@@metascrub285 yesss preach! Spidey is very strong against Ronan/Venom Goblin/Magneto, but the thing is those 3 are still more difficult for him than Ultron. Other heroes defeating weaker villains more easily but struggling more with the top villains is why Peter earns his spot for me
I think you give a lot of your perspective and I love this channel for the spiderman appreciation since he is my favorite too, I was hoping to find a content creator that just loved spidey as much as I do
Thanks so much Samuel! I really appreciate that 😁🙏 I started doing Spider-Man gameplays because i watched every Spider-Man playthrough on TH-cam at the time and wanted to see more content around him so i definitely feel that hahaha
I mostly agree with your ranking, especially with Cable. I have always find him quite powerful and didn't understood why most reviewers put him in B tier. Happy to not being alone on that hill...
I'm glad to hear I'm not alone too! The Cable train is coming haha. You and me will be the first on that wagon, I definitely see more and more people coming around to that idea
Most of them cannot make Cable work. I think people will be too focus on removing threat and doing his thing instead of thinking every side scheme as easy build up to his kit and board state.
@@Champion_Leon yea i think Cable is easy to play, but a little difficult to maximize because he has SO many different lines per turn. Choosing which side scheme to start, whether or not to thwart or play more side schemes and when to do it all can be complex at times
@@ghostsage6421 Being able to give everyone on the table a resource generator on turn 1 is the biggest tempo boost to start a game. It's worth it for everyone to help chip away at the player side schemes. I've played tons of Cable multiplayer games and can say he's very strong. I have a 2 player Cable game with Daring Lime on the channel too
I started playing two handed a few months ago after playing only true solo por a year and what I've realized is that all heroes basically become 1-2 tiers stronger. Being able to turn to alter-ego every other turn to heal and use alter-ego supports and being able to build a more focused deck completely changes some heroes. Also, tanking hits and healing becomes a viable strategy for a lot of heroes with high REC or with Downtime. I believe all heroes can beat all expert villains on two-handed play.
So true man. I realized that playing two handed Cable in Yellow and Wasp in Red. Man he lifted her up in the skies dealing insane amounts of damage while gunboating those side schemes and minions. I just crushed Ronan, VG and Magneto, like I was playing against Absorbing Man😮 It’s so satisfying hunting for those synergies between decks when you got 80 cards to play with.
@@milanmartinovic5064 yes, it's soo satisfying. It removes all limitations for deckbuilding and unlocks your hero's full potential(like you experienced with Wasp). And I really enjoy not being afraid of dying after every single villain action/encounter card or not having an answer. Suddenly, Galaxy's Most Wanted goes from impossible and stressful to manageable and enjoyable 🙏
Cable is an absolute monster, especially now that Gunboat Diplomacy exists. I also agree that Colossus is very strong and very fun...if you know how to pilot him. One of my favorites.
Awesome list and I love hearing some interesting hot takes. Only ones I disagree with you on are Wolverine, Domino, Storm, X-23, Vision, Agent Venom, and Gamora who I would all move up to the mid to low end of A tier.
Thanks Bumbum! And hey that's not bad at all lol. We're on a similar wavelength then. All of those heroes I have high B so I'm not against seeing them low A
A thank you for the shout-out during the She-Hulk section, I'm flattered Long live 'Pool Shulk! Absolutely love She-Hulk, Colossus, Groot and Domino. Wasp has been getting up there as well! AS FOR YOUR RANKING OF EACH OF THEM? WELL, I THINK IT'S-Takes I completely 1000% agree with. Tier list is very well thought out and each argument is presented very well. You lined out what your criteria is at the start and noted the things you think can really hurt a hero. Per usual the biggest disagreements will be people's personal experiences(one of the best parts of this game), folks mentioning multiplayer annnnd the things people individually value. One thing people will commonly disagree with is stun/confuse being underrated but all solidly designed villains have ways to turn that off suddenly. I really enjoy Apocalypse and Magneto's ways they implemented that effect with occasionally being able to just turn it off. Alongside Steady being a great idea to limit the power of those mechanics without shutting them off. So you not letting that be the sole determining factor in higher placement is really appreciated. (She-Hulk for instance LOVES Stalwart enemies but struggles against Steady due to messing up her time to have them dizzy and easily punchable. Thematically I always imagine if they're not stunned/defeated she KNOCKS them away which gives her a moment to calm down. If they ARE stunned? She KEEPS SWINGING. Defeated? She shouts in triumph and keeps going or just KEEPS PUNCHING while they're down). A really well done list and always awesome to see your breakdowns of things. Each one you get better and better at outlining your thoughts! However. I must rank this video a F Tier. Why? You didn't name S-Tier - "Super-Duper" tier ☹ (Just kidding)
Hahaha i thought about the super duper thing, was hoping you wouldn’t remember lol. In regards to She-Hulk, i probably wouldn’t have put her as high as she is if it wasn’t for you. So to all the people who are upset at where Jennifer Walters is they can blame you 😂😂😂 but seriously playing her with your deck really clicked She-Hulk for me, and i realized i was under estimating and under piloting her the whole time before so thank you again and again for breathing life into She-Hulk for me not just in terms of fun but power. It’s crazy how much better she is against stalwart versus steady. Maybe one day there will be an upgrade like “attach to the villain, they gain stalwart and -1 attack.” That would really fun and bonkers with She-Hulk
@@webwarriorfanatic That is blame I will gladly accept She really was the major puzzle I wanted to solve as she hit EVERYTHING I like about the game. Fun draw, form switching, a neat alter-ego ability. You helped me with the final puzzle piece for sure. Plus I just adore She-Hulk (Dan Slott era and ESPECIALLY the recent Rainbow Rowell run. I ENCOURAGE every She-Hulk fan to read the Rainbow Rowell run). It's amazing how just having the right complimenting deck can make a character click. Funny enough her and Colossus are siblings in playstyle, flipping a lot, utilizing inherit durability (Rec+HP vs Tough) annnnnd they share something MAJOR in common: People try to force them into weaker version of other character's decks/play styles and do badly. For Colossus I found Justice (ESPECIALLY Lay Down the Law) feels so good with him over Protection annnd She-Hulk I found 'Pool and the rest is history. She-Hulk with a few buffs to her weakest cards(as we discussed) could easily hit the A-Tier. Also that would be a neat idea, a card to empower the villain in exchange for buffing yourself. Perhaps a card like "Just you and me!" if there are no allies or minions the villain gains stalwart and -2 ATK. 🤔
@@RitsyReelz Ohh that is very thematic I like that player card concept. It's funny because before I played She-Hulk and Colossus, I did not want to play either of them lol. Honestly I had such a narrow mindset when I first started playing Marvel Champions that I was pretty much planning to never play certain heroes... but I'm so glad I did because both of them are apart of some of my favorite heroes. It was really just not knowing how to play them. That's what makes this game so great, the collaboration, the learning, I love it all!
Great video as always. I am quite aligned with your ranking and happy to see some of my favorites very high (Cable, Cyclop, Bishop, Ironheart). I will give Colossus another try using your video as a tutorial and also play more expert games. Where would you put Maria Hill based on the info we got so far ?
Thanks Max! Glad to see at least 1 person aligned with me haha :) I was extremely unmotivated to play Colossus because he looked weak, but after playing him I realized how wrong I was. For Maria Hill the hero, she looks A to S tier (and I don't want her to be that strong!). The only thing holding her back would be the difficulty in getting setup and how much of a tempo hit it would be to actually play 6 cost supports. That being said, she could just ignore the 6 cost supports and go for Helicarriers/Tac Teams. She looks to be a bit of a wild card because we've never had a hero who doesn't have key events that help them thwart/attack before
War Machine: nice that you addressed the Float like a Butterfly combo, but now you can also do this with the Cyclops ally and you don't need to rely on confusion anymore. Just build up counters and keep the board clean until you can defeat both villain stages in one turn. Retaliate is still your worst enemy, though. Phoenix: I like her gameplay a lot, but it feels like a "weaker" version of Psylocke's, though. Anyways, I like the management of the Phoenix Force counters: it's like restraining yourself until it's time to pop and burn everything. Gambit: I'm currently playing him with SHIELD justice. That archetype is good for thwarting but requires some setup, which I find fine with Gambit as you can just go to hero and tank damage, building counters and using his events to chip away the villains health or deal with minions. Once everything is set, you can safely go to alter ego and let the SHIELD things do the thwarting (or even the damage if you are using the more aggressive SHIELD cards).
Good point with Cyclops ally, he goes crazy for War Machine. The only issue would be building out enough ammo counters and flipping down despite high villain pressure, but I agree that's really good for War Machine. Phoenix has a great tempo to her I agree. Not sure if I'd say she's a weaker Psylocke, but I do think Psylocke is stronger too lol. Gambit with SHIELD justice is very good!
You just made me notice that Spider-Ham's Cartoon Physics is an upgrade and not an event! It's so much better now! Because of the similarity with Backflip, it looks like I've always assumed it was an event when playing him, without reading that part...
Haha nice!!! He's going to feel crazy now. That happens to everybody, I know I've done my fair share of playing an upgrade thinking it was an event and vice versa
I’m so happy for that Colossus ranking. He’s absolutely one of the most underrated heroes because his play style is so different from other heroes. People want to play him in protection and stay in hero form, and that seems intuitive, but as you say, he’s soooo much better when flipping down every single turn. Because of that, he uses Moira McTaggert better than anyone else. Like she was made for him. She’s basically a cheap Avengers Mansion for him. I also appreciate that he doesn’t need any status effects to succeed. In fact, he’s better off without them because he wants to be attacked. He draws cards when losing a tough, so he’s actually hobbled by status effects. I’ve heard people argue that Steel Fist is his strongest card because it stuns and confuses for cheap. But I’d argue it’s actually his weakest card, because he does not want those statuses. I still play the card for burst damage when needed, but I never give up a tough for the status. I could go on and on about Colossus for hours. He’s by far my #1 hero in the game. Oh, and for the record, he consistently beats expert Venom Goblin. Not as easily as expert Magneto, who is kind of a joke to Colossus. But pretty handily.
I knew you’d appreciate the Colossus ranking, Mitch! I’ve never been so wrong about a hero then with Colossus. He’s all that. I absolutely agree he’s a Venom Goblin killer. It’s ironic that he takes care of Magneto so handedly too
@@miahshirreffs i think Mitch probably has a deck but this is the more generic list i used to defeat Ronan/Magneto: marvelcdb.com/deck/view/769992?deck_name=Metal%20Up%21
@@falcowolf27 not sure if this is directed at me or Mitch, but here’s a Ronan game with Colossus: th-cam.com/video/jxCnBXK-5B4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=LAUgcb_twGo9r9L0
Generally agree on most of the list... Definitaly agree on Cable. A true force of nature. I'll move Venom, SP//dr to A tier... And Black Widow to B tier. But most difefrences arrive from personal experience... Thanks for the video!
The only way I’ve been able to make Thor “work” for me is by playing him in leadership and just put out cheap 1 or 2 cost ally’s to cheese the game with “Strength In Numbers”. It allows me to build out quickly and draw enough cards to either throw that Hammer or whatever the situation requires. I played him last night with my gf who was playing Ghost Spider and I literally carried her through the first half of the game against Apocalypse II. We both laughed about it because she usually never has an issue playing Ghost Spider and typically carries me. 😂
Hahaha nice! Love that. I think Squared Off is really really good for Thor. It lets Thor bring more expensive and draw extra cards on top. Definitely plan on trying that soon
@@webwarriorfanatic Never heard of that card but yeah, sounds like a lot of fun! Maybe I’ll be able to bring the Iron Man to the party so it feels more like a true Avengers deck.
@ For real, me and all of my Avenger allies were dog-piling on Apocalypse and thwarting everything like crazy and I’m looking over at my girlfriend like, “whenever you wanna make a move, I can’t hold him off by myself!” Hahahahha. Good times 🤌.
@@lightninlad that’s peak Marvel Champions right there! Btw Squared Off is a new card that came in Magneto’s hero pack. I actually had the honor of revealing it :) th-cam.com/video/kNDl_CjBWQk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GpzcxvpuNDM6ry7L
Excellent ranking criteria using Mag, VenGob & Ronan victory consistency 👍🏻. I think ability to ready is much more powerful than stun & confuse because what makes the most difficult villians the most difficult is steady & stalwart.
Thanks Gnarl! I agree. Stun and confuse is weird to evaluate in this game because it can be overpowered in true solo against a villain like Ultron, balanced in a multiplayer game against Venom Goblin, then completely useless against Thanos
@@webwarriorfanatic I've enjoyed the X-Men(obviously) but I'm definitely feeling that they "dragged" longer than the rest of the game has so far. It's bittersweet in a way.
@@jasco.gaming i got into Marvel Champions during NeXt Evolution so this is all I’ve ever known lol. That being said, I’m very excited for more releases per year. Hoping FFG can continue this game for many years to come!
I really liked your thought out breakdown of this list. I only have a few major differences(hero moves more than 1 tier in either direction) I would put Scarlet Witch C, Spectrum D, Cyclops B, X-23 S.
Thanks Penguin! I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I agree with the ordering of most of that. I gotta try X-23 again because i think I’m missing something with her
Super interesting to get your perspective after you managed to play all of them (even the dreaded Hawkeye ). And the way you did it, going by results and with a focus of the hardest villains, is perfectly on brand. On brand for the guy who drove off D20 from focusing on gameplay content so heavily 😇
I’m glad someone else is sane enough to see cable is S, as well as venom, dr strange, and Captain America in more realistic placements. Personally, I think x-23 is a little better, maybe middle of A. And I also think angel might be rated too highly. I think angel has a hard cowling on his power and he’s either strong enough or not strong enough, I have a hard time creating decks where he can build out and also take care of the board state. I think a lot of heroes go up a rank or two when paired with pool: magik, wolverine, star lord, spider woman, even x-23 becomes close to s. And then with Shadowcat or ghost spider they need protection to move up. Idk if the heroes should be rated in general or when considering only their best decks. If we only consider best decks I would move up heroes like Shadowcat and x-23 a tier, and move magik within her tier to a higher spot. Either way good video with good reasoning for your rankings
Hahaha thanks Bradley. You call it sane i think others would call it something else. You make good points-Angel in particular is one that i see myself wavering on. He’s either strong enough or not strong enough is a great description, i may have been fooled by the times where he was strong enough. Personally I ranked by their best decks, but universal decks that can be brought to any scenario. I agree ‘Pool is a game changer for many of those heroes
Always love your vids and perspective. I think this makes sense for your criteria, but for me I'd change a lot of rankings. I play multiplayer (2 player/ handed mostly) and I value overall power and not just the "big 3". Ms Marvel jumps way up to the top of A, she's a monster in multiplayer. I would also value stun/ confuse more, even if they have steady/stalward, it's good for minions (stunning minions is actually kind of a thing in multiplayer) I'd also put major support champs like Storm and Rogue higher
That's totally fair. For me I value stun/confuse up to the A tier, but a hero needs something independent from status effects to go from A to S tier. I agree Storm/Rogue/Ms. Marvel make a jump in multiplayer, especially Storm! Thanks heroicskeleton, I appreciate you seeing where I'm coming from even though you disagree. I can see where you're coming from too and respect your criteria for how you play. I'd concede that 2 player is "more balanced" even though I enjoy true solo most :)
I strongly think FFG should do a parallel investigator type run from Arkham with this game, and right out of the gate release an alternate identity card for Hulk. It’s absolutely ridiculous that arguably the most powerful hero in the Marvel Universe is arguably the weakest hero in this game. I think they just majorly over corrected when designing him and were too concerned of making him overpowered. I’d love to see an alt version of his identity that’s actually just really bonkers and overpowered. We all know the issues with the hero side but I also think the Banner side is a missed opportunity. Give him 7 hand size and some thwarting potential, maybe spend a mental to remove 2 threat or something. I want a version of his identity card that’s hilariously strong to just make up for how weak he is currently!
