One thing that's being forgotten is that dark magic doesn't require the death of magical sapients. Claudia, for a specific example, kills a fawn to restore her brother's ability to walk. I see nothing immoral in that. The resurrection is another matter, as it required the death of another sapient being. An enemy soldier, yes, but still a sapient being. Again, if we pay attention to what is shown and said, Claudia has been using dark magic for years without problems, so clearly it's not inherently corrupting or addictive. It can be used in ways that cause both, but it doesn't appear to be a basic property of the practice. Concerning the coal vs solar analogy, you seem to intentionally ignore that prior to Soren, humans were only capable of using dark magic, and any human who developed any way of connecting to any source would have set off the same events: the forced migration of humans from elven lands because the elves were not about to tolerate humans getting above their stations. This is the sort of action that leads to resentments. And to pursue your analogy, humans did not reject solar power, they were, so far as anyone had ever been able to determine, physically incapable of developing it. So it was a choice between using fossil fuel technologies or freeze in the dark as oppressed peasants.
well: that fawn might ben just a fawn: she used for -vitality- but most of Claudia's spell drain magic of elements themselves and those originate from magic creatures. I think the show clearly show us that those creatures have pretty decent intelligence. For example: Bait, Zym, Stella , basically all magical creatures shown in episodes show the skill to understand human speech, even some of them using it themselves so it would be an impossible stretch to say those were not sentient beings. Even the plants Terry uses now: as he says: :are not being controlled, instead they communicate with him, - That makes plants pretty intelligent now, doesn't it? Since when is intelligence level a standard for killing justification even? Another note: Ezren says he can communicate with bugs and -bugs love to gossip- so... That would make even bugs sentient. That pretty much means there is nothing in that world that Claudia can kill that isn't sentient: lol.
Humans weren't entirely to blame for the current situation: Sol Ragem demanded that Ziad and his followers give up dark magic but did not offer an alternative and his tone was hostile and condescending, leaving Ziad feeling he had no choice but to stand his ground. Rayla, on the other hand, was supportive of Calumn's desire to learn Primal Magic: she agreed to make a side trip to get the Key of Aaravos, she forgave his mistakes, their friendship gave him an empathy with magical creature that Viren and Claudia never developed and while Rayla did yell at Calumn for using Dark Magic, she also helped him back to their shelter and stayed at his side until he recovered.
I don't think Dark Magic is evil just because magical creatures die because of the use of it. I mean actually think about it, is killing a magical creature to power a Dark spell for a purpose really any different from us humans hunting and killing animals to feed ourselves? Like you talk about empathy and what not but there's a distinct difference between Rayla, a girl from a species as sapient as humans, and magic animals, creatures who are no different from a chicken, who we humans regularly eat for food. So what real moral quandaries arise?
@@ryancarson6962 3 All of the people we've seen using dark magic started with the noblest of intentions, but, with the exception of Calumn who turned away from it, they have all ended up doing at least as much harm as good.
@@ryancarson6962 2 In book 2 chapter 7 Claudia risked the wrath of her father by letting Ezran and Zym escape to help Soren. In book 2 chapter 9 she healed Soren with a dark magic spell that left her with a white streak and acted notable unhinged. In book 3 chapter 7 she refused to go with him despite his pleads and reasoning. In book 3 chapter 9 she tricked him into thinking he had killed their father and smirked when the deception was relieved. Clearly dark magic is changing Claudia for the worst.
@@ryancarson6962 1 I don't like comparing the use of dark magic to killing animals for their meat and hides for several reasons, including that you seem to be rationalizing something the series creators see as dangerous, a form of magic that clearly damages the user.
@@ethenallen1388 that's where you are blind to what magic can do... 1. There's a spell that fertilized the earth. Allowing for 10 full kingdoms to be well off for food. 2. You see a lot of dangerous spells and such, however, that is because mages in this show are in constant battle. Over the years I'm sure there were hundreds of Dark magic spells that saved the kingdoms from disaster, time and time again. You kill an innocent creature to save millions more. 3. There's no evidence the change in appearance hurts Viren over the series. It just becomes more present in his body. Almost like getting tan from being out in the sun. 4. Claudia casts a healing spell on Soren. Apparently there's a dedicated list of items that are for healing, coming from the quote, "That's all I had for healing!" So clearly there's a whole archive of different spells for healing. 5. Claudia made Soren able to walk again with a dark magic spell. That alone speaks for itself. Don't get me wrong. The way it developed through the shows, Viren used it for the worst. But Dark magic is still magic, just for humans. There could have easily been a nice dark magic user in the show. Claudia was one of them, as she didn't really get corrupted by her magic like her father.
“Just like Light. The Darkness is Part of the Natural order of the World. But just because Evil is attracted to it uses it to Hide it doesn’t mean the Darkness it self is Evil.” Quote by Some Guy in a Movie.
i think a lot of the distrust around dark magic being evil is from people's previous understanding of magic systems, there are plenty of magic systems, especially in gaming and tabletop rpg's where the dark evil looking magic isn't inherently evil, it's not a given anymore that a necromancer or witch is evil, bayonetta and similar tropes from japan come to mind as well. the question is what are you really looking at? if it's just killing a deer to heal paralysis, most people would consider that not really "evil". the corrupting influence is more to the side of evil but if someone did it knowing what they were getting into and taking steps to do so as safely as possible or at least making sure the price can be payed without too much going wrong, then it's not really evil anymore. it isn't too clear if the dark magic is really doing the corrupting either, it might do a bit but killing a deer for your brother would mess you up a little bit. until they actually talk about the corruption as its own thing we can't really be sure what the writers meant, because to a lot of people who are very used to dark magic in other things being more neutral get weirded out by how much characters focus on itty bitty insects being sacrificed. there's also just people who own snakes who eat live mice or even just people who own any carnivorous pet. they eat meat. not a big deal. the whole hair turning white looking undead is concerning but sacrificing looks for power isn't "evil" slowly becomming more unhigned still doesn't make it "evil" it just makes it generally a bad idea and not really useful but then the sacrifice just becomes one's sanity which isn't evil, it's just unwieldy. basically magic can't have a morality if it's just a tool that is used, it only can be evil if there's a lot of metaphorical things going on with it. and morality gets pretty complex in general
We must remember this is not an even universe. Humans have been clearly shown to be the oppressed group (kicked out of their homeland, don’t have the same resources/innate power, etc) and magic beings have seemingly fought tooth and nail to keep things that way. So if that means demonizing dark magic and its use, I can’t see why they wouldn’t do that.
could it be that maybe the current dark magic practitioners are not using magic safely? They could be using spells that are harmful, but dark magic can be safe too.
It’s definitely going to be more nuanced as time goes on. Particularly with the fact even dirt in Xadia is magic. If the problem with dark magic is stealing the life force of creatures, there’s definitely a “vegetarian” alternative to dark magic. Sacrificing magical plants, mushrooms and inorganic things like rocks to fuel your magic instead of sentient magical creatures.
If the problem were the “vegetarian” aspect, I don’t see why magical beings wouldn’t be more hostile to humans simply for eating meat and using animal products.
Conversely, it's not like the elves are staunch vegans -(or at least, they're not depicted as such yet - have we seen any elf food aside from moonberry juice?)- (Nope, Lujanne eats grubs, so no excuse there). Killing animals for meat and fur is fine, but killing animals for magic is not; the only possible rationale I think the writers can make for this is that they see it as some sort of religious wrong, and believe when you do it for magic, it destroys the creature's non-physical spirit or something.
@@DJstarrfish I’d lean into the spiritual/religious angle on it, which possibly also informs the bias the magical creatures have towards humans. How much of their hatred of dark magic is because of the properties of it, and how much of their hatred instead comes from the fact that they don’t think humans should be able to use magic at all? Like seriously how is Callum the only human to have primal magic? If the humans used to live alongside the elves, why has no elf ever taught a human how to connect to a primal source? They just took for granted that humans cannot use magic, and are not supposed to use magic.
the cube (or key) destroy that concept of you... since different creature has different tipy of magic, it probably will create different dark spells, so no.
@@DJstarrfish Dark magic destroys spirit of a sacreficed in a ritual creature and also mental and physical health of the one that performs ritual. We can see Claudia's memory and space orientation is altered and even a bit of her hair turns white
Clean energy is a good example, dark magic is like fossil fuels in that it's a short term solution. Primal magic is the better route. Problem is that it's never been an option for humans, human primal mages clearly weren't a thing before Callum. The elves have basically hoarded all the solor panels and wind mills for themselves and then complain (or firebomb) when humans choose to crunch up unicorn antlers so their kids can keep warm in the winter.
A lot has been brought up, so I'll do one myself. Viren and Claudia are often victims of circumstance, and their magical route only is an outlet. Viren, for example, has had a lot of negatives happen to him. From losing his wife, multiple friends, the King and more.. Yet through all of it, up until the start of the series, he always had good intentions. Saving lives, avenging those who were lost to provide closure, that kinda thing. I'd honestly argue Harrow is the one to partially blame, for Viren's true fall: He treated him like scum, like one lower than himself, in the moments of Viren offering to give his OWN life in trade for Harrow survival. Yet, Harrow treats him, as said, like a pest. This leads Viren down the path he takes. Such also leads Claudia, one loyal to her father, down the SAME negative path. She's been there to help, save lives, heal, and follow orders. Ones, which she questions, may I add. TLDR, Viren and Claudia would have ended up fine, had certain situations not doomed them.
I don't think it's 100% evil 100% of the time Like how Viren ended a famine, healed Soren from that deadly disease that had no medicine to deal with it properly, how Claudia healed Soren's paralysis and Claudia made both pancakes and coffee Also, Smarty Pants, you don't have to like Dark magic but I think you're missing the point of the show: when it comes to a lot of problems in life,it takes two to tango. By not seeing the gray areas of morality, you're not helping in the long run. Sol Regem called humans "lesser beings", the elves of the past and present don't care if humans go extinct tomorrow, the detractors of Dark Magic are NOT vegan (which by the way, it is possible to be a vegan in medieval times), Harrow's political reputation would have been damaged since the reason Dark magic was used to clean up Harrow's impulsive deal to put his own citizens in danger while helping another kingdom with a famine (Sarai did not seem to understand that people starve to death after 3 weeks, so "decades of hard work" would not mean much to dead people and the living relatives of those dead people). Our first introduction of elves is a bunch of adults breaking into someone's house to kill a child and his father (while none of those elves apologize) and of course, an elf saving a dragon that set fire to a town of innocent humans
Yes, but the dragon only attacked because Soren shot it. Its not that dark magic is immoral, its that it is a corrupting influence and damages your psychical and mental health. Yes, the humans are oppressed, but let's not forget that they caused the extinction of the unicorns. We have seen from Callum that they can master an Arcanum if they try hard enough. By trying to bring morality back into the discussion, you aren't really helping either.(no offence, just pointing it out)
@@gamergod8538 the Unicorns that haven't been mentioned at all in the actual show beyond showing a horn. their involvement is suspect at best as that information was only revealed in a book that covered the first season years after the first season was out and done. Adding to this that the blub was written by Aaravos and would be suspect by default. One shouldn't need to read alternate media to gain critical plot information about a show, especially not a retelling of the first season. So if it wasn't important enough to put in the show then I'm inclined to disregard it entirely. Also Callum is a rare human in regards to his ability to learn the arcanum. THe Showrunners mentioned only 1 in every 100 humans or so can accomplish such a feat. that's just learning the arcanum, and doesn't mention actually learning magic. There are very few dark mages to begin with and so there would be even fewer human primal mages, as it's just that much harder to actually learn and you might not even be capable of it even if you wanted to learn primal magic. Plus Primal stones, the only other means of learning primal magic are super rare and no human knows how to make them. As for the dragon. It was flying in Human territory, and constantly flying above that one town sowing terror and scaring everyone for 3 days straight without at least trying to announce it's intentions. They had every right to attack it in an attempt to get it to leave then citizens alone. the only thing Soren did wrong was underestimate His forces chances against a dragon. Even then, We got a really good look at why Dark Magic is Humanity's saving grace. That town was helpless against a lesser dragon until a Dark Mage brought it down.
It seems that the creators DO want us to believe that Dark Magic is inherently bad. Or at least, something that is too powerful for humans to fully understand and control, as shown by how it transforms Claudia's and Viren's physical appearances. That said, we can also tell the creators understand the complexities of humans' motives for using it. I don't agree that the humans going after the Magma Titan was an inherently "evil" or "wrong" thing to do. That was a decision Harrow and the neighboring kingdoms made for the survival of their people --- nothing more, nothing less. It had consequences, but that's with anything in life. Ultimately the Elves and Dragons wanted to condemn the humans for using Dark Magic, but didn't bother trying to help them in any way --- at least based on what we know of the lore. They basically said, "Find your own way to survive. Oh, but not like that!" And I think that's why a lot of the fandom wants to argue that Dark Magic is not inherently bad. Because ultimately, it's about using resources for survival. Characters like Viren may get greedy and not know when to stop, but Dark Magic can be and has been used for good things. Like I mentioned above though, and as you discussed, that form of magic does appear to have actual corrupting effects, at least on the surface. At this point it's unclear whether it has any negative physical or mental health impacts on the person using it. Hopefully in the coming seasons we'll learn more about it and its origins.
The argument of corruption is maybe a bit superficial. I think that Viren's "corruption" is not due to dark magic but to the various elements we see building up during the show, such as Harrow humiliating him, his genuine efforts being dismissed and him being characterised as "evil" (in a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of way). Same goes for Claudia with who she saw as her friends leaving her and going against what she sees as a moral authority, her father. As for Aaravos, I don't think he's fully evil at all, but much more of a grey character. I mean he obviously has done bad things but so have the elves and magical creatures we are supposed to see as "good". Sol Regem trying to burn an entire city to the ground? Thunder killing three queens for wanting to save their people? Elves assassinating a king and his *infant* son as revenge? These are only some of the things we actually see on screen, so imagine what we don't. The xadians often come off as dogmatic supremacists, borderline racists who believe humans should "stay in their natual place" (which is of course lesser than the great, noble, magical elves). Aaravos gives off Luciferian vibe as an angel/elf rebelling against their dogmatic culture/God of natural hierarchy and knowing your place, in search of knowledge/power. And about the fossil fuel analogy, I don't think it can be applied. First of all, it's not like magical butterflies are in risk of extinction. There is an extremely limited number of dark magic users who would never be enough to cause some kind of mass extinction or "climate change". Furthermore, they are not living in the modern world but in a more primitive setting of constant rivalry and war. Not using dark magic while your hostile neighbours who hate you and see you as lesser beings have magic would be willingly letting them have their way and subjugate you whenever you want. What would stop the elves and Thunder to destroy and enslave all human kingdoms? Clearly, from what we have seen, a one elf is enough to go through a whole castle and kill a king, and that dragon could face whole armies without dark magic.
I think dark magic isn’t inherently evil, but has a massive potential to be. Ziard (first human mage) and Callum both used it to save people they cared about, and didn’t become evil. People kill and eat animals to survive. People even skin certain animals because it looks fashionable. Dark magic is like that, but simply using the magic within a creature. Now, of course, dark magic IS indeed a very slippery slope, but CAN be good as long as it is managed carefully and used responsibly. It was used to save many lives, and create a beautiful city. Ziard sucking the magic out of the Phoenixes was not evil, he was trying to save the innocent people that Sol Regem was going to kill. Being the Dragon King does not necessarily make you good. Clearly, Sol Regem hates dark magic, but is willing to kill innocents out of spite and just for getting in his way.
A better name would be blood magic as it kills the living for power. We have never seen it draw power from the living but only seen it consume life for power. It is the Dark Side in every sense.
In my opinion, dark magic is about sacrifice, give and take. The problem is that the characters does not seem to grasp this concept completely. Claudia focus more on what she can take with dark magic, and not what she has to give. Harrow is unwilling to give anything because he had to give up his wife to save everyone else. He is unreluctant to use dark magic because since he does not want to give so he cant take. And finally Viren. The thing that caused him down a dark path is his final talk with the king. Viren was willing to give anything to the king. He even decided to give his life to save the king, but when he was about to, Harrow treated Viren as a servant. That broke him because all this time he was willing to give anything to the king because to him it was giving to someone he loves and adores. When he believes that Harrow does not feel the same way, it broke him. Viren no longer thinks about what he can give to others, but he now thinks about what he can take.
