gah! this guy knows nothing. 1) european armour and japanese armour were about the same weight, the whole myth of plate armour being too heavy to lift came from the renaissance where jousting armour used at tournaments were made as heavy as the horse could carry (to the point that in some cases it was only the front half because that's all that was needed to protect the rider during the game 2) the long nose was to represent japanese demons such as oni and tengu which have long noses as a form of psychological warfare (bit like COD players with their skull face masks) 3) yamabushi monks weren't exactly buddhist (though their do have links to buddhism) what they follow is a path called shugendo, which is a mix of japanese zen buddhism, taoism and shinto (speaking as a shugendo yamabushi myself) and they would often join armies and shohei (warrior monks) in fact the yamabushi were originally the warrior faction of shugendo (shugenja being the normal followers of the system) 4) that iron mesh... is chain mail. (kusari) which wouldn't stop gunshots (even those of the japanese muskets) though the metal plates on top of it would stand a chance against the musket ball. 5) he keeps saying samurai.... the warriors in japan were bushi.... the samurai were a political class (granted in the post sengoku period many of the samurai were promoted from the ranks of the bushi, and bushi families from the segoku jidai period but still they were different groups. there's also the fact that the low ranking bushi were generally ashigaru or peasant infantry) 6) yes after the sengoku jidai japan was larely at peace.... except a few minor facts such as bandits, and what was essentially the edo era equivalent to the yakuza (yep orginised crime exsisted back then) so yes it's very possible that the armour could have seen action
Thank you dude. This guy probably has a degree in that stuff and doesn't know poop. and you probably looked all your facts up on the internet in your free time and knew more than him. I'm not being sarcastic.
@@ordinaryjoe4143 Tested itself actually indirectly debunked what he said, Adam Savage has a whole series on building an armour tailor made for him and in the videos he moves around in them and is quite surprised how easy it is and how he feels almost no weight and can do almost everything in them. There are dozens of real experts debunking here on TH-cam and IRL what that curator says. You even can look up here on TH-cam videos of people doing actual acrobatics moves like cartwheels and saltos in full armour to show how not tin can like they were. And in the whole scientific historical weapons and armour community (the curator should be part of, considering his profession) it is a well nown fact that this whole "tank like" "tin can" talk is a victorian invention to emphasize how much more sophisticated they were. It is an urban legend similar to the "in the medieval times all people thought the earth was a disc" that similarly was invented in the renaissance to show how "stupid" they were in the medieval times and to say "look how sophisticated we are now"
@@lukedelport8231 very easy? No easier than alot of people think? Yes I think what the dude in the video was trying to get at is that it's hard to draw a bow in medieval knight armour which I think is true but honestly I don't know enough about it to argue otherwise
Lawrence Leipold @Lawrence Leipold. No, I don’t think I could. It may not be in all cases, but carrying 100+ or - pounds of restrictive (comparably) Western armor, and maneuvering myself onto 1500 pounds of moving, sometimes skittish animal, would seem to be a little more difficult than with a less restrictive (comparatively) 40+ or - pound Japanese armor, but thank you for your confidence that I would be able to. I look forward to your reply.👍🏽
@@marvinfok65 The funny thing is it is still theoretically capable of being worn. If the armor is very well distributed. It would obviously still be hard but.
I've been doing HEMA and SCA fighting for 6 years. articulated European armor is very light and mobile. An entire suit of field armor (that is, armor for battle) usually weighs between 45 and 55 lbs. (20 to 25 kg), with the helmet weighing between 4 and 8 lbs. (2 to 4 kg)-less than the full equipment of a fireman with oxygen gear, or what most modern soldiers have carried into battle since the nineteenth century. Moreover, while most modern equipment is chiefly suspended from the shoulders or waist, the weight of a well-fitted armor is distributed all over the body. It was not until the seventeenth century that the weight of field armor was greatly increased in order to render it bulletproof against ever more accurate firearms. At the same time, however, full armor became increasingly rare and only vital parts of the body, such as the head, torso, and hands, remained protected by metal plate. Also, the notion that the development of plate armor (completed by about 1420-30) greatly impaired a wearer’s mobility is also untrue. A harness of plate armor was made up of individual elements for each limb. Each element in turn consisted of lames (strips of metal) and plates, linked by movable rivets and leather straps, and thus allowing practically all of the body’s movements without any impairment due to rigidity of material. The widely held view that a man in armor could hardly move, and, once he had fallen to the ground, was unable to rise again, is also without foundation. On the contrary, historical sources tell us of the famous French knight Jean de Maingre (ca. 1366-1421), known as Maréchal Boucicault, who, in full armor, was able to climb up the underside of a ladder using only his hands. Furthermore, there are several illustrations from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance depicting men-at-arms, squires, or knights, all in full armor, mounting horses without help or instruments such as ladders or cranes. Modern experiments with genuine fifteenth- and sixteenth-century armor as well as with accurate copies have shown that even an untrained man in a properly fitted armor can mount and dismount a horse, sit or lie on the ground, get up again, run, and generally move his limbs freely and without discomfort.
+marcuspinson - Paragraphed for easy reading, because there is actual information here, good post Marcus! I've been doing HEMA and SCA fighting for 6 years. articulated European armor is very light and mobile. An entire suit of field armor (that is, armor for battle) usually weighs between 45 and 55 lbs. (20 to 25 kg), with the helmet weighing between 4 and 8 lbs. (2 to 4 kg)-less than the full equipment of a fireman with oxygen gear, or what most modern soldiers have carried into battle since the nineteenth century. Moreover, while most modern equipment is chiefly suspended from the shoulders or waist, the weight of a well-fitted armor is distributed all over the body. It was not until the seventeenth century that the weight of field armor was greatly increased in order to render it bulletproof against ever more accurate firearms. At the same time, however, full armor became increasingly rare and only vital parts of the body, such as the head, torso, and hands, remained protected by metal plate. Also, the notion that the development of plate armor (completed by about 1420-30) greatly impaired a wearer’s mobility is also untrue. A harness of plate armor was made up of individual elements for each limb. Each element in turn consisted of lames (strips of metal) and plates, linked by movable rivets and leather straps, and thus allowing practically all of the body’s movements without any impairment due to rigidity of material. The widely held view that a man in armor could hardly move, and, once he had fallen to the ground, was unable to rise again, is also without foundation. On the contrary, historical sources tell us of the famous French knight Jean de Maingre (ca. 1366-1421), known as Maréchal Boucicault, who, in full armor, was able to climb up the underside of a ladder using only his hands. Furthermore, there are several illustrations from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance depicting men-at-arms, squires, or knights, all in full armor, mounting horses without help or instruments such as ladders or cranes. Modern experiments with genuine fifteenth- and sixteenth-century armor as well as with accurate copies have shown that even an untrained man in a properly fitted armor can mount and dismount a horse, sit or lie on the ground, get up again, run, and generally move his limbs freely and without discomfort.
exactly in fact knight errent and metatron have videos where they compare their armours (european and japanese) they both weigh about the same, the only difference is the japanese armour offers better mobility and awareness, while the european armour offers better protection
coryman125 no no don't tell me let me guess... was it skallagrim??? no wait not his style... i know lindybeige right? ummm... knight errent? no hints I'll get it eventually lol :P
This guy knows nothing about European armours. You can do push ups, sit ups, jumping jacks, sprinting, etc. All that can be done in European armour because it was properly articulated and distributed in weight.
Not to mention Roman Legionaries had to wear full sets of armor (either Lorica Segmentata or Lorica Hamata as it is now classified) all day when out of Rome. Doing daily tasks like building forts, cooking, and walking around in full sets of "European" armor.
You know, everyone is talking about how wrong he is. Don't get me wrong, he is, but there is a larger aspect to this. We all thought plate armor was cool, but cumbersome, right? At least until we learned it's flexible, lightweight, and hardly restrictive. That combined with the fact that plate armor with stop any arrow, sword, axe, or spear.....don't you just want a set of plate armor now? Just to wear around town and have fun?
the so called expert on japanese armor doesn't seem to be much of an expert, he calls that one piece "oh this one looks like a bird" he does not seen to know anything about shinto mythology or he would know that armor was made to resemble a tengu, a mountain spirit of sorts that the yamabushi are in legend supposed to have a special relationship with.
