you play the cards that you're dealt with...hence there are no absolute right or wrong on this hobby. Just enjoy it as you go....taste is definitely subjective.
I think the one thing that has changed is you can sample speakers without leaving home but your still hearing them through your ol croppy speakers are whatever you have.
I just watched this video, and I want to tell you and Kristy how much I appreciate and enjoy your channel. I’ve been in the hobby for more years than you are old, and then quite a few more. It is so good to be able to share the benefits of decades of accumulated knowledge we all tend to acquire over time. We all learn from each other, and it is a never ending dance. Almost everyone is, in reality, in Customer Service, even in our non-work lives. The frictions we encounter, even when doing our best and with our best intentions, can gradually wear us down. I hope you are buoyed enough by your successes, and by the love and support in your private lives and relationships, to be able to enjoy your work for many, many years to come. And I hope that, if you ever retire, you will be able to know how much knowledge and pleasure you have shared, even though you won’t be completely aware of everyone you’ve touched.
Couldn’t have said it any better! +1 Thank you for all the content and how authentic y’all are about it :) It feels like y‘all are my unofficial-long-distance mentors as I’m a noob to the space :) Keep up the great work for as long as it makes you happy!
I just really love your passion for audio. It seems more authentic today than yesteryear . We all can share our experiences. Bad products are revealed early and it has pushed manufacturers to make better products cheaper. Thank you for your time making videos
The problem with magazines is they focus on trophy gear. The argument that the technology from trophy gear is cutting edge and will eventually filter down to budget items gets exposed as false once you learn enough about the industry. With cars you get things like dual clutch transmissions starting in cars that cost as much as a house and filtering downward in price over time. The technology in a speaker that costs as much as a house is not better than the technology in a $2k speaker. It's just trophy gear bought to show off to visitors.
Trophy gear is such a great way to put it, and you see it in soooo many hobbies. A lot of the time they don't seem to even know why their trophy gear is good if you were to ask them, they just know other people said it was.
Hello Andrew. I’ve been following this channel for some time. You are sincere and I enjoy and learn from what you do. My wife and I also appreciate the fact there is a female viewpoint and often wished there were more female reviewers as they can be just as good a critical listener as males. Who knows, It may also increase the popularity of hi-end audio. It’s really good to be able to see the sincerity and enthusiasm in the reviewers. Most viewers will workout who is credible or not. I certainly prefer the video reviews over the printed media. Generally you will get a greater look at the hifi equipment. You also often get a clearer view and understanding of the hifi equipment and it’s features. And your viewpoints on this particular video ring true enough for me. Thank you 😎👍
I'm later to this party, too, just catching this and -- yes. Agreed. I know, I know, I say this all the time that we are in the best era of audio ever. This channel is an example of this. It's great to have so many voices, such a variety of voices, more than we've in the days of print, to check in with for opinion, agreement or disagreement, and on the gear side, we do have more access to more gear offer more value for money than ever. Rejoice! We have Andrew (and other good reviewers, too), and the best audio ever.
This may be a golden age of hifi. Over 40 years of outstanding used gear on the market. The number of excellent US hifi companies The wealth of really high end gear. The really good entry level gear. Lots of vinyl.
I think the big change is the proliferation of sources of opinion and brands. There's an entire market's worth of brands that have come and gone in less than ten years, ones with deep penetration into the mindshare of the most influential review sites. When stuff really started to move out of print onto the web a few web based review sites popped up, and the majority of the action was on forums, but forums are relatively quiet these days, and many of the ones I used to frequent require the Wayback Machine just to see. Makes me sound old, but I'm really not; the internet has been transformed by youtube.
I am not in the HiFi audio realm, never have been. Never seen your channel before TH-cam suggested it right now. But that review is spot on and applicable to so many other industries too. I have a bit of experience in the higher end car audio realm (focal, dynaudio, seas, rainbow, etc), so i have been through many of the same steps as any HiFi enthusiastic or audiophile. And the issue applies to car audio for sure. The key part that you basically glossed over is the fact that there's no more brick and mortar shops. I used to know of 4 car audio shops in a 5 mile radius where i could go test out the latest Nakamichi or Eclipse deck. None near me carried anything as high end as mcintosh, but they sure as hell beat best buy! Now there's nothing. I don't know of a single car audio shop anywhere near me. And as any audiophile knows, you need to hear the equipment in person! Technology has advanced for the better, but business is business in the end. Models change and profit margins always want to expand. So it's critical that you hear the equipment, or at least be rich enough to buy it all as a 'trial' first. I stepped out of my element a year or so ago to find myself some entry-level HiFi cans, but there's not a shop around carrying byerdynamic, Sony studio, or whatever other quality brand. So i bought 2 sets on Amazon with the intention of returning 1, but I actually ended up keeping both lol. It's annoying to have to do that though, and sometimes impossible. Where the informational aspect comes into play is the massive oversaturation of "information". Its a tiny bit of good quality information scattered throughout 100x more junk. You admitted yourself that this is how you make money, and no doubt magazines did the same. But writing and printing articles takes time, takes copyediting, takes various stages of review. Nowadays any Joe Shmoe can take their cellphone and record "expert reviews" of any given product, and they actually do it all the time. And if they're cool enough, they get a mass following followed by ad revenue. You don't even need to be competent anymore, you just need to pretend like you are. So whether it's HiFi audio, car audio, bodybuilding, plumbing, or whatever else, there's a plethora of crap to sift through online to find the real meat. With online forums dying out now, it's basically just TH-cam and other 5 second sources of information that's 99% garbage. It's frustrating, it's irritating, and it's a LOT of work to make sense of it when you're new to a topic. So yes, i definitely share that guys views and concerns.
One of the biggest problems with TH-cam reviews is the algorithm that fires a dozen other “similar” videos into your feed. So once you have watched one review, half a dozen others will pop up, cementing the opinion that the item is worthy. That is how I stumbled on this video. It’s the same way Amazon works, it’s the same way a lot of online content works. Even some news channels only feed you the news that they think you want! I only watch online reviews to LOOK at hifi gear, not listen to reviews. The only reviewer should be your own ears. If you can’t hear any difference, do you really need that £1000 DAC?
I'm sorry, I didn't want to belabor the point, but I have heard of and owned several copies of each from back in the day. Appreciate you watching and subscribing!
Great Analysis and I used to collect all of the magazines that’s out mentioned and use them as reference material as well. It was so much fun to get that magazine issue in the mail because the previous book told and showed you what was coming that next month. People were accusing reviewers of being hacks in the comments section of the magazines and the editors would respond, people would threaten to cancel their subscription and now TH-cam is subscription based, but you can check out content without subscribing, but you could also do that by going to libraries and bookstores and sitting down and reading the magazines. I agree nothing has changed, but your prospective of what has changed. The industry has evolved since the internet and that evolution is TH-cam, but I still enjoy and subscribe to my print magazines, but the list is smaller and smaller.
You can add to the "problem" that many manufacturers are moving to a direct sale only type of model, Emotiva, Schiit, and others come to mind. These companies make great products, but you can't really experience them anywhere.. They do often offer a "trial in your home" period, which can be in some ways better because it removes the "room" from the equation, but it creates a fair amount of hassle, especially if you want to A/B some equipment. Many people dont want to purchased 5 pair of speakers listen to them all and then return the 4 that they didnt like, which is what would be required to find what is truly the "best" based on your personal taste... Additionally from when I used to sell car audio equipment I can think of many times where someone would come into the shop thinking they wanted a particular brand or model only for me to show them something they never even considered and them loving it. This is a tricky industry to end up with the right product without wasting significant time and money chasing the last 10% in performance.
Hi Andrew, as a journalist I absolutely agree with you. There's much more stuff available now, but the major change has been the way it's promoted, marketed and delivered. However, if the guy who sent you the email that turned into the subject of your video blog was trying to make another important point: in all of this technological change and competition for “audiences”, are we in danger of losing totally independent reviewers? A question of trust, I guess. But when a reviewer raves about a particular product, is he or she as “independent” as you'd like them to be, or have they been offered a kickback from the manufacturer? Decent kit is not exactly cheap, so customers need to know they can trust the reviewer. It's important for the reviewers reputation, and our trust. Thanks for your videos. Always interesting. Cheers, John
John - What constitutes a "totally independent reviewer"? TH-cam has very strict rules when it comes to making it clear to the viewer that a video has been sponsored so it should be easier for the viewer to know if a review has received a "kickback". In the past with print, brands were compensating the publication in terms of advertising dollars, dollars that support the editorial staff. Today, with TH-cam, the vast majority of brands do not sponsor content. They just expect the review to be done and hopefully, done competently enough so that it drives traffic to their product. This idea of independence and trust is so subjective and frankly, changes with the wind. I find it interesting that there is a belief that someone writing for a print publication is ethical, trustworthy and independent but the TH-camr isn't. In my opinion, these companies SHOULD be paying for content. Most people have no idea the time and cost that goes into the production of the videos Andrew produces. Adsense and affiliate links don't amount to what people think it does. But if a reviewer manages to get sponsored (good for him/her if they do!), the backlash that they receive suggesting that they have "sold out" or they are no longer trustworthy becomes a big issue - an unfair one for sure.
Kristi Wright I absolutely agree with you, and I wasn't singling out TH-camrs. For the record, I think Andrew does a good job. But elsewhere, online and in print, clever journalists can find clever and subtle ways of guiding you towards particular products. Not explicit ads, just clever language. As a journalist, I'm aware of this practice, but not everyone might be. And when we're discussing best sound, speakers and amps, it is so subjective.A minefield!
Great video, informative and to the point. I do feel like we purchase differently than I did when I purchased my first system in 1977 from one of the local audio shops. Walk in listen and choose by narrowing down my own preferences in the available products. I think in this regard it is more difficult to choose today. More companys to choose from with less "hands on" personal exposure for us. Thank you for your videos, job well done. keep up the good work.