6:14 I mean I have to disagree with you on that one. I feel what they did was in the right (killing the fire golem). like first off killing it saved thousands of lives from starvation and two while yes they did kill off the last remaining fire golem here’s the thing, it was the Last remaining fire golem. Saying there’s one left of the species is pretty much saying the species is dead, it had no chance of bringing its species back and it would have died a sad lonely death, at least they allowed it to die fighting/an honorable death and again in turn allowed its death to have meaning, saving thousands.
Firstly, it was a Magma Titan, not a fire golem. Second, we don't know if Avizandium would have given help had they asked because they never asked. Third, I'm of the opinion that Saria was worried about the long-term consequences of invading Xadia to kill one of its creatures and, considering what almost happened, I think her concerns were valid.
Sarai's concern was valid but she didn't seem to understand that decades of hard work mean nothing to 100,000 people who have starved to death in 3weeks If Viren said/did nothing, Harrow's political reputation would have damaged for making that impulsive deal in the first place. No one would trust Harrow again Also, the dragons in the present have made it pretty clear that they don't care about humankind,even if Dark magic wasn't around in the first place
@@ethenallen1388 Yea, problem with that is Thunder wasn't much of a talker. He automatically attacks anyone trying to cross the border. It's really hard to flag the dragon down to talk to him when He's murdering you with all powerful lightning that can and has scattered an entire army. Thunder has a dread reputation in the Human's lands for a very good reason. He wouldn't allow them the chance to speak and so they dont even ponder giving that a chance. And Sarai was Naïve at best. If they hadn't killed the titan and performed the spell, Harrow''s kingdom would have suffered horrible losses to starvation. And when people start dying due to hunger... that tends to have bad consequences for the Nobility. Like... rebellions and the removal of the royal line Consequences. more so if they leaned that Harrow had a chance to avoid all this by either not helping Duren, or not killing one Magma Titan and solving the issue.
I think that it's a problem with the writing that the show clearly WANTS us to think of dark magic as evil through how it's framed, but I also think it's pretty obvious that there are ways to side step any moral quandaries that using dark magic would create. Human's could create sustainable farms that grow and raise things that they could use for magic. I don't believe that Dark magic is a corrupting influence as you stated. Aaravos is meant to be a mysterious figure. It's not supposed to be revealed to us yet why he is the way he is, but I think it makes perfect sense for Claudia and Viren to go down their paths based on their own up bringing and history. Claudia didn't START learning dark magic at the start of the show. She was raised to study it and think using it is fine the same way a child growing up on a farm slaughtering chickens thinks it's fine. You're theory that Viren's wife left him because she saw him as becoming evil and corrupted doesn't work if she insisted that her children stay with him. (Unless she just didn't care about her kids. That part's not clear) It seems like Viren and his wife had a normal divorce where they just incompatible. You brought up that Dark magic could be a perfect allegory for fossil fuels and I don't think that's the case. Green energy has been making advancements ALONG SIDE fossil fuels for a long time. We've known how water and wind can be used to harness energy for many years. In the show, Calum alone JUST discovered that humans learning magic is possible. Giving up a power source when no one yet knows of any alternatives is not a great way to move along humanity. And the human need some type of power source to stand on equal footing with the rest the magical creatures. Which leads me to my next point. I think the reason why humans were forbidden to use dark magic wasn't because it was inherently evil. When viewing the flashback to the origin of dark magic the problem the dragon brought up was hierarchy. The dragons didn't want humans to use dark magic because their society was built on an unfair hierarchy that placed humans on the bottom for being magicless. They didn't want humans moving up to become equals. I'm fully aware that this poor show has been jerked around by the studio and what we're getting is not what the writers originally wanted to make if they had their way from the start. I'm also aware that the show isn't over and my issues might get addressed as time goes by. But a major problem I have with it is that it's framing that some things are wrong, or unjustified but given thought. Maybe they are.
I completely disagree that the dragon "knew what was up." No, he didn't. He said humans were lower creatures and said he was going to destroy an entire town so that they wouldn't use magic. He is the bad guy here, plain and simple. If your first act is to kill an entire city because a few mages you don't like exist, you need to be killed because you are the problem. Also, I disagree that dark magic is corrupting. People just go down a dark spiral like this sometimes. I honestly feel like the signs were all there from the beginning. Anyone can go down a spiral-like that, especially with the events going on in her life. Even if she didn't use dark magic and she had to kill those deer or that soldier in a Frankenstein-like experiment to help her family she would be down the same path. Saying that dark magic is "corrupting" is just ignoring the story these characters are going through and how a person would naturally react to it. Actually, that Frankenstein idea brings up a much better question, what if this was about modern tech? If Viren shot the dragon with a modern anti artillery canon and killed it that way, nothing would change, other than the reason they would need the heart and him stealing the dragon egg for power. Which he was about to destroy before he was reminded that it could be useful, so dark magic actually saved Zim there. I mean, Viren wasn't even going to use magic to kill the egg. He was going to bash it with a stick until an elf told him how much power he could gain. I see dark magic like nuclear power. I fully believe that nuclear power is a good thing, that could help a lot of people. But I will not deny that nuclear bombs have been used for atrocities against both man and nature, much worse than anything dark magic has done. But we can not say that nuclear power is bad just because so many people "go mad" from the power having a nuke gives them. Kim Jong and Putin can threaten innocent people with nuclear annihilation, that doesn't make nuclear power itself evil. If they had anything else just as powerful, they would use it just the same. Also, calling dark magic "fossil fuels" just isn't right. They mention that even dragon snot is powerful. This means that any magic sheep can be sheered for reliable dark magic. Any old scales that fall off a dragon could be used as extremely powerful magic. Hell, even dragon crap is probably perfect for dark magic fertilizer. You can use it without hurting any creatures. So, it is actually a renewable resource you can easily farm. Hell, Viren was growing butterflies, which I could argue is a sustainable agriculture practice.
When I first started watching the show, I was immediately suspicious of the reasons why Xadia were so opposed to dark magic, sure it wasn't as nice as the other magics but honestly for humans who couldn't use magic, how else were they supposed exist in a world so dominated by magic. There was enough justification for it being labeled as bad for me to roll with it but it just struct me as odd. And I felt my suspicions were confirmed when we finally saw the confrontation between Sol Ragem and Ziad. In this confrontation we see Sol Ragem demand that Ziad cease the use dark magic based on the reasoning that killing magical creatures is wrong but then immediately having no qualms with destroying an entire city. "You are inferior creatures", that line confirmed my thoughts, this wasn't about dark magic being inherently 'evil'; this was about power, and for dragons and elves to have supremacy over the world and over humans. Sol Ragem did have a problem with killing, he just wanted control. Now I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent but this got me thinking whether or not Thunder supported this line of thinking. On the one hand he did go through with Sol Ragem's intentions by exiling humans to one half of the continent; however I find it hard to believe that Thunder, the dragons, and the elves, couldn't have just annihilated all humans entirely. That power seems available to them and humans were still in the early stages of using dark magic and probably couldn't have resisted (they did get exiled to one half of the continent after all and had no ways of crossing with just Thunder guarding the border). This almost seems like a kind of mercy from Thunder; I wonder if Thunder was actually sympathetic to the humans and felt some kind of compassion for them, maybe not thinking that dark magic was good, but that at least humans were understandable for turning to it. Perhaps the only reason he exiled humans was because he couldn't be seen as immediately overturning Sol Ragem's final commands as king of dragons immediately after taking the role, and for political reasons since most dragons and elven kingdoms would have been outraged both at the use of dark magic and Sol Ragem's injury, therefore having to take action against the humans but being unwilling to commit a genocide (this could have also been a possible reason since genocide would have made Xadia's stance that dark magic = bad hypocritical). I'm kinda curious if the show will look back and Thunder and his reasoning and position on the events that unfolded because his actions don't necessarily tell me that he truly hated dark magic in the same way that Sol Ragem would (Sol Ragem would definitely have eliminated most if not all humans if he had his way). We'll see if the show does look back or not.
To me it's not that dark magic is bad so much as it is addictive, just like fossil fuels. It doesn't require the time and effort Calumn invested in connecting to the Sky Arcanum and one can use it to cast powerful spells. I believe that's what the series creators are trying to tell us.
eh no? dark magic is harder than other tipy of magic... in the fact that dark magic required a medium form which absorb magic, rather than use the stuff that is already around you. dark magic require time and effort since it need rituals rather than runes, so no. how did you end in that conclusion?
@@poijnve3912 How about the fact that, prior to Calumn breaking that Primal Stone, no human had attempted to connect with one of the Primal Sources in longer than anyone was aware of? If it was easy then why did Ziad dig in his heels with Sol Regem? Why didn't Sol Regem point out that humans could use Primal Magic instead of calling them lesser creatures?
@@ethenallen1388 idk bais? other stuff? dark magic cast are more complex than what "normal" magic has to do.... also calumn is an expectation for the rule as in general.
@@poijnve3912 1 Have you ever heard of proof reading? 2 Wouldn't pulling magic from a "medium" be easier than trying to attune with the original source? 3 If connecting to the Primal Sources was easy for humans, why were Lugaen and Ibis so dismissive about Calumn's desire to learn Primal Magic? 4 Did you find that convoluted explanation as to why dark magic is harder than Primal Magic on an official Dragon Prince web site, book or graphic novel, or did you just make it up because it suits what you want to believe.
No, dark magic is definitely easier. Callum can use it immediately after a couple of hours mx with Claudia’s spellbook and he also didn’t need a medium (if I remember correctly it’s been a while since I watched the show). And even if it IS easy for humans to connect with the primal sources ( I don’t think it is since that blind pirate needed to spend decades on the sea before he had what was possibly a connection to a primal source) The elves actually refused to try and teach any human magic. And if dark magic is harder than why experiment and learn dark magic exists in the first place?? So yeah dark magic has to be easier or the humans deliberately created a magic that is harder to master.
Personally, I think up until it's revealed that humans, rather than having no magic and are instead UNRESTRICTED in the pursuit of learning magic, ark magic had every right to be used. It allowed th to play on a relatively equal playing field. But now that caelum has shown that humans can learn any and theoretically all magic, it's not so good anymore
I think it's just the overall pride between both groups. Humans were tired of being lesser, the other magical beings didn't like that they were doing that, especially when they were using dark magic. So they retaliate with more dark magic because they wanted to be seen as equals but had no alternative because they (other magical beings) didn't give them an alternative because they may not have wanted humans to be equal to them.
Dark magic does indeed feel like a step humanity felt they had to take to achieve equality because the magical creatures looked down on them, and still look down on them. Callum is proof humans CAN use primal magic, but the magical creatures are so insistent that humans cannot. It’s like they never bothered to actually see if humans could actually be magic or not. They were content accepting humans were inferior and got mad when humans were upset about it.
@@IceFireofVoid I also don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibilitie that there any humans they(dragons and elves) heard of humans achieving in the past (using primal magic) were quickly killed so that dragons and elves didn’t lose their advantage and wouldn’t have to admit they were not superior.
I’d counter that by saying it’s the cycle of vengeance and struggle for power that corrupts. We clearly see at the beginning the first to attack because of dark magic were the dragons, weather out of dogmatic a hatred for dark magic or anything humans produce or a simple fear of losing their dominance and having the balance of power shifted out of their favor (or perhaps something that will be revealed later which would change my mind). Humans are seen using dark magic to protect themselves, a one life for thousands sort of deal, so either those who have inherent magic either are afraid of losing their power or simply have a hatred for hatred’s sake (or again there could be something we don’t know yet). I also feel the fossil fuel analogy just doesn’t fit, as this would only harm the user and the life that was taken if not for the clear aggression of dragons and elves against any who would use it or even stand to benefit from it. And if it’s merely to protect life, why wouldn’t the dragons and elves try to destroy humanity for eating meat or using animal products?
i know this is old... but killing something to eat is not the same as killing it with dark magic... killing it with dark magic destroys its soul killing it for food does not..
The dragon it makes it seem a part of it being they don't want humans who are not of magic using it. Not that it got out of hand yet but just because of bias from what was seen so far
Yeah same feeling, the dragons/elves reasoning seemed off to me, they’re other argument was also seemed off with the whole “it uses living things” like is it so different as opposed to using living things for food (have the time they don’t even need the living animal just a body part) like if it was more it destroys part of the soul entirely removing it from reincarnation or something that would be different but they just say it uses living things. And like you said we see the more harsher/extreme side to it but they only saw it prior to being out of hand or the like
@@christopherauzenne5023 not to mention they have said you can do things with just parts of creatures. You can do magic with a horn, scales, even just dragon snot. You can't tell me that drawing the magic out of snot uses up the dragon's life force.
For me dark magic in dragon Prince is like fel în Warcraft. Addictive, can be use in both bad and good ways, and even demon hunter and warlock admited that this magic can corrupt. Both fel and dark magic Requeire sacrifice, souls, essences etc. Kael thas is a prime example, before fel he wasnt paranoide, or evil. Yes, he had a addiction for magic after the sunwell destroction, but only using arcane to feed, IT was enough and didnt create futhermore addiction. After he take a bite of fel, he wanted more that leads to join the legion. In their nature, both dark magic and fel(as well void) are evil, but there are ways that can be used for good. Still there is always the problem that the magic will corrupt the user(dark magic/fel) and leads him to a darker path
For all the contrived nonsense of WoW's plot, I think they do a better job with fel magic than The Dragon Prince currently does with dark magic. In the game, there are a lot of warlocks and demon hunters that are portrayed as heroic, despite walking a razor's edge with the nature of their powers. The older in-game flavor text says it best: When the Burning Legion invaded, many people turned to the Light for protection. The warlocks were the ones who chose to fight fire with fire. So far, in The Dragon Prince, dark mages are portrayed as unambiguously villains. The show is leaning pretty hard into the "this magic Jesus, this other magic Satan, no exceptions" fantasy trope that I really hate. Even in the one or two cases shown so far when dark magic is used for noble ends, it is later shown to be "bad" in the long run. Maybe other seasons will expand on this, though, idk.
To me dark magic is not inheritly good or evil but requires sacrifice to use it. The over use of dark magic results in horrible appearance and effects. Look at the orb of storm isn't that dark magic but not inhumane
I don't think dark magic is evil. For one thing the elves and dragons hated that the humans were killing living creatures to power spells, then I guess the humans should just stop eating fish, cattle, eggs, and anything else that kills an animal. Humans need protein and while we can make substitutes now, there was a lot fewer options in ancient times. Also, the humans did not need to kill the creature, just a part of it can work. Take the dragon horn, a small piece was able to make a bridge over lava to allow 2 entire army to cross probably days apart. As for the corrupting part, I say they look like that is because using such a large spell takes part of their vitality or life force to power and if they do those types of spells to many times then they will die. Viren used the butterflies to look normal but the scars of healing his son remained even years after showing that using such spells will cause permanent damage to the caster. As for why humans turned to dark magic, the dragons and elves showed little care for humans and even saw them as lesser beings. In real history one thing always happened with that mindset, slavery. It probably won't show such a thing in the show (right now I haven't finished the new season) but I would not be surprised that the elves had human slaves, after all they would be cheap labor to build their grand cities and they had nothing to fight back with; even the best human warrior can't defeat the elves with their magic and weapons. To fight back humans learned dark magic and properly build their civilization before the story was shown. As for it being corrupting, yes absolutely; but that is true for most powers dark magic just makes the signs physical.
Id argue that Dark magic wasn't the cause of the problems you brought up: those where caused by the elves and dragons attempting to commit genocide on humanity simply because the where using dark magic period. Not because of any negative effects of the dark magic itself. Is dark magic to blame for that? Or is it the result of the biases and prejudices of elves/dragons? I argue almost all the later vs the former. Dark magic did not force the elves/dragons to attempt to exterminate humanity (or later successfully partition them off in the continent) : they chose to do that of their own free will, and I feel blame lies fully on them in that respect.