That would be interesting! I definitely wouldn’t mind that. The AE side of the card is really the only thing i wish was different. Hulk feels like Hulk with the 0 thwart, 3 attack, 4 handsize but Banner does feel restricted. Giving him a 7 handsize would be bonkers haha
Awesome video as usual! I do have some placements that I disagree with, but that's why we play the game, to form our own opinions :) You know I have to put Ironheart as S tier after winning the Heroic Magneto challenge with her ^^
You need to play more X-23, especially in protection. And no, you absolutely don't need Repurpose, I never use it with her. To me, she's S tier, but most people rate her at least A. She's my single highest win rate hero besides Spider-Ham. Storm being in the B tier doesn't feel right either, nor is SPDR, they're at least A, some might argue SPDR is S. Venom in the B also doesn't feel right. He's not as dominant as he was, so he might not be S, but seeing him in the same tier as Black Panther and She-Hulk doesn't feel right either. I know Peter is your guy, so I won't say anything. But honestly, these are only a few heroes in the grand scheme of things and I agree with the vast majority of them. This is still one of the better lists I've seen, or I should say, the one I agree the most with. Good stuff!
Thanks Kazuchi, I'm honored this is the list you agree most with haha. X-23, SP//dr, and Venom in my opinion are sooo good with A tier villains and in multiplayer, but I felt that against the most cutthroat villains in true solo, they're more limited. That being said I'm open to exploring them more and my opinion may change in the future. X-23 in particular I'm really interested in playing again soon, I think she's gotten some really cool new cards
Great list and video as usual I will say sucks war machine is not higher but I understand why he isn't just great hero and one my favorite hero's in the game he may not have the perfect sustained or burst damage or great survivability but I love that he can go possibly have infinite ammo counters if agent 13 and munition bunker in on the field and if everything goes right he can hit very hard and deal with scheme cards fast
Thanks laffywaffy! War Machine has some glaring weaknesses, but i agree his peak potential is very high with infinite ammo counters readying up Shoulder Cannon for infinite damage. Hopefully new SHIELD support comes out that buffs him and gives him more flexibility with ammo counters in the way of moving all purpose counters 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
War Machine is in my top 10. Even then I will put C too. He can burst but he lacks defense, recovery, thwart, or status control. Yes he has tough but that requires AE. However, he can kill villains like ironheart with minimal effort. Something that can’t be said by most hero
@@Champion_Leon i like him too. Interaction between hero and AE side is a lot of fun. Honestly removing the “forced” response would make him really strong
@ That would be super strong. However, for like 3 months, I was playing War Machine not knowing the errata and it was a fun way to play him. Fixes bunch of problem for damage and thwart. Also, timing so you can avoiding deck out is really fun
@@Champion_Leon you’re probably right maybe taking out the forced response is too powerful haha. How did he play with unlimited put backs? Do you feel like it felt unbalanced delaying decking out or did he actually just feel smooth 😂😂
I’ve been playing around with Thor leadership now that it is surfaced post Magneto. It very much seems to elevate the character. A 0 cost card to get Thor a minion to also drip the cost of an ally by 3 is really nice!
@@kevincarter4782 Multiplayer i think he’s always been solid, but im not sure if Squared Off is as good outside of solo since it accelerates the encounter deck for 2 players 😅 i haven’t played blue Thor in multiplayer yet so not sure. Your experience has been positive?
It’s been amazing so far, although I haven’t tested it in deep waters yet. While it does accelerate the deck a bit, I was fully set up by the end of going through my deck one time, and I cycled through my deck as fast as the Magneto player I was with.
Sorry for the double post, but how do you feel now about power creep? The S-Tier has 2 first wave heroes, but it’s pretty heavily weighted toward waves 6-8. And the first wave heroes are now low in S-Tier. And there aren’t any C or D tier heroes after wave 4.
Good point, i would say overall newer heroes have a higher floor and a similar ceiling (obviously according to my list Cable and Ham have a higher ceiling) But i think if you take any given wave and compare it to the core set, it would average out to be pretty similar. I’m probably not being objective but i still wouldn’t conclude there’s power creep since no hero card or ability has been outclassed (ie 3 cost for 9 damage) but i admit there probably won’t be anymore C or D tier heroes in the future
@@webwarriorfanatic I think I’d agree. We’ve seen a few more powerful heroes, but mostly they’ve just become more consistently B to A tier. I’m pretty impressed with how they’ve been able to flatten the power curve over the last several cycles.
@@mitch-TO it is VERY impressive and I’m grateful they’ve been able to do that. I’m worried about Maria Hill being too powerful, but i trust ffg that she’ll be balanced lol. I’m sure the practicality and loss of tempo for playing a 6 cost support is factored in
I think its more that they are more consistently good, then actual power creep. It says more about how the designers learned how to balance the champions over time than anything. Having all the new champs in A/B going forward would be good
@@heroicskeleton1566 yes absolutely. That's a good way to summarize it. A lot of the heroes in Age of Apocalypse were B tier imo and I like that, but they feel very sophisticated despite being average power wise.
Great list and explanations for your choices. I still have one question that puzzle me, and I would be glad to hear your thought process. We do -- my buddy and I -- usually see Venom and Captain America heroes are interchangeable. They roughly do the same thing, they are both pretty good defender with lots of resiliency/survivability, both have good resource generation on board, they roughly have the same draw back: card draw and damage are not top notch. The main difference being them is their traits: one can lean into guardians stuff, the other one in the avengers stuff. Both traits having good allies and supports. So why are they so different in power ranking in your tiers list? What makes "Cap" so much "better" than Venom? Thank you for explaining.
Thanks Albert, i appreciate that. The biggest difference between Cap and Venom in my mind are statuses. Against stalwart/steady enemies, Heroic Strike isn’t as good, but Cap still has every other card in his kit being good value helping control the board. Grasping Tendrils being 2 cost to block an attack without stun is rough, and Venom’s thwart event is also bad value without the confuse. In addition to that, Venom has to balance playing his weapons and resource generators. Cap starts off being able to thwart/attack 4 with his hero ability and can just get down resources and allies from the get go too
@@webwarriorfanatic Thank you for the explanation. So now I think you "slightly undervalue" Miles Morales, or maybe you misread his Aracrobatics card. Miles struggle against stalwart for sure, so that does not really change your ranking. But I do think Miles is very efficient against Steady, because it is much easier to have a status card roaming around against a Steady villain, than against a regular villain. That means Aracrobatics, deal 5 damage almost everytime, and sometime 8. That permits to gun down last stage of a steady villain much more efficiently than against a regular villain. He effectively increase his damage output against steady villain, and that is very rare feature in the game.
@@alberttaco3668 Yes! I believe i mentioned in the video that Arachnobatics is a dud card against stalwart but I may have forgotten to mention that it’s more consistent against steady 😅 i think Miles still does better against non-steady enemies but his damage output is absolutely more consistent against steady
I really do applaud of your work on this video. Even just playing enough Champions to confidently make the list is an achievement unto itself. But man, I can never tell if you are just pulling schtick to get engagement. First of all, this list essentially boils down to "Can this hero defeat Ronan or Venom Goblin on Expert?", and that presumption has so many holes. Also, you ranked a bunch of Heroes low because they rely on status effects to be effective (like Hawkeye and Spider-Woman). I will say that I think it's cool to see somebody's opinion who hasn't been in the game it's inception. Obviously, there is some nostalgia for the veteran players.
Thanks i think? lol I’m not sure if this is a good thing or not. I’ll say this, the engagement for this video would be the same whether or not i have “hot takes” in it or not. There are no hot takes in the thumbnail or title, and it’s a tier list video. It would be better for me to just lie and agree with the common community perception on these heroes, I would get the same amount of views and get no hate lol. In regards to the most difficult villains, yes that’s my main criteria. If I’m talking about the greatest nba players I’m not going to say “Michael Jordan beat me in a 1v1 game faster than LeBron did.” I’m going to compare them to the best of the best (in this situation, I’m Crossbones lol). Everyone has their own criteria and I’ve heard people say their criteria is the best hero in standard mode which is valid because that’s how they play the game. This is mine 🤷🏻♂️
@@webwarriorfanatic A compliment I figure. Otzdarva is considered the most kind/wholesome content creator in a pretty toxic community(Dead by Daylight) who is famous for putting out long breakdown, analysis and gameplay videos that really help the community.
@@webwarriorfanatic He is basically THE content creator for Dead By Daylight. He will randomly make a video like "Hello, friends. Today I made an easy 3 hour video breaking down all 350 add ons in the game".
Really great list based on beating expert Ronan, Magneto and VG in solo. But I'm affraid that Marvel Champions isn't only about defeating these three villains in solo expert mode. I get your perspective, but the chosen indicators are too limited for an universal power ranking list. Nevertheless I enjoyed the video very much. And I want to appreciate how much your speaking skills have improved lately. Good job!
Thank you! It’s been a long and tough journey speaking on camera so i really appreciate that lol. In regards to the list, i can see how focusing on the big 3 can be narrow minded, but to me it’s the testament to the hero’s universal power. Cable can take down the big 3 easily? He takes down everyone even more easily. If a hero can take down 90% of heroes easily but struggles with the top 3 that matters more to me. I’m glad you still enjoyed this video even if we disagree on the criteria :)
Some takes I agree with, some I disagree with but ultimately I was entertained and you provided valid reasons for your choices so I cant argue this is a well reasoned list. Im glad you gave Bishop and Adam Warlock their due respect as they are powerhouses. As someone who has piloted Rocket through the toughest encounters in the game in multiple aspects (and watched Descry dominate a multi player game with him) I think you've really undervalued his economy. He has draw effects (albeit conditional) on Alter and Hero, a double resource that effectively allows you to set your next draw, noone else has the combination of genius trait (alter) and guardian (hero) giving you access to Moon Girl, Ingenuity and Knowwhere, and he can easily get 3THW. I will admit there is a steep learning curve with Rocket that can lead to frustrating and underwhelming gameplay experiences if you dont utilise him properly - he is squishy, needs to use his alter-ego to gain advantage, and has one of the most unique damage profiles in the game both numerically and source (this can feel clunky if you are wasting charge counters)
Thanks Thomas! I really like Rocket but am pretty down on him these days. Have you seen my Rocket vs Expert Magneto playthrough? I think he’s definitely capable of some cool things, but i don’t think he can handle Expert Ronan in true solo at all. I might have to revisit him and maybe my opinion will change. Glad you enjoyed this video overall and you’re the only comment I’ve seen give Adam Warlock his props haha. I agree he’s a powerhouse!
@@webwarriorfanaticI have Rocket as a high B btw, I just thought mid C was low given his capabilities and how easily I rolled MTS expert solo with him. Ronan was tough but doable with him. Warlock is my gatekeepr for A tier, Dr Strange my gatekeeper for S. Im experimenting with a new Adam Warlock deck (Squared Off, Looking for Trouble, Come at me Bub, Face The Past and OWOA) Squared off into Karma is a neat combo in the deck
@@thomasmcintosh1452 Nice! Those are some fun synergies with Warlock. He could be a really powerful minion slayer with all the across aspect options now
@@webwarriorfanatic Yeh Warlock is one of those heroes that will always interest me or spark creative deck builds, I think with his shell (hero kit) being so good you can really tailor your deck to any purpose, his flexible deckbuilding also means that as the card pool expands he is only ever likely to trend upwards
In my opinion almost every hero on this list would be in the same tier at higher player counts with the exception of heroes like Rogue, Cyclops, Cable who get better because they have mechanics that are not fully utilized in true solo
@@GetUpandGame haha true but i do believe he can stay relatively healthy against a lot of scenarios. It’s really just those 10% that completely screw him over 🤦🏻♂️
As one of She-Hulk's biggest defenders, the placement definitely is fitting. People definitely overrate how bad she is and she's aged extremely well as the game has gone along. I think that core box experience is still hurting that general perception.
Hey Tito, yea I’ve heard from a few people that there was an official ruling on it and it stacks. I tried looking for it and am unable to find it though
I always hear that Strange and Scarlet Witch were the strongest ever. Strange has a unique problem in that he relies too much on his invocation deck and doesn't care what aspect he is in. Scarlet Witch is a little inconsistent but she's a lot of fun. One of the ones I barely hear anything about it Quicksilver. I've never lost a scenario when i play as Quicksilver lol
Eyy Quicksilver!!! I see the appeal of Scarlet Witch but her chaotic nature is not for me haha. But when the Hex Bolts and Molecular Decay hit it’s 💯💯💯💯💯
Miles in my experience is stronger against the top villains that aren't Ronan/Venom Goblin/Magneto. Like he stomps on Ultron/Mutagen Formula/etc so i can definitely relate to what you're saying in the times he's stronger than Peter. It's just that both Peter and Miles have a 100% win rate against Ultron when playing with powerful decks and not making mistakes so that factors less for me than the higher difficulty scenarios
I wouldn’t say he can trivialize Ronan. I’d say Mockingbird is his only shot to not get demolished lol but even then she costs his whole hand to play out every turn
Yes, but i believe this list translates to multiplayer. Any hero that lacks versatility suddenly has the breathing room to play how they want in multiplayer because the other heroes can cover for them. Hero cards that are more situational have more uses in multiplayer because there are more encounter cards (and more minions and side schemes as a byproduct). Weaker heroes usually don’t get stronger than the stronger heroes at higher player counts because the stronger heroes also get better
@@webwarriorfanatic I definitely agree with the sentiment that multiplayer raises all heroes. Mostly you'd see some shifting around within the tiers. However, I think there are definitely a few, particularly in the lower tiers, that would jump tiers all together. For example, Shadowcat's full-cancel defense abilities have a much larger impact in multiplayer. It was a fun video. Thanks for sharing!
