Soar is cool and all but why doesn't it have vigor and benefit from dragonriding talents? you can't even soar for that long and you still have to use a dragonriding mount as a dracthyr. playing a dragon that needs a dragon to stay flying is kinda immersion breaking
In similar veins (pun intended) getting the empowering of special herb/ore veins should be castable while mounted once you max out botany and mining process
Yeah it seems like a total no brainer to just let soar be dragonriding in DF zones. I get that the dragon customisations and stuff was a feature of the expac they want people to interact with, but I'd much rather my dracthyr use his own wings. I never even use soar as it's worse in every practical way.
If they really want tanking to be more accessible in things like mythic+, strip all the mobs except for the ones in the main path that add up to the count you need at the end. Tailor the experience each season around that path. Hell, maybe even show the mobs/packs on the dungeon map itself. If you're pugging, you're expected to have a lot of knowledge that the game doesn't give you and that's not a great start when trying to get into that system. Especially when everyone's already expecting you to lead.
I wasn't super excited when reading and changing Warrior and Rogue talents, but paladin talents greatly interested me and changing talents often is actually impactful. As Ret the "popular" M+/raid/and pvp builds are all wildly different. Changing your normal raid single target build on fights that benefits from more cleave and dots is actually impactful. Changing a few talents in pvp based on enemy composition matters. For Retribution I couldn't use a set it and forget it mentally and succeed as well as I do. For SL in pvp talents, conduits, and covenants were set and forget for Ret.
That's strange. I really enjoy Devastation. It feels like a MOP class in the sense that it has its base rotation, but it also wants you to break the mold to truly soar.
I feel the same, it's also the first new expansion class that had interest in them wane super quickly imho, way before the end of the first "season". Especially devastation feels kinda odd and clucky still. I hear good things about the healer, but I never liked healing in WoW to begin with and evoker didn't change that. I'm glad they went for a caster for once, but I personally would have liked a caster that goes deeper in some under or not yet explored elements, like earth, water (not ice), wind or lightning. Instead we got thematically another caster that uses fire, ice and arcane just all at the same time. Essetially mage turned into a discount shaman. Also for a dragon themed class I find the lack of a tank option a woefull lapse in judgement. That and the lack of proper transmog options, that is probably what kills the class mostly right now.
I’m new to WoW, only been playing for around a year, and I mained evoker for the first few months. Preservation is insanely fun, I have almost no complaints about it. Devastation is just really clunky and way too simple.
I can see where you’re coming from. I find devastation alright, but preservation is immensely fun and interesting. I’d also put it down to it’s not finished. They’re missing a specialization 😜
The mastery is so incredibly counter intuitive to designed gameplay. Oh you do all your damage up front and are a burst machine! Well we can't have it work in PvP because, psh, thats just silly, so nerfs all around! Just give us a different mastery that doesn't completely ruin gameplay!
I am hoping the Dracthyr stay Evoker only and we get the drakonids turned into an allied race with access to all the player classes. More options for player races is always a win.
I kinda love the argument: Player choice mattered with the smaller talent system, only meaningful choices. -Blizzard also nerfs the other options of the three they do not want the players to pick.
I’ve loved the new trees. On classes/specs I’ve played a lot I get to tweak stuff a lot and on stuff I’m not comfy with I can just use recommended builds and not worry! I’ve found with enhancement I’m changing a couple class tree points every M boss to better adapt. On M Broodkeeper we had 2 enhance shams and we both played totally different builds. One adds group and me on boss. It’s really cool being able to do that.
13:37 (yep that's a really cool timestamp) How to keep tank specs accessible and *give veteran tanks a spec that's a bit more off the deepend: give a tank spec to the class that has you literally type out ADVANCED. You are welcome swolinka I expect my bag in the mail soon :) (*edit: wording)
So interesting to hear, honestly one thing Id love, is to have basically another talent tree focused on your weapon, so that talents that make you get more crits with 2H swords etc could go there instead. Might even be an interesting synergy with crafting if people would look for axes for an example, and then they’d have to seek out the servers best axe crafters
I keep hoping they'll add a system kind of like how runes or whatever they were called used to work, something we can use on a skill in the talent tree that will change how the skill looks (like BFAs powers)
Devastation Evoker is really not something to write about but the ret rework so far has been really good. Also Dracthyr aka lizard boys were a huge design mistake. It shouldve been a dragon similar to the bulky ones or atleast give that choice. Why would I play a lizard pretending dragon fraud? Biggest turn off for me.
Huge disagree. I love androgynous lizard spellcasters. Far more character than just another overtly hypermuscular humanoid WoW kinda tends to lean towards.
@@AT-yu2op yeah cant wait for pricks like you to play evoker and fill the screen up making it unfun for everyone else but hey who cares, atleast you get to have your fun which is what blizzard should focus on right? Screw the rest
Ive always been wondering why wow stuck out to me so much. I have played FF14, I have played Guild Wars, I have played this and I have played that but none of them really excited me so when I quit wow in the end of Firelands, I didn't "seek refuge" with another game, I dropped MMOs in general and while there are probably an incredibly complicated graph of interconnected small and large reasons that make up why WoW is so special to me compared to any other MMO, I think class design and playstyle diversity is one of the big reasons. And the fact that you have classes for pretty much any skill level. Back when I played, and I wouldn't be too surprised if it's still true, survival hunter was the single coolest class in the game, it's just that it's a pretty complicated class if you want to perform well. Then, on the opposite side of the spectrum, you have frost mage. still a really cool class. ice magic has always been my jam but it is an incredibly easy class to play at a pretty high level. I'm sure there are nuances still let the truly good players stick out, but even at my level, just with some basic knowledge of how the class works how the spells interact with each other, I can play it at a level to where most players (since most players don't do much research at all outside of copy pasting a talent build) will look at it and be like, how the fuck are you doing this much damage at your gear level? That said, while Frost mage is certainly a comfortable class for me to play. If I ever do go back to WoW (which will probably happen if the Blizzard continues on it's current path as I have understood it (and I'm not still broke)) I would like to go ou t of my comfort zone. I played a healer in FF14 which was absolutely outside of my comfort zone (but I did it because I wanted good queue times and FF14 tanking was the most boring slog I have ever subjected myself to) I did enjoy that but I have never healed in wow and it frankly scares me lol. However, from what little I know of evoker healing (all from this video lol) it sounds interesting enough to at least give a go and if there is one thing I enjoy in this world it's healer banter. Unless evoker uses mail armor, then I'm out... checking... WELL, this is awkward... hopefully mail armor stops being so god damn ugly by the time I'm back...