Honestly I feel the dark magic isn’t “evil” but addictive like a drug. I would more compare it to a medical drug like opium that when some people used it became addicted and started abusing it to the point they couldn’t live without it. This can be further seen in the descent of those who use it, Claudia and Verin, who used it and became addicted over time and repetitive use resulting in that addiction changing and consuming them. This magic can be used for good and to help, but with the freedoms that magic has comes the cost that it has to be used sparingly as to prevent people from becoming an addict who only thinks of their next fix.
I think as long as the mage isn't killing something to cast a spell, magic creature are indifferent to dark magic techniques. Runan did use the "crush magic thing to make magic spell happen" thing in episode 1, he just used a moon opal instead of a magical creature
I didn’t think dark magic was evil. Its overuse causes a constant physical change for the user but it is only a sign of evil in pop culture. The series does not show that this is corruption of evil. In the series, the price of dark magic is criticized but sacrificing a deer for a man is not evil. Magic animal body parts and plants are the most common secrefice but it alone is no worse than hunting, raising animals or tearing off a single flower. The conflict may have started with magic but it was not the magic itself that was the cause but the goal they wanted to achieve. If Harrow had allowed the inhabitants of the other country to starve, this would not have happened but the king pulled himself a terrible situation. (Honestly, a king would protect his own people first and then others. Harrow, on the other hand, would have left fifty thousand of his own people to starve for nothing.) There was no good solution here. Sure, they could have asked for help from the elves but I don’t think they would have helped. Aaravos is a master of all 6 primary magics. But he, too, was born with only one so he could create the dark magic to get the other five. (Which is unnatural for an elf, but not for a man, I think.) Overall, the dark magic in the series is evil but so far it has tried to justify it in a way that doesn’t show it that way for me.
Is there confirmation that Aaravos invented Dark Magic before mastering the other Primal Sourses? It seems to me that he would have masters all six Arcanums, but they weren't enough to feed his growing ambition, so he invented Dark Magic.
@@ethenallen1388 theres a poem that had been released around the time of season 2 or 3 that mentioned that Aaravos was the 'Midnight Star' of Elarion(the first major human city which was also nearly destroyed by Sol Regem) and it was implied he brought dark magic to them(which is also implied to be the reason he was imprisoned).
He actually mastered the others first I think, and created dark magic in collaboration with humans back in Elarion. Cuz he can seamlessly use regular sun and sky spells without needing components(unless he uses himself as the component).
If Viren had stopped after using dark magic to break the famine, it might have been OK, but he went on to convince Harrow that they had to use dark magic to kill a dragon that was just defending his territory, which led him to betraying Harrow's son and everything else he did. If Claudia had stopped after using dark magic to heal Soren, it would have been OK, but she continued to go deeper, has killed a fellow human to resurrect her father, and she'll probably do worse in the seasons to come. Only Calumn was able to use dark magic once, then find another way to do things.
When I saw this video’s title and thumbnail I was like “hold on, is there new info on TDP?” And proceeded to check Netflix and then the internet to find nothing. Fun times
Saying dark magic is inherently bad is like saying organ transplants are bad. In the way its used in the show its like if you took someones organs without their consent, meanwhile the practice can and does save lives. The problem with dark magic in the show is that they do not respect the sentient creatures used for it and see them like animals or fuel to be used.
So it is wrong to use because it will make dragon attack humans. That's a problems because of the dragons not dark magic. That is like saying sign languages are bad because it will make hearing people mad. Now the fossil fuel is on the right track but with FF we have more advanced ways to make power now, but is the green version for humans? Sustainable dark magic where they grow and farm the materials they need. There is primal magic but only Callum can use it we don't yet know why him and how repeatable it is. Humans would be the equivalent to a 3rd world country that has no good place for hydro power and solar. What green option is left for them? For the corruption, Would Viren still do evil things if say he knew primal magic?
Well. That dragon that threatened that early human city. Because it threatened a power balance between the human and the elves. Also it seems humans where forces into less hospitable lands. Not to munchkin it seems dark magic is nich and also there neighbors who have forced them onto this land has ignored and chance of aid and trade. I wouldn't want a all powerful war machine over my head that could destroy your whole city just because they felt a little threatened
The concept of dark magic isn't inherently wrong. In some ways, of course, it can be seen as hunting for food or warmth, the concept of trading a non-sentient life to benefit more lives. My problem with dark magic is gradually gets more and more corrupting. Using dark magic instantly puts a 'smell' on you, something that taints you, which is never a good sign. Even Callum used it once, and it seemed like he almost died because of it. My point is, dark magic just demands more and more. I'm sure the first practitioners never saw dark magic, which was seen as a beacon of hope, causing the extinction of the benevolent unicorns. It ultimately corrupts, like for Viren, and possibly even Claudia.
I mean the whole “using the lives of other creatures” sounds bad on paper until you realize isn’t us using animals for food the same basic idea? And half the time they don’t even need the living thing they can just use the tail of a newt or the like. Any thoughts?
@@christopherauzenne5023 Exactly. People in the Dragon Prince keep saying the using animals for Dark magic is wrong and yet no one who hates Dark magic is a vegan,so they don't have a leg to stand on
@@DragonGoddess18 it not the same, killing for eating and killing for commodity are 2 different stuff... it not the same human dont need magic to live, they need to eat
I think they do, Viren's fucked up form where his eyes are black and he looks all veiny and grey is his true form. He hides it with magic. So it's likely that it truly does drain the users life force as payment for dabbling with magic without any connection to the source arcanum.
Green energy analogy fits better than you think. Modern "green" energy is not sustainable and cannot really replace fossil fuels or nuclear power - it's unreliable, requires very non-green components for generators, and wears down too quickly. It sounds cool and good, but it does not solve the problem. Fossil fuels are still essential and would be for some time no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. Same with dark magic - only one human so far managed to learn arcana, and we don't even know if it's a fluke or could be replicated, and humans in DP need magic for their civilization to function as much as we need energy for ours. It may be evil, but it's a necessary evil.
The problem is humans had to use it. As the fire King of dragon said, humans were just animals to the dragons and elves. Humans could never survive in a world full of magic
to me dark magic always looked like the lazy way to do magic i.e. "I don't have magic so I'll take it from some one else" callum does the work to develop magic and is rewarded you have to do the hard work!
I honestly think the Fossil Fuels analogy is a great comparison. It was necessary to give humans the chance they needed to progress, but each use of it comes at the cost of something and someone. And honestly, I agree with what King Harrow said. It's a shortcut. Callum demonstrated that humans, while not born with an Arcanum, are capable of figuring out their own connection to the primal source. Callum once said, "There's nothing inside me." But I argue that this "nothing" is actually a vacant space that can be filled with anything. It takes work and hard studies, but I think that a human can theoretically learn any practice of magic they want with enough time & effort. Dark Magic is the easy way to magic, built on the sacrifices of other living things. It also seems like a distortion of magic that's twisting it to do things it wasn't meant to do, like moders & hackers tampering with a game's code. It sounds fun, but the game was not designed to do such things.
Like a LOT of people in the comments, I think that it is more complex to that. Yes, Aaravos, Claudia, and Viren have done evil with dark magic. But for Ziard we so far have no proof of him being evil or corrupt. We will probably learn as the story continues if he did do so, but until then we only have him killing a flock of birds and blinding Sol Regem (a dragon which is clearly arrogant considering he sees humans as "lesser beings") to save probably thousands of people. There is definitely more to that in of itself so far Ziard seems to have only done good with Dark Magic. Really so far, aside from a few cases, the creatures used in dark magic have been non-sentient, which in a large portion of society wouldn't be seen as evil since its comparable to eating meat or using furs to make clothing. I'm probably going to get some backlash for saying this too, but I don't think "Green Energy" sources is a good example of how to explain it, at least not how you explain it. First off, humans can't use magic like elves, Callum being the only exception. So, it would be like us complaining about the Victorians using fossil fuels when they had not developed the know-how for more clean sources of energy. Second (and I know some people will dislike this) what often is seen as "Green Energy" is rarely as clean as one might think. Sure, they aren't pumping out black smoke clouds, but they still cause pollution, whether it be air pollution from wind turbines, the pollution from the batteries needed to store solar energy, or the negative effects on river wildlife from hydroelectric dams. This can still work how you describe it with that knowledge, but only by factoring in that, while non-dark magic is not meant to be harmful, you can still use it to do evil acts. Just because fire magic does not have dark and purple coloring or takes the essence of living creatures, you can still use it to cause massive destruction. Even something that could seem as harmless as healing magic can be bad if you use it to save someone who will do evil things. Overall, while yes Dark Magic can be a corrupting influence on people, to say that it only leads to corruption is oversimplified. It's very much like power in itself. Yes, many people are corrupted by it but that does not mean everyone who has ever had power became corrupt. So, I would say that while dark magic is definitely not preferable and has large problems, there is cause to say that it can be used for good, and that that good does not always end up being evil.
I totally agree on your points about “Clean Energy.” The concept sounds nice and clean, but it’s a complicated mess that ultimately does more harm than good in its current implementation, Wind turbines are notoriously fragile, all things considered. They also are bird killers and normally emit a frequency that’s uncomfortable to the ears. If the turbine stops spinning, they actually need GAS to get it started up again. Disposing of the blades is also a giant headache, and those blades need constant maintenance to run just right. Even then the lifespan is pretty low. So Wind energy is finicky, an eyesore, a bird killer, and has a carbon footprint. Solar’s problem is the energy storage isn’t there yet. I can see it okay for minor appliances on houses or buildings, but no way would I trust it only. Similar issues with solar panels being costly and filled with a bunch of chemicals and items that are ultimately not recyclable. Plus a lot of the necessary minerals needed for production are dangerous and exploitive of third world countries. I honestly would liken Dark Magic to nuclear energy if we wanna keep the analogy. Effective and relatively safe, but needs strong guardrails to keep from ‘overheating.’ Given developing technology and standards, nuclear is actually the safest and most efficient energy source. The only reason it has a bad rep is from disasters where 1) people purposefully screwed up (Chernobyl) or 2) forces beyond human control (like Fukushima).
You're right about all of this There's more nuance to Dark Magic in the Dragon Prince than most people want to acknowledge. Sometimes, something is a problem if one chooses to see it as a problem.
Veeerrry late to this discussion, but I wanted to add my piece: I like that you mentioned Viren and Claudia’s sense of security in dark magic. Unlike the natural magic, dark magic *takes* power. Using she six natural types relies on the sources to guide you (Callum described the sky archanum as wind and him being the sail, so I think something similar can apply for the other five), but dark magic commands things. Another small detail: natural magic uses a word or two, but dark magic has a whole chant (needing more to control vs. letting a power flow kind of)- not sure if it actually means something, but I thought it was neat. But back to the point, when Callum used dark magic, it was him giving up on sky magic- resorting to a different, more attainable power when trusting an existing one eludes you. The the,e very starkly reminds me of Christianity tbh (and I guess Judaism too since it’s not really needing Jesus for the comparison- though I guess you could make a case for Zym lol). The dragons are God, the elves are angels, and Aaravos is the Devil (an angel who was cast out for doing evil). It’s not perfectly analogous, obviously, since humans and angels aren’t racist toward each other, God doesn’t humanity, etc., but still. Aaravos, though having the star archanum, decided to use dark magic instead, going against the dragons’ rule, then giving that same power to humans, which causes them to be sent out of Xadia (serpent giving the fruit to Adam and Eve, let get cart out of the Garden of Eden). Humans have been told dark magic is the only way to have power, and they keep using it because, well, no one likes feeling powerless. And when Callum learns about the true way of magic and wants to use it and not dark magic, he gets resistance from every side, so it becomes alluring to resort to dark magic. It’s constantly shown as a temptation, something you can choose to fall into. Aaravos is clearly tempting Viren when in the mirror to go deeper into the spell, and Viren tempted Harrow into killing the magma beast and the dragon king. Using dark magic is rebellion against the dragon king and natural order, while using the six is respecting them. The humans rebelled, the elves (for the most part) stayed loyal. Aaravos/Satan rebelled go they were punished. They got the humans to rebel too, so they were also punished. (Another similarity with Christianity I noticed was if you view elves as Jews instead- Israel believed that only they would be with God, but Jesus made it so that the entire world would be with Him. Israel had a covenant with God, so that’s like the elves having an archanum. The rest of the word didn’t have that, like TDP humans, but they can forge that connection if they want to. Having an archanum also doesn’t guarantee anything though, as we see with Aaravos, who still went to dark magic and was punished for it.) Those who use archanum magic rejected taking their own power and decided to rely on the magic they were given (even though elves naturally have an archanum)- pride vs. humility. And the ironic thing is, dark magic doesn’t even use they own power; they’re still using magic from other creatures! It’s not theirs at all! Yet they still see it as being powerful. And I think that’s why it destroys them: it’s foreign to their body. The archanum is inside of someone, it’s a *part* of them, but dark magic comes from outside- it doesn’t belong there. Callum’s response to it was literally becoming sick; your body responds that way when a foreign pathogen enters your body. A stronger comparison is drugs and addiction. You like how it feels, but you feel crappy after, and yet you keep using it to get that high again, only more each time to counter tolerance. And each time, you get further from where you started in the Garden. That ended up being way longer than I intended, so hopefully someone reads it and gets something out of it. I’d love to hear others’ thoughts!
So here’s one piece I disagree with. What evidence do we have of Claudia being a moral person? She’s nice at the beginning of the story, but has always been a character willing to sacrifice for the people she cares about. Just because she’s nice, doesn’t mean she’s selfless or moral. And arguably, dark magic might not be the thing corrupting people entirely. It might be the energy required for certain spells/ the act of killing itself. Killing a fawn to heal paralysis sounds like a good exchange, but a child killing a baby animal for their own gain probably has negative mental affects.
As shitty as it was for the dragon king to use it as an excuse to kick out all the humans, I do get the sense that the show itself is trying to portray dark magic as a corrupting influence. The idea that dark magic *doesn't* make its practitioners evil or that it could be used for a good thing is never really explored, whereas the evils of dark magic are always on full display. I don't think we're meant to sympathize with it.
The butterfly virgin sene makes me think it’s like an addiction however humans thought they couldn’t have magic so dark magic is very practical which it was what else could fight dragons! so it was needed for war and to prevent starvation and to heal it is just necessary .
I mean, power itself can never be good or bad, even if it corrupts. The cost can be. If Viran would stop after healing his son for good, would you blame him? I wouldn't, even if he sacrificed a pig or something.
Dark magic isn’t necessarily evil, if you refrain from killing creatures to use it. But I argue that humans don’t need magic for the most part. They just want it because everyone in Xadia has it. Humans on TDP have made impressive architecture and weapons. They have at least the real world equivalent of Roman Empire capability. Probably even better in terms of metallurgy. The point is humans can thrive without magic.