Doesn't know shit about western armour either. The Japanese armour isn't "light" - a set of medieval plate weighs about 40 lb as well, nowhere near the 100lb he quotes.
lancer D Well, tournament armor could get to about 90lbs, though that was because, again, tournament usage, where you could sacrifice mobility for protection. That said, everyone tends to think the best preserved and surviving armor from Europe, tournament armor and display suits, was the norm, as opposed to the exceptions.
It's a little disappointing that the curator there doesn't know much about armour, especially European armour. "Can't get on a horse."? Myth, "100lbs" myth... European suits or armour were extremely advanced, far more so than the much older style Samurai suits.. Later on the Japanese even had Westernised, fully steel versions of their armour made. I would have also expected him to know the names of the pieces of armour- either the Japanese names or the names that we use in English: pauldrons, geaves, sabatons etc However, his Cultural knowledge is impressive and the artistic perspective he brings to the pieces is very welcome..
I found his knowledge to be overall pretty surface level and boring, he had maybe a flashcard's worth of information on each piece, like they just rolled up on the exhibit and asked any museum guide there for info. Compare this video with the wonderful Hollywood Costume Exhibition video.
We're talking general knowledge, not specialised in this case. He was the one who mentioned the incorrect examples: it's a good idea to make sure your examples are correct. ;) As a curator of such an exhibition, you would expect him to know more about the armour he's showing. (typically you'd read up a bit about it). I do like that he appreciates the artistic aspects though. He probably specialises in fine art.
Well Do you know everything there is to know about Mongolian Armour? Or Italian Art? Mr Singer is a Specialist in Japanese Art not Western Warfare. The Myth comes from Jousting where armour had low mobility and could weight up to if not more than 100lbs (45kg) and the rider often needed help getting on their horse. Robert T. Singer has been Curator of Japanese Art at LACMA since 1988. He oversees 14 annual rotating exhibitions of paintings, prints, ceramics, and netsuke in the museum's Pavilion for Japanese Art.
Don't worry he didn't seem to educated with Japanese armor or history ether. "Era of Peace" is laughable when describing the edo period. More like "Era of Violent and Oppressive Dictatorship Under the Tokugawa". Era of no war maybe (if you dismiss the countless mauraders at the time and the war against christians) but "Era of Peace" Edo was not. Also you are right, my suit hardly weighs 100lbs and I'm 6'. Only a few weighed that much and even fewer of those were actually worn.
Pretty much everything the guy says is myth/urban legend. Katanas, by and large, only have the smith's name on the tang. They don't have proof marks like British weapons.
2:49 is a Karasu-tengu. Basically a mythical creature associated with the secrets to martial skill and strategy. They appear in legends such as the one about Ushiwaka-maru (later Minamoto no Yoshitsune) learning his sword skills. Carmen Blacker mentions them in her writings.
The armor of the European medieval plate armor were very flexible. And yes it was heavier than the samurai armor. The medieval knight were able to get on and off a horse with no problem.
Thank you! Also, a hundred pounds is some of the heaviest tournament armor, possibly something for Henry VIII, who was absolutely huge even by modern standards; battlefield armor was considerably lighter. There are videos of modern-day reenactors doing cartwheels, jumping jacks, sprints, and easily climbing on a horse in full plate. These are history enthusiasts, not professionals trained since childhood to fight in that thing. We have records of medieval knights doing things in armor that a regular person cannot do without armor. /rant off
Shut the fuck up every single person has already commented about the curator and honestly what were you fucking expecting. It's two Americans. Not two old Japanese men with subtitles beneath them. It's a shit curation because museums change exhibits continuously.
Not gonna lie, if I was in a battle and the other warrior was wearing an eggplant helmet I would just walk the other way. Chances are: (1) he is a badass and/or (2) he is crazy, and you never play against crazy.
I agree. But I'd be more terrified if the guy wearing the helmet with bong pipes sticking straight out the top was chasing after me. That would be one super crazy mother fucker.
That isn't true at all. A full suit of armor in Europe in the 16th century weighed about 60 pounds and you could most certainly mount a horse in it. Mounting blocks were used because war horses were quite tall normally 16-17 hands tall. The idea that you can't mount a horse in armor is a total myth!
I was so excited about finding this video on TH-cam about an exhibit on Samurai armour that is led by the curator of the exhibit. However, at the 1:45 min -2 min mark most of my confidence in the knowledge of the man was lost when he stated that Western armour was really heavy and cumbersome compared to Samurai armour. In and of itself that statement is relative, but he went on to say that Western knights could not get on a horse and even if they did they could not sit down. Really? REALLY? Come on man! Groan. :(
Fucker doesn't know the sick flips knights could do off of their horses. (Like a single account of a knight doing 3 flips before landing on the ground)
Why build one? I bought one for my suit for $300. It's antique from the Edo and came with a free kikko plate in the bottom. There are quite a few antique ones out there for a fair price and many have not held armor for years so getting one to store armor in (even if it's not 'real') would be giving the box it's purpose back.
It always facinates me the level of arstistry in Japanese armour, and how highly customised it was. I mean, that axe head helmet is amazing! They've got so much style.
1. A full suit of western battlefield plate armor only weighs between 50 and 60 lbs, not 100. 2. Western plate armor is specifically designed not to impair movement, people wearing it can run, jump, climb, get on a horse, ride a horse, jump off a horse, fight, roll, get up, and do pretty much anything they could do without the armor. 4. Properly made western plate armor is much stronger than the Japanese Samurai armor, that's why they used it. If not for the above facts, Western plate armor wouldn't have provided an advantage and people wouldn't have used it in the first place!
The curator on this video should learn a whole lot about European armour. No it doesn't weigh 100 pounds, a full suit of late 15th century gothic or italian plate armour would weigh about 60 pounds, and the wearer would retain almost maximum mobility. And YES, they COULD get on their own horse and off it whenever they needed, without any kind of help. When the Portuguese arrived in Japan in 1543, the first things the japanese copied from them were guns and pieces of armour.
Old comment, but the introduction of firearms predated that of Portugese contact, and plate had already been in use prior. However, western armors introduced the central ridge, which added benefit in allowing a round to glance to the side in comparison to the globose shape they've used.
Wait, are you saying he got Japanese stuff wrong aswell? I'll admit I only know the first bit until his little tangent on western armour but damn. What else did he get wrong?
question for the museum curator: if medieval plate armor was as useless as he claims it is....... then why the shit would so many european armies bother wearing it? These guys were just as pragmatic as any other army in history and they wouldnt have wanted to wear "100 pound tin metal cans" into battle they would have wanted something maneuverable and effective. Common sense doesnt seem to be this man's strongsuit
I'm surprised the "curator" didn't mention that his signature armor headdress was of a beaked demon known as a Karasu Tengu or Crow Demon. This was to imply that the swordsman was taught his skills with a sword by the crow demons at their mountainous retreat. If they caught you on their mountain, they would most likely kill you, unless they found you worthy to be a student. Tengu were supposed to be superb swordsmen. They came in two types: the birdlike Karasu Tengu, and the more humanlike Tengu with the red faces and long noses.
Biased much? Mr. "Curator" If he's going to claim that Japanese armors are so superior, he could at least learn the names of the different pieces. I'm almost certain they don't call that type of chest piece a cuirass. A cuirass is a piece of western armor, which apparently means it's made of solid lead. (sarcasm, obviously)
Yeah, he could have at least called it the “do” Seems like an otaku who did one google search about samurai and still thinks they use katanas 100% of the time
habojspade Except the Tokugawa period started in 1603 when Tokugawa Ieyasu was declared shogun. Then there is the Shimbara Uprising... point is that '200 years of peace' from '1600 to 1850'- he should have just said 1650.
Ehh, no "period of peace" is *entirely* peaceful. The Pax Romana was a long period of peace in Europe and the Middle East that lasted around 200 years. But even during that the Roman army was campaigning the whole time and fighting various "barbarian" tribes like the Germans and smaller wars north of the Black Sea. But this was peaceful compared to the prior two centuries where you had numerous wars in many locations around the mediterranean, often with forces that rivaled the Romans until they eventually built up enough momentum to become the dominant power. I'm going to assume that the Tokugawa/Edo period was similar. There were likely numerous minor conflicts and occasions where Samurai might have had to get involved in here or there, but there was just no knock down dragged out fighting like there was during the Sengoku period where the entire country was basically at war with itself for a hundred years, with rival factions often roughly of equivalent strength and power. I mean, right now, the Western world is essentially in a Pax America of sorts, and there are no major powers fighting each other in massive campaigns, and yet there are still regional wars being fought in places like Syria. But it's a far cry to compare the Syrian civil war with something like World War 1 or 2.
