POST WW1 CONFLICTS: Finnish Civil War ► th-cam.com/video/NxinTZ8FbFo/w-d-xo.html Polish-Ukrainian War ► th-cam.com/video/dgbY8J3-wKM/w-d-xo.html Hungarian-Romanian War ► th-cam.com/video/s-2Ip1T1ARg/w-d-xo.html
As a Pole it pains me to see that we had a war with Lithuanians, this never should have happened..... we should have supported each other considering we were all small fish surrounded by sharks at this point. Never again.
I am just writing to someone, when some see Poland's aspiration to build an empire and others see the restoration of the PLC, that Pilsudski wanted voluntary cooperation between nations: Poles, Lithuanians, Byelorussians, Ukrainians (and probably should be added: Jews). Only there are a few “buts.” First, in practice, he didn't have enough forces -- in foreign policy, the military and domestic politics -- to push through such an idea. Thus, interwar Poland contained areas belonging to all these nations, but they were not treated as equal owners of the state, but as national minorities. And the second thing - since he didn't do it, we don't know the details. For example, how did he really imagine "voluntary" cooperation when, for example, Lithuanians were afraid of Polonization? Was he ready for truly equal rights for these nations? We do not know whether this "voluntariness" was actually invoked in good faith.
@@polishgigachad7097 Jews were added anyway. After all, in most Polish towns before the war, Jews constituted a significant percentage or even the majority of the inhabitants. It was a matter of fully including them in the functioning of the state and society. And the Cossacks and Tatars had a common enemy in the form of the Soviets (at least for a while), so it was not a utopia.
@@polishgigachad7097 but why this irony? In those days, multinational states were the norm. Of course, most of them fell apart, but the point is that this was the discourse that prevailed back then. Piłsudski had a good plan, the only one that could ensure relative safety. However, we cannot blame Lithuanians or Ukrainians for wanting to be as free and independent as us.
Today I think that Poland did not need to fight for Vilnius. The divisions that emerged during this event were effectively used by the Russians for their dirty politics for years! We have so many years of common history, common heroes and common enemies. Poland and the Baltic countries should live in harmony and alliance. Unfortunately, this situation leads to Lithuania's dependence on Poland due to Poland's size and its location on the map. However, in my opinion, this is the only way to ensure relative security in the region.
Who were the bastars. Poles who regain freedom after being under Rusia-Germany-Austria okupation for 150 years and fighti 3 uprising. DO YOU TRULY REALIZE WHAT YOU EXPRES. r@kristapslicis2605
The founder of the Cheka (forerunner of the KGB) was Polish. Felix Dzerzhinsky. He was replaced by another Pole Vyacheslav Menzhinsky between 1926 -34. His sister Vera Menzhinsky worked closely with Lenin’s wife. Lenin’s elite Latvian guard also played a crucial role in the Russian revolution. ‘The commanders of the Red Latvian Riflemen (as well as some other Latvians, not connected to the Riflemen) attained dizzying heights in Soviet Russia and across the USSR. Gustav Bokis, for instance, headed the mechanized forces of the Red Army, Jukums Vācietis served for a while as commander-in-chief, and Jēkabs Alksnis commanded the air force’. Stalin and his NKVD chief Beria were from Georgia.
This is a Russian or other troll. He's talking nonsense! German census of Wilna, 1916: Poles 74 466 (53,76%) Jews 57 516 (41,45%) Lithuanians 2 909 (2,09%) Russians 2 212 (1,59%) Germans 880 (0,63%) Belarussians 611 (0,44%) Others 193 (0,13%)
Very interesting video! Thaks for the info! I have read about Polish-Soviet war but knew nothing about this "under the radar" war between two nations that lived together for centuries.
I will add a little bit of my Latvian perspective to this story. Poles helped us to drive out russkies from our territory in the end of WW1. That's why our relations has always been good and warm since then. But at the same time they did unforgivable things to our braļukas (Lithuanians). To rob your neighbour which has been your key allay for centuries of its capital city, it is the most stupid thing one could possibly do. Poland, obviously, had some imperial ambitions in the heads of its leaders and illusions of power and invincibility, which came with the attitude that they can just take a dump on everyone. It is a very sad and stupid mistake they did. My grand-grandmother was a Polish woman. Her parents owned land and estate in Lithuania. And as you can guess when the war was over they started to experience very hard times, since local people had very little love to Poles. So they started to look for options of selling their property and moved to Riga. On their way back to Latvia, after they received payment for property they just sold, their carriage was stopped on a highway and they both were robbed and killed. My grand-grand mother Sofia was 15 at that time and that's how she lost both of her parents. That's basically the story how stupid politicians are ruining peoples lives. No matter what country and nationality.
Unforgivable things as in 350 casualties in 2 years of hostilities. OK. Likely the same or more people would have died from childhood measles in the same time. Have perspective man. Next they'll call it the Lithuanian Nanking. You'll soon see Russians in the area call it that and how good it would be to rejoin the old Matushka Rosyiya.
@@peterc4082 These are officially reported casualties and they don't cover loses among civilian population. Anyway, you missed my point completely. How can an occupation of its historical capital and part of the land could be perceived from a perspective of local population? In terms of proportions 350 casualties for Lithuanians makes it about 170 000 for Chinese, BTW. But then again, I'm not speaking so much about casualties or scale of disaster. If your relatives had been killed in those events, you would look at them in a complete different manner. The point of the problem is that there are always some greedy and arrogant ultra nationalist cunts among politicians and likewise minded bastards among civilians who make a world such a fucked up place.
@@uldisparstrautsPoles will survive without you, but will you survive without Poles??? If you want to look into the Polish soul, get to know Captain Witold Pilecki. We won't force you to love Poland. We'll just leave you alone.
@@polishgigachad7097 :D If I like Poland and Poles it doesn't necessarily mean that I have to approve everything Poland has done in a course of history. As I told you I have some Polish blood myself. My ancestors were among Polish nobility called szlachta. They were landowners in Lithuania. I don't understand how it could possibly diminish your patriotism by admitting wrongdoings of your country in the past. Or you think Poles did the right thing? Ok, then. Good luck with that.
@@uldisparstrauts The blood and sacrifice of Polish saints/martyrs such as Maksymilian Kolbe, Witold Pilecki and many others authorize the Polish nation to dictate the direction in which human civilization should go.
After this war Poland and Lituania had no diplomatic relations. Even sending a letter directly from one country to the other was impossible. The letters were passed through Germany but had to have Polish (or Lithuanian) and German stamps.
A letter from Kaunas to Vilnius was being sent through Daugavpils between 1920 and 1938. The same was true for traveling by railway. All the roads, railways, telegraph lines were cut at the so-called "demarcation line".
Until the ultimatum of 1938, when Poland's threat of war forced the establishment of diplomatic relations. Which, as I believe diplomatic relations and cooperation were preferable to hostile relations, was nevertheless offensive behavior to the Lithuanians.
@alurban1105 I've lived in Tennessee pretty much my whole life with a few exceptions and there's a lot of ignorant people in this world. Can't speak for them, but I know quite well where the Baltic countries are and which ones make up that area. Cheers
Maybe I missed the topic in your other video, but it could be appropriate to mention military defeat of Zelogovski’s advance towards Kaunas by the Lithuanian army in battles in Širvintos- Giedraičiai area. Polish troops were in complete disarray and Lithuania could have recaptured Vilnius, if it’s march was not stopped by intervention of reps of the League of Nation, insisting on a cease-fire in a moment, favorable to Poles.
@@peterc4082 Look, there is nothing to become emotional about. Look at this as bloody competition which occurred before 100 years and is irrelevant now. We played this match and it is finished. Lithuanians lost battles to Poles during this war, and it is known and was mentioned. However from video it is unclear, why Zelogowski was not able to take Kaunas and why the war ended with demarcation line being there.
Забавно что эти два государство создал советский союз из немецких территорий и Вильна вернул жемойтам Сталин и ПНР достались чисто немецкие территории.
@@АлександрМолчюн The German territories which the Germans gave over willingly when they signed unconditional surrender. But had Russia not attacked Poland in 1939 maybe the world would be different. Russia is always doing bad things. Russia is always the aggressor.
I keep learning about more conflicts from where my family came from. I'm not sure I'll ever know what specific events drove my ancestors across the Atlantic, but that part of Europe was just kind of on fire all the time, I guess.
Which part wasn't on fire? The death toll here was 600+ people in 2 years of hostilities. When you bombed Iraq you contributed to the loss of 100,000s of people in that country. You destabilised it and made a mess of it. All for what?
As a Lithuanian i apologise on behalf of some overly nationalist guys in comments. Yes we had some issues, but it was in the past, I think we should keep it as an important reminder that friends can turn to enemies and vice versa and look at everything with healthy dose of caution, but in general it was our ancestors, we do not carry their thoughts or sins, we should not blame each other for such things. And I can say that 90%+(yes this is guesstimate from my own experience) of lithuanians have no ill will towards poland or polish people because of this war or any other historical event. Usually it's just our competitive nature showing, trying to look better than the other guy.
@@peterc4082 So, why are the Polish fine with the massacres Ukrainian fascists committed against them, e.g. the massacre in Volyn or the pogroms they committed themselves against Jews like the one in Jedwabne?
@@Lazendra Jedwabne? The pogrom committed by the German SS? The one where the exhumations were stopped once German shell casings were discovered? That pogrom was not investigated properly. Which other pogroms did Poles take part in? And please omit the ones carried out by the communists. Kielce? I suspect you're a Russian provocateur, mate.
Another wonderful historical coverage episode about complicated military situations amongst ( Polish 🇵🇱 , Lithuanian 🇱🇹 , and USSR) in 1921-1922 .this magnificent episode introduced by Sir Stefan 🙏...shared by an amazing ( history Hustle) channel....thanks
As a Lithuanian - believe me, we're not even paying attention to that period in history and Poland is still our brothers. We have a way bigger common enemy.
Few in Europe, and fewer still, as one progresses west across the continent have any idea, let alone knowledge, of the mess European countries were in following the 'cessation' of hostilities. There were numerous conflicts, mostly among the nations in the eastern area of Europe, some established, new nations emerged, all with the aim of asserting their domination over their terrritory, or that which they perceived as being rightfully under their sphere of influence. In many ways the guns of the First World War didn't fall silent until 1923. A geopolitical arena that is deserving of further programmes explaining these events.
Polish-Lithuanian war was probably way more important than people think, because polish aggression ruined the relations between the two countries which led to no formal alliance between the newly independent national states and thus the USSR and the Nazi Germany were able to easily split them up and take one by one.
"I believe history would have changed for Lithuania if Poland had not pursued its territorial claims against Lithuania and instead offered support. Additionally, if Poland had helped Ukraine resist the Bolsheviks, rather than damaging relations by claiming all of Galicia, it could have formed an alliance with both countries. In that scenario, the Nazis and Soviets would have faced greater challenges in conquering them. After World War II, Lithuania and Ukraine might not have been annexed by the USSR." @@BenyNukem
@dominykasmik8699 Poland couldn't give up Lwów, ever. Lithuania and Ucaraine had little strength. In 1939 there was no power in Europe that could stop Germans. Today little have changed. Lithuanians hate Poles with all their heart and Ukrainians rise monument to war criminals responsible for genocide of hundred thousands of innocent civilians, women, kids. Still both countries expect Poland to provide them safety.
@@dominykasmik8699 At first it was meant to force Lithania into the new PLC, later, when Polish side realized this is not working, they simply annexed big chunk of Eastern Lithuania.
