Thanks to Chieftain for taking the time to help us with fixing this video! No one does tanks better than him. Check out his channel here: www.youtube.com/@TheChieftainsHatch
If they had outstanding commitment to quality, they would have done their responsibility in the first video, not only when people call out their mistakes.
@@TimZandbergenWere all human and we all make mistakes, These guys do a mammoth task in work and research, all mistakes happen. It's better to address them, fix them, and tell people you were wrong and make it right.
The fact that you and your team were willing to take down an old episode in the name of due diligence and commitment to quality is, frankly, inspiring. Thank you for all your work!
It's so refreshing to see content creation where mistakes are rectified. It's easy to get things mixed up now and then, especially with the sheer length and volume of a channel like this. So many others would just let it slide or make a note on the original if that. Props to you guys for the reupload and production quality here!
@@WorldWarTwo since there’s a film about Pattons Panthers(761st tank battalion) I was wondering if you make a special mention of that battalion other black combat units from the USA because I believe they deserve more recognition.
Might have wanted to point out that the Allies had heavy tank losses, especially to mines (if memory serves 25% of write offs were to mines, but due to high survivability of the crews they quickly jumped into new Tanks. It was amazing how the Allies were able to get such massive numbers of armor and vehicles across the channel especially without a good port until Antwerp was opened but very late in the war. It was the abilityto build logistic vehicles in massive numbers in terms of ships and specialized carriers and trucks, as well as armor recovery vehicles, that created the Allied Western Front juggernaut.
My father fought in the Second World War as an artillery observer with the 67nd Armored Field Artillery Battalion. The unit was primarily in combat from March 1942 in North Africa to Germany in the early spring of 1945. The unit's primary weapon during those years was the M7 105mm Artillery Motor Carriage, (adapted from the Sherman's frame and later nicknamed "Priest" by the British). According to Dad's recollection, the M7's agility brought the 62nd into some pretty hairy scraps - including a second wave landing of observers on Omaha Beach on D-day morning. I bring this up because, while your program is generally quite informatve, the M7's and other artillery units contributions to our defeat of the Nazis goes largely ignored.
You actually cared enough, and spent the money, to reproduce more accurate quality.....Gentlemen and Ladies of Timeghost, I applaud you with sincere appreciation and respect. No one else does what you do.
There is one advantage of the 75mm gunned Sherman M-4 that is seldom recognized. It had a short gun barrel which allowed the tank to move more easily through thick forest and built up areas. This maneuverability gave its crews the ability to move onto the opposition's flanks to get those good shots against their tanks.
Good thing the Germans were totally ignorant and inept at warfare, and never realised this astounding truth every World of Tanks player knows and tailor their tactics accordingly! It's just a historical fact that allied tankers were overjoyed at being forced into armored knife-fights because of their hopelessly inferior range... If they were lucky. You've only got one life chum - this shit is not a videogame, and war is about more than logistics.
Another reason the 75 was preferred was easy/faster loading. This is why the IS-2's sucked compared to IS-1s, in my opinion. The 85 on the IS-1 could put more rounds down the range faster with an adequate round for most jobs, just as the 75 sherman could.
Bravo to the team for taking the feedback onboard and producing a great video. Very few channels would've done this; this is why you're one of the best channels on TH-cam! Bravo! 👏
Mr. Moran (the Chieftain) has a great presentation about why the Sherman was the best tank in Europe that's highly recommended. Like many I was skeptical at first but he makes a great argument for the Sherman when you take ALL factors into consideration.
I'm kind of an WW2 armored vehicle nerd and I really like that you took down the previous video and improved on it to better reflect on the armor used by both sides. Kudos TimeGhost!
I appreciate your dedication to accurate telling of history on this channel. Letting us know you got it wrong in another video and then releasing the corrected version I know wasn't cheap. That's why I'm a member of the Time Ghost Army. I've been watching Indy since The Great War series. I know its not just Indy but he is the face of that franchise and this for all intents and purposes. Much appreciate the HOURS of entertainment.
What a great channel, new to it. WWII buff myself, 30 years old and show my kids these videos to inform them as well as entertain. Theyre into it lol Tanks alot
Remember, no one makes a perfect plan. But WW2 in real time comes pretty darn close. Also, war is hell! So my grateful tks 2 Indy, and everyone else connected 2 the Time Ghost Army. Merry Christmas 2 everyone, and a happy, and safe New Year.😊
Thank you Chieftain for combing through the script to assure its accuracy! And thank you Indy and the whole Time Ghost team for putting these programs out for us to consume! We enjoy your efforts a great deal! 👌😏💖
Excellent compilation thank you,I knew about the the 75s/76s but the order theywere used and different purposes with different loads is explained very clearly.Also was sketchy on the Cromwell and it's place in the fray made sense to use that with the flame thrower as the thick armor would have protected the crew from certain incineration with a direct hit.These units still needed the faster Shermans(Fire Fly for protection)
All writers, even the great ones, need an editor. You just happen to have an entire fanbase. So glad you were able to fix this, with the help of the Chieftain, so that we could enjoy it without the occasional wince. This won't stop the Sherman-haters, but it puts its status in 1944 in balanced, accurate context. Which is what you do best. On to Berlin!
The tank combat in the Western front is so underrated. During the Battle ‘Operation Epsom’, the British had a concentration of Panzers facing them that was only second to the Battle of Kursk. Seven and a half armoured divisions inc 3x SS and the Panzer Lehr *on a front of just 62 miles* compared to over 600 miles on the Eastern front.
Absolutely true! There were more tanks per square mile between Caen and Bayeux during the Battle for Normandy than at Kursk. People just don't realize how grim that fighting was. The heaviest, most concentrated tank warfare of WW2!
I was a critic of your last video on this topic. I'm still wondering if the researcher (or researchers) behind it were okay. It all came off as some sort of poorly-researched, last minute essay for a high school project. This iteration is far superior and much more fitting for the standards of this channel. You guys have done a bang-up job, and I am thoroughly impressed that your team actually went through the trouble of correcting the mistakes.