I personally believe that the comperison between fossile fuels and dark magic is a bad one.Sure they both have awful side effects and we out to straigh away from them.However the humans in the series have no alternative there is no other magical way to yeald magic for humans and so the better comperisson would be considered the idea of Victorian engand where it was ether fossil fuels or no idustrialization ,which objectivly improved quality of human life.So there is no way for humans to save them selfs in case of an emergensy (like we see in the series) other than dark magic. Note1: I know we saw athe use of wind magic but still it was from single human and how he got it was gess what through dark magic.Also he and nobody else has no idea how to teach that or any other element for that matter to other humans Note2:Sorry for bad English it's not my native language
I personally think mother’s basement said it best. You should watch his video for the full thing but basically: dark magic is a shortcut to power. Wether dark magic corrupts inherently is yet to be seen but it’s users are far more likely to become arrogant and stop looking for other solutions. This becomes a vicious cycle where the dark magic users solves all their problems with dark magic and stops thinking of non-magic solutions. This is not confirmed but makes sense to me but you should really watch mother basements video for the full explanation. Here’s another take that I was thinking about. What if dark magic isn’t inherently bad but it leads to bad things. The creation of dark magic led to the rift between magic and humans, the killing of the giant led to the death of two queens and so on. Dark magic may not be bad but so far we have seen a lot of bad consequences for people who use dark magic. Whereas when Callum uses normal magic to solve his problems there aren’t any such consequences. Just a thought
I don't like the show anymore due to Callum and Rayla being a horrible couple(prefer them if they just stayed friends and didn't date/said they loved each other 3 weeks after meeting two of which was spent by Callum still being in love with a girl he has liked for years) but when I did I had a theory way back in the beginning, especially when Aaravos was introduced. I knew he was the one who thought dark magic to humans and I knew the cube was the key for unlocking something(its in the name so that part is easy). What I theorized was that dark magic is star magic without a source, and since it lacks a source it sucks away at whatever is offered to it. Aaravos is the only character other than dark mages to use all sorts of arcanums, perhaps because the star aligned beings were the strongest and rarest they could learn how to control the others with time. When Aaravos uses his own magic his eyes, markings and hair glow white, when someone uses dark magic their eyes and veins turn black but unlike Aaravos, these changes are permanent(cuz the cost of magic without a source is damage to the user, Viren's messed up look is his true appearance and he uses moon magic to hide it. this much is fact). The key can possibly be for two things rather than just the one. One thing would be to free Aaravos from the actual place he's held in. The place shown in the mirror is just a reflection of a physical place and its possible that they could actually find it(callums journal entry states that he feels like something is pulling at the cube, certain directions glow brighter and stronger which might be a sort of compass to the place, given to the humans by Aaravos himself in order to free him since he could see the future. That last part is true so he probably knew he would be imprisoned). The other thing it can possibly unlock is a connection to the arcanum for those born without one. He possibly created this as a way to help humanity find their own arcanum, but many turned to dark magic and couldn't pass the test like Callum did. There's a reason one of his visions involve him looking through keys and finding the cube, which only showed dark magic as a 'source'. It's a test to prove if one is worthy of magic, something many failed and possibly led to the elves imprisoning Aaravos and the dragons killing the dark mages. But those are just my theories.
We know from assumption and now interviews that dark magic doesn't corrupt, and it isn't addicting. We know it doesn't require killing, and even if it does that's not much different from eating meat to survive. We know that before dark magic that humans were basically second-class citizens that were worse off than everyone else because of no connection to any arcanum, and after the elves/dragons saw them gain a hint of equality they used primal magic to tear the land in two just to maintain power. Dark magic doesn't lead to the death of the queen--the same would have happend if they were just going after some really cool crop in Xadia or something, meaning that and it's consequences you mention (5:48) are just "cycle of violence" stuff and nothing is dark magic's direct fault. It's a poor comparison to coal, because for humans this isn't between dark magic and the purer primal magic--it's between dark magic and no magic at all. Plus, as discussed, primal magic has been *much worse* for the environment anyways for what it's done to the land.
Technically, Callum didn't perform drak magic. he just performed a spell just like it was with his primal stone... if we say that Dark Magic is "Sacrifice for power".It means that people sacrifice "living" things for their owe benefice. Is it good and morally justify ? Depend of context. The world is not good or bad. Viren for love saved is own son by sacrificing himself and something that fricked his wife, Ziad cause of fear and insecurity didn't wanted to re-become powerless against dragon and so endangered humanity. Claudia for "not to be alone" sacrificed creatures to save her own brother and father... U could say that Callum also used dark magic as well. But no... Was it for his own selfishness. Technically Yes. But what did he sacrifice ? His own sanity ? No... His time in the "dark world" ? Well no... he even gain something from it. What he sacrificed was an already dead spongious tantacle. So, did callum sacrificed a living thing ? No. So callum didn't perform the dark magic.
He did use dark magic though, he used a spell while holding a piece of a dead creature as it's fuel. Claudia uses dark magic without having to kill creatures at times, like the smoke wolves, she uses pre-killed beings who still have a bit of power inside. Thats why the dragon horn was so good for a spell, dragons are full of magic, even pieces of them.
I dont entirely agree with this. i think that technically, Callum did tap into the force of dark magic, but he did it in a more moral way without having to sacrifice a living magical creature. I don't think "dark magic" has any inherent moral weight to it, it's just a type of magic that can be used for good or bad as you said.
So my opinion on Dark Magic stems from my experience playing Dragonage. In that world magic is seen as evil, because mages are very easily corrupted by demons and they have something similar called blood magic. In the first game if you do things out of a certain order to save a child his mother sacrifices herself in a blood magic ritual to free him from the influence of a demon. And at that point it is seen as something vile, but in the third game in a throwaway line near the beginning you learn that it has its origins in something more humble and tame. It originated as a way to cast spells when the caster didn't have enough power, but the people would freely sacrifice themselves or just a few drops of blood with consent. In the show you are shown that bits and pieces of creatures can be used. I.e. the dragon spike Claudia gave her dad near the end of the show. And what if the sacrifice freely offered themselves. I believe what we are seeing is a corrupted form of Dark Magic and that all forms of magic have the ability to be corrupted. Is it a magic that can easily be misused-yes. It's why it is a magic that should only be used sparingly.
Wow they touched on it and then you slide away so quick. Humans at the time of the series cannot touch the other magics. It's denied them, and the other nations do treat humans as lesser because of it. You make the fossil fuel versus green energy argument but forget the point out that humans aren't given the option to use the other type.
The writer of the series is clearly making it to where anyone that uses dark magic goes evil. But if you have no other option to save your child, I'd be sacrificing me a cow without thinking. Basically this is a human's lesser trope that some writers like to use. And humans reaching out for power to pull themselves up to everyone else's level makes them evil.
Elves can only tap one Arcanam naturally, "Dark Magic" lets you access all types of magic, either through an Artifact (like the Primal Stones) or something containing the power of that Arcanam, living things appear to be the quickest, easiest and apparently most powerful way to do that. take stones or water from the Moon Nexus and you may be able to use that to power some simple Illusions or Glamors, but I don't see the Moon Shadow Elves letting you "Desecrate" some of their "Holy" Items for a few party tricks. Want to cast Sky Magic without getting blood on your hands just step out in to a Cyclone, but they don''t come along every day. "Dark"magic is the Key, what you choose to unlock is on you, mostly because initially they don't know better humans choose Poorly at best and once you start down the truly dark path the damage is already done and it's hard to step away.
What if dark magic corrupts because it's the residual will of the magic creature hurting the mage from the inside as a form of revenge? Could ethicallt sourced "black" magic, obtained withiut hurting the magical creature or/and with the express consent of the magical creature cause no corruption? Could this be another tool to breach the fundamental difference of interest between humans and magical creatures?
Dark magic uses primordial magic without understanding the arcanum, thus the user has to distort the magic to use it. My theory is that by distorting the magic, the distortion corrupts you as well.
I mean The elves and dragons did see humans as lesser beings so they probably treated them like such so in a way it’s kinda of there fault for example sol regain did say give up dark magic or I’ll kill a village full of people people
Its not evil per say but it does seen to have a mental and physical toll on the user e.g Callums fever but I think the reason the elves and dragons consider it evil is because it doesn't just harm other beings but the user as well
Let's see, is sacrificing other living things do to magic evil....well yeah, duh, also its weak baby necromancer shit, necromancers are always like I HAVE A UNSTOPPABLE UNDEAD ARMY! And then one cleric that can cast sprit guardians shows up and kills 90% of the army just by walking around, fucking get good necromancers
Yeah, like literally every other fandom has darker or eviler magic "Dark" that just killing a dear or a bug to cast a spell is not viewed as evil. Like killing a animal to cast a spell a thing that real life culture around the world has done for thousands of years and they are not viewed as evil.
@@Underworlddream expanding upon that considering the fact that the very dirt is also magic you can use fruits, vegetables, spices, rocks it doesn’t have to be a life for life.
@@daring6983 It hard to imagine Dark Mage in over a 1000s years haven't figure out how to cast spell from anything else that not from a animal. Like the Elves could crush rocks for spell, it should be a easy few step from human Crushing a bug to human Crushing planets or rocks to casts the same spell ahould they come from the same magical elements. The magic system similar enough that it should be possible, it basically all about getting a magical source to fuel your spell. Like even if it has to be alive or fresh, a plant or tree could easily fill that. It feels like they haven't put much thought into the magic system, like I really basic.
Necromancy is considered a crime and yet I own a construction company with wights, draugrs & skeletons, imagine this, what if the IJN Yamato & Musashi were docked near Tokyo, that is the power of the dark arts, getting cool stuff for free, Mining, construction, farming why just stop at undead legions, hell my undead labourers can out clock China's work camps, Russian gulags & Nazis labour camps,...ok bad example but I can work night and day, I can unclog NYC sewers in a week for no less than 50.000 $
Some of he practices are evil but it could be better! There was that episode where Callum did a spell by crushing a coin. If humans take the time to evolve the magic then it would come down to how it's used. It would be like going from fossil fuels to E85 but right now I would fall on the it's evil side of the convo.
Who knows what messed up stuff Viren had to do to save Soren. A gusse for me is her seeing him brutally murder an elf and use there life force was probably it or mabey he just killed a random guy to make fluffy pancakes idk :/
Oooookay strawman maker, so a man saves tens of thousands of people from starvation and the destabilization of a country potentially leading to war and you say "but it leads to the death of the queen". I would value the lives of a single person over some rock golem every single time, that's an easy choice. The queen dies saving her people like she was willing to do, that's why she went in the first place. What was your takeaway from Armageddon, " This movie is terrible because bruce Willis dies on the rock, the plan to blow up the asteroid was obviously evil." The motivation of every dark magic character is always the best ones. Save a son, revive a father, keep a family together, save a country, kill a tyrannical murderer who politically assassinated a regent and attempts to stop the mission to save lives, make my brother walk, rescue a political dissident of a hostile nation who has been imprisoned without trial or appeal so he can aid your people, kill a race of advanced people who limit your technological advancement and territory leading to the death of millions while they enact a kill on sight policy and refuse diplomatic solutions. Let's face it, the path walked by V ultimately is in line with the best interest of humanity as perceived without the knowledge that Calum has learned that primal magic is learnable, something the elves could have tried to teach if they weren't too busy being racist elitists who are willing to ignore the suffering of sentient lives. If dark magic is gasoline then the elves are hoarding the solar panels while a society with wood burning technology suffers in the dark ages and then sikking dragons on them when they advance to coal.
Dark Magic is much like animal testing. not inherintly evil but the ends need to justify the means. Killing the golem to save thousands was justified killing butterfly to look pretty not so much.
It´s not evil, evil, but it has a "corrupting" side to it, it´s prone to escalation and thus thats when it starts to assert itself as really evil compared to reg magic
Ok is viren just like this with power evil and manipulative or is dark magic pulling the strings that much in his turn of evil. I think for me no I rather dark magic given him power and him letting that corrupt him and allowing the dark magic to consume. Tbh isn't like dark magic beckoning him to use it he the one diving deeper into, the dark elf pushing him but not dark magic itself
I would say it is evil and not evil like the force cas in session 3 when Callum crushed raylas moonstone I say it depends on how you uses it so when he crushed the moon stone he used it as a sub element and that's the light side and takeing a creatures sorcey as dark side so really dark magic is the destruction of a primal sorce
I think dark magic is reality humanity's innate magical abilities as we have not seen a non human do dark magic yet. So i think dark magic is simply the essence of humanity if you can think it you can do it as long as you have the right material and training. It's progress magic and the visual affects is simply showing those that use dark magic true intentions because you can always see a person's soul thought their work's.
Aaravos can do dark magic, his little ritual was one of them. He basically created dark magic. Which made me theorized that it's just star magic without a source, he can use all the arcanum because star magic makes him innately talented and when using magic his markings, hair and eyes turn white and glow, when Viren or Claudia use dark magic the opposite happens, their eyes and veins turn black and their hair begins to basically die rather than look bolstered by life energy.
@@xadielplasencia3674 well viren seems to have even getting more evil as the show went on and in the flash back with the magma titan he seemed like a kind person that just wanted to help. Jts implied that dark magic has something to do with his more evil personality. There's more evidence to this because at the end of book 3 after being brought back he looks shocked and confused by what Claudia did and might be having a little regret at his actions almost like the dark magic corruption has left him and he can think clearly once again
@@xadielplasencia3674 it's hard to explain but watch the scene where he gets resurrected and you can see that somethings changed in viren Like he's scared at what's happened and might have some regrets
@@daring6983 yes, but it really depends on how you view plants. in my culture. even the plants have a spirit. so by sacrificing the plant you are still ripping out their soul. that being said. I am aware not all believe this and this is fine.
@@crimsondragon1794 Since I don’t think it’s entirely possible for most people to find out if plants have a soul and I respect other cultures I can come up with other ways that you can get things without killing. Many sheep are Sheard often to their benefit especially in warm climates why not use that wool?
@@daring6983 in this context, because the wool doesn't have magical essence with in it inherently. As dragon prince portrays dark magic, it rips out something vital and deep to power the enchantments, typically by crushing or in Claudia's own words "sqeeuzing it out of them." In this context it can easily infer pulling a soul out of a creature then using that as fuel for magic to make up for what is inherently not there. Like harrow said it is a shortcut. If you use such destructive forces under the justification as it's eaiser or that it is for the better good, it throws everything out of balance. Qfter all even now renewable food and livestock in the real world is causing issues and leads to inhumane practices to meet demand.
I see it as corrupting because you have to sacrifice lives for it. If you were willing to kill one animal for this spell, why not that spell too? It adds on and the next step doesn't look that bad. Yes, it is bad. However, the elves and other magical beings are equally at fault for pushing humans to a point to need it. If dragons/elves disliked it so much, they should have offered to help humans rather than attack.
There are plenty of ways to use this kind of magic without killing or even harming other living creatures. What if you use plants or grass or rocks? What about products people already use like the paper, which comes from trees, everyone uses? Or pieces of an animal that would’ve ended up dead soon anyway? What about shedded fur, feathers, or scales? What about your own hair that you would’ve gotten cut off anyway? Maybe your own spit or nail clippings?
The thing is that, to me, it almost seems like dark magic seems almost more like the misuse and misunderstanding of some other form of power inherent to humans, most likely the ability to bind themselves to a primal magic or much more unlikely some form human power such as psionic or equally esoteric power. One that no one say Aaravos knows of.
One thing that's being forgotten is that dark magic doesn't require the death of magical sapients. Claudia, for a specific example, kills a fawn to restore her brother's ability to walk. I see nothing immoral in that. The resurrection is another matter, as it required the death of another sapient being. An enemy soldier, yes, but still a sapient being. Again, if we pay attention to what is shown and said, Claudia has been using dark magic for years without problems, so clearly it's not inherently corrupting or addictive. It can be used in ways that cause both, but it doesn't appear to be a basic property of the practice.
Concerning the coal vs solar analogy, you seem to intentionally ignore that prior to Soren, humans were only capable of using dark magic, and any human who developed any way of connecting to any source would have set off the same events: the forced migration of humans from elven lands because the elves were not about to tolerate humans getting above their stations. This is the sort of action that leads to resentments. And to pursue your analogy, humans did not reject solar power, they were, so far as anyone had ever been able to determine, physically incapable of developing it. So it was a choice between using fossil fuel technologies or freeze in the dark as oppressed peasants.
In this universe, it would be referred to as white magic and that is technically another form of dark magic.
The use of harmful chemicals is required for the manufacturing of solar panels. No energy source is truly green.
well: that fawn might ben just a fawn: she used for -vitality- but most of Claudia's spell drain magic of elements themselves and those originate from magic creatures. I think the show clearly show us that those creatures have pretty decent intelligence. For example: Bait, Zym, Stella , basically all magical creatures shown in episodes show the skill to understand human speech, even some of them using it themselves so it would be an impossible stretch to say those were not sentient beings. Even the plants Terry uses now: as he says: :are not being controlled, instead they communicate with him, - That makes plants pretty intelligent now, doesn't it? Since when is intelligence level a standard for killing justification even? Another note: Ezren says he can communicate with bugs and -bugs love to gossip- so... That would make even bugs sentient. That pretty much means there is nothing in that world that Claudia can kill that isn't sentient: lol.
Humans weren't entirely to blame for the current situation: Sol Ragem demanded that Ziad and his followers give up dark magic but did not offer an alternative and his tone was hostile and condescending, leaving Ziad feeling he had no choice but to stand his ground. Rayla, on the other hand, was supportive of Calumn's desire to learn Primal Magic: she agreed to make a side trip to get the Key of Aaravos, she forgave his mistakes, their friendship gave him an empathy with magical creature that Viren and Claudia never developed and while Rayla did yell at Calumn for using Dark Magic, she also helped him back to their shelter and stayed at his side until he recovered.
