If you've retired - early or otherwise, would you feel more confident had you waited another year or more? Are there any experiences you can't imagine giving up had you waited longer? Let us know in the comments!
The content, conversation, and level of production of your video's is so valuable, yet it feels like I am listening to two buddies having a beer. Delivering that level of content so effortlessly is such a skill -- thank you! I share your videos with my husband, and tell him all of the time that more men need this type of male relationship in their lives, and I am so grateful for your videos and for both of you. We have a 2024 retirement date, and thankfully our daughter is 11 now, and we will have more time with her and her 2 grown brothers, and our two cutie pie grands (that also live close by). During our decision making process, we determined that time is the only thing in this equation that is finite and also predictable, so we planned accordingly but never moved the marker on the date. Amazing things began to happen, so I implore people to begin to visualize what you really want, and then build a plan and have faith and trust, but really try to keep the date fixed. Watch what happens! It's amazing. You can't get time back, like the gift of 2 hours of watching a show with your daughter like Jason shared. It's those "simple" things that that enrich our lives. Thank you for sharing your journey with all of us. It is much appreciated! (We just returned from a 16 day road trip with our daughter and dogs in our RV with very little internet/cell service and I was SO excited to see your video notification upon our return. We can't wait to take even longer trips with her after he retires)
Thanks, Dianna. We really appreciate the kind feedback. Your guidance is really great - thanks so much for sharing it! It sounds like you and your family are on a great path. We wish you all the best in achieving all your goals!
The market generates fear because it goes up and then it goes down. I agree with your comments in the video as the math part of retiring is easy and it is prepping yourself for the rest of it that can be hard. To that end I have spent the last several years prepping myself by testing out new hobbies (e.g. flying an ultralight, learning the piano, learning another language.) To me retirement isn't about sitting down and not working but acknowledging that time is the most valuable asset and you can always do little things / side hustles that bring you joy if needed. To me the fear isn't that I will run out of money, but the fear that something tragic will happen before I get to truly enjoy retirement.
Jason, the story about you and your daughter was heart warming. I'm so glad that you are reminding people of the most important "WHY" of all of this. I really wish I had realized all of this sooner in my life.
Very well said. My husband and I are retiring in about 2 months and I would not consider another year. One thought that has stuck with me for years as we have prepared for FIRE is "you can't buy back time, no matter how much money you have." Thank you for all the work you put into your videos. You give us a view into early retirement that is not often discussed.
Thanks, Loreen! Congrats on being so near the finish line, yourselves! You are 100% right about time. Best wishes to you both. Please keep us posted on your journey!
Hmm, interesting topic and certainly no 'one answer' for everyone. But time is the most valuable asset we have, and you never know when that ends. I was pushed out in 2019 in a massive layoff wave, otherwise, I would still be working in the same job today. I'd never really thought a lot about retiring early. And initially after being let go I thought I wanted to work again. But within a couple months, I dropped 30 lbs and felt less stressed. And the thought about relocating somewhere or commuting simply because of a job, wasn't appealing any longer. And the field I was in, all jobs were stressful to me, on-call, different shifts, etc. As the weeks-months-now years moved on, I was like "Meh", I can make it. The big question is "What's enough?" If you keep pounding away another 1-2-3+ yrs, will you survive, will you miss out on time with friends/family?
I think about this often. We targeted 2021 for years as the "end", since our daughter would be heading off to college and it seemed like a natural cut-off point. Had I waited until mid-2022 to stop, I may have postponed even further due to the dip in the market, even though it only really changed our draw-down rate by 1/10ths of a percent. Still glad to be done. I worked in a supply-chain-centric electrical hardware development industry that became quite a circus after my departure. And by circus, I mean dumpster fire. :)
Thanks for sharing your own experience, Jon. That's great perspective re: what it would actually mean in $ had you waited longer to stop working. It's easy for us all to forget to do the math when an emotional response seems so much easier as human beings! Glad to hear you avoided that dumpster fire as well. Best wishes to you.