@@astrodar2336 thanks Astrodar! I absolutely agree. That’s a really good point, Shadowcat may jump up the most in multiplayer where she can safely flip if she gets her obligation and can really focus on defending, leaving minions and side schemes to others (helping out here and there)
Her sidekick deck is great but if Honey Badger is hypothetically buffed to like 5 attack/10 hit points and you pull her obligation, all of that goes away. It's too risky in my opinion especially against the higher difficult scenarios
@@webwarriorfanatic Yeah, I do have that happen from time to time. But a lot of the deck is built around either getting honey badger, readying/healing, and clarity of purpose for damage. Honey's buffs are just icing on the cake. I don't know of another deck that is doing 9-10 damage consistent/minimum turn 1.
@@nwinkler07 i think X-23 got alot of buffs from Magneto’s hero pack and will be trying her again with a Honey Badger recursion deck (so even if the obligation comes out we can just play her back again). In regards to the 10 damage turn 1 a lot of heroes can do that in my experience, like Spider-Man playing a SWK + basic activation or Wolverine Claws to Lunging Strike + basic activation.
@@webwarriorfanatic I hear you - you rank by their kit alone. I think there is definitely a case for A or B tier. With some leadership cards I would say she is S tier. But, that's just my humble opinion. Stoked to hear your thoughts (and recommendations) when you try her out again. And Spiderman - Tier S???? I haven't touched him since core set came out. I'll have to give him another shot. What's your favorite Spidey deck? Here's to hoping this next wave gives some love to our older heroes!
@@nwinkler07 I really enjoy this deck: marvelcdb.com/decklist/view/37827/weaving-threads-1.0 I have gameplay with it in the notes of the decklist. Basically we flip down to alter-ego and go crazy recurring Moon Girl and suiting up
I definitely disagree with Nightcrawler's ranking, but only partially. In protection he's tanking pretty huge hits. I played two handed against Ronan with NC Protection and Magneto Aggression, and both were tanking big hits. I even blocked off a 10 damage attack against Ronan (with some help from side step and jump flip). So I guess in other aspects NC is probably B, but in protection I find him solidly in A. Not sure how you'd evaluate tiers anyway, do you just go with how well they do in their best deck(s)?
Yes their best decks but in a general sense. So if protection is Nightcrawler’s best deck, how does that fare against Venom Goblin without heavily teching for him? I think he struggles removing the massive amount of threat Venom Goblin generates and takes a bit too long setting up the green perfect defense engine against Ronan (i have both playthroughs documented on the channel).
@@webwarriorfanatic I think it's fair to say there might be some struggle, but I wouldn't say any more than Adam Warlock or Antman would, in my experience with those heroes against that scenario. We all have our own play experiences for sure
@@Rathamak Yea there could be things I’m missing with my experience. But you gotta check out my Adam Warlock games! I’m surprised no one is saying he’s underrated, he’s really really strong
That's fair, I can see the case for him being a more difficult villain. In my experience, Loki is more grindy but after stabilizing he doesn't present much pressure. Magneto can still attack for 7+ damage multiple times in a turn while exhausting your hero/allies so they can't block so for me he's a bit dangerous even if I have a fully built out board
Interesting. I found it the opposite when it came to the 3 big build out characters. I found spdr the best and fastest to build out and get going while iorn heart the slowest to the point that I feel by the time I reach level 3 any other hero was gonna win the game anyway.
Interesting! You’re not the first who ive heard say that after i posted this video so there may be something I’m missing with SP//dr. I may have to revisit her and see if i can build her out faster/safer
@@metascrub285 the 3 handsize is rough in my experience even when fully built out. If she draws only resource cards or 0 cost cards even if her suit is fully built out there’s not much she can do for that specific turn. And resource cards are vital to help pay for her upgrades early game
Spider-Man in S-tier but Shadowcat in B-tier is madness. "Backflip is the best defense event in the game" but Shadowcat's Quick Shift is strictly better. Same cost, same damage prevention always except it also conditionally draws 2 cards and can be used to defend for other players in multiplayer and Allies in scenarios like Sabertooth. Phased and Confused is nearly identical to Webbed Up except that it costs 1 less. Airwalk is more reliable and just generally better than Spider-Tracer. Phased Strike is usually worse than Swinging Web Kick but is commonly exceptional value. Cards like Shadowcat Surprise and Ready to Rumble let her consistently ready with a decent stat-line giving her excellent versatility which you mentioned valuing greatly and her ability to circumvent guard/patrol only makes her even more reliable. She has the same hand-size and only 1 less hit point. Kitty's Room isn't quite as strong as Aunt May for recovery but her ability to ignore damage makes her probably more durable. I'm not even really trying to say Shadowcat is S-tier. I think she's strong but I don't have much experience with a ton of heroes to compare. I am trying to say she's basically exactly as powerful as Spider-Man.
The first option for Quick Shift is seemingly the same as Backflip. For the second option, Shadowcat is already taking no damage, it just allows her to not exhaust (Spidey doesn’t need to exhaust for Backflip anyways) and she draws 2 cards (but has to play the actual Quick Shift card so it’s effectively drawing 1 card. Quick Shift’s timing is also worse, you must play it when the villain attacks so if you’re facing Klaw and his boosts end up being 0, you just Quick Shifted 1 damage. Backflip’s timing is when the damage is seen, so if Klaw hits for 1 damage, i wont play Backflip, if Klaw hits for 7 i can choose to play Backflip then. Backflip can also be played in alter-ego for villains who attack alter-egos (Ronan, Juggernaut) and Quick Shift cant be used if Shadowcat’s obligation is out. After taking a deeper look, Backflip is clearly more flexible. Almost all the cards you mentioned for Shadowcat are situational and have little board impact if the conditions are not met. Finally, these 2 heroes’ economy is not close. Spider-Man has Scientist, Spider-Sense, and Web-Shooters and Kitty Pryde only has her Solid Mass form resource which can only be used in Solid Mass form. Spider-Man can play events/allies to handle multiple minions/side schemes. If Shadowcat defeats 1 minion or 1 side scheme her economy is often used up
@@webwarriorfanatic I'll take the alter-ego backflip. That's a very solid point I hadn't caught and is certainly great when it comes up. I won't call the activation timing better though. Seeing the damage first is nice and certainly tips the scales a little in true solo but all that allows you to do is not play a card that has no other use. Saving it for your next turn is a hit to your economy so you're banking on a second activation against you. It doesn't help if the villain activates twice and they were both strong attacks. Quick Shift's timing is much stronger in multiplayer but I know this was geared toward solo. Downplaying the second option to draw 2 cards is crazy though. Not exhausting is basically the same as a ready so if you ignore the damage avoidance effect then it's a 0 cost ready and draw 2. People will call Desperate Defense a staple for protection but this option blows that out of the water. I absolutely disagree that "Almost all the cards you mentioned for Shadowcat are situational and have little board impact if the conditions are not met." Most of the cards mentioned were direct comparisons to Spider-Man's cards where I would argue Shadowcat is coming out ahead besides Phased Strike which I believe is on marginally worse (6 damage is not little board impact even if it's under the curve). Airwalk is not situational. Either you are in phased mass form already or a basic attack will get you there and with access to 3 copies Shadowcat Surprise and 3 copies of Ready to Rumble she is very resilient to stuns. Certainly less situational than Spider-Tracer. Those 2 ready cards are also not situational at all. I do agree that Spider-Man has better economy. Spider-Sense is a strong hero ability but scientist can only be used in AE which limits it mostly to set-up cards which I would argue is worse than solid mass form which can more easily be used for board impact, especially later on. Web-Shooters are almost more tempo cards than economy cards though as you're trading 2 resources now for 3 resources spread across 3 turns after which you'll have to draw them again which might not be possible until your 3rd deck cycle. I wouldn't discount the value Shadowcat can extract out of cards like Toe to Toe, Powerful Punch, Get Behind me!, Surprise Attack and Lay Down the Law. On the whole, I'm not trying to argue that Shadowcat is better than Spider-Man. I'm trying to say that if Spider-Man is middle S-tier then she is absolutely not at the bottom of B-tier. Also, you should play more Shadowcat because I think she's pretty similar to Spider-Man, the Spider-Man of the x-men perhaps, but has some much weirder/more complicated interactions that can be very satisfying.
@@insultingbagel That’s fair, i can definitely use more plays with Shadowcat. The biggest difference between her and Spidey to me is that Shadowcat’s kit is streamlined-she is good at defending and wants to be be defending. But put her in a situation where defending is extremely disadvantageous or flat out not viable and it’s rough. That’s what i mean by not versatile/flexible. Spidey can kind of do whatever and that’s why i see them as very different. But if you’re saying she’s the Peter of the X-Men I’ll have to give her another try and see!
Nah from your ganeplay it's cyclops. Literally seen the best ever rohnan run from you with cyclops having control over the game all game. Rohan didn't pressure your cyclops deck what so ever.
It is such an interesting thought right. Like what is harder heroic 2 Ultron, or Expert Ronan? Captain America can beat heroic 2 Ultron, I am not sure Peter Parker can.
@webwarriorfanatic yeah he is great against ultron, I would argue he is far better than spiderman in the vast majority of the scenarios. The scenarios we have come to see as the hardest are in part seen as difficult simply because FFG tailored those scenarios to be more difficult for heroes like Captain America or Dr. Strange. So, yeah you can argue that Spiderman might be better against Ronan, I am not sure he is, spiderman isn't better against the other 4 scenarios in GMW. Yes they can both beat all the scenarios, but Captain America does it easier. If you haven't played through Expert campaign GMW, I recommend giving it a shot it is a very different experience from playing the scenarios individually.
@@webwarriorfanatic the reason I recommend Expert campaign GMW is because the scenarios are so varied, yet so difficult and per the expert campaign rules for GMW you can't change your deck between scenarios.
Also can you share what deck is Adam Warlock good? Him having 1 card of a thing makes him way too inconsistent. He needs his upgrades, almost all of them to function well. He has a 1 cost event that can tutor, but its 2 effective resouce, even with pool triple resouce its only 1 effective resource gain. And also thats assuming you got that card out of 40 of 50 cards. I see him as a low tier B, and thats mostly due to him being mystic.
@@IamJFD I used this deck to defeat expert Venom Goblin/Loki/Ronan all on first try: marvelcdb.com/decklist/view/36680/puppet-master-expert-venom-goblin-w-video-1.0 It's an ally swarm deck, but pretty fun synergies with Boot Camp and 'Pool triples to get set up. I have some playthroughs with it posted
@webwarriorfanatic lol I hear you, Spider-Man is still awesome. Hopefully they'll make more Spider-Man related characters in the future like a Maximum Carnage big box with Venom Eddie Brock's version, and Black Cat with cards which will elevate Spider-Man's gameplay even more.
@webwarriorfanatic I can see her in multi-player doing a discard of other heroes' cards and grabbing their genius resources lol. Like she'll help a fellow hero out but do some cat burgling as payment lol
This list started making a lot more sense when I realized its not a general power tier list but a "How good are characters in true solo at rushing 3 scenarios" list. As someone who plays 4p multiplayer more than solo, this list looks insane when viewed through that lens.
I play multiplayer every week and the top tier heroes on this list are the strongest in higher player counts as well. Also if it was about rushing in true solo against the top 3 villains, Deadpool would be #1 in S++ tier so not sure if this would make sense
@webwarriorfanatic Interesting. We also do multiplayer every week (3 regulars and a rotating 4th person who's experience varies), doing pretty much every scenario except Ronin and Nebula. Our experiences seem very different from yours on some heroes. Could just be playstyle differences idk. Can't speak on Deadpool though. It's the only character/cards nobody in our group was interested in, so it's the only set we didn't get.
@@fromundaman That’s fair. I would say it depends on how you guys build. If your decks are coordinated, than maybe 1 player brings no thwarting because it’s covered by other players. I can definitely see the multiplayer experience varying based on that!
@@webwarriorfanatic That is pretty close to how we play. Obviously will help out wherever needed, but we generally have a dedicated aggression, justice and protection with a leadership deck to fill any gaps/carry late game. As such it's weird to see some characters who can function in any of these roles so low while some who are a bit more specialized being so high. For example, in our experience Spiderman has not been the best 4p justice in hard scenarios in our experience, whereas characters like Black Widow, Quicksilver and Nova have performed well in any role we've put them in. I think 3 of us have Ironheart in top 4 too, since if things go well she can use her armor 3 ability to one shot a villain phase or come real close to it. Could definitely be playstyle differences though.
@@fromundaman That makes sense. Our group is the exact opposite so i guess that’s why we disagree so much lol. Recently we all brought Justice so we did a triple Justice team up. I’ve also done double aggression (by building out and no rushing).
Gonna defend my boy Drax here. Saying you think Drax can't defeat Expert Magneto or VG while admitting you haven't tried it doesn't make a strong case for placing him below Hulk. I respect that you have limited time and can't try everyone against everything, but a well-built Drax deck with lots of defense and selfhealing can certainly defeat the most difficult villains in the game.
I could barely defeat Thanos with Drax and Thanos isn’t in the same league as Ronan, etc. That being said, i said several absolute statements in this video because i believe im correct and i can EASILY be proven wrong. Show me any video disaproving anything i said and ill gladly concede. Everything i say is backed up by my playthroughs so i think its only fair to have evidence when saying otherwise 🤷🏻♂️
I think that is impossible to find on youtube a realistic tier list. Personally I disagree with a lot of your consideration and tier. I had played near 2000 expert/heroic matches with all 55 heroes: top ten over 50 match each, the last 10 almost 15 match each. Maybe you don't like some heroes or you played very few match with them. I agree only with the first 4 heroes ranked, just for example Captain Marvel in heroic solo mode is incredibile stronger than Spiderman and Doc Strange. About Magneto I had played only 4 expert matches (offensive and leadership) so I had to play him more for a ranking. Btw thanks for your video.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching. You definitely have much more experience playing Marvel Champions than me, and you play at a much higher difficulty setting than i do. As i play more champions i know my opinions will change on some things like they already have and maybe it will be more aligned with you in the future 😂👌🏻
Re: Venom, he has a 3/4/3 statline with his guns, gets a free resource every turn, has multiple tutors and readies in his kit and has one of the most powerful cards in the game in his Multigun. Putting him behind Shehulk on account of his events being underpowered against steady/stalwart villains while Shehulk has 4 do-nothings in Ground Stomp and Legal Practice is an extremely questionable take.