I don't think Dark Magic is evil just because magical creatures die because of the use of it. I mean actually think about it, is killing a magical creature to power a Dark spell for a purpose really any different from us humans hunting and killing animals to feed ourselves? Like you talk about empathy and what not but there's a distinct difference between Rayla, a girl from a species as sapient as humans, and magic animals, creatures who are no different from a chicken, who we humans regularly eat for food. So what real moral quandaries arise?
@@ryancarson6962
3 All of the people we've seen using dark magic started with the noblest of intentions, but, with the exception of Calumn who turned away from it, they have all ended up doing at least as much harm as good.
@@ryancarson6962
2 In book 2 chapter 7 Claudia risked the wrath of her father by letting Ezran and Zym escape to help Soren. In book 2 chapter 9 she healed Soren with a dark magic spell that left her with a white streak and acted notable unhinged. In book 3 chapter 7 she refused to go with him despite his pleads and reasoning. In book 3 chapter 9 she tricked him into thinking he had killed their father and smirked when the deception was relieved.
Clearly dark magic is changing Claudia for the worst.
@@ryancarson6962
1 I don't like comparing the use of dark magic to killing animals for their meat and hides for several reasons, including that you seem to be rationalizing something the series creators see as dangerous, a form of magic that clearly damages the user.
@@ethenallen1388 that's where you are blind to what magic can do...
1. There's a spell that fertilized the earth. Allowing for 10 full kingdoms to be well off for food.
2. You see a lot of dangerous spells and such, however, that is because mages in this show are in constant battle. Over the years I'm sure there were hundreds of Dark magic spells that saved the kingdoms from disaster, time and time again. You kill an innocent creature to save millions more.
3. There's no evidence the change in appearance hurts Viren over the series. It just becomes more present in his body. Almost like getting tan from being out in the sun.
4. Claudia casts a healing spell on Soren. Apparently there's a dedicated list of items that are for healing, coming from the quote, "That's all I had for healing!" So clearly there's a whole archive of different spells for healing.
5. Claudia made Soren able to walk again with a dark magic spell. That alone speaks for itself.
Don't get me wrong. The way it developed through the shows, Viren used it for the worst. But Dark magic is still magic, just for humans. There could have easily been a nice dark magic user in the show. Claudia was one of them, as she didn't really get corrupted by her magic like her father.
“Just like Light. The Darkness is Part of the Natural order of the World. But just because Evil is attracted to it uses it to Hide it doesn’t mean the Darkness it self is Evil.” Quote by Some Guy in a Movie.
i think a lot of the distrust around dark magic being evil is from people's previous understanding of magic systems, there are plenty of magic systems, especially in gaming and tabletop rpg's where the dark evil looking magic isn't inherently evil, it's not a given anymore that a necromancer or witch is evil, bayonetta and similar tropes from japan come to mind as well. the question is what are you really looking at? if it's just killing a deer to heal paralysis, most people would consider that not really "evil". the corrupting influence is more to the side of evil but if someone did it knowing what they were getting into and taking steps to do so as safely as possible or at least making sure the price can be payed without too much going wrong, then it's not really evil anymore. it isn't too clear if the dark magic is really doing the corrupting either, it might do a bit but killing a deer for your brother would mess you up a little bit. until they actually talk about the corruption as its own thing we can't really be sure what the writers meant, because to a lot of people who are very used to dark magic in other things being more neutral get weirded out by how much characters focus on itty bitty insects being sacrificed. there's also just people who own snakes who eat live mice or even just people who own any carnivorous pet. they eat meat. not a big deal. the whole hair turning white looking undead is concerning but sacrificing looks for power isn't "evil" slowly becomming more unhigned still doesn't make it "evil" it just makes it generally a bad idea and not really useful but then the sacrifice just becomes one's sanity which isn't evil, it's just unwieldy. basically magic can't have a morality if it's just a tool that is used, it only can be evil if there's a lot of metaphorical things going on with it. and morality gets pretty complex in general
We must remember this is not an even universe. Humans have been clearly shown to be the oppressed group (kicked out of their homeland, don’t have the same resources/innate power, etc) and magic beings have seemingly fought tooth and nail to keep things that way. So if that means demonizing dark magic and its use, I can’t see why they wouldn’t do that.
Fair point, but I think the fact that it physically harms the user is enough evidence to say that the elves may have a point.
@@alexjewett7455 doesn’t mean they aren’t also using this opportunity as an excuse to kick literally every human including the innocence out of Zadia.
@@daring6983 maybe. But that doesn't mean they weren't right about dark magic being bad. Though, it doesn't justify their actions.
could it be that maybe the current dark magic practitioners are not using magic safely? They could be using spells that are harmful, but dark magic can be safe too.
It’s definitely going to be more nuanced as time goes on. Particularly with the fact even dirt in Xadia is magic. If the problem with dark magic is stealing the life force of creatures, there’s definitely a “vegetarian” alternative to dark magic. Sacrificing magical plants, mushrooms and inorganic things like rocks to fuel your magic instead of sentient magical creatures.
If the problem were the “vegetarian” aspect, I don’t see why magical beings wouldn’t be more hostile to humans simply for eating meat and using animal products.
Conversely, it's not like the elves are staunch vegans -(or at least, they're not depicted as such yet - have we seen any elf food aside from moonberry juice?)- (Nope, Lujanne eats grubs, so no excuse there). Killing animals for meat and fur is fine, but killing animals for magic is not; the only possible rationale I think the writers can make for this is that they see it as some sort of religious wrong, and believe when you do it for magic, it destroys the creature's non-physical spirit or something.
@@DJstarrfish I’d lean into the spiritual/religious angle on it, which possibly also informs the bias the magical creatures have towards humans. How much of their hatred of dark magic is because of the properties of it, and how much of their hatred instead comes from the fact that they don’t think humans should be able to use magic at all? Like seriously how is Callum the only human to have primal magic? If the humans used to live alongside the elves, why has no elf ever taught a human how to connect to a primal source? They just took for granted that humans cannot use magic, and are not supposed to use magic.
the cube (or key) destroy that concept of you... since different creature has different tipy of magic, it probably will create different dark spells, so no.
@@DJstarrfish Dark magic destroys spirit of a sacreficed in a ritual creature and also mental and physical health of the one that performs ritual. We can see Claudia's memory and space orientation is altered and even a bit of her hair turns white
Clean energy is a good example, dark magic is like fossil fuels in that it's a short term solution. Primal magic is the better route. Problem is that it's never been an option for humans, human primal mages clearly weren't a thing before Callum. The elves have basically hoarded all the solor panels and wind mills for themselves and then complain (or firebomb) when humans choose to crunch up unicorn antlers so their kids can keep warm in the winter.
This is such an on-point analogy.
A lot has been brought up, so I'll do one myself. Viren and Claudia are often victims of circumstance, and their magical route only is an outlet. Viren, for example, has had a lot of negatives happen to him. From losing his wife, multiple friends, the King and more.. Yet through all of it, up until the start of the series, he always had good intentions. Saving lives, avenging those who were lost to provide closure, that kinda thing.
I'd honestly argue Harrow is the one to partially blame, for Viren's true fall: He treated him like scum, like one lower than himself, in the moments of Viren offering to give his OWN life in trade for Harrow survival. Yet, Harrow treats him, as said, like a pest. This leads Viren down the path he takes.
Such also leads Claudia, one loyal to her father, down the SAME negative path. She's been there to help, save lives, heal, and follow orders. Ones, which she questions, may I add.
TLDR, Viren and Claudia would have ended up fine, had certain situations not doomed them.
Exactly 💯
Also, something tells me that Viren may have a redemption arc this season, or the next.
I don't think it's 100% evil 100% of the time
Like how Viren ended a famine, healed Soren from that deadly disease that had no medicine to deal with it properly, how Claudia healed Soren's paralysis and Claudia made both pancakes and coffee
Also, Smarty Pants, you don't have to like Dark magic but I think you're missing the point of the show: when it comes to a lot of problems in life,it takes two to tango.
By not seeing the gray areas of morality, you're not helping in the long run. Sol Regem called humans "lesser beings", the elves of the past and present don't care if humans go extinct tomorrow, the detractors of Dark Magic are NOT vegan (which by the way, it is possible to be a vegan in medieval times), Harrow's political reputation would have been damaged since the reason Dark magic was used to clean up Harrow's impulsive deal to put his own citizens in danger while helping another kingdom with a famine (Sarai did not seem to understand that people starve to death after 3 weeks, so "decades of hard work" would not mean much to dead people and the living relatives of those dead people). Our first introduction of elves is a bunch of adults breaking into someone's house to kill a child and his father (while none of those elves apologize) and of course, an elf saving a dragon that set fire to a town of innocent humans
Yes, but the dragon only attacked because Soren shot it. Its not that dark magic is immoral, its that it is a corrupting influence and damages your psychical and mental health. Yes, the humans are oppressed, but let's not forget that they caused the extinction of the unicorns. We have seen from Callum that they can master an Arcanum if they try hard enough. By trying to bring morality back into the discussion, you aren't really helping either.(no offence, just pointing it out)
@@gamergod8538 the Unicorns that haven't been mentioned at all in the actual show beyond showing a horn. their involvement is suspect at best as that information was only revealed in a book that covered the first season years after the first season was out and done. Adding to this that the blub was written by Aaravos and would be suspect by default. One shouldn't need to read alternate media to gain critical plot information about a show, especially not a retelling of the first season. So if it wasn't important enough to put in the show then I'm inclined to disregard it entirely.
Also Callum is a rare human in regards to his ability to learn the arcanum. THe Showrunners mentioned only 1 in every 100 humans or so can accomplish such a feat. that's just learning the arcanum, and doesn't mention actually learning magic. There are very few dark mages to begin with and so there would be even fewer human primal mages, as it's just that much harder to actually learn and you might not even be capable of it even if you wanted to learn primal magic. Plus Primal stones, the only other means of learning primal magic are super rare and no human knows how to make them.
As for the dragon. It was flying in Human territory, and constantly flying above that one town sowing terror and scaring everyone for 3 days straight without at least trying to announce it's intentions. They had every right to attack it in an attempt to get it to leave then citizens alone. the only thing Soren did wrong was underestimate His forces chances against a dragon. Even then, We got a really good look at why Dark Magic is Humanity's saving grace. That town was helpless against a lesser dragon until a Dark Mage brought it down.
@@gamergod8538 Callum is he first human to master Arcanum. If "trying hard enough" was all it takes someone else would have done that centuries ago.
based King Chad here is your crown 👑
What would be more immoral. Killing to use magic, or using magic to kill
It seems that the creators DO want us to believe that Dark Magic is inherently bad. Or at least, something that is too powerful for humans to fully understand and control, as shown by how it transforms Claudia's and Viren's physical appearances.
That said, we can also tell the creators understand the complexities of humans' motives for using it. I don't agree that the humans going after the Magma Titan was an inherently "evil" or "wrong" thing to do. That was a decision Harrow and the neighboring kingdoms made for the survival of their people --- nothing more, nothing less. It had consequences, but that's with anything in life.
Ultimately the Elves and Dragons wanted to condemn the humans for using Dark Magic, but didn't bother trying to help them in any way --- at least based on what we know of the lore. They basically said, "Find your own way to survive. Oh, but not like that!" And I think that's why a lot of the fandom wants to argue that Dark Magic is not inherently bad. Because ultimately, it's about using resources for survival. Characters like Viren may get greedy and not know when to stop, but Dark Magic can be and has been used for good things.
Like I mentioned above though, and as you discussed, that form of magic does appear to have actual corrupting effects, at least on the surface. At this point it's unclear whether it has any negative physical or mental health impacts on the person using it. Hopefully in the coming seasons we'll learn more about it and its origins.
The argument of corruption is maybe a bit superficial. I think that Viren's "corruption" is not due to dark magic but to the various elements we see building up during the show, such as Harrow humiliating him, his genuine efforts being dismissed and him being characterised as "evil" (in a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of way). Same goes for Claudia with who she saw as her friends leaving her and going against what she sees as a moral authority, her father. As for Aaravos, I don't think he's fully evil at all, but much more of a grey character. I mean he obviously has done bad things but so have the elves and magical creatures we are supposed to see as "good". Sol Regem trying to burn an entire city to the ground? Thunder killing three queens for wanting to save their people? Elves assassinating a king and his *infant* son as revenge? These are only some of the things we actually see on screen, so imagine what we don't. The xadians often come off as dogmatic supremacists, borderline racists who believe humans should "stay in their natual place" (which is of course lesser than the great, noble, magical elves). Aaravos gives off Luciferian vibe as an angel/elf rebelling against their dogmatic culture/God of natural hierarchy and knowing your place, in search of knowledge/power. And about the fossil fuel analogy, I don't think it can be applied. First of all, it's not like magical butterflies are in risk of extinction. There is an extremely limited number of dark magic users who would never be enough to cause some kind of mass extinction or "climate change". Furthermore, they are not living in the modern world but in a more primitive setting of constant rivalry and war. Not using dark magic while your hostile neighbours who hate you and see you as lesser beings have magic would be willingly letting them have their way and subjugate you whenever you want. What would stop the elves and Thunder to destroy and enslave all human kingdoms? Clearly, from what we have seen, a one elf is enough to go through a whole castle and kill a king, and that dragon could face whole armies without dark magic.
I think dark magic isn’t inherently evil, but has a massive potential to be. Ziard (first human mage) and Callum both used it to save people they cared about, and didn’t become evil. People kill and eat animals to survive. People even skin certain animals because it looks fashionable. Dark magic is like that, but simply using the magic within a creature. Now, of course, dark magic IS indeed a very slippery slope, but CAN be good as long as it is managed carefully and used responsibly. It was used to save many lives, and create a beautiful city. Ziard sucking the magic out of the Phoenixes was not evil, he was trying to save the innocent people that Sol Regem was going to kill. Being the Dragon King does not necessarily make you good. Clearly, Sol Regem hates dark magic, but is willing to kill innocents out of spite and just for getting in his way.
A better name for Dark magic would be Life Magic because it draws magical power from living organisms.
A better name would be blood magic as it kills the living for power. We have never seen it draw power from the living but only seen it consume life for power. It is the Dark Side in every sense.
Yeah
Ehhh I'd argue entropy and read mage the ascension
I like the concept of the name but dont like the word used
Alchemy suits better in my opinion.
In my opinion, dark magic is about sacrifice, give and take. The problem is that the characters does not seem to grasp this concept completely. Claudia focus more on what she can take with dark magic, and not what she has to give. Harrow is unwilling to give anything because he had to give up his wife to save everyone else. He is unreluctant to use dark magic because since he does not want to give so he cant take. And finally Viren. The thing that caused him down a dark path is his final talk with the king. Viren was willing to give anything to the king. He even decided to give his life to save the king, but when he was about to, Harrow treated Viren as a servant. That broke him because all this time he was willing to give anything to the king because to him it was giving to someone he loves and adores. When he believes that Harrow does not feel the same way, it broke him. Viren no longer thinks about what he can give to others, but he now thinks about what he can take.
love your sensible take
6:14 I mean I have to disagree with you on that one. I feel what they did was in the right (killing the fire golem). like first off killing it saved thousands of lives from starvation and two while yes they did kill off the last remaining fire golem here’s the thing, it was the Last remaining fire golem. Saying there’s one left of the species is pretty much saying the species is dead, it had no chance of bringing its species back and it would have died a sad lonely death, at least they allowed it to die fighting/an honorable death and again in turn allowed its death to have meaning, saving thousands.
Firstly, it was a Magma Titan, not a fire golem.
Second, we don't know if Avizandium would have given help had they asked because they never asked.
Third, I'm of the opinion that Saria was worried about the long-term consequences of invading Xadia to kill one of its creatures and, considering what almost happened, I think her concerns were valid.