I have been to this museum a few years ago, and I remember this exhibit when it was really sparse and unfinished. I remember the walls were white and the room was relatively unfinished. So cool to see it done now.
I'd like to make a comment of appreciation. The comment section seems to have turned into people bickering and berating, when what this video wanted to was show off some actual pieces of history from a region of the world a lot of westernes only associate with weird quiz shows, hentai and the infamous panty-vending machines, and let us have a look at some of the very intricate craftsmanship that was put into making these suits of armor. Thank you for showing me, in video form, what I would have had to travel thousands of kilometers to witness myself.
The comments on Tested videos are the exact reason why nerds are despised the world over. Arrogant know-it-alls who love to pick apart the work of others over trivialities. Of course these people achieve nothing close to those they tear apart (ie. curating a show on Samurai amour). On another note, Norm asks some more insightful questions to an interesting person, thanks to both of them.
***** I hate it when comments are disabled. Comments are very useful for discussion and digestion of what was just seen. It's very much possible to be civil in the comment section, and a lot of comment sections are fine places to be when they're properly tended by their "owners".
two minutes in and I stopped listening, this man know less about armor than me, and I'm not an history buff. You couldn't mount on a horse alone with a European plate armor ? If he is saying so much myths and tropes about these armor how can I be sure he know anything about Japanese armor.
The fact that he doesn't know the Japanese for any of the elements, and that he conflated 13th century medieval armour with Japanese armour from less than 300 years ago makes me think that this is temporary exhibition and that he has very little knowledge of the subject.
chill out man. If you find things that are wrong, point them out with the corresponding sources. I am not saying that there are no mistakes (the youtube channel Metatron pointed out a couple), but that you have not presented any valid argument
The idea of medieval nights not beeing able to mount their horses on their own is COMPLETE rubbish! You can even do summersaults and push ups in an armor just watch "How to Mount a Horse in Armor and Other Chivalric Problems" on youtube, they describe it in detail!
I love seeing the authentic stuff. brings that whole era to life. I love imagining some samurai general wearing a full suit of this stuff, sitting at the rear of the battlefield watching his carefully planned strategy play out in front of him. hard to imagine a figure that could command more respect
last time i checked, European articulated plate Armour was only like 60 lbs...........and offer on par if not better protection, but they where used in different fighting styles, thus they cannot be compared fairly, but if i HAD to wager a bed on Knight V.S. Samurai (based on equipment alone (weapons and Armour)) i would go with the knight, but there is no way to judge it fairly they both are good in their own context and where used with different styles of fighting, thus again they cannon't be compared fairly.
For a maker channel you didn't go into the process of making the armor too much. It is quite an interesting and elaborate process. Also: If you make a 5 hour video on those swords with detail shots, I will watch every second.
This curator knows nothing about western armor possibly he's even bsing on the armor in the video idk much about Japanese armor it's hard to find good reliable information and not the idiots who think that the Katana is best cause of what the seen in their anime
yeah he had no idea what he was talking about. in plate armor you can do somersaults and swim short distances. he was like 50 pounds off on the weight as well
1. armored shoes weren't a thing 2. Samurai armor is not that light and knight armor is not that heavy. Samurai armor is on average 60 pounds knight armor around 80. 3. You CAN get on a horse in both types of armor
But you'll still believe him if he tells you that Samurai armor apparently was musket ball proof and Knights have the mobility of a brick wall and when they fall over, cant't get up?
Ever since Shogun 2, and Ghost of Tsushima, I've become alot more interested in Japanese culture and heritage, i'm from the west and find the concept of the Samurai Fascinating.
I was there! Amazing exhibit, bought the catalogue. Really rare for such an extensive collection like this to even exist, let alone be exhibited for public viewing. Too bad it's closed now. :(
not exactly. You can get a Bachelors of Art in Computer Science. That doesn't make it an Art degree, it just means you don't take as much math or science classes as a Bachelors of Science. This guy focuses on the history of art, not the history of war or of the far east. A huge portion of the information he put out is incorrect.
Jesus. This man just spouts what ever comes to mind? I feel like a child was trying to explain to me what another grown up tried to teach them, only to fail.
Even though I like this movie the curator irritates me beyond measure. I'd half expect someone who is in that position should know a thing of two about western armor. Calling them "tin cans" is degrading and factualy incorrect. Now, Japanese swords and armor are often given untrue properties by people who get their facts from movies and anime. That sort of fanboy behavior is unfit for someone who hosts such a big exposition. Shame on him. Thumbs up for tested though, looks very interesting.
I understand the desire to appreciate the achievements of other cultures, but you don't have to do it by falsely denigrating our own cultural heritage. Nearly everything the curator said about Western equipment was false. European armor, weaponry, and metallurgy were objectively superior to Japanese stuff. That doesn't mean the Japanese craftsmen were inferior, they did the best with the technology and materials they had and achieved remarkable things.
Two things can be true at the same time: 1. Japanese weapons and armor technology and craftsmanship was incredible. 2. European armor technology and craftsmanship was overall superior. Both of these things are true, and both are worth celebrating.
+Alexandros grivas swords were very much seen in battle but most of the soldiers were not Samurai and we're usually using other more long range weapons
xXdinorabbitXx's channel have you seen the star war movie why the empire side armor is useless against regular spears, arrows and laser blasters. See thous guy dead on the floor thous white troopers. Yea some how they die from thous when their armor meant deflect laser blasters still and yet they still die in the movie. So making my point that I've have to edit. The armors only great against arrows, and melee weapons because they can absourbed it. When it comes to guns, they didn't wore tradtional armor, they have special armor plate came from the west more that is Europ country. That they got the idea of using conner plate like the knights do to deflect bullets for sure. They tested on their armor and the knight's armor why bulky is better deflecting bullets then samurai. Then they stole the idea using like knight's bodyplate.
+Louie “InfintyZero” Macorncan well if you actually use legends sources instead of movie depictions, you will then learn that stormtrooper armor is actually good armor(the plastoid composute part of the armor). the material was good enough to where it was used in darth vaders armor. you know your armors good if its from the same material as vaders armor. aside from point, youre saying no armor is better than not so substantial armor, especially when its all you can work with? k
xXdinorabbitXx's channel I was talking about the 1st starwar movie, I have re-edit my last comment about where they replace part their armor to be bullet proof. So pretty much as I am saying why I refering 1st starwar was really their armor was a joke for hollywood that how I described for samurai armor.
Many people are mad at how the curator got the weight of the European armour wrong, but it is easy to get the jousting/tournament (which does in-fact weigh 100 lb) mixed up with the battle armour (which as stated in almost every comment), is a lot lighter
The Shire horse of today is a direct descendant of English war horses of the 16th century. Shires get up to 18 hands on a very regular basis. You can't mount an 18 hand horse from the ground with or without armor on. Japanes armor is very inferior to European armor of the same time frame! A Japanese katana wouldn't make more than a dent in European armor, which is why European weapons became larger and more oriented for blunt force trauma. A Damascus blade doesn't make a sword magical or more able to penetrate armor, it just makes it stronger. The katana is a very lightweight sword not intended at penitrating forged steel armor. A katana would have a hard time penetrating chain mail let alone plate forged armor.
Of course a katana wouldn't make more than a dent in European armour. It wouldn't make more than a dent in Japanese armour, either. That's what armour is for, after all. Likewise, a knightly sword - whether one or two handed - would not make more than a dent in either European or Japanese armour - they were not designed for armour penetration. Some longswords, in later periods, were made to be dedicated thrusters and could potentially penetrate maille, but even these swords were not optimal for the task. It was more that they could penetrate maille (barely) if they really had to.
This video is a huge lesson for how we are perceived with professionalism, authority, and what people take away from an authoritative message when there is known falseness in it. Please leave this video up and comments enabled as a monument.
