this video is 100% completely wrong. i'm going to try to explain why in the simplest way possible. you absolutely SHOULD gain up your instrument input the same way you'd gain up a microphone, which is to make the signal as loud as you can make it without clipping at all. doing this gives you the best SIGNAL TO NOISE ratio, both for microphones AND instrument inputs, and you can test this out for yourself. i understand that you're trying to leave the level at around -18 where you were told the signal should be, but the best way to do this would just be to gain up the instrumet, then TURN DOWN your fader so your level is back at -18. this leaves you with a little bit cleaner of a signal (less noise) just like how it would for a microphone.
Like I said part 2 is coming And I will annihilate all mis information. You guys don't understand what you're saying. I will explain after I come back. It will be up tonight you guys don't understand the terms you are using. And you will find out soon. I don't mind being correcting if I am wrong. But in this case I am 100% you are clueless about this comment. Perceive is to deceive one self which is what you have just done. Be ready
I think I disagree, but maybe I’m missing something: - you have an instrument level signal coming from your guitar; - that signal goes to the preamp on your audio interface; - if available, you can engage the High Z mode on your preamp, correctly matching impedances - the signal then continues on to the analog to digital converters, where it is discretised into points in time (according to a Sample Rate) with specific amplitude values (according to a Bit Depth); - at this point, concepts like “instrument level”, “mic level” or “low impedance” cease to be meaningful, as they’re meant to facilitate the proper interface between different electrical circuits; - you can then change the gain of your preamp in order to allow for the “biggest” signal possible, ensuring you’re using the fullest potential of your converter; - if you don’t, all you’re doing is reducing the resolution of your recording; Let’s say that we have a noise level of -80dB and a signal level of -30dB; that’s a difference of 50dB, let’s call it our Dynamic Range, the distance between the loudest usable sound and the quietest usable sound. Now let’s say we raise the gain on the preamp; the signal is now at -5dB and the noise at -70dB, the Dynamic Range is 65dB. (if raising the gain on your preamp introduces too much noise, you probably need better preamps or converters, both can distort your signal; most current interfaces have pretty good signal to noise ratios, you shouldn’t need fancy gear; if the noise isn’t coming from the preamp, but the guitar itself, then you should look into better shielding its electronics or better pickups) Then, let’s say we raise the gain on our DAW by 10dB; the signal would rise by that amount but so would the noise floor, which means the Dynamic Range doesn’t change. The point isn’t that you set your preamp to the loudest signal, but for the best signal to noise ratio. Your amp sim doesn’t have a clue wether your signal started at instrument or mic level, it only sees the amplitude level at your converter’s output. That’s how you’d do proper gain staging on this situation: get the most out of your preamp and converter, then adjust the level on your DAW to get the best out of your plugin, thereby maintaining the best Dynamic Range possible. If you’re getting “more distortion, less guitar” as you adjust the preamp gain, you’re probably past the gain you need, somehow improperly operating the equipment or the equipment itself is faulty.
Also, the whole idea of recording between -16 and -20 dB being better for mixing is completely foreign to me. If I’m mixing something, receiving recordings with a lower resolution just means the final product will be noisier. Honestly, it sounds like something which might have made sense in analog setups but got “mistranslated” into to the digital era. But again, maybe I'm missing something?
Ive read both of your comments. The problem with treating your guitar like a mic input is that's it is not a mic input. You can gain up if you would like! Like I said if you want to boost the signal. However you will have little room to move in the DAW. If you gain maybe 5db your amp plugin will be closer to unity. Meaning a terrible situation for mixing. You want to leave enough headroom. Your guitar is not a mic you're not supposed to treat as such.... The signal ratio for an amp is set by instrument monitoring the preamp. The impedances are different of course but the minute you set that to instrument level it sends the appropriate the signal your guitar would send the amp. (Last I checked we don't plug a cable in to a gain knob and gain up to get the amp to hear us well.) The impedance change is so that your A/D is more like you would plug into an amp. Gaining will introduce more preamp noice even if you bring down the input volume your not getting a clean sounds anymore. (If you use a distorted tone it is like extreme compression. You are raising the noise floor then boosting with distortion or fuzz. Remember that drives are all compression) I don't have bad preamps. Even if I gain up my interface little bit I will be close to clipping. You don't have much boosting options before you clip. However sometimes I will gain up because the guitar I used to make preset has a hotter output. So to get the same response I will introduce the gain knob/boost pedal in between. Typically the only reason you use the gain knob is if you track through a console and are sending to a separate room with an amp. Old consoles like the Mackie 8bus do not have an instrument input converters so you would gain the console knob to a good level for the amp. This a process Nile Rodgers would do sometimes but his preferred way was and is directly into the console. You can use the color box by JHS to get the same result. As for recording between -16/-20 the reason we do this is because it allows for compression without breaking headroom with just a guitar track. When you have enough headroom the other instruments. if needed can be boosted as well or Eq boosted and not clip your master. Recording at unity will have you constantly battling your master fader and it will always be clipping. Especially if all your tracks are maxed out at unity you don't have enough headroom on a global scale. You can get away with some digital clipping but not a whole a lot. The signal your hearing when I play the guitar comes in fairly low in the DAW but it allows me to have a clean mixing session. No clipping and smooth sounding tones. My noice floor is not almost none existent due to a gate obviously but also I didn't bring up then noise floor by gaining up. All I'm stating is that you shouldn't treat your guitar like a mic. They are different instruments entirely. And if you an are recording bands and don't want to deal with constantly fight your master fader clipping leave your self way more headroom than you think! It will save your mixes. I have yet to have session where I am clipping my master in along time! That's why we record at that volume you guitar isn't the only instrument that has to fit a mix. And you will find yourself fighting your master fader pretty early on because you are recording to loud.