@@dominykasmik8699 Poland helped Ukraine resist the Bolsheviks. Kiev offensive in 1920 was done in alliance with Ukrainian People's Republic, in order to establish Ukrainian state. Unfortunately Ukrainians were divided between many political bodies, so Symon Petlura was not able to install his government. In the Riga Treaty the part written in Ukrainians was done by Polish site, because Soviets did not have Ukrainian speaker among themselves!
Yeah with all those odds, rights and all. We, as Poles feel just bad that we did it.... That it ever happened in our history. Sorry bros. While actually Piłsudski himself was half Lithuanian, from his mother side. She was from Žemaitija (Atsiprašau, jei parašiau tai neteisingai). He didn't want to attack Lithuania. He wanted to reunite those two nations and rebuild the Commonwealth. Majority of Lithuanians chose the nationalist government that wanted Lithuania smaller but in the shape of ethnic Lithuania with Lithuanian people as vast majority. Piłsudski was from Vilnius. Poles made majority in Vilnius at that times but around the city itself, in other towns et cetera, Lithuanias were majority. He wanted this city because of that in Poland if there will be no Commonwealth and that's why this all started. Sad part of our history. Greetings from Poland to our Lithuanian brothers and sisters 💪 🇵🇱 ❤️ 🇱🇹 happy we are in the best relations today. Sveiki iš Lenkijos ir Meilė jums! Pozdrowienia z Polski 💪 ❤
Whatever the intentions the fact is that aggression did more damage in long run for pol-lit relations. Even now we still grudging about the outcomes of that war.
What I learned in life, that in need you will see true face of your friends. In politics there are no friends, only clashing interests. I just hope that both our countries can learn from this and align their interests to fight for common cause.
This conflict was also a reason why there wasn't a pre-ww2 union between baltic countries, poland, finland. Lithuania were against cooporation with Poland
@HistoryHustle There was more interesting moments. Like - very first president of Poland was Lithuanian, meanwhile his brother was building Lithuanian independence.
The Polish Lithuanians from that era have all the same story. The Lithuanian father is either killed or deported by the Russian Empire, and the kids ends up being raised by the Polish mother to be a Polish nationalist.
Poles are portrayed here as if all of them wanted an ethnic state. In fact a very popular idea was a federation a kin to the Swiss state with the rightfull borders from 1772.
My father's father's "Germams from Lithuanian" family was from the Suwalki Region. My great grandparents immigrated separately to Massachusetts around 1900 and then married in the USA. I still have distant cousins in Suwalki, Augustow, and Goldap. Some of them have Polonised German surnames.
@@peterc4082 I have distance cousins in both Poland and Germany, and the 25% of the ancestry from the area are a mixture of Baltic Prussians, Salzburger Exulanten, Lithuanians, and Masurian Poles. I have belonged to both Polish and German Clubs, so the answer is definitely "No". The Germans from Lithuanian were a pretty mixed bag ethnically. Maybe the only common factor is that they were Lutherans. My great grandmother spoke Polish in their home, some cousins spoke German, and one family I know spoke Lithuanian.
@@robertprice5039 There is a general chauvinism about towards us 'Poles' from the Brits, French, Dutch, heck everyone. So yes, in general you guys do consider yourselves superior human beings. Maybe not always explicitly. Now you may not experience it, if you're a Brit or a German but we do. Hence whenever one compares people from the region they usually elevate themselves. It's just how the world is.
@@robertprice5039 Good for you. I have 25% British ancestry rest is Polish. Germans killed my grandfather and great grandfather and other relatives. That's just how the war went. Had the Jerries won, I would not have been born because my parents would have been un-alived in childhood. Thankfully the Germans did not win.
Lithuanians hated Poles for Poles taking their culture even tho they're the ones responsible for that, Lithuanian nobility at the end of PLC almost only spoke Polish as it was lingua-france or the PLC and seen as prestigious but lithuanian nationalists will call this "colonization" and say that Lithiania should extend to Suwałki
@@qwerty-p6j How do you know how they spoke in the 18th c.? Can you provide any proof, e.g. sound recordings of them speaking or some video material from the 18th c? 🤡 Are you sure the elites 200 years ago were so stupid and uneducated, they knew the only language? 🤡
@@qwerty-p6j Can you translate what does it mean Suwałki? Is it from some Polish word suwałkeć? Maybe suwałkować? Do you tell me, that from the times immemorial all the population of in and around Suwałki was 100% Polish? Could you cite any archaeological data on this? Very interested. 🤡
The Lithuanian-Polish war lasted from 1920 to 1938. The Curzon Line separated a third of Lithuanian ethnic lands from Lithuania. Suvalkai, Seinai, Augustavas went from hand to hand several times. Poland attacked the next day after the signing of the Treaty of Suwalki on the separation of the countries. 1920. in a battle 50 km away from Kaunas (Širvintai - Giedraičiai), the Lithuanians defeated the Polish army (the 1st division with helpers - up to 15 thousand people) and chased it to Vilnius, Grigiškės. And here the author claims that up to a thousand people died on both sides.
Absolutely wrong is the information about national composition of Vilnius 's population .During 120 Russian rule everything, what was considered being Lithuanian was forbidden . There was driven very intense slavisation policy .Tsar government setteled in Vilnius area Russians and there were comming some polish settler mainly from Mazuren .In the tsar population census 1895 there wasn't a question about nationality . Just about religion and languages used . Lithuanian language was forbidden.
Not a Pole nor Lithuanian, but I know history very well and am knowledgeable about this era in Europe. I'm glad seeing so many Poles realizing it was a mistake on their part. Actually, the Polish hawkishness that characterized the whole interwar era in Poland was a giant mistake for Poland. But it's nothing to be ashamed of nor out of the ordinary for that era. People like Pilsudski wanted to improve Poland's standing by exploiting the situation that opened before them, that everyone around them was weak, there was no Russia, Germany or Austria to curb Poland's ambitions, and Poland was strong. It was a prime setting to restore Polish standing back towards the times of the Commonwealth. But they misunderstood the times. It was not the 18th century anymore, the new era of nation states and international law was not well suited for countries the likes of Commonwealth. In the end, Poland just ended up pissing off everyone around it, not just Lithuanians, but also Czechs, Ukrainians and Belarusians and couldn't count on any neighbor to defend itself during its impending war with the resurgent Germany and the USSR. Heck, the strife with the USSR could most likely have been completely avoided if Poland just respected the Curzon line and didn't go on to annex Belarusian, Ukrainian and Lithuanian territories. It's just important to be aware of the mistakes made in the past so not to repeat them again.
As a Pole, I think this video misses the important context and partially misrepresents the conflict. It wasn't only a conflict revolving around the borders but, especially, for people like Piłsudski and Żeligowski, a conflict revolving around the question "what is Lithuania", because for them Lithuania was their own little homeland. During the centuries of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, people of Grand Duchy of Lithuania were gradually adopting Polish language, culture and identity. Also, the whole of PLC started to be referred as a Poland already in 17th Century. That is why renowned Polish poet Adam Mickiewicz could say "Litwo, Ojczyzno moja" (Lithuania, my Fatherland) viewing Lithuania as a part of Poland. This sentiment was shared by Piłsudski and Żeligowski, who themselves were from Lithuania. For them establishing Central Lithuania was meant as beginning of building of federal Swiss-like state of Lithuania consisting of Lithuanians, Poles and Ruthenians. While for Lithuanian nationalists it was about building their own nation state, obviously.
But the time was not for Swiss-like states building. Pilsudski's ideas failed, Poland itself was building a national unitarian state as did other European nations after WW1.
@@fidenemini111 It may be, as you say, although at that time he had Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia which were, at least in theory, designed as multinational states.
As far as I know Zeligovski was unhappy about the task of “rebellion”, claiming his ancestors were from Congress Poland, and that he personally has nothing to do with Lithuania.
Actually Żeligowski was more licwinist, he was follower of the idea that real Lithuanians are western Ruthenians and ethnic Lithuanians are Żmudzini. Actually this more radical Polish Idea from interwar period is again gaining popularity in Belarus. Piłsudski was more tolerant to ethnic Lithuanians, maybe because of his family background and himself knowing language quiet good. There are still ethnic tensions in Vilnius/Vilna/Wilno suburbs. But now much better than 30 years ago. Thank God.
At that time the Poles had a great opportunity to restore the PLC, but they did not restore it, they wanted to create a new Poland, forgetting that Lithuanians exist. And if you read Adoma Mickevičiu (Lithuanian national hero) you understand why Lithuanians fought with Poles.
Yes, a part of European history that's almost forgotten today and rarely mentioned. The Polish-Lithuanian War was preceded by the Polish-Ukrainian War which resulted in heavy casualties on both sides.
My great granparents (grandpa was Lithuanian and Grandma was Polish) left because of this conflict, to the prairies of western canada - where their descendants are all spread out Havent been to Europe yet, but I would really like to explore that region and learn the history of the countries of the area through the locals. I find the very little I know quite fascinating.
My father a newly commissioned officer in the Lithuanian Army was left in charge by the Nazis of a prison holding many Polish officers and soldiers...opened the prison gates and Freed the Poles ! My father probably faced a court-martial and sure death ! But my father was a man of principle and respected to the land that gave his father ...shelter in the Polish Highlands! God Bless Polish and Lithuanian Friendship Forever !!!!
I knew of a Pole who studied pharmacy at the University of Vilnius or as she said Wilno. In her opinion the problem was that the Poles lived in Vilnius with the Jews and the Lithuanians lived in the surrounding countryside. The Poles seem to be more middle and upper class and the Lithuanians were peasants for the most part. The Jews were mainly city dwellers, some rich and most poor. Possibly this is a simplification, but that is what she told me. Thus we had a situation of both ethnic and class conflict.
@@arturasandriusaitis8832 Nonsense. This is just a Lithuanian nationalist myth about the polonized residents of Vilnius. The 2% of indigenous Lithuanians is not 70,000 of the population. Poles have been the vast majority for centuries even if some of them were of Lithuanian origin. It was a natural , unforced assimilation of Polish culture and language.
@@PaulDuchy It is difficult to determine the number of incoming Polish population in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. This would require professional literature. Undoubtedly, it started after the Polish-Lithuanian union and increasing Polish cultural influence, so from the end of the Middle Ages.
I think Lithuania and Poland stopped not because there was never a war, but because Lithuania was pressured by the coalition of nations (I don't remember how it was called at the time), we learned that in our history books.
It's not a good or wise thing to brag about such dark chapter of history but I will share it here for my Polish compatriots for them to understand more about interwar period Lithuania and Polish Vilnius. There was a joke during interwar period and all those conflicts in Lithuania that you could know few sentences in Polish and you could consider yourself real Pole but if you had heavy accent or poor Lithuanian vocabulary you could be instantly striped of right to call yourself Lithuanian. Good illustration of complicated situation and colourful ethnic melting pot was meeting between Czesław Miłosz and nationalist prime minister Augustinas Voldemaras. Miłosz with enthusiasm asked Voldemaras about possibilities for Lithuania to gain independence and expressed his excitement. Discussion unraveled when Miłosz asked: "So now we will be Lithuanians (litwinami?) right?)" Voldemar: "Do you speak Lithuanian?" Miłosz: "No, I don't" Voldemar: "So you won't" Many people even with their Lithuanian ancestry or background considered themselves Poles or at least Lithuanian poles and were part of Polish Crown with their heart and soul. Probably federation was a best option for polonised citizens of Wilno but I have to thank Poland for the way they choose to deal this situation because with steel and fire was forged Lithuanian state. Without pressure from our compatriots Polish Lithuanians, Belorussians and Poles from Polonia proper we would diluted and perished in Royal Polish Kingdoms sea.