Fully agree that curator is a complete ass-hat. All the functional technicality aside, other reason these armours were so aesthetically expressive was due to the fact that soldiers were going to their potentially last battle and they rather die looking good. As well as a failure in combat, especially of those in command, was a suicide to honour the shame. Correct me if im wrong. Also, choices of expression on armour, were clan related, ''honour medal'' like decorations, rank indicators, face masks were more of a persons fighting ''spirit'' expression. Correct me if im wrong.
+NerdRagerGaming or he does, and he didn't want to sound like a pretentious dipshit academic so he's just explaining it for an audience that knows absolutely nothing.
such horrible information regarding western armor. complete lies. I get so sick of hearing "professionals" talk about how heavy and clunky western armor was. WESTERN ARMOR IS NOT HEAVY. My gosh, learn about what you're talking about and stop spreading false information.
This curator Robert Singer is painting european western armor as inferior to japanese armor when it was quite the opposite. Must be his tribes instincts to do this
He really got angry when norm said that adam has a samurai armour at home(before norm told him that it was a movie prop) ; that's how you know that a man is passionate about a subject.
+Sen Flores mostly because , well its annoying that people who are experts of japanese warfare and i and a lot of people are tired of people like stephan turnbull and this guy constantly parroting the old myths about european stuff that is the reason why nitwits online think that the samurai is this godlike fighter and the european is this lumbering brute... no , i wouldnt expect them to be total exoperts in western armour like tobias capwell or matt easton is... however... i would expect theyd have some education on european arm0our, im sure this museum has hosted european armour before. this guy seems more an expert on fine art and culture, not armour, so perhaps instead he should simply refrain from commenting on what he doesnt know about
***** lol I'm just laughing because of all the internet-experts in the comment section of a TH-cam video. I know the video is biased as hell lol and I'm aware that I don't know everything, however, I don't pretend to. Unlike others, and that's what I find funny.
What an extraordinary bullshit-talk about european arms and armour :D Haha aaaaah this hurts ! Still hearing this in museums even is pretty downing. I *CAN* mount a horse in armour. And im no expert horseman or armour-bearer at all. :D haha reciting a victorian theatrical play in saying, knights couldnt mount a horse in armour is a disgrace. *torn between loughing and pain* xD Well at least he talks highly (and rightly so) about the japanese armour :)
i love samurai armor. i have 3. i have videos of me riding horseback in the mountains in oregon in my samurai armor. archery in full armor etc etc. training in the mountains. i love samurai yoroi.
That wasn't Tadakatsu Honda's Helmet was it? He's the only Samurai I know of that had deer antlers on his helmet, if it was then why the hell didn't they talk about it? He was one of the most incredible samurai in history.
Best video I've seen from tested so far. Good interviewing technique from Norm too. He's come a long way from the early days - asking good questions too. Very interesting viewing :)
Myth of european armour being heavy: It really varied. Light european armour may be heavier than a Japanese peasant infantry soldier's armour, for example. But an O-Yoroi is much heavier than that. And also you can definitely move pretty normally in european armor.
Glad I'm not the only one in here to complain about his comment on European armor. Well fitted armor is extremely flexible and the weights ranged a lot depending on how thick the pieces are. Good armor would have about 80 to 90 percent of the normal mobility. Knights could easily get on horses by themselves and you can watch footage on here of someone in full plate that got knocked off his horse and was able to climb back on after being dragged by his boot on the ground. There's also a video of a man in full armor doing everyday exercises to show how they trained to get used to the weight of their armor including hiking and running and using a climbing wall. Hell I've driven a car in my armor once (A buckle got stuck so I couldn't take it off until I got home)
Does Adam Savage have a samurai costume? Why yes. Yes, he does: th-cam.com/video/yxzkk_9Jvb4/w-d-xo.html
This video is full of misinformation
gah! this guy knows nothing.
1) european armour and japanese armour were about the same weight, the whole myth of plate armour being too heavy to lift came from the renaissance where jousting armour used at tournaments were made as heavy as the horse could carry (to the point that in some cases it was only the front half because that's all that was needed to protect the rider during the game
2) the long nose was to represent japanese demons such as oni and tengu which have long noses as a form of psychological warfare (bit like COD players with their skull face masks)
3) yamabushi monks weren't exactly buddhist (though their do have links to buddhism) what they follow is a path called shugendo, which is a mix of japanese zen buddhism, taoism and shinto (speaking as a shugendo yamabushi myself) and they would often join armies and shohei (warrior monks) in fact the yamabushi were originally the warrior faction of shugendo (shugenja being the normal followers of the system)
4) that iron mesh... is chain mail. (kusari) which wouldn't stop gunshots (even those of the japanese muskets) though the metal plates on top of it would stand a chance against the musket ball.
5) he keeps saying samurai.... the warriors in japan were bushi.... the samurai were a political class (granted in the post sengoku period many of the samurai were promoted from the ranks of the bushi, and bushi families from the segoku jidai period but still they were different groups. there's also the fact that the low ranking bushi were generally ashigaru or peasant infantry)
6) yes after the sengoku jidai japan was larely at peace.... except a few minor facts such as bandits, and what was essentially the edo era equivalent to the yakuza (yep orginised crime exsisted back then) so yes it's very possible that the armour could have seen action
Oni never had long noses
Thank you dude. This guy probably has a degree in that stuff and doesn't know poop. and you probably looked all your facts up on the internet in your free time and knew more than him.
I'm not being sarcastic.
@@ordinaryjoe4143 Tested itself actually indirectly debunked what he said, Adam Savage has a whole series on building an armour tailor made for him and in the videos he moves around in them and is quite surprised how easy it is and how he feels almost no weight and can do almost everything in them. There are dozens of real experts debunking here on TH-cam and IRL what that curator says. You even can look up here on TH-cam videos of people doing actual acrobatics moves like cartwheels and saltos in full armour to show how not tin can like they were.
And in the whole scientific historical weapons and armour community (the curator should be part of, considering his profession) it is a well nown fact that this whole "tank like" "tin can" talk is a victorian invention to emphasize how much more sophisticated they were. It is an urban legend similar to the "in the medieval times all people thought the earth was a disc" that similarly was invented in the renaissance to show how "stupid" they were in the medieval times and to say "look how sophisticated we are now"
Emperor shirakawa view samurai not same as a noble warrior, he disgusted when they come back from war and enter the city with blood and smell of it
No they don’t, the armor of the samurai are more mobility compared to european knights armor
"you cant get on a horse, you cant sit down [in european armor]" - A guy who should not be working on a museum
Yes medieval armor was very easy to move in
@@lukedelport8231 very easy? No easier than alot of people think? Yes I think what the dude in the video was trying to get at is that it's hard to draw a bow in medieval knight armour which I think is true but honestly I don't know enough about it to argue otherwise
He didn’t clarify “alone” or “without assistance”.
@@ICTPerformance268You can get on a horse in european armor alone and without any assistance.
Lawrence Leipold
@Lawrence Leipold. No, I don’t think I could. It may not be in all cases, but carrying 100+ or - pounds of restrictive (comparably) Western armor, and maneuvering myself onto 1500 pounds of moving, sometimes skittish animal, would seem to be a little more difficult than with a less restrictive (comparatively) 40+ or - pound Japanese armor, but thank you for your confidence that I would be able to. I look forward to your reply.👍🏽
European armor is around 50-60 pounds.
Don't just make up a number.
Yes even 33 pound full plate armor has been found
TRUE!!!
A hundred pounds is crazy! Who can walk in a hundred pounds armour?
@@marvinfok65 Jousting armor?
@@marvinfok65 The funny thing is it is still theoretically capable of being worn. If the armor is very well distributed. It would obviously still be hard but.