I’m very grateful you did retire…this channel has been a VERY influential source of information for me. The questions you both go back and forth with I’ve been asking myself for 4 years. So to see and hear you both discuss your thoughts, worries, plans have greatly help my Wife and I get more comfortable with idea. Nearly all your conversation I’ve had with myself! Five years ago I had a sabbatical and my Son and I took a month and went camping around the US…that started my path towards retirement…
Jason here - Thanks very much, Onemorebend. I appreciate the feedback very much. Eric and I get a lot out of making this content and it's really rewarding when viewers like you take the time to share your thoughts with us. Wow, that sabbatical sounds great! I bet it was a really memorable trip. Best wishes to you
Great discussion and great to hear Jason's hindsight perspective. It seems like the chronological time constraints of life have a huge impact on the emotional part of retirement. Time spent with children still at home, Time spent with aging parents while they're still around, Time spent traveling that would be difficult or impossible while working full time, Time spent doing activities while you are still young and healthy enough to do them, etc. Time spent is the operative word. Retirement is a financial engineering exercise to buy Time for doing things other than paid work that have value to you. The spreadsheet analysis is fun and all, but I like how you are discussing the value of the Time spent - hard to measure, but that Time has so much value.
Jason here - thanks, Rachel! So glad you enjoyed it. We continue to watch anime together so I'm still very much enjoying the time we spend on this rather simple + fun pursuit together. Though I enjoyed the apple pie we baked together yesterday even more :)
@@jondiaz3475 FIRE is gaining more and more popularity in europe too, but it's still a niche. The principal is the same of course but we don't have a roth ira here, so there is currently no tax deferred strategy. We have some advantage regarding the health insurance though, which is based on the income and capped at 900€ monthly if you earn 5000€/month or more and if you don't go for private insurance which is not necessary in germany because the national insurance is very good ( in the fire case of course, if you are employed the company pays half of that). My stock portfolio contains 70% msci world and 30% msci emerging markets (quite common in europe fire community).
You've made amazing use of that time you've had, makes it easy to say 'yep, good decision to not work 1 more year'. Me... I've squandered my first 7 months of RE so far, other than some projects around the house (which I could have outsourced easily with a fraction of the money made working) I've done basically nothing. Had I still been working that 1 more year, I would have missed out on absolutely nothing of significance. Easy to see that now, didn't predict it before obviously or I would have done another year.
Hi Kelly, Jason here. I'm sorry to hear you're feeling this way, though I doubt you've squandered your time. We all need to decide how best to move into this next phase of life. Depending on the careers we come from, our personalities, and lots of other factors, some people take more and some less, time to ramp down into RE. What's next for you? The best day to start something new is yesterday, and the second best day is today. Best wishes to you in whatever lies ahead for you, Kelly.
The "Attack on Titan" part hit me because, quite frankly, I look forward to being able to power through a whole TV show in a weekend when work isn't a problem anymore. Don't get me wrong, I plan to do plenty of other stuff...but the occasional binge-watching session? That sounds great. And of course, since it's something you watch with your daughter, it's a real bonding experience.
Thanks, Nae. As someone who loves movies and great TV, it's definitely something I looked forward to as well - and seem to be capitalizing on nicely! Best wishes to you. -J
I’ve been binge watching your videos. 48yo fantasizing on FIRE here. I so enjoyed and appreciated this conversation. It reminds me of the color of money movie conversation…. The money is never enough to some people and we have to say enough and be satisfied to some extent… or we will work and die with a fat bank account with nothing to show for and no family time to be enjoyed.
Retirement is such an individual financial and emotional decision and even if you're sure in one moment there can still be some doubts. I decided to retire in May at 55 having given my company 6 months notice. Before I left they asked me to come back end of September on a year's contract and I found myself saying yes. It seems sensible financially but I think for me it also works on an emotional level and will be a good transition; I'm going back on my own terms with reduced hours, had a good break, done a lot of travelling gone inside my head a bit and it's definitely temporary. My guess is in a year I'll be looking back to this summer missing the freedom but I think I'm lucky to have been able to play it this way.
Very true, Caroline. The emotional nature of these decisions is often underappreciated. It sounds like though through your options. I hope they work out well for you. The good news is that you can always change your mind! Best wishes to you
It is unbelievable how this conversation between you two reflects thoughts that cross my mind day in day out...My husband and I reached our FIRE number back in June and I am horrified with myself as I am having a hard time to let my professional life go which does not make sense at all - I come up with all sorts of excuses. We worked so hard to be in the position we are right now, but I am just frozen by fear. I am 47 and peaking my career which means crazy hours of work, high level of stress and all the good stuff you guys know of, but at the same time that sense of belonging and recognition (on top of the nice income) are so hard to let go... I think the psychological aspect of FIRE cannot be overlooked. At least in my experience this seems more difficult than the years of saving and dreaming about my freedom which by the way is now on my reach and I cannot bring myself to cease it.