Great video! Id love for you to go deeper into the political mind f❤ck this war was. So many different treaties must have made it impossible to navigate.
To expand the census question the Germans conducted their own census' of the region in 1916 and 17 showing the city to be 53% Polish and Lithuanians at 2% but the region was 89% Polish. The german post war order however was the region being a part of lithuania. Course there was a small problem with people being able to declare themselves as different nationality depending on the way the qeustion was phrased, a good example being Pilsudski himself who considered himself to be both polish and lithuanian.
@arturasandriusaitis8832 There are 2 explanations for differencies 1. City of Vilnius vs surroundings 2. One or both censuses were manipulating Slavic nations for political agenda Firstly, lets check how numbers changes for non-slavic nations. Surroundings are: 1897 Vilna Governorate, 1916 occupied Lithuania. In both it includes a chunk of modern Belarus. Vilnius Lithuanians: 2,1% -> 2,6% Jews: 40% -> 43% Surroundings Lithuanians: 17,6% -> 18,5% Jews: 12,7% -> 14,7% We can see numbers are quite consistent. They seem reliable. Now Slavs Vilnius Poles: 30,9% -> 50,2% Belarussians: 4,2% -> 1,4% Russians: 20% -> 1,4% Surroundings Poles: 8,2% -> 58% Belarussians: 56,1% -> 6,4% Russians: 4,9% -> 1,2% It is clear Slav nations were manipulated in one or both censuses. If we consider the Soviet census from 1944 for the city, it shows 79,8% Poles, 7,5% Lithuanians and 8,3% Russians. Which makes census from 1916 much more legitimate. But what is important to note, how low are the number of Lithuanians for the city and surroundings. They were minority in the ocean of Jews and Slavs.
There has been a mistake made by the narrator . On January 1st of 1919, Germans did not handed over city to Poles . They left it to Lithuanian government of prime minister Mykolas Slezevicius who worked in the city . But immediately after Germans left , Poles moved in and Lithuanian government followed German troops and left Vilnius , moving to Kaunas . Poles were able to keep Vilnius in 1919 for couple of days and then Bolsheviks took control of the city . Using German help Lithuanians were able to defend Lithuanian independence and in 1920 Lithuania and Soviet Russia signed a peace treaty which granted Vilnius to Lithuania. Soviets then lost war to Poland , and Polish controlled Vilnius till 1939 .
This video started autoplaying and the first thing I heard was “The years after the fourth world war were messy to say the least” I sure was confused 😅
Thats because Lithuania imported uniforms from Germany. Also, a lot was taken ass war loot from the West Russian Volunteer Army invasion, which was mainly made of Baltic germans.
I can't imagine how Lithuania survived. Bolsheviks, poles and bermontians. My kindred was from Alanta ( Owanta ) and i remeber how they talked about Poles and Bolsheviks. At one time poles even occupied that small town ( some young who was against polish occupation dissapeared ). You can even find painting " mūsis prie alantos" ( battle near Owanta ) by painter Vytautas Mackevičius I like Poland, but 1919-1920 was stab in the back and we lost many historical and important to Lithuania towns like Grodno, Lida and etc If not polish occupation, many in that region could speak lithuanian.... I hate Poland for: 1) Wilna region occupation 1919-1939 2) Poles didn't help during Bitwa o Wilno (1655) . Vilnius was destroyed and after Lithuania lost all of its power.
In school we learn that WWI ended on Nov 11 1918, or at least in most places in the Americas that's the case, perhaps with some sense that fighting continued in the form of the Red-White fighting in Russia. In my case, it took a trip to the Baltic countries to learn that about the war that continued after Nov 1918.
As a person who lived 20 years in Lithuania i could confirm - majority of Vilna district population prior and after WWI were so called "Locals" Тутэйшие (Tuteysheeye) bielorussian catholics. Lithuanians, especially lithuanian speaking didn't exceeded 5%. After WWII ethnical population map changed and percentage of ethnical lithuanians drastically increased due to migration from small towns and villages, as well jews amount significantly dropped. Actually my parents lives 10-15km westwards from demarcation line between interbellum Lithuania and Poland, even after 100 years you still could feel how different is population 10-15km eastwards.
Complete nonsense. Vilnius had a big Lithuanian population. Poles only accounted local church writings on the census where polish priests held the mass.
@@paulmattt Józef Piłsudski considered himself a Polish patriot and statesman, primarily dedicated to achieving an independent Poland, viewing himself as a leader of the Polish independence movement, often prioritizing military action to achieve this goal; he was also a socialist early in his career, aligning with the Polish Socialist Party (PPS) while actively fighting against Russian oppression
@@unsaved6 Yes he identified as Pole, more like Lithuanian Pole, but it doesn't change the fact that his original roots are Lithuanian. His ancestors after all were pagan Lithuanians, not Catholic Poles from Malopolska or so on.
It is a misconception that this conflict was just about Vilnius, the poles had clearly desired to occupy the entire country that was evident by the failed polish coup in Kaunas in 1919.
@@fidenemini111 Maybe you should read some objective history books first before you start mindlessly quoting quotes that you don't even understand? First: the exact slogan was "Wodzu, prowadź nas na Kowno". Second: it was used only by more nationalist demonstrators, related to the party called National Democracy, "endecja". Third, and most importantly, this slogan was coined in 1938 in response to a border incident when Lithuanian border guards shot a Polish guard, Stanisław Serafin, who, while pursuing a smuggler, mistakenly entered Lithuanian territory. The Lithuanians DELIBERATELY did not allow a doctor from the Polish side to approach him, and instead called their own, who needed over an hour to arrive. By that time, Serafin had long since bled to death. In the face of such behavior, the Polish ultimatum (which demanded only the establishment of diplomatic relations) was still a mild response.
My Grandfather immigrated from Poland to the US in 1910. Family lore says the reason was due to the Balkan Wars, which I never heard of. It seems my grandfather was going to be drafted into this conflict, so he left. Do you have any information on that?
German census of Wilna, 1916: Poles 74 466 (53,76%) Jews 57 516 (41,45%) Lithuanians 2 909 (2,09%) Russians 2 212 (1,59%) Germans 880 (0,63%) Belarussians 611 (0,44%) Others 193 (0,13%) Just dropping this little information for some dudes in the comments
@arturasandriusaitis8832 1. That's why I have cited the neutral German census, not Polish or Lithuanian censuses, which were at least in some parts biased and affected by some resettlements. We can also cite the Russian census from 1880s, where the largest ethnic group were Jewish, and Polish behind them. 2. Yup, because Lithuanian authorities in 1939 couldn't have any interest in changing the ethnicities to prove that Vilnius/Wilno/Wilna was ethnic Lithuanian city. I believe you that was totally unbiased. 3. Some Poles may have arrived into Wilna city and region during Interwar - it was natural, as Germans migrating into Breslau, Allenstein or Gleiwitz at the same time, as those cities were in Germany. It's not Africa, there's no need to call it CoLoNiZaTiOn.
To declare yourself Pole was a trend in Lithuania since 19th century or may be even earlier. Because if you say you are Lithuanian it automatically means that you are from village and not educated, let alone if you declare yourself as such outside of Russian Empire - nobody knows what the fuck does it men. During the migrations from Lithuania of the late 19th century to Scotland or States you hardly would find a Lithuanian among these migrants - everyone was listed as "Pole". One of such examples was Johny Ramensky - a Scottish national hero also known as John Ramsay, Gentleman Johnny, and Gentle Johnny ( born Jonas Ramanauskas).
@@arturasandriusaitis8832 1. Censuses of Wilno in late 19th and early 20th centuries shows Lithuanians as very small minority c.a. 2% Majority of local people declared themselves as Polish. 2 Wilno was not always Lithuanian, at last it was Polish from 1920-1939. Earlier Wilno was in Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth 1569-1795. Wilno was many times occupied by Russia 1656-1662 and 1795-1915, Soviets 1919-1920 and 1939-1941, Germany 1916-1919 and 1941-1944. Therefore Wilno clearly was not always Lithuanian in these times. 3. Wilno region was incorporated to Poland after referendum in 1923. Local people voted which state they want to join. Great majority chose Poland. state. After that Polish borders were internationally recognized by many countries. Then Lithuania lost legal rights to Wilno region.
difference between the Polish and German/Austrians. Consider this: Hungarian had less rights (than Lithuanians in their empire) and still Austria, Germany and all the world calls it Austro-Hungarian Empire. Lithuania had much more rights. The capital was moved from Krakow to the border with Lithuania, Warshawa. Poles even don't know that they capital city has Lithuanian name Varžuva (meaning the place in the river loop where you entrap and catch fishes). Did they know that their president's house was built and lived by Lithuanian nobility? Still contemporary they say it was Poland, nothing else. This is a real slavic shovinism. So, in the future EU will be called Belgium. Why? Because EU capital is in Belgium. lol
Not enough is said about the background to this conflict. The population of the region was predominantly identifying as Polish. There were hardly any Lithuanian supporters present. Jews traditionally sided with the stronger, in this case the Poles. The Lithuanians are today coming up with arguments along the line people may have identified as Polish but were descendants of the local Lithuanians. That might be true, but those people saw themselves as Polish none the less and had no desire to live in a separate Lithuanian state. Polish head of state Pilsudski, himself of Lithuanian descent, offered Lithuanians a federal state solution akin to the UK. Pilsudski reckoned correctly a more powerful entity was required to counter German and Russian domination in the region. The Lithuanians wouldn't have it. Shortsighted policy. In March 1939 Lithuania gave in to the German demands and in a similar fashion to the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia ceded Memel to Germany. In 1940 Lithuania becomes soviet property without any shots fired.
Wrong from beginning. Now even in Suvalki, Punsk there are lithuanian speaking population part. All these lands where historicaly lithuanian, not majority was speaking polish. Vilnius was mix of polish/lithuanian/gudian/jewish becouse it was regional center for state for very long. Even polish language was common, lithuanian was spoken often also - it was historical lithuania capital, it was never understood as poland part. Pilsudski had idea of making commonwealth again, he understood what is Lithuania. Poland should have agreed with lithuania independence from beginning and making mutual defence pact, that would have been the best choice, but at that time Poland was fighting with everyone around, even with those with whom Poland would better be united. A lot wrong decisions. You talk about losing memel - but poland has lost everythung in weeks. We lithuanians were safe place for your refugees.
Even now Polish military are not welcomed in Vilnius. Thats why our goverment chose 10 000 German troops over polish ones as Nato troops to guard the border. That war cut deep in future ralations, even felt to this day.
That's not true. This decision to invite German brigade has nothing to do with Poland-Lithuania war in the past. Our relationship with Poland is at its peak at the moment and Polish soldiers would be welcomed I have no doubt.
It was normal for Soviets and Germany to support Ukrainians and Lithuanians etc. because they only wanted to stop big Poland from forming again. They wanted Poland as cut up as possible. Their legitimizations mean nothing. They are purely strategic.
@@tomastomastomas1521 Why would Poland sponsor and upkeep lithuanian governmental schools with Polish taxpayer money in Poland? Lithuania can have its own schools in Lithuania.
Insted of having the best friend, poles have chosen this...thankfully time is healing wounds and now looks like we starting another chapter. We are brothers and now we both are more matured, so I am sure this wont hapen again!