Strongpoint : "I am a strongpoint ! Nothing can change me." Petard : *launch 13kg of explosive* Not-so-strong-point : "Understandable, have a great day."
A school friend's dad served in Normandy and witnessed petard mortars being fired at German bunkers. Apparently, the blast they created was phenomenal, and I remember him telling us about the crew of one bunker surrendering because even though none of them were injured or killed by the first shot, they were so shaken by it that they simply didn't want to be on the receiving end of another !
Have a copy of the game Panzer Leader from 1974 and almost all the vehicles in this video are represented in there by counters. Values assigned to each tank are somewhat abstract to simplify the game, but represent attack, defense, speed, and range. I can see correlation between those values and attributes in this and other videos such as firepower, armour, engines, and crew quality
When Indy talks about the pros and cons of both 75mm and 76mm within 4:00 - 4:25, I just remember that Sherman in the first Company of Heroes game. The M4 Sherman tank there has the 75mm as a default main gun and you can upgrade it to M1A1C 76mm if you want it. The 75mm has a blast radius which can decimate infantry and weapons support teams but it has an okay damage to heavy-armored vehicles. This is where the 76mm is needed. Once you upgraded it with 76mm, its armor penetration increases but it has a lesser damage to infantry though it has a different way to counter infantry units like it has a .50 Cal M2HB Browning Heavy Machine Gun.
Close air support is worth a 'special' of its own. Specialist Fighter Ground Attack (FGA) were were well integrated in an efficient system with experienced Fowrward Air controllers (FAC) in a revolutionarily effective system.... by later 1944 this was neccessary as combat fatigue had taken a toll and as it was 'end war', neither infantry or armour wanted to risk advances without it on call.
The king of the WW2 battlefield was a tank - ANY tank - that was actually makes it to the battlefield in working order; the Sherman was probably the most reliable tank ever made and that is a very underrated asset. Also one thing glided over here is that quantitatively the most devastating destroyer of German tanks on the Western Front was not an antitank gun, whether on an armoured vehicle tank or towed, but Typhoons and Mustangs, enabled by allied air superiority.
Indy, the Ferdinand was never deployed in fighting on the North West European front. The survivors from the Eastern front, post Kursk, saw some action in Italy as mobile blockhouses, and I believe a few ended their days in Hungary. Not nit picking of course!
Kinda knew you would do this and im really glad. This channel isnt *just* youtube, its education - with a commitment to academic rigour even some academics on youtube don't reach. As i said in the initial community post, i would love to see an analysis of the errors made and why. This isnt because i feel you as a channel have anything to answer for or correct, but because its a fadcinating opportunity to learn about the traps and mistakes that can exist in research (especially when youre a generalist or youre approaching a specific discipline or subject as an expert in another where greater expertise exists). If you were to do this, I'd love it, and I'd imagine we would see no reference to who specifically was doing the research or the workings of the channel aside from regarding research. Id also completely understand if a video like that- "how honest historians make mistakes" might present too much of a minfield or be viewed outside the scope of the channel. In terms of honesty and rigour, this video is enough - id just like to see this analysis as an interesting discussion and an opportunity to educate.
Thanks for a great video. Am surprised the Firefly was not mentioned more. It was an up-gunned terror of a tank that blinded it's own crew temporarily if they didn't blink while firing it and set fire to many hedges and undergrowth in front of it while firing.
I wasn’t really paying attention, just playing TH-cam in the background. When you got to talking about Sherman guns, I was thinking “hey it sounds like they’re using the Chieftain as a source” As it so happens lol. Just classic Chieftain Sherman talking points.
Could ground crews radio aircraft for CAS? Or did the aircraft have to rely on smoke signals/flairs?? If they could radio the aircraft how accessible was the radio to troops? Were the radios common, like the standard radios in tanks or did it have to be a bulky specialised radio set up? It would be scary not have the ability to contact the CAS aircraft. For example in band of brothers, ep 7 or 8 I believe, the CAS aircraft strafes the American troops thinking they’re Germans. Even though they popped smoke and they were dropping care packages for the Americans.
I would suggest that the claims of unreliability of the German tanks is not an issue of design and manufacture, but of a lack of supply and maintenance available to keep them running as well as say, late war British tanks, which I would suggest they are on par with. Also, being on the defensive, tanks that would otherwise be recoverable could not be. (Yes, the Panther was rushed, and that first impression at Kursk was never erased, though it should have been.) People complain about the final drives and transmissions on late war German tanks for good reason, but tank crews report that in good hands, they would hold up for as long as any other tank's. Good hands became harder to find as the war went on, of course... If the Germans were able to maintain any sort of air cover on the Western Front, the story would be very different, even with fuel shortages. Of course, fuel shortages meant no air cover or pilot training, blah blah blah.... American tanks are exceptional, as they are made in peaceful mega-assembly line factories, where any part can be switched out with any other like part (something no other nation could claim). This, along with the lengthy and thorough development of the Sherman (and related tanks) made it a masterpiece for the job it was intended for (and it would have been much better if it didn't have to fit onto railroad cars and jammed into holds of ships via crane). The Pershing was not given the luxury of rigorous testing and long development and so was very much like the Panther. In time, it would prove to be an excellent design. In time...
It's worth mentioning that a hallmark of a properly reliable tank is ease of use. If it takes very experienced personnel for a tank to be serviceable, it's not quite "reliable" in a logistical sense. Turnover rates will be heightened as a result of this. Tanks like T-34 and Sherman, although not impeccable reliability-wise (they were serviceable for the time barring manufacturing defects), could be safely and reliably operated by inexperienced personnel, which is an important distinction
Ofc it was for "propaganda"...and propaganda should look "impressive". Im surprised they found a place in germany, to that date, to place them all in a open field and dont get bombed by air^^@@Julius_Hardware
Contemporary analysis of the Panther based on functionally restored versions suggest that there was not anything really 'wrong' about the transmission per se. Rather, it was poorly used and overly abused by inexperienced drivers, producing unnecessary and excessive wear and tear. If you use anything wrong enough, it will explode or break.