All that is great, but what matters is how a hero plays practically and not what each individual ability does. She-Hulk is stronger against the higher difficulty scenarios than Venom and if i need to bring a hero to win against a random scenario, I’d bring She-Hulk over Venom
@@webwarriorfanatic I can't see how SHulk can ever be stronger than Venom with both an inferior kit and hero hand size. I agree with you on almost all accounts in your ranking, but I believe you have a couple of huge blind spots, and SHulk is one of them. But that's fine of course, it's your personal list and I enjoyed listening to it for the most part 😊
@@svendejong8110 thanks i appreciate that Sven! Idk how to explain it but as an example in my last video where i ranked Magneto’s hero cards, i ranked most of his cards in the C tier because individually i don’t think they’re very powerful but overall i still think he’s a top tier hero
LOL. also WW just want to apologize as I have made negative comments on your videos before but I take them all back and keep up the great work. Big fan now. @@webwarriorfanatic
@@grifbean hey Griffin, no worries it’s water under the bridge. I really appreciate that and am also sorry I definitely could’ve responded more kindly to your comments
Personally I wouldn’t. I don’t believe that everyone’s strongest deck is leadership recursion and some X-Men like Nightcrawler still struggle against difficult scenarios even with a full Uncanny X-Men/Utopia lineup
@@webwarriorfanaticsorry but I don't think so. There are just too many strong and cheap X-allies (in Leadership but mostly in basic), and Uncanny X-Men is beyond broken. Getting that on the field early (through Build Support if necessary) completely trivializes any villain. That's why I think, of the X-Men, you only rated Cyclops and Magneto correctly. Put another way, if Cyke didn't have his AE ability, he'd struggle to even make B-tier according to your criteria. That says it all for the strength of the X-allies build.
@@svendejong8110 Cyke is the best recipient of Uncanny because he can use rainbow X-Men. I don’t think the other X-Men are on the same level as him when they play weaker versions of his deck. Magneto is different because of his economy and board control, i actually prefer him in Justice than leadership as i believe giving Magneto more reliable AE access is best for the consistency of his kit
A lot of Hot Takes here, as you are probably aware. I'm not going to focus ones i think you have too high, you have strong opinions, but there are a few i think you are underrating. SPDR is on the same level as Ironheart and IronMan, setup hero and she can pop off just as hard. Domino again, does insane things once set up. SpiderWoman is tricky, she has a tonne of decks and its easy to miss her best ones. Venom is super versatile and his cards are very powerful. Hurt by steady but to drop him to B for it seems harsh but easily on same level as Cap. And finally I really think you are missing something with ShadowCat, being essentially invincible is huge. Everyone talks about her P deck but her A and J are extremely good too, better suited for lower counts. I also think X-23 is too low also, she can do insane things, but her gameplan can be disrupted so shrugs. There is more I disagree with but those are the biggest.
Hey Jeremy! I’ll try to respond to your points: SP//dr - I love Peni and agree built out she’s very strong, but do you think she builds as easily as Tony or Riri? Imo she’s a level below them in how difficult it is to build out, but she’s as strong if she can get there Venom - comparing him to Cap against steady/stalwart is night and day imo. Cap’s only status effect is Heroic Strike, most of Venom’s cards have statuses Shadowcat - she’s another hero i think demolishes weak scenarios but I’ve never seen gameplay of her defeating expert Ronan/Venom Goblin and i personally think it takes way too much luck to do it X-23 - yea i agree her peak is very high, but like you said yourself getting disrupted hurts her flexibility/versatility
I find Sp//dr easier and safer to build out with than Ironman. She’s far more functional in early game than he is but snowballs just as well. But I get that it’s all very personal. She-hulk has always been my favorite core set hero since release and she’s one of my most played. Love her.
@@metascrub285 yea, and the pistols are tied to his basic activation with is really restrictive. If he gets exhausted or status locked the pistols do nothing
I'm not sure I understand/buy your point on X-23 not being versatile. The fact that she gets multiple ways to ready is what makes up for the fact that she wants to do basic activations. She does great in every single aspect too. Am I incredibly biased as she's my favourite? Sure, in fact I skipped straight to her part of the video (will watch the rest later of course), but on first glance it baffles me to see her lower than She Hulk or Adam Warlock or Colossus and in the same tier as Iceman!
Getting the Frozen attachment or Unnatural Storm side scheme messes X-23 up! The strongest heroes in my opinion don't get shaken by specific encounter cards. My point of her not being versatile, is what if there's too much threat so she can't flip down, but she can't ready with an encounter card effect? What if she needs attack events to get rid of Venom Goblin's Advanced Glider? What if she needs a thwart event because her basic thwart stat is lowered by an encounter card attachment? Seeing at least one of these situations id not uncommon in Marvel Champions
@webwarriorfanatic in my experience her kit is so cheap that she can afford to be flexible with the rest of the deck most of the time (I do think the glider is a very poorly designed card for the record). That said, thanks for elaborating, I do agree that she can end up in a bad spot, just not often enough in practice to offset her assets.
Ice man doesnt put frostbite by him self,he has cards that do that as well,ice man in leadership is s tier,if u play jubilee in 2-3 player game she is crazy,nightcrawler as well B tier u placed so many great heros idk how u got this list but so many heros in ur b list are way better then where u place them
I don't disagree those heroes can shine in specific situations, but against the toughest scenarios (Expert Ronan, Venom Goblin) Iceman, Jubilee, and Nightcrawler all struggle. These 3 heroes require a lot of effort for the higher difficulty while heroes above them require less effort. Playthroughs are on my channel showing my experience with this.
@@svendejong8110 it’s not. I have Nightcrawler playthroughs on the channel losing with Uncanny X-Men leadership to expert Venom Goblin. A villain I’ve never lost to with Pool She-Hulk btw
If Venom gets rid of his Universal Weapon and Ronan never draws it back so Venom can stun/confuse lock then sure. It's a little bit unreliable in my opinion to play a strategy that counts on the villain not getting certain encounter cards
Some stuff I agree with, some I don't. My thoughts: - Even though you're trying your best to justify your impressions, in the end you're (like most of us) just going by vibes, even sometimes using very similar points for why a hero is very good but another one is not very reliable. And that's ok, but it explains why there's always some discrepancy when people rate these things. - Do people really rate Cable low? And if so, what are they smoking? Cable is probably the best hero overall in the game (I didn't say more powerful, I said best, by the way. He won't trivialize a lot of scenarios on his own the way Strange can do, but he'll just make everyone around him better in a way Strange doesn't). - Given how much you weigh "the big three", it's not surprising that there's also some outliers. Miles Morales for example is bonkers good even before his status cards (he's generally undercosted, and has good alter-ego support and a good economy), but once you add in the statuses he is godly, and so most people rate him at S. But given your criteria, I think most of these ratings are fair. - All that being said, I feel you're criminally underrating Spider-woman (her double aspect allows her to pull off some crazy combos, but it's true that deckbuilding with her is more complex. Maybe she hasn't clicked for you?), Storm (she doesn't require anywhere as much setup as you said, and she's as flexible as it gets, plus her kit is overall fantastic) and Wolverine (I don't feel he depends on rushing anywhere as much as you said). Conversely, I think that you're overrating She-hulk some (and here I think that Steady/stalwart villains are a factor too, as that means her superhuman strength tends to stay on the table in a way that it doesn't against others). - Aside from those? I could move stuff around a bit, but I have no big qualms with your rankings. - Also, as a final thought, it's kind of sad you found Hawkeye boring. I was expecting to really dislike him and I didn't give him a chance for the longest time, and once I did I found him a super fun hero to play. There's something extremely satisfying about preparing the right arrow and letting it fly, then hitting the villain for some extra damage or with another arrow. He's super squishy (a bit too much, which is why so many of us run him in leadership), but his burst and status delivery are fantastic. So yeah. Do give him another try, maybe against a different type of villain and see what you think.
Hey javgoro! So in regards to Cable, I got TONS of pushback and straight up hate when I said I thought he was the strongest hero in Marvel Champions. I have the videos on youtube and the comments section is a mess lol. If you look at any hero tier list before then, he's almost always in B tier. Not sure if you consider that low, but that's low to me since I think he's S tier. Also I know you're not doing this intentionally, but you misquoted a ton of stuff I said. I never said Wolverine depends on rushing, I just said he's really good at rushing and his only economy (claws) is for damage. I also didn't say is Hawkeye is boring. I just think he sucks and I don't like him lol. He's not boring though... just weak. But yeah we've talked about this before and I can concede that maybe I value steady/stalwart too much. I'm just always wary about bringing a hero with stuns/confuses to a steady/stalwart villain because they might get shut down. Miles in particular still has good value cards against a stalwart enemy (I mentioned this in the video) but he's not as strong as against an enemy that can be statuslocked. And where he needs all the value he can get are the big 3 villains. I'll possibly give Hawkeye another try in the future... no promises though haha
@webwarriorfanatic yeah, I don't know what to tell you about Cable, bud. Haters gonna hate, maybe? The first time I played him, my thought was "this guy is insane", and things haven't changed since. His only weaknesses are that if you get unlucky (or choose the wrong side schemes to put down) he can struggle to set up, and that his nemesis set is horrible. But he still ranks firmly at the top spots of S tier. On the topic of villain choice, I've lately been doing a thought exercise where I categorize what makes a certain villain hard. With the big three, I think it goes along this way: - Ronan: very high attack, punishing boost effects, dangerous treacheries, virtual heroic 1 mode. - Venom Goblin: high threat pressure, dangerous attachments, high encounter card burst, steady/stalwart + retaliate. - Magneto: cannot be rushed, lots of disabling effects, highly balanced modes of advancement (i.e. good at both attacking and scheming). With this in mind, heroes that can handle those things (for example, having treachery cancels in your deck or ways to ignore attacks against Ronan, both things that Peter Parker has) will rate higher when ranked against those villains; meanwhile, heroes that can exploit other weaknesses that are more common in the general villain pool (e.g. status effects, less damage pressure...) will rate higher when weighed against the totality of the game. Would you agree with this analysis? And yeah, definitely give Hawkeye another shot ( ;) ), especially in multiplayer where the pressure on him isn't so high. Some of the most fun games I've had in the past few months were two-handing Hawkeye Leadership and Black Widow Justice. They crushed the likes of Expert Mutagen Formula and Kang without breaking a sweat, completely shutting down the villain's entire game. It was a thing of beauty.
@@javgoro i totally agree with that analysis. My thing is if Peter Parker struggled with Ultron as much as let’s say Miles Morales struggled with Ronan, then i would rank Miles as higher. Villains that have a weakness that can be exploited also tend to be just all around weaker villains with less pressure unfortunately. I’m not excited to try Hawkeye again but I’ll keep an open mind lol
@@webwarriorfanatic Some heroes just click (or don't click) with us, and I think that's part of why the game is so good; you can always find a hero that really works for you. People swear by Captain Marvel, but both you and I were lukewarm on her (in terms of fun), IIRC, and to this day I find Black Panther dull but he's a lot of people's favourite. So if you find Hawkeye not to your liking, that's normal. The reason I'm encouraging you to try him again is because I was really surprised by how fun he was when I was expecting him to be a big meh.
Not only stronger than She-hulk, Storm can win in heroic solo mode vs a lot villains. The new rules upgrade a lot She-hulk but her kit sucks...at least 4 dead cards...too much
@webwarriorfanatic but the bulk of your actual time spent talking about her was almost entirely about the Collector. Look, Natasha has a ceiling. She's not going to single-handedly defeat the top 3 toughest scenarios. But C is a low rating. On the plus side, she has a unique and interesting mechanic!
@@chauveet I can only spend so much time talking about each hero but I did specifically mention scenarios other than Collector I when talking about her. The heroes above her have an overall easier time to "defeat every expert scenario" in the game imo. But I will give her another shot in the future and see if my opinion changes. It's just my opinion based on my experience so could be stuff I'm missing
"I'l try to be as unbiased as possible", drops spiderman at the top of the list and ends the video.
Lol that was the original video
@webwarriorfanatic you wouldn't be wrong!
@@CastironPots 😂😂😂
Spiderman honestly has some good match ups against the top villians. He can really stop the damage output of rohanan.
@@metascrub285 yesss preach! Spidey is very strong against Ronan/Venom Goblin/Magneto, but the thing is those 3 are still more difficult for him than Ultron. Other heroes defeating weaker villains more easily but struggling more with the top villains is why Peter earns his spot for me
I think you give a lot of your perspective and I love this channel for the spiderman appreciation since he is my favorite too, I was hoping to find a content creator that just loved spidey as much as I do
Thanks so much Samuel! I really appreciate that 😁🙏 I started doing Spider-Man gameplays because i watched every Spider-Man playthrough on TH-cam at the time and wanted to see more content around him so i definitely feel that hahaha
I mostly agree with your ranking, especially with Cable. I have always find him quite powerful and didn't understood why most reviewers put him in B tier. Happy to not being alone on that hill...
I'm glad to hear I'm not alone too! The Cable train is coming haha. You and me will be the first on that wagon, I definitely see more and more people coming around to that idea
Most of them cannot make Cable work. I think people will be too focus on removing threat and doing his thing instead of thinking every side scheme as easy build up to his kit and board state.
@@Champion_Leon yea i think Cable is easy to play, but a little difficult to maximize because he has SO many different lines per turn. Choosing which side scheme to start, whether or not to thwart or play more side schemes and when to do it all can be complex at times
Cable is much weaker in multiplayer
@@ghostsage6421 Being able to give everyone on the table a resource generator on turn 1 is the biggest tempo boost to start a game. It's worth it for everyone to help chip away at the player side schemes. I've played tons of Cable multiplayer games and can say he's very strong. I have a 2 player Cable game with Daring Lime on the channel too
I started playing two handed a few months ago after playing only true solo por a year and what I've realized is that all heroes basically become 1-2 tiers stronger. Being able to turn to alter-ego every other turn to heal and use alter-ego supports and being able to build a more focused deck completely changes some heroes. Also, tanking hits and healing becomes a viable strategy for a lot of heroes with high REC or with Downtime. I believe all heroes can beat all expert villains on two-handed play.
I absolutely agree. 2 handed, any combination of heroes can beat any expert villain and everyone becomes stronger 👌🏻
So true man. I realized that playing two handed Cable in Yellow and Wasp in Red. Man he lifted her up in the skies dealing insane amounts of damage while gunboating those side schemes and minions. I just crushed Ronan, VG and Magneto, like I was playing against Absorbing Man😮 It’s so satisfying hunting for those synergies between decks when you got 80 cards to play with.
@@milanmartinovic5064 yes, it's soo satisfying. It removes all limitations for deckbuilding and unlocks your hero's full potential(like you experienced with Wasp). And I really enjoy not being afraid of dying after every single villain action/encounter card or not having an answer. Suddenly, Galaxy's Most Wanted goes from impossible and stressful to manageable and enjoyable 🙏
@@milanmartinovic5064 totally!!! The game truly opens up in terms of creativity at higher player counts
Cable is an absolute monster, especially now that Gunboat Diplomacy exists.
I also agree that Colossus is very strong and very fun...if you know how to pilot him. One of my favorites.
Absolutely. I underrated Colossus so much before i played him. Thought he was trash lol 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
@webwarriorfanatic a great sign of intelligence is the ability to change your opinion
Awesome list and I love hearing some interesting hot takes. Only ones I disagree with you on are Wolverine, Domino, Storm, X-23, Vision, Agent Venom, and Gamora who I would all move up to the mid to low end of A tier.