DK and DH were game changers, Evoker doesn't feel that way for some reason. Probably that they are not "edgy" and not really based on cool characters prior to wow.
@@warhammerguy I don't think they did. Their spells and abilities are very recognizably draconic as are their looks, far more so than the suggestions I've seen when it comes to "fixing" the class.
DKs wouldn't be more game-changing than Evoker if they swapped release dates.. If not for them being "OP" lvl 55 hero classes, DKs wouldn't be very unique at all. They're kind of just warlock paladins... DH changed the game with their wings and movement. Evokers are just mages with -redbull- wings so... DH already did that.
@@loser-nobody uh no dks were game changer in a way that they were the FIRST hero class ever with its own starter zone, starting lvl and all the good stuff like free enchants also they arent just "warlock paladin", people love arthas and wanted to play the same class he was, it was edgy and badass, everything people wanted at that time
@@mesmerising4253 that's not anything unique to DK's tho? If any class in the game was thrown in its spot nothing would change. If you swapped Demon Hunter and Death Knight around, what does the Death Knight bring? "Oh but they're based on Arthas and Arthas is a classic character," *so are all of the dragon aspects, which are what evokers are based on*
It's legitimately confusing to me that there is footage of Preach sorting dice or playing as a Warrior in place of the interview footage itself in some places. I can't tell if he didn't like these people and he's doing it on purpose or if he thought footage of himself was more interesting than the footage of the game devs. It gave me a difficult time focusing on what was being said due to my distractyness. Just a bit weirded out that the irrelevant footage of just Preach was used. 😅
Why? What kind of tank spec does the game want that it doesn't already have? I feel like a lot of people say they want a new tank, but don't actually even play tanks, because currently you have pretty much every kind of approach to the role covered.
I guess in terms of class fantasy the evoker could use the more earthy/obsidian aspect and harden its skin to take less damage, have a 2 min cooldown that uses the earth to create a stone shield for like 20-30 secs, stuff like that, they would def need the dragonkin model ( im not sure that's what they're called) basically the bigger dragon humanoid model
Every time I see someone angry that Dracthyr aren’t super buff ripped dragon daddies, I love mine a little more. We need both of course, but that should be another race for people that want their dragons to look like orcs with scales. I think the Dracthyr are exactly what they needed to be.
Thats a weird take. Tanks healing is generally on themselves. Blood dk core gameplay revolves around outhealing the damage they get for example. its not ignoring damage like other tanks which is unique. also Its not like they do the healer's job. If anything they alleviate some the healer's pressure. Also why would a healer try to compete with a tank in hps in the first place.
yes lets make the most unrepresented role the most boring. tank should do as much dmg as dps if played well and should be self sufficient if played well. otherwise why would we play tank? to be at the mercy of the group?
@@Dilllll26 Never said they should be boring. Tanks should never be competitive with a pure dps class though. All I was doing was pointing out what Holinka said because it's currently in the game but even more absurd. Shouldn't be having top 100 keys in the world ran by 4 dps and 1 tank.
@@SunniestAutumn true there is no need for more melee but dragon class not making use of its hard scales, claws and jaws is just bad, could have made it into range/melee hybrid class instead
Reasons I personally don't like the talent system and don't really experiment because stuff generally isn't close enough in over all dps so I could spend an hour and really read everything and pick all the stuff I think is useful or sounds cool but then I go into m+ and I'm doing 2/3 of the damage or living half as often then I would have if I just went to subcreation and copied the most popular loadout. As someone that may not be doing cutting edge content I also don't want to be a bag of sand weighing down my team because the is rude and doesn't make me feel good with myself. To me is it the illusion of options not real options.
The lack of armor on the Drac'thyr skeleton feels like an actual issue to be addressed, but beyond that I fail to see how Evokers were "half-baked'? Both of the specs feel unique and complete and having two specs was already a thing with Demon Hunters, although it dors seem like there's a third one on its way.
So a pve guy is interviewing a pvp developer and praising his work while continually talking about pve? Makes sense. PvP has been in a slow decline since the end of MoP when Holinka took over. This pve conversation is just more proof.
The video literally starts by addressing that Holinka is more than just the guy you tag on twitter when PVP is unbalanced. You really didn't watch even a minute of the video before commenting.
@@SunniestAutumn More clueless wow logic. How would I know they talked entirely about pve if I didn't watch? What does any of this have to with Holinka and pvp being an absolute dumpster fire? You don't have a clue about pvp before white knighting. Is this Brian?
The new talents are absolutly horrible. They seem to forget that in vanilla. You had one build / specc. Yes the mage respecced from frost to fire arcane for pvp or the tank from prot to arms. But you didnt swap any talents in the tree for different situations. Now its totally sensory overload to swap talants and its not clear how you need to swap around points to get what you want and what you will lose to get what you want. The 3 talent row times x was waaaaaaay better. Its very easy to see what you you have to choose between. And when you want to respecc you will easily know what to do
In vanilla you didn't change talents between fights because there was an ever-increasing gold cost to it AND, in general, players weren't good enough to take care of any such flexibility. If you play anything less difficult than mythic raiding, you still don't need to change talents between encounters. The ability to make small customizations is an overall positive and should not be sacrificed because it upsets a few people who strive for instrumental play without ever having a reasonable chance or necessity to reach it.