Restored vehicle analysis would be based off of a sample of entirely later Ausf A and G machines. I do believe that by 1944 the Panther's reliability problems were largely solved, but the Ausf D is documented as having serious final drive and transmission related issues; in February 1943 the entire production run to that point was recalled for overhaul in an attempt that did apparent little to avert the experience at Kursk which taints the Panther's reputation to this day. Whether that Kursk-performance reputation is truly deserved is also up for debate though
Which analysis are you speaking of? The French used the Panther for twice as long as the Germans ever did, and they *hated* the damn things. With the engine and final gear always cited as to why.
@@BlitkriegsAndCoffee You made an excellent point in your other comment about the minimal spare parts production to maximize completed vehicle output. How much did this play into the aging French fleet's performance? I would imagine they were very long in the tooth by then; my first instinct is to take the French experience with a grain of salt when trying to draw conclusions about the Germans'. Then again, were any of the Panthers 'new' like the REME ones? As I recall those REME ones had some weird manufacturer error? Though I may be mistaken on that, not to digress entirely...
@@Maus5000 Some were built by the British post war using German technicicans and factories, the rest were salvage from the 100s that littered the French countryside. While I'm sure parts were an issue, the French also got to operate them with experience crews, plenty of petrol, and operated them during peacetime conditions. They had many advantages when using them over their German counterparts. And despite all that, they were still only able to get 150km out of the final drive. The best collection of information on French Panzers that I'm aware of is the Paper 'Le Panzer 1947', but google is failing me at the moment. It more or less comes to the same conclusion as the internet in that he armor and gun were great, but it was plagued with reliability and repair issues. (along with some more interesting notes like how a Smoke Grenade along the engine deck would light the tank on fire)
@BlitkriegsAndCoffee The French only had As and early Gs and lacked the ability to properly maintain them. Plenty of GERMAN reports that counter the French report, with reports of 1,000km before the final drive broke. 1st Panzer Division on the Eastern Front in March 1944 for example.
Great work, only possible goof I still noticed was a minor one of talking about the Archer but showing footage of either an M10 or an Achilles though that's probably more because footage of Archers is quite rare. Possibly because they were so sneaky, or just embarrased that their gun was on backwards. It's quite interesting that a lot of conceptions and stereotypes are now being challenged about WW2 armour though it makes it understandably tricky to be accurate in a summary/overview video.
Well you can definitely tell Chieftan's fingerprints all over this script. Its more or less a rehash of several of his talks, and contains many more obscure technical details about tank improvements than the Eastern Front one. (Especially the Sherman part, which is longer than the discussion about all the other American tanks combined) I really don't like how the modern speakers have started lumping the Panther and Tiger together and calling them rare. Tigers were rare, Panthers were as common as Panzer IVs, and a Plurality by the time of the Battle of the Bulge. Zaloga also notes that the 76mm was seen as a disappointment by Tank Crews, as it had a weaker HE round, no smoke round, and still couldn't punch through the front of a Panther at combat ranges, with a group from 3rd Armored outright refusing the upgrade initially despite seeing more tank on tank action than just about anyone. Regardless, Allied Tankers consistently overcame their opposing counterparts through better use of combined arms and superior numbers. For the Gemans, Panzer Brigades weren't the answer in the West. Commonwealth and American forces has far more anti tank weaponry spread among their divisions and could whittle down the counter attacks far more effectively than the Soviets. Training was also a major issue for the Germans. Allied tankers noted the decreasing quality of German tankers, and how routinely they began making mistakes. German armor designed for the eastern front suffered heavily in the west, where the terrain forced combat to be at much shorter ranges, and eliminating the Germans primary advantage. Finally, the endurance on these tanks just wasn't there. Germany had kept production high by basically eliminating spare part production, and German tanks were notoriously difficult to repair in the field. Often German armored assaults would create fantastically lopsided local breakthroughs against the Allies only to be enveloped and abandoned a week later. The ideal weapon for video games and selling books, late war german tanks were fantastic at winning the battle only to lose the war.
An excellent comment, thank you for adding this. I am also dismayed about the frequent downplaying of Panther's deployment (numerically speaking) in particular. I wonder if this is related to the common fixation to call it a "heavy tank" and in this way also lump it with the Tigers
@@Maus5000 In my opinion, the reasons the Panther remains such a controversial German Tank is because weight wise it is a Heavy Tank, but the Germans tried to use it the same way you would a Medium Tank. This in turn means that people tend to call it whichever one bests suits their argument at the time.
just wondering, but in the war against humanity series quite it was said that the strategic bombing did not have effect. but now it is claim that tank production got hampered by bombing. great episode, as always
I would have added one thing: You mention that the main weakness of American armor in Normandy was the inexperience of the crews, by the time the Allies are approaching Germany this is no longer the case. At the Battle of Arracourt in September of 1944 experienced American forces are turning the tables on well equipped but inexperienced German Panzer formations.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Arracourt was a perfect example of what well trained Sherman tank crews could do against a superior armored force(it was no "anomaly", the U.S. 4th Armored Division trained for years before landing in Normandy). And why did they get "next to nowhere"? Fuel and supplies were diverted elsewhere, so the Third Army had to halt it's advance(kinda hard to go anywhere without fuel, eh?). This halt gave the Germans time to dig in and reinforce the First Army and Fifth Panzer Army. Not to mention the exceptionally rainy weather hampering offensive operations. Then after Metz was captured, the Americans came up against the Siegfried Line.