Jason here - Hi Andrea, I'm sorry to learn it's been such a struggle. What is worth pointing out is how common what you're feeling is. I talked to someone else just this morning saying the very same things. We all need to choose when the time is right. I'd encourage you to spend some earnest time reflecting on why you're holding back. Is it a lack of confidence in the numbers? A fear of how you'll spend your time? If it's belonging and recognition, how might you find that elsewhere? Believe me, I understand this well and have written about it a few times on the blog. We all need to find that validation + motivation, and become comfortable that our career isn't the only place we can get it. I wish you all the best in finding your new sources of reward in life. Best wishes to you.
@@TwoSidesOfFI Hi Jason, thanks so much for taking the time to answer my comment. This is greatly appreciated! Looking deep inside I think this is just the fear of throwing my career away and for some reason regretting it. I love hearing your experiences as I see that you were also career driven and yet you seem to be in peace with the decision you made which is quite encouraging frankly. I have given my notice as Dec 31,2022, but due to the nature of my role (I am a Controller) I ended up extending for a few months so I can support the year-end and audit process. Perhaps giving myself a bit more time will bring me more comfort with my decision. Anyhow, I hope you guys continue sharing your insights and looking forward to the next video!
@@andreadaroz9673 You're very welcome. I hope this time provides the space to bring comfort to your decision making process and perhaps a cleaner break with work after supporting year-end activities. Best wishes to you and thank you for your support!
Another great conversation guys. Definitely where I am living right now. I plan to retire at the end of 2023 and my company is making it very attractive for me to stay another six months or longer. The additional savings is not insubstantial so it’s very tempting to stay on to perhaps buy a couple of “toys” or increase my portfolio balance that much more. I balance this against the possibility of missing out on experiencing a richer life or the danger of dying with a large pot of money. My mother died far too early due to cancer at the age of 67. She and my father worked as long as possible to save for retirement only to die the year after finally pulling the trigger. She regretted not traveling while she had the opportunity. So I will probably pass on the extra savings…which in reality would most likely benefit those who survive me…and begin my next season of life sooner than later. Appreciate you guys.
Thanks for sharing such personal experiences, David. Companies sure are good at getting us to consider staying longer than we'd like, aren't they? As one who spent years in roles doing that very thing with associates on my team, I get it completely. That said, it sounds like you're thinking through this in the right way. It seems likely you'll make the best decision for your own case when that time times. Best wishes to you, and thanks so much for your support.
Another great episode! What is enough? This is a very individual but important question that does get answered as one begins to put numbers to essentials and nice to haves in budgeting for retirement. This gets back to the whole lean fire, fire, and fat fire. I have found that what is enough also changes with life circumstances and age. Being thankful and grateful for having the necessities of life taken care of also reduces what you really need in life to be happy. Jason was spot on in his observation of lost time and missed family or experience cost in working one more year. The “soft stuff” of great, “You hit FI, now what?” is perhaps a significant oversight in a lot of plans.
Thanks, Pedro! So glad you liked it. You make several great points - thanks for sharing. Getting beyond the numbers is indeed the name of the game. Best wishes to you
Really love the show - Many thanks for doing this! Appreciate you putting time in making these videos and being willing to share your experiences in such a sincere and thoughtful way. Below are some topic suggestions. Would love to see if you could cover these when you get a chance: 1. FIRE and health: How do you prioritize your health? Are you able to eat healthy and exercise? I'm just concerned that being at home more, having easy access to pantry and being surrounded by delicious wine, could create more opportunities for bad eating and drinking! 2. FIRE with kids - How did you go about dealing with uprooting your kid and simply moving? (I know you have an episode on "Teaching Our Teens About FI and Money". This question is more around executing FIRE with kids - moving them out of their social circle, ensuring that they continue to get good education, and enhancing your relationship with them). Many times, property values are correlated to school districts (low cost of living areas may have weaker schools). So not sure if you decided to go for a private school. Also, are you really able to spend more quality time with your child or ended up just being a dad who now hovers around at home more :) 3. FIRE and purpose: Have you found your purpose or are you still in the process of discovering it? From what I can imagine (and have heard some retirees say), I'm concerned that an aimless life could get pretty sad without a defined purpose Thanks again!