Excellent question and well thought out response. I agree with both!!! However, I do think the issue is rather more complex and so whilst it can be fairly argued the status quo hasn't really changed, this is overly simplistic. As bricks and mortar stores continue to diminish, the way consumers buy their goods need to be considered. As mentioned, in days gone by consumers relied solely on a few magazines and the ability to audition/talk with a salesperson. Today, there's a multitude of sources consumers get their information - TH-cam being one only. Further, the sheer volume of reviewers taking the entire suite available has increased dramatically. Moreover, it seems consumers want all the information immediately. I have to agree with the questioner that certain products get reviewed to death. I'm not going to discuss the reasons, they've been spoken about on various channels (and perhaps here) many times. And yes, Andrew touched on some of those (far from all) in this video. Nowadays, 'entry' level gear (for want of another word), is actually very good. Think of speakers sub $500 or dacs sub $300. There's choice in the marketplace and sound quality had never been so good. Then of course there's been the rise of headphones (including iem's), streaming in all its variants all at 'entry' level prices offering great sound. This has led to a new type of consumer. Not the kind that would have read stereophile, collected it, looked back over it months later & perhaps dreamed of certain pieces of gear. TH-camrs, many without a background in audio can nowadays start their own channels and review especially this entry level gear. Typically a company is willing to give out a loaner in this price bracket & to those established reviewers 'loaner' perhaps becomes a 'keeper' etc. So, I think today more than ever, one needs to be very careful with what they see, especially given the opportunity to audition has been greatly reduced. However, as per any consumer goods purchased there's always an element of research that's required, rather than merely listening to a few reviews and taking those as gospel. However, in this information age, the ability to reach out to somebody for advice has never been easier. Just be aware that's it's not that easy for Andrew (as an example), to recommend a certain product for you as he doesn't know you, even though you think you may know him. 😆 He may be able to say something like..."steer clear of that amp, I know it has design flaws or dubious build quality), but he can't really say you'd love 'such & such' amp. He can of course speak about his love for certain Crown amps & that's great. However, it doesn't necessarily mean you will find that love in your system. There's just way more to it and still nothing will beat a home demo. Think I've digressed....nvm...all food for though. Cheers 🎶🎶🎶
I think you have a kind of misundertand hes question. When you talk about the wilson speakers that went on ´tour´ a round to each magazine to test and talk about , im just say as you , ´yes back in time in magazines and today they doing this´ But i don´t think that was what he was thinking about. Today the big difference is that those internet ´influencers´ ( let´s call them that and NOT revievers ) they have deals with those companies to ONLY make positive revievs , otherwise .... Job lost with that company. This have , combined with a 99 percent online sales structure in the market removed most of the old ways of choosing a product. Let me explain with an example... I play electric guitar and have my own studio. Back in time when people like me want a guitar they went to guitar shop/centers... Today they watch youtube and such and order online. What is the difference ? good or bad ? I personally will say the last is bad bad bad... Why ? Because buying a guitar without having it in your hand and TRYING it out remove your control with what you get. Same with loudspeakers and any other kind of HiFi / Studio gear ect. I would personally NEVER buy anything without having the abillity to Try , Test , Touch and inspect it by myself . Again an example from my world as a guitar player. You have two identically electric guitars same model same brand ect , two identically... BUT , when you have them in your hand and actually play on them they WILL fell and in some cases even sound different. So what do you get by just order online ? ,,,, Lack of that control with the product and choice to choose THAT particular one guitar. In HiFi / Studio world You NEED to have the abillity to listen to and try out the actual model you are looking at. Best is of course to try out several different ones and that way finding the one that is perfect for your use. Today more and more hit the market and it´s expanding as you correctly say. But . Also a lot lot of kind of crap ware is actually taking up most space. And they can easier sell lower quality as if it was better quality because of those many ´influencers´. Back in time when the magazines made reviews it was a bit harder to do that , because to buy the actual product you have to go to the shop. And , when there they demonstrated it for you so you end up listen to it first. Not like today.......
Thanks for a very interesting and well thought out review. I really appreciate all the time and effort that you and all the other y tube presenters put in to your productuons for our benefit
Wonderful presentation, but I prefer to read, and study about a hi fi audio product, or component before I decide to make a purchase. Then we paid for a magazine, or went to borrow it from the library - which I still do - now we pay for an Internet connection; so I get what you are saying, Andrew.
It's rare to read a bad review for high end hifi equipment. If a reviewer pans the equipment, you can bet the reviewer won't get to review next years equipment and the magazine in which it was published won't get any advertising from that brand. I have had favorable opinions of hifi gear from reviews and ads but once I heard them no longer held that opinion. It's always best to hear something before buying but I've been guilty of buying something by what I read.
There once was a time that all of audio information came from Stereo Review & High Fidelity magazine.... (and all amps sounded the same, so they said)..... and then in the late-80's, Audio and Stereophile took over and helped change high end audio. I'm sure there were people that didn't like the way things were changing.... along with CDs replacing LPs. I agree..... the only thing that the same is CHANGE!! I mostly miss buttons & knobs. The current industry seems to HATE putting knobs & switches on our gear.... and they claim that's what's more popular.
While I agree with your point about prolific reviews then and now, I think the one point from the comment that I agree with is the fact that there are fewer "brick and mortar" stores to actually go hear new gear. The nearest thing to a "good" 80s/90s era hifi store nowadays is the Magnolia section of a Best Buy. While they do manage to carry a handful of mid-/high-end brands, they're still quite limited to what's available to demo. So as the commenter eluded to, we have to put more trust in the online reviewers to decide what we want to try. Thankfully, Amazon (and others) have decent return policies...
Also Stereo Review High Fidelity Audio and the ones mentioned Audio is the same it’s the environment has There were regional stores Tech Hifi Pacific Stereo and smaller mom and pop Now you have Best Buy or stores that you have to be a millionaire It’s what every company is facing high overhead and leading the charge is real estate then salaries health insurance and utilities and fuel have soared Now also hurting it kids today download listen to music on phones with headphones 2 channel seams to be nonexistent but not to me and this channel Back in early 80s I worked for Tech Hifi business office/warehouse and was amazed every time I went into that warehouse It’s like I was in heaven The stores packaged stereo system of what you afford or listen to different equipment and make own decisions Then you could trade up or sell your old system to a friend or in Want ad So it be impossible for a store to set up place with listening rooms give advice and the customer buys it on internet But it is nice people like Andrew give honest reviews to guide to a purchase He gave a review of Pioneer Sx 450 which was my first good systems along with numerous others along the way I still have an sx 980 with used Heresy l that sound amazing
Interesting. As someone who used to read magazines, buy hifi , and grew up with the flashing lights of the 70’s hifi from names like Akai, Sansui and Kenwood, I agree with the nostalgic sentiment. We miss the new technology of sigma drives with 3 speaker cables, and the updated chemical mixtures of the magnetic coatings of the latest cassette tapes of then. All this experimentation was refreshing and creates for me, the interest and pursuit. Hifi nuts were putting toilet rolls behind speakers to stop them minutely rocking, or replacing the wooden baffles with concrete. But now with reviews all being in that viewer wary “+ 10 minutes “ length where the same is repeated in numerous different ways for time filler, the nostalgia created now is to quickly turn the page or skip ahead to find the meaningful parts. The meaning parts are fewer, because the you tube magazines review the same products at the same time from the same memo. I dont know. Maybe there is room for someone to break out and stick out from the crowd. Im rolling with you at the moment Andrew. I like the taste of candidness now and then. cheers.
There were untrustworthy magazines back in the day such as Stereo Review, a magazine that gave almost everything a good review. The pictures were nice though.
You have to remember that it is pretty much a waste of time to publish reviews of poorly made equipment. They likely tested such models, but simply did not publish to results. I don't remember if the magazines were fooled by the Bose 901 series, but I know a few high end audio shops that were mesmerized by the "spatial" quality of the sound. Of course 18 different arrival times from the speakers made it feel like you were in a bigger room. But the overall performance was mediocre.
Yep. I’m old enough that have had print magazine subscriptions to Stereo Review and High Fidelity. I still remember reading the reviews that led me to visit stores, listen to, and buy my Yamaha receiver and Paradigm speakers. Now as I shop for new speakers and integrated amps I simply do it by reading the on-line publications and watching TH-cam channels like this one. The major change has been there are no longer many stores near me where I can listen to the products I see reviewed. So in a way I now have to invest more time reading and watching reviews, and getting to know the reviewers likes and dislikes, so that I can make a more informed choice. I know most on-line retailers now include a trial period, but many still require the customer to cover return shipping costs. And even if they cover the cost, it’s still a pain to box up and send equipment back.
Once again, another great video that provides insight and clarity into what really goes on behind the scenes of an audiophile reviewer...Keep up the Great work, and stay encouraged.
There absolutely is an Audio Reviewing school. It's called SCHOOL. It starts by learning some science and electrical engineering so you can learn to throw away all of the snake oil crap, which is a big part of this business, and then learning some journalism. You can also benefit from sitting in on some recording sessions to see what really happens in this process, and to see that studios... THE STUDIOS RECORDING YOUR RECORDS... aren't filled with snake oil cables and other crap that doesn't add anything to the experience.
We all subscribed to Stereo Review back in the 70's, as well as having stores to test-drive everything. We bought Marantz, Pioneer, Teac, Nakamichi, Altec, and JBL. PS: It all LOOKED cool too! Now, it seems like the gear is the end-game.....not the music.....Sad... These days, I buy McIntosh, or buy Luxman and JBL-Synthesis then crank it up..... Cool gear, great music....not complicated.
Sony 1080 Reciver look in What hifi hall of fame are actually Done it say Xperia1 phone stream to that Reciver sound are in a Own level in Never heard before are Actually Very few actually Test that very hard find anyone actually Test streaming sound from all phones are Very big difference in Quality Sony have are not other have today And have friends have other phones they not get this big sound out that Xperia 1 and forward give out and to real Speaker from Chromecast so not Bluetooth speakers Stream or cast look gaming movie music big difference from different phones ......
Absolutely NOT. To the best of my knowledge -at least in hi-fi -this is a myth. Now, TV companies have been caught doing picture adjustments to their TVs before sending them out (NOT using better panels but sort of pre-calibrating), but I always do a full factory reset on every component that comes through the door even if it appears to be factory sealed. A lot of times when a review unit comes in, the product is still logged in as another reviewer, or is looking for another home wi-fi network, so a full refresh is mandatory.
I don't about the current reviewers, but some of the magazine reviewers were corrupt. I knew a marketing guy who carried around Rolex watches to bribe reviewers. And it worked for him.
Well, I don't have one of those nor have I ever been offered a Rolex. Actually, I've never been offered anything come to think of it. You mean to tell me I could've had a Rolex!? 😉
The big difference is that most of the purchases are done exclusively based on reviews. Wether these reviews are TH-cam or written. People buy online gear they never listened to. 20 years ago, they went to a brick and mortar hifi shop, wanting to listen to the gear the magazines were raving about. In there were people able to give a personalized advice, taking care of the customer, asking about what gear he already owned and trying to meet the customers needs and/or desires. The client then, could make a much more informed decision than the online buyer can nowadays
One remark you said was print was not a higher standard. I didn't take that perspective from your viewer's comment. What I "heard" was magazines drove traffic into retail stores where someone would, hopefully professionally, consult with the person on making a good choice based on many variables. Your viewer feels today's consumers are not being served because it seems everyone (I use the term broadly)reviews the same products and they all recommend the same products. And I assume his next point would be is are we creating audiophiles when they are sold something that really won't work with there existing equipment or room. Or are we creating more Spotify users?
But TH-cam drives traffic to online stores or to the manufacturer directly (who may conversely sell website direct) so it's still kind of the same. Only difference is, the showroom in many respects is now your own living room for many brands will let you live with a product for 30 or more days before you have to be sure-sure you want to keep it. As for the second part of your question, that is fodder for another video that I plan on doing.
High End audio is ABSOLUTELY different today. Nobody would buy a speaker on-line without hearing it. It is absolutely crazy to buy a speaker without hearing it. Sound demo's online is an absolute joke! Having the inability to hear a product before buying is like buying a car without knowing how it drives or fits. Buying speakers especially is dangerous without audition. You don't know what you haven't heard!
I don't fully agree since most serious dealers allow you to return your speakers if you aren't happy. To try out speakers in your own room, with your own equipment, is much better than trying them out in a dealer's showroom. Of course it's easier to figure out which speakers you want to audition at home if you can hear them somewhere else first, but most people never lived close enough to enough brick and mortar dealers to be able to listen to all their candidates anyway, so that issue was always there in some regard.