I've been doing HEMA and SCA fighting for 6 years. articulated European armor is very light and mobile. An entire suit of field armor (that is, armor for battle) usually weighs between 45 and 55 lbs. (20 to 25 kg), with the helmet weighing between 4 and 8 lbs. (2 to 4 kg)-less than the full equipment of a fireman with oxygen gear, or what most modern soldiers have carried into battle since the nineteenth century. Moreover, while most modern equipment is chiefly suspended from the shoulders or waist, the weight of a well-fitted armor is distributed all over the body. It was not until the seventeenth century that the weight of field armor was greatly increased in order to render it bulletproof against ever more accurate firearms. At the same time, however, full armor became increasingly rare and only vital parts of the body, such as the head, torso, and hands, remained protected by metal plate. Also, the notion that the development of plate armor (completed by about 1420-30) greatly impaired a wearer’s mobility is also untrue. A harness of plate armor was made up of individual elements for each limb. Each element in turn consisted of lames (strips of metal) and plates, linked by movable rivets and leather straps, and thus allowing practically all of the body’s movements without any impairment due to rigidity of material. The widely held view that a man in armor could hardly move, and, once he had fallen to the ground, was unable to rise again, is also without foundation. On the contrary, historical sources tell us of the famous French knight Jean de Maingre (ca. 1366-1421), known as Maréchal Boucicault, who, in full armor, was able to climb up the underside of a ladder using only his hands. Furthermore, there are several illustrations from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance depicting men-at-arms, squires, or knights, all in full armor, mounting horses without help or instruments such as ladders or cranes. Modern experiments with genuine fifteenth- and sixteenth-century armor as well as with accurate copies have shown that even an untrained man in a properly fitted armor can mount and dismount a horse, sit or lie on the ground, get up again, run, and generally move his limbs freely and without discomfort.
+marcuspinson - Paragraphed for easy reading, because there is actual information here, good post Marcus!
I've been doing HEMA and SCA fighting for 6 years. articulated European armor is very light and mobile. An entire suit of field armor (that is, armor for battle) usually weighs between 45 and 55 lbs. (20 to 25 kg), with the helmet weighing between 4 and 8 lbs. (2 to 4 kg)-less than the full equipment of a fireman with oxygen gear, or what most modern soldiers have carried into battle since the nineteenth century.
Moreover, while most modern equipment is chiefly suspended from the shoulders or waist, the weight of a well-fitted armor is distributed all over the body. It was not until the seventeenth century that the weight of field armor was greatly increased in order to render it bulletproof against ever more accurate firearms. At the same time, however, full armor became increasingly rare and only vital parts of the body, such as the head, torso, and hands, remained protected by metal plate.
Also, the notion that the development of plate armor (completed by about 1420-30) greatly impaired a wearer’s mobility is also untrue. A harness of plate armor was made up of individual elements for each limb. Each element in turn consisted of lames (strips of metal) and plates, linked by movable rivets and leather straps, and thus allowing practically all of the body’s movements without any impairment due to rigidity of material. The widely held view that a man in armor could hardly move, and, once he had fallen to the ground, was unable to rise again, is also without foundation.
On the contrary, historical sources tell us of the famous French knight Jean de Maingre (ca. 1366-1421), known as Maréchal Boucicault, who, in full armor, was able to climb up the underside of a ladder using only his hands. Furthermore, there are several illustrations from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance depicting men-at-arms, squires, or knights, all in full armor, mounting horses without help or instruments such as ladders or cranes. Modern experiments with genuine fifteenth- and sixteenth-century armor as well as with accurate copies have shown that even an untrained man in a properly fitted armor can mount and dismount a horse, sit or lie on the ground, get up again, run, and generally move his limbs freely and without discomfort.
exactly in fact knight errent and metatron have videos where they compare their armours (european and japanese)
they both weigh about the same, the only difference is the japanese armour offers better mobility and awareness, while the european armour offers better protection
Speaking of Metatron, guess who made a debunking video!
coryman125
no no don't tell me let me guess... was it skallagrim??? no wait not his style... i know lindybeige right? ummm... knight errent? no hints I'll get it eventually lol :P
History channel, cbs, nova, a few others...... hell even discovery kids.
After this Curator spoke, about European Armour, his credibility droped like the French Nobility at Agincourt ... /Facepalm
No it dropped harder than that. They dropped like my grades at the end of finals.
ARMOR*******************************
This guy knows nothing about European armours. You can do push ups, sit ups, jumping jacks, sprinting, etc. All that can be done in European armour because it was properly articulated and distributed in weight.
Not to mention Roman Legionaries had to wear full sets of armor (either Lorica Segmentata or Lorica Hamata as it is now classified) all day when out of Rome. Doing daily tasks like building forts, cooking, and walking around in full sets of "European" armor.
You know, everyone is talking about how wrong he is. Don't get me wrong, he is, but there is a larger aspect to this. We all thought plate armor was cool, but cumbersome, right? At least until we learned it's flexible, lightweight, and hardly restrictive. That combined with the fact that plate armor with stop any arrow, sword, axe, or spear.....don't you just want a set of plate armor now? Just to wear around town and have fun?
armor*** and no one cares
the so called expert on japanese armor doesn't seem to be much of an expert, he calls that one piece "oh this one looks like a bird" he does not seen to know anything about shinto mythology or he would know that armor was made to resemble a tengu, a mountain spirit of sorts that the yamabushi are in legend supposed to have a special relationship with.
Thank you!
Maybe he tried to simplify it for us to better understand.
Doesn't know shit about western armour either. The Japanese armour isn't "light" - a set of medieval plate weighs about 40 lb as well, nowhere near the 100lb he quotes.
lancer D Well, tournament armor could get to about 90lbs, though that was because, again, tournament usage, where you could sacrifice mobility for protection. That said, everyone tends to think the best preserved and surviving armor from Europe, tournament armor and display suits, was the norm, as opposed to the exceptions.
Arctic Gator he probably didnt want to make things too complicated for the viewers
It's a little disappointing that the curator there doesn't know much about armour, especially European armour.
"Can't get on a horse."? Myth, "100lbs" myth... European suits or armour were extremely advanced, far more so than the much older style Samurai suits.. Later on the Japanese even had Westernised, fully steel versions of their armour made.
I would have also expected him to know the names of the pieces of armour- either the Japanese names or the names that we use in English: pauldrons, geaves, sabatons etc
However, his Cultural knowledge is impressive and the artistic perspective he brings to the pieces is very welcome..
I found his knowledge to be overall pretty surface level and boring, he had maybe a flashcard's worth of information on each piece, like they just rolled up on the exhibit and asked any museum guide there for info. Compare this video with the wonderful Hollywood Costume Exhibition video.
We're talking general knowledge, not specialised in this case. He was the one who mentioned the incorrect examples: it's a good idea to make sure your examples are correct. ;)
As a curator of such an exhibition, you would expect him to know more about the armour he's showing. (typically you'd read up a bit about it).
I do like that he appreciates the artistic aspects though. He probably specialises in fine art.
Well Do you know everything there is to know about Mongolian Armour? Or Italian Art? Mr Singer is a Specialist in Japanese Art not Western Warfare.
The Myth comes from Jousting where armour had low mobility and could weight up to if not more than 100lbs (45kg) and the rider often needed help getting on their horse.
Robert T. Singer has been Curator of Japanese Art at LACMA since 1988. He oversees 14 annual rotating exhibitions of paintings, prints, ceramics, and netsuke in the museum's Pavilion for Japanese Art.
Don't worry he didn't seem to educated with Japanese armor or history ether. "Era of Peace" is laughable when describing the edo period. More like "Era of Violent and Oppressive Dictatorship Under the Tokugawa". Era of no war maybe (if you dismiss the countless mauraders at the time and the war against christians) but "Era of Peace" Edo was not.
Also you are right, my suit hardly weighs 100lbs and I'm 6'. Only a few weighed that much and even fewer of those were actually worn.
Pretty much everything the guy says is myth/urban legend. Katanas, by and large, only have the smith's name on the tang. They don't have proof marks like British weapons.
"you cant get on a horse you cant sit...." wtf.... I can jump, roll or even get up if you fall.... its still flexible...
My nigga 9:51
Funny what passes for a curator these days.....
I hear you.....Its who you know,,not what you know in these days i guess..
2:49 is a Karasu-tengu.
Basically a mythical creature associated with the secrets to martial skill and strategy.
They appear in legends such as the one about Ushiwaka-maru (later Minamoto no Yoshitsune) learning his sword skills. Carmen Blacker mentions them in her writings.
yeah, I think he is confusing battle armor with jousting armor.
The armor of the European medieval plate armor were very flexible. And yes it was heavier than the samurai armor. The medieval knight were able to get on and off a horse with no problem.
Thank you! Also, a hundred pounds is some of the heaviest tournament armor, possibly something for Henry VIII, who was absolutely huge even by modern standards; battlefield armor was considerably lighter.