Evoker was such a damn waste of space when it comes to class design... they could've went with anything along the lines of bard, engineer, artificer, warden and somehow they decided the best option was another damn arcane caster where they shoehorned whatever D3's Wizard had left...?
“Another arcane caster” bro this is the first caster ever introduced lmao. I do agree the design of Evoker was a bit of a fail though. But none of the classes you said make lore sense with DF. They really only add a class when it fits the lore
Bards aren't a thing in the lore of WoW, Engineer is a profession and Warden is just a mix of rogue and warrior. I'd rather have something cool and unique like Evoker.
@@zoovaado7759 I disagree with it sounding cool and plenty of other things 'make sense' waste of effort that adds 2 more trees to balance round and clutter their design.
As an Evoker player, I agree, the gameplay is fantastic! I don't really pvp, but in pve my biggest pet peeve is the amount of threat you generate in aoe being off the chains. It's always a gamble to do the proper aoe opener, because there's a chance the tank just won't be able to hold and get back aggro. But even that is kind of a fun problem to have, since you have tools to mitigate it.
@@ExValeFor Not really a mark of anything other than reading the comments. You really need to give up on armchair psychology, you're really bad at it.
Never before has the question "how gay and uncool can we possibly make dragons?" been answered more completely by man. Truly an accomplishment for the ages.
Oh look at this. A gamer in 2023 still using "gay" as an insult. I thought most of you died or got imprisoned for sexual assault already. Which way are you going?
Im really baffled by some of these comments. I LOVE Evoker. i rerolled from priest (disc/holy) to prevoker and it feels *amazing*. I like the dracthyr model a lot, they dont feel like your standard mindless dragon only-good-for-standing-guard-at-random-hallway nb. 5279-musclegimp. They cant be quadrupedal, which makes sense, so the way they are is awesome. also: they are RANGED which was something that I always hated about ne classes this far. No new ranged spec, only one healer (and fistweaver is melee too :/ ) Damn, we went into Legion with 3 new melee specs and -1 ranged (surv hunter) It was about damn time range/heal got some love! Prevoker plays a lot like disc, which I *really* like. But its so much more mobile. the more nimble build of the model sells the caster better (and the quick movement!) - bulky orc mages and tauren priests always looked stupid imo. Or your belf-lady warriors. For the sake of gameplay I would like for dracthyr to eventually get access to more classes. But dont give them the upper body of a tauren and the bum of a draenei,pls?
I think most of the people who dislike evoker don't play healer. Devastation is kinda dull to be honest, Preservation is the better evoker spec by far. I disagree with you about the models, I think they made the faces too expressive and it makes them look kinda goofy imo, but it's personal preference, I get why some people like them, I just prefer dragons to look more draconic.
@@EvilRobotSteve Devastation is kinda nails tbh. Maybe not fir everyone, but it's so satisfying to bend the intended class design and get rewarded massively in return.
@@EvilRobotSteve I only offspec devastation, it seems fine enough for me. Not exactly rocket science, but good enough for open world chenanigans. And obviously how the models look is preference, but I dont get the extremly diminishing comments of some people. Theres so many dracthyr around, if they were as bad as they spout, noone would play them. I also really like how expressive their faces are, I wanna play a character, not a pet brick :D
Evoker, no matter preservation or devastation, is the worst class in game. They feel like a class made with whole bunch of unrelated talents stitched together so they can do cool animations. Hey and let's buff preservation coefficient up so they do ridiculous healing without using mana. Horribly funny talent design.
Yeah let's talk about overlapping which, in m+, a mw monk has to deal damage, cc interrupt, heal and avoid stuff, 4 things, at the same time, and when you want to play the ranged version, the clearly brain dead key holder, which ofc is the leade, sees you casting and asks why are you not pure feastwaving and when you tell him that actually currently the ranged spec does more healing with less risk he tells you that you like afk healing even though you are spamming heals here and there to keep people alive, he kicks you and then leaves the key instantly, for an opinion, yes an a wrong one, while we are doing the first boss, when no one has died so far, which we killed without me being in he group because i didn't want to let people die, yes, this happened today, to me. This is why very few people play mw monks, because it's made to be a very difficult and impractical spec and its damage to healing shtick is really pathetic in terms of throughput especially with all the things the player of a monk character is asked to perform along side basic class things, like healing, even with Sheilun's Gift included (including the new Legacy of Wisdom talent) feastweaving can't exist unless you want to torture yourself to death.
not quite 99% of the time people dont care what healer is doing as long as they are alive also people dont play monk becouse almost every other healer is simply better, its not becouse of difficulty, that never stopped players from playing meta specs
@@mesmerising4253 "people dont play monk becouse almost every other healer is simply better" I am saying the same thing but it is also because it's a more difficult player.
@@georgeindestructible i repeat, complexity of the spec never stopped playerbase from playing it if the spec was doing numbers and had good toolkit for the content currently monk pulls meh numbers and has just ok toolkit, those are the only reasons its not being picked, difficulty doesnt matter
@@mesmerising4253 Agree to disagree then, because most players even at high keys tend to play the easiest to play classes and monk is not one of them, as a monk player i can say that very confidently because i said in my initial comment, any player of the sub spec mw is asked to do too much in the game and that's a fact.
@@georgeindestructible thats not true, best examples would be spriest, sub+outlaw rogue, windwalker and enh shaman all of those specs are difficult to play but are top picks for damage and utility they bring to the party in both mdi and highest key plays
So was it a coincidence that the NPC dracthyr all look 10x better than the player models, or was it an intentional choice to remind the player we're worth less?
All NPC Drac'thyr like Emberthal and Sarkareth are literally 1-to-1 compatible with what you can make on character creation screen. Sounds to me like you really just suck at making your character look interesting.
so we can blame them for the abysmal creature that is twink dragons? aight. oh and to finish the title, it should of read " Creating the MISTAKE- Brian Holinka + Graham Berger"
Considering that every person who has said this so far has mostly been disappointed that the Drac'thyr don't fill their lizard-fucking fantasies, I don't hold high hopes for you, but I'll ask anyway: Why don't you like Evoker?