@@Evil_Peter Well the thing is that most stereo equipment that isn't a flashing lights boom box or soundbar type system manufactured these days sounds pretty darn good, even the non "name brand" stuff has gotten a lot better, even brands like "Rockville", "pyle","Monoprice", "dayton audio,"SMSL", "Technical pro" etc have a set of bookshelf speakers, Floor-standers, Turntable or a stereo receiver or two that sounds nice enough to put together a 2 channel system that sounds pretty darn good. And you don't have a pretentious asshole dealer who won't let you plug in your "non audio snob brand" receiver to 4 pair s of speakers in the same price range that you intend to audition in order to make a purchase, hell I could end up liking them all and buying all 4 pairs, or at least 2 pairs, a center, a sub and your overpriced wires to boot. But since you were an asshole. You don't get my money.
As the previous poster mentioned, there is a lot more trust involved now a days. I'm 55 and grew up with the publications, read them, made a list of what interested me and then was able to go to one of many stereo shops in my area to hear them first hand. That isn't possible anymore for the majority of people, you can do the homework to a certain extent, but it comes down to how much you trust the reviewer now, that has a lot of weight to it more then ever, whether it be on You Tube or otherwise. And the notion of "What is the reviewer getting out of it" weighs heavy on a viewers mind when making a choice. At the end of the day your ears are your best "reviewer", but that's become a luxury. I've spent and wasted a lot of money to find out for myself if a certain piece was to my liking, good thing a lot of companies have great return policies, but the hassle involved with that process compared to what I remember from my teens, getting up on a Saturday and spending hours in a HiFi shop listening and comparing side by side, are a distant memory.
Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, but as someone approaching 50 myself, I wonder if quite a few people are remembering the HiFi shop a little too fondly. My issues with the HiFi shop is the quality of the listening experience in the shop compared to your home and not to mention that driving to and spending hours in a HiFi shop isn't exactly a hassle free experience. At the end of the day I think most of us can agree that nothing beats listening to the gear in its intended room to see if it fits your needs. Today many companies are offering trials in the home just as HiFi shops used to do back then. HiFi gear I think will always be a somewhat frustrating and potentially expensive experience and that's not likely to change. Personally, I didn't think listening to speakers in the shop and trusting them if it'd sound good in my home was much better than reading/watching reviews.
@@hpham72 Oh, I'm with ya. And your right, having whatever in the room it's going to play in is the best way to demo anything, while that might be missing from the HiFi shop experience, it does give you a good idea of the sounds "characteristics". These are all opinions and good conversation, I don't think there's a right or wrong here, I have a few peoples opinions I take note of, but that's more so because we all seem to like the same "sound". As we both mentioned, good thing companies have decent return policies or trial periods so you can audition the equipment on site.
Just found your channel. Really interesting stuff! It's really nice to hear a non-hype point of view nowadays. I look forward to browsing your videos and reading your opinions on things like headphones and IEMs.
10:30 It's easy to collect TH-cam videos, copy&paste the links to your document file. This way, it would be easier to collect the information than magazines, takes up less space (and the only space it takes up is cyberspace). Way to go, what a great idea! I wish I thought of it, wait, I did, but I'm kicking myself for not thinking of that before. Now I can have a music collection (pick videos with no adds). On a lot of long play music videos there are no adds (like 50% of doof videos). Thanks Andrew for making me wake up.
GOOD VIDEO. I'm of the opinion that the TH-cam and online reviewer today has to be more on their game as far as pointing out not only the good but also the bad in things that they review. I've been involved in many hobbies and learned a long time ago that magazine's just about NEVER gave a really bad review to something. The writer may have written that whatever it was they were reviewing was very well suited for "X" whatever "X" was. They never really came out and said something was bad. Their editors had a hand in that I'm sure. The other thing that I looked at was which company bought the most/biggest ad space in a magazine. I also know that back in the day at least some products that went to magazines for review were tested and made the best that they could be before ever leaving a factory. That may not have been in all products but I know it happened in the firearms industry and am sure it happened in photography as well. You and the other TH-cam channels have done more to cut through the c**p in a short amount of time than in any previous era. Do your reviews make me want to spend money??? OH YEAH. Do you and the other reviewers give us all more info than the magazines of old? I believe on whole they do. Today's not a one stop shop for reviews anymore which I believe is a good thing overall. We the people that are buying gear just have to pay attention to more than one or two reviews anymore. GOOD STUFF KEEP EM COMING!
Interesting video as always, keep it up. I have a few opinions to make on this subject. I would agree that the information hasn't changed but how we consume information has. I would also agree that how we purchase products has changed over the years. That said, 30 years ago I wasn't aware of audiophile magazines and audiophile equipment and as such if I wanted something to play music with I would go directly to a number of local retailers and buy what I could afford. These werent specialist retailers and sold what I would now consider to be entry level equipment but of varying levels of quality and features. However, while in the store I still had access to information concerning each product and was still able to make an informed choice to some degree. These days the amount of retailers available for someone to walk into and buy equipment has decreased. While access to information has increased if someone just wants equipment to play a record on, and they don't do their research, the choice they have is limited. There is not the same number of local retailers available that sell hifi equipment and the products that are available are, in my opinion, inferior to what was available 30 years ago. There is no information in these stores regarding alternatives that would be a better purchase. There are better products available in specialist stores and at all price points, but you need to have done your research first to find out what these products are and where to get them.
I think that with the growth in the number of companies making audio gear, and more importantly, the frequency at which most of these companies introduce new models or upgrades, leads to information overload for consumers. Add to that the mushroom growth in the number of reviewers across new media channels (digital, TH-cam, etc), and I can see where the questioner is coming from.
Andrew, you didn’t address the simple point that people went to hiding stores to listen to speakers. I brought home 3 pair of speakers before I kept my first pair...
For Myself, It's not about the lack of publications (print/online) than it is about the very lack of places in which one can see and critically listen to the products reviewed. During the 70s and 80s, New York City was full of audio stores. From low-end to high-end, you had extreme physical shopping choices. Yeah. The magazines did help. But the end result was YOU bopping around town to check out that gear. Part of me feels that due to the above, many of us place too much stock on these online reviews. Some of these guys tend to come off like shills for the brands they are reviewing. Maybe I'm being somewhat "Old School" in my opinion about buying audio gear these days. But I feel it was so much easier and FUN to go to practically every stereo store in this city back then and be discriminating. That option is gone now.
It is certainly different for "readers". We used to "buy" magazines for products information and reviews. Now, thanks to internet. It's "free" and there are more "magazines" that we could choose. The barriers of entry is much much lower today. Publishing magazines cost a lot more than making a youtube video. Anyone could do it if they want to become a "reviewer". Same problems that consumers are facing that the "reviewer" may have been "bought" by manufacturers. That's depend upon the marketing dollars that the brands are spending. The fundamental has not changed. One thing is certain for the consumers: Too much information is presenting to us and it's difficult to distinguish who we can trust.
Even if a reviewer was "bought" today on TH-cam there are several that very likely have a different review. With magazines although the reviewer may not have been bought the publisher had it in their power and best interest to spin reviews to not look bad for their bigger clients. The difference today is that there's not just a few publishers in the TH-cam space there's many.
★ *QOTD: Are the good ole days of audio publications and print magazines better and/or more credible than today's TH-cam audio review channels?*
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Great video Andrew. I’m brand new to your channel but I’ve been around the block a few times in hi-fi audio, so I saw myself in some of what you described. I had subscriptions to Stereo Review and Audio magazines back in the early to mid 1980’s and I became a Mechanical Engineer partly due to my love of audio. I bought Polk Monitor 10B speakers back in 1990 after many hours of A-B-C comparisons at Chemung Electronics in Elmira, New York but sadly today that’s almost impossible to do anymore, at least where I live. I’m finding the only way I can demo speakers is to watch TH-cams and “hear them” through the coloration of my own PSB Alpha PS1 computer desktop speakers. It’s much like buying a car by looking at pictures and ads, sans the test drive. At any rate, you do great work here - keep it up! Minus the “test drive” your reviews definitely ARE quite helpful to me.
I have been buying audio equipment for fifty years or so and like many people started with a relatively humble system and upgraded over the years. The plethora of hi-fi mags were always a useful starting point in choosing new gear. However, we were blessed with vastly more bricks and mortar stores and the absolute maxim we lived buy was NEVER buy anything without listening to it extensively first. The more enlightened stores, and there were many of them, had dedicated listening rooms and welcomed extensive auditioning session. I have spent a whole day in one store comparing speakers with no hint of complaint from the store owner. As far as I was concerned I wouldn't even buy a cable without testing it first.
Since the turn of the millenium I have bought most of my gear from just two dealers. They stock a great range of gear and are happy to accommodate people like me in their listening rooms. They are also happy to put a piece of your own gear into a shop system or for you to provide your own music (vinyl or CD). One also offers extended home listening trials for the more esoteric items. My last high-ish end system of Naim CD player, Krell amp and Martin Logan speakers was bought this way. I would not have entertained buying these unheard from an internet based store but we are being forced down this path as more and more stores are closing, not being able to compete. I no longer have the system just mentioned having sold it some years ago. But I would like to get something like it again. Perhaps surprisingly I have not looked at any newer systems as I am not able to apply my old maxim. Instead I have been looking at second hand Krells etc. in the knowledge that I could probably buy safely and get the sound I would expect.
Music is an intensely personal medium. Not only the type or style but the actual audio qualities are unique to each of us. One man's detailed is another man's shrill and so on. However we are now living in a society where we blindly accept the opinion (sometimes paid for) of some internet influencer or other or are driven by the dictates of fashion where the brand is all important and matters such as "does it actually sound good to me?" of little or no relevance. Here in the UK we are lucky that we still have some good enlightened dealers who will welcome you through the doors of there emporiums and engage in a few hours of listening and discussion. Long may they remain for they will always receive my custom. In the meantime I feel sorry for those not so lucky and may not even know what a good personally tailored system sounds like so blindly buy the latest fashionable piece of kit.
You get it...
Unfortunately I have had issues finding outlets where you can actually listen to mid range system components in the 5-10G system range. Your reviews have helped me to search out specific items for listening. For that, I thank you!
I asked a local hiFi store owner recently if HiFi really is dwindling, as they say online, and he said no, but it is changing: New or young audiophiles gravitate towards headphones, not speakers any more. Vinyl and to some extend the comeback of CD are also driving new sales.
But it was indeed his opinion that the advent of true, widely-available high-end headphones during the last few years or so (excluding electrostatic headphones that have existed as a niche already for a long time) has saved HiFi. A good headphone can add as a stepping stone to speaker-based audio for younger people, some of whom have never in their lives even seen a stereo speaker set up. Yet everyone knows what a headphone is and can appreciate that there are differences in how they reproduce music. Once they start to hear proper (even three dimensional) stereo imaging, unprecedented resolution and correct tonality, the HiFi seed is planted. The Apple or Amazon smart speaker or earbuds will no longer do.
He said every HiFi gear brand is now pushing out headphone amps or combination devices. Combined with streaming and analog audio chains that is the direction of both HiFi and highend HiFi now.
Im greatful for this video. I rely on formats like this and specifically this youtube channel. Andrew Robinson "is" my HIFi magazine for this information age. Your efforts dont go unnoticed, hence the growing popularity. Excellent work!
How about we take music away from the engineers and give it back to the musicians? Get rid of over compressed “two dimensional” music and get rid of mathematically corrected drum beats. Oh, and let’s not forget auto tune...