6:59 Piulsudski wanted to establish an organism confederation consisting from group of nationalities lying between the Baltic and the Black Sea INTERMARIUM
2:55 Why you give a quotation from the German history book. Poles never declared Wilno a Polish city!!! 3:52 Peasants in the East Europe were mostly ilitarate and had no ethnic identity , they only new that they were a Christians Catholic or Orthodox. They were saying that they were people from here. Only the big land owners nobility had the ethnic identity and they consider themselves Polish , Lithuanians and Bialorusians at the same time. They were like Children from a divorcing parents who want they children to say with which parent they want to stay. But the children wanted the parents to stay together. So this was a civil war. Most of Poland's leadership including Piulsudski were from Lithuania. All of soldiers on the unionist side were from Lithuania.
According to this expert on nationality (this term is misunderstood especially in USA and is currently mixed with ethnicity) believes that a farmer speaking lithuanian does not know what his nationality is. By the way, Poland and Lithuania are not in east Europe, that is the current poor knowledge of geography in the west.
Lithuanians understood very well what nation they belong to. First book Martynas Mažvydas "Katekizmas" was not intended to be read by nobility, but rather by commoners. Also read Vytautas letters to Holy Roman emperor. He very clearly stated who are Lithuanians. Beginning of 15c
In Lithuania, calling a Pole a Pole is an insult. Because even Poles don't want to be Poles. I write without any intention to humiliate or offend, but this is a consequence of Poland's betrayal of Lithuania.
@@laimutisvaitkus4007We can close the Polish-Lithuanian border at any time. If Poles who have been living in Lithuania for centuries continue to be discriminated against, we do not need Lithuania.
@@laimutisvaitkus4007When we close the Polish-Lithuanian border, the only direction you will be able to travel is east. It is in your interest that Poles in Lithuania feel at home.
It's interesting to see that when Poles conquer or attack smaller countries like Lithuania or Czechoslovakia...it's their right and something completely normal and natural. BUT when Russians or Germans do the same to Poles...they start playing victims saying Poland attacked for no reason...not just the WW2 but thought out history
If you don't get the issue of those territories and the fact that those countries were brought to life after years of not being on the map, just stop posting...
Poland didn't conquer Lithuania although easily could do it from the military perspective just too over Wilno region where most of inhabitants were ethnic Poles. Most locals of Wilno region supported incorporation of the region into Poland. It is funny how Lithuanians in that time wanted to build a nation state but did not want to accept the fact that Wilno and its souuroundings were inhabited predominantly by the Poles who preferred to belong to the Polish state:) When it comes to Chechoslovakia, Poland did occupied Zaolzie region in 1938 where also most of the inhabitants were Polish - it was a grave mistake that they took adavantage of the opportunity when Hitler was destroying Tschechoslovakia, encouraging accusations of cooperation with Hitler. However again, Tchechoslovakia conquered Zaolzie against the previous agreement with the Poles in the time when Poland was striving to survive fighting the Bolsheviks and coud not do anything against it. Thus occupying Zaolzie was perceived by the Pols as a restoration of justice.
I agree, if we wanted to get into Wilno and Lwów because it was polish we should have at least been honorous and give Danzig to germans, sadly it wasn't depended on us but it was a decision of some guy in Versailles so yeah
They waged war against each of their Neighbours.Also Terror and partisan wars against Germany.Thats why quiet a few Germans,and other Europeans,we're of the opinion that the Poles in 1939 we're only getting what they had been begging for since 1919. F**k around,and find out. If you look at their warmonger role today,it seems they did'nt have lerned there lesson.
Had disputes with Slovaks also - (and more recently people from the Middle East, though they themselves recently invaded those countries and Afghanistan)
I think Poland made a massive mistake and missed a great opportunity. In their own imperial ambitions, they atacked other new nation states and independence movements. They could have supported Ukrainian, Lithuanian and Belarussian inpependence (they supressed and invaded instead) and formed a aliance of independend coutries, a large and powerful eastern european block. But the opportunity of that time is long gone.
Khmelnytsky, the Ukrainian "national hero", fought against the Polish "occupiers" and led the Ukrainians straight into the arms of the Muscovites. Now Ukrainians are looking for refuge in Poland. What do you think we should do with them???
@@laimis_ulaYeah we fought with western ukrainian republic, we only supported and recognised the republic of Petrula as the only rightful ukrainian republic , not our fault that Ukrainians couldn't find common ground and they had 4 Ukraines at the same time while being attacked by much stronger bolsheviks
the Polish bourgeoisie in the eastern borderlands has always behaved rudely, bringing shame to ordinary citizens today. As a Pole, I can only express remorse, even though I do not identify myself with the privileged class
Now Lithuanians do ethnic cleansing on Poles in Polish areas of Lithuania. They force you to learn lithuanian and take exams in their language in order to advance civically and also you are required to change your legal name in their lithuanization process. Disgusting imperial-wannabe aggressive country.
I don't know what you want to achieve with this. Do you want to piss us off and discourage us from helping Lithuanians if Russia decides to attack Lithuania 🤔
@@tomastomastomas1521As far as I know, you came to us to ask for help, not the other way around. If it were not for the voluntary union of the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, most likely no one today would even know that people called Lithuanians ever existed.
@polishgigachad7097 dude, look up a map of 15c. Look at GDL and so called "kingdom". A whale and a sardine. And read history books more carefully, who needed help more lol
Your help would be appreciated but not necessary.German troops already stationed in Lithuania, besides we are part of NATO, so we have other 30 allied countries, excluding Poland.
@@RZakelis Don't delude yourself, bro. Nobody will lift a finger to defend Lithuania. The Germans will sell you without blinking an eye for cheaper gas from Russia. The only ones who actually care about you are Poles. And only because of our sentiment towards the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
@@HistoryHustleWe were in the same situation, but as far as I know, the Polish authorities did not collaborate with either the Germans or the Soviets.
@@dainagrn7030 he just confirmed your words. People were willingly chosing Polish culture, even if they were genetically Balts. Similarly Lithuanian elites ruthenized themselves when they conquered Ruthenian lands.
POST WW1 CONFLICTS:
Finnish Civil War ► th-cam.com/video/NxinTZ8FbFo/w-d-xo.html
Polish-Ukrainian War ► th-cam.com/video/dgbY8J3-wKM/w-d-xo.html
Hungarian-Romanian War ► th-cam.com/video/s-2Ip1T1ARg/w-d-xo.html
✅ 👍
100% polish position
3:24 Yes Belarusians, and this is a well-established fact
Belarusians we in majority , still , you graphic didn´t show it , why ?
As a Pole it pains me to see that we had a war with Lithuanians, this never should have happened..... we should have supported each other considering we were all small fish surrounded by sharks at this point. Never again.
I agree. Thanks for watching.
I am just writing to someone, when some see Poland's aspiration to build an empire and others see the restoration of the PLC, that Pilsudski wanted voluntary cooperation between nations: Poles, Lithuanians, Byelorussians, Ukrainians (and probably should be added: Jews). Only there are a few “buts.”
First, in practice, he didn't have enough forces -- in foreign policy, the military and domestic politics -- to push through such an idea. Thus, interwar Poland contained areas belonging to all these nations, but they were not treated as equal owners of the state, but as national minorities.
And the second thing - since he didn't do it, we don't know the details. For example, how did he really imagine "voluntary" cooperation when, for example, Lithuanians were afraid of Polonization? Was he ready for truly equal rights for these nations? We do not know whether this "voluntariness" was actually invoked in good faith.
@@PKowalski2009Jews, Tatars, Cossacks, and who else would you like to add to this boiling pot??? Maybe some cannibal tribes from Africa???
@@polishgigachad7097 Jews were added anyway. After all, in most Polish towns before the war, Jews constituted a significant percentage or even the majority of the inhabitants. It was a matter of fully including them in the functioning of the state and society. And the Cossacks and Tatars had a common enemy in the form of the Soviets (at least for a while), so it was not a utopia.
@@polishgigachad7097 but why this irony? In those days, multinational states were the norm. Of course, most of them fell apart, but the point is that this was the discourse that prevailed back then.
Piłsudski had a good plan, the only one that could ensure relative safety. However, we cannot blame Lithuanians or Ukrainians for wanting to be as free and independent as us.
Love to Poland from Lithuania💕
🇵🇱🧡🇱🇹
They were bastards after WW1.
Today I think that Poland did not need to fight for Vilnius. The divisions that emerged during this event were effectively used by the Russians for their dirty politics for years! We have so many years of common history, common heroes and common enemies. Poland and the Baltic countries should live in harmony and alliance.
Unfortunately, this situation leads to Lithuania's dependence on Poland due to Poland's size and its location on the map. However, in my opinion, this is the only way to ensure relative security in the region.
Who were the bastars. Poles who regain freedom after being under Rusia-Germany-Austria okupation for 150 years and fighti 3 uprising.
DO YOU TRULY REALIZE WHAT YOU EXPRES.
r@kristapslicis2605
I very much doubt you guys have love for us. You guys will go after the Germans. You even call yourself a 'keiser'.
this war was a huge mistake. and Lithuania and Poland had a common enemy - Russia.
10/10
spoils of the germany/prussian losing...
@ABX) Ukraine is, don't forget about it th-cam.com/video/IiBPJnHbS_Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=h_2JcXC439LuF85l
That enemy now is the US, but they havn't caught on yet, they should have listeded to Kissinger
The founder of the Cheka (forerunner of the KGB) was Polish. Felix Dzerzhinsky. He was replaced by another Pole Vyacheslav Menzhinsky between 1926 -34. His sister Vera Menzhinsky worked closely with Lenin’s wife.
Lenin’s elite Latvian guard also played a crucial role in the Russian revolution.
‘The commanders of the Red Latvian Riflemen (as well as some other Latvians, not connected to the Riflemen) attained dizzying heights in Soviet Russia and across the USSR. Gustav Bokis, for instance, headed the mechanized forces of the Red Army, Jukums Vācietis served for a while as commander-in-chief, and Jēkabs Alksnis commanded the air force’.
Stalin and his NKVD chief Beria were from Georgia.
Love for ever 🇵🇱❤️🇱🇹
🇱🇹❤️🇵🇱
yeah right...
Shut the hell up
Very interesting. Helmets too👍
Knew nothing about this, so thanks a lot !
Greets from Grun' 🇳🇱, TW.
This is a Russian or other troll. He's talking nonsense!
German census of Wilna, 1916:
Poles 74 466 (53,76%)
Jews 57 516 (41,45%)
Lithuanians 2 909 (2,09%)
Russians 2 212 (1,59%)
Germans 880 (0,63%)
Belarussians 611 (0,44%)
Others 193 (0,13%)
Very interesting video! Thaks for the info! I have read about Polish-Soviet war but knew nothing about this "under the radar" war between two nations that lived together for centuries.
Thanks for watching.
I will add a little bit of my Latvian perspective to this story. Poles helped us to drive out russkies from our territory in the end of WW1. That's why our relations has always been good and warm since then. But at the same time they did unforgivable things to our braļukas (Lithuanians). To rob your neighbour which has been your key allay for centuries of its capital city, it is the most stupid thing one could possibly do. Poland, obviously, had some imperial ambitions in the heads of its leaders and illusions of power and invincibility, which came with the attitude that they can just take a dump on everyone. It is a very sad and stupid mistake they did. My grand-grandmother was a Polish woman. Her parents owned land and estate in Lithuania. And as you can guess when the war was over they started to experience very hard times, since local people had very little love to Poles. So they started to look for options of selling their property and moved to Riga. On their way back to Latvia, after they received payment for property they just sold, their carriage was stopped on a highway and they both were robbed and killed. My grand-grand mother Sofia was 15 at that time and that's how she lost both of her parents. That's basically the story how stupid politicians are ruining peoples lives. No matter what country and nationality.