Jason here - Thanks for the feedback and the questions! We truly enjoy sharing these videos (and podcasts) with the community and are glad to learn you've found value in the content. 1) in my case it's definitely easier. no all-too-convenient business lunches, restaurant meals out during travel, eliminating/reducing very defined daily schedules, and removing excuses to exercise. i walk + hike nearly every day now and have all the time to do it vs. before. more often than not, i've seen particularly early retirees really prioritize health and make marked improvements vs. their working years. 2) this is of course a question to consider individually. in our case, we timed our move with the summer between middle school and high school for our daughter. as we talked about in our two-part Where to Live series, there were a lot of factors to consider - and her view was key to have as part of that! private schooling is not part of our plan so indeed, public school quality was a major factor in our choice of where to move. th-cam.com/video/CoD8Pgbo3EE/w-d-xo.html and yes, definitely getting more time together the past few years. i talk about this a bit in the recent One More Year ep. th-cam.com/video/b7Q17tDXXSU/w-d-xo.html 3) i suspect it will be a lifelong journey and i'm becoming increasingly ok with that. eric + i have talked about this numerous times on the show over the past 1.5 years. it's a fascinating transition to go from a career identity to one that is absent that. for me, i'd never use the word 'aimless' to describe my present state. i'm happily exploring numerous areas of interest, and now have the time to do so without fear of 'wasting time'. that said, i don't mean to trivialize your question. this is certainly an important topic area to consider and all too many do wait until after they stop working to do so. this has a high degree of risk, as those who retire only to regret doing so find out sometimes. thinking about what you are "retiring to" is certainly worthwhile. but people require different levels of concreteness here so it's important to know yourself.
@@TwoSidesOfFI Thank you Jason for taking time to respond to these. Love your style of responding to each question #1-3 specifically - you must be a scientist or an engineer or both ;) I guess these questions represented some of my apprehensions around following the FIRE path but your answers are pretty reassuring. Yep, the all-too-convenient business lunches, travel and corporate lifestyle definitely offers ample opportunities/excuses to mess with ones health. I would assume that in the true spirit of FIRE, it's about taking control of ones health back just like one would do in case of financial freedom. Regarding kids, definitely makes more sense to move when kids are at the right transition point e.g. going to college or going from middle to high school. Just need to incorporate schools in the location criteria ... or budget some extra $$s for private school depending on kids' needs. Regarding the third question - didn't mean to imply at all that "your" life was aimless! It was more of a curiosity if you had nailed down something that you would call purpose, and pursuing that could give you joy for years to come. Fear of being aimless is my own personal fear that I’m apprehensive about … sorry if it came across wrongly - it seems it’s a non-issue for you. I’m sure your show should already provide you so much satisfaction around educating, entertaining and helping so many folks contemplating retirement. I think it's prudent to try to explore things a bit until one finds something sustainable to keep one energized. But I agree - one does not have to go into retirement ... singularly focused on necessarily a predetermined purpose … ready to become Dalai Lama. The whole point is to now be able to find time to do things that one always wanted to do and discover what gives you joy :)
@@nsghome Once a scientist, always a scientist! No worries at all - I didn't take any offense at all. It's very true that I don't have a single "guiding purpose". For me, having the space to explore was my primary aim. And you're right - this show has been so rewarding to me despite it being wholly outside of what I thought I'd be doing post-RE! I like the way you concluded a lot. I wish you all the best in your own journey. -Jason
I really enjoy and benefit from your conversations. I think about this topic a lot as I near my early retirement date, and knowing I am earning the highest income of my career. And I have concluded, as you have, that you can’t get the time back and you can’t buy it back. I’m REALLY looking forward to having the time and space to fill in my retirement. Thank you for sharing your conversations with us!
I started my own residential architecture firm last year and work from home. It's like being semi-retired because I spend much more time with my wife, kids and dogs. My work is fun again and I don't have to manage staff!
Retired at 58 no pension, now 64 If you want to get all your ducks in a row before retirement. You will never retire. One has to take a leap of faith. Another year would not have change a thing. Retirement is great.
Thanks for flipping the script a bit - getting 2 more years of great memories while in good health…..how many 90 year olds would trade that for a few extra years of work? I think quite a few would take that trade. If someone is seriously concerned about that “1 more year” perhaps they can look at their plan a bit more and tweak a few things (cut back a bit now, maybe work part time instead of quitting entirely). I’m already past my FI # and winding down my career over the next 18 months. Soaking up the time I have with family and friends balanced against realistic work demands. Life is for living!
Great talk guys, thanks. I don’t really fit in the normal FIRE concept since I am already 59 and still working, but nearing the time to give up on the rat race. Our issue is that have a special needs adult child, and I really want to ensure that things are set up for him when we are no longer able to care for him, so at this point I have decided to continue to work just to build that larger nest egg that can help support him in the future. But I am looking forward to the day when I can cut out the stress at work and just deal with the stress at home. ;-)
As a retiree for the last 7 months, I just love being “not rushed”. If I don’t finish a task, no problem, I will do it tomorrow. No more trying to squeeze everything into the weekend and then being a bit down emotionally Sunday evening. I feel quite free!