There are videos of modern-day reenactors doing cartwheels, jumping jacks, sprints, and easily climbing on a horse in full plate. These are history enthusiasts, not professionals trained since childhood to fight in that thing. We have records of medieval knights doing things in armor that a regular person cannot do without armor.
/rant off
Beautiful pieces! Lazy curation!
Shut the fuck up every single person has already commented about the curator and honestly what were you fucking expecting. It's two Americans. Not two old Japanese men with subtitles beneath them. It's a shit curation because museums change exhibits continuously.
Woah there.
Yes that musium has beutiful samurai armour
@@zyourzgrandzmaz lmao the salt is so thicc here I thought I was in Utah for a second.
@@zyourzgrandzmaz ahhh a weeb
Not gonna lie, if I was in a battle and the other warrior was wearing an eggplant helmet I would just walk the other way.
Chances are: (1) he is a badass and/or (2) he is crazy, and you never play against crazy.
I agree. But I'd be more terrified if the guy wearing the helmet with bong pipes sticking straight out the top was chasing after me. That would be one super crazy mother fucker.
jimmyf1312 No he would just be stoned, ... just offer him a joint ...friends forever :)
Kermit man, you're fucking hilarious and knowledgeable at the same time. I wish 1% of youtubers have those quality. :-)))
A TH-camr? Am I one? I don't think I have videos on my channel. Either way thanks for the warm compliment.
The Metatron has spread its wings!
That isn't true at all. A full suit of armor in Europe in the 16th century weighed about 60 pounds and you could most certainly mount a horse in it. Mounting blocks were used because war horses were quite tall normally 16-17 hands tall. The idea that you can't mount a horse in armor is a total myth!
I was so excited about finding this video on TH-cam about an exhibit on Samurai armour that is led by the curator of the exhibit. However, at the 1:45 min -2 min mark most of my confidence in the knowledge of the man was lost when he stated that Western armour was really heavy and cumbersome compared to Samurai armour. In and of itself that statement is relative, but he went on to say that Western knights could not get on a horse and even if they did they could not sit down.
Really? REALLY? Come on man! Groan. :(
Fucker doesn't know the sick flips knights could do off of their horses. (Like a single account of a knight doing 3 flips before landing on the ground)
That's... intense.
Adam should build a box for his samurai armor! (Thumbs up)
Yeah that's a nice idea
Was thinking the same thing. XD
Like the comment and reply so they can see!
That is if you want them to make it
Why build one? I bought one for my suit for $300. It's antique from the Edo and came with a free kikko plate in the bottom.
There are quite a few antique ones out there for a fair price and many have not held armor for years so getting one to store armor in (even if it's not 'real') would be giving the box it's purpose back.
It always facinates me the level of arstistry in Japanese armour, and how highly customised it was. I mean, that axe head helmet is amazing! They've got so much style.
1. A full suit of western battlefield plate armor only weighs between 50 and 60 lbs, not 100.
2. Western plate armor is specifically designed not to impair movement, people wearing it can run, jump, climb, get on a horse, ride a horse, jump off a horse, fight, roll, get up, and do pretty much anything they could do without the armor.
4. Properly made western plate armor is much stronger than the Japanese Samurai armor, that's why they used it.
If not for the above facts, Western plate armor wouldn't have provided an advantage and people wouldn't have used it in the first place!
The curator on this video should learn a whole lot about European armour. No it doesn't weigh 100 pounds, a full suit of late 15th century gothic or italian plate armour would weigh about 60 pounds, and the wearer would retain almost maximum mobility. And YES, they COULD get on their own horse and off it whenever they needed, without any kind of help. When the Portuguese arrived in Japan in 1543, the first things the japanese copied from them were guns and pieces of armour.
SHUT THE FUCK UP
@@zyourzgrandzmaz no you
Oh hello from the future BTW
Old comment, but the introduction of firearms predated that of Portugese contact, and plate had already been in use prior. However, western armors introduced the central ridge, which added benefit in allowing a round to glance to the side in comparison to the globose shape they've used.
100 pounds? That guy has the wrong job.
his scale broke cause he weighs too much
He teaches Japanese armour so I have to disagree. It's just western armour is not his expertise.
Flynn Tom ....hes BS...spewing it right and left
Wait, are you saying he got Japanese stuff wrong aswell? I'll admit I only know the first bit until his little tangent on western armour but damn. What else did he get wrong?
Flynn Tom ....watch Metetrons debunked video on this video....hell explain it
question for the museum curator: if medieval plate armor was as useless as he claims it is....... then why the shit would so many european armies bother wearing it? These guys were just as pragmatic as any other army in history and they wouldnt have wanted to wear "100 pound tin metal cans" into battle they would have wanted something maneuverable and effective. Common sense doesnt seem to be this man's strongsuit
He's just trying to make the exhibit seem sexier to raise interest and possibly money for his own job security. IMO
I'm surprised the "curator" didn't mention that his signature armor headdress was of a beaked demon known as a Karasu Tengu or Crow Demon. This was to imply that the swordsman was taught his skills with a sword by the crow demons at their mountainous retreat. If they caught you on their mountain, they would most likely kill you, unless they found you worthy to be a student. Tengu were supposed to be superb swordsmen. They came in two types: the birdlike Karasu Tengu, and the more humanlike Tengu with the red faces and long noses.
Thank god someone here knew this. I got so annoyed with that "curator" when he said it's just a bird with a yamabushi hat.
He says someone in plate armour can't ride a horse, does he know what a knight is?
Biased much? Mr. "Curator"
If he's going to claim that Japanese armors are so superior, he could at least learn the names of the different pieces. I'm almost certain they don't call that type of chest piece a cuirass. A cuirass is a piece of western armor, which apparently means it's made of solid lead. (sarcasm, obviously)
He just used more familiar terminology that was still accurate in a basic sense.
Yeah, he could have at least called it the “do”
Seems like an otaku who did one google search about samurai and still thinks they use katanas 100% of the time
This is where we learn that the curator knows sod all about european armour.
I bet Miyamoto Musashi and the other samurai fighting at Osaka Castle in 1614-1615 would be astonished to learn it was a period of peace.
JKC40 He's referring to the Tokugawa era which came right after that.
habojspade Except the Tokugawa period started in 1603 when Tokugawa Ieyasu was declared shogun. Then there is the Shimbara Uprising... point is that '200 years of peace' from '1600 to 1850'- he should have just said 1650.
JKC40 22 years of peace from Osaka to Shimabara, 230 years of peace from Shimabara until the Onin war.
Ehh, no "period of peace" is *entirely* peaceful. The Pax Romana was a long period of peace in Europe and the Middle East that lasted around 200 years. But even during that the Roman army was campaigning the whole time and fighting various "barbarian" tribes like the Germans and smaller wars north of the Black Sea. But this was peaceful compared to the prior two centuries where you had numerous wars in many locations around the mediterranean, often with forces that rivaled the Romans until they eventually built up enough momentum to become the dominant power.
I'm going to assume that the Tokugawa/Edo period was similar. There were likely numerous minor conflicts and occasions where Samurai might have had to get involved in here or there, but there was just no knock down dragged out fighting like there was during the Sengoku period where the entire country was basically at war with itself for a hundred years, with rival factions often roughly of equivalent strength and power.
I mean, right now, the Western world is essentially in a Pax America of sorts, and there are no major powers fighting each other in massive campaigns, and yet there are still regional wars being fought in places like Syria. But it's a far cry to compare the Syrian civil war with something like World War 1 or 2.
I have been to this museum a few years ago, and I remember this exhibit when it was really sparse and unfinished. I remember the walls were white and the room was relatively unfinished. So cool to see it done now.
I'd like to make a comment of appreciation. The comment section seems to have turned into people bickering and berating, when what this video wanted to was show off some actual pieces of history from a region of the world a lot of westernes only associate with weird quiz shows, hentai and the infamous panty-vending machines, and let us have a look at some of the very intricate craftsmanship that was put into making these suits of armor.
Thank you for showing me, in video form, what I would have had to travel thousands of kilometers to witness myself.
The comments on Tested videos are the exact reason why nerds are despised the world over. Arrogant know-it-alls who love to pick apart the work of others over trivialities. Of course these people achieve nothing close to those they tear apart (ie. curating a show on Samurai amour).