The closing statement is... Interesting. It poses the old question that every person who has ever studied the 2nd World War in depth will encounter, 'Quantity over Quality' and so on. But what makes a difference isn't whether one is producing Shermans and the other Panthers. The distinction between the Western Allies and Germany is one of industrial capacity and overall industrial self-sufficiency. The US and Britain, combined, excluding the colonies, have multiple times the industrial capabilities of Germany, both by virtue of protected manufacturing facilities (protected from bombings), more modern production machinery (the German industrial machine has been rolling out war materiell for 6 years now and even further back considering the rapid re-armarment, while the US had the capability to modernize its factories, free from that strain) and a bigger manpower pool of specialized workers. The US could be producing bloody Maus and would still outproduce the Germans in raw numbers. The only thing 'balancing the scales' a bit is the fact that the US has to maintain a massiver production chain over the Atlantic, under threat from U-Boats (even reduced). But still, the idea that there is any chance that the Germans had a low-cost viable solution that could've equaled Allied numbers, and they chose to ignore it in favor of bigger tanks is an illusion.
A bit late to the game here, but... hey, gotta love a crew dedicated to the truth. Good on 'em, truly. Hol' up.... Where is the Aral Sea? Some of the Great Lakes region looks like they're missinf, too.
They mentioned in a previous video that, when creating the map, the layer with all the bodies of water accidentally got shifted westward, so all the lakes and rivers are in the wrong position 😅
A dramatic improvement in quality of the presentation. I seem to remember reading in Wikipedia that Wet Stowage was issued as a field modification kit. However, I've not seen any reference to the kit being fitted in the field. The Firefly (and the 17 pounder) had problems with sloped armour. There is a glacis plate in a German museum (Munster?) with marks from 5 hits by a 17 pounder. The problem is probably overfilling of gunpowder. As far as the 76mm gun is concerned, it was plagued by a phenonmenon called The Shatter Gap. Eisenhower had good reason to complain about this. The Germans discovered that their standard 16 tonne bridges could handle the Tigers. So movement was not that much of a problem. Except for lack of fuel.
16:27 Molybdenum! Try saying that three times fast! Which is why here in Canada it is often called "Molly". Look up Kitsault, BC, a former Molly mine, and now a ghost town, frozen in the 1980s when it shut down and everyone left.
I agree Tiger II were gas guzzler and was prey to shots into its flanks. But the German heavy and super heavy tanks were useless as they couldnt cross bridges due to their heavy weight.
Thanks to Chieftain for taking the time to help us with fixing this video! No one does tanks better than him.
Check out his channel here: www.youtube.com/@TheChieftainsHatch
No ones fits into them or gets out of them quickly better in a “ Oh my tank is on fire!” kind of way.
why are sweden, mongolia, turkey, afghanistan, ireland, spain, saudi arabia and argentina highlighted on the map?
They are all "neutral" countries @@CannibaLouiST
@@CannibaLouiSTProbably because they were all neutral.
18:20 So I guess you will never mention the Ratte, if it was even a serious design in the first place.
Shout out to this team for recognizing that they made errors and reproducing the episode. The commitment to quality is outstanding.
If they had outstanding commitment to quality, they would have done their responsibility in the first video, not only when people call out their mistakes.
@@TimZandbergenWere all human and we all make mistakes, These guys do a mammoth task in work and research, all mistakes happen. It's better to address them, fix them, and tell people you were wrong and make it right.
@@TimZandbergenAre you for real?
Do you know someone that has always done everything without a single error?
So toxic
Agreed! Bravo Zulu to the Time Ghost team!
@@TimZandbergenYou must be so bearable to people you interact with.
Just a pure coincidence that this episode is 19 minutes 44 seconds long
I didn't even notice till this comment, strange coincidence for sure!
- Jake
@@WorldWarTwonice ahah
This is why you guys are the best WWII channel on youtube. You take the time to go back and fix mistakes. You guys rule!
Thank you for the comment and thanks for watching!
Best channel… not just best WWII channel!
Mark Felton
Really impressed by your willingness to admit the mistakes, and actively working to fix them.
A strength of character far too rare in the modern day.
Thanks for the kind words!
The fact that you and your team were willing to take down an old episode in the name of due diligence and commitment to quality is, frankly, inspiring. Thank you for all your work!
Thanks for watching!
-TimeGhost Ambassador
This team hardly ever ceases to impress me in just about everything you all do. Thank you!
Thank you very much and thanks for watching!
Glad you got your tanks fixed. It's hard to get parts, sometimes. You have my tanks.
Tank you for watching.
It's so refreshing to see content creation where mistakes are rectified. It's easy to get things mixed up now and then, especially with the sheer length and volume of a channel like this. So many others would just let it slide or make a note on the original if that. Props to you guys for the reupload and production quality here!
We appreciate the kind comment, thank you!
@@WorldWarTwo since there’s a film about Pattons Panthers(761st tank battalion) I was wondering if you make a special mention of that battalion other black combat units from the USA because I believe they deserve more recognition.
Might have wanted to point out that the Allies had heavy tank losses, especially to mines (if memory serves 25% of write offs were to mines, but due to high survivability of the crews they quickly jumped into new Tanks. It was amazing how the Allies were able to get such massive numbers of armor and vehicles across the channel especially without a good port until Antwerp was opened but very late in the war. It was the abilityto build logistic vehicles in massive numbers in terms of ships and specialized carriers and trucks, as well as armor recovery vehicles, that created the Allied Western Front juggernaut.
The History Guy did a video about the hurdles overcome to deliver the B29s on time.
You are correct the people of that time moved mountains.
Great concise episode with the precision of the Chieftain keeping it rolling along and hitting the target.
Thank you for watching.
Well done, kudos to Indy and the entire crew and the Chieftain!
This channel never disappoints, beautiful descriptions and accurate information. Props to realising mistakes and improving on them. Great as always!
Thank you very much for watching, be sure to check out The Chieftain who helped us out with this one if you haven't already!
My father fought in the Second World War as an artillery observer with the 67nd Armored Field Artillery Battalion. The unit was primarily in combat from March 1942 in North Africa to Germany in the early spring of 1945. The unit's primary weapon during those years was the M7 105mm Artillery Motor Carriage, (adapted from the Sherman's frame and later nicknamed "Priest" by the British). According to Dad's recollection, the M7's agility brought the 62nd into some pretty hairy scraps - including a second wave landing of observers on Omaha Beach on D-day morning. I bring this up because, while your program is generally quite informatve, the M7's and other artillery units contributions to our defeat of the Nazis goes largely ignored.