@Brad K - We’re in a similar position at about the same age also with a special needs adult child. Having extra time to research and plan and just enjoy time with him is part of my “Why for FI.” In addition to ABLE Accounts and Special Needs Trusts (ours will be funded with life insurance proceeds), don’t discount SSDI benefits! They are paid for your child’s life time and inflation adjusted. Best wishes to you and your family.
You will NEVER regret extra time with family. My father passed away recently and I always thought I had more time to golf and spend time with him in a few years when I hit my FI number. I will leave work as soon a humanly possible because tomorrow is not guaranteed. Live for today, let tomorrow take care of itself.
I too keep pushing FIRE. With my current expense numbers I am past FI, but I keep pushing my number. Especially now with rising energy costs I keep adding to my projected RE expenses to be on the safe side.
I'm focused, right now, on the FI part of FI/RE because I recently found a job I enjoy... that said when I disliked my job I was only thinking of the RE part. I really wonder where I will be mentally when I become FI. If I still enjoy my job I will probably "work one more year" -- but will I ever retire early if I enjoy my job? is that something to even consider? (i need to fill my time somewhere) what will I be missing out on when i'm working instead of being retired? definitely questions i keep going back to. (also: i am single; no children. i assume the answer to these questions will change depending on relationship status and other factors that I can't predict right now.)
Jason here - All good questions, Clementina. And thinking about them earlier can only help one formulate a sensible plan that works for you. In my case, I loved many aspects of my job and my colleagues. But I had defined "what is enough", and so I stuck to my plan. I could have worked + saved more, yes. But to your point, I didn't want to miss out on or put off all of the other things I wanted to do! Best wishes to you.
Another great show that spoke directly to my situation. How do you always know what I’m thinking? 😉 Seriously though, like you, I have a HS senior off to college next year. That’s mostly what’s making me think about working another year. I’m curious how you are planning for cost of tuition? Have you done a show on this? If not, I’d love to hear your thoughts ( private vs State University, loans, etc). Thanks again for the great content!
Thanks, Karen! So glad that you liked it. College has come up a few times. By our recollection, the most recent have been our two-part Kids series (part 1 here: th-cam.com/video/ynJd711-R80/w-d-xo.html) and also in the "How We Talk About Money" conversation with Eric and Laura (th-cam.com/video/3e6CG70KQp0/w-d-xo.html). Best wishes to you
Great conversation. The question of how much is enough is something people struggle with all the time. This is an issue for people that don't like to sell stocks either. How much stock gain is enough, 20 percent, 30 percent, more? This is tough for everybody to decide.
Enough is enough! I can’t wait to be retired in 6 months. I too am leaving a great job that I like and I’m making more money than ever by a long shot. It’s funny because I just started reading The Psychology of Money and there was a whole chapter called “Never Enough” about these greedy people taking chances they didn’t need to with bad consequences. This isn’t the same thing but I want to live life on my terms now. I have enough to last me the rest of my life I have no doubt. I actually relish the challenge of growing it and managing it. One more year would just push back the next phase of my life. I can’t imagine ever regretting that I didn’t work one more year.
Congrats on getting to the home stretch! I certainly remember well what it was like to countdown those final months. Isn't that a great book? I wish I'd read it even earlier than I did, but I'm thankful Eric recommended it to me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I wish you all the best in your next chapter. Be sure to keep us posted! -Jason
I will definitely before "pulling the trigger" check where we are in market cycle. If its going up and I know I am ready - then just retire. If it is like last half a year with perspective of big collapse due to high energy etc - I would stay at work for sure for at least one year and take full advantage of buying those sweet juicy equities on sale prices. On average bear markets last 18 months.... "just" 12 more of work can really change perspective of retiring. Like... buy high dividend yield etfs... why? Well I assume that I will already be ready to fire, so buying for 12 months just high yields will significantly increase my comfort and decrease withdrawal rate But tbh, I am not there yet and hell knows what will I do....
Jason here - Thanks for sharing, Bart. The question I would ask is "why"? If the OMY is just to capitalize on fire sale priced equities, that sounds like market timing. If it is more about the security that could come from avoiding retiring in a severe downturn + needing to draw down at the worst time, I understand this much more. Sequence risk certainly is very real, and must be considered as part of our considerations. This is another reason I like the feature in Karsten's SWR toolbox that shows you how your plan would have done under some of the worst conditions possible. I've found considering those cohorts very useful. Above all, we have to do what makes sense for each of us. Best wishes to you.