Lizards don't have recognizable gender differences in the same ways humans do. I struggle to interpret this in any way other than you wanting lizard tits. For that, I have a gamechanger for you: google furaffinity.
What? What did you want humanoid dragons to look like, bodybuilders? Because you can make your drac'thyr quite bulky as it currently is, if you so choose.
Hats off to them, they really went for the long term April Fools. I mean they got me; what with sticking with the "We're all really scaly" thing for all this time and with a straight face. Those fake twitter accounts showing the design team was a bunch of furry artists... classic! So when are they swapping it out for the real class?
it's cool and all what they are talking about and how the megadesighned the new class ...but warlock exists . i cant listen to people seriously if such things coexist in same game . giving 2 classes passive mobility with just pressing space bar twice and warlock having to take 3 talents to use sprint that eats hp ...i really dont want to explain the rest things that are wrong with their desighn...coz really..nobody gives a single fuck
"Have you ever wondered who is behind all these new talent trees, brand new class"- YES, SO I CAN FIRE THEM. They're awful. the lizard with wings, the warlock, many other classes, all of it, just scorched earth on their career please.
Lmao no thanks 🤣 Dracthyr just look…ugly. Extremely ugly. I prefer my Au Ra in FFXIV. Plus the dragons in FFXIV break the norm of how dragons are and came to be in an MMO. Hint: they are aliens.
@@Sero4 WoW is cringe. Everything about it is. It’s a freaking cartoon of a game. But you will say “go play your weeb game!” Well guess what? Anime is better than a poorly animated cartoon game with a forgettable story. At least my character matters in my game, and I can play all classes on one character. Plus my Elezen (elf) is hotter than some cockroach-eyebrow elf that looks like a skank.
@@Sero4 Lol, sure thing, bud. Go play your furry and scaly game. WoW and Blizzard are suffering so bad financially so that’s why Microsoft is buying them. I rather support a company that cares about its playerbase than pay a company with a history of sex scandals, sexual harassment, unfair treatment to women and minorities, and stealing breast milk.
@Helmut Salvatore a cartoony and ugly AF Orc doesn’t sound appealing at all lol. I can switch to being a Warrior and use a great axe as a weapon while harnessing an inner beast to lay waste to foes. At least when I’m playing as a Paladin right now, my character doesn’t have a battle stance that looks like I’m about to swing a baseball bat and piss my pants in fear at the same time. My character actually poses like Link from The Legend of Zelda.
It’s wild that graham was my raid leader in Sunwell and now he’s working on the game
You were in the same guild? What did he play? How was he? :D
@@FGazi-qf1hp DH and he was like muffin.
@@FGazi-qf1hp he was our main tank for a bit as a prot warrior. He has a very famous wow rage video too lol
@@joegibbs9646 link? :D
Joe Gibbs
Wild or sad?
Soar is cool and all but why doesn't it have vigor and benefit from dragonriding talents? you can't even soar for that long and you still have to use a dragonriding mount as a dracthyr. playing a dragon that needs a dragon to stay flying is kinda immersion breaking
In similar veins (pun intended) getting the empowering of special herb/ore veins should be castable while mounted once you max out botany and mining process
Yeah it seems like a total no brainer to just let soar be dragonriding in DF zones. I get that the dragon customisations and stuff was a feature of the expac they want people to interact with, but I'd much rather my dracthyr use his own wings. I never even use soar as it's worse in every practical way.
I've been leveling and gearing all my alts with the newest patch and it has been a blast. They really nailed the new talent trees. I love them.
If they really want tanking to be more accessible in things like mythic+, strip all the mobs except for the ones in the main path that add up to the count you need at the end. Tailor the experience each season around that path. Hell, maybe even show the mobs/packs on the dungeon map itself. If you're pugging, you're expected to have a lot of knowledge that the game doesn't give you and that's not a great start when trying to get into that system. Especially when everyone's already expecting you to lead.
I tank in almost every game is tanking in WoW after being gone for a while gives me straight up anxiety.
They need to do everything you said and more.
I wasn't super excited when reading and changing Warrior and Rogue talents, but paladin talents greatly interested me and changing talents often is actually impactful. As Ret the "popular" M+/raid/and pvp builds are all wildly different. Changing your normal raid single target build on fights that benefits from more cleave and dots is actually impactful. Changing a few talents in pvp based on enemy composition matters. For Retribution I couldn't use a set it and forget it mentally and succeed as well as I do. For SL in pvp talents, conduits, and covenants were set and forget for Ret.
I feel like the evoker (devastation) is the first class they've added to the game that missed the mark.
That's strange. I really enjoy Devastation. It feels like a MOP class in the sense that it has its base rotation, but it also wants you to break the mold to truly soar.
I feel the same, it's also the first new expansion class that had interest in them wane super quickly imho, way before the end of the first "season". Especially devastation feels kinda odd and clucky still. I hear good things about the healer, but I never liked healing in WoW to begin with and evoker didn't change that.
I'm glad they went for a caster for once, but I personally would have liked a caster that goes deeper in some under or not yet explored elements, like earth, water (not ice), wind or lightning. Instead we got thematically another caster that uses fire, ice and arcane just all at the same time. Essetially mage turned into a discount shaman. Also for a dragon themed class I find the lack of a tank option a woefull lapse in judgement. That and the lack of proper transmog options, that is probably what kills the class mostly right now.
I’m new to WoW, only been playing for around a year, and I mained evoker for the first few months. Preservation is insanely fun, I have almost no complaints about it. Devastation is just really clunky and way too simple.
I can see where you’re coming from. I find devastation alright, but preservation is immensely fun and interesting.
I’d also put it down to it’s not finished. They’re missing a specialization 😜
The mastery is so incredibly counter intuitive to designed gameplay. Oh you do all your damage up front and are a burst machine! Well we can't have it work in PvP because, psh, thats just silly, so nerfs all around! Just give us a different mastery that doesn't completely ruin gameplay!