March 43
I watched you guys since the beginning. You’re the best and keep doing what you’re doing
Thanks for the lovely comment, and thanks for being with us for so long!
You actually cared enough, and spent the money, to reproduce more accurate quality.....Gentlemen and Ladies of Timeghost, I applaud you with sincere appreciation and respect. No one else does what you do.
There is one advantage of the 75mm gunned Sherman M-4 that is seldom recognized. It had a short gun barrel which allowed the tank to move more easily through thick forest and built up areas. This maneuverability gave its crews the ability to move onto the opposition's flanks to get those good shots against their tanks.
I agree with the Chieftain. It was the best tank of the war.
And easy to ship by rail and sea.
That's a thing in an old Clint Eastwood movie, Kelly's Heroes.
Good thing the Germans were totally ignorant and inept at warfare, and never realised this astounding truth every World of Tanks player knows and tailor their tactics accordingly!
It's just a historical fact that allied tankers were overjoyed at being forced into armored knife-fights because of their hopelessly inferior range... If they were lucky.
You've only got one life chum - this shit is not a videogame, and war is about more than logistics.
Another reason the 75 was preferred was easy/faster loading. This is why the IS-2's sucked compared to IS-1s, in my opinion. The 85 on the IS-1 could put more rounds down the range faster with an adequate round for most jobs, just as the 75 sherman could.
Thank you so much Indy. I think the tanks are one of the most disputed arguments of which side had the best tanks in all of ww2.
I0 1990s 1990s
Bravo to the team for taking the feedback onboard and producing a great video. Very few channels would've done this; this is why you're one of the best channels on TH-cam! Bravo! 👏
Thank you for the kind words and thanks for watching this one!
Really appreciate you guys recognizing the error, going back and correcting the video! You rock!
And we appreciate the lovely comment!
Mr. Moran (the Chieftain) has a great presentation about why the Sherman was the best tank in Europe that's highly recommended. Like many I was skeptical at first but he makes a great argument for the Sherman when you take ALL factors into consideration.
Except it wasn't the best tank. There was no best tank. Each country had different requirements.
The Germans would have fared worse with Shermans.
I'm kind of an WW2 armored vehicle nerd and I really like that you took down the previous video and improved on it to better reflect on the armor used by both sides. Kudos TimeGhost!
Big thanks to Chieftain for having a look at this, and a thank you to you for watching!
Thanks for redoing this video, TimeGhost. Your commitment to accuracy is admirable.
Thanks for watching!
I appreciate your dedication to accurate telling of history on this channel. Letting us know you got it wrong in another video and then releasing the corrected version I know wasn't cheap. That's why I'm a member of the Time Ghost Army. I've been watching Indy since The Great War series. I know its not just Indy but he is the face of that franchise and this for all intents and purposes. Much appreciate the HOURS of entertainment.
Thanks for being a member of the TimeGhost army Gary, and cheers for watching!
It’s commendable that you admit your errors and correct them. Well done gentlemen.
Thank you for redoing this episode. I remembered the first release and thought it was not up to your typical quality. Never easy.
Thank you guys for making the effort to reupload the video after correcting the errors. A shoutout to Chieftain for helping out too!
LETS GO this is why i love the timeghost team, they recognized the problems and fixed them not to mention they bring on the chieftain to help
Happy to hear you enjoyed this version!
What a great channel, new to it. WWII buff myself, 30 years old and show my kids these videos to inform them as well as entertain. Theyre into it lol Tanks alot
Remember, no one makes a perfect plan. But WW2 in real time comes pretty darn close.
Also, war is hell! So my grateful tks 2 Indy, and everyone else connected 2 the Time Ghost Army.
Merry Christmas 2 everyone, and a happy, and safe New Year.😊
Thank you Chieftain for combing through the script to assure its accuracy! And thank you Indy and the whole Time Ghost team for putting these programs out for us to consume! We enjoy your efforts a great deal! 👌😏💖
We appreciate the lovely comment, thank you so much!
Tanks a lot of a deep dive into the Western fields of tankery!
This episode was amazing really interesting and entertaining. Great job guys. Also the changing the video due to it being wrong, much respect for that
Excellent compilation thank you,I knew about the the 75s/76s but the order theywere used and different purposes with different loads is explained very clearly.Also was sketchy on the Cromwell and it's place in the fray made sense to use that with the flame thrower as the thick armor would have protected the crew from certain incineration with a direct hit.These units still needed the faster Shermans(Fire Fly for protection)
All writers, even the great ones, need an editor. You just happen to have an entire fanbase. So glad you were able to fix this, with the help of the Chieftain, so that we could enjoy it without the occasional wince. This won't stop the Sherman-haters, but it puts its status in 1944 in balanced, accurate context. Which is what you do best. On to Berlin!
These videos should have way, way higher view counts. Very well done, and very much appreciated, please keep up spectacular work like this.
You guys are a class act for taking the time to redo this. Bravo.
The tank combat in the Western front is so underrated. During the Battle ‘Operation Epsom’, the British had a concentration of Panzers facing them that was only second to the Battle of Kursk. Seven and a half armoured divisions inc 3x SS and the Panzer Lehr *on a front of just 62 miles* compared to over 600 miles on the Eastern front.
Absolutely true! There were more tanks per square mile between Caen and Bayeux during the Battle for Normandy than at Kursk. People just don't realize how grim that fighting was. The heaviest, most concentrated tank warfare of WW2!
Holy crap I was looking for this episode! I thought I was insane and imagined it!
I was a critic of your last video on this topic. I'm still wondering if the researcher (or researchers) behind it were okay. It all came off as some sort of poorly-researched, last minute essay for a high school project. This iteration is far superior and much more fitting for the standards of this channel. You guys have done a bang-up job, and I am thoroughly impressed that your team actually went through the trouble of correcting the mistakes.