@@TwoSidesOfFI I'm not sure if I understand "market timing" same as you. Let me explain what I meant. I can't be market timing cuz until reaching my assets I will be constantly investing. It can be year, 2, 5, decade. The day I get my portfolio required value I get my return X. Then I check what is the market, if it is in good condition I simply retire on X. If it is bad or every sign on earth tells in short term it will go down (probably) - then I will stay around 1 year working even though my X by all figures would still allow me to survive downfall of portfolio straight after early retiring. On one hand I am very aggressive and liking risk but when I reach a goal I become superconservative - I need that peace of mind. Having 1 more year would definitely increase my X to X+ which hopefully would prevent me from some minor black swan. I understand the idea of probability of success of portfolio using big historical data but tbh. if I say STOP, I am not taking risk on something that happened but rather focus on future possibilities, reducing any risks. Maybe geoarbitrage as I am not glued to the place I live right now?
My understanding is that in a market downdurn, like the one we have now, your FIRE number is escaping you because your portfolio is losing value. Let's say my FIRE number was 1 million to produce income of $40,000 (4% rule) to cover my projected annual expenses; then, when the market loses 20% I need to keep working until I save the $200,000 loss, or until the market recovers that amount, or a combination. Any of those cases will likely delay my retirement date a year or longer.
@@mcangls That's why having a single FI number is a vastly oversimplified model. It works as a general guideline to inspire people early in the accumulation phase, but there are definitely more factors to consider upon approaching RE.
Jason, you and family might consider checking out SPY X FAMILY. It’s a pretty short series but very well done. Also produced by the same studio as attack on titan I think. Y’all might quite enjoy it! :) - Jen
What I like about this question is that while we focus on FI as a target financial number, this calls into question the variable of time. This really is the heart of why one should aspire to FIRE. As you get closer to FI, and as you age, the value of your time will exceed any money you receive from work (whether you have run those calculations or not, and whether you are able to recognize when it does.... it will indeed happen). I really like how the book 'Die With Zero' framed this - in that you should ultimately strive for Net Fulfilment over Net Worth. So in this question of whether you should work another year/two/three ... you may over work in doing so and have wasted your time for money you'll never spend. Whereas you could have started to exchange some of your money for time freedom to have experiences with family, travel, hobbies, exercise, volunteering, recreational employment... you name it. So rather than just tracking your Net Worth curve and hitting a FI number, you should be considering your age along that curve - and the activities/experiences you want to have at those times. If you're working 100%, what will you be missing out on that can never be done later? By 'time bucketing' in 5 year increments leading up to and into retirement years, planning experiences you want to have - you should have a much better idea of when your Net Worth should peak so you don't overshoot it. That is, when you should begin exchanging your money for time freedom so you don't miss out on... life? If your 'RE' life has been well-though out in terms of where you want to spend your time, and all you can think of when considering one more year is security ('extra cushion', especially when you've already added a % of contingency in your planning), or luxuries/greed as Jason put it - you've probably reached your net worth curve peak or are very close to reaching it. It is time to begin investing in experiences so you can start earning memory dividends, as the author of DWZ defines things. While your Net Worth may begin to decrease, your Net Fulfilment will begin to increase. This is a great coaching question for the RE side of FIRE, which doesn't get enough spotlight. Everyone's answers will be different since we are all unique, though hearing other's answers is still helpful when considering what my RE aspirations are.
If you've retired - early or otherwise, would you feel more confident had you waited another year or more? Are there any experiences you can't imagine giving up had you waited longer? Let us know in the comments!
The content, conversation, and level of production of your video's is so valuable, yet it feels like I am listening to two buddies having a beer. Delivering that level of content so effortlessly is such a skill -- thank you!
I share your videos with my husband, and tell him all of the time that more men need this type of male relationship in their lives, and I am so grateful for your videos and for both of you.
We have a 2024 retirement date, and thankfully our daughter is 11 now, and we will have more time with her and her 2 grown brothers, and our two cutie pie grands (that also live close by).
During our decision making process, we determined that time is the only thing in this equation that is finite and also predictable, so we planned accordingly but never moved the marker on the date. Amazing things began to happen, so I implore people to begin to visualize what you really want, and then build a plan and have faith and trust, but really try to keep the date fixed. Watch what happens! It's amazing. You can't get time back, like the gift of 2 hours of watching a show with your daughter like Jason shared. It's those "simple" things that that enrich our lives.
Thank you for sharing your journey with all of us. It is much appreciated!