Sarai's concern was valid but she didn't seem to understand that decades of hard work mean nothing to 100,000 people who have starved to death in 3weeks
If Viren said/did nothing, Harrow's political reputation would have damaged for making that impulsive deal in the first place. No one would trust Harrow again
Also, the dragons in the present have made it pretty clear that they don't care about humankind,even if Dark magic wasn't around in the first place
Do you know how thay reproduce ?
@@Owudukan even if he could reproduce its literally 1 life vs 10,000
@@ethenallen1388 Yea, problem with that is Thunder wasn't much of a talker. He automatically attacks anyone trying to cross the border. It's really hard to flag the dragon down to talk to him when He's murdering you with all powerful lightning that can and has scattered an entire army. Thunder has a dread reputation in the Human's lands for a very good reason. He wouldn't allow them the chance to speak and so they dont even ponder giving that a chance.
And Sarai was Naïve at best. If they hadn't killed the titan and performed the spell, Harrow''s kingdom would have suffered horrible losses to starvation. And when people start dying due to hunger... that tends to have bad consequences for the Nobility. Like... rebellions and the removal of the royal line Consequences. more so if they leaned that Harrow had a chance to avoid all this by either not helping Duren, or not killing one Magma Titan and solving the issue.
I think that it's a problem with the writing that the show clearly WANTS us to think of dark magic as evil through how it's framed, but I also think it's pretty obvious that there are ways to side step any moral quandaries that using dark magic would create. Human's could create sustainable farms that grow and raise things that they could use for magic.
I don't believe that Dark magic is a corrupting influence as you stated. Aaravos is meant to be a mysterious figure. It's not supposed to be revealed to us yet why he is the way he is, but I think it makes perfect sense for Claudia and Viren to go down their paths based on their own up bringing and history. Claudia didn't START learning dark magic at the start of the show. She was raised to study it and think using it is fine the same way a child growing up on a farm slaughtering chickens thinks it's fine. You're theory that Viren's wife left him because she saw him as becoming evil and corrupted doesn't work if she insisted that her children stay with him. (Unless she just didn't care about her kids. That part's not clear) It seems like Viren and his wife had a normal divorce where they just incompatible.
You brought up that Dark magic could be a perfect allegory for fossil fuels and I don't think that's the case. Green energy has been making advancements ALONG SIDE fossil fuels for a long time. We've known how water and wind can be used to harness energy for many years. In the show, Calum alone JUST discovered that humans learning magic is possible. Giving up a power source when no one yet knows of any alternatives is not a great way to move along humanity. And the human need some type of power source to stand on equal footing with the rest the magical creatures. Which leads me to my next point.
I think the reason why humans were forbidden to use dark magic wasn't because it was inherently evil. When viewing the flashback to the origin of dark magic the problem the dragon brought up was hierarchy. The dragons didn't want humans to use dark magic because their society was built on an unfair hierarchy that placed humans on the bottom for being magicless. They didn't want humans moving up to become equals.
I'm fully aware that this poor show has been jerked around by the studio and what we're getting is not what the writers originally wanted to make if they had their way from the start. I'm also aware that the show isn't over and my issues might get addressed as time goes by. But a major problem I have with it is that it's framing that some things are wrong, or unjustified but given thought. Maybe they are.
I completely disagree that the dragon "knew what was up." No, he didn't. He said humans were lower creatures and said he was going to destroy an entire town so that they wouldn't use magic. He is the bad guy here, plain and simple. If your first act is to kill an entire city because a few mages you don't like exist, you need to be killed because you are the problem.
Also, I disagree that dark magic is corrupting. People just go down a dark spiral like this sometimes. I honestly feel like the signs were all there from the beginning. Anyone can go down a spiral-like that, especially with the events going on in her life. Even if she didn't use dark magic and she had to kill those deer or that soldier in a Frankenstein-like experiment to help her family she would be down the same path. Saying that dark magic is "corrupting" is just ignoring the story these characters are going through and how a person would naturally react to it.
Actually, that Frankenstein idea brings up a much better question, what if this was about modern tech? If Viren shot the dragon with a modern anti artillery canon and killed it that way, nothing would change, other than the reason they would need the heart and him stealing the dragon egg for power. Which he was about to destroy before he was reminded that it could be useful, so dark magic actually saved Zim there. I mean, Viren wasn't even going to use magic to kill the egg. He was going to bash it with a stick until an elf told him how much power he could gain.
I see dark magic like nuclear power. I fully believe that nuclear power is a good thing, that could help a lot of people. But I will not deny that nuclear bombs have been used for atrocities against both man and nature, much worse than anything dark magic has done. But we can not say that nuclear power is bad just because so many people "go mad" from the power having a nuke gives them. Kim Jong and Putin can threaten innocent people with nuclear annihilation, that doesn't make nuclear power itself evil. If they had anything else just as powerful, they would use it just the same.
Also, calling dark magic "fossil fuels" just isn't right. They mention that even dragon snot is powerful. This means that any magic sheep can be sheered for reliable dark magic. Any old scales that fall off a dragon could be used as extremely powerful magic. Hell, even dragon crap is probably perfect for dark magic fertilizer. You can use it without hurting any creatures. So, it is actually a renewable resource you can easily farm. Hell, Viren was growing butterflies, which I could argue is a sustainable agriculture practice.
When I first started watching the show, I was immediately suspicious of the reasons why Xadia were so opposed to dark magic, sure it wasn't as nice as the other magics but honestly for humans who couldn't use magic, how else were they supposed exist in a world so dominated by magic. There was enough justification for it being labeled as bad for me to roll with it but it just struct me as odd. And I felt my suspicions were confirmed when we finally saw the confrontation between Sol Ragem and Ziad. In this confrontation we see Sol Ragem demand that Ziad cease the use dark magic based on the reasoning that killing magical creatures is wrong but then immediately having no qualms with destroying an entire city. "You are inferior creatures", that line confirmed my thoughts, this wasn't about dark magic being inherently 'evil'; this was about power, and for dragons and elves to have supremacy over the world and over humans. Sol Ragem did have a problem with killing, he just wanted control.
Now I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent but this got me thinking whether or not Thunder supported this line of thinking. On the one hand he did go through with Sol Ragem's intentions by exiling humans to one half of the continent; however I find it hard to believe that Thunder, the dragons, and the elves, couldn't have just annihilated all humans entirely. That power seems available to them and humans were still in the early stages of using dark magic and probably couldn't have resisted (they did get exiled to one half of the continent after all and had no ways of crossing with just Thunder guarding the border). This almost seems like a kind of mercy from Thunder; I wonder if Thunder was actually sympathetic to the humans and felt some kind of compassion for them, maybe not thinking that dark magic was good, but that at least humans were understandable for turning to it. Perhaps the only reason he exiled humans was because he couldn't be seen as immediately overturning Sol Ragem's final commands as king of dragons immediately after taking the role, and for political reasons since most dragons and elven kingdoms would have been outraged both at the use of dark magic and Sol Ragem's injury, therefore having to take action against the humans but being unwilling to commit a genocide (this could have also been a possible reason since genocide would have made Xadia's stance that dark magic = bad hypocritical). I'm kinda curious if the show will look back and Thunder and his reasoning and position on the events that unfolded because his actions don't necessarily tell me that he truly hated dark magic in the same way that Sol Ragem would (Sol Ragem would definitely have eliminated most if not all humans if he had his way). We'll see if the show does look back or not.
To me it's not that dark magic is bad so much as it is addictive, just like fossil fuels. It doesn't require the time and effort Calumn invested in connecting to the Sky Arcanum and one can use it to cast powerful spells. I believe that's what the series creators are trying to tell us.
eh no? dark magic is harder than other tipy of magic... in the fact that dark magic required a medium form which absorb magic, rather than use the stuff that is already around you. dark magic require time and effort since it need rituals rather than runes, so no. how did you end in that conclusion?
@@poijnve3912 How about the fact that, prior to Calumn breaking that Primal Stone, no human had attempted to connect with one of the Primal Sources in longer than anyone was aware of?
If it was easy then why did Ziad dig in his heels with Sol Regem?
Why didn't Sol Regem point out that humans could use Primal Magic instead of calling them lesser creatures?
@@ethenallen1388 idk bais? other stuff? dark magic cast are more complex than what "normal" magic has to do....
also calumn is an expectation for the rule as in general.
@@poijnve3912
1 Have you ever heard of proof reading?
2 Wouldn't pulling magic from a "medium" be easier than trying to attune with the original source?
3 If connecting to the Primal Sources was easy for humans, why were Lugaen and Ibis so dismissive about Calumn's desire to learn Primal Magic?
4 Did you find that convoluted explanation as to why dark magic is harder than Primal Magic on an official Dragon Prince web site, book or graphic novel, or did you just make it up because it suits what you want to believe.
No, dark magic is definitely easier. Callum can use it immediately after a couple of hours mx with Claudia’s spellbook and he also didn’t need a medium (if I remember correctly it’s been a while since I watched the show). And even if it IS easy for humans to connect with the primal sources ( I don’t think it is since that blind pirate needed to spend decades on the sea before he had what was possibly a connection to a primal source) The elves actually refused to try and teach any human magic. And if dark magic is harder than why experiment and learn dark magic exists in the first place?? So yeah dark magic has to be easier or the humans deliberately created a magic that is harder to master.
Personally, I think up until it's revealed that humans, rather than having no magic and are instead UNRESTRICTED in the pursuit of learning magic, ark magic had every right to be used. It allowed th to play on a relatively equal playing field. But now that caelum has shown that humans can learn any and theoretically all magic, it's not so good anymore
I think it's just the overall pride between both groups. Humans were tired of being lesser, the other magical beings didn't like that they were doing that, especially when they were using dark magic. So they retaliate with more dark magic because they wanted to be seen as equals but had no alternative because they (other magical beings) didn't give them an alternative because they may not have wanted humans to be equal to them.
Dark magic does indeed feel like a step humanity felt they had to take to achieve equality because the magical creatures looked down on them, and still look down on them. Callum is proof humans CAN use primal magic, but the magical creatures are so insistent that humans cannot. It’s like they never bothered to actually see if humans could actually be magic or not. They were content accepting humans were inferior and got mad when humans were upset about it.
@@IceFireofVoid I also don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibilitie that there any humans they(dragons and elves) heard of humans achieving in the past (using primal magic) were quickly killed so that dragons and elves didn’t lose their advantage and wouldn’t have to admit they were not superior.
I’d counter that by saying it’s the cycle of vengeance and struggle for power that corrupts.
We clearly see at the beginning the first to attack because of dark magic were the dragons, weather out of dogmatic a hatred for dark magic or anything humans produce or a simple fear of losing their dominance and having the balance of power shifted out of their favor (or perhaps something that will be revealed later which would change my mind). Humans are seen using dark magic to protect themselves, a one life for thousands sort of deal, so either those who have inherent magic either are afraid of losing their power or simply have a hatred for hatred’s sake (or again there could be something we don’t know yet).
I also feel the fossil fuel analogy just doesn’t fit, as this would only harm the user and the life that was taken if not for the clear aggression of dragons and elves against any who would use it or even stand to benefit from it. And if it’s merely to protect life, why wouldn’t the dragons and elves try to destroy humanity for eating meat or using animal products?
i know this is old... but killing something to eat is not the same as killing it with dark magic... killing it with dark magic destroys its soul killing it for food does not..
The dragon it makes it seem a part of it being they don't want humans who are not of magic using it. Not that it got out of hand yet but just because of bias from what was seen so far
Yeah same feeling, the dragons/elves reasoning seemed off to me, they’re other argument was also seemed off with the whole “it uses living things” like is it so different as opposed to using living things for food (have the time they don’t even need the living animal just a body part) like if it was more it destroys part of the soul entirely removing it from reincarnation or something that would be different but they just say it uses living things. And like you said we see the more harsher/extreme side to it but they only saw it prior to being out of hand or the like
@@christopherauzenne5023 not to mention they have said you can do things with just parts of creatures. You can do magic with a horn, scales, even just dragon snot. You can't tell me that drawing the magic out of snot uses up the dragon's life force.
Yeah, it looked like a "Holier than thou" kind of attitude on the part of dragons/elves.
For me dark magic in dragon Prince is like fel în Warcraft. Addictive, can be use in both bad and good ways, and even demon hunter and warlock admited that this magic can corrupt. Both fel and dark magic Requeire sacrifice, souls, essences etc.
Kael thas is a prime example, before fel he wasnt paranoide, or evil. Yes, he had a addiction for magic after the sunwell destroction, but only using arcane to feed, IT was enough and didnt create futhermore addiction. After he take a bite of fel, he wanted more that leads to join the legion.
In their nature, both dark magic and fel(as well void) are evil, but there are ways that can be used for good. Still there is always the problem that the magic will corrupt the user(dark magic/fel) and leads him to a darker path
For all the contrived nonsense of WoW's plot, I think they do a better job with fel magic than The Dragon Prince currently does with dark magic. In the game, there are a lot of warlocks and demon hunters that are portrayed as heroic, despite walking a razor's edge with the nature of their powers. The older in-game flavor text says it best: When the Burning Legion invaded, many people turned to the Light for protection. The warlocks were the ones who chose to fight fire with fire.
So far, in The Dragon Prince, dark mages are portrayed as unambiguously villains. The show is leaning pretty hard into the "this magic Jesus, this other magic Satan, no exceptions" fantasy trope that I really hate. Even in the one or two cases shown so far when dark magic is used for noble ends, it is later shown to be "bad" in the long run. Maybe other seasons will expand on this, though, idk.
To me dark magic is not inheritly good or evil but requires sacrifice to use it. The over use of dark magic results in horrible appearance and effects. Look at the orb of storm isn't that dark magic but not inhumane
people when someone kills a bug in dragon prince: NO
people when someone kills a chicken irl: eh
I don't think dark magic is evil. For one thing the elves and dragons hated that the humans were killing living creatures to power spells, then I guess the humans should just stop eating fish, cattle, eggs, and anything else that kills an animal. Humans need protein and while we can make substitutes now, there was a lot fewer options in ancient times. Also, the humans did not need to kill the creature, just a part of it can work. Take the dragon horn, a small piece was able to make a bridge over lava to allow 2 entire army to cross probably days apart. As for the corrupting part, I say they look like that is because using such a large spell takes part of their vitality or life force to power and if they do those types of spells to many times then they will die. Viren used the butterflies to look normal but the scars of healing his son remained even years after showing that using such spells will cause permanent damage to the caster. As for why humans turned to dark magic, the dragons and elves showed little care for humans and even saw them as lesser beings. In real history one thing always happened with that mindset, slavery. It probably won't show such a thing in the show (right now I haven't finished the new season) but I would not be surprised that the elves had human slaves, after all they would be cheap labor to build their grand cities and they had nothing to fight back with; even the best human warrior can't defeat the elves with their magic and weapons. To fight back humans learned dark magic and properly build their civilization before the story was shown. As for it being corrupting, yes absolutely; but that is true for most powers dark magic just makes the signs physical.
Id argue that Dark magic wasn't the cause of the problems you brought up: those where caused by the elves and dragons attempting to commit genocide on humanity simply because the where using dark magic period. Not because of any negative effects of the dark magic itself.
Is dark magic to blame for that? Or is it the result of the biases and prejudices of elves/dragons? I argue almost all the later vs the former.
Dark magic did not force the elves/dragons to attempt to exterminate humanity (or later successfully partition them off in the continent) : they chose to do that of their own free will, and I feel blame lies fully on them in that respect.
Honestly I feel the dark magic isn’t “evil” but addictive like a drug. I would more compare it to a medical drug like opium that when some people used it became addicted and started abusing it to the point they couldn’t live without it. This can be further seen in the descent of those who use it, Claudia and Verin, who used it and became addicted over time and repetitive use resulting in that addiction changing and consuming them. This magic can be used for good and to help, but with the freedoms that magic has comes the cost that it has to be used sparingly as to prevent people from becoming an addict who only thinks of their next fix.
I think as long as the mage isn't killing something to cast a spell, magic creature are indifferent to dark magic techniques. Runan did use the "crush magic thing to make magic spell happen" thing in episode 1, he just used a moon opal instead of a magical creature
I didn’t think dark magic was evil. Its overuse causes a constant physical change for the user but it is only a sign of evil in pop culture. The series does not show that this is corruption of evil. In the series, the price of dark magic is criticized but sacrificing a deer for a man is not evil. Magic animal body parts and plants are the most common secrefice but it alone is no worse than hunting, raising animals or tearing off a single flower.