Thanks Bumbum! And hey that's not bad at all lol. We're on a similar wavelength then. All of those heroes I have high B so I'm not against seeing them low A
A thank you for the shout-out during the She-Hulk section, I'm flattered Long live 'Pool Shulk! Absolutely love She-Hulk, Colossus, Groot and Domino. Wasp has been getting up there as well! AS FOR YOUR RANKING OF EACH OF THEM? WELL, I THINK IT'S-Takes I completely 1000% agree with. Tier list is very well thought out and each argument is presented very well. You lined out what your criteria is at the start and noted the things you think can really hurt a hero.
Per usual the biggest disagreements will be people's personal experiences(one of the best parts of this game), folks mentioning multiplayer annnnd the things people individually value. One thing people will commonly disagree with is stun/confuse being underrated but all solidly designed villains have ways to turn that off suddenly. I really enjoy Apocalypse and Magneto's ways they implemented that effect with occasionally being able to just turn it off. Alongside Steady being a great idea to limit the power of those mechanics without shutting them off. So you not letting that be the sole determining factor in higher placement is really appreciated.
(She-Hulk for instance LOVES Stalwart enemies but struggles against Steady due to messing up her time to have them dizzy and easily punchable. Thematically I always imagine if they're not stunned/defeated she KNOCKS them away which gives her a moment to calm down. If they ARE stunned? She KEEPS SWINGING. Defeated? She shouts in triumph and keeps going or just KEEPS PUNCHING while they're down).
A really well done list and always awesome to see your breakdowns of things. Each one you get better and better at outlining your thoughts!
However. I must rank this video a F Tier. Why? You didn't name S-Tier - "Super-Duper" tier ☹ (Just kidding)
Hahaha i thought about the super duper thing, was hoping you wouldn’t remember lol. In regards to She-Hulk, i probably wouldn’t have put her as high as she is if it wasn’t for you. So to all the people who are upset at where Jennifer Walters is they can blame you 😂😂😂 but seriously playing her with your deck really clicked She-Hulk for me, and i realized i was under estimating and under piloting her the whole time before so thank you again and again for breathing life into She-Hulk for me not just in terms of fun but power. It’s crazy how much better she is against stalwart versus steady. Maybe one day there will be an upgrade like “attach to the villain, they gain stalwart and -1 attack.” That would really fun and bonkers with She-Hulk
@@webwarriorfanatic That is blame I will gladly accept She really was the major puzzle I wanted to solve as she hit EVERYTHING I like about the game. Fun draw, form switching, a neat alter-ego ability. You helped me with the final puzzle piece for sure.
Plus I just adore She-Hulk (Dan Slott era and ESPECIALLY the recent Rainbow Rowell run. I ENCOURAGE every She-Hulk fan to read the Rainbow Rowell run).
It's amazing how just having the right complimenting deck can make a character click. Funny enough her and Colossus are siblings in playstyle, flipping a lot, utilizing inherit durability (Rec+HP vs Tough) annnnnd they share something MAJOR in common: People try to force them into weaker version of other character's decks/play styles and do badly.
For Colossus I found Justice (ESPECIALLY Lay Down the Law) feels so good with him over Protection annnd She-Hulk I found 'Pool and the rest is history.
She-Hulk with a few buffs to her weakest cards(as we discussed) could easily hit the A-Tier.
Also that would be a neat idea, a card to empower the villain in exchange for buffing yourself. Perhaps a card like "Just you and me!" if there are no allies or minions the villain gains stalwart and -2 ATK. 🤔
@@RitsyReelz Ohh that is very thematic I like that player card concept. It's funny because before I played She-Hulk and Colossus, I did not want to play either of them lol. Honestly I had such a narrow mindset when I first started playing Marvel Champions that I was pretty much planning to never play certain heroes... but I'm so glad I did because both of them are apart of some of my favorite heroes. It was really just not knowing how to play them. That's what makes this game so great, the collaboration, the learning, I love it all!
Great list! I have no strong opinions about any of the picks either way, but I felt they were all well, reasoned and presented
Thanks Josh! I know this isn’t your cup of tea but i always appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment :)
Great video as always. I am quite aligned with your ranking and happy to see some of my favorites very high (Cable, Cyclop, Bishop, Ironheart). I will give Colossus another try using your video as a tutorial and also play more expert games. Where would you put Maria Hill based on the info we got so far ?
Thanks Max! Glad to see at least 1 person aligned with me haha :)
I was extremely unmotivated to play Colossus because he looked weak, but after playing him I realized how wrong I was. For Maria Hill the hero, she looks A to S tier (and I don't want her to be that strong!). The only thing holding her back would be the difficulty in getting setup and how much of a tempo hit it would be to actually play 6 cost supports. That being said, she could just ignore the 6 cost supports and go for Helicarriers/Tac Teams. She looks to be a bit of a wild card because we've never had a hero who doesn't have key events that help them thwart/attack before
War Machine: nice that you addressed the Float like a Butterfly combo, but now you can also do this with the Cyclops ally and you don't need to rely on confusion anymore. Just build up counters and keep the board clean until you can defeat both villain stages in one turn. Retaliate is still your worst enemy, though.
Phoenix: I like her gameplay a lot, but it feels like a "weaker" version of Psylocke's, though. Anyways, I like the management of the Phoenix Force counters: it's like restraining yourself until it's time to pop and burn everything.
Gambit: I'm currently playing him with SHIELD justice. That archetype is good for thwarting but requires some setup, which I find fine with Gambit as you can just go to hero and tank damage, building counters and using his events to chip away the villains health or deal with minions. Once everything is set, you can safely go to alter ego and let the SHIELD things do the thwarting (or even the damage if you are using the more aggressive SHIELD cards).
Good point with Cyclops ally, he goes crazy for War Machine. The only issue would be building out enough ammo counters and flipping down despite high villain pressure, but I agree that's really good for War Machine.
Phoenix has a great tempo to her I agree. Not sure if I'd say she's a weaker Psylocke, but I do think Psylocke is stronger too lol.
Gambit with SHIELD justice is very good!
Gotta grab the popcorn for this one!! Thank you so much, Web!
Hahaha thanks as always boardgametime! Hope you enjoy this one :)
You just made me notice that Spider-Ham's Cartoon Physics is an upgrade and not an event! It's so much better now! Because of the similarity with Backflip, it looks like I've always assumed it was an event when playing him, without reading that part...
Haha nice!!! He's going to feel crazy now. That happens to everybody, I know I've done my fair share of playing an upgrade thinking it was an event and vice versa
I’m so happy for that Colossus ranking. He’s absolutely one of the most underrated heroes because his play style is so different from other heroes.
People want to play him in protection and stay in hero form, and that seems intuitive, but as you say, he’s soooo much better when flipping down every single turn.
Because of that, he uses Moira McTaggert better than anyone else. Like she was made for him. She’s basically a cheap Avengers Mansion for him.
I also appreciate that he doesn’t need any status effects to succeed. In fact, he’s better off without them because he wants to be attacked. He draws cards when losing a tough, so he’s actually hobbled by status effects. I’ve heard people argue that Steel Fist is his strongest card because it stuns and confuses for cheap. But I’d argue it’s actually his weakest card, because he does not want those statuses. I still play the card for burst damage when needed, but I never give up a tough for the status.
I could go on and on about Colossus for hours. He’s by far my #1 hero in the game.
Oh, and for the record, he consistently beats expert Venom Goblin. Not as easily as expert Magneto, who is kind of a joke to Colossus. But pretty handily.
I knew you’d appreciate the Colossus ranking, Mitch! I’ve never been so wrong about a hero then with Colossus. He’s all that. I absolutely agree he’s a Venom Goblin killer. It’s ironic that he takes care of Magneto so handedly too
Got any deck links?
@@miahshirreffs i think Mitch probably has a deck but this is the more generic list i used to defeat Ronan/Magneto: marvelcdb.com/deck/view/769992?deck_name=Metal%20Up%21
I would love to see how you play him
@@falcowolf27 not sure if this is directed at me or Mitch, but here’s a Ronan game with Colossus: th-cam.com/video/jxCnBXK-5B4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=LAUgcb_twGo9r9L0
Thank you. Excellent tier list!
Thank you! Glad you think so 😁🙏
Generally agree on most of the list... Definitaly agree on Cable. A true force of nature. I'll move Venom, SP//dr to A tier... And Black Widow to B tier. But most difefrences arrive from personal experience... Thanks for the video!
Thanks Oreste! That's totally fair. Glad to see we mostly agree :)
The only way I’ve been able to make Thor “work” for me is by playing him in leadership and just put out cheap 1 or 2 cost ally’s to cheese the game with “Strength In Numbers”. It allows me to build out quickly and draw enough cards to either throw that Hammer or whatever the situation requires. I played him last night with my gf who was playing Ghost Spider and I literally carried her through the first half of the game against Apocalypse II. We both laughed about it because she usually never has an issue playing Ghost Spider and typically carries me. 😂
Hahaha nice! Love that. I think Squared Off is really really good for Thor. It lets Thor bring more expensive and draw extra cards on top. Definitely plan on trying that soon
@@webwarriorfanatic
Never heard of that card but yeah, sounds like a lot of fun! Maybe I’ll be able to bring the Iron Man to the party so it feels more like a true Avengers deck.
@
For real, me and all of my Avenger allies were dog-piling on Apocalypse and thwarting everything like crazy and I’m looking over at my girlfriend like, “whenever you wanna make a move, I can’t hold him off by myself!” Hahahahha. Good times 🤌.
@@lightninlad that’s peak Marvel Champions right there! Btw Squared Off is a new card that came in Magneto’s hero pack. I actually had the honor of revealing it :)
th-cam.com/video/kNDl_CjBWQk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GpzcxvpuNDM6ry7L
Excellent ranking criteria using Mag, VenGob & Ronan victory consistency 👍🏻. I think ability to ready is much more powerful than stun & confuse because what makes the most difficult villians the most difficult is steady & stalwart.
Thanks Gnarl! I agree. Stun and confuse is weird to evaluate in this game because it can be overpowered in true solo against a villain like Ultron, balanced in a multiplayer game against Venom Goblin, then completely useless against Thanos
This is the perfect time to do this! End of a wave. End of an era. Plus 5 year anniversary of the game.
Hey Jasco! Yess, goodbye X-Men 👋🥲
@@webwarriorfanatic I've enjoyed the X-Men(obviously) but I'm definitely feeling that they "dragged" longer than the rest of the game has so far. It's bittersweet in a way.
@@jasco.gaming i got into Marvel Champions during NeXt Evolution so this is all I’ve ever known lol. That being said, I’m very excited for more releases per year. Hoping FFG can continue this game for many years to come!
I really liked your thought out breakdown of this list. I only have a few major differences(hero moves more than 1 tier in either direction) I would put Scarlet Witch C, Spectrum D, Cyclops B, X-23 S.
Thanks Penguin! I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I agree with the ordering of most of that. I gotta try X-23 again because i think I’m missing something with her
Super interesting to get your perspective after you managed to play all of them (even the dreaded Hawkeye ).
And the way you did it, going by results and with a focus of the hardest villains, is perfectly on brand. On brand for the guy who drove off D20 from focusing on gameplay content so heavily 😇
Lol nooooo stop saying that 😢
@webwarriorfanatic okay, but he made that joke. I just ran with it🤭
@@YourTamedLion hahaha 😂
I’m glad someone else is sane enough to see cable is S, as well as venom, dr strange, and Captain America in more realistic placements. Personally, I think x-23 is a little better, maybe middle of A. And I also think angel might be rated too highly. I think angel has a hard cowling on his power and he’s either strong enough or not strong enough, I have a hard time creating decks where he can build out and also take care of the board state.
I think a lot of heroes go up a rank or two when paired with pool: magik, wolverine, star lord, spider woman, even x-23 becomes close to s. And then with Shadowcat or ghost spider they need protection to move up. Idk if the heroes should be rated in general or when considering only their best decks. If we only consider best decks I would move up heroes like Shadowcat and x-23 a tier, and move magik within her tier to a higher spot. Either way good video with good reasoning for your rankings
Hahaha thanks Bradley. You call it sane i think others would call it something else. You make good points-Angel in particular is one that i see myself wavering on. He’s either strong enough or not strong enough is a great description, i may have been fooled by the times where he was strong enough. Personally I ranked by their best decks, but universal decks that can be brought to any scenario. I agree ‘Pool is a game changer for many of those heroes
Always love your vids and perspective. I think this makes sense for your criteria, but for me I'd change a lot of rankings. I play multiplayer (2 player/ handed mostly) and I value overall power and not just the "big 3". Ms Marvel jumps way up to the top of A, she's a monster in multiplayer. I would also value stun/ confuse more, even if they have steady/stalward, it's good for minions (stunning minions is actually kind of a thing in multiplayer) I'd also put major support champs like Storm and Rogue higher
That's totally fair. For me I value stun/confuse up to the A tier, but a hero needs something independent from status effects to go from A to S tier. I agree Storm/Rogue/Ms. Marvel make a jump in multiplayer, especially Storm! Thanks heroicskeleton, I appreciate you seeing where I'm coming from even though you disagree. I can see where you're coming from too and respect your criteria for how you play. I'd concede that 2 player is "more balanced" even though I enjoy true solo most :)
I strongly think FFG should do a parallel investigator type run from Arkham with this game, and right out of the gate release an alternate identity card for Hulk. It’s absolutely ridiculous that arguably the most powerful hero in the Marvel Universe is arguably the weakest hero in this game. I think they just majorly over corrected when designing him and were too concerned of making him overpowered.
I’d love to see an alt version of his identity that’s actually just really bonkers and overpowered. We all know the issues with the hero side but I also think the Banner side is a missed opportunity. Give him 7 hand size and some thwarting potential, maybe spend a mental to remove 2 threat or something. I want a version of his identity card that’s hilariously strong to just make up for how weak he is currently!
That would be interesting! I definitely wouldn’t mind that. The AE side of the card is really the only thing i wish was different. Hulk feels like Hulk with the 0 thwart, 3 attack, 4 handsize but Banner does feel restricted. Giving him a 7 handsize would be bonkers haha
Excellent Analysis!
Thanks Prufrock!!
Great video, thanks for posting.
Thanks Dave! Hope you enjoy this one :)
Awesome video as usual! I do have some placements that I disagree with, but that's why we play the game, to form our own opinions :) You know I have to put Ironheart as S tier after winning the Heroic Magneto challenge with her ^^
Thanks man! Yea i totally respect that, and agree that’s what makes this game so great :)
Nice list! There are plenty of heroes that I like more than stronger options (like Domino over Cable).
Thanks Sardonic! I feel that, i wish Spidey was the strongest hero in the game :)
You need to play more X-23, especially in protection. And no, you absolutely don't need Repurpose, I never use it with her. To me, she's S tier, but most people rate her at least A. She's my single highest win rate hero besides Spider-Ham. Storm being in the B tier doesn't feel right either, nor is SPDR, they're at least A, some might argue SPDR is S. Venom in the B also doesn't feel right. He's not as dominant as he was, so he might not be S, but seeing him in the same tier as Black Panther and She-Hulk doesn't feel right either. I know Peter is your guy, so I won't say anything.