This sounds exactly like a Chieftain video in disguise! Well done getting the best in the business to check your work guys!
Thanks for watching!
-TimeGhost Ambassador
Strongpoint : "I am a strongpoint ! Nothing can change me."
Petard : *launch 13kg of explosive*
Not-so-strong-point : "Understandable, have a great day."
A school friend's dad served in Normandy and witnessed petard mortars being fired at German bunkers. Apparently, the blast they created was phenomenal, and I remember him telling us about the crew of one bunker surrendering because even though none of them were injured or killed by the first shot, they were so shaken by it that they simply didn't want to be on the receiving end of another !
Love these specials. Happy Holidays to the Time Ghost team☃️🎅
Happy Holidays to you as well!
@@WorldWarTwo Thank you☃️🎅⛄👀
Thank you Time Ghost Army and Chieftain!
As soon as you said "The Chieftain" I was even more sure of accuracy... TY...
He sure knows his stuff! Thanks for watching.
As always amazing detail that is rarely found in books. 👍
Have a copy of the game Panzer Leader from 1974 and almost all the vehicles in this video are represented in there by counters. Values assigned to each tank are somewhat abstract to simplify the game, but represent attack, defense, speed, and range. I can see correlation between those values and attributes in this and other videos such as firepower, armour, engines, and crew quality
Much better video than the first version. Great job adding the updated content !
Glad to hear you enjoyed the new and improved version, thanks for watching.
Props to the "This Tank is Too Small For Me" Chieftan.
As always, great videos. Merry Christmas to one & all, along with a Happy New Year.
Again thank you all for all the amazing work you do in keeping this History alive. Great video as always WW2 crew.
Thanks for the sweet comment and thank you for watching!
Congratulations,it was a superb episode!
Shout-out to The Chieftain for helping! Thank you for watching.
@@WorldWarTwo It was an excellent idea to ask him for help. The previous version was problematic to say the least.
Thanks to Indy and all involved.
When Indy talks about the pros and cons of both 75mm and 76mm within 4:00 - 4:25, I just remember that Sherman in the first Company of Heroes game. The M4 Sherman tank there has the 75mm as a default main gun and you can upgrade it to M1A1C 76mm if you want it. The 75mm has a blast radius which can decimate infantry and weapons support teams but it has an okay damage to heavy-armored vehicles. This is where the 76mm is needed. Once you upgraded it with 76mm, its armor penetration increases but it has a lesser damage to infantry though it has a different way to counter infantry units like it has a .50 Cal M2HB Browning Heavy Machine Gun.
Pretty much every American vehicle will have at least 1 M2 browning tbh
Correcting errors is a noble activity. Only fakers and authoritarians refuse to do it. Great respect for the updated video!
Glad you guys redid the video.
I was wondering why the first Video wasnt done in cooperation with the Chieftain :) Nice of you to correct this
Close air support is worth a 'special' of its own. Specialist Fighter Ground Attack (FGA) were were well integrated in an efficient system with experienced Fowrward Air controllers (FAC) in a revolutionarily effective system.... by later 1944 this was neccessary as combat fatigue had taken a toll and as it was 'end war', neither infantry or armour wanted to risk advances without it on call.
The king of the WW2 battlefield was a tank - ANY tank - that was actually makes it to the battlefield in working order; the Sherman was probably the most reliable tank ever made and that is a very underrated asset. Also one thing glided over here is that quantitatively the most devastating destroyer of German tanks on the Western Front was not an antitank gun, whether on an armoured vehicle tank or towed, but Typhoons and Mustangs, enabled by allied air superiority.
Aircraft performed abysmal in the role of tankdestroyer, they were nothing short of crap at taking out tanks.
@Dreachon
Indeed. Only about 5% of all German tanks were taken out by air power including carpet bombing such as Goodwood.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Exactly, aircraft were one of the worst weapons when it came to takin out enemy tanks.
@@Dreachon
Yes, notoriously inaccurate.
Hi Ken Oliver. The 1970s called, and said they want their mistaken beliefs back.
Excellent work Indy & team. Thanks to Chieftan for being the subject matter expert.
He really is one of the best!
I'd love to see you do something like this with a special on aircraft.
Indy, the Ferdinand was never deployed in fighting on the North West European front. The survivors from the Eastern front, post Kursk, saw some action in Italy as mobile blockhouses, and I believe a few ended their days in Hungary. Not nit picking of course!
Kinda knew you would do this and im really glad. This channel isnt *just* youtube, its education - with a commitment to academic rigour even some academics on youtube don't reach.
As i said in the initial community post, i would love to see an analysis of the errors made and why. This isnt because i feel you as a channel have anything to answer for or correct, but because its a fadcinating opportunity to learn about the traps and mistakes that can exist in research (especially when youre a generalist or youre approaching a specific discipline or subject as an expert in another where greater expertise exists).
If you were to do this, I'd love it, and I'd imagine we would see no reference to who specifically was doing the research or the workings of the channel aside from regarding research. Id also completely understand if a video like that- "how honest historians make mistakes" might present too much of a minfield or be viewed outside the scope of the channel.
In terms of honesty and rigour, this video is enough - id just like to see this analysis as an interesting discussion and an opportunity to educate.
The Maus humor was unexpected and hilarious.... Squeak!!! LOL. Good one.
Thanks for a great video. Am surprised the Firefly was not mentioned more. It was an up-gunned terror of a tank that blinded it's own crew temporarily if they didn't blink while firing it and set fire to many hedges and undergrowth in front of it while firing.
Yes! Love your specials!
I wait with bated breath for each new episode, thanks men for your in depth account of ww2 and the little things that made the allies victory.
Thank you for your kind words and continued support!
-TimeGhost Ambassador
Great episode. Errors revised. This is likely better than the episode you intended to make. Very commendable.
Fantastic insight guys - I can but imagine the research that goes into this. Top work. 👍🏻
This channel is absolutely amazing. Thank you for all the hard work.
Thank you for your support!!
I wasn’t really paying attention, just playing TH-cam in the background.