The conflict may have started with magic but it was not the magic itself that was the cause but the goal they wanted to achieve. If Harrow had allowed the inhabitants of the other country to starve, this would not have happened but the king pulled himself a terrible situation. (Honestly, a king would protect his own people first and then others. Harrow, on the other hand, would have left fifty thousand of his own people to starve for nothing.) There was no good solution here. Sure, they could have asked for help from the elves but I don’t think they would have helped.
Aaravos is a master of all 6 primary magics. But he, too, was born with only one so he could create the dark magic to get the other five. (Which is unnatural for an elf, but not for a man, I think.)
Overall, the dark magic in the series is evil but so far it has tried to justify it in a way that doesn’t show it that way for me.
Is there confirmation that Aaravos invented Dark Magic before mastering the other Primal Sourses?
It seems to me that he would have masters all six Arcanums, but they weren't enough to feed his growing ambition, so he invented Dark Magic.
@@ethenallen1388 theres a poem that had been released around the time of season 2 or 3 that mentioned that Aaravos was the 'Midnight Star' of Elarion(the first major human city which was also nearly destroyed by Sol Regem) and it was implied he brought dark magic to them(which is also implied to be the reason he was imprisoned).
He actually mastered the others first I think, and created dark magic in collaboration with humans back in Elarion. Cuz he can seamlessly use regular sun and sky spells without needing components(unless he uses himself as the component).
If Viren had stopped after using dark magic to break the famine, it might have been OK, but he went on to convince Harrow that they had to use dark magic to kill a dragon that was just defending his territory, which led him to betraying Harrow's son and everything else he did.
If Claudia had stopped after using dark magic to heal Soren, it would have been OK, but she continued to go deeper, has killed a fellow human to resurrect her father, and she'll probably do worse in the seasons to come.
Only Calumn was able to use dark magic once, then find another way to do things.
When I saw this video’s title and thumbnail I was like “hold on, is there new info on TDP?” And proceeded to check Netflix and then the internet to find nothing. Fun times
Saying dark magic is inherently bad is like saying organ transplants are bad. In the way its used in the show its like if you took someones organs without their consent, meanwhile the practice can and does save lives. The problem with dark magic in the show is that they do not respect the sentient creatures used for it and see them like animals or fuel to be used.
5:50 Claudia said her parents fought a lot and that her father is "intense" kind implying that he was an abusive husband.
If you don't like how "The Dragon Prince" portrays it, you may prefer "The Untamed/The Founder of Diabolism/The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation."
So it is wrong to use because it will make dragon attack humans. That's a problems because of the dragons not dark magic. That is like saying sign languages are bad because it will make hearing people mad.
Now the fossil fuel is on the right track but with FF we have more advanced ways to make power now, but is the green version for humans? Sustainable dark magic where they grow and farm the materials they need. There is primal magic but only Callum can use it we don't yet know why him and how repeatable it is. Humans would be the equivalent to a 3rd world country that has no good place for hydro power and solar. What green option is left for them?
For the corruption, Would Viren still do evil things if say he knew primal magic?
Well. That dragon that threatened that early human city. Because it threatened a power balance between the human and the elves. Also it seems humans where forces into less hospitable lands. Not to munchkin it seems dark magic is nich and also there neighbors who have forced them onto this land has ignored and chance of aid and trade. I wouldn't want a all powerful war machine over my head that could destroy your whole city just because they felt a little threatened
The concept of dark magic isn't inherently wrong. In some ways, of course, it can be seen as hunting for food or warmth, the concept of trading a non-sentient life to benefit more lives. My problem with dark magic is gradually gets more and more corrupting. Using dark magic instantly puts a 'smell' on you, something that taints you, which is never a good sign. Even Callum used it once, and it seemed like he almost died because of it. My point is, dark magic just demands more and more. I'm sure the first practitioners never saw dark magic, which was seen as a beacon of hope, causing the extinction of the benevolent unicorns. It ultimately corrupts, like for Viren, and possibly even Claudia.
I don’t think the old dragon king hating dark magic was more a excuse because he hated humans from the start
I believe if Dark Magic users used their own life force rather than others, it could be considered good.
I mean the whole “using the lives of other creatures” sounds bad on paper until you realize isn’t us using animals for food the same basic idea? And half the time they don’t even need the living thing they can just use the tail of a newt or the like. Any thoughts?
@@christopherauzenne5023 And couldnt they use the life force of plants or something?
Like in Avatar where hama bended the water from the plants.
@@christopherauzenne5023 Exactly. People in the Dragon Prince keep saying the using animals for Dark magic is wrong and yet no one who hates Dark magic is a vegan,so they don't have a leg to stand on
@@DragonGoddess18 it not the same, killing for eating and killing for commodity are 2 different stuff... it not the same human dont need magic to live, they need to eat
I think they do, Viren's fucked up form where his eyes are black and he looks all veiny and grey is his true form. He hides it with magic. So it's likely that it truly does drain the users life force as payment for dabbling with magic without any connection to the source arcanum.
Green energy analogy fits better than you think. Modern "green" energy is not sustainable and cannot really replace fossil fuels or nuclear power - it's unreliable, requires very non-green components for generators, and wears down too quickly. It sounds cool and good, but it does not solve the problem. Fossil fuels are still essential and would be for some time no matter how much you want to believe otherwise.
Same with dark magic - only one human so far managed to learn arcana, and we don't even know if it's a fluke or could be replicated, and humans in DP need magic for their civilization to function as much as we need energy for ours. It may be evil, but it's a necessary evil.
Dark Magic is not necessarily 'EVIL' it takes it toll on the user based on what is required to weld it
The problem is humans had to use it. As the fire King of dragon said, humans were just animals to the dragons and elves. Humans could never survive in a world full of magic
to me dark magic always looked like the lazy way to do magic i.e. "I don't have magic so I'll take it from some one else" callum does the work to develop magic and is rewarded you have to do the hard work!
I honestly think the Fossil Fuels analogy is a great comparison.
It was necessary to give humans the chance they needed to progress, but each use of it comes at the cost of something and someone.
And honestly, I agree with what King Harrow said. It's a shortcut.
Callum demonstrated that humans, while not born with an Arcanum, are capable of figuring out their own connection to the primal source.
Callum once said, "There's nothing inside me." But I argue that this "nothing" is actually a vacant space that can be filled with anything.
It takes work and hard studies, but I think that a human can theoretically learn any practice of magic they want with enough time & effort.
Dark Magic is the easy way to magic, built on the sacrifices of other living things. It also seems like a distortion of magic that's twisting it to do things it wasn't meant to do, like moders & hackers tampering with a game's code. It sounds fun, but the game was not designed to do such things.
Like a LOT of people in the comments, I think that it is more complex to that. Yes, Aaravos, Claudia, and Viren have done evil with dark magic. But for Ziard we so far have no proof of him being evil or corrupt. We will probably learn as the story continues if he did do so, but until then we only have him killing a flock of birds and blinding Sol Regem (a dragon which is clearly arrogant considering he sees humans as "lesser beings") to save probably thousands of people. There is definitely more to that in of itself so far Ziard seems to have only done good with Dark Magic. Really so far, aside from a few cases, the creatures used in dark magic have been non-sentient, which in a large portion of society wouldn't be seen as evil since its comparable to eating meat or using furs to make clothing.
I'm probably going to get some backlash for saying this too, but I don't think "Green Energy" sources is a good example of how to explain it, at least not how you explain it. First off, humans can't use magic like elves, Callum being the only exception. So, it would be like us complaining about the Victorians using fossil fuels when they had not developed the know-how for more clean sources of energy. Second (and I know some people will dislike this) what often is seen as "Green Energy" is rarely as clean as one might think. Sure, they aren't pumping out black smoke clouds, but they still cause pollution, whether it be air pollution from wind turbines, the pollution from the batteries needed to store solar energy, or the negative effects on river wildlife from hydroelectric dams. This can still work how you describe it with that knowledge, but only by factoring in that, while non-dark magic is not meant to be harmful, you can still use it to do evil acts. Just because fire magic does not have dark and purple coloring or takes the essence of living creatures, you can still use it to cause massive destruction. Even something that could seem as harmless as healing magic can be bad if you use it to save someone who will do evil things.
Overall, while yes Dark Magic can be a corrupting influence on people, to say that it only leads to corruption is oversimplified. It's very much like power in itself. Yes, many people are corrupted by it but that does not mean everyone who has ever had power became corrupt. So, I would say that while dark magic is definitely not preferable and has large problems, there is cause to say that it can be used for good, and that that good does not always end up being evil.
I totally agree on your points about “Clean Energy.” The concept sounds nice and clean, but it’s a complicated mess that ultimately does more harm than good in its current implementation,
Wind turbines are notoriously fragile, all things considered. They also are bird killers and normally emit a frequency that’s uncomfortable to the ears. If the turbine stops spinning, they actually need GAS to get it started up again. Disposing of the blades is also a giant headache, and those blades need constant maintenance to run just right. Even then the lifespan is pretty low. So Wind energy is finicky, an eyesore, a bird killer, and has a carbon footprint.
Solar’s problem is the energy storage isn’t there yet. I can see it okay for minor appliances on houses or buildings, but no way would I trust it only. Similar issues with solar panels being costly and filled with a bunch of chemicals and items that are ultimately not recyclable. Plus a lot of the necessary minerals needed for production are dangerous and exploitive of third world countries.
I honestly would liken Dark Magic to nuclear energy if we wanna keep the analogy. Effective and relatively safe, but needs strong guardrails to keep from ‘overheating.’ Given developing technology and standards, nuclear is actually the safest and most efficient energy source. The only reason it has a bad rep is from disasters where 1) people purposefully screwed up (Chernobyl) or 2) forces beyond human control (like Fukushima).
You're right about all of this
There's more nuance to Dark Magic in the Dragon Prince than most people want to acknowledge. Sometimes, something is a problem if one chooses to see it as a problem.
Veeerrry late to this discussion, but I wanted to add my piece:
I like that you mentioned Viren and Claudia’s sense of security in dark magic. Unlike the natural magic, dark magic *takes* power. Using she six natural types relies on the sources to guide you (Callum described the sky archanum as wind and him being the sail, so I think something similar can apply for the other five), but dark magic commands things. Another small detail: natural magic uses a word or two, but dark magic has a whole chant (needing more to control vs. letting a power flow kind of)- not sure if it actually means something, but I thought it was neat. But back to the point, when Callum used dark magic, it was him giving up on sky magic- resorting to a different, more attainable power when trusting an existing one eludes you.
The the,e very starkly reminds me of Christianity tbh (and I guess Judaism too since it’s not really needing Jesus for the comparison- though I guess you could make a case for Zym lol). The dragons are God, the elves are angels, and Aaravos is the Devil (an angel who was cast out for doing evil). It’s not perfectly analogous, obviously, since humans and angels aren’t racist toward each other, God doesn’t humanity, etc., but still. Aaravos, though having the star archanum, decided to use dark magic instead, going against the dragons’ rule, then giving that same power to humans, which causes them to be sent out of Xadia (serpent giving the fruit to Adam and Eve, let get cart out of the Garden of Eden). Humans have been told dark magic is the only way to have power, and they keep using it because, well, no one likes feeling powerless. And when Callum learns about the true way of magic and wants to use it and not dark magic, he gets resistance from every side, so it becomes alluring to resort to dark magic. It’s constantly shown as a temptation, something you can choose to fall into. Aaravos is clearly tempting Viren when in the mirror to go deeper into the spell, and Viren tempted Harrow into killing the magma beast and the dragon king. Using dark magic is rebellion against the dragon king and natural order, while using the six is respecting them. The humans rebelled, the elves (for the most part) stayed loyal. Aaravos/Satan rebelled go they were punished. They got the humans to rebel too, so they were also punished. (Another similarity with Christianity I noticed was if you view elves as Jews instead- Israel believed that only they would be with God, but Jesus made it so that the entire world would be with Him. Israel had a covenant with God, so that’s like the elves having an archanum. The rest of the word didn’t have that, like TDP humans, but they can forge that connection if they want to. Having an archanum also doesn’t guarantee anything though, as we see with Aaravos, who still went to dark magic and was punished for it.)
Those who use archanum magic rejected taking their own power and decided to rely on the magic they were given (even though elves naturally have an archanum)- pride vs. humility. And the ironic thing is, dark magic doesn’t even use they own power; they’re still using magic from other creatures! It’s not theirs at all! Yet they still see it as being powerful. And I think that’s why it destroys them: it’s foreign to their body. The archanum is inside of someone, it’s a *part* of them, but dark magic comes from outside- it doesn’t belong there. Callum’s response to it was literally becoming sick; your body responds that way when a foreign pathogen enters your body. A stronger comparison is drugs and addiction. You like how it feels, but you feel crappy after, and yet you keep using it to get that high again, only more each time to counter tolerance. And each time, you get further from where you started in the Garden.
That ended up being way longer than I intended, so hopefully someone reads it and gets something out of it. I’d love to hear others’ thoughts!
So here’s one piece I disagree with.
What evidence do we have of Claudia being a moral person?
She’s nice at the beginning of the story, but has always been a character willing to sacrifice for the people she cares about. Just because she’s nice, doesn’t mean she’s selfless or moral. And arguably, dark magic might not be the thing corrupting people entirely. It might be the energy required for certain spells/ the act of killing itself.
Killing a fawn to heal paralysis sounds like a good exchange, but a child killing a baby animal for their own gain probably has negative mental affects.
As shitty as it was for the dragon king to use it as an excuse to kick out all the humans, I do get the sense that the show itself is trying to portray dark magic as a corrupting influence. The idea that dark magic *doesn't* make its practitioners evil or that it could be used for a good thing is never really explored, whereas the evils of dark magic are always on full display. I don't think we're meant to sympathize with it.
The butterfly virgin sene makes me think it’s like an addiction however humans thought they couldn’t have magic so dark magic is very practical which it was what else could fight dragons! so it was needed for war and to prevent starvation and to heal it is just necessary .
I mean, power itself can never be good or bad, even if it corrupts. The cost can be. If Viran would stop after healing his son for good, would you blame him? I wouldn't, even if he sacrificed a pig or something.
Dark magic isn’t necessarily evil, if you refrain from killing creatures to use it. But I argue that humans don’t need magic for the most part. They just want it because everyone in Xadia has it. Humans on TDP have made impressive architecture and weapons. They have at least the real world equivalent of Roman Empire capability. Probably even better in terms of metallurgy. The point is humans can thrive without magic.
I think that Dark Magic was just one of several things that led to the break up of Viren's marrage.
Yeah it wasn't just dark magic tbh cause the way Viren acts seems more his bad qualities that influence
And I mean I see people break up for less
The mom probably disagreed with teaching Claudia Dark Magic and broke up to set it up as a bad thing vihren was doing.
I personally believe that the comperison between fossile fuels and dark magic is a bad one.Sure they both have awful side effects and we out to straigh away from them.However the humans in the series have no alternative there is no other magical way to yeald magic for humans and so the better comperisson would be considered the idea of Victorian engand where it was ether fossil fuels or no idustrialization ,which objectivly improved quality of human life.So there is no way for humans to save them selfs in case of an emergensy (like we see in the series) other than dark magic.
Note1: I know we saw athe use of wind magic but still it was from single human and how he got it was gess what through dark magic.Also he and nobody else has no idea how to teach that or any other element for that matter to other humans
Note2:Sorry for bad English it's not my native language
I personally think mother’s basement said it best. You should watch his video for the full thing but basically: dark magic is a shortcut to power. Wether dark magic corrupts inherently is yet to be seen but it’s users are far more likely to become arrogant and stop looking for other solutions. This becomes a vicious cycle where the dark magic users solves all their problems with dark magic and stops thinking of non-magic solutions. This is not confirmed but makes sense to me but you should really watch mother basements video for the full explanation.