But honestly, these are only a few heroes in the grand scheme of things and I agree with the vast majority of them. This is still one of the better lists I've seen, or I should say, the one I agree the most with. Good stuff!
Thanks Kazuchi, I'm honored this is the list you agree most with haha. X-23, SP//dr, and Venom in my opinion are sooo good with A tier villains and in multiplayer, but I felt that against the most cutthroat villains in true solo, they're more limited. That being said I'm open to exploring them more and my opinion may change in the future. X-23 in particular I'm really interested in playing again soon, I think she's gotten some really cool new cards
Great list and video as usual I will say sucks war machine is not higher but I understand why he isn't just great hero and one my favorite hero's in the game he may not have the perfect sustained or burst damage or great survivability but I love that he can go possibly have infinite ammo counters if agent 13 and munition bunker in on the field and if everything goes right he can hit very hard and deal with scheme cards fast
Thanks laffywaffy! War Machine has some glaring weaknesses, but i agree his peak potential is very high with infinite ammo counters readying up Shoulder Cannon for infinite damage. Hopefully new SHIELD support comes out that buffs him and gives him more flexibility with ammo counters in the way of moving all purpose counters 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
War Machine is in my top 10. Even then I will put C too. He can burst but he lacks defense, recovery, thwart, or status control. Yes he has tough but that requires AE. However, he can kill villains like ironheart with minimal effort. Something that can’t be said by most hero
@@Champion_Leon i like him too. Interaction between hero and AE side is a lot of fun. Honestly removing the “forced” response would make him really strong
@ That would be super strong. However, for like 3 months, I was playing War Machine not knowing the errata and it was a fun way to play him. Fixes bunch of problem for damage and thwart. Also, timing so you can avoiding deck out is really fun
@@Champion_Leon you’re probably right maybe taking out the forced response is too powerful haha. How did he play with unlimited put backs? Do you feel like it felt unbalanced delaying decking out or did he actually just feel smooth 😂😂
I’ve been playing around with Thor leadership now that it is surfaced post Magneto. It very much seems to elevate the character. A 0 cost card to get Thor a minion to also drip the cost of an ally by 3 is really nice!
Good point! I’m inclined to move him up too, but still hesitant if it jumps up all the way up to B tier
I may be biased in that I’ve been using him in 2 player. I think he definitely goes up outside of solo now.
@@kevincarter4782 Multiplayer i think he’s always been solid, but im not sure if Squared Off is as good outside of solo since it accelerates the encounter deck for 2 players 😅 i haven’t played blue Thor in multiplayer yet so not sure. Your experience has been positive?
It’s been amazing so far, although I haven’t tested it in deep waters yet. While it does accelerate the deck a bit, I was fully set up by the end of going through my deck one time, and I cycled through my deck as fast as the Magneto player I was with.
@ thanks for the sharing! I’m looking forward to trying a 2 handed game with him 👌🏻
Great video. What player size do you play the most? I play almost exclusively 4 player so my list would be very different it seems.
Thank you 😁 i primarily play true solo
Sorry for the double post, but how do you feel now about power creep?
The S-Tier has 2 first wave heroes, but it’s pretty heavily weighted toward waves 6-8. And the first wave heroes are now low in S-Tier.
And there aren’t any C or D tier heroes after wave 4.
Good point, i would say overall newer heroes have a higher floor and a similar ceiling (obviously according to my list Cable and Ham have a higher ceiling) But i think if you take any given wave and compare it to the core set, it would average out to be pretty similar. I’m probably not being objective but i still wouldn’t conclude there’s power creep since no hero card or ability has been outclassed (ie 3 cost for 9 damage) but i admit there probably won’t be anymore C or D tier heroes in the future
@@webwarriorfanatic I think I’d agree. We’ve seen a few more powerful heroes, but mostly they’ve just become more consistently B to A tier. I’m pretty impressed with how they’ve been able to flatten the power curve over the last several cycles.
@@mitch-TO it is VERY impressive and I’m grateful they’ve been able to do that. I’m worried about Maria Hill being too powerful, but i trust ffg that she’ll be balanced lol. I’m sure the practicality and loss of tempo for playing a 6 cost support is factored in
I think its more that they are more consistently good, then actual power creep. It says more about how the designers learned how to balance the champions over time than anything. Having all the new champs in A/B going forward would be good
@@heroicskeleton1566 yes absolutely. That's a good way to summarize it. A lot of the heroes in Age of Apocalypse were B tier imo and I like that, but they feel very sophisticated despite being average power wise.
Great list and explanations for your choices. I still have one question that puzzle me, and I would be glad to hear your thought process.
We do -- my buddy and I -- usually see Venom and Captain America heroes are interchangeable. They roughly do the same thing, they are both pretty good defender with lots of resiliency/survivability, both have good resource generation on board, they roughly have the same draw back: card draw and damage are not top notch. The main difference being them is their traits: one can lean into guardians stuff, the other one in the avengers stuff. Both traits having good allies and supports.
So why are they so different in power ranking in your tiers list? What makes "Cap" so much "better" than Venom?
Thank you for explaining.
Thanks Albert, i appreciate that. The biggest difference between Cap and Venom in my mind are statuses. Against stalwart/steady enemies, Heroic Strike isn’t as good, but Cap still has every other card in his kit being good value helping control the board. Grasping Tendrils being 2 cost to block an attack without stun is rough, and Venom’s thwart event is also bad value without the confuse. In addition to that, Venom has to balance playing his weapons and resource generators. Cap starts off being able to thwart/attack 4 with his hero ability and can just get down resources and allies from the get go too
@@webwarriorfanatic Thank you for the explanation. So now I think you "slightly undervalue" Miles Morales, or maybe you misread his Aracrobatics card. Miles struggle against stalwart for sure, so that does not really change your ranking.
But I do think Miles is very efficient against Steady, because it is much easier to have a status card roaming around against a Steady villain, than against a regular villain. That means Aracrobatics, deal 5 damage almost everytime, and sometime 8. That permits to gun down last stage of a steady villain much more efficiently than against a regular villain. He effectively increase his damage output against steady villain, and that is very rare feature in the game.
@@alberttaco3668 Yes! I believe i mentioned in the video that Arachnobatics is a dud card against stalwart but I may have forgotten to mention that it’s more consistent against steady 😅 i think Miles still does better against non-steady enemies but his damage output is absolutely more consistent against steady
I really do applaud of your work on this video. Even just playing enough Champions to confidently make the list is an achievement unto itself.
But man, I can never tell if you are just pulling schtick to get engagement.
First of all, this list essentially boils down to "Can this hero defeat Ronan or Venom Goblin on Expert?", and that presumption has so many holes.
Also, you ranked a bunch of Heroes low because they rely on status effects to be effective (like Hawkeye and Spider-Woman).
I will say that I think it's cool to see somebody's opinion who hasn't been in the game it's inception. Obviously, there is some nostalgia for the veteran players.
Thanks i think? lol I’m not sure if this is a good thing or not. I’ll say this, the engagement for this video would be the same whether or not i have “hot takes” in it or not. There are no hot takes in the thumbnail or title, and it’s a tier list video. It would be better for me to just lie and agree with the common community perception on these heroes, I would get the same amount of views and get no hate lol.
In regards to the most difficult villains, yes that’s my main criteria. If I’m talking about the greatest nba players I’m not going to say “Michael Jordan beat me in a 1v1 game faster than LeBron did.” I’m going to compare them to the best of the best (in this situation, I’m Crossbones lol). Everyone has their own criteria and I’ve heard people say their criteria is the best hero in standard mode which is valid because that’s how they play the game. This is mine 🤷🏻♂️
WWF is turning into the Otzdarva of Marvel Champions. :P
Lol idk who that is but hopefully not something bad...
@@webwarriorfanatic A compliment I figure. Otzdarva is considered the most kind/wholesome content creator in a pretty toxic community(Dead by Daylight) who is famous for putting out long breakdown, analysis and gameplay videos that really help the community.
@@webwarriorfanatic He is basically THE content creator for Dead By Daylight. He will randomly make a video like "Hello, friends. Today I made an easy 3 hour video breaking down all 350 add ons in the game".
I totally agree with Spider-man, he is “Amazing” (pun intended) 🎉
You and me are very cultured 🤝🤝😂
Really great list based on beating expert Ronan, Magneto and VG in solo. But I'm affraid that Marvel Champions isn't only about defeating these three villains in solo expert mode. I get your perspective, but the chosen indicators are too limited for an universal power ranking list. Nevertheless I enjoyed the video very much.
And I want to appreciate how much your speaking skills have improved lately. Good job!
Thank you! It’s been a long and tough journey speaking on camera so i really appreciate that lol. In regards to the list, i can see how focusing on the big 3 can be narrow minded, but to me it’s the testament to the hero’s universal power. Cable can take down the big 3 easily? He takes down everyone even more easily. If a hero can take down 90% of heroes easily but struggles with the top 3 that matters more to me. I’m glad you still enjoyed this video even if we disagree on the criteria :)
We need a Spider-Ham game play to see his full potential!!! 🐽🐽🐽
I got you: th-cam.com/video/4Msq0LY-Y38/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HBufObSptl2JCdeo
66 damage OTK on expert Venom Goblin 😤💪
Some takes I agree with, some I disagree with but ultimately I was entertained and you provided valid reasons for your choices so I cant argue this is a well reasoned list. Im glad you gave Bishop and Adam Warlock their due respect as they are powerhouses. As someone who has piloted Rocket through the toughest encounters in the game in multiple aspects (and watched Descry dominate a multi player game with him) I think you've really undervalued his economy. He has draw effects (albeit conditional) on Alter and Hero, a double resource that effectively allows you to set your next draw, noone else has the combination of genius trait (alter) and guardian (hero) giving you access to Moon Girl, Ingenuity and Knowwhere, and he can easily get 3THW. I will admit there is a steep learning curve with Rocket that can lead to frustrating and underwhelming gameplay experiences if you dont utilise him properly - he is squishy, needs to use his alter-ego to gain advantage, and has one of the most unique damage profiles in the game both numerically and source (this can feel clunky if you are wasting charge counters)
Thanks Thomas! I really like Rocket but am pretty down on him these days. Have you seen my Rocket vs Expert Magneto playthrough? I think he’s definitely capable of some cool things, but i don’t think he can handle Expert Ronan in true solo at all. I might have to revisit him and maybe my opinion will change. Glad you enjoyed this video overall and you’re the only comment I’ve seen give Adam Warlock his props haha. I agree he’s a powerhouse!
@@webwarriorfanaticI have Rocket as a high B btw, I just thought mid C was low given his capabilities and how easily I rolled MTS expert solo with him. Ronan was tough but doable with him. Warlock is my gatekeepr for A tier, Dr Strange my gatekeeper for S. Im experimenting with a new Adam Warlock deck (Squared Off, Looking for Trouble, Come at me Bub, Face The Past and OWOA) Squared off into Karma is a neat combo in the deck
@@thomasmcintosh1452 Nice! Those are some fun synergies with Warlock. He could be a really powerful minion slayer with all the across aspect options now
@@webwarriorfanatic Yeh Warlock is one of those heroes that will always interest me or spark creative deck builds, I think with his shell (hero kit) being so good you can really tailor your deck to any purpose, his flexible deckbuilding also means that as the card pool expands he is only ever likely to trend upwards
@@thomasmcintosh1452 absolutely. He’s one of the strongest build out heroes in the game, although a bit unconventional
Would the B/C tier lists be different in a 3-4 player game, vs solo game?
In my opinion almost every hero on this list would be in the same tier at higher player counts with the exception of heroes like Rogue, Cyclops, Cable who get better because they have mechanics that are not fully utilized in true solo
34:13 😂😂😂 no worries buddy
Hey Josh! Haha Drax players have my respect ✊
@ lol, you know my feelings on power, not too concerned with it. I still think he’s the most fun hero against the other 90% of villains 😀
@@GetUpandGame it doesn’t happen often for me but if im at full HP with max vengeance counters i cant deny that’s peak fun and power 😂💯
@ well full hp is a big ask lol but getting full counters is super duper fun!
@@GetUpandGame haha true but i do believe he can stay relatively healthy against a lot of scenarios. It’s really just those 10% that completely screw him over 🤦🏻♂️
Is this ranked mostly based on true solo?
Yes, but most of these rankings translate to multiplayer
As one of She-Hulk's biggest defenders, the placement definitely is fitting.
People definitely overrate how bad she is and she's aged extremely well as the game has gone along. I think that core box experience is still hurting that general perception.
Absolutely agreed! As the game has developed she’s gotten much better and Split Personality is one of the best identity specific cards in the game!
Is confirmed you can discard both of bishops upgrade to get 16 damage l? For some reason I thought you could only use one at a time
Hey Tito, yea I’ve heard from a few people that there was an official ruling on it and it stacks. I tried looking for it and am unable to find it though
Thanks. As if he needed any help at dealing damage. I love bisjop
I always hear that Strange and Scarlet Witch were the strongest ever. Strange has a unique problem in that he relies too much on his invocation deck and doesn't care what aspect he is in. Scarlet Witch is a little inconsistent but she's a lot of fun. One of the ones I barely hear anything about it Quicksilver. I've never lost a scenario when i play as Quicksilver lol
Eyy Quicksilver!!! I see the appeal of Scarlet Witch but her chaotic nature is not for me haha. But when the Hex Bolts and Molecular Decay hit it’s 💯💯💯💯💯
@@webwarriorfanatic Did you do a list for villains? I'd love to check out like, a "whose best for learning / fighting / more fun" kinda deal with them
@@zylokun Yea! th-cam.com/video/9CYz2dFkkzg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Web-WarriorFanatic
I think Wolverine should be higher. The first time i beat rohnan was with Wolverine just rushing the living crap out of him in solo.
That’s valid. I agree he really excels at rush but i tend to rate that style of play a little lower because i think it’s less consistent
I’m surprised Miles isn’t S tier for you I think he is up there with Spider-Man and in some aspects I feel he can be better than Spider-Man at times
Miles in my experience is stronger against the top villains that aren't Ronan/Venom Goblin/Magneto. Like he stomps on Ultron/Mutagen Formula/etc so i can definitely relate to what you're saying in the times he's stronger than Peter. It's just that both Peter and Miles have a 100% win rate against Ultron when playing with powerful decks and not making mistakes so that factors less for me than the higher difficulty scenarios
Now a Tier List with Fun of playing
I have it here: th-cam.com/video/jK3sLhEvT38/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Web-WarriorFanatic
Hawkeyes mockingbird is one of the strongest card in the game, with shield supports and suit up to get her early he can trivialize ronan.
I wouldn’t say he can trivialize Ronan. I’d say Mockingbird is his only shot to not get demolished lol but even then she costs his whole hand to play out every turn
@@webwarriorfanatic not with double ressources, governement liaison and avenger tower.