When you got to talking about Sherman guns, I was thinking “hey it sounds like they’re using the Chieftain as a source”
As it so happens lol. Just classic Chieftain Sherman talking points.
Could ground crews radio aircraft for CAS? Or did the aircraft have to rely on smoke signals/flairs?? If they could radio the aircraft how accessible was the radio to troops? Were the radios common, like the standard radios in tanks or did it have to be a bulky specialised radio set up?
It would be scary not have the ability to contact the CAS aircraft. For example in band of brothers, ep 7 or 8 I believe, the CAS aircraft strafes the American troops thinking they’re Germans. Even though they popped smoke and they were dropping care packages for the Americans.
I would suggest that the claims of unreliability of the German tanks is not an issue of design and manufacture, but of a lack of supply and maintenance available to keep them running as well as say, late war British tanks, which I would suggest they are on par with. Also, being on the defensive, tanks that would otherwise be recoverable could not be. (Yes, the Panther was rushed, and that first impression at Kursk was never erased, though it should have been.) People complain about the final drives and transmissions on late war German tanks for good reason, but tank crews report that in good hands, they would hold up for as long as any other tank's. Good hands became harder to find as the war went on, of course... If the Germans were able to maintain any sort of air cover on the Western Front, the story would be very different, even with fuel shortages. Of course, fuel shortages meant no air cover or pilot training, blah blah blah....
American tanks are exceptional, as they are made in peaceful mega-assembly line factories, where any part can be switched out with any other like part (something no other nation could claim). This, along with the lengthy and thorough development of the Sherman (and related tanks) made it a masterpiece for the job it was intended for (and it would have been much better if it didn't have to fit onto railroad cars and jammed into holds of ships via crane). The Pershing was not given the luxury of rigorous testing and long development and so was very much like the Panther. In time, it would prove to be an excellent design. In time...
It's worth mentioning that a hallmark of a properly reliable tank is ease of use. If it takes very experienced personnel for a tank to be serviceable, it's not quite "reliable" in a logistical sense. Turnover rates will be heightened as a result of this. Tanks like T-34 and Sherman, although not impeccable reliability-wise (they were serviceable for the time barring manufacturing defects), could be safely and reliably operated by inexperienced personnel, which is an important distinction
you all have integrity... Well done..
15:54 All those Kingtigers together looks still very impressive.
It was meant to, propaganda newsreel. But it was a good-looking tank
Ofc it was for "propaganda"...and propaganda should look "impressive". Im surprised they found a place in germany, to that date, to place them all in a open field and dont get bombed by air^^@@Julius_Hardware
Thanks for fixing this video, the 1st had some glaring issues, as I pointed out and noticed you seemed to have mentioned re the Centaur
Contemporary analysis of the Panther based on functionally restored versions suggest that there was not anything really 'wrong' about the transmission per se. Rather, it was poorly used and overly abused by inexperienced drivers, producing unnecessary and excessive wear and tear. If you use anything wrong enough, it will explode or break.
Restored vehicle analysis would be based off of a sample of entirely later Ausf A and G machines. I do believe that by 1944 the Panther's reliability problems were largely solved, but the Ausf D is documented as having serious final drive and transmission related issues; in February 1943 the entire production run to that point was recalled for overhaul in an attempt that did apparent little to avert the experience at Kursk which taints the Panther's reputation to this day. Whether that Kursk-performance reputation is truly deserved is also up for debate though
Which analysis are you speaking of?
The French used the Panther for twice as long as the Germans ever did, and they *hated* the damn things. With the engine and final gear always cited as to why.
@@BlitkriegsAndCoffee You made an excellent point in your other comment about the minimal spare parts production to maximize completed vehicle output. How much did this play into the aging French fleet's performance? I would imagine they were very long in the tooth by then; my first instinct is to take the French experience with a grain of salt when trying to draw conclusions about the Germans'.
Then again, were any of the Panthers 'new' like the REME ones? As I recall those REME ones had some weird manufacturer error? Though I may be mistaken on that, not to digress entirely...
@@Maus5000 Some were built by the British post war using German technicicans and factories, the rest were salvage from the 100s that littered the French countryside.
While I'm sure parts were an issue, the French also got to operate them with experience crews, plenty of petrol, and operated them during peacetime conditions. They had many advantages when using them over their German counterparts.
And despite all that, they were still only able to get 150km out of the final drive.
The best collection of information on French Panzers that I'm aware of is the Paper 'Le Panzer 1947', but google is failing me at the moment. It more or less comes to the same conclusion as the internet in that he armor and gun were great, but it was plagued with reliability and repair issues. (along with some more interesting notes like how a Smoke Grenade along the engine deck would light the tank on fire)
@BlitkriegsAndCoffee
The French only had As and early Gs and lacked the ability to properly maintain them. Plenty of GERMAN reports that counter the French report, with reports of 1,000km before the final drive broke.
1st Panzer Division on the Eastern Front in March 1944 for example.
Calling the tanks funnies and having the crocodile spew flame everywhere is brutal ahah.
Great job as always.
Well done. Episode, thank you for sharing .
Thumbs up to the fixed episode!
great job updating. Im a big war thunder and i love tanks so this episode is awesome.
Great work, only possible goof I still noticed was a minor one of talking about the Archer but showing footage of either an M10 or an Achilles though that's probably more because footage of Archers is quite rare. Possibly because they were so sneaky, or just embarrased that their gun was on backwards.
It's quite interesting that a lot of conceptions and stereotypes are now being challenged about WW2 armour though it makes it understandably tricky to be accurate in a summary/overview video.
Well you can definitely tell Chieftan's fingerprints all over this script. Its more or less a rehash of several of his talks, and contains many more obscure technical details about tank improvements than the Eastern Front one. (Especially the Sherman part, which is longer than the discussion about all the other American tanks combined)
I really don't like how the modern speakers have started lumping the Panther and Tiger together and calling them rare. Tigers were rare, Panthers were as common as Panzer IVs, and a Plurality by the time of the Battle of the Bulge. Zaloga also notes that the 76mm was seen as a disappointment by Tank Crews, as it had a weaker HE round, no smoke round, and still couldn't punch through the front of a Panther at combat ranges, with a group from 3rd Armored outright refusing the upgrade initially despite seeing more tank on tank action than just about anyone. Regardless, Allied Tankers consistently overcame their opposing counterparts through better use of combined arms and superior numbers.