I’m completely on the fence about this. On one hand some amateur folk recordings performed with a single point mic sound the best to my ears. They’re so real that they’ll make you jump out of your seat. On the other hand new releases from Travis Scott and Billie Eilish sound amazing.
I remember looking at print magazines, but they always contained equipment that was outrageously expensive, from brands that I’d never heard of and couldn’t listen to locally even if I had the money, and usually were funny looking (as opposed to my Pioneer tt/Technics receiver/cheapo box speakers). I was never really a classical/jazz kinda guy in my younger years, so the tracks that were used in the equipment reviews (or record reviews) were unfamiliar to me. So those magazines were fun to look at, but I never considered buying anything they reviewed. Buying locally was usually done at my department store, from whatever they had, and you only returned something because it was broken, and even then you were put through the ringer to try to get your money back or a replacement. Now you can see multiple reviews of equipment at any expense level you like, and the return policies for most gear is so lenient that you don’t have to keep hardly anything you don’t want. There are very few pieces of equipment today that are so bad as to be unlistenable, just not as great as the next piece. Life is good. Only the truly spoiled can complain today about the level of equipment out there.
Think Sony done 360 sound are Awsome sound and that is stream to speakers Headphones like SONOS systems and so on are Sony 1080 Reciver that What hifi put in there's Hall of Fame are Realy Change everything in how sound works Sony are Best in phones actually Xperia 1 and forward actually Do Sound better not in mobile speakers not Awsome in any phones not what I say good sound are Stream without lost in Sound get out from Speakers to Reciver and sound get out to speakers when a phone stress in Highend lika Xperia 1 and forward do are not Heard before Sony move sound technology forward today without go bankrupt 👍
In my opinion Andrew you are doing a fantastic job bringing people valuable information, I understand how difficult it is to put a relevant and interesting video every time with hopes that you can retain your audience and be innovative and intelligent in this area of overwhelming information. Keep up your good job.
Thank you so much for watching, Ron!
High-end audio hasn't changed. Pro reviewers, with few exceptions, will not put high-dollar, prestige-oriented components side-by-side, grade them, then declare an overall winner. Road and Track does it for cars; Consumer Reports for appliances. I suspect if you put a Wilson up against a Sonus Faber, the loser will never send the reviewer another one to review. So, yeah, it hasn't changed.
As someone who once worked in print advertising, I can promise you that editorial is absolutely guided by ad sales, even in the publications mentioned. R&T and CR are not immune to the need to make/keep advertisers happy. I would be willing to bet my life savings that these side by side comparisons went through several rounds of revisions (as to not completely alienate any single manufacturer) before going to print, or at the very least, perhaps one of the brands being judged was on the edge of renewing an ad contract or not...don't get it twisted, you are ALWAYS being sold to.
^^ This. This right here.
I used to get Sound & Vision and Stereophile back in the earily 2000's. I did enjoy reading them but many of the products in these magazines seemed cherry picked for marketing reasons while many good products never even made it into any of these magazines. This is why I prefer the internet and TH-cam, just because so many more products can be reviewed and compared and often multiple reviews for one product. I think its a good thing when several TH-camrs all review the same product long as they are faithful to their experience and don't all hype the same BS. This gives me several opinions to help to chew on and make an informed decision. When I do my reviews I just tell people exactly what I find and think, I'm not interested in pedding BS or hyping a product because I hate when other TH-camrs do it. Plus I like to play devils advocate since I'm a skeptical person. Another great video, thanks Andrew.
Thanks so much! Appreciate the perspective!
Well, for the average person, it has changed. For me, my first stereo was going Sears. I purchased a Technics SAGX290. For A 15 year old. Was awesome. I remember when BestBuy used to display speakers and you could audition them. Remember before Tweeter closed down in 06 or 07 checking out Magnepans and Mirage.
In about 15 years this changed. There are audio stores around. But not many. Bluetooth speakers have flooded the market. But to those of us that know where to look. The audition side is hard to come by. I know of 3 audio stores within 45 minutes of me. When I was a kid there were 7 places including a Cambridge Soundworks store in town. And all of them auditioned speakers. The last set of speakers I did audition were Insignia NS-SP213's. 60 bucks is still 60 bucks. And I don't like to waste money! But also I think people get Audiophile and high end mixed up. You don't have to spend a fortune to be an audiophile. Although, it does help.
Things are better now - TH-cam reviews are a great starting point compare different brands/models and to help narrow down to a product that may suit your taste instead of just a magazine or some pushy sales person but the biggest improvement are user reviews - I always check how users rate and what they say about a product before I make any purchase decision
In the '70s and even in the '80s, there were countless of Hi-Fi stores in my city. Ads announcing the latest amplifier or turntable were everywhere, in magazines, on billboards and TV. Now the city only has boring clothing stores and people listen to soundbites on their iPhone through earbuds or one of those annoying portable bluetooth speakers. A $1500 Hi-Fi system is simply a ridiculous idea to them but they gladly spend that same amount of money on a phone. So yeah, times are always changing.
Yes, but think of how people use a phone compared to how they use a hi-fi setup. A phone in the right hands can replace a laptop, photo studio, video studio AND still be a listening/streaming device. So I don't think the two are comparable to the degree you stated in your comment. That being said, I think the cost of phones is getting out of hand and is one of the key factors for why I've stopped upgrading every 12-18 months. I guess it all boils down to what one's priorities are. I would spend thousands (and have) on a camera -even one packing less than modern features -but the thought of spending that on a say a DAC, nope. Appreciate you watching and subscribing Alex!!!
Most people are simply uneducated on what good sound is. You don't even have to spend huge amounts of money to get really good sound quality these days, however, the average person can be impressed by a tinny bluetooth speaker. I'm trying to encourage my small circle into good sound, but there's only so much I can do as a "Hi-fi Ambassador" of sorts.
Andrew, I appreciate your honesty. Sean from Zero Fidelity talked about how the industry works behind the scenes and he talked about why there were no negative reviews, why reviewers are reviewing the same products and you just reiterated his thoughts. From time to time Steve Guttenberg has chimed in on this as well and Steve dedication to the low, medium and highend has been extraordinary, but yes he has an agenda and that’s viewership and TH-cam revenue. This is information that needs to get out but I understand why it hasn’t because as you said people have an agenda and for the printed media it’s to make money and even for TH-cam it’s money and viewer ship as well.
I’m lucky enough to have have a great dealer that has excellent service, home editions, special events where industry people come out to his store to visit, there is food at these events, drinks and there is an event once a month on the first Saturday of the month where we go to the shop for Coffee and we listen to music and talk.
I understand that even though my dealer is great, he has a hidden agenda and he is still in business to make money and these events lead to sales leads, but I have no problem with anyone making money. We have an event on Feb 20th where Garth Leerer will be at the store showing us the new AMG turntable and other items and there will be plenty of food and drink.
Thank you Andrew because you and Sean have shown even though everyone has a motive, there are still a few good men left. Your style Andrew matches Sean’s, there is no fancy B-roll or colors, or big special effects, just straight talk from good guys that are trying to get the truth out as both of you see fit. Thank you Andrew for being true to yourself first and true to us and I hope you have an excellent year.
Appreciate the honest insight into print media era. 2 points that everyone should take away: (1) no, magazines are not necessarily more "professional" because there's no "school" for high-end audio and (2) magazines write content for the purpose of selling the magazines and not for the purpose of an writing an "unbiased" review.... I daresay TH-cam created a hypercompetition whereby viewers can quickly sniff out a sponsored copycat - hence Andrew is under even more pressure to maintain unbiased content in order to build and maintain a following on this channel
The industry has changed. Audio electronics was always within the reach, price wise of most people years ago but unfortunately today, the better equipment has exceeded the pay scale of most consumers. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. But the astronomic prices for amplifiers and especially speakers of the highest order give great pause for all but the very wealthy. Good review.
In January 1981 What Hi-fi listed the Roger LS3/5A as 189GBP. Rogers resumed making the same speaker in 2019 and asked 2750GBP for it. The buying power index gives 1GBP in 1981 as 4.2GBP today (2020) which means the second hand price of 750-800GBP for the 30 year old speaker matches inflation but the new production is 14.5x the cost. There are other near field studio monitors for the 290-1000GBP e.g. Adams T5V, T7V and A7X and many thousand more models in any price range and even more at much lower prices.
In 1980 there were a handful of speakers in the 1100-2000GBP price range (over half a year's annual salary). Speakers that match the performance of them are now over 11k GBP and more likely in 30-50k GBP range. They now have DACs, DSP and room configuration and some super tech materials but we do not listen to tech; it is the audio/music that counts.
Analogue speakers, particularly passive speakers can be interchanged with many modern and vintage components. Some classic UK/European equipment used DIN plugs instead of RCA but the costs of changing the plug low. You can readily mix and match, upgrade or replace be it within some parameters - e.g. you needed an amplifier that would power your speakers adequately or pick a more efficient speaker for a lower powered amplifier. Sources even digital output to analogue.
This is now changing with digital signals going to the DAC built into DSP speakers. The benefits are many. However, when streaming services are also built in we now get into the problem of software upgrading. Streaming services come and go along with the library and catalogue you have paid for. The interface on your computer or smart phone gets updated weekly. Updates to most audio gear isn't possible and when it is the manufacturer has a limit of what they can provide for earlier models as seen with Sonos, Devialet and Kef yet the user would expect much longer service life from there hi-fi than seen in these examples leaving their customers with software issues unresolved and no longer supported or updated when a newer model is launched.
Digital also added a new complication. Coaxial, Toslink, Speakerlink, J45 Ethernet, HDMI, HDMI ARC and eARC. How to upgrade from a 2 channel system to surround sound other than convert it all back to analogue and have an analogue receiver and passive speakers.
I'm one of your older subscribers. 67. Started in high school. Kenwood integrated, dual turntable, realistic speakers. Not TOO bad for 50+ years ago.
My bedroom system has that Sony receiver got for $120, with Elac uni fi ub5 speakers got for $374. = $ 494. Using bluetooth. I also have the Micca rb42 I alternate with. $149.
Sometimes I listen to my turntable. A 37 year old Denon. I have the Grado GTe+1 cartridge I bought for $15 35 years ago. Off a great review in the Absolute sound. Go figure. Still sounds great.
All the new stuff I bought online never having heard. All you tube reviews.
My main system has Ohm Walsh Micro towers Talls and an Outlaw RR2160 receiver crossed over at 100hz to dual svs SB3000 subs. No fancy cables. Music and video. LG OLED 65inch. Cable and You tube. All but the TV bought directly from manufacturers. Never heard them first either. Still sounds great. Approximately $4500 total. A little more with the stand as and $300 Yamaha CD player. And wires. 5k or so.
Was at the Florida audio Expo last weekend. Systems from 10k to 500k +. Some I had to leave the room sounded not so good. Some sounded really good but for the price they should have. Lol
But listening to Ella Fitzgerald singing These Foolish Things sounds great on any of my equipment. Close your eyes sit back and enjoy. Can enjoy at $300 or $300k. IMHO
I really enjoy your channel and common sense approach to this crazy hobby.
Thanks
Thank you so much!
Yeah I missed this show also... Dang baby shower again.