Is this list mostly focused on true solo plays?
Yes, but i believe this list translates to multiplayer. Any hero that lacks versatility suddenly has the breathing room to play how they want in multiplayer because the other heroes can cover for them. Hero cards that are more situational have more uses in multiplayer because there are more encounter cards (and more minions and side schemes as a byproduct). Weaker heroes usually don’t get stronger than the stronger heroes at higher player counts because the stronger heroes also get better
@@webwarriorfanatic I definitely agree with the sentiment that multiplayer raises all heroes. Mostly you'd see some shifting around within the tiers. However, I think there are definitely a few, particularly in the lower tiers, that would jump tiers all together. For example, Shadowcat's full-cancel defense abilities have a much larger impact in multiplayer. It was a fun video. Thanks for sharing!
@@astrodar2336 thanks Astrodar! I absolutely agree. That’s a really good point, Shadowcat may jump up the most in multiplayer where she can safely flip if she gets her obligation and can really focus on defending, leaving minions and side schemes to others (helping out here and there)
Sad to see X23 so low. Her sidekick deck is one of the most OP decks I’ve ever played.
Her sidekick deck is great but if Honey Badger is hypothetically buffed to like 5 attack/10 hit points and you pull her obligation, all of that goes away. It's too risky in my opinion especially against the higher difficult scenarios
@@webwarriorfanatic Yeah, I do have that happen from time to time. But a lot of the deck is built around either getting honey badger, readying/healing, and clarity of purpose for damage. Honey's buffs are just icing on the cake. I don't know of another deck that is doing 9-10 damage consistent/minimum turn 1.
@@nwinkler07 i think X-23 got alot of buffs from Magneto’s hero pack and will be trying her again with a Honey Badger recursion deck (so even if the obligation comes out we can just play her back again). In regards to the 10 damage turn 1 a lot of heroes can do that in my experience, like Spider-Man playing a SWK + basic activation or Wolverine Claws to Lunging Strike + basic activation.
@@webwarriorfanatic I hear you - you rank by their kit alone. I think there is definitely a case for A or B tier. With some leadership cards I would say she is S tier. But, that's just my humble opinion. Stoked to hear your thoughts (and recommendations) when you try her out again.
And Spiderman - Tier S???? I haven't touched him since core set came out. I'll have to give him another shot. What's your favorite Spidey deck?
Here's to hoping this next wave gives some love to our older heroes!
@@nwinkler07 I really enjoy this deck: marvelcdb.com/decklist/view/37827/weaving-threads-1.0
I have gameplay with it in the notes of the decklist. Basically we flip down to alter-ego and go crazy recurring Moon Girl and suiting up
I definitely disagree with Nightcrawler's ranking, but only partially. In protection he's tanking pretty huge hits. I played two handed against Ronan with NC Protection and Magneto Aggression, and both were tanking big hits. I even blocked off a 10 damage attack against Ronan (with some help from side step and jump flip). So I guess in other aspects NC is probably B, but in protection I find him solidly in A. Not sure how you'd evaluate tiers anyway, do you just go with how well they do in their best deck(s)?
Yes their best decks but in a general sense. So if protection is Nightcrawler’s best deck, how does that fare against Venom Goblin without heavily teching for him? I think he struggles removing the massive amount of threat Venom Goblin generates and takes a bit too long setting up the green perfect defense engine against Ronan (i have both playthroughs documented on the channel).
@@webwarriorfanatic I think it's fair to say there might be some struggle, but I wouldn't say any more than Adam Warlock or Antman would, in my experience with those heroes against that scenario. We all have our own play experiences for sure
@@Rathamak Yea there could be things I’m missing with my experience. But you gotta check out my Adam Warlock games! I’m surprised no one is saying he’s underrated, he’s really really strong
@@webwarriorfanatic Will do! I actually like Adam quite a bit, and he's my wife's go-to hero
@@Rathamak nice! Maybe she can talk some sense into you haha 😂 jk
I have more trouble with Loki than Magneto.
That's fair, I can see the case for him being a more difficult villain. In my experience, Loki is more grindy but after stabilizing he doesn't present much pressure. Magneto can still attack for 7+ damage multiple times in a turn while exhausting your hero/allies so they can't block so for me he's a bit dangerous even if I have a fully built out board
Interesting. I found it the opposite when it came to the 3 big build out characters. I found spdr the best and fastest to build out and get going while iorn heart the slowest to the point that I feel by the time I reach level 3 any other hero was gonna win the game anyway.
Interesting! You’re not the first who ive heard say that after i posted this video so there may be something I’m missing with SP//dr. I may have to revisit her and see if i can build her out faster/safer
@webwarriorfanatic she on honestly only needs 2 extra interfaces down to have a better economy and power then the average hero.
@@metascrub285 the 3 handsize is rough in my experience even when fully built out. If she draws only resource cards or 0 cost cards even if her suit is fully built out there’s not much she can do for that specific turn. And resource cards are vital to help pay for her upgrades early game
Spider-Man in S-tier but Shadowcat in B-tier is madness.
"Backflip is the best defense event in the game" but Shadowcat's Quick Shift is strictly better. Same cost, same damage prevention always except it also conditionally draws 2 cards and can be used to defend for other players in multiplayer and Allies in scenarios like Sabertooth.
Phased and Confused is nearly identical to Webbed Up except that it costs 1 less.
Airwalk is more reliable and just generally better than Spider-Tracer.
Phased Strike is usually worse than Swinging Web Kick but is commonly exceptional value.
Cards like Shadowcat Surprise and Ready to Rumble let her consistently ready with a decent stat-line giving her excellent versatility which you mentioned valuing greatly and her ability to circumvent guard/patrol only makes her even more reliable.
She has the same hand-size and only 1 less hit point. Kitty's Room isn't quite as strong as Aunt May for recovery but her ability to ignore damage makes her probably more durable.
I'm not even really trying to say Shadowcat is S-tier. I think she's strong but I don't have much experience with a ton of heroes to compare. I am trying to say she's basically exactly as powerful as Spider-Man.
The first option for Quick Shift is seemingly the same as Backflip. For the second option, Shadowcat is already taking no damage, it just allows her to not exhaust (Spidey doesn’t need to exhaust for Backflip anyways) and she draws 2 cards (but has to play the actual Quick Shift card so it’s effectively drawing 1 card. Quick Shift’s timing is also worse, you must play it when the villain attacks so if you’re facing Klaw and his boosts end up being 0, you just Quick Shifted 1 damage. Backflip’s timing is when the damage is seen, so if Klaw hits for 1 damage, i wont play Backflip, if Klaw hits for 7 i can choose to play Backflip then. Backflip can also be played in alter-ego for villains who attack alter-egos (Ronan, Juggernaut) and Quick Shift cant be used if Shadowcat’s obligation is out. After taking a deeper look, Backflip is clearly more flexible.
Almost all the cards you mentioned for Shadowcat are situational and have little board impact if the conditions are not met. Finally, these 2 heroes’ economy is not close. Spider-Man has Scientist, Spider-Sense, and Web-Shooters and Kitty Pryde only has her Solid Mass form resource which can only be used in Solid Mass form. Spider-Man can play events/allies to handle multiple minions/side schemes. If Shadowcat defeats 1 minion or 1 side scheme her economy is often used up
@@webwarriorfanatic I'll take the alter-ego backflip. That's a very solid point I hadn't caught and is certainly great when it comes up. I won't call the activation timing better though. Seeing the damage first is nice and certainly tips the scales a little in true solo but all that allows you to do is not play a card that has no other use. Saving it for your next turn is a hit to your economy so you're banking on a second activation against you. It doesn't help if the villain activates twice and they were both strong attacks. Quick Shift's timing is much stronger in multiplayer but I know this was geared toward solo.
Downplaying the second option to draw 2 cards is crazy though. Not exhausting is basically the same as a ready so if you ignore the damage avoidance effect then it's a 0 cost ready and draw 2. People will call Desperate Defense a staple for protection but this option blows that out of the water.
I absolutely disagree that "Almost all the cards you mentioned for Shadowcat are situational and have little board impact if the conditions are not met." Most of the cards mentioned were direct comparisons to Spider-Man's cards where I would argue Shadowcat is coming out ahead besides Phased Strike which I believe is on marginally worse (6 damage is not little board impact even if it's under the curve).
Airwalk is not situational. Either you are in phased mass form already or a basic attack will get you there and with access to 3 copies Shadowcat Surprise and 3 copies of Ready to Rumble she is very resilient to stuns. Certainly less situational than Spider-Tracer. Those 2 ready cards are also not situational at all.
I do agree that Spider-Man has better economy. Spider-Sense is a strong hero ability but scientist can only be used in AE which limits it mostly to set-up cards which I would argue is worse than solid mass form which can more easily be used for board impact, especially later on. Web-Shooters are almost more tempo cards than economy cards though as you're trading 2 resources now for 3 resources spread across 3 turns after which you'll have to draw them again which might not be possible until your 3rd deck cycle. I wouldn't discount the value Shadowcat can extract out of cards like Toe to Toe, Powerful Punch, Get Behind me!, Surprise Attack and Lay Down the Law.
On the whole, I'm not trying to argue that Shadowcat is better than Spider-Man. I'm trying to say that if Spider-Man is middle S-tier then she is absolutely not at the bottom of B-tier. Also, you should play more Shadowcat because I think she's pretty similar to Spider-Man, the Spider-Man of the x-men perhaps, but has some much weirder/more complicated interactions that can be very satisfying.
@@insultingbagel That’s fair, i can definitely use more plays with Shadowcat. The biggest difference between her and Spidey to me is that Shadowcat’s kit is streamlined-she is good at defending and wants to be be defending. But put her in a situation where defending is extremely disadvantageous or flat out not viable and it’s rough. That’s what i mean by not versatile/flexible. Spidey can kind of do whatever and that’s why i see them as very different. But if you’re saying she’s the Peter of the X-Men I’ll have to give her another try and see!
@insultingbagel WWF makes great videos but has huge blind spots for a couple of heroes, which he is allowed to have of course 'cause it's his channel.
Nah from your ganeplay it's cyclops. Literally seen the best ever rohnan run from you with cyclops having control over the game all game. Rohan didn't pressure your cyclops deck what so ever.
For the strongest hero?! It’s definitely close I think Cyclops is in the conversation forsure
@@webwarriorfanatic yeah strongest hero
It is such an interesting thought right. Like what is harder heroic 2 Ultron, or Expert Ronan? Captain America can beat heroic 2 Ultron, I am not sure Peter Parker can.
It depends, but Captain America counters Ultron because of his retaliate 1 taking out drone minions
@webwarriorfanatic yeah he is great against ultron, I would argue he is far better than spiderman in the vast majority of the scenarios. The scenarios we have come to see as the hardest are in part seen as difficult simply because FFG tailored those scenarios to be more difficult for heroes like Captain America or Dr. Strange. So, yeah you can argue that Spiderman might be better against Ronan, I am not sure he is, spiderman isn't better against the other 4 scenarios in GMW. Yes they can both beat all the scenarios, but Captain America does it easier.
If you haven't played through Expert campaign GMW, I recommend giving it a shot it is a very different experience from playing the scenarios individually.
@@teraxe that’s understandable. And yes i actually plan on going through GMW with Magneto!
@@webwarriorfanatic the reason I recommend Expert campaign GMW is because the scenarios are so varied, yet so difficult and per the expert campaign rules for GMW you can't change your deck between scenarios.
@@teraxe yesss im excited to try the toughest challenge in the game (heroic 23 aside 😂)
Damn wave 3 and wave 5 are quite weak as to power.
Also can you share what deck is Adam Warlock good? Him having 1 card of a thing makes him way too inconsistent.
He needs his upgrades, almost all of them to function well.
He has a 1 cost event that can tutor, but its 2 effective resouce, even with pool triple resouce its only 1 effective resource gain. And also thats assuming you got that card out of 40 of 50 cards.
I see him as a low tier B, and thats mostly due to him being mystic.
@@IamJFD I used this deck to defeat expert Venom Goblin/Loki/Ronan all on first try: marvelcdb.com/decklist/view/36680/puppet-master-expert-venom-goblin-w-video-1.0
It's an ally swarm deck, but pretty fun synergies with Boot Camp and 'Pool triples to get set up. I have some playthroughs with it posted
I love Spider-Man too but this does feel bias.
It took every fiber of my being to not put him #1 and call it a day 😂
@webwarriorfanatic lol I hear you, Spider-Man is still awesome. Hopefully they'll make more Spider-Man related characters in the future like a Maximum Carnage big box with Venom Eddie Brock's version, and Black Cat with cards which will elevate Spider-Man's gameplay even more.
@@korhankaya6637 heck yea I can't wait for that. Maybe Black Cat will come with more mental resource synergy too
@webwarriorfanatic I can see her in multi-player doing a discard of other heroes' cards and grabbing their genius resources lol. Like she'll help a fellow hero out but do some cat burgling as payment lol
@@korhankaya6637 loll that would be a really cool concept fitting for an anti-hero
This list started making a lot more sense when I realized its not a general power tier list but a "How good are characters in true solo at rushing 3 scenarios" list.
As someone who plays 4p multiplayer more than solo, this list looks insane when viewed through that lens.
I play multiplayer every week and the top tier heroes on this list are the strongest in higher player counts as well. Also if it was about rushing in true solo against the top 3 villains, Deadpool would be #1 in S++ tier so not sure if this would make sense
@webwarriorfanatic Interesting. We also do multiplayer every week (3 regulars and a rotating 4th person who's experience varies), doing pretty much every scenario except Ronin and Nebula. Our experiences seem very different from yours on some heroes. Could just be playstyle differences idk.
Can't speak on Deadpool though. It's the only character/cards nobody in our group was interested in, so it's the only set we didn't get.
@@fromundaman That’s fair. I would say it depends on how you guys build. If your decks are coordinated, than maybe 1 player brings no thwarting because it’s covered by other players. I can definitely see the multiplayer experience varying based on that!
@@webwarriorfanatic That is pretty close to how we play. Obviously will help out wherever needed, but we generally have a dedicated aggression, justice and protection with a leadership deck to fill any gaps/carry late game.
As such it's weird to see some characters who can function in any of these roles so low while some who are a bit more specialized being so high. For example, in our experience Spiderman has not been the best 4p justice in hard scenarios in our experience, whereas characters like Black Widow, Quicksilver and Nova have performed well in any role we've put them in.
I think 3 of us have Ironheart in top 4 too, since if things go well she can use her armor 3 ability to one shot a villain phase or come real close to it.
Could definitely be playstyle differences though.
@@fromundaman That makes sense. Our group is the exact opposite so i guess that’s why we disagree so much lol. Recently we all brought Justice so we did a triple Justice team up. I’ve also done double aggression (by building out and no rushing).