(We just returned from a 16 day road trip with our daughter and dogs in our RV with very little internet/cell service and I was SO excited to see your video notification upon our return. We can't wait to take even longer trips with her after he retires)
Thanks, Dianna. We really appreciate the kind feedback. Your guidance is really great - thanks so much for sharing it! It sounds like you and your family are on a great path. We wish you all the best in achieving all your goals!
The market generates fear because it goes up and then it goes down. I agree with your comments in the video as the math part of retiring is easy and it is prepping yourself for the rest of it that can be hard. To that end I have spent the last several years prepping myself by testing out new hobbies (e.g. flying an ultralight, learning the piano, learning another language.) To me retirement isn't about sitting down and not working but acknowledging that time is the most valuable asset and you can always do little things / side hustles that bring you joy if needed. To me the fear isn't that I will run out of money, but the fear that something tragic will happen before I get to truly enjoy retirement.
All too true, Andrew! Thanks for sharing. Sounds like you're setting yourself up for success. Best wishes to you.
Jason, the story about you and your daughter was heart warming. I'm so glad that you are reminding people of the most important "WHY" of all of this. I really wish I had realized all of this sooner in my life.
Thanks so much, K G. I'm glad that it resonated with you. Best wishes to you in all things. -Jason
Very well said. My husband and I are retiring in about 2 months and I would not consider another year. One thought that has stuck with me for years as we have prepared for FIRE is "you can't buy back time, no matter how much money you have." Thank you for all the work you put into your videos. You give us a view into early retirement that is not often discussed.
Thanks, Loreen! Congrats on being so near the finish line, yourselves! You are 100% right about time. Best wishes to you both. Please keep us posted on your journey!
Hmm, interesting topic and certainly no 'one answer' for everyone. But time is the most valuable asset we have, and you never know when that ends. I was pushed out in 2019 in a massive layoff wave, otherwise, I would still be working in the same job today. I'd never really thought a lot about retiring early. And initially after being let go I thought I wanted to work again. But within a couple months, I dropped 30 lbs and felt less stressed. And the thought about relocating somewhere or commuting simply because of a job, wasn't appealing any longer. And the field I was in, all jobs were stressful to me, on-call, different shifts, etc. As the weeks-months-now years moved on, I was like "Meh", I can make it. The big question is "What's enough?" If you keep pounding away another 1-2-3+ yrs, will you survive, will you miss out on time with friends/family?
Thanks so much for sharing, Pete. There's a lot of wisdom in what you wrote. Best wishes to you.
Great post. You touched on my favourite word, “enough”. The world needs to use this world more.
I think about this often. We targeted 2021 for years as the "end", since our daughter would be heading off to college and it seemed like a natural cut-off point. Had I waited until mid-2022 to stop, I may have postponed even further due to the dip in the market, even though it only really changed our draw-down rate by 1/10ths of a percent.
Still glad to be done. I worked in a supply-chain-centric electrical hardware development industry that became quite a circus after my departure. And by circus, I mean dumpster fire. :)
Thanks for sharing your own experience, Jon. That's great perspective re: what it would actually mean in $ had you waited longer to stop working. It's easy for us all to forget to do the math when an emotional response seems so much easier as human beings! Glad to hear you avoided that dumpster fire as well. Best wishes to you.
I’m very grateful you did retire…this channel has been a VERY influential source of information for me. The questions you both go back and forth with I’ve been asking myself for 4 years. So to see and hear you both discuss your thoughts, worries, plans have greatly help my Wife and I get more comfortable with idea. Nearly all your conversation I’ve had with myself!
Five years ago I had a sabbatical and my Son and I took a month and went camping around the US…that started my path towards retirement…
Jason here - Thanks very much, Onemorebend. I appreciate the feedback very much. Eric and I get a lot out of making this content and it's really rewarding when viewers like you take the time to share your thoughts with us. Wow, that sabbatical sounds great! I bet it was a really memorable trip. Best wishes to you
Great video! Yes I can say as well that your content has been very helpful and I certainly appreciate it.
Thanks, RIck! So glad to hear that. We appreciate your support
Great discussion and great to hear Jason's hindsight perspective. It seems like the chronological time constraints of life have a huge impact on the emotional part of retirement. Time spent with children still at home, Time spent with aging parents while they're still around, Time spent traveling that would be difficult or impossible while working full time, Time spent doing activities while you are still young and healthy enough to do them, etc. Time spent is the operative word. Retirement is a financial engineering exercise to buy Time for doing things other than paid work that have value to you. The spreadsheet analysis is fun and all, but I like how you are discussing the value of the Time spent - hard to measure, but that Time has so much value.