I am troubled by pseudoscience which sells cables for tens of thousands of dollars, such as the claim skin effect must be corrected for in speaker cables, insulation storing static electricity and releasing in into the wire, keeping cables off the floor etc. Skin effect of a typical 8 gauge wire in series with 4 or 8 Ohm speakers loses only a percent of a dB over DC at 20 kHz. That is why I make most of my own amplifiers and cables. A $350,000 amplifier can be built for less than $1500 worth of close to the same parts. Tuition, if it were not waived in graduate school, in which the theory can be learned to design it yourself with a little application, costs less than what you have to pay to get nothing better, and it helps you to call the bluff of "high end" cable manufacturers and calculate whether what they claim adds up.
As a petrol head as well as an audiophile, you could be talking about motor journalism.
What I think is vastly different then and now is physical access to sample products. When I first started obsessing over cassette decks in the 80's, I'd first look over Stereo Review (and their annual cassette deck line up) to find qualifiers in my budget. I then had several chain stores and hi-fi boutiques that each covered a range of different brands on display. "A kicking of tires" of sorts. Some travelling, but I got to sample the performance in-store (most didn't let you sample at home in my area, and still don't).
Today, most of the Audio boutiques have shut down, leaving the Best Buy's of the world filling in where they can. That, and on-line purchasing offering no initial impressions aside what is offered by TH-cam reviewers.
As pointed out, nothing has changed in one sense. Information and reviews are readily accessible, and more methods of distribution making more product readily available. It's the sampling process that has deteriorated requiring more weight on reviewer opinion. Naturally, access to demo products may vary depending where you live.
Some others here have said it and I will repeat it. This is easily the best time in history to be into audio. Never has so much great equipment been available at such affordable prices. Nope, you're not going to get Wilson Chronosonic or Gobel Divin levels of scale, dynamics, detail and realism for under a couple of grand but then the vast majority of people back in the so called golden age of audio couldn't afford the trophy systems of that time either. The difference is that they couldn't go out and get for literally one or two percent the cost of some of these high end speakers, not including the associated equipment, a entire system that embodies most of the same attributes of the aspirational models. Now, having said that, maybe it's just me but reviews, whether online or in print, are nothing more than introductions to gear I may not have heard of or may not have given any credence to before. But nobody is making me or anyone else go out and buy anything after reading the review. In any case, I don't think there are nearly as many lost sheep in need of saving from the audio wilderness as people in online audio forums like to believe. But hey, if someone does go out and buys a speaker he or she likes based on a review that you don't think is the best they could have purchased for the money, well guess what? That's just your opinion. It's not a fact no matter how strong you believe it. In the US at least almost every piece of gear that retails for, say, less than three grand can be found online with a return policy, at a store with a return policy or at a serious hi-fi dealer who often also has either return policies or store credit allowances. These stores are usually within a four hour drive of most anywhere in the country save for remote regions of Texas, Alaska, Montana or Wyoming. Unfortunately, if you live in the boonies it's still your responsibility to choose wisely. If Andrew, Steve, Zeos, Sean, Kal, John, Peter, and Julie all agree that the new Awesome Audio 300 is the best speaker under twenty thousand they've ever heard that doesn't mean you'll like it. I'm assuming (dangerous, I know) that we're all adults here. We have choices. Reviewers do not decide for us. It's our money, not theirs. It's our ears, not theirs. Which means, it's our choice to make and our fault if we buy something without hearing it and then hate it and have no way to return it. Reviews, no matter how experienced the reviewer, are nothing more than someone's opinion. You know, the thing we all seem to have when it comes to someone else's choice but for some reason can't settle on when making a choice for ourselves.
I ran across your channel a few months ago while researching stereo equipment for my new place. Recently divorced(my wife said I had a problem with too much stereo equipment) I was looking to upgrade my old system and came across a review you did. I found you informative, honest and entertaining I watched a couple more and subscribed. I do hope you can maintain your channel as I watch it even when I’m not shopping for new speakers etc. 🔊
As a purchaser of my first serious system in the late 70s …today is waaaaaay better..if you can’t find what fits your budget or music interest, you can’t blame the market…I do on the other hand miss going down to my local CMC stereo shop and listening to the new Advent or AR speakers
There has been one disturbing trend among the on line viewers, especially on youtube. Folks, especially those of the younger generation who grew up with youtube, wish to make all of their judgments about hifi while sitting and surfing the net, and they will audition products by listening to them through their home desktop system. This is especially problematic when auditioning speakers, since they are listening to a recording of a speaker system that is being played back through their system. Worst part of this scenario is that many folks don't grasp the problem of this. I fear the day when the brick and mortar hifi shops all close since they cannot compete with on line sales. No longer will we be able to go to the store and actually hear in the live a component or speakers.
THIS IS MY BIGGEST PET PEEVE WITH RESPECT TO TH-cam. Thank you for understanding. Thank you for realizing (like many do) that a speaker test via TH-cam is worse than pointless. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews As a young-ish person, I enjoy demos not because they show the actual qualities of a speaker but because I get to hear what the reviewer is experiencing that makes the product so good. In the same way our generation watches people play video games. It's not because we think it will be the same as actually playing the games but because hearing someone react realistically to a product helps me gauge exactly what is interesting in the moment. It's all of sudden the speaker is real because I see someone actually using it. It makes much more tangible in the same way a video does over a magazine. That said I HATE A/B test videos because they are super un-useful.
But you're not experiencing what I'm hearing, you may be experiencing my reaction -which is different -but you're never "hearing" what I'm hearing. Is that fair? Appreciate your comment.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews The point of sound demos is so you can compare different products, not so you can judge their quality. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I've never made a significant audio purchase just from a TH-cam video, a TH-cam video has however given me a good idea of what to look for when listening in person, the only exception being when a favorable return policy and widely noticed as good. I'd also like to point out I've purchases maybe 20 audio items just from watching online reviews, I'd say 80% of them I kept, thanks to amazons good return policy I was able to return the ones I did not like, I think in some ways this is actually better then listening in store as I get more time, get to listen to what I want too listen to, and am in private. I think so long as you compare your preferences to the reviewers and make sure they line up fairly well, and listening to multiple reviews on the product, it is not a huge issue. At least not anyone that I know personally.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Yes, wrong choice of words. I should've said seeing the person react. It's like seeing someone review wine (I've never done this nor do I wish to) Seeing the person sip the wine and describe the feeling in realtime is more entertaining than seeing someone just talk about the flavor profile. Now, I'm not saying demos should replace a more analytical review like yours. In fact, if I had to choose I'd rather have your style so there's a more coherent thought at the end. I'm just saying there's a real visceral feeling of watching other humans feel emotions in the moment that is enjoyable. It reminds me why I keep listening.
I think the big thing that has changed is that there are less places to go and actually listen to audio gear than there used to be. I feel more dependent on reviewers.
I absolutely agree with you. I remember in 90’s there were many shops with listening room where you could listen different gears with different combinations. For example Marantz had a beautiful sales center in Athens where I purchased my first Marantz CD player and Amplifier ( CD-80 and PM-80 ). As I wasn’t sure what I wanted so I had an audition for about 2 hours before I decided what I wanted. Those good old days when we could listen before we purchased our gears and hats off to those sales persons who had patience and knowledge of the products they were selling. I got all those attention even if I was only 21, these days no sales person would give a shit about a 21 years old young man in a hi-end shop like that. I miss those good old days.
Ahhh the truth :( It's hard to make a decesion on things you've actually never experienced... I wish there were shops here in dallas where you could preview hi-fi equipment and audio..
Yes, I bought Klipsch kg2s in an audio listening room in a Pittsburgh area shop, the Listening Post, back in ‘88. And - they did not sell TVs. Those were the days. Those shops now are long gone. Where does one go to compare? How does one compare? While there were snooty shops, there also were those like the one I went to, were employees cared. They wanted to introduce you to high-end audio.
My humble old opinion. I believe that you have missed the critical point of the question. Music & therefore HiFi is an experienced phenomenon. Critical opinion is derived from direct experience. With fewer opportunities to experience HiFi in person the ability to learn from comparisons is lost. A very serious problem for the entire community. I have heard "good enough" way too many times from listeners of all ages and stripes over the last decade or so.
Very sad for all the lost experiences to be had as you grow your system and your appreciation of the improvements in higher fidelity.
Francis Devlin
Yep, I was a magazine reader and now a TH-cam watcher. Same dance, different tune. My preference was Stereo Review/Sound & Vision, which I'm happy still exists online. I never read much Absolute Sound but I remember picking up a few issues of their sister publication, The Perfect Vision. They made me laugh because they would review six-figure home theater systems, and in the movies section would be reviewing monaural French films on LaserDisc, even after DVD had been around a while. I'm sure they sounded great coming out of a $10,000 center speaker.
I have been in this hobby for about 45 years, and 2 things have become substantially more difficult than they were 30+ years ago, finding a brick and mortar dealer at which to demo gear, and actually buying gear with poor sound quality. There are fewer dealers presumably because of the prevalence of alternative channels for such purchases, and the latter change is just because of the general increase in sq per $ in the audio world. Maybe I am deluded, but it seems to me that the cost of good sound has gone way, way down, and I very rarely hear bad gear anymore. Taste is still taste and therefor individual, but I have a power amp, preamp, dac/headphone amp, and speakers the total cost of which was just over $1k. This system, to my ears, sounds at least as good if not better than systems that cost $3-5k in 1990, in 1990 dollars. No, The Sensible Sound doesn't exist anymore, but when it comes to sound, as Carly Simon said, these are the good old days.
“Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be”........😁
Also another thing is from that question it sounds like they are putting down current audiophiles which is a little strange for any niche area or life. Do you want the community to grow or do you just want the community to stay the same and then the niche die. Also what's considered technology has changed so much in terms of you can get uhhhhhhmazing audio now for normal people. You can get good enough that you will ever truly need for a cost effective price.
Things have changed due to the fact that there are less stores to audition products now than there were 20 or 30 years ago ..Now we research on you tube and then what take a chance and buy on line, no audition. Therefore the customer is purely purchasing a product on the say so of a particular review and not being able to confirm suitability for their actual needs. Progress ?
Some manufacturers do offer trial at home with a no question return policy, even as far as collecting it from you at their cost. But even for a month and having a couple of expensive systems in for comparison may leave you even more confused. Compared to early days of hi-fi there are a hundred times as many products and more at any price range and a lot at levels that are only possible to buy if you are in the top 10% of income levels. With so many models it is even harder to find a dealer that has more than one product from any short list you may come up with.
I first got involved in audio in 1979. It was a separates system all made by Akai ... I think it was called the Akai Pro 101 all screwed into a Studio styled rack - all jet black. It looked a lot better than it sounded but at the time (being a teenager) I thought it was incredible.
The HiFi bug bit and I started buying HiFi magazines - many are still in publication. Like you, I collected years worth, and over that time I saved and bought many amazing systems. The very shop I bought most of my equipment from, I ended up working for (Sevenoaks HiFi) ... My ears became very good at listening and hearing the differences between products. This became a skill, and in 1989 it got me a job as a trainee sound engineer in a small London commercial recording studio. Over a period of 12yrs I got to meet and hear many well known artists. I also learnt about commercial quality recordings and specialist audiophile recording techniques. Being involved this way changed my whole attitude and approach to HiFi ... The black art of high end mix & match lost its elusive charm and having access to many master recordings allowed me to make comparisons. I also joined this fascinating world during the analogue/digital revolution (which was a game changer)
Today I own a small quality project studio. I have a side interest/passion for cinematic quality visuals too, but with cameras and all the kit needed costing 100k plus for basics, it's a limited infection lol.