Here’s another take that I was thinking about. What if dark magic isn’t inherently bad but it leads to bad things. The creation of dark magic led to the rift between magic and humans, the killing of the giant led to the death of two queens and so on. Dark magic may not be bad but so far we have seen a lot of bad consequences for people who use dark magic. Whereas when Callum uses normal magic to solve his problems there aren’t any such consequences. Just a thought
I don't like the show anymore due to Callum and Rayla being a horrible couple(prefer them if they just stayed friends and didn't date/said they loved each other 3 weeks after meeting two of which was spent by Callum still being in love with a girl he has liked for years) but when I did I had a theory way back in the beginning, especially when Aaravos was introduced. I knew he was the one who thought dark magic to humans and I knew the cube was the key for unlocking something(its in the name so that part is easy). What I theorized was that dark magic is star magic without a source, and since it lacks a source it sucks away at whatever is offered to it. Aaravos is the only character other than dark mages to use all sorts of arcanums, perhaps because the star aligned beings were the strongest and rarest they could learn how to control the others with time. When Aaravos uses his own magic his eyes, markings and hair glow white, when someone uses dark magic their eyes and veins turn black but unlike Aaravos, these changes are permanent(cuz the cost of magic without a source is damage to the user, Viren's messed up look is his true appearance and he uses moon magic to hide it. this much is fact).
The key can possibly be for two things rather than just the one. One thing would be to free Aaravos from the actual place he's held in. The place shown in the mirror is just a reflection of a physical place and its possible that they could actually find it(callums journal entry states that he feels like something is pulling at the cube, certain directions glow brighter and stronger which might be a sort of compass to the place, given to the humans by Aaravos himself in order to free him since he could see the future. That last part is true so he probably knew he would be imprisoned). The other thing it can possibly unlock is a connection to the arcanum for those born without one. He possibly created this as a way to help humanity find their own arcanum, but many turned to dark magic and couldn't pass the test like Callum did. There's a reason one of his visions involve him looking through keys and finding the cube, which only showed dark magic as a 'source'. It's a test to prove if one is worthy of magic, something many failed and possibly led to the elves imprisoning Aaravos and the dragons killing the dark mages.
But those are just my theories.
We know from assumption and now interviews that dark magic doesn't corrupt, and it isn't addicting. We know it doesn't require killing, and even if it does that's not much different from eating meat to survive. We know that before dark magic that humans were basically second-class citizens that were worse off than everyone else because of no connection to any arcanum, and after the elves/dragons saw them gain a hint of equality they used primal magic to tear the land in two just to maintain power. Dark magic doesn't lead to the death of the queen--the same would have happend if they were just going after some really cool crop in Xadia or something, meaning that and it's consequences you mention (5:48) are just "cycle of violence" stuff and nothing is dark magic's direct fault. It's a poor comparison to coal, because for humans this isn't between dark magic and the purer primal magic--it's between dark magic and no magic at all. Plus, as discussed, primal magic has been *much worse* for the environment anyways for what it's done to the land.
Dark magic is based
Technically, Callum didn't perform drak magic. he just performed a spell just like it was with his primal stone... if we say that Dark Magic is "Sacrifice for power".It means that people sacrifice "living" things for their owe benefice. Is it good and morally justify ? Depend of context. The world is not good or bad. Viren for love saved is own son by sacrificing himself and something that fricked his wife, Ziad cause of fear and insecurity didn't wanted to re-become powerless against dragon and so endangered humanity. Claudia for "not to be alone" sacrificed creatures to save her own brother and father... U could say that Callum also used dark magic as well. But no... Was it for his own selfishness. Technically Yes. But what did he sacrifice ? His own sanity ? No... His time in the "dark world" ? Well no... he even gain something from it. What he sacrificed was an already dead spongious tantacle. So, did callum sacrificed a living thing ? No. So callum didn't perform the dark magic.
He did use dark magic though, he used a spell while holding a piece of a dead creature as it's fuel. Claudia uses dark magic without having to kill creatures at times, like the smoke wolves, she uses pre-killed beings who still have a bit of power inside. Thats why the dragon horn was so good for a spell, dragons are full of magic, even pieces of them.
I dont entirely agree with this. i think that technically, Callum did tap into the force of dark magic, but he did it in a more moral way without having to sacrifice a living magical creature. I don't think "dark magic" has any inherent moral weight to it, it's just a type of magic that can be used for good or bad as you said.
So my opinion on Dark Magic stems from my experience playing Dragonage. In that world magic is seen as evil, because mages are very easily corrupted by demons and they have something similar called blood magic. In the first game if you do things out of a certain order to save a child his mother sacrifices herself in a blood magic ritual to free him from the influence of a demon. And at that point it is seen as something vile, but in the third game in a throwaway line near the beginning you learn that it has its origins in something more humble and tame. It originated as a way to cast spells when the caster didn't have enough power, but the people would freely sacrifice themselves or just a few drops of blood with consent. In the show you are shown that bits and pieces of creatures can be used. I.e. the dragon spike Claudia gave her dad near the end of the show. And what if the sacrifice freely offered themselves. I believe what we are seeing is a corrupted form of Dark Magic and that all forms of magic have the ability to be corrupted. Is it a magic that can easily be misused-yes. It's why it is a magic that should only be used sparingly.
I have to say, ur point with the fosil energie was very good!!
Wow they touched on it and then you slide away so quick. Humans at the time of the series cannot touch the other magics. It's denied them, and the other nations do treat humans as lesser because of it. You make the fossil fuel versus green energy argument but forget the point out that humans aren't given the option to use the other type.
The writer of the series is clearly making it to where anyone that uses dark magic goes evil. But if you have no other option to save your child, I'd be sacrificing me a cow without thinking. Basically this is a human's lesser trope that some writers like to use. And humans reaching out for power to pull themselves up to everyone else's level makes them evil.
Elves can only tap one Arcanam naturally, "Dark Magic" lets you access all types of magic, either through an Artifact (like the Primal Stones) or something containing the power of that Arcanam, living things appear to be the quickest, easiest and apparently most powerful way to do that.
take stones or water from the Moon Nexus and you may be able to use that to power some simple Illusions or Glamors, but I don't see the Moon Shadow Elves letting you "Desecrate" some of their "Holy" Items for a few party tricks. Want to cast Sky Magic without getting blood on your hands just step out in to a Cyclone, but they don''t come along every day.
"Dark"magic is the Key, what you choose to unlock is on you, mostly because initially they don't know better humans choose Poorly at best and once you start down the truly dark path the damage is already done and it's hard to step away.
What if dark magic corrupts because it's the residual will of the magic creature hurting the mage from the inside as a form of revenge? Could ethicallt sourced "black" magic, obtained withiut hurting the magical creature or/and with the express consent of the magical creature cause no corruption? Could this be another tool to breach the fundamental difference of interest between humans and magical creatures?
Dark magic uses primordial magic without understanding the arcanum, thus the user has to distort the magic to use it. My theory is that by distorting the magic, the distortion corrupts you as well.
I see dark as a drug you feel good but in the end you do any means to ruin anything they touched
It really doesnt tho
yes.
yes it is.
the fact that elves are used in spells was the deciding factor for me.
Hopefully, within the next seasons of dragon prince. Maybe it will show where it came from or if it was created
Is there a seson 4 alrady ?
I mean The elves and dragons did see humans as lesser beings so they probably treated them like such so in a way it’s kinda of there fault for example sol regain did say give up dark magic or I’ll kill a village full of people people
Its not evil per say but it does seen to have a mental and physical toll on the user e.g Callums fever but I think the reason the elves and dragons consider it evil is because it doesn't just harm other beings but the user as well
No it just depends on how you use it.
Dark Magic was just a quick fix to a problem. If they would have researched the arcanum then they could have used the prime sources easily.
Yes like it's a soul sacrifice I don't think I need more
Let's see, is sacrificing other living things do to magic evil....well yeah, duh, also its weak baby necromancer shit, necromancers are always like I HAVE A UNSTOPPABLE UNDEAD ARMY! And then one cleric that can cast sprit guardians shows up and kills 90% of the army just by walking around, fucking get good necromancers
Yeah, like literally every other fandom has darker or eviler magic "Dark" that just killing a dear or a bug to cast a spell is not viewed as evil. Like killing a animal to cast a spell a thing that real life culture around the world has done for thousands of years and they are not viewed as evil.
@@Underworlddream expanding upon that considering the fact that the very dirt is also magic you can use fruits, vegetables, spices, rocks it doesn’t have to be a life for life.
@@daring6983 It hard to imagine Dark Mage in over a 1000s years haven't figure out how to cast spell from anything else that not from a animal. Like the Elves could crush rocks for spell, it should be a easy few step from human Crushing a bug to human Crushing planets or rocks to casts the same spell ahould they come from the same magical elements. The magic system similar enough that it should be possible, it basically all about getting a magical source to fuel your spell. Like even if it has to be alive or fresh, a plant or tree could easily fill that. It feels like they haven't put much thought into the magic system, like I really basic.
Necromancy is considered a crime and yet I own a construction company with wights, draugrs & skeletons, imagine this, what if the IJN Yamato & Musashi were docked near Tokyo, that is the power of the dark arts, getting cool stuff for free,
Mining, construction, farming why just stop at undead legions, hell my undead labourers can out clock China's work camps, Russian gulags & Nazis labour camps,...ok bad example but I can work night and day, I can unclog NYC sewers in a week for no less than 50.000 $
Some of he practices are evil but it could be better! There was that episode where Callum did a spell by crushing a coin. If humans take the time to evolve the magic then it would come down to how it's used. It would be like going from fossil fuels to E85 but right now I would fall on the it's evil side of the convo.
Who knows what messed up stuff Viren had to do to save Soren.
A gusse for me is her seeing him brutally murder an elf and use there life force was probably it or mabey he just killed a random guy to make fluffy pancakes idk :/
Oooookay strawman maker, so a man saves tens of thousands of people from starvation and the destabilization of a country potentially leading to war and you say "but it leads to the death of the queen". I would value the lives of a single person over some rock golem every single time, that's an easy choice. The queen dies saving her people like she was willing to do, that's why she went in the first place. What was your takeaway from Armageddon,
" This movie is terrible because bruce Willis dies on the rock, the plan to blow up the asteroid was obviously evil."
The motivation of every dark magic character is always the best ones. Save a son, revive a father, keep a family together, save a country, kill a tyrannical murderer who politically assassinated a regent and attempts to stop the mission to save lives, make my brother walk, rescue a political dissident of a hostile nation who has been imprisoned without trial or appeal so he can aid your people, kill a race of advanced people who limit your technological advancement and territory leading to the death of millions while they enact a kill on sight policy and refuse diplomatic solutions. Let's face it, the path walked by V ultimately is in line with the best interest of humanity as perceived without the knowledge that Calum has learned that primal magic is learnable, something the elves could have tried to teach if they weren't too busy being racist elitists who are willing to ignore the suffering of sentient lives. If dark magic is gasoline then the elves are hoarding the solar panels while a society with wood burning technology suffers in the dark ages and then sikking dragons on them when they advance to coal.
Dark Magic is much like animal testing. not inherintly evil but the ends need to justify the means. Killing the golem to save thousands was justified killing butterfly to look pretty not so much.
I think Aaravos might have invented it so he could master all arcanum. Elves are only born with a connection to one.
Simple piece of advice, here based on what I have seen so far from, the show don't do dark magic at all u made a lot good points here.
I really thought you were going to talk about callum more
There’s no way there has to be a pure type of dark magic.
It´s not evil, evil, but it has a "corrupting" side to it, it´s prone to escalation and thus thats when it starts to assert itself as really evil compared to reg magic
Ok is viren just like this with power evil and manipulative or is dark magic pulling the strings that much in his turn of evil. I think for me no I rather dark magic given him power and him letting that corrupt him and allowing the dark magic to consume. Tbh isn't like dark magic beckoning him to use it he the one diving deeper into, the dark elf pushing him but not dark magic itself
Dark magic gives power to humans without power. Power corrupts and Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
What about the elves who have power naturally? If power corrupts and elves have power…
The only person we actually see using it for evil is Viren
I would say it is evil and not evil like the force cas in session 3 when Callum crushed raylas moonstone I say it depends on how you uses it so when he crushed the moon stone he used it as a sub element and that's the light side and takeing a creatures sorcey as dark side so really dark magic is the destruction of a primal sorce
For me I feel like dark magic is just any magic used for bad things and it’s more of a taboo instead of an actual type of magic
Like any form of magic there are lines that should never be crossed. Black magic is the same.
I think dark magic is reality humanity's innate magical abilities as we have not seen a non human do dark magic yet. So i think dark magic is simply the essence of humanity if you can think it you can do it as long as you have the right material and training. It's progress magic and the visual affects is simply showing those that use dark magic true intentions because you can always see a person's soul thought their work's.
Aaravos can do dark magic, his little ritual was one of them. He basically created dark magic. Which made me theorized that it's just star magic without a source, he can use all the arcanum because star magic makes him innately talented and when using magic his markings, hair and eyes turn white and glow, when Viren or Claudia use dark magic the opposite happens, their eyes and veins turn black and their hair begins to basically die rather than look bolstered by life energy.
Aaravos made dark magic to reach more power tbh. He wanted to explore more
Since it nearly killed Calum I'll say yes.
I like how Dark Magic does seem to have a corrupting factor to it.
Where? The only thing it has ever done is change someones apperance
@@xadielplasencia3674 well viren seems to have even getting more evil as the show went on and in the flash back with the magma titan he seemed like a kind person that just wanted to help. Jts implied that dark magic has something to do with his more evil personality.
There's more evidence to this because at the end of book 3 after being brought back he looks shocked and confused by what Claudia did and might be having a little regret at his actions almost like the dark magic corruption has left him and he can think clearly once again
@@vanguardplays3418 He does turn more evil with time, but it is bc he feels undervalued and bc of the guy that controls the bug in his ear
@@xadielplasencia3674 it's hard to explain but watch the scene where he gets resurrected and you can see that somethings changed in viren
Like he's scared at what's happened and might have some regrets
a life for a life leaves everyone dead
You don’t have to take a life to use dark magic. you could even use spices to use dark magic.
@@daring6983 yes, but it really depends on how you view plants. in my culture. even the plants have a spirit. so by sacrificing the plant you are still ripping out their soul. that being said. I am aware not all believe this and this is fine.
@@crimsondragon1794 Since I don’t think it’s entirely possible for most people to find out if plants have a soul and I respect other cultures I can come up with other ways that you can get things without killing. Many sheep are Sheard often to their benefit especially in warm climates why not use that wool?
@@daring6983 in this context, because the wool doesn't have magical essence with in it inherently. As dragon prince portrays dark magic, it rips out something vital and deep to power the enchantments, typically by crushing or in Claudia's own words "sqeeuzing it out of them." In this context it can easily infer pulling a soul out of a creature then using that as fuel for magic to make up for what is inherently not there. Like harrow said it is a shortcut. If you use such destructive forces under the justification as it's eaiser or that it is for the better good, it throws everything out of balance. Qfter all even now renewable food and livestock in the real world is causing issues and leads to inhumane practices to meet demand.
@@crimsondragon1794 What if it was a magic sheep? I don’t doubt something like that could exist in the world of The Dragon Prince.
I see it as corrupting because you have to sacrifice lives for it. If you were willing to kill one animal for this spell, why not that spell too? It adds on and the next step doesn't look that bad. Yes, it is bad. However, the elves and other magical beings are equally at fault for pushing humans to a point to need it. If dragons/elves disliked it so much, they should have offered to help humans rather than attack.
There are plenty of ways to use this kind of magic without killing or even harming other living creatures.
What if you use plants or grass or rocks?
What about products people already use like the paper, which comes from trees, everyone uses? Or pieces of an animal that would’ve ended up dead soon anyway?
What about shedded fur, feathers, or scales?
What about your own hair that you would’ve gotten cut off anyway? Maybe your own spit or nail clippings?
I think Dark Magic is comparable to the Dark Side of the Force. It's easier, quicker, but seductive and corrupting.
The thing is that, to me, it almost seems like dark magic seems almost more like the misuse and misunderstanding of some other form of power inherent to humans, most likely the ability to bind themselves to a primal magic or much more unlikely some form human power such as psionic or equally esoteric power. One that no one say Aaravos knows of.
???????
easy ways are not the right ways