For the Gemans, Panzer Brigades weren't the answer in the West. Commonwealth and American forces has far more anti tank weaponry spread among their divisions and could whittle down the counter attacks far more effectively than the Soviets. Training was also a major issue for the Germans. Allied tankers noted the decreasing quality of German tankers, and how routinely they began making mistakes. German armor designed for the eastern front suffered heavily in the west, where the terrain forced combat to be at much shorter ranges, and eliminating the Germans primary advantage. Finally, the endurance on these tanks just wasn't there. Germany had kept production high by basically eliminating spare part production, and German tanks were notoriously difficult to repair in the field. Often German armored assaults would create fantastically lopsided local breakthroughs against the Allies only to be enveloped and abandoned a week later. The ideal weapon for video games and selling books, late war german tanks were fantastic at winning the battle only to lose the war.
An excellent comment, thank you for adding this. I am also dismayed about the frequent downplaying of Panther's deployment (numerically speaking) in particular. I wonder if this is related to the common fixation to call it a "heavy tank" and in this way also lump it with the Tigers
@@Maus5000 In my opinion, the reasons the Panther remains such a controversial German Tank is because weight wise it is a Heavy Tank, but the Germans tried to use it the same way you would a Medium Tank. This in turn means that people tend to call it whichever one bests suits their argument at the time.
just wondering, but in the war against humanity series quite it was said that the strategic bombing did not have effect. but now it is claim that tank production got hampered by bombing.
great episode, as always
Terribly good episode.👍👍👍Merry Chrismas too you all❤👍🤟
Merry Christmas!
-TimeGhost Ambassador
I would have added one thing: You mention that the main weakness of American armor in Normandy was the inexperience of the crews, by the time the Allies are approaching Germany this is no longer the case. At the Battle of Arracourt in September of 1944 experienced American forces are turning the tables on well equipped but inexperienced German Panzer formations.
@MakeMeThinkAgain
Arracourt was an anomaly. The Americans then got next to nowhere for the next six months, with even a retreat in the Ardennes.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Arracourt was a perfect example of what well trained Sherman tank crews could do against a superior armored force(it was no "anomaly", the U.S. 4th Armored Division trained for years before landing in Normandy). And why did they get "next to nowhere"? Fuel and supplies were diverted elsewhere, so the Third Army had to halt it's advance(kinda hard to go anywhere without fuel, eh?). This halt gave the Germans time to dig in and reinforce the First Army and Fifth Panzer Army. Not to mention the exceptionally rainy weather hampering offensive operations. Then after Metz was captured, the Americans came up against the Siegfried Line.
In the first version I got snagged hard on the bad reference to GMC... so glad to hear that go by smoothly now
The closing statement is... Interesting. It poses the old question that every person who has ever studied the 2nd World War in depth will encounter, 'Quantity over Quality' and so on. But what makes a difference isn't whether one is producing Shermans and the other Panthers. The distinction between the Western Allies and Germany is one of industrial capacity and overall industrial self-sufficiency. The US and Britain, combined, excluding the colonies, have multiple times the industrial capabilities of Germany, both by virtue of protected manufacturing facilities (protected from bombings), more modern production machinery (the German industrial machine has been rolling out war materiell for 6 years now and even further back considering the rapid re-armarment, while the US had the capability to modernize its factories, free from that strain) and a bigger manpower pool of specialized workers. The US could be producing bloody Maus and would still outproduce the Germans in raw numbers.
The only thing 'balancing the scales' a bit is the fact that the US has to maintain a massiver production chain over the Atlantic, under threat from U-Boats (even reduced). But still, the idea that there is any chance that the Germans had a low-cost viable solution that could've equaled Allied numbers, and they chose to ignore it in favor of bigger tanks is an illusion.
A bit late to the game here, but... hey, gotta love a crew dedicated to the truth.
Good on 'em, truly.
Hol' up.... Where is the Aral Sea? Some of the Great Lakes region looks like they're missinf, too.
They mentioned in a previous video that, when creating the map, the layer with all the bodies of water accidentally got shifted westward, so all the lakes and rivers are in the wrong position 😅
Good you kept the not-so-strong-points joke in. Didn't notice errors in the first round, good job you came back though.
Kudos to the WW2 'gang' (Indy et al) to admit mistakes and bring in an 'expert' to help re-tool a video.
👍
☮
Thank you for the lesson.
Favorite tank is the m4 Sherman and the Sherman m4a1 i think its called it was more powerful than its previous model faster better gun.
A dramatic improvement in quality of the presentation.
I seem to remember reading in Wikipedia that Wet Stowage was issued as a field modification kit. However, I've not seen any reference to the kit being fitted in the field.
The Firefly (and the 17 pounder) had problems with sloped armour. There is a glacis plate in a German museum (Munster?) with marks from 5 hits by a 17 pounder. The problem is probably overfilling of gunpowder.
As far as the 76mm gun is concerned, it was plagued by a phenonmenon called The Shatter Gap. Eisenhower had good reason to complain about this.
The Germans discovered that their standard 16 tonne bridges could handle the Tigers. So movement was not that much of a problem. Except for lack of fuel.
19 44 long, nice
Good stuff WW2 team
Appreciate it!
16:27 Molybdenum! Try saying that three times fast! Which is why here in Canada it is often called "Molly". Look up Kitsault, BC, a former Molly mine, and now a ghost town, frozen in the 1980s when it shut down and everyone left.
I agree Tiger II were gas guzzler and was prey to shots into its flanks. But the German heavy and super heavy tanks were useless as they couldnt cross bridges due to their heavy weight.
Quantity has a quality all its own!
Stalin