Also I would like to remind you that gain is not volume. You can test this out yourself. Take your phone and play some music without gaining up. Lift your phone up and see where it starts cutting out. Then turn the gain up where you would and do the test again. I guarantee you that the music will be heard a lot further then if the gain was set correctly. Ever notice that when you turn on boost pedal you get more feedback? You are literally increasing the sensitivity of your pickups making more prone to clip your signal before the amp. Gain knobs are simply to control how big the pickups cloud is. Gain is not volume. And when I change impedances I am literally just getting rid of the mis translation. You do not need to gain up in order for your cable to communicate with an amp. For that reason when you set the language on your interface to high impedance for your cable. You have literally set it to to communicate properly. It's really just that simple. Edit I just realized you referred to volume as resolution. Resolution would be changing the literal buffer size from 96khz to 48khz. That is a resolution. Not volume. When you receive mix make sure you know the resolution so that when you load your audio tracks they aren't stretched.
@@Chelitosuav The instrument button IS adding gain (as well as setting the correct impedance) to your signal! If you were to use a passive DI box (which only is supposed to change the impedance) and plugged that input into your interface, then you would need to set the gain appropriately. Your interface is doing this for you, which is why you are unable to add much more gain before you are clipping. As the commenter above said, you really want to take advantage of as much of your converter as possible while leaving appropriate headroom. While you are correct that adding gain does raise the volume of baseline level of noise, the important factor when looking at noise while recording is the ratio of the signal to the noise. The preamps and converters have no clue what you are plugging into them. When they see and input all they see is the voltage and impedance looking back, whether its from a guitar, microphone, or keyboard. For this reason you shouldn't look at an instrument any differently when it comes to gain staging, its your job as an engineer to make sure the signal coming into the DAW is one that is capturing the most amount of information possible. And yes, gain staging is important outside of live sound. "Last I checked we don't plug a cable in to a gain knob and gain up to get the amp to hear us well." It is not uncommon for amps to have a "preamp" knob. Just look at the JCM800! This is just a clean gain knob. You are controlling how hard you are hitting the clipping portion of your amp (additionally while they may seem alike, compression and drive/distortion are not the same, as compression does not aim to add harmonic information in the same way drive does).
@ItsTakeingTooLong Actually you should look up where drive comes from it is extreme compression! Also Gain is not volume. I hear you but every interface literally sets the cable to the perfect communication point. I could do it with a focusrite with and apogee doesn't matter it literally sets it correctly if you wish to boost your amp go for it. But saying gaining by default is the way to go is incorrect. Also once again compression and drives are not different pay attention to your sound wave when recording with heavy distortion it is a literal block. Try a fuzz or just a lot of gain it is literal compression. Also setting the gain right isn't gain staging. Gain staging is the balance of volume and your feed back point. Do you set your gains correctly yes but you do not gain stage they are entirely different things. Gain staging has to do with controlling the volume along side the gain not just a gain knob. Also on the point of compression and distortion being the same use an LA2A and drive it the way you would a distortion pedal thats literally where it comes from. Listen to the Led Zeppelin song black dog there is not distortion pedals going on there it is three stacks of an LA2A. Also the gain on the amp sets the sensitivity of your pickups just like your interface does. That's why when you gain up you get more feedback. Once again it really is just that simple. Edit: I do want to also say there is one thing called overdrive which the distortion we discover from clipping and analog board by accident. But when you clip and analog board. It starts to compress.
this video is 100% completely wrong. i'm going to try to explain why in the simplest way possible. you absolutely SHOULD gain up your instrument input the same way you'd gain up a microphone, which is to make the signal as loud as you can make it without clipping at all. doing this gives you the best SIGNAL TO NOISE ratio, both for microphones AND instrument inputs, and you can test this out for yourself. i understand that you're trying to leave the level at around -18 where you were told the signal should be, but the best way to do this would just be to gain up the instrumet, then TURN DOWN your fader so your level is back at -18. this leaves you with a little bit cleaner of a signal (less noise) just like how it would for a microphone.