On another note, Norm asks some more insightful questions to an interesting person, thanks to both of them.
phatfish001 Tends to be far better on Tested's own site; it's on TH-cam where the analism happens, to the surprise of no-one.
phatfish001 Indeed. I would think that maybe they should just disable the comment section if people are going to act this way
***** I hate it when comments are disabled. Comments are very useful for discussion and digestion of what was just seen. It's very much possible to be civil in the comment section, and a lot of comment sections are fine places to be when they're properly tended by their "owners".
McJaews agreed.
two minutes in and I stopped listening, this man know less about armor than me, and I'm not an history buff.
You couldn't mount on a horse alone with a European plate armor ? If he is saying so much myths and tropes about these armor how can I be sure he know anything about Japanese armor.
TheKodiak72 You're nothing more than a clown.
The fact that he doesn't know the Japanese for any of the elements, and that he conflated 13th century medieval armour with Japanese armour from less than 300 years ago makes me think that this is temporary exhibition and that he has very little knowledge of the subject.
仰る通り。彼の知識は浅く、時代によって変わる様々な要素を含めた説明ができていません。
just delete this video. it is so wrong i can't even start expressing how bad is it.
chill out man. If you find things that are wrong, point them out with the corresponding sources. I am not saying that there are no mistakes (the youtube channel Metatron pointed out a couple), but that you have not presented any valid argument
+Juan
Everybody else already pointed out the massive flaws, there's no need to restate it. Stop trying to defend this bullshit video.
Guys its just one sentence who cares
The idea of medieval nights not beeing able to mount their horses on their own is COMPLETE rubbish!
You can even do summersaults and push ups in an armor just watch "How to Mount a Horse in Armor and Other Chivalric Problems" on youtube, they describe it in detail!
I love seeing the authentic stuff.
brings that whole era to life.
I love imagining some samurai general wearing a full suit of this stuff, sitting at the rear of the battlefield watching his carefully planned strategy play out in front of him.
hard to imagine a figure that could command more respect
Well imagine the similarities between a samurai general leading his troops and a Knight commanding his Man at Arms while wearing full plate armor.
"You can't sit down on a horse in western armour" that is some BUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!
very disappointed that he talks about European armor while clearly not knowing anything about it...
私たちの祖先が作った戦闘品であるとともに魂のこもった芸術品。いくつものドラマがあった戦国時代。涙が出てきました。
last time i checked, European articulated plate Armour was only like 60 lbs...........and offer on par if not better protection, but they where used in different fighting styles, thus they cannot be compared fairly, but if i HAD to wager a bed on Knight V.S. Samurai (based on equipment alone (weapons and Armour)) i would go with the knight, but there is no way to judge it fairly they both are good in their own context and where used with different styles of fighting, thus again they cannon't be compared fairly.
Those armors must have been more colorful and beautiful when they were made.
"...whereas a western armor would weigh like 100 pounds(45kg)"
*Deus vult intensifies*
For a maker channel you didn't go into the process of making the armor too much. It is quite an interesting and elaborate process.
Also: If you make a 5 hour video on those swords with detail shots, I will watch every second.
This curator knows nothing about western armor possibly he's even bsing on the armor in the video idk much about Japanese armor it's hard to find good reliable information and not the idiots who think that the Katana is best cause of what the seen in their anime
*they
you're a bit...TRIGGERED
yeah he had no idea what he was talking about. in plate armor you can do somersaults and swim short distances. he was like 50 pounds off on the weight as well
Alex Sitaras thats for the average modern person- knoghts back in the day would have been able to top that easily
The Aussie Boy of course, knights were professionals, a lot of the people doing the demonstrations were dorks with shiny toys
We still wear this in Japan. It's a living art.
Really.
1. armored shoes weren't a thing 2. Samurai armor is not that light and knight armor is not that heavy. Samurai armor is on average 60 pounds knight armor around 80. 3. You CAN get on a horse in both types of armor
+Baby Inuyasha Any more interesting facts sourced form anime?
Its not from anime, watch Skalligram
I'd trust a museum curator who has period armor over a neckbeard who busy replicas from ebay.
But you'll still believe him if he tells you that Samurai armor apparently was musket ball proof and Knights have the mobility of a brick wall and when they fall over, cant't get up?
Yoshiki Kishinuma Armored shoes weren't a thing for the samurai. They wore a woven sandal made from straw. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waraji
They should give those back to Japan! (Unless they're on lease from Japan)
That's what they always say to The British Museum.
Ever since Shogun 2, and Ghost of Tsushima, I've become alot more interested in Japanese culture and heritage, i'm from the west and find the concept of the Samurai Fascinating.
I was there! Amazing exhibit, bought the catalogue. Really rare for such an extensive collection like this to even exist, let alone be exhibited for public viewing. Too bad it's closed now. :(
And this is what happens when you have a art major talk about history.... seriously, it's like a trove of misinformation.....
Dont you major in History with an art degree?
not exactly. You can get a Bachelors of Art in Computer Science. That doesn't make it an Art degree, it just means you don't take as much math or science classes as a Bachelors of Science. This guy focuses on the history of art, not the history of war or of the far east. A huge portion of the information he put out is incorrect.
BIZKIT Then please enlighten us.
Jesus. This man just spouts what ever comes to mind? I feel like a child was trying to explain to me what another grown up tried to teach them, only to fail.
Even though I like this movie the curator irritates me beyond measure. I'd half expect someone who is in that position should know a thing of two about western armor. Calling them "tin cans" is degrading and factualy incorrect. Now, Japanese swords and armor are often given untrue properties by people who get their facts from movies and anime. That sort of fanboy behavior is unfit for someone who hosts such a big exposition. Shame on him. Thumbs up for tested though, looks very interesting.
Samurai armor is gorgeous.
6:02 The eel head piece and mask were pretty badass too. Something I'd wear into battle in that day and age.
I understand the desire to appreciate the achievements of other cultures, but you don't have to do it by falsely denigrating our own cultural heritage. Nearly everything the curator said about Western equipment was false.
European armor, weaponry, and metallurgy were objectively superior to Japanese stuff.
That doesn't mean the Japanese craftsmen were inferior, they did the best with the technology and materials they had and achieved remarkable things.
Two things can be true at the same time:
1. Japanese weapons and armor technology and craftsmanship was incredible.
2. European armor technology and craftsmanship was overall superior.
Both of these things are true, and both are worth celebrating.
I love it when you guys do things like this, super interesting. Keep it up!
japanese have the most beautiful and rugged armor and sword i've ever see. The samurai sword ohhh it's like a gift from god😍😍
+Aqmal Danish They didnt use swords as main weapons swords was rarely seen in battles
+Alexandros grivas swords were very much seen in battle but most of the soldiers were not Samurai and we're usually using other more long range weapons
blzinhlfasian 0 Swords where never main weapons in battles always secondary
Hmm, have you by chance seen a Maximilian set of Armour? And have you seen a messerm or rapier?
***** I i didn't even notice your comment, lol. but now that I did, uhm... good?
thank you Norm for not interrupting the guy 678 times. and thanks for sharing that was pretty awesome
Let me guess this dude also thinks a Katana can split the atom?
Probably also thinks folding it a thousand times means it's superior or something
Beautiful! Thank you for this. It is a real treat to see these pieces of art.
this was really interesting, way to go Norm, bringing us more great content to view.
Great to see Norm's interviewing skills improving so much
faults these armor aren't pure bullet proof
is it better to not have this armor and be bare of protection when being fired upon?
xXdinorabbitXx's channel have you seen the star war movie why the empire side armor is useless against regular spears, arrows and laser blasters. See thous guy dead on the floor thous white troopers. Yea some how they die from thous when their armor meant deflect laser blasters still and yet they still die in the movie.
So making my point that I've have to edit. The armors only great against arrows, and melee weapons because they can absourbed it. When it comes to guns, they didn't wore tradtional armor, they have special armor plate came from the west more that is Europ country. That they got the idea of using conner plate like the knights do to deflect bullets for sure. They tested on their armor and the knight's armor why bulky is better deflecting bullets then samurai. Then they stole the idea using like knight's bodyplate.