Such a great convo.
These guys are great at their jobs.
now that's an april fools comment
Been looking forward to this one, ty!
Would've been nicer to have more dragon-like shapes. I love the class but playing a gecko with wings is unappealing.
For real, if they release a tank spec im hoping they make em a bit more buff.
I hate the dracthyr. Of course modern blizzard makes dragons lame twinks.
I am hoping the Dracthyr stay Evoker only and we get the drakonids turned into an allied race with access to all the player classes. More options for player races is always a win.
Hahaha that’s jokes
If the original goal of new talent trees was to not have to sacrifice throughput for utility... why are they like this!?
One thing I never understood is why not put utility into the class tree and replace the %dmg increase nodes in the class tree
I kinda love the argument: Player choice mattered with the smaller talent system, only meaningful choices.
-Blizzard also nerfs the other options of the three they do not want the players to pick.
I would play an evoker if dracthyr weren’t so ugly looking , they look silly
I’ve loved the new trees. On classes/specs I’ve played a lot I get to tweak stuff a lot and on stuff I’m not comfy with I can just use recommended builds and not worry!
I’ve found with enhancement I’m changing a couple class tree points every M boss to better adapt. On M Broodkeeper we had 2 enhance shams and we both played totally different builds. One adds group and me on boss. It’s really cool being able to do that.
the Dracthyr as a race with more access to classes, would probably had been better than just making it simply a class.
13:37 (yep that's a really cool timestamp)
How to keep tank specs accessible and *give veteran tanks a spec that's a bit more off the deepend:
give a tank spec to the class that has you literally type out ADVANCED.
You are welcome swolinka I expect my bag in the mail soon :)
(*edit: wording)
So interesting to hear, honestly one thing Id love, is to have basically another talent tree focused on your weapon, so that talents that make you get more crits with 2H swords etc could go there instead. Might even be an interesting synergy with crafting if people would look for axes for an example, and then they’d have to seek out the servers best axe crafters
and people would just get the weapon type that gives more DPS
I keep hoping they'll add a system kind of like how runes or whatever they were called used to work, something we can use on a skill in the talent tree that will change how the skill looks (like BFAs powers)
nice interview.
Devastation Evoker is really not something to write about but the ret rework so far has been really good. Also Dracthyr aka lizard boys were a huge design mistake. It shouldve been a dragon similar to the bulky ones or atleast give that choice. Why would I play a lizard pretending dragon fraud? Biggest turn off for me.
Huge disagree. I love androgynous lizard spellcasters. Far more character than just another overtly hypermuscular humanoid WoW kinda tends to lean towards.
@@SunniestAutumn Ok so give no extra option for people who arent into lizard boy frauds.
@@AT-yu2op yeah cant wait for pricks like you to play evoker and fill the screen up making it unfun for everyone else
but hey who cares, atleast you get to have your fun which is what blizzard should focus on right? Screw the rest
Ive always been wondering why wow stuck out to me so much. I have played FF14, I have played Guild Wars, I have played this and I have played that but none of them really excited me so when I quit wow in the end of Firelands, I didn't "seek refuge" with another game, I dropped MMOs in general and while there are probably an incredibly complicated graph of interconnected small and large reasons that make up why WoW is so special to me compared to any other MMO, I think class design and playstyle diversity is one of the big reasons. And the fact that you have classes for pretty much any skill level. Back when I played, and I wouldn't be too surprised if it's still true, survival hunter was the single coolest class in the game, it's just that it's a pretty complicated class if you want to perform well. Then, on the opposite side of the spectrum, you have frost mage. still a really cool class. ice magic has always been my jam but it is an incredibly easy class to play at a pretty high level. I'm sure there are nuances still let the truly good players stick out, but even at my level, just with some basic knowledge of how the class works how the spells interact with each other, I can play it at a level to where most players (since most players don't do much research at all outside of copy pasting a talent build) will look at it and be like, how the fuck are you doing this much damage at your gear level?
That said, while Frost mage is certainly a comfortable class for me to play. If I ever do go back to WoW (which will probably happen if the Blizzard continues on it's current path as I have understood it (and I'm not still broke)) I would like to go ou t of my comfort zone. I played a healer in FF14 which was absolutely outside of my comfort zone (but I did it because I wanted good queue times and FF14 tanking was the most boring slog I have ever subjected myself to) I did enjoy that but I have never healed in wow and it frankly scares me lol. However, from what little I know of evoker healing (all from this video lol) it sounds interesting enough to at least give a go and if there is one thing I enjoy in this world it's healer banter. Unless evoker uses mail armor, then I'm out... checking... WELL, this is awkward... hopefully mail armor stops being so god damn ugly by the time I'm back...
DK and DH were game changers, Evoker doesn't feel that way for some reason. Probably that they are not "edgy" and not really based on cool characters prior to wow.
I think it is more that it missed the mark on the class fantasy of playing a dragon class.
@@warhammerguy I don't think they did. Their spells and abilities are very recognizably draconic as are their looks, far more so than the suggestions I've seen when it comes to "fixing" the class.
DKs wouldn't be more game-changing than Evoker if they swapped release dates..
If not for them being "OP" lvl 55 hero classes, DKs wouldn't be very unique at all. They're kind of just warlock paladins...
DH changed the game with their wings and movement.
Evokers are just mages with -redbull- wings so... DH already did that.
@@loser-nobody uh no
dks were game changer in a way that they were the FIRST hero class ever with its own starter zone, starting lvl and all the good stuff like free enchants
also they arent just "warlock paladin", people love arthas and wanted to play the same class he was, it was edgy and badass, everything people wanted at that time
@@mesmerising4253 that's not anything unique to DK's tho? If any class in the game was thrown in its spot nothing would change. If you swapped Demon Hunter and Death Knight around, what does the Death Knight bring?