Unforgivable things as in 350 casualties in 2 years of hostilities. OK. Likely the same or more people would have died from childhood measles in the same time. Have perspective man. Next they'll call it the Lithuanian Nanking. You'll soon see Russians in the area call it that and how good it would be to rejoin the old Matushka Rosyiya.
@@peterc4082 These are officially reported casualties and they don't cover loses among civilian population. Anyway, you missed my point completely. How can an occupation of its historical capital and part of the land could be perceived from a perspective of local population? In terms of proportions 350 casualties for Lithuanians makes it about 170 000 for Chinese, BTW. But then again, I'm not speaking so much about casualties or scale of disaster. If your relatives had been killed in those events, you would look at them in a complete different manner. The point of the problem is that there are always some greedy and arrogant ultra nationalist cunts among politicians and likewise minded bastards among civilians who make a world such a fucked up place.
@@uldisparstrautsPoles will survive without you, but will you survive without Poles??? If you want to look into the Polish soul, get to know Captain Witold Pilecki. We won't force you to love Poland. We'll just leave you alone.
@@polishgigachad7097 :D If I like Poland and Poles it doesn't necessarily mean that I have to approve everything Poland has done in a course of history. As I told you I have some Polish blood myself. My ancestors were among Polish nobility called szlachta. They were landowners in Lithuania. I don't understand how it could possibly diminish your patriotism by admitting wrongdoings of your country in the past. Or you think Poles did the right thing? Ok, then. Good luck with that.
@@uldisparstrauts The blood and sacrifice of Polish saints/martyrs such as Maksymilian Kolbe, Witold Pilecki and many others authorize the Polish nation to dictate the direction in which human civilization should go.
After this war Poland and Lituania had no diplomatic relations. Even sending a letter directly from one country to the other was impossible. The letters were passed through Germany but had to have Polish (or Lithuanian) and German stamps.
A letter from Kaunas to Vilnius was being sent through Daugavpils between 1920 and 1938. The same was true for traveling by railway. All the roads, railways, telegraph lines were cut at the so-called "demarcation line".
Until the ultimatum of 1938, when Poland's threat of war forced the establishment of diplomatic relations.
Which, as I believe diplomatic relations and cooperation were preferable to hostile relations, was nevertheless offensive behavior to the Lithuanians.
@@arturass3896 A similar situation exists today between Lithuania and Belarus. Ordinary people have to suffer because of some idiots in power.
@@cobbvdКто санкции накладывает на соседней те и идиоты.
Another interesting video on a little known topic. Well done Stefan. Cheers from Tennessee
@@Hillbilly001 I lived in Tennesee for 3 years. Nobody knew where Lithuania is🤣
@alurban1105 I've lived in Tennessee pretty much my whole life with a few exceptions and there's a lot of ignorant people in this world. Can't speak for them, but I know quite well where the Baltic countries are and which ones make up that area. Cheers
@@Hillbilly001 I blame Irish immigrants🤣🤣🤣
Excellent as always Stefan ... Thank you Squire for your endless hard work 🙂🤟
Many thanks.
So interesting, I was not aware of this war. Which is surprising considering the size and length of it all! Keep up the great work!
Poland had beef with their neighbors in the early years!
Maybe I missed the topic in your other video, but it could be appropriate to mention military defeat of Zelogovski’s advance towards Kaunas by the Lithuanian army in battles in Širvintos- Giedraičiai area. Polish troops were in complete disarray and Lithuania could have recaptured Vilnius, if it’s march was not stopped by intervention of reps of the League of Nation, insisting on a cease-fire in a moment, favorable to Poles.
I vote we close the border between Poland and Lithuania. I think it's time you guys were on your own.
@@peterc4082 Look, there is nothing to become emotional about. Look at this as bloody competition which occurred before 100 years and is irrelevant now. We played this match and it is finished. Lithuanians lost battles to Poles during this war, and it is known and was mentioned. However from video it is unclear, why Zelogowski was not able to take Kaunas and why the war ended with demarcation line being there.
Забавно что эти два государство создал советский союз из немецких территорий и Вильна вернул жемойтам Сталин и ПНР достались чисто немецкие территории.
@@АлександрМолчюн The German territories which the Germans gave over willingly when they signed unconditional surrender. But had Russia not attacked Poland in 1939 maybe the world would be different. Russia is always doing bad things. Russia is always the aggressor.
Damn im super early. Love your content.
❤
Thanks Stef for covering wars that history has forgotten in the main
Cheers!
I keep learning about more conflicts from where my family came from. I'm not sure I'll ever know what specific events drove my ancestors across the Atlantic, but that part of Europe was just kind of on fire all the time, I guess.
Which part wasn't on fire? The death toll here was 600+ people in 2 years of hostilities. When you bombed Iraq you contributed to the loss of 100,000s of people in that country. You destabilised it and made a mess of it. All for what?
Great work Stefan! Ty ✌🏻
👍
Thank you Stefan!
Cheers!
"Always"concise"and"informative".."Instructor"🔥🔥
Thanks for watching @
As a Lithuanian i apologise on behalf of some overly nationalist guys in comments. Yes we had some issues, but it was in the past, I think we should keep it as an important reminder that friends can turn to enemies and vice versa and look at everything with healthy dose of caution, but in general it was our ancestors, we do not carry their thoughts or sins, we should not blame each other for such things. And I can say that 90%+(yes this is guesstimate from my own experience) of lithuanians have no ill will towards poland or polish people because of this war or any other historical event. Usually it's just our competitive nature showing, trying to look better than the other guy.
same thing between polish and ukrainian
Tell that to the Poles who up to the present day come up with WWII.
@@Lazendra And Americans talk of Pearl harbor and 911 to this day. Poland lost 21% of her people in that war.
@@peterc4082 So, why are the Polish fine with the massacres Ukrainian fascists committed against them, e.g. the massacre in Volyn or the pogroms they committed themselves against Jews like the one in Jedwabne?
@@Lazendra Jedwabne? The pogrom committed by the German SS? The one where the exhumations were stopped once German shell casings were discovered? That pogrom was not investigated properly. Which other pogroms did Poles take part in? And please omit the ones carried out by the communists. Kielce?
I suspect you're a Russian provocateur, mate.
Another wonderful historical coverage episode about complicated military situations amongst ( Polish 🇵🇱 , Lithuanian 🇱🇹 , and USSR) in 1921-1922 .this magnificent episode introduced by Sir Stefan 🙏...shared by an amazing ( history Hustle) channel....thanks
As a Lithuanian - believe me, we're not even paying attention to that period in history and Poland is still our brothers. We have a way bigger common enemy.
That's true
"GUyS, GuYs, TrUsT Me On ThIs"
Get outta here with that. Schools teach it, and we do talk about it.
Įteisino 3 lenkiškas raides, tuoj priims mažumų įstatymą su visokiom autonomijom. Vėl rusai kalti? Ar tau su smegenais visks normalei?
Lie
@@Konpo-j6y says Russian bot
Few in Europe, and fewer still, as one progresses west across the continent have any idea, let alone knowledge, of the mess European countries were in following the 'cessation' of hostilities. There were numerous conflicts, mostly among the nations in the eastern area of Europe, some established, new nations emerged, all with the aim of asserting their domination over their terrritory, or that which they perceived as being rightfully under their sphere of influence. In many ways the guns of the First World War didn't fall silent until 1923. A geopolitical arena that is deserving of further programmes explaining these events.
Because the treaties imposed by the victors were beyond any semblance of sense or decency.
Tell it to Ireland vs North Ireland.
All those wars after WW1... the great conflict didn't really end until 1923.
Indeed.
Great subject. Thank you
Polish-Lithuanian war was probably way more important than people think, because polish aggression ruined the relations between the two countries which led to no formal alliance between the newly independent national states and thus the USSR and the Nazi Germany were able to easily split them up and take one by one.
It turned out to be a mistake. But such alliance wouldn't change the faith of both countries anyway.
"I believe history would have changed for Lithuania if Poland had not pursued its territorial claims against Lithuania and instead offered support. Additionally, if Poland had helped Ukraine resist the Bolsheviks, rather than damaging relations by claiming all of Galicia, it could have formed an alliance with both countries. In that scenario, the Nazis and Soviets would have faced greater challenges in conquering them. After World War II, Lithuania and Ukraine might not have been annexed by the USSR."
@@BenyNukem
@dominykasmik8699 Poland couldn't give up Lwów, ever. Lithuania and Ucaraine had little strength. In 1939 there was no power in Europe that could stop Germans. Today little have changed. Lithuanians hate Poles with all their heart and Ukrainians rise monument to war criminals responsible for genocide of hundred thousands of innocent civilians, women, kids. Still both countries expect Poland to provide them safety.
@@dominykasmik8699 At first it was meant to force Lithania into the new PLC, later, when Polish side realized this is not working, they simply annexed big chunk of Eastern Lithuania.
@@dominykasmik8699 Poland helped Ukraine resist the Bolsheviks. Kiev offensive in 1920 was done in alliance with Ukrainian People's Republic, in order to establish Ukrainian state.
Unfortunately Ukrainians were divided between many political bodies, so Symon Petlura was not able to install his government. In the Riga Treaty the part written in Ukrainians was done by Polish site, because Soviets did not have Ukrainian speaker among themselves!
Stef you are a gem sir ❤ love this channel 🎓👏
Awesome to read!
Yeah with all those odds, rights and all. We, as Poles feel just bad that we did it.... That it ever happened in our history. Sorry bros.
While actually Piłsudski himself was half Lithuanian, from his mother side. She was from Žemaitija (Atsiprašau, jei parašiau tai neteisingai). He didn't want to attack Lithuania. He wanted to reunite those two nations and rebuild the Commonwealth. Majority of Lithuanians chose the nationalist government that wanted Lithuania smaller but in the shape of ethnic Lithuania with Lithuanian people as vast majority. Piłsudski was from Vilnius. Poles made majority in Vilnius at that times but around the city itself, in other towns et cetera, Lithuanias were majority. He wanted this city because of that in Poland if there will be no Commonwealth and that's why this all started. Sad part of our history.
Greetings from Poland to our Lithuanian brothers and sisters 💪 🇵🇱 ❤️ 🇱🇹 happy we are in the best relations today. Sveiki iš Lenkijos ir Meilė jums! Pozdrowienia z Polski 💪 ❤
Always interesting!
Whatever the intentions the fact is that aggression did more damage in long run for pol-lit relations. Even now we still grudging about the outcomes of that war.
Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth 😊
Excellent. BZ. Chaotic times.
Thanks for watching.
What I learned in life, that in need you will see true face of your friends. In politics there are no friends, only clashing interests. I just hope that both our countries can learn from this and align their interests to fight for common cause.
This conflict was also a reason why there wasn't a pre-ww2 union between baltic countries, poland, finland. Lithuania were against cooporation with Poland
Конечно кто захочет связываться с генной Европы.
Most unexpected thing is, that Pilsudski was born in Lithuania.
Interesting yes.
@HistoryHustle There was more interesting moments. Like - very first president of Poland was Lithuanian, meanwhile his brother was building Lithuanian independence.
The Polish Lithuanians from that era have all the same story. The Lithuanian father is either killed or deported by the Russian Empire, and the kids ends up being raised by the Polish mother to be a Polish nationalist.