+Louie “InfintyZero” Macorncan well if you actually use legends sources instead of movie depictions, you will then learn that stormtrooper armor is actually good armor(the plastoid composute part of the armor). the material was good enough to where it was used in darth vaders armor. you know your armors good if its from the same material as vaders armor. aside from point, youre saying no armor is better than not so substantial armor, especially when its all you can work with? k
xXdinorabbitXx's channel I was talking about the 1st starwar movie, I have re-edit my last comment about where they replace part their armor to be bullet proof. So pretty much as I am saying why I refering 1st starwar was really their armor was a joke for hollywood that how I described for samurai armor.
+Louie “InfintyZero” Macorncan in all honesty i am lost and now no long know what is the point you are proving
Many people are mad at how the curator got the weight of the European armour wrong, but it is easy to get the jousting/tournament (which does in-fact weigh 100 lb) mixed up with the battle armour (which as stated in almost every comment), is a lot lighter
The Shire horse of today is a direct descendant of English war horses of the 16th century. Shires get up to 18 hands on a very regular basis. You can't mount an 18 hand horse from the ground with or without armor on. Japanes armor is very inferior to European armor of the same time frame! A Japanese katana wouldn't make more than a dent in European armor, which is why European weapons became larger and more oriented for blunt force trauma. A Damascus blade doesn't make a sword magical or more able to penetrate armor, it just makes it stronger. The katana is a very lightweight sword not intended at penitrating forged steel armor. A katana would have a hard time penetrating chain mail let alone plate forged armor.
Of course a katana wouldn't make more than a dent in European armour. It wouldn't make more than a dent in Japanese armour, either. That's what armour is for, after all. Likewise, a knightly sword - whether one or two handed - would not make more than a dent in either European or Japanese armour - they were not designed for armour penetration.
Some longswords, in later periods, were made to be dedicated thrusters and could potentially penetrate maille, but even these swords were not optimal for the task. It was more that they could penetrate maille (barely) if they really had to.
samurai don't used katana at they main weapon in battle it the spear + bow lol
Katanas aren't light. they are actually on the heavier side of the sword spectrum.
This video is a huge lesson for how we are perceived with professionalism, authority, and what people take away from an authoritative message when there is known falseness in it.
Please leave this video up and comments enabled as a monument.
It's strange how an Asian guy gets taught by a white guy
well you know japanophiles...
khushita rai and the white guy knows more about japanese armour than western armour
This comment should liked 10000 more. Accurately funny 😂😂
Thanks for posting this video after the exhibit had left. This is something I could have gone to see.
Fully agree that curator is a complete ass-hat. All the functional technicality aside, other reason these armours were so aesthetically expressive was due to the fact that soldiers were going to their potentially last battle and they rather die looking good. As well as a failure in combat, especially of those in command, was a suicide to honour the shame. Correct me if im wrong. Also, choices of expression on armour, were clan related, ''honour medal'' like decorations, rank indicators, face masks were more of a persons fighting ''spirit'' expression. Correct me if im wrong.
AMAZING and BEAUTIFUL ART...LOVE it...Tradition of Samurai culture of Japan was always fascinating to me ! ! !
This curator knows absolutely nothing.
+NerdRagerGaming or he does, and he didn't want to sound like a pretentious dipshit academic so he's just explaining it for an audience that knows absolutely nothing.
maxdecphoenix
You shouldn't be threatened by intelligence. You should aspire to it. Calling Academics pretentious isn't fair to anyone.
+NerdRagerGaming I agree with you gentleman ^^
thanks for the upload I have always been intrigued with samurais of the ancient bushido eras ,this museum is amazing
this has been debunked
It's awesome to see period pieces of armour that are so advanced for there time. Great video guys
Incredibly well-made video guys! How about getting Adam to make a katana? :D
I love how they say most of the collection is from the Edo period, but like half the stuff the mention is from the Sengoku Period.. 11/10
such horrible information regarding western armor. complete lies. I get so sick of hearing "professionals" talk about how heavy and clunky western armor was. WESTERN ARMOR IS NOT HEAVY. My gosh, learn about what you're talking about and stop spreading false information.
Not all armor in Ghost of Tsushima is from that era. Armor from all ages in Japan will appear, but it's not a mistake, it's intentional
This curator Robert Singer is painting european western armor as inferior to japanese armor when it was quite the opposite. Must be his tribes instincts to do this
Depends on the conditions like your purpose, terrain, temperature, humidity etc. Not that simple.
He really got angry when norm said that adam has a samurai armour at home(before norm told him that it was a movie prop) ; that's how you know that a man is passionate about a subject.
We know he is completely inaccurate, but can we try to be civil and just point it out. Because that is more than enough to debunk someone.
It's awsome to see something like this, since it's quite unusual on youtube. thank you
Who’s here after playing ghost of Tsushima 2020
jcru40 meeee
(FUN FACT) The length of the mustache on the face plate of samurai armor tells the age of the warrior!
The hats.....it's like tf2
Cool exhibit. Also nice that he (exhibit curator at a major museum) took the time to do a video with you. Pretty sure that means you're legit now. :)
omfg there's so much"Western Armor is actually" comments it hurts.
Museums need to start hiring TH-cam users to put their exhibits together.
gusbaker4u I would definitely go to an exhibit put together by Matt from Schola Gladiatoria, Lindybeige, or the Metatron.
+Sen Flores mostly because , well its annoying that people who are experts of japanese warfare and i and a lot of people are tired of people like stephan turnbull and this guy constantly parroting the old myths about european stuff that is the reason why nitwits online think that the samurai is this godlike fighter and the european is this lumbering brute...
no , i wouldnt expect them to be total exoperts in western armour like tobias capwell or matt easton is... however...
i would expect theyd have some education on european arm0our, im sure this museum has hosted european armour before.
this guy seems more an expert on fine art and culture, not armour, so perhaps instead he should simply refrain from commenting on what he doesnt know about
***** lol I'm just laughing because of all the internet-experts in the comment section of a TH-cam video. I know the video is biased as hell lol and I'm aware that I don't know everything, however, I don't pretend to.
Unlike others, and that's what I find funny.
why hurts? we just critisize ignorant people
Not your usual video but I loved it. Very informational but to the point.
What an extraordinary bullshit-talk about european arms and armour :D
Haha aaaaah this hurts ! Still hearing this in museums even is pretty downing.
I *CAN* mount a horse in armour. And im no expert horseman or armour-bearer at all. :D haha reciting a victorian theatrical play in saying, knights couldnt mount a horse in armour is a disgrace.
*torn between loughing and pain* xD
Well at least he talks highly (and rightly so) about the japanese armour :)
Awesome video! Samurai armor is so beautiful and fascinating.
i love samurai armor. i have 3. i have videos of me riding horseback in the mountains in oregon in my samurai armor. archery in full armor etc etc. training in the mountains. i love samurai yoroi.
Hey, coming here from the metatron vid
That wasn't Tadakatsu Honda's Helmet was it? He's the only Samurai I know of that had deer antlers on his helmet, if it was then why the hell didn't they talk about it? He was one of the most incredible samurai in history.
A good example of 'lead with your interests' and we will follow!
I saw this exhibit at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto (where Adam recently had a nice time). They are absolutely gorgeous.
Some years ago, obviously.
Best video I've seen from tested so far. Good interviewing technique from Norm too. He's come a long way from the early days - asking good questions too. Very interesting viewing :)
Cool video, the work that goes into the creation of this armor is unreal.
Myth of european armour being heavy: It really varied. Light european armour may be heavier than a Japanese peasant infantry soldier's armour, for example. But an O-Yoroi is much heavier than that. And also you can definitely move pretty normally in european armor.
Glad I'm not the only one in here to complain about his comment on European armor. Well fitted armor is extremely flexible and the weights ranged a lot depending on how thick the pieces are. Good armor would have about 80 to 90 percent of the normal mobility. Knights could easily get on horses by themselves and you can watch footage on here of someone in full plate that got knocked off his horse and was able to climb back on after being dragged by his boot on the ground. There's also a video of a man in full armor doing everyday exercises to show how they trained to get used to the weight of their armor including hiking and running and using a climbing wall. Hell I've driven a car in my armor once (A buckle got stuck so I couldn't take it off until I got home)
Amazing collection - thanks for sharing, Norm / Tested!