Gonna defend my boy Drax here. Saying you think Drax can't defeat Expert Magneto or VG while admitting you haven't tried it doesn't make a strong case for placing him below Hulk. I respect that you have limited time and can't try everyone against everything, but a well-built Drax deck with lots of defense and selfhealing can certainly defeat the most difficult villains in the game.
I could barely defeat Thanos with Drax and Thanos isn’t in the same league as Ronan, etc. That being said, i said several absolute statements in this video because i believe im correct and i can EASILY be proven wrong. Show me any video disaproving anything i said and ill gladly concede. Everything i say is backed up by my playthroughs so i think its only fair to have evidence when saying otherwise 🤷🏻♂️
I think that is impossible to find on youtube a realistic tier list. Personally I disagree with a lot of your consideration and tier. I had played near 2000 expert/heroic matches with all 55 heroes: top ten over 50 match each, the last 10 almost 15 match each. Maybe you don't like some heroes or you played very few match with them. I agree only with the first 4 heroes ranked, just for example Captain Marvel in heroic solo mode is incredibile stronger than Spiderman and Doc Strange. About Magneto I had played only 4 expert matches (offensive and leadership) so I had to play him more for a ranking. Btw thanks for your video.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching. You definitely have much more experience playing Marvel Champions than me, and you play at a much higher difficulty setting than i do. As i play more champions i know my opinions will change on some things like they already have and maybe it will be more aligned with you in the future 😂👌🏻
Re: Venom, he has a 3/4/3 statline with his guns, gets a free resource every turn, has multiple tutors and readies in his kit and has one of the most powerful cards in the game in his Multigun. Putting him behind Shehulk on account of his events being underpowered against steady/stalwart villains while Shehulk has 4 do-nothings in Ground Stomp and Legal Practice is an extremely questionable take.
All that is great, but what matters is how a hero plays practically and not what each individual ability does. She-Hulk is stronger against the higher difficulty scenarios than Venom and if i need to bring a hero to win against a random scenario, I’d bring She-Hulk over Venom
@@webwarriorfanatic I can't see how SHulk can ever be stronger than Venom with both an inferior kit and hero hand size. I agree with you on almost all accounts in your ranking, but I believe you have a couple of huge blind spots, and SHulk is one of them. But that's fine of course, it's your personal list and I enjoyed listening to it for the most part 😊
@@svendejong8110 thanks i appreciate that Sven! Idk how to explain it but as an example in my last video where i ranked Magneto’s hero cards, i ranked most of his cards in the C tier because individually i don’t think they’re very powerful but overall i still think he’s a top tier hero
13:28 Hehe, Captain America changed genders 😂
Lol woops 😅 that wasn’t the right super soldier serum
LOL. also WW just want to apologize as I have made negative comments on your videos before but I take them all back and keep up the great work. Big fan now. @@webwarriorfanatic
@@grifbean hey Griffin, no worries it’s water under the bridge. I really appreciate that and am also sorry I definitely could’ve responded more kindly to your comments
Would you say the X-Men heroes are automatically 1 tier higher just because of all the X-synergies?
Personally I wouldn’t. I don’t believe that everyone’s strongest deck is leadership recursion and some X-Men like Nightcrawler still struggle against difficult scenarios even with a full Uncanny X-Men/Utopia lineup
@@webwarriorfanaticsorry but I don't think so. There are just too many strong and cheap X-allies (in Leadership but mostly in basic), and Uncanny X-Men is beyond broken. Getting that on the field early (through Build Support if necessary) completely trivializes any villain. That's why I think, of the X-Men, you only rated Cyclops and Magneto correctly.
Put another way, if Cyke didn't have his AE ability, he'd struggle to even make B-tier according to your criteria. That says it all for the strength of the X-allies build.
@@svendejong8110 Cyke is the best recipient of Uncanny because he can use rainbow X-Men. I don’t think the other X-Men are on the same level as him when they play weaker versions of his deck. Magneto is different because of his economy and board control, i actually prefer him in Justice than leadership as i believe giving Magneto more reliable AE access is best for the consistency of his kit
A lot of Hot Takes here, as you are probably aware. I'm not going to focus ones i think you have too high, you have strong opinions, but there are a few i think you are underrating.
SPDR is on the same level as Ironheart and IronMan, setup hero and she can pop off just as hard. Domino again, does insane things once set up. SpiderWoman is tricky, she has a tonne of decks and its easy to miss her best ones. Venom is super versatile and his cards are very powerful. Hurt by steady but to drop him to B for it seems harsh but easily on same level as Cap. And finally I really think you are missing something with ShadowCat, being essentially invincible is huge. Everyone talks about her P deck but her A and J are extremely good too, better suited for lower counts.
I also think X-23 is too low also, she can do insane things, but her gameplan can be disrupted so shrugs.
There is more I disagree with but those are the biggest.
Hey Jeremy! I’ll try to respond to your points:
SP//dr - I love Peni and agree built out she’s very strong, but do you think she builds as easily as Tony or Riri? Imo she’s a level below them in how difficult it is to build out, but she’s as strong if she can get there
Venom - comparing him to Cap against steady/stalwart is night and day imo. Cap’s only status effect is Heroic Strike, most of Venom’s cards have statuses
Shadowcat - she’s another hero i think demolishes weak scenarios but I’ve never seen gameplay of her defeating expert Ronan/Venom Goblin and i personally think it takes way too much luck to do it
X-23 - yea i agree her peak is very high, but like you said yourself getting disrupted hurts her flexibility/versatility
@@webwarriorfanatic Have you played ShadowCat? Having not seen gameplay means nothing.
I find Sp//dr easier and safer to build out with than Ironman. She’s far more functional in early game than he is but snowballs just as well.
But I get that it’s all very personal. She-hulk has always been my favorite core set hero since release and she’s one of my most played. Love her.
100% agree. Spdr is Ironman but better.
X23 and Domino are better than most of the A character on the list.
Same for Ghost Spider
I agree that venom is a overrated hero. Pretty mid power wise to me.
You and me are the only ones in the world that see that. Thank you for this 😂
@webwarriorfanatic is it me, but his cards are so low impact? His pistol increases a stat by 1, multigun takes 2 threat away nothing special.
@@metascrub285 yea, and the pistols are tied to his basic activation with is really restrictive. If he gets exhausted or status locked the pistols do nothing
I'm not sure I understand/buy your point on X-23 not being versatile. The fact that she gets multiple ways to ready is what makes up for the fact that she wants to do basic activations. She does great in every single aspect too. Am I incredibly biased as she's my favourite? Sure, in fact I skipped straight to her part of the video (will watch the rest later of course), but on first glance it baffles me to see her lower than She Hulk or Adam Warlock or Colossus and in the same tier as Iceman!
Getting the Frozen attachment or Unnatural Storm side scheme messes X-23 up! The strongest heroes in my opinion don't get shaken by specific encounter cards. My point of her not being versatile, is what if there's too much threat so she can't flip down, but she can't ready with an encounter card effect? What if she needs attack events to get rid of Venom Goblin's Advanced Glider? What if she needs a thwart event because her basic thwart stat is lowered by an encounter card attachment? Seeing at least one of these situations id not uncommon in Marvel Champions
@webwarriorfanatic in my experience her kit is so cheap that she can afford to be flexible with the rest of the deck most of the time (I do think the glider is a very poorly designed card for the record). That said, thanks for elaborating, I do agree that she can end up in a bad spot, just not often enough in practice to offset her assets.
Ice man doesnt put frostbite by him self,he has cards that do that as well,ice man in leadership is s tier,if u play jubilee in 2-3 player game she is crazy,nightcrawler as well
B tier u placed so many great heros idk how u got this list but so many heros in ur b list are way better then where u place them
I don't disagree those heroes can shine in specific situations, but against the toughest scenarios (Expert Ronan, Venom Goblin) Iceman, Jubilee, and Nightcrawler all struggle. These 3 heroes require a lot of effort for the higher difficulty while heroes above them require less effort. Playthroughs are on my channel showing my experience with this.
All X-Men in Leadership are S-tier according to these criteria due to the brokenness that is the X-allies, Utopia and especially Uncanny X-Men.
@@svendejong8110 it’s not. I have Nightcrawler playthroughs on the channel losing with Uncanny X-Men leadership to expert Venom Goblin. A villain I’ve never lost to with Pool She-Hulk btw
Venom is the hero I have had the easiest time beating Ronan. I wouldn’t put him S tier though. High A tier.
If Venom gets rid of his Universal Weapon and Ronan never draws it back so Venom can stun/confuse lock then sure. It's a little bit unreliable in my opinion to play a strategy that counts on the villain not getting certain encounter cards
Some stuff I agree with, some I don't. My thoughts:
- Even though you're trying your best to justify your impressions, in the end you're (like most of us) just going by vibes, even sometimes using very similar points for why a hero is very good but another one is not very reliable. And that's ok, but it explains why there's always some discrepancy when people rate these things.
- Do people really rate Cable low? And if so, what are they smoking? Cable is probably the best hero overall in the game (I didn't say more powerful, I said best, by the way. He won't trivialize a lot of scenarios on his own the way Strange can do, but he'll just make everyone around him better in a way Strange doesn't).
- Given how much you weigh "the big three", it's not surprising that there's also some outliers. Miles Morales for example is bonkers good even before his status cards (he's generally undercosted, and has good alter-ego support and a good economy), but once you add in the statuses he is godly, and so most people rate him at S. But given your criteria, I think most of these ratings are fair.
- All that being said, I feel you're criminally underrating Spider-woman (her double aspect allows her to pull off some crazy combos, but it's true that deckbuilding with her is more complex. Maybe she hasn't clicked for you?), Storm (she doesn't require anywhere as much setup as you said, and she's as flexible as it gets, plus her kit is overall fantastic) and Wolverine (I don't feel he depends on rushing anywhere as much as you said). Conversely, I think that you're overrating She-hulk some (and here I think that Steady/stalwart villains are a factor too, as that means her superhuman strength tends to stay on the table in a way that it doesn't against others).
- Aside from those? I could move stuff around a bit, but I have no big qualms with your rankings.
- Also, as a final thought, it's kind of sad you found Hawkeye boring. I was expecting to really dislike him and I didn't give him a chance for the longest time, and once I did I found him a super fun hero to play. There's something extremely satisfying about preparing the right arrow and letting it fly, then hitting the villain for some extra damage or with another arrow. He's super squishy (a bit too much, which is why so many of us run him in leadership), but his burst and status delivery are fantastic. So yeah. Do give him another try, maybe against a different type of villain and see what you think.
Hey javgoro! So in regards to Cable, I got TONS of pushback and straight up hate when I said I thought he was the strongest hero in Marvel Champions. I have the videos on youtube and the comments section is a mess lol. If you look at any hero tier list before then, he's almost always in B tier. Not sure if you consider that low, but that's low to me since I think he's S tier. Also I know you're not doing this intentionally, but you misquoted a ton of stuff I said. I never said Wolverine depends on rushing, I just said he's really good at rushing and his only economy (claws) is for damage. I also didn't say is Hawkeye is boring. I just think he sucks and I don't like him lol. He's not boring though... just weak. But yeah we've talked about this before and I can concede that maybe I value steady/stalwart too much. I'm just always wary about bringing a hero with stuns/confuses to a steady/stalwart villain because they might get shut down. Miles in particular still has good value cards against a stalwart enemy (I mentioned this in the video) but he's not as strong as against an enemy that can be statuslocked. And where he needs all the value he can get are the big 3 villains. I'll possibly give Hawkeye another try in the future... no promises though haha
@webwarriorfanatic yeah, I don't know what to tell you about Cable, bud. Haters gonna hate, maybe? The first time I played him, my thought was "this guy is insane", and things haven't changed since. His only weaknesses are that if you get unlucky (or choose the wrong side schemes to put down) he can struggle to set up, and that his nemesis set is horrible. But he still ranks firmly at the top spots of S tier.
On the topic of villain choice, I've lately been doing a thought exercise where I categorize what makes a certain villain hard. With the big three, I think it goes along this way:
- Ronan: very high attack, punishing boost effects, dangerous treacheries, virtual heroic 1 mode.
- Venom Goblin: high threat pressure, dangerous attachments, high encounter card burst, steady/stalwart + retaliate.
- Magneto: cannot be rushed, lots of disabling effects, highly balanced modes of advancement (i.e. good at both attacking and scheming).
With this in mind, heroes that can handle those things (for example, having treachery cancels in your deck or ways to ignore attacks against Ronan, both things that Peter Parker has) will rate higher when ranked against those villains; meanwhile, heroes that can exploit other weaknesses that are more common in the general villain pool (e.g. status effects, less damage pressure...) will rate higher when weighed against the totality of the game. Would you agree with this analysis?
And yeah, definitely give Hawkeye another shot ( ;) ), especially in multiplayer where the pressure on him isn't so high. Some of the most fun games I've had in the past few months were two-handing Hawkeye Leadership and Black Widow Justice. They crushed the likes of Expert Mutagen Formula and Kang without breaking a sweat, completely shutting down the villain's entire game. It was a thing of beauty.
@@javgoro i totally agree with that analysis. My thing is if Peter Parker struggled with Ultron as much as let’s say Miles Morales struggled with Ronan, then i would rank Miles as higher. Villains that have a weakness that can be exploited also tend to be just all around weaker villains with less pressure unfortunately. I’m not excited to try Hawkeye again but I’ll keep an open mind lol
@@webwarriorfanatic Some heroes just click (or don't click) with us, and I think that's part of why the game is so good; you can always find a hero that really works for you. People swear by Captain Marvel, but both you and I were lukewarm on her (in terms of fun), IIRC, and to this day I find Black Panther dull but he's a lot of people's favourite. So if you find Hawkeye not to your liking, that's normal. The reason I'm encouraging you to try him again is because I was really surprised by how fun he was when I was expecting him to be a big meh.
C’mon bro, Storm is better than She-Hulk
She-Hulk is really really strong
Not only stronger than She-hulk, Storm can win in heroic solo mode vs a lot villains. The new rules upgrade a lot She-hulk but her kit sucks...at least 4 dead cards...too much
Your explanation about black Widows power level is that she's terrible in one of 47 scenarios...
She’s terrible against Collector I, Ronan, Magneto, etc… very few heroes are as bad as her against so many scenarios
@webwarriorfanatic but the bulk of your actual time spent talking about her was almost entirely about the Collector.
Look, Natasha has a ceiling. She's not going to single-handedly defeat the top 3 toughest scenarios. But C is a low rating.
On the plus side, she has a unique and interesting mechanic!
@@chauveet I can only spend so much time talking about each hero but I did specifically mention scenarios other than Collector I when talking about her. The heroes above her have an overall easier time to "defeat every expert scenario" in the game imo. But I will give her another shot in the future and see if my opinion changes. It's just my opinion based on my experience so could be stuff I'm missing
Ice man is S tier 10000%
until you play him in other than justice or leadership xD
Great video. Thanks a lot :)
You’re welcome 😁 glad you enjoyed it