Thank you! 🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹🇱🇹
Very interesting! History I never knew of !
Damn stephan shedding light on Poland dark history
👍
thanks bro
👍
Poles are portrayed here as if all of them wanted an ethnic state. In fact a very popular idea was a federation a kin to the Swiss state with the rightfull borders from 1772.
My father's father's "Germams from Lithuanian" family was from the Suwalki Region. My great grandparents immigrated separately to Massachusetts around 1900 and then married in the USA. I still have distant cousins in Suwalki, Augustow, and Goldap. Some of them have Polonised German surnames.
Do you think Germans were superior people to Poles?
@@peterc4082 I have distance cousins in both Poland and Germany, and the 25% of the ancestry from the area are a mixture of Baltic Prussians, Salzburger Exulanten, Lithuanians, and Masurian Poles. I have belonged to both Polish and German Clubs, so the answer is definitely "No". The Germans from Lithuanian were a pretty mixed bag ethnically. Maybe the only common factor is that they were Lutherans. My great grandmother spoke Polish in their home, some cousins spoke German, and one family I know spoke Lithuanian.
@@peterc4082 What made you think about asking this question?
@@robertprice5039 There is a general chauvinism about towards us 'Poles' from the Brits, French, Dutch, heck everyone. So yes, in general you guys do consider yourselves superior human beings. Maybe not always explicitly. Now you may not experience it, if you're a Brit or a German but we do. Hence whenever one compares people from the region they usually elevate themselves. It's just how the world is.
@@robertprice5039 Good for you. I have 25% British ancestry rest is Polish. Germans killed my grandfather and great grandfather and other relatives. That's just how the war went. Had the Jerries won, I would not have been born because my parents would have been un-alived in childhood. Thankfully the Germans did not win.
This is sad. Poland and Lithuanian used to be buddies.
As usually blame Germans... They did started that
@@turczyn2000 not exactly because Lithuanian nationalism, as opposed to Poles, started in the end of XIX century.
Lithuanians hated Poles for Poles taking their culture even tho they're the ones responsible for that, Lithuanian nobility at the end of PLC almost only spoke Polish as it was lingua-france or the PLC and seen as prestigious but lithuanian nationalists will call this "colonization" and say that Lithiania should extend to Suwałki
@@qwerty-p6j How do you know how they spoke in the 18th c.? Can you provide any proof, e.g. sound recordings of them speaking or some video material from the 18th c? 🤡 Are you sure the elites 200 years ago were so stupid and uneducated, they knew the only language? 🤡
@@qwerty-p6j Can you translate what does it mean Suwałki? Is it from some Polish word suwałkeć? Maybe suwałkować? Do you tell me, that from the times immemorial all the population of in and around Suwałki was 100% Polish? Could you cite any archaeological data on this? Very interested. 🤡
The Lithuanian-Polish war lasted from 1920 to 1938. The Curzon Line separated a third of Lithuanian ethnic lands from Lithuania. Suvalkai, Seinai, Augustavas went from hand to hand several times. Poland attacked the next day after the signing of the Treaty of Suwalki on the separation of the countries. 1920. in a battle 50 km away from Kaunas (Širvintai - Giedraičiai), the Lithuanians defeated the Polish army (the 1st division with helpers - up to 15 thousand people) and chased it to Vilnius, Grigiškės. And here the author claims that up to a thousand people died on both sides.
Absolutely wrong is the information about national composition of Vilnius 's population .During 120 Russian rule everything, what was considered being Lithuanian was forbidden . There was driven very intense slavisation policy .Tsar government setteled in Vilnius area Russians and there were comming some polish settler mainly from Mazuren .In the tsar population census 1895 there wasn't a question about nationality . Just about religion and languages used . Lithuanian language was forbidden.
Not a Pole nor Lithuanian, but I know history very well and am knowledgeable about this era in Europe. I'm glad seeing so many Poles realizing it was a mistake on their part. Actually, the Polish hawkishness that characterized the whole interwar era in Poland was a giant mistake for Poland. But it's nothing to be ashamed of nor out of the ordinary for that era. People like Pilsudski wanted to improve Poland's standing by exploiting the situation that opened before them, that everyone around them was weak, there was no Russia, Germany or Austria to curb Poland's ambitions, and Poland was strong. It was a prime setting to restore Polish standing back towards the times of the Commonwealth. But they misunderstood the times. It was not the 18th century anymore, the new era of nation states and international law was not well suited for countries the likes of Commonwealth. In the end, Poland just ended up pissing off everyone around it, not just Lithuanians, but also Czechs, Ukrainians and Belarusians and couldn't count on any neighbor to defend itself during its impending war with the resurgent Germany and the USSR. Heck, the strife with the USSR could most likely have been completely avoided if Poland just respected the Curzon line and didn't go on to annex Belarusian, Ukrainian and Lithuanian territories. It's just important to be aware of the mistakes made in the past so not to repeat them again.
As a Pole, I think this video misses the important context and partially misrepresents the conflict. It wasn't only a conflict revolving around the borders but, especially, for people like Piłsudski and Żeligowski, a conflict revolving around the question "what is Lithuania", because for them Lithuania was their own little homeland. During the centuries of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, people of Grand Duchy of Lithuania were gradually adopting Polish language, culture and identity. Also, the whole of PLC started to be referred as a Poland already in 17th Century. That is why renowned Polish poet Adam Mickiewicz could say "Litwo, Ojczyzno moja" (Lithuania, my Fatherland) viewing Lithuania as a part of Poland. This sentiment was shared by Piłsudski and Żeligowski, who themselves were from Lithuania. For them establishing Central Lithuania was meant as beginning of building of federal Swiss-like state of Lithuania consisting of Lithuanians, Poles and Ruthenians.
While for Lithuanian nationalists it was about building their own nation state, obviously.
But the time was not for Swiss-like states building. Pilsudski's ideas failed, Poland itself was building a national unitarian state as did other European nations after WW1.
@@fidenemini111 It may be, as you say, although at that time he had Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia which were, at least in theory, designed as multinational states.
As far as I know Zeligovski was unhappy about the task of “rebellion”, claiming his ancestors were from Congress Poland, and that he personally has nothing to do with Lithuania.
Actually Żeligowski was more licwinist, he was follower of the idea that real Lithuanians are western Ruthenians and ethnic Lithuanians are Żmudzini. Actually this more radical Polish Idea from interwar period is again gaining popularity in Belarus. Piłsudski was more tolerant to ethnic Lithuanians, maybe because of his family background and himself knowing language quiet good. There are still ethnic tensions in Vilnius/Vilna/Wilno suburbs. But now much better than 30 years ago. Thank God.
At that time the Poles had a great opportunity to restore the PLC, but they did not restore it, they wanted to create a new Poland, forgetting that Lithuanians exist. And if you read Adoma Mickevičiu (Lithuanian national hero) you understand why Lithuanians fought with Poles.
Yes, a part of European history that's almost forgotten today and rarely mentioned. The Polish-Lithuanian War was preceded by the Polish-Ukrainian War which resulted in heavy casualties on both sides.
Toujours excellent 😊
Merci.
My great granparents (grandpa was Lithuanian and Grandma was Polish) left because of this conflict, to the prairies of western canada - where their descendants are all spread out
Havent been to Europe yet, but I would really like to explore that region and learn the history of the countries of the area through the locals. I find the very little I know quite fascinating.
My father a newly commissioned officer in the Lithuanian Army was left in charge by the Nazis of a prison holding many Polish officers and soldiers...opened the prison gates and Freed the Poles ! My father probably faced a court-martial and sure death ! But my father was a man of principle and respected to the land that gave his father ...shelter in the Polish Highlands! God Bless Polish and Lithuanian Friendship Forever !!!!
An interesting piece of Post World War I history, often overlooked in the West.
Thanks David!
I knew of a Pole who studied pharmacy at the University of Vilnius or as she said Wilno. In her opinion the problem was that the Poles lived in Vilnius with the Jews and the Lithuanians lived in the surrounding countryside. The Poles seem to be more middle and upper class and the Lithuanians were peasants for the most part. The Jews were mainly city dwellers, some rich and most poor. Possibly this is a simplification, but that is what she told me. Thus we had a situation of both ethnic and class conflict.
@@arturasandriusaitis8832 Thanks, now what about Vilnius in particular. How was it ethnically speaking between 1920 and 1940?
@@arturasandriusaitis8832 Nonsense. This is just a Lithuanian nationalist myth about the polonized residents of Vilnius. The 2% of indigenous Lithuanians is not 70,000 of the population. Poles have been the vast majority for centuries even if some of them were of Lithuanian origin. It was a natural , unforced assimilation of Polish culture and language.
@@rafagiermasinski4483 explain to me when this polish migration happened? thank you
@@arturasandriusaitis8832 Tell that to Polish people from Wilno area.
@@PaulDuchy It is difficult to determine the number of incoming Polish population in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. This would require professional literature. Undoubtedly, it started after the Polish-Lithuanian union and increasing Polish cultural influence, so from the end of the Middle Ages.
I think Lithuania and Poland stopped not because there was never a war, but because Lithuania was pressured by the coalition of nations (I don't remember how it was called at the time), we learned that in our history books.
It's not a good or wise thing to brag about such dark chapter of history but I will share it here for my Polish compatriots for them to understand more about interwar period Lithuania and Polish Vilnius.
There was a joke during interwar period and all those conflicts in Lithuania that you could know few sentences in Polish and you could consider yourself real Pole but if you had heavy accent or poor Lithuanian vocabulary you could be instantly striped of right to call yourself Lithuanian.
Good illustration of complicated situation and colourful ethnic melting pot was meeting between Czesław Miłosz and nationalist prime minister Augustinas Voldemaras.
Miłosz with enthusiasm asked Voldemaras about possibilities for Lithuania to gain independence and expressed his excitement.
Discussion unraveled when Miłosz asked: "So now we will be Lithuanians (litwinami?) right?)"
Voldemar: "Do you speak Lithuanian?"
Miłosz: "No, I don't"
Voldemar: "So you won't"
Many people even with their Lithuanian ancestry or background considered themselves Poles or at least Lithuanian poles and were part of Polish Crown with their heart and soul. Probably federation was a best option for polonised citizens of Wilno but I have to thank Poland for the way they choose to deal this situation because with steel and fire was forged Lithuanian state. Without pressure from our compatriots Polish Lithuanians, Belorussians and Poles from Polonia proper we would diluted and perished in Royal Polish Kingdoms sea.
I hope that in case of danger, Lithuanians will show more honor and dignity than Ukrainians and will not flee to Poland.
Great video! Id love for you to go deeper into the political mind f❤ck this war was. So many different treaties must have made it impossible to navigate.
Thanks for your reply.
Excellent video - just goes to show how extremely complicated European history and identity is.
Yes, thanks for watching.
To expand the census question the Germans conducted their own census' of the region in 1916 and 17 showing the city to be 53% Polish and Lithuanians at 2% but the region was 89% Polish. The german post war order however was the region being a part of lithuania.
Course there was a small problem with people being able to declare themselves as different nationality depending on the way the qeustion was phrased, a good example being Pilsudski himself who considered himself to be both polish and lithuanian.
@arturasandriusaitis8832 There are 2 explanations for differencies
1. City of Vilnius vs surroundings
2. One or both censuses were manipulating Slavic nations for political agenda
Firstly, lets check how numbers changes for non-slavic nations. Surroundings are: 1897 Vilna Governorate, 1916 occupied Lithuania. In both it includes a chunk of modern Belarus.