Audio is a remaining passion, and audiophile recording techniques and available technology has improved dramatically.
I hoard equipment ... I own classic mic's that cost thousands 30yrs ago I also own many modern mic's costing considerably less that outperform.
On the other hand, I still own a 1980's Krell power Amp that still sounds incredible, yet it's hardly used. Its power hungry and the lights dim every time its switched on lol.
My home system is a high end mid-field active system. I enjoy it greatly and will often test various studio recordings (stereo masters) on it.
Things have improved greatly over the years, but commercially available recordings are far from what's possible. People might hate me for saying this, but a genuine (masterfully recorded) high end digital audiophile recording, will technically outperform an analog recording, but as with everything, some will love it, some will not as its all subjective.
Recording studios and HiFi have an awful lot in common with Willy Wonka.
Where do high end audio systems start? At what price?
Andy, when I was growing up in the 70's in New York, I walked into a stereo dealership and on they would have soundrooms with Technics, Sansui, Sony, Pioneer, Marantz on the shelves, connected to AR, KLH, Wharfedale, etc. speakers, to compare each system of your interest. Those days are over. Today, you just choose a make and model you may be interested in, order it over the Internet and call it a day!
There's still plenty hifi stores right? I would never buy something I haven't listened to
Started watching your podcasts when you were doing The Home Cinema Experience. Let the ride continue.
“Do you wanna read or do you wanna watch something” prophetic words indeed.
Well it was TH-cam videos that turned me onto the Klipsch 600M’s. Indeed I concur. Fabulous.
I totally feel your reply/sentiment on the given matter on this episode. I am practically new to the hobby, but the analogy is the same for us DJs.... that whole vinyl vs. digital topic. At the end of the day, it is how you play the cards that you're dealt with...hence there are no absolute right or wrong on this hobby. Just enjoy it as you go....taste is definitely subjective.
I think the one thing that has changed is you can sample speakers without leaving home but your still hearing them through your ol croppy speakers are whatever you have.
I just watched this video, and I want to tell you and Kristy how much I appreciate and enjoy your channel. I’ve been in the hobby for more years than you are old, and then quite a few more. It is so good to be able to share the benefits of decades of accumulated knowledge we all tend to acquire over time. We all learn from each other, and it is a never ending dance.
Almost everyone is, in reality, in Customer Service, even in our non-work lives. The frictions we encounter, even when doing our best and with our best intentions, can gradually wear us down. I hope you are buoyed enough by your successes, and by the love and support in your private lives and relationships, to be able to enjoy your work for many, many years to come. And I hope that, if you ever retire, you will be able to know how much knowledge and pleasure you have shared, even though you won’t be completely aware of everyone you’ve touched.
Couldn’t have said it any better! +1 Thank you for all the content and how authentic y’all are about it :)
It feels like y‘all are my unofficial-long-distance mentors as I’m a noob to the space :)
Keep up the great work for as long as it makes you happy!
Audio equipment reviews haven't changed fundamentally because people haven't changed.
Going to watch the video that pointed me here now.
Same.
I appreciate the level of thought that you put into your videos. Thank you for your quality content.
Thank you, that means a lot to me. Appreciate you watching and subscribing!
I just really love your passion for audio. It seems more authentic today than yesteryear . We all can share our experiences. Bad products are revealed early and it has pushed manufacturers to make better products cheaper. Thank you for your time making videos
my opinion doesn't really matter but Im 55 yrs young and I agree 100% with what you said here today!!
How do I shop for audio gear when there are so few audio stores around?
This is true for literally every market and every community.
The problem with magazines is they focus on trophy gear. The argument that the technology from trophy gear is cutting edge and will eventually filter down to budget items gets exposed as false once you learn enough about the industry. With cars you get things like dual clutch transmissions starting in cars that cost as much as a house and filtering downward in price over time. The technology in a speaker that costs as much as a house is not better than the technology in a $2k speaker. It's just trophy gear bought to show off to visitors.
Trophy gear is such a great way to put it, and you see it in soooo many hobbies. A lot of the time they don't seem to even know why their trophy gear is good if you were to ask them, they just know other people said it was.
Hello Andrew. I’ve been following this channel for some time. You are sincere and I enjoy and learn from what you do. My wife and I also appreciate the fact there is a female viewpoint and often wished there were more female reviewers as they can be just as good a critical listener as males. Who knows, It may also increase the popularity of hi-end audio. It’s really good to be able to see the sincerity and enthusiasm in the reviewers. Most viewers will workout who is credible or not. I certainly prefer the video reviews over the printed media. Generally you will get a greater look at the hifi equipment. You also often get a clearer view and understanding of the hifi equipment and it’s features. And your viewpoints on this particular video ring true enough for me. Thank you 😎👍
I'm later to this party, too, just catching this and -- yes. Agreed. I know, I know, I say this all the time that we are in the best era of audio ever. This channel is an example of this. It's great to have so many voices, such a variety of voices, more than we've in the days of print, to check in with for opinion, agreement or disagreement, and on the gear side, we do have more access to more gear offer more value for money than ever. Rejoice! We have Andrew (and other good reviewers, too), and the best audio ever.
This may be a golden age of hifi. Over 40 years of outstanding used gear on the market. The number of excellent US hifi companies The wealth of really high end gear. The really good entry level gear. Lots of vinyl.
Very nice and reasoned video. Keep up the quality and hard work.
Thank you, and thank you for watching!
I think the big change is the proliferation of sources of opinion and brands. There's an entire market's worth of brands that have come and gone in less than ten years, ones with deep penetration into the mindshare of the most influential review sites. When stuff really started to move out of print onto the web a few web based review sites popped up, and the majority of the action was on forums, but forums are relatively quiet these days, and many of the ones I used to frequent require the Wayback Machine just to see. Makes me sound old, but I'm really not; the internet has been transformed by youtube.
Dealers become SALES professionals but not hifi professionals and that is part of the problem
I am not in the HiFi audio realm, never have been. Never seen your channel before TH-cam suggested it right now. But that review is spot on and applicable to so many other industries too.
I have a bit of experience in the higher end car audio realm (focal, dynaudio, seas, rainbow, etc), so i have been through many of the same steps as any HiFi enthusiastic or audiophile. And the issue applies to car audio for sure. The key part that you basically glossed over is the fact that there's no more brick and mortar shops. I used to know of 4 car audio shops in a 5 mile radius where i could go test out the latest Nakamichi or Eclipse deck. None near me carried anything as high end as mcintosh, but they sure as hell beat best buy! Now there's nothing. I don't know of a single car audio shop anywhere near me. And as any audiophile knows, you need to hear the equipment in person! Technology has advanced for the better, but business is business in the end. Models change and profit margins always want to expand. So it's critical that you hear the equipment, or at least be rich enough to buy it all as a 'trial' first. I stepped out of my element a year or so ago to find myself some entry-level HiFi cans, but there's not a shop around carrying byerdynamic, Sony studio, or whatever other quality brand. So i bought 2 sets on Amazon with the intention of returning 1, but I actually ended up keeping both lol. It's annoying to have to do that though, and sometimes impossible.
Where the informational aspect comes into play is the massive oversaturation of "information". Its a tiny bit of good quality information scattered throughout 100x more junk. You admitted yourself that this is how you make money, and no doubt magazines did the same. But writing and printing articles takes time, takes copyediting, takes various stages of review. Nowadays any Joe Shmoe can take their cellphone and record "expert reviews" of any given product, and they actually do it all the time. And if they're cool enough, they get a mass following followed by ad revenue. You don't even need to be competent anymore, you just need to pretend like you are. So whether it's HiFi audio, car audio, bodybuilding, plumbing, or whatever else, there's a plethora of crap to sift through online to find the real meat. With online forums dying out now, it's basically just TH-cam and other 5 second sources of information that's 99% garbage. It's frustrating, it's irritating, and it's a LOT of work to make sense of it when you're new to a topic.
So yes, i definitely share that guys views and concerns.
One of the biggest problems with TH-cam reviews is the algorithm that fires a dozen other “similar” videos into your feed. So once you have watched one review, half a dozen others will pop up, cementing the opinion that the item is worthy.
That is how I stumbled on this video. It’s the same way Amazon works, it’s the same way a lot of online content works. Even some news channels only feed you the news that they think you want!
I only watch online reviews to LOOK at hifi gear, not listen to reviews. The only reviewer should be your own ears. If you can’t hear any difference, do you really need that £1000 DAC?
You're so right Andrew.
Being on this business for 25 years, i couldn't agree with you more.
Thanks! (and thank you for subscribing!)
While the media side is the same, the availability of local dealers has definitely changed. That has taken away the option to hear for yourself
Hi Andrew I appreciate the content , your honesty and your down to earth mentality. Keep up the good work.
Thank you!
You’re not really old enough to remember the days when print magazines were king. You didn’t even mention High-Fidelity and Stereo Review.
I'm sorry, I didn't want to belabor the point, but I have heard of and owned several copies of each from back in the day. Appreciate you watching and subscribing!
Andrew, did you subscribe to Home Theater and Sound & Vision? I was a big fan of those.
yep, sure did.
Great Analysis and I used to collect all of the magazines that’s out mentioned and use them as reference material as well. It was so much fun to get that magazine issue in the mail because the previous book told and showed you what was coming that next month. People were accusing reviewers of being hacks in the comments section of the magazines and the editors would respond, people would threaten to cancel their subscription and now TH-cam is subscription based, but you can check out content without subscribing, but you could also do that by going to libraries and bookstores and sitting down and reading the magazines. I agree nothing has changed, but your prospective of what has changed. The industry has evolved since the internet and that evolution is TH-cam, but I still enjoy and subscribe to my print magazines, but the list is smaller and smaller.
You can add to the "problem" that many manufacturers are moving to a direct sale only type of model, Emotiva, Schiit, and others come to mind. These companies make great products, but you can't really experience them anywhere.. They do often offer a "trial in your home" period, which can be in some ways better because it removes the "room" from the equation, but it creates a fair amount of hassle, especially if you want to A/B some equipment. Many people dont want to purchased 5 pair of speakers listen to them all and then return the 4 that they didnt like, which is what would be required to find what is truly the "best" based on your personal taste... Additionally from when I used to sell car audio equipment I can think of many times where someone would come into the shop thinking they wanted a particular brand or model only for me to show them something they never even considered and them loving it. This is a tricky industry to end up with the right product without wasting significant time and money chasing the last 10% in performance.
Hi Andrew, as a journalist I absolutely agree with you. There's much more stuff available now, but the major change has been the way it's promoted, marketed and delivered. However, if the guy who sent you the email that turned into the subject of your video blog was trying to make another important point: in all of this technological change and competition for “audiences”, are we in danger of losing totally independent reviewers? A question of trust, I guess. But when a reviewer raves about a particular product, is he or she as “independent” as you'd like them to be, or have they been offered a kickback from the manufacturer? Decent kit is not exactly cheap, so customers need to know they can trust the reviewer. It's important for the reviewers reputation, and our trust. Thanks for your videos. Always interesting. Cheers, John
John - What constitutes a "totally independent reviewer"? TH-cam has very strict rules when it comes to making it clear to the viewer that a video has been sponsored so it should be easier for the viewer to know if a review has received a "kickback". In the past with print, brands were compensating the publication in terms of advertising dollars, dollars that support the editorial staff. Today, with TH-cam, the vast majority of brands do not sponsor content. They just expect the review to be done and hopefully, done competently enough so that it drives traffic to their product.