Like I said part 2 is coming And I will annihilate all mis information. You guys don't understand what you're saying. I will explain after I come back. It will be up tonight you guys don't understand the terms you are using. And you will find out soon. I don't mind being correcting if I am wrong. But in this case I am 100% you are clueless about this comment. Perceive is to deceive one self which is what you have just done. Be ready
Yes, Mr Anderson gets it 👌
@@j3ffn4v4rr0 Oh God you guys just wait for part 2 you will se you have no clue
@@Chelitosuav You can't get to the truth by doubling down on an incorrect answer.
I think I disagree, but maybe I’m missing something:
- you have an instrument level signal coming from your guitar;
- that signal goes to the preamp on your audio interface;
- if available, you can engage the High Z mode on your preamp, correctly matching impedances
- the signal then continues on to the analog to digital converters, where it is discretised into points in time (according to a Sample Rate) with specific amplitude values (according to a Bit Depth);
- at this point, concepts like “instrument level”, “mic level” or “low impedance” cease to be meaningful, as they’re meant to facilitate the proper interface between different electrical circuits;
- you can then change the gain of your preamp in order to allow for the “biggest” signal possible, ensuring you’re using the fullest potential of your converter;
- if you don’t, all you’re doing is reducing the resolution of your recording;
Let’s say that we have a noise level of -80dB and a signal level of -30dB; that’s a difference of 50dB, let’s call it our Dynamic Range, the distance between the loudest usable sound and the quietest usable sound.
Now let’s say we raise the gain on the preamp; the signal is now at -5dB and the noise at -70dB, the Dynamic Range is 65dB.
(if raising the gain on your preamp introduces too much noise, you probably need better preamps or converters, both can distort your signal; most current interfaces have pretty good signal to noise ratios, you shouldn’t need fancy gear; if the noise isn’t coming from the preamp, but the guitar itself, then you should look into better shielding its electronics or better pickups)
Then, let’s say we raise the gain on our DAW by 10dB; the signal would rise by that amount but so would the noise floor, which means the Dynamic Range doesn’t change.
The point isn’t that you set your preamp to the loudest signal, but for the best signal to noise ratio. Your amp sim doesn’t have a clue wether your signal started at instrument or mic level, it only sees the amplitude level at your converter’s output. That’s how you’d do proper gain staging on this situation: get the most out of your preamp and converter, then adjust the level on your DAW to get the best out of your plugin, thereby maintaining the best Dynamic Range possible. If you’re getting “more distortion, less guitar” as you adjust the preamp gain, you’re probably past the gain you need, somehow improperly operating the equipment or the equipment itself is faulty.
Also, the whole idea of recording between -16 and -20 dB being better for mixing is completely foreign to me. If I’m mixing something, receiving recordings with a lower resolution just means the final product will be noisier. Honestly, it sounds like something which might have made sense in analog setups but got “mistranslated” into to the digital era. But again, maybe I'm missing something?
Ive read both of your comments. The problem with treating your guitar like a mic input is that's it is not a mic input. You can gain up if you would like! Like I said if you want to boost the signal. However you will have little room to move in the DAW. If you gain maybe 5db your amp plugin will be closer to unity. Meaning a terrible situation for mixing. You want to leave enough headroom. Your guitar is not a mic you're not supposed to treat as such.... The signal ratio for an amp is set by instrument monitoring the preamp. The impedances are different of course but the minute you set that to instrument level it sends the appropriate the signal your guitar would send the amp. (Last I checked we don't plug a cable in to a gain knob and gain up to get the amp to hear us well.) The impedance change is so that your A/D is more like you would plug into an amp. Gaining will introduce more preamp noice even if you bring down the input volume your not getting a clean sounds anymore. (If you use a distorted tone it is like extreme compression. You are raising the noise floor then boosting with distortion or fuzz. Remember that drives are all compression) I don't have bad preamps. Even if I gain up my interface little bit I will be close to clipping. You don't have much boosting options before you clip. However sometimes I will gain up because the guitar I used to make preset has a hotter output. So to get the same response I will introduce the gain knob/boost pedal in between. Typically the only reason you use the gain knob is if you track through a console and are sending to a separate room with an amp. Old consoles like the Mackie 8bus do not have an instrument input converters so you would gain the console knob to a good level for the amp. This a process Nile Rodgers would do sometimes but his preferred way was and is directly into the console. You can use the color box by JHS to get the same result. As for recording between -16/-20 the reason we do this is because it allows for compression without breaking headroom with just a guitar track. When you have enough headroom the other instruments. if needed can be boosted as well or Eq boosted and not clip your master. Recording at unity will have you constantly battling your master fader and it will always be clipping. Especially if all your tracks are maxed out at unity you don't have enough headroom on a global scale. You can get away with some digital clipping but not a whole a lot. The signal your hearing when I play the guitar comes in fairly low in the DAW but it allows me to have a clean mixing session. No clipping and smooth sounding tones. My noice floor is not almost none existent due to a gate obviously but also I didn't bring up then noise floor by gaining up. All I'm stating is that you shouldn't treat your guitar like a mic. They are different instruments entirely. And if you an are recording bands and don't want to deal with constantly fight your master fader clipping leave your self way more headroom than you think! It will save your mixes. I have yet to have session where I am clipping my master in along time! That's why we record at that volume you guitar isn't the only instrument that has to fit a mix. And you will find yourself fighting your master fader pretty early on because you are recording to loud.