Vilnius
Lithuanians: 2,1% -> 2,6%
Jews: 40% -> 43%
Surroundings
Lithuanians: 17,6% -> 18,5%
Jews: 12,7% -> 14,7%
We can see numbers are quite consistent. They seem reliable. Now Slavs
Vilnius
Poles: 30,9% -> 50,2%
Belarussians: 4,2% -> 1,4%
Russians: 20% -> 1,4%
Surroundings
Poles: 8,2% -> 58%
Belarussians: 56,1% -> 6,4%
Russians: 4,9% -> 1,2%
It is clear Slav nations were manipulated in one or both censuses. If we consider the Soviet census from 1944 for the city, it shows 79,8% Poles, 7,5% Lithuanians and 8,3% Russians. Which makes census from 1916 much more legitimate.
But what is important to note, how low are the number of Lithuanians for the city and surroundings. They were minority in the ocean of Jews and Slavs.
There has been a mistake made by the narrator .
On January 1st of 1919, Germans did not handed over city to Poles . They left it to Lithuanian government of prime minister Mykolas Slezevicius who worked in the city . But immediately after Germans left , Poles moved in and Lithuanian government followed German troops and left Vilnius , moving to Kaunas . Poles were able to keep Vilnius in 1919 for couple of days and then Bolsheviks took control of the city .
Using German help Lithuanians were able to defend Lithuanian independence and in 1920 Lithuania and Soviet Russia signed a peace treaty which granted Vilnius to Lithuania.
Soviets then lost war to Poland , and Polish controlled Vilnius till 1939 .
❤️Lietuva🇱🇹Vilnius❤️
🧡
Жемойты,а Вильна город беларусов.
@@АлександрМолчюн Mirtis kremliaus litvinistams!
@@АлександрМолчюн Someone has failed history classes?
Weer een heel leerzame video! Over een onbekende oorlog.
Jak podzielic terytorium jednego kraju by trzy a wlasciwie cztery narody go tworzace mialy swoje miejsce do zycia? Bo taka byla dawna Rzeczypospolita.
This video started autoplaying and the first thing I heard was “The years after the fourth world war were messy to say the least”
I sure was confused 😅
Hahaha, FIRST world war I meant.
14:42 Are those men the Lithuanian troopers? Their uniform looks a bit German to say the least.
@@stephanottawa7890 true! They had the exact same helmet for sure. Believe their tunics were dark brown.
Thats because Lithuania imported uniforms from Germany. Also, a lot was taken ass war loot from the West Russian Volunteer Army invasion, which was mainly made of Baltic germans.
@@g4gaming809 I think that you mean "as".
Even if the German troups left, there were enougb German volunteers to help Lithuania fight. That's why we said we couldn't have won without them.
I can't imagine how Lithuania survived. Bolsheviks, poles and bermontians. My kindred was from Alanta ( Owanta ) and i remeber how they talked about Poles and Bolsheviks.
At one time poles even occupied that small town ( some young who was against polish occupation dissapeared ). You can even find painting " mūsis prie alantos" ( battle near Owanta ) by painter Vytautas Mackevičius
I like Poland, but 1919-1920 was stab in the back and we lost many historical and important to Lithuania towns like Grodno, Lida and etc If not polish occupation, many in that region could speak lithuanian....
I hate Poland for:
1) Wilna region occupation 1919-1939
2) Poles didn't help during Bitwa o Wilno (1655) . Vilnius was destroyed and after Lithuania lost all of its power.
In school we learn that WWI ended on Nov 11 1918, or at least in most places in the Americas that's the case, perhaps with some sense that fighting continued in the form of the Red-White fighting in Russia. In my case, it took a trip to the Baltic countries to learn that about the war that continued after Nov 1918.
As a person who lived 20 years in Lithuania i could confirm - majority of Vilna district population prior and after WWI were so called "Locals" Тутэйшие (Tuteysheeye) bielorussian catholics. Lithuanians, especially lithuanian speaking didn't exceeded 5%. After WWII ethnical population map changed and percentage of ethnical lithuanians drastically increased due to migration from small towns and villages, as well jews amount significantly dropped. Actually my parents lives 10-15km westwards from demarcation line between interbellum Lithuania and Poland, even after 100 years you still could feel how different is population 10-15km eastwards.
Complete nonsense. Vilnius had a big Lithuanian population. Poles only accounted local church writings on the census where polish priests held the mass.
You lived in Vilnius prior to ww1? Better luck next time bot
@@tomastomastomas1521 no but i can read history books
Im responding to pole. Klausiu lenko
and how these "locals" called themselves? :)
6:55. To make things even more interesting- Pilsudski was a Lithuanian.
No, Józef Piłsudski was Polish, but his family was Polonized Lithuanian nobility. He was born in Żułów, Poland, which is now in Lithuania
@ he regarded himself as a Lithuanian. Hence he loved Vilnius so much.
@@paulmattt Józef Piłsudski considered himself a Polish patriot and statesman, primarily dedicated to achieving an independent Poland, viewing himself as a leader of the Polish independence movement, often prioritizing military action to achieve this goal; he was also a socialist early in his career, aligning with the Polish Socialist Party (PPS) while actively fighting against Russian oppression
@@unsaved6 Yes he identified as Pole, more like Lithuanian Pole, but it doesn't change the fact that his original roots are Lithuanian. His ancestors after all were pagan Lithuanians, not Catholic Poles from Malopolska or so on.
It is a misconception that this conflict was just about Vilnius, the poles had clearly desired to occupy the entire country that was evident by the failed polish coup in Kaunas in 1919.
So says a Lithuanian.
@@stevemangino so says history books. Do not ridicule yourself
Na początku dotyczył wilna
@@stevemangino So say facts. What about the contemporary slogan "Marszalku prowadz nas do Kowna", ever heard about that?
@@fidenemini111 Maybe you should read some objective history books first before you start mindlessly quoting quotes that you don't even understand?
First: the exact slogan was "Wodzu, prowadź nas na Kowno".
Second: it was used only by more nationalist demonstrators, related to the party called National Democracy, "endecja".
Third, and most importantly, this slogan was coined in 1938 in response to a border incident when Lithuanian border guards shot a Polish guard, Stanisław Serafin, who, while pursuing a smuggler, mistakenly entered Lithuanian territory.
The Lithuanians DELIBERATELY did not allow a doctor from the Polish side to approach him, and instead called their own, who needed over an hour to arrive. By that time, Serafin had long since bled to death.
In the face of such behavior, the Polish ultimatum (which demanded only the establishment of diplomatic relations) was still a mild response.
My Grandfather immigrated from Poland to the US in 1910. Family lore says the reason was due to the Balkan Wars, which I never heard of. It seems my grandfather was going to be drafted into this conflict, so he left. Do you have any information on that?
there is no direct links between Balkan wars and Poland
Are you sure your grandfather was Polish???
@@polishgigachad7097
Yes, 100%
@@polishgigachad7097 ah! I know why! A part of Poland was a part of Austro-Hungary empire too and it was there were the Balkan wars took place
@@yurikoshokugan4395
....which is prob why he fled, it wasn't 'his' war.
Woah
WWI and WWII are the same war, interrupted just by small wars
German census of Wilna, 1916:
Poles 74 466 (53,76%)
Jews 57 516 (41,45%)
Lithuanians 2 909 (2,09%)
Russians 2 212 (1,59%)
Germans 880 (0,63%)
Belarussians 611 (0,44%)
Others 193 (0,13%)
Just dropping this little information for some dudes in the comments
Interesting to read.
Jews doing same with London now
@arturasandriusaitis8832 1. That's why I have cited the neutral German census, not Polish or Lithuanian censuses, which were at least in some parts biased and affected by some resettlements. We can also cite the Russian census from 1880s, where the largest ethnic group were Jewish, and Polish behind them.
2. Yup, because Lithuanian authorities in 1939 couldn't have any interest in changing the ethnicities to prove that Vilnius/Wilno/Wilna was ethnic Lithuanian city. I believe you that was totally unbiased.
3. Some Poles may have arrived into Wilna city and region during Interwar - it was natural, as Germans migrating into Breslau, Allenstein or Gleiwitz at the same time, as those cities were in Germany. It's not Africa, there's no need to call it CoLoNiZaTiOn.
To declare yourself Pole was a trend in Lithuania since 19th century or may be even earlier. Because if you say you are Lithuanian it automatically means that you are from village and not educated, let alone if you declare yourself as such outside of Russian Empire - nobody knows what the fuck does it men. During the migrations from Lithuania of the late 19th century to Scotland or States you hardly would find a Lithuanian among these migrants - everyone was listed as "Pole". One of such examples was Johny Ramensky - a Scottish national hero also known as John Ramsay, Gentleman Johnny, and Gentle Johnny ( born Jonas Ramanauskas).
@@arturasandriusaitis8832 1. Censuses of Wilno in late 19th and early 20th centuries shows Lithuanians as very small minority c.a. 2% Majority of local people declared themselves as Polish.
2 Wilno was not always Lithuanian, at last it was Polish from 1920-1939.
Earlier Wilno was in Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth 1569-1795. Wilno was many times occupied by Russia 1656-1662 and 1795-1915, Soviets 1919-1920 and 1939-1941, Germany 1916-1919 and 1941-1944. Therefore Wilno clearly was not always Lithuanian in these times.
3. Wilno region was incorporated to Poland after referendum in 1923. Local people voted which state they want to join. Great majority chose Poland. state. After that Polish borders were internationally recognized by many countries. Then Lithuania lost legal rights to Wilno region.
We had one common enemy: Soviet Russia. Now the foe is the same, though not Soviet.
You make these niches topics interesting enough to help us understand the whole scenario.
Obrigado, Stefan! ヽ(͡◕ ͜ʖ ͡◕)ﾉ 🍀 🇧🇷
👍👍👍
difference between the Polish and German/Austrians. Consider this: Hungarian had less rights (than Lithuanians in their empire) and still Austria, Germany and all the world calls it Austro-Hungarian Empire. Lithuania had much more rights. The capital was moved from Krakow to the border with Lithuania, Warshawa. Poles even don't know that they capital city has Lithuanian name Varžuva (meaning the place in the river loop where you entrap and catch fishes). Did they know that their president's house was built and lived by Lithuanian nobility? Still contemporary they say it was Poland, nothing else. This is a real slavic shovinism. So, in the future EU will be called Belgium. Why? Because EU capital is in Belgium. lol
Not enough is said about the background to this conflict. The population of the region was predominantly identifying as Polish. There were hardly any Lithuanian supporters present. Jews traditionally sided with the stronger, in this case the Poles. The Lithuanians are today coming up with arguments along the line people may have identified as Polish but were descendants of the local Lithuanians. That might be true, but those people saw themselves as Polish none the less and had no desire to live in a separate Lithuanian state. Polish head of state Pilsudski, himself of Lithuanian descent, offered Lithuanians a federal state solution akin to the UK. Pilsudski reckoned correctly a more powerful entity was required to counter German and Russian domination in the region. The Lithuanians wouldn't have it. Shortsighted policy. In March 1939 Lithuania gave in to the German demands and in a similar fashion to the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia ceded Memel to Germany. In 1940 Lithuania becomes soviet property without any shots fired.