This idea of independence and trust is so subjective and frankly, changes with the wind. I find it interesting that there is a belief that someone writing for a print publication is ethical, trustworthy and independent but the TH-camr isn't. In my opinion, these companies SHOULD be paying for content. Most people have no idea the time and cost that goes into the production of the videos Andrew produces. Adsense and affiliate links don't amount to what people think it does. But if a reviewer manages to get sponsored (good for him/her if they do!), the backlash that they receive suggesting that they have "sold out" or they are no longer trustworthy becomes a big issue - an unfair one for sure.
Kristi Wright I absolutely agree with you, and I wasn't singling out TH-camrs. For the record, I think Andrew does a good job. But elsewhere, online and in print, clever journalists can find clever and subtle ways of guiding you towards particular products. Not explicit ads, just clever language. As a journalist, I'm aware of this practice, but not everyone might be. And when we're discussing best sound, speakers and amps, it is so subjective.A minefield!
Great video, informative and to the point. I do feel like we purchase differently than I did when I purchased my first system in 1977 from one of the local audio shops. Walk in listen and choose by narrowing down my own preferences in the available products. I think in this regard it is more difficult to choose today. More companys to choose from with less "hands on" personal exposure for us. Thank you for your videos, job well done. keep up the good work.
Yes! You can Collect TH-cam Videos, creating catalogs by category. Especially for those of us that can capture images and videos permanently.
Excellent question and well thought out response. I agree with both!!!
However, I do think the issue is rather more complex and so whilst it can be fairly argued the status quo hasn't really changed, this is overly simplistic.
As bricks and mortar stores continue to diminish, the way consumers buy their goods need to be considered.
As mentioned, in days gone by consumers relied solely on a few magazines and the ability to audition/talk with a salesperson.
Today, there's a multitude of sources consumers get their information - TH-cam being one only. Further, the sheer volume of reviewers taking the entire suite available has increased dramatically. Moreover, it seems consumers want all the information immediately.
I have to agree with the questioner that certain products get reviewed to death. I'm not going to discuss the reasons, they've been spoken about on various channels (and perhaps here) many times. And yes, Andrew touched on some of those (far from all) in this video.
Nowadays, 'entry' level gear (for want of another word), is actually very good. Think of speakers sub $500 or dacs sub $300. There's choice in the marketplace and sound quality had never been so good. Then of course there's been the rise of headphones (including iem's), streaming in all its variants all at 'entry' level prices offering great sound.
This has led to a new type of consumer. Not the kind that would have read stereophile, collected it, looked back over it months later & perhaps dreamed of certain pieces of gear.
TH-camrs, many without a background in audio can nowadays start their own channels and review especially this entry level gear. Typically a company is willing to give out a loaner in this price bracket & to those established reviewers 'loaner' perhaps becomes a 'keeper' etc.
So, I think today more than ever, one needs to be very careful with what they see, especially given the opportunity to audition has been greatly reduced.
However, as per any consumer goods purchased there's always an element of research that's required, rather than merely listening to a few reviews and taking those as gospel.
However, in this information age, the ability to reach out to somebody for advice has never been easier. Just be aware that's it's not that easy for Andrew (as an example), to recommend a certain product for you as he doesn't know you, even though you think you may know him. 😆
He may be able to say something like..."steer clear of that amp, I know it has design flaws or dubious build quality), but he can't really say you'd love 'such & such' amp. He can of course speak about his love for certain Crown amps & that's great. However, it doesn't necessarily mean you will find that love in your system. There's just way more to it and still nothing will beat a home demo.
Think I've digressed....nvm...all food for though.
Cheers 🎶🎶🎶
I absolutely agree and love this thoughtful response. Thank you!
I think you have a kind of misundertand hes question.
When you talk about the wilson speakers that went on ´tour´ a round to each magazine to test and talk about ,
im just say as you , ´yes back in time in magazines and today they doing this´
But i don´t think that was what he was thinking about.
Today the big difference is that those internet ´influencers´ ( let´s call them that and NOT revievers ) they have deals
with those companies to ONLY make positive revievs , otherwise .... Job lost with that company.
This have , combined with a 99 percent online sales structure in the market removed most of the old ways of choosing a product.
Let me explain with an example...
I play electric guitar and have my own studio.
Back in time when people like me want a guitar they went to guitar shop/centers...
Today they watch youtube and such and order online.
What is the difference ? good or bad ?
I personally will say the last is bad bad bad...
Why ?
Because buying a guitar without having it in your hand and TRYING it out remove your control with what you get.
Same with loudspeakers and any other kind of HiFi / Studio gear ect.
I would personally NEVER buy anything without having the abillity to Try , Test , Touch and inspect it by myself .
Again an example from my world as a guitar player.
You have two identically electric guitars same model same brand ect , two identically...
BUT , when you have them in your hand and actually play on them they WILL fell and in some cases even sound different.
So what do you get by just order online ? ,,,, Lack of that control with the product and choice to choose THAT particular one guitar.
In HiFi / Studio world You NEED to have the abillity to listen to and try out the actual model you are looking at.
Best is of course to try out several different ones and that way finding the one that is perfect for your use.
Today more and more hit the market and it´s expanding as you correctly say.
But .
Also a lot lot of kind of crap ware is actually taking up most space.
And they can easier sell lower quality as if it was better quality because of those many ´influencers´.
Back in time when the magazines made reviews it was a bit harder to do that , because to buy the actual product you have to go to the shop.
And , when there they demonstrated it for you so you end up listen to it first.
Not like today.......
Thanks for a very interesting and well thought out review. I really appreciate all the time and effort that you and all the other y tube presenters put in to your productuons for our benefit
Wonderful presentation, but I prefer to read, and study about a hi fi audio product, or component before I decide to make a purchase. Then we paid for a magazine, or went to borrow it from the library - which I still do - now we pay for an Internet connection; so I get what you are saying, Andrew.
When is the review for those Polk Audio L800’s that you have in the background coming out?
Likely this week!
It's rare to read a bad review for high end hifi equipment. If a reviewer pans the equipment, you can bet the reviewer won't get to review next years equipment and the magazine in which it was published won't get any advertising from that brand. I have had favorable opinions of hifi gear from reviews and ads but once I heard them no longer held that opinion. It's always best to hear something before buying but I've been guilty of buying something by what I read.
There once was a time that all of audio information came from Stereo Review & High Fidelity magazine.... (and all amps sounded the same, so they said)..... and then in the late-80's, Audio and Stereophile took over and helped change high end audio. I'm sure there were people that didn't like the way things were changing.... along with CDs replacing LPs. I agree..... the only thing that the same is CHANGE!! I mostly miss buttons & knobs. The current industry seems to HATE putting knobs & switches on our gear.... and they claim that's what's more popular.
The ones that eliminate tone and loudness contour controls will never get a sale from me. These are useful when you have to listen at lower levels.
While I agree with your point about prolific reviews then and now, I think the one point from the comment that I agree with is the fact that there are fewer "brick and mortar" stores to actually go hear new gear. The nearest thing to a "good" 80s/90s era hifi store nowadays is the Magnolia section of a Best Buy. While they do manage to carry a handful of mid-/high-end brands, they're still quite limited to what's available to demo. So as the commenter eluded to, we have to put more trust in the online reviewers to decide what we want to try. Thankfully, Amazon (and others) have decent return policies...
Also Stereo Review High Fidelity Audio and the ones mentioned Audio is the same it’s the environment has There were regional stores Tech Hifi Pacific Stereo and smaller mom and pop Now you have Best Buy or stores that you have to be a millionaire It’s what every company is facing high overhead and leading the charge is real estate then salaries health insurance and utilities and fuel have soared
Now also hurting it kids today download listen to music on phones with headphones 2 channel seams to be nonexistent but not to me and this channel
Back in early 80s I worked for Tech Hifi business office/warehouse and was amazed every time I went into that warehouse It’s like I was in heaven
The stores packaged stereo system of what you afford or listen to different equipment and make own decisions Then you could trade up or sell your old system to a friend or in Want ad
So it be impossible for a store to set up place with listening rooms give advice and the customer buys it on internet But it is nice people like Andrew give honest reviews to guide to a purchase
He gave a review of Pioneer Sx 450 which was my first good systems along with numerous others along the way I still have an sx 980 with used Heresy l that sound amazing
Interesting. As someone who used to read magazines, buy hifi , and grew up with the flashing lights of the 70’s hifi from names like Akai, Sansui and Kenwood, I agree with the nostalgic sentiment. We miss the new technology of sigma drives with 3 speaker cables, and the updated chemical mixtures of the magnetic coatings of the latest cassette tapes of then. All this experimentation was refreshing and creates for me, the interest and pursuit. Hifi nuts were putting toilet rolls behind speakers to stop them minutely rocking, or replacing the wooden baffles with concrete. But now with reviews all being in that viewer wary “+ 10 minutes “ length where the same is repeated in numerous different ways for time filler, the nostalgia created now is to quickly turn the page or skip ahead to find the meaningful parts. The meaning parts are fewer, because the you tube magazines review the same products at the same time from the same memo. I dont know. Maybe there is room for someone to break out and stick out from the crowd. Im rolling with you at the moment Andrew. I like the taste of candidness now and then. cheers.
There were untrustworthy magazines back in the day such as Stereo Review, a magazine that gave almost everything a good review. The pictures were nice though.
You have to remember that it is pretty much a waste of time to publish reviews of poorly made equipment. They likely tested such models, but simply did not publish to results. I don't remember if the magazines were fooled by the Bose 901 series, but I know a few high end audio shops that were mesmerized by the "spatial" quality of the sound. Of course 18 different arrival times from the speakers made it feel like you were in a bigger room. But the overall performance was mediocre.
Yep. I’m old enough that have had print magazine subscriptions to Stereo Review and High Fidelity. I still remember reading the reviews that led me to visit stores, listen to, and buy my Yamaha receiver and Paradigm speakers. Now as I shop for new speakers and integrated amps I simply do it by reading the on-line publications and watching TH-cam channels like this one. The major change has been there are no longer many stores near me where I can listen to the products I see reviewed. So in a way I now have to invest more time reading and watching reviews, and getting to know the reviewers likes and dislikes, so that I can make a more informed choice. I know most on-line retailers now include a trial period, but many still require the customer to cover return shipping costs. And even if they cover the cost, it’s still a pain to box up and send equipment back.
Once again, another great video that provides insight and clarity into what really goes on behind the scenes of an audiophile reviewer...Keep up the Great work, and stay encouraged.
Thanks and thank you for subscribing!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews No doubt!!
There absolutely is an Audio Reviewing school. It's called SCHOOL. It starts by learning some science and electrical engineering so you can learn to throw away all of the snake oil crap, which is a big part of this business, and then learning some journalism. You can also benefit from sitting in on some recording sessions to see what really happens in this process, and to see that studios... THE STUDIOS RECORDING YOUR RECORDS... aren't filled with snake oil cables and other crap that doesn't add anything to the experience.
We all subscribed to Stereo Review back in the 70's, as well as having stores to test-drive everything.
We bought Marantz, Pioneer, Teac, Nakamichi, Altec, and JBL.
PS: It all LOOKED cool too!
Now, it seems like the gear is the end-game.....not the music.....Sad...