"Oh but they're based on Arthas and Arthas is a classic character," *so are all of the dragon aspects, which are what evokers are based on*
It's legitimately confusing to me that there is footage of Preach sorting dice or playing as a Warrior in place of the interview footage itself in some places. I can't tell if he didn't like these people and he's doing it on purpose or if he thought footage of himself was more interesting than the footage of the game devs.
It gave me a difficult time focusing on what was being said due to my distractyness.
Just a bit weirded out that the irrelevant footage of just Preach was used. 😅
It was actually relevant, if you know the video the footage is from.
I liked the vengeance era. Pulled the highest performance a warrior was ever capable off back then. Especially in old content.
still think evokers should of been able to tank blizzard missed out a huge opportunity on that one i personally think
Why? What kind of tank spec does the game want that it doesn't already have? I feel like a lot of people say they want a new tank, but don't actually even play tanks, because currently you have pretty much every kind of approach to the role covered.
I guess in terms of class fantasy the evoker could use the more earthy/obsidian aspect and harden its skin to take less damage, have a 2 min cooldown that uses the earth to create a stone shield for like 20-30 secs, stuff like that, they would def need the dragonkin model ( im not sure that's what they're called) basically the bigger dragon humanoid model
16:30 holinka going "oh wow" in a mid-western accent is the best :P
Can they tell me who worked on mage… cuz I got words
Literally this whole conversation is contradictory to the mage class and talents: choice, rotation complexity
Every time I see someone angry that Dracthyr aren’t super buff ripped dragon daddies, I love mine a little more.
We need both of course, but that should be another race for people that want their dragons to look like orcs with scales. I think the Dracthyr are exactly what they needed to be.
I think those people would have their life-necessities met if they simply googled Furaffinity.
"Tanks did too much damage and that didn't feel well". Proceeds to make them competitive in dps, while out healing the healer.
Thats a weird take. Tanks healing is generally on themselves. Blood dk core gameplay revolves around outhealing the damage they get for example. its not ignoring damage like other tanks which is unique. also Its not like they do the healer's job. If anything they alleviate some the healer's pressure. Also why would a healer try to compete with a tank in hps in the first place.
yes lets make the most unrepresented role the most boring. tank should do as much dmg as dps if played well and should be self sufficient if played well. otherwise why would we play tank? to be at the mercy of the group?
@@Dilllll26 Never said they should be boring. Tanks should never be competitive with a pure dps class though. All I was doing was pointing out what Holinka said because it's currently in the game but even more absurd. Shouldn't be having top 100 keys in the world ran by 4 dps and 1 tank.
As cool as soar is, it makes me sad I haven't touched it since the expansion started. It's an inferior dragon riding.
Blizz really missed the mark with no tank/dragon knight spec for Evoker... hopefully we get it in the future.
If only they had added 8 melee specs into the game over the years to compensate. Oh wait, they added 9.
@@SunniestAutumn true there is no need for more melee but dragon class not making use of its hard scales, claws and jaws is just bad, could have made it into range/melee hybrid class instead
@@mesmerising4253 That is not the class fantasy, though. You are not a warrior, Evoker is a spellcaster.
Next class will be a mana using Mage tank with spell shields
This interview released way too late
the base in the opening of the video was too high
Reasons I personally don't like the talent system and don't really experiment because stuff generally isn't close enough in over all dps so I could spend an hour and really read everything and pick all the stuff I think is useful or sounds cool but then I go into m+ and I'm doing 2/3 of the damage or living half as often then I would have if I just went to subcreation and copied the most popular loadout. As someone that may not be doing cutting edge content I also don't want to be a bag of sand weighing down my team because the is rude and doesn't make me feel good with myself. To me is it the illusion of options not real options.
Tanks are doing way more damage in most of my dungeon runs.
So why does holy Paladin bad at HPS and DPS?
Sounds like a skill issue tbf.
Evoker was beyond half baked, only 2 specs, didn't even bother to model armor to fit its race. Totally unacceptable.
The lack of armor on the Drac'thyr skeleton feels like an actual issue to be addressed, but beyond that I fail to see how Evokers were "half-baked'? Both of the specs feel unique and complete and having two specs was already a thing with Demon Hunters, although it dors seem like there's a third one on its way.
@@SunniestAutumn is a kiss ass, and a make a wish kid
if evokers are dragons then im a shoe
if your a shoe then im a sock
I guess if you want to identify as a shoe, that's cool. 👍
Okay! That's a bit weird and I don't see why you would soapbox your foot fetish on a gaming video, but you do you.
So a pve guy is interviewing a pvp developer and praising his work while continually talking about pve? Makes sense. PvP has been in a slow decline since the end of MoP when Holinka took over. This pve conversation is just more proof.
Imagine acknowledging content outside m+ and raiding exists lol
The video literally starts by addressing that Holinka is more than just the guy you tag on twitter when PVP is unbalanced. You really didn't watch even a minute of the video before commenting.
@@SunniestAutumn More clueless wow logic. How would I know they talked entirely about pve if I didn't watch? What does any of this have to with Holinka and pvp being an absolute dumpster fire? You don't have a clue about pvp before white knighting. Is this Brian?
The new talents are absolutly horrible. They seem to forget that in vanilla. You had one build / specc. Yes the mage respecced from frost to fire arcane for pvp or the tank from prot to arms. But you didnt swap any talents in the tree for different situations. Now its totally sensory overload to swap talants and its not clear how you need to swap around points to get what you want and what you will lose to get what you want. The 3 talent row times x was waaaaaaay better. Its very easy to see what you you have to choose between. And when you want to respecc you will easily know what to do
In vanilla you didn't change talents between fights because there was an ever-increasing gold cost to it AND, in general, players weren't good enough to take care of any such flexibility. If you play anything less difficult than mythic raiding, you still don't need to change talents between encounters. The ability to make small customizations is an overall positive and should not be sacrificed because it upsets a few people who strive for instrumental play without ever having a reasonable chance or necessity to reach it.