Wrong from beginning. Now even in Suvalki, Punsk there are lithuanian speaking population part. All these lands where historicaly lithuanian, not majority was speaking polish. Vilnius was mix of polish/lithuanian/gudian/jewish becouse it was regional center for state for very long. Even polish language was common, lithuanian was spoken often also - it was historical lithuania capital, it was never understood as poland part. Pilsudski had idea of making commonwealth again, he understood what is Lithuania. Poland should have agreed with lithuania independence from beginning and making mutual defence pact, that would have been the best choice, but at that time Poland was fighting with everyone around, even with those with whom Poland would better be united. A lot wrong decisions. You talk about losing memel - but poland has lost everythung in weeks. We lithuanians were safe place for your refugees.
So Russia should get Crimea then? Because after all, it is majority Russian...
@@Just_some_guy_1 Should Ireland get the Northern Ireland then? After all, it is historically Irish...
@comdo831 Yes.
Even now Polish military are not welcomed in Vilnius. Thats why our goverment chose 10 000 German troops over polish ones as Nato troops to guard the border. That war cut deep in future ralations, even felt to this day.
Interesting to read.
Poland isn't even able to deploy large troops' numbers outside of its territory and has no experience in doing so.
That's not true. This decision to invite German brigade has nothing to do with Poland-Lithuania war in the past. Our relationship with Poland is at its peak at the moment and Polish soldiers would be welcomed I have no doubt.
It was normal for Soviets and Germany to support Ukrainians and Lithuanians etc. because they only wanted to stop big Poland from forming again. They wanted Poland as cut up as possible. Their legitimizations mean nothing. They are purely strategic.
Ok occupant
@tomastomastomas1521 says the occupant and ethnic cleanser
@@psemek8000 poles closed lithuanian schools during occupation, fasc..ist boy. Forced polonization = ethnocide
@@tomastomastomas1521 Why would Poland sponsor and upkeep lithuanian governmental schools with Polish taxpayer money in Poland? Lithuania can have its own schools in Lithuania.
Lol Pollocks are wild with their fantasies 🤣
Insted of having the best friend, poles have chosen this...thankfully time is healing wounds and now looks like we starting another chapter. We are brothers and now we both are more matured, so I am sure this wont hapen again!
6:59 Piulsudski wanted to establish an organism confederation consisting from group of nationalities lying between the Baltic and the Black Sea INTERMARIUM
never forgotten
Ok👍
2:55 Why you give a quotation from the German history book. Poles never declared Wilno a Polish city!!!
3:52 Peasants in the East Europe were mostly ilitarate and had no ethnic identity , they only new that they were a Christians Catholic or Orthodox. They were saying that they were people from here. Only the big land owners nobility had the ethnic identity and they consider themselves Polish , Lithuanians and Bialorusians at the same time. They were like Children from a divorcing parents who want they children to say with which parent they want to stay. But the children wanted the parents to stay together. So this was a civil war. Most of Poland's leadership including Piulsudski were from Lithuania. All of soldiers on the unionist side were from Lithuania.
No it was not. It was an occupation
According to this expert on nationality (this term is misunderstood especially in USA and is currently mixed with ethnicity) believes that a farmer speaking lithuanian does not know what his nationality is. By the way, Poland and Lithuania are not in east Europe, that is the current poor knowledge of geography in the west.
Lithuanians understood very well what nation they belong to. First book Martynas Mažvydas "Katekizmas" was not intended to be read by nobility, but rather by commoners. Also read Vytautas letters to Holy Roman emperor. He very clearly stated who are Lithuanians. Beginning of 15c
@@tomastomastomas1521 How on earth Poland could occupy a city where most inhabitants were Polish:))) and Lithuanians constituted 2% of population:)))
@mateuszdrabik8 sovereign countrys borders are untouchable m..ron 🤡
🇱🇹❤🇵🇱
@@WATCHMANand 🧡
In Lithuania, calling a Pole a Pole is an insult. Because even Poles don't want to be Poles. I write without any intention to humiliate or offend, but this is a consequence of Poland's betrayal of Lithuania.
Poles can always move to Poland if they are unwelcome in Lithuania. Think what will happen to Lithuanians when we close the Polish-Lithuanian border.
Please enlighten me, who will close what? here? and why?@@polishgigachad7097
@@laimutisvaitkus4007We can close the Polish-Lithuanian border at any time. If Poles who have been living in Lithuania for centuries continue to be discriminated against, we do not need Lithuania.
@@polishgigachad7097 th-cam.com/video/dqU0xB1VQic/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8SoIQi9sc1EJ9Zx3
@@laimutisvaitkus4007When we close the Polish-Lithuanian border, the only direction you will be able to travel is east.
It is in your interest that Poles in Lithuania feel at home.
Such a tragedy- two nations brothers for centuries. And, as always, fascist Muscovia was the winner.
It's interesting to see that when Poles conquer or attack smaller countries like Lithuania or Czechoslovakia...it's their right and something completely normal and natural. BUT when Russians or Germans do the same to Poles...they start playing victims saying Poland attacked for no reason...not just the WW2 but thought out history
If you don't get the issue of those territories and the fact that those countries were brought to life after years of not being on the map, just stop posting...
Poland didn't conquer Lithuania although easily could do it from the military perspective just too over Wilno region where most of inhabitants were ethnic Poles. Most locals of Wilno region supported incorporation of the region into Poland. It is funny how Lithuanians in that time wanted to build a nation state but did not want to accept the fact that Wilno and its souuroundings were inhabited predominantly by the Poles who preferred to belong to the Polish state:) When it comes to Chechoslovakia, Poland did occupied Zaolzie region in 1938 where also most of the inhabitants were Polish - it was a grave mistake that they took adavantage of the opportunity when Hitler was destroying Tschechoslovakia, encouraging accusations of cooperation with Hitler. However again, Tchechoslovakia conquered Zaolzie against the previous agreement with the Poles in the time when Poland was striving to survive fighting the Bolsheviks and coud not do anything against it. Thus occupying Zaolzie was perceived by the Pols as a restoration of justice.
@@mateuszdrabik8 noone actually talks about Germans inspiring Lithuanians... They were sitting silently in Konigsberg...
I agree, if we wanted to get into Wilno and Lwów because it was polish we should have at least been honorous and give Danzig to germans, sadly it wasn't depended on us but it was a decision of some guy in Versailles so yeah
@@mateuszdrabik8so from reading this, Poland wasn't any different then nazi Germany
So Poland was reestablished after WW1 and the Poles fought the Russians, Lithuanians and who else?
Ukrainians too. And Germans.
@@HistoryHustleAnd Czechs
They waged war against each of their Neighbours.Also Terror and partisan wars against Germany.Thats why quiet a few Germans,and other Europeans,we're of the opinion that the Poles in 1939 we're only getting what they had been begging for since 1919.
F**k around,and find out.
If you look at their warmonger role today,it seems they did'nt have lerned
there lesson.
Had disputes with Slovaks also - (and more recently people from the Middle East, though they themselves recently invaded those countries and Afghanistan)
I think Poland made a massive mistake and missed a great opportunity.
In their own imperial ambitions, they atacked other new nation states and independence movements.
They could have supported Ukrainian, Lithuanian and Belarussian inpependence (they supressed and invaded instead) and formed a aliance of independend coutries, a large and powerful eastern european block.
But the opportunity of that time is long gone.
Khmelnytsky, the Ukrainian "national hero", fought against the Polish "occupiers" and led the Ukrainians straight into the arms of the Muscovites.
Now Ukrainians are looking for refuge in Poland.
What do you think we should do with them???
But Poland supported Ukrainian independence. Ukrainians did not want it, they chose Soviets instead.
@ I suggest you google Polish Ukranian war after ww1
here's the neat part - they did
@@laimis_ulaYeah we fought with western ukrainian republic, we only supported and recognised the republic of Petrula as the only rightful ukrainian republic , not our fault that Ukrainians couldn't find common ground and they had 4 Ukraines at the same time while being attacked by much stronger bolsheviks
14:10 horrific, oh wells rought times
Indeed.
the Polish bourgeoisie in the eastern borderlands has always behaved rudely, bringing shame to ordinary citizens today. As a Pole, I can only express remorse, even though I do not identify myself with the privileged class
Gdzie Ty masz burżuazję na wschodzie? 😂
@@alkopolityk taki biedaczek "oświecony", ale najważniejsze, że walnąl się w piersi aż zahuczało
Now Lithuanians do ethnic cleansing on Poles in Polish areas of Lithuania. They force you to learn lithuanian and take exams in their language in order to advance civically and also you are required to change your legal name in their lithuanization process. Disgusting imperial-wannabe aggressive country.
@@alkopolityk a ło tu: 10:17
@@PabloPopova trochę wstyd nie odróżniać ziemiaństwa od burżuazji
Jogaila + Tannenberg = Kulikovo - Jogaila and the rest is history
And the funniest thing is that Piłsudski was Lithuanian HAHAHAHAHHA
He wasn't. His family roots were. But he was a pole
👍
Simply for him there was no contradiction to be both Pole and Lithuanian simultaneously
First Polish president was also Lithuanian. Comander of Lithuanian army was Polish. Wife of Lithuanian president was Polish
@@alurban1105 Strange times, Gabriel Narutowicz chose to be Polish, while his brother Stanisław Narutowicz decided to be Lithuanian.
What a joke the “curzon line”. Literally satisfies noone and hands the Red Army the best possible outcome
Ok.
I don't know what you want to achieve with this. Do you want to piss us off and discourage us from helping Lithuanians if Russia decides to attack Lithuania 🤔
@@polishgigachad7097 what exactly pisses you off? The fact that your country occupied Lithuanian lands?
@@tomastomastomas1521As far as I know, you came to us to ask for help, not the other way around. If it were not for the voluntary union of the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, most likely no one today would even know that people called Lithuanians ever existed.
@polishgigachad7097 dude, look up a map of 15c. Look at GDL and so called "kingdom". A whale and a sardine. And read history books more carefully, who needed help more lol
Your help would be appreciated but not necessary.German troops already stationed in Lithuania, besides we are part of NATO, so we have other 30 allied countries, excluding Poland.
@@RZakelis Don't delude yourself, bro. Nobody will lift a finger to defend Lithuania. The Germans will sell you without blinking an eye for cheaper gas from Russia. The only ones who actually care about you are Poles. And only because of our sentiment towards the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
🇵🇱🤝🇱🇹
🧡
So it turns out, Lithuanians collaborated with both the Soviets and the Nazis. Nice.
They were locked in between so that is what happened.
@@HistoryHustleWe were in the same situation, but as far as I know, the Polish authorities did not collaborate with either the Germans or the Soviets.
The collaboration with the soviets was very opportunistic and superficial.
Lithuania was the first country to convict nazis, and was.... condemned by the whole Europe at that time! See Neumann-Sass trial in 1934-35.
@@HistoryHustle See Neumann-Sass trial in 1935
Too difficult, but interesting
👍
All polish should do genetic test to see how much Baltic blood they have ha ha.
Polish is not defined by blood, it's about culture. Don't be angry, Lithuanians were chosing Ruthenian and Polish identity.
How to be lithuanian
1. Assimilate into Polish culture
2. Be mad at Poles that you assimilated yourself into thier culture
@@qwerty-p6j what does it mean to assimilate into polish culture? I don't know even one polish song for example.
@@dainagrn7030 he just confirmed your words. People were willingly chosing Polish culture, even if they were genetically Balts. Similarly Lithuanian elites ruthenized themselves when they conquered Ruthenian lands.
@Glassius89 what does it mean ruthenise? At least one example what is ruthenised in Lithuania today?
Thanks god, Poles and Lithuanians finaly have good relationship now, as it suposed to be. ❤
We have same friends and same enemys....
🧡