These days, I buy McIntosh, or buy Luxman and JBL-Synthesis then crank it up.....
Cool gear, great music....not complicated.
Same here, plus Uher , Harman Kardon, and Wollensak reel to reel tape recorders.
Sony 1080 Reciver look in What hifi hall of fame are actually Done it say Xperia1 phone stream to that Reciver sound are in a Own level in Never heard before are Actually Very few actually Test that very hard find anyone actually Test streaming sound from all phones are Very big difference in Quality Sony have are not other have today And have friends have other phones they not get this big sound out that Xperia 1 and forward give out and to real Speaker from Chromecast so not Bluetooth speakers Stream or cast look gaming movie music big difference from different phones ......
Do you think media samples that made the reviewer rounds may have been better engineered, subtly upgradad compared to production ones?
Absolutely NOT. To the best of my knowledge -at least in hi-fi -this is a myth. Now, TV companies have been caught doing picture adjustments to their TVs before sending them out (NOT using better panels but sort of pre-calibrating), but I always do a full factory reset on every component that comes through the door even if it appears to be factory sealed. A lot of times when a review unit comes in, the product is still logged in as another reviewer, or is looking for another home wi-fi network, so a full refresh is mandatory.
I don't about the current reviewers, but some of the magazine reviewers were corrupt. I knew a marketing guy who carried around Rolex watches to bribe reviewers. And it worked for him.
Well, I don't have one of those nor have I ever been offered a Rolex. Actually, I've never been offered anything come to think of it. You mean to tell me I could've had a Rolex!? 😉
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I'm leaving you if you don't get a Rolex. Just FYI.
@@KristiWright How about an Omega???
The big difference is that most of the purchases are done exclusively based on reviews. Wether these reviews are TH-cam or written. People buy online gear they never listened to.
20 years ago, they went to a brick and mortar hifi shop, wanting to listen to the gear the magazines were raving about. In there were people able to give a personalized advice, taking care of the customer, asking about what gear he already owned and trying to meet the customers needs and/or desires.
The client then, could make a much more informed decision than the online buyer can nowadays
I used to read STEREO REVIEW, but not since 1995.
One remark you said was print was not a higher standard. I didn't take that perspective from your viewer's comment. What I "heard" was magazines drove traffic into retail stores where someone would, hopefully professionally, consult with the person on making a good choice based on many variables. Your viewer feels today's consumers are not being served because it seems everyone (I use the term broadly)reviews the same products and they all recommend the same products. And I assume his next point would be is are we creating audiophiles when they are sold something that really won't work with there existing equipment or room. Or are we creating more Spotify users?
But TH-cam drives traffic to online stores or to the manufacturer directly (who may conversely sell website direct) so it's still kind of the same. Only difference is, the showroom in many respects is now your own living room for many brands will let you live with a product for 30 or more days before you have to be sure-sure you want to keep it. As for the second part of your question, that is fodder for another video that I plan on doing.
High End audio is ABSOLUTELY different today. Nobody would buy a speaker on-line without hearing it. It is absolutely crazy to buy a speaker without hearing it. Sound demo's online is an absolute joke! Having the inability to hear a product before buying is like buying a car without knowing how it drives or fits. Buying speakers especially is dangerous without audition. You don't know what you haven't heard!
I don't fully agree since most serious dealers allow you to return your speakers if you aren't happy. To try out speakers in your own room, with your own equipment, is much better than trying them out in a dealer's showroom. Of course it's easier to figure out which speakers you want to audition at home if you can hear them somewhere else first, but most people never lived close enough to enough brick and mortar dealers to be able to listen to all their candidates anyway, so that issue was always there in some regard.
I don’t agree either. I bought some JBLs (4312G) without hearing them first.
@@Evil_Peter Well the thing is that most stereo equipment that isn't a flashing lights boom box or soundbar type system manufactured these days sounds pretty darn good, even the non "name brand" stuff has gotten a lot better, even brands like "Rockville", "pyle","Monoprice", "dayton audio,"SMSL", "Technical pro" etc have a set of bookshelf speakers, Floor-standers, Turntable or a stereo receiver or two that sounds nice enough to put together a 2 channel system that sounds pretty darn good. And you don't have a pretentious asshole dealer who won't let you plug in your "non audio snob brand" receiver to 4 pair s of speakers in the same price range that you intend to audition in order to make a purchase, hell I could end up liking them all and buying all 4 pairs, or at least 2 pairs, a center, a sub and your overpriced wires to boot. But since you were an asshole. You don't get my money.
As a Stereophile subscriber from 40 years ago, I concur.
I still subscribe to magazines. I like to keep this passion going. I've been involved with this hobby since the 70's.
Andrew…what is your opinion of the B&W 683s2 speakers?
As the previous poster mentioned, there is a lot more trust involved now a days. I'm 55 and grew up with the publications, read them, made a list of what interested me and then was able to go to one of many stereo shops in my area to hear them first hand. That isn't possible anymore for the majority of people, you can do the homework to a certain extent, but it comes down to how much you trust the reviewer now, that has a lot of weight to it more then ever, whether it be on You Tube or otherwise. And the notion of "What is the reviewer getting out of it" weighs heavy on a viewers mind when making a choice. At the end of the day your ears are your best "reviewer", but that's become a luxury. I've spent and wasted a lot of money to find out for myself if a certain piece was to my liking, good thing a lot of companies have great return policies, but the hassle involved with that process compared to what I remember from my teens, getting up on a Saturday and spending hours in a HiFi shop listening and comparing side by side, are a distant memory.
This I agree, is the big take-away from the initial post he's commenting on; the possibilities to actually hear before buying is more or less gone.
Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, but as someone approaching 50 myself, I wonder if quite a few people are remembering the HiFi shop a little too fondly. My issues with the HiFi shop is the quality of the listening experience in the shop compared to your home and not to mention that driving to and spending hours in a HiFi shop isn't exactly a hassle free experience. At the end of the day I think most of us can agree that nothing beats listening to the gear in its intended room to see if it fits your needs. Today many companies are offering trials in the home just as HiFi shops used to do back then. HiFi gear I think will always be a somewhat frustrating and potentially expensive experience and that's not likely to change. Personally, I didn't think listening to speakers in the shop and trusting them if it'd sound good in my home was much better than reading/watching reviews.
@@hpham72 Oh, I'm with ya. And your right, having whatever in the room it's going to play in is the best way to demo anything, while that might be missing from the HiFi shop experience, it does give you a good idea of the sounds "characteristics". These are all opinions and good conversation, I don't think there's a right or wrong here, I have a few peoples opinions I take note of, but that's more so because we all seem to like the same "sound". As we both mentioned, good thing companies have decent return policies or trial periods so you can audition the equipment on site.
Just found your channel. Really interesting stuff! It's really nice to hear a non-hype point of view nowadays. I look forward to browsing your videos and reading your opinions on things like headphones and IEMs.
I really do admire your professional etiquette on your videos (where the norm these days are casual)
10:30 It's easy to collect TH-cam videos, copy&paste the links to your document file. This way, it would be easier to collect the information than magazines, takes up less space (and the only space it takes up is cyberspace). Way to go, what a great idea! I wish I thought of it, wait, I did, but I'm kicking myself for not thinking of that before. Now I can have a music collection (pick videos with no adds). On a lot of long play music videos there are no adds (like 50% of doof videos). Thanks Andrew for making me wake up.
GOOD VIDEO. I'm of the opinion that the TH-cam and online reviewer today has to be more on their game as far as pointing out not only the good but also the bad in things that they review. I've been involved in many hobbies and learned a long time ago that magazine's just about NEVER gave a really bad review to something. The writer may have written that whatever it was they were reviewing was very well suited for "X" whatever "X" was. They never really came out and said something was bad. Their editors had a hand in that I'm sure. The other thing that I looked at was which company bought the most/biggest ad space in a magazine. I also know that back in the day at least some products that went to magazines for review were tested and made the best that they could be before ever leaving a factory. That may not have been in all products but I know it happened in the firearms industry and am sure it happened in photography as well.
You and the other TH-cam channels have done more to cut through the c**p in a short amount of time than in any previous era. Do your reviews make me want to spend money??? OH YEAH. Do you and the other reviewers give us all more info than the magazines of old? I believe on whole they do. Today's not a one stop shop for reviews anymore which I believe is a good thing overall. We the people that are buying gear just have to pay attention to more than one or two reviews anymore. GOOD STUFF KEEP EM COMING!
Interesting video as always, keep it up.
I have a few opinions to make on this subject. I would agree that the information hasn't changed but how we consume information has. I would also agree that how we purchase products has changed over the years. That said, 30 years ago I wasn't aware of audiophile magazines and audiophile equipment and as such if I wanted something to play music with I would go directly to a number of local retailers and buy what I could afford. These werent specialist retailers and sold what I would now consider to be entry level equipment but of varying levels of quality and features. However, while in the store I still had access to information concerning each product and was still able to make an informed choice to some degree.
These days the amount of retailers available for someone to walk into and buy equipment has decreased. While access to information has increased if someone just wants equipment to play a record on, and they don't do their research, the choice they have is limited. There is not the same number of local retailers available that sell hifi equipment and the products that are available are, in my opinion, inferior to what was available 30 years ago. There is no information in these stores regarding alternatives that would be a better purchase. There are better products available in specialist stores and at all price points, but you need to have done your research first to find out what these products are and where to get them.
I think that with the growth in the number of companies making audio gear, and more importantly, the frequency at which most of these companies introduce new models or upgrades, leads to information overload for consumers. Add to that the mushroom growth in the number of reviewers across new media channels (digital, TH-cam, etc), and I can see where the questioner is coming from.
Andrew, you didn’t address the simple point that people went to hiding stores to listen to speakers. I brought home 3 pair of speakers before I kept my first pair...
Audio magazine was my favorite.
For Myself,
It's not about the lack of publications (print/online) than it is about the very lack of places in which one can see and critically listen to the products reviewed.
During the 70s and 80s, New York City was full of audio stores. From low-end to high-end, you had extreme physical shopping choices. Yeah. The magazines did help. But the end result was YOU bopping around town to check out that gear.
Part of me feels that due to the above, many of us place too much stock on these online reviews. Some of these guys tend to come off like shills for the brands they are reviewing.
Maybe I'm being somewhat "Old School" in my opinion about buying audio gear these days. But I feel it was so much easier and FUN to go to practically every stereo store in this city back then and be discriminating. That option is gone now.
We're going to address this (likely) tomorrow. Appreciate you watching!
Herb Reichert from Stereophile is my favourite reviewer.
It is certainly different for "readers". We used to "buy" magazines for products information and reviews. Now, thanks to internet. It's "free" and there are more "magazines" that we could choose. The barriers of entry is much much lower today. Publishing magazines cost a lot more than making a youtube video. Anyone could do it if they want to become a "reviewer". Same problems that consumers are facing that the "reviewer" may have been "bought" by manufacturers. That's depend upon the marketing dollars that the brands are spending. The fundamental has not changed. One thing is certain for the consumers: Too much information is presenting to us and it's difficult to distinguish who we can trust.
Even if a reviewer was "bought" today on TH-cam there are several that very likely have a different review. With magazines although the reviewer may not have been bought the publisher had it in their power and best interest to spin reviews to not look bad for their bigger clients. The difference today is that there's not just a few publishers in the TH-cam space there's many.