Evoker was such a damn waste of space when it comes to class design... they could've went with anything along the lines of bard, engineer, artificer, warden and somehow they decided the best option was another damn arcane caster where they shoehorned whatever D3's Wizard had left...?
“Another arcane caster” bro this is the first caster ever introduced lmao. I do agree the design of Evoker was a bit of a fail though. But none of the classes you said make lore sense with DF. They really only add a class when it fits the lore
@@zoovaado7759 Don't make a class in this expac then lol
Bards aren't a thing in the lore of WoW, Engineer is a profession and Warden is just a mix of rogue and warrior. I'd rather have something cool and unique like Evoker.
@@ExValeFor why not? It makes sense lore wise and is a cool idea on paper. They simply didn’t design the dps spec very well. That can always be fixed
@@zoovaado7759 I disagree with it sounding cool and plenty of other things 'make sense' waste of effort that adds 2 more trees to balance round and clutter their design.
Dracthyr look more like lizard men have they been playing too much skyrim before designing them?
First...? Accidentally? Lets...FREAKING GO?
They look like geckos. Not cool enough just in my personal opinion to each his /her own though but damn they look ugly and uncool.
I think they look cool. Their looks are perfect for a draconic spellcaster imo.
@@SunniestAutumn is a kiss ass
Usually only the people who complain all the time comment so it looks mostly negative. Evoker is super fun. Kiting melee to death is satisfying.
As an Evoker player, I agree, the gameplay is fantastic! I don't really pvp, but in pve my biggest pet peeve is the amount of threat you generate in aoe being off the chains. It's always a gamble to do the proper aoe opener, because there's a chance the tank just won't be able to hold and get back aggro. But even that is kind of a fun problem to have, since you have tools to mitigate it.
it really shows that you felt compelled to say this. insecure much?
@@ExValeFor Not really a mark of anything other than reading the comments. You really need to give up on armchair psychology, you're really bad at it.
das crazy
The guys that are letting ret go dominant for 2 weeks literally untouched ruining pvp. Yep they're doing a great job!
literally every season you have that one dominant spec that "ruins" pvp for past 15 years...
Does Holinka ever feel down that he was close to being called Hotlinker?
preach is probably the best video gamer interviewer, he just gets it, you goto these legacy gaming websites and its just garbage they don't play games
Never before has the question "how gay and uncool can we possibly make dragons?" been answered more completely by man. Truly an accomplishment for the ages.
Oh look at this. A gamer in 2023 still using "gay" as an insult. I thought most of you died or got imprisoned for sexual assault already. Which way are you going?
Im really baffled by some of these comments. I LOVE Evoker. i rerolled from priest (disc/holy) to prevoker and it feels *amazing*.
I like the dracthyr model a lot, they dont feel like your standard mindless dragon only-good-for-standing-guard-at-random-hallway nb. 5279-musclegimp.
They cant be quadrupedal, which makes sense, so the way they are is awesome. also: they are RANGED which was something that I always hated about ne classes this far.
No new ranged spec, only one healer (and fistweaver is melee too :/ ) Damn, we went into Legion with 3 new melee specs and -1 ranged (surv hunter)
It was about damn time range/heal got some love!
Prevoker plays a lot like disc, which I *really* like. But its so much more mobile. the more nimble build of the model sells the caster better (and the quick movement!) - bulky orc mages and tauren priests always looked stupid imo. Or your belf-lady warriors. For the sake of gameplay I would like for dracthyr to eventually get access to more classes. But dont give them the upper body of a tauren and the bum of a draenei,pls?
I think most of the people who dislike evoker don't play healer. Devastation is kinda dull to be honest, Preservation is the better evoker spec by far. I disagree with you about the models, I think they made the faces too expressive and it makes them look kinda goofy imo, but it's personal preference, I get why some people like them, I just prefer dragons to look more draconic.
@@EvilRobotSteve Devastation is kinda nails tbh. Maybe not fir everyone, but it's so satisfying to bend the intended class design and get rewarded massively in return.
@@EvilRobotSteve I only offspec devastation, it seems fine enough for me. Not exactly rocket science, but good enough for open world chenanigans.
And obviously how the models look is preference, but I dont get the extremly diminishing comments of some people. Theres so many dracthyr around, if they were as bad as they spout, noone would play them.
I also really like how expressive their faces are, I wanna play a character, not a pet brick :D
You need to resume taking your pills
And you should not say such things when everyone else was just respectfully sharing their opinions.
would be cool if they weren't straight from deviant art, and if the male version had options to, ya know, look like a dragon not an Iguana, sadge
Evoker, no matter preservation or devastation, is the worst class in game. They feel like a class made with whole bunch of unrelated talents stitched together so they can do cool animations. Hey and let's buff preservation coefficient up so they do ridiculous healing without using mana. Horribly funny talent design.
evoker is the worst thing added to wow since pandarian.
Both of these things are good, tho?
I guess they are fans of SW prequels.. the Dractyrs look like wow JarJar Binks...
how much are you getting payed to chill for blizz?
lol you deadass think they had to pay him
spineless bastard gets invited and smiled at through gritted teeth and it's enough for him
Yeah let's talk about overlapping which, in m+, a mw monk has to deal damage, cc interrupt, heal and avoid stuff, 4 things, at the same time, and when you want to play the ranged version, the clearly brain dead key holder, which ofc is the leade, sees you casting and asks why are you not pure feastwaving and when you tell him that actually currently the ranged spec does more healing with less risk he tells you that you like afk healing even though you are spamming heals here and there to keep people alive, he kicks you and then leaves the key instantly, for an opinion, yes an a wrong one, while we are doing the first boss, when no one has died so far, which we killed without me being in he group because i didn't want to let people die, yes, this happened today, to me.