Also I would like to remind you that gain is not volume. You can test this out yourself. Take your phone and play some music without gaining up. Lift your phone up and see where it starts cutting out. Then turn the gain up where you would and do the test again. I guarantee you that the music will be heard a lot further then if the gain was set correctly. Ever notice that when you turn on boost pedal you get more feedback? You are literally increasing the sensitivity of your pickups making more prone to clip your signal before the amp. Gain knobs are simply to control how big the pickups cloud is. Gain is not volume. And when I change impedances I am literally just getting rid of the mis translation. You do not need to gain up in order for your cable to communicate with an amp. For that reason when you set the language on your interface to high impedance for your cable. You have literally set it to to communicate properly. It's really just that simple.
Edit I just realized you referred to volume as resolution. Resolution would be changing the literal buffer size from 96khz to 48khz. That is a resolution. Not volume. When you receive mix make sure you know the resolution so that when you load your audio tracks they aren't stretched.
@@Chelitosuav The instrument button IS adding gain (as well as setting the correct impedance) to your signal! If you were to use a passive DI box (which only is supposed to change the impedance) and plugged that input into your interface, then you would need to set the gain appropriately. Your interface is doing this for you, which is why you are unable to add much more gain before you are clipping. As the commenter above said, you really want to take advantage of as much of your converter as possible while leaving appropriate headroom. While you are correct that adding gain does raise the volume of baseline level of noise, the important factor when looking at noise while recording is the ratio of the signal to the noise. The preamps and converters have no clue what you are plugging into them. When they see and input all they see is the voltage and impedance looking back, whether its from a guitar, microphone, or keyboard. For this reason you shouldn't look at an instrument any differently when it comes to gain staging, its your job as an engineer to make sure the signal coming into the DAW is one that is capturing the most amount of information possible. And yes, gain staging is important outside of live sound.
"Last I checked we don't plug a cable in to a gain knob and gain up to get the amp to hear us well." It is not uncommon for amps to have a "preamp" knob. Just look at the JCM800! This is just a clean gain knob. You are controlling how hard you are hitting the clipping portion of your amp (additionally while they may seem alike, compression and drive/distortion are not the same, as compression does not aim to add harmonic information in the same way drive does).
@ItsTakeingTooLong Actually you should look up where drive comes from it is extreme compression! Also Gain is not volume. I hear you but every interface literally sets the cable to the perfect communication point. I could do it with a focusrite with and apogee doesn't matter it literally sets it correctly if you wish to boost your amp go for it. But saying gaining by default is the way to go is incorrect. Also once again compression and drives are not different pay attention to your sound wave when recording with heavy distortion it is a literal block. Try a fuzz or just a lot of gain it is literal compression. Also setting the gain right isn't gain staging. Gain staging is the balance of volume and your feed back point. Do you set your gains correctly yes but you do not gain stage they are entirely different things. Gain staging has to do with controlling the volume along side the gain not just a gain knob. Also on the point of compression and distortion being the same use an LA2A and drive it the way you would a distortion pedal thats literally where it comes from. Listen to the Led Zeppelin song black dog there is not distortion pedals going on there it is three stacks of an LA2A. Also the gain on the amp sets the sensitivity of your pickups just like your interface does. That's why when you gain up you get more feedback. Once again it really is just that simple.
Edit:
I do want to also say there is one thing called overdrive which the distortion we discover from clipping and analog board by accident. But when you clip and analog board. It starts to compress.