This is why very few people play mw monks, because it's made to be a very difficult and impractical spec and its damage to healing shtick is really pathetic in terms of throughput especially with all the things the player of a monk character is asked to perform along side basic class things, like healing, even with Sheilun's Gift included (including the new Legacy of Wisdom talent) feastweaving can't exist unless you want to torture yourself to death.
not quite
99% of the time people dont care what healer is doing as long as they are alive
also people dont play monk becouse almost every other healer is simply better, its not becouse of difficulty, that never stopped players from playing meta specs
@@mesmerising4253 "people dont play monk becouse almost every other healer is simply better"
I am saying the same thing but it is also because it's a more difficult player.
@@georgeindestructible i repeat, complexity of the spec never stopped playerbase from playing it if the spec was doing numbers and had good toolkit for the content
currently monk pulls meh numbers and has just ok toolkit, those are the only reasons its not being picked, difficulty doesnt matter
@@mesmerising4253 Agree to disagree then, because most players even at high keys tend to play the easiest to play classes and monk is not one of them, as a monk player i can say that very confidently because i said in my initial comment, any player of the sub spec mw is asked to do too much in the game and that's a fact.
@@georgeindestructible thats not true, best examples would be spriest, sub+outlaw rogue, windwalker and enh shaman
all of those specs are difficult to play but are top picks for damage and utility they bring to the party in both mdi and highest key plays
it's not fun constantly switching aoe and single target talents
Then don't. You clearly aren't good enough to benefit from it anyway.
This troon class single-handedly kept me from buying DF.
Same
We're these the Cosby Suite guys? Or are they after all that?
both well after that. started around the time where many of the suite guys "left?" blizzard
Obviously not.
They actually knew how to make a good game.
So was it a coincidence that the NPC dracthyr all look 10x better than the player models, or was it an intentional choice to remind the player we're worth less?
They don't though, they're just as bad
All NPC Drac'thyr like Emberthal and Sarkareth are literally 1-to-1 compatible with what you can make on character creation screen. Sounds to me like you really just suck at making your character look interesting.
@@SunniestAutumn don't even play c:
@@mojoboingo1744 Well that would explain it. You just don't know what you're talking about in the first place.
@@SunniestAutumn I have eyes.
woop
still waiting for frost and unholy DK to get a propper rework to their talent tree and not play the same as they have been doing sins legion.
the evoker sucks
Evoker rocks!
@@SunniestAutumn is a special needs kid be nice to him
so we can blame them for the abysmal creature that is twink dragons? aight. oh and to finish the title, it should of read " Creating the MISTAKE- Brian Holinka + Graham Berger"
Evokers are fun and cool. If you want bodybuilder dragons or dragon ladies with huge breasts, there are many furry porn sites out there for you.
Holinka has been a brain dead pos for years
I'm surprised they accepted this interview when Evoker is such a freaking disappointment.
Considering that every person who has said this so far has mostly been disappointed that the Drac'thyr don't fill their lizard-fucking fantasies, I don't hold high hopes for you, but I'll ask anyway:
Why don't you like Evoker?
I'd love to have a male and female dragon to play some dumb reason we can't?
Lizards don't have recognizable gender differences in the same ways humans do. I struggle to interpret this in any way other than you wanting lizard tits. For that, I have a gamechanger for you: google furaffinity.
Blizzard has brain dead sissies working there
A temporary fart in the order of things, but no worries it'll right itself soon enough.
I hate the dracthyr. Of course modern blizzard makes dragons lame twinks.
What? What did you want humanoid dragons to look like, bodybuilders? Because you can make your drac'thyr quite bulky as it currently is, if you so choose.
@@SunniestAutumn troll or idiot pick one
'basically we needed to bait in another sweaty group of furries, oh and also like magic and shit...did you buy it yet?!'
Not a fan of this class at all.
Most boring class I've ever played in any MMO ever.
More of Mike's shilling extravaganza let's gooooooooooooooooooo
Hats off to them, they really went for the long term April Fools. I mean they got me; what with sticking with the "We're all really scaly" thing for all this time and with a straight face. Those fake twitter accounts showing the design team was a bunch of furry artists... classic!
So when are they swapping it out for the real class?
it's cool and all what they are talking about and how the megadesighned the new class ...but warlock exists . i cant listen to people seriously if such things coexist in same game . giving 2 classes passive mobility with just pressing space bar twice and warlock having to take 3 talents to use sprint that eats hp ...i really dont want to explain the rest things that are wrong with their desighn...coz really..nobody gives a single fuck
...yikes
"incredible" lmao. Lol even
Somewhat outdated but ok
"Have you ever wondered who is behind all these new talent trees, brand new class"- YES, SO I CAN FIRE THEM. They're awful. the lizard with wings, the warlock, many other classes, all of it, just scorched earth on their career please.
I really hope you've never been outraged about layoffs, because with your attitude you really can't afford to do that.
Lmao no thanks 🤣 Dracthyr just look…ugly. Extremely ugly. I prefer my Au Ra in FFXIV. Plus the dragons in FFXIV break the norm of how dragons are and came to be in an MMO. Hint: they are aliens.
This is the most cringe comment I've read in a while
@@Sero4 WoW is cringe. Everything about it is. It’s a freaking cartoon of a game. But you will say “go play your weeb game!” Well guess what? Anime is better than a poorly animated cartoon game with a forgettable story. At least my character matters in my game, and I can play all classes on one character. Plus my Elezen (elf) is hotter than some cockroach-eyebrow elf that looks like a skank.
@@adamslosslessmusiccollection ah I see, April Fool's
@@Sero4 Lol, sure thing, bud. Go play your furry and scaly game. WoW and Blizzard are suffering so bad financially so that’s why Microsoft is buying them. I rather support a company that cares about its playerbase than pay a company with a history of sex scandals, sexual harassment, unfair treatment to women and minorities, and stealing breast milk.
@Helmut Salvatore a cartoony and ugly AF Orc doesn’t sound appealing at all lol. I can switch to being a Warrior and use a great axe as a weapon while harnessing an inner beast to lay waste to foes. At least when I’m playing as a Paladin right now, my character doesn’t have a battle stance that looks like I’m about to swing a baseball bat and piss my pants in fear at the same time. My character actually poses like Link from The Legend of Zelda.