Jason here - Thanks, Doug. Time is indeed the operative word! We appreciate you sharing your perspective. Best wishes to you
What a great conversation! Loved the story of Jason having the time to spend with his daughter doing something she enjoys :-)
Jason here - thanks, Rachel! So glad you enjoyed it. We continue to watch anime together so I'm still very much enjoying the time we spend on this rather simple + fun pursuit together. Though I enjoyed the apple pie we baked together yesterday even more :)
I could listen to you guys for hours! Greetings from Germany
Thanks, B B!
I would love a European perspective on early retirement, B B! Because from my years working in Europe, it wasn't something that was really discussed.
@@jondiaz3475 FIRE is gaining more and more popularity in europe too, but it's still a niche. The principal is the same of course but we don't have a roth ira here, so there is currently no tax deferred strategy. We have some advantage regarding the health insurance though, which is based on the income and capped at 900€ monthly if you earn 5000€/month or more and if you don't go for private insurance which is not necessary in germany because the national insurance is very good ( in the fire case of course, if you are employed the company pays half of that). My stock portfolio contains 70% msci world and 30% msci emerging markets (quite common in europe fire community).
You've made amazing use of that time you've had, makes it easy to say 'yep, good decision to not work 1 more year'. Me... I've squandered my first 7 months of RE so far, other than some projects around the house (which I could have outsourced easily with a fraction of the money made working) I've done basically nothing. Had I still been working that 1 more year, I would have missed out on absolutely nothing of significance. Easy to see that now, didn't predict it before obviously or I would have done another year.
Hi Kelly, Jason here. I'm sorry to hear you're feeling this way, though I doubt you've squandered your time. We all need to decide how best to move into this next phase of life. Depending on the careers we come from, our personalities, and lots of other factors, some people take more and some less, time to ramp down into RE. What's next for you? The best day to start something new is yesterday, and the second best day is today. Best wishes to you in whatever lies ahead for you, Kelly.
The "Attack on Titan" part hit me because, quite frankly, I look forward to being able to power through a whole TV show in a weekend when work isn't a problem anymore. Don't get me wrong, I plan to do plenty of other stuff...but the occasional binge-watching session? That sounds great. And of course, since it's something you watch with your daughter, it's a real bonding experience.
Thanks, Nae. As someone who loves movies and great TV, it's definitely something I looked forward to as well - and seem to be capitalizing on nicely! Best wishes to you. -J
I’ve been binge watching your videos. 48yo fantasizing on FIRE here. I so enjoyed and appreciated this conversation. It reminds me of the color of money movie conversation…. The money is never enough to some people and we have to say enough and be satisfied to some extent… or we will work and die with a fat bank account with nothing to show for and no family time to be enjoyed.
Thanks, Kazu. So glad to learn that you're enjoying our content. In life all things must be in balance, right? Best wishes to you
Retirement is such an individual financial and emotional decision and even if you're sure in one moment there can still be some doubts. I decided to retire in May at 55 having given my company 6 months notice. Before I left they asked me to come back end of September on a year's contract and I found myself saying yes.
It seems sensible financially but I think for me it also works on an emotional level and will be a good transition; I'm going back on my own terms with reduced hours, had a good break, done a lot of travelling gone inside my head a bit and it's definitely temporary.
My guess is in a year I'll be looking back to this summer missing the freedom but I think I'm lucky to have been able to play it this way.
Very true, Caroline. The emotional nature of these decisions is often underappreciated. It sounds like though through your options. I hope they work out well for you. The good news is that you can always change your mind! Best wishes to you
Great conversation. So relatable.
Thanks, Patrick!
I love this, particularly your view of 1 or 2 more years of missing out if you don’t “press the button” now. Really insightful. Thank you!
Thanks, Cathy! Very glad you liked it.
It is unbelievable how this conversation between you two reflects thoughts that cross my mind day in day out...My husband and I reached our FIRE number back in June and I am horrified with myself as I am having a hard time to let my professional life go which does not make sense at all - I come up with all sorts of excuses. We worked so hard to be in the position we are right now, but I am just frozen by fear. I am 47 and peaking my career which means crazy hours of work, high level of stress and all the good stuff you guys know of, but at the same time that sense of belonging and recognition (on top of the nice income) are so hard to let go... I think the psychological aspect of FIRE cannot be overlooked. At least in my experience this seems more difficult than the years of saving and dreaming about my freedom which by the way is now on my reach and I cannot bring myself to cease it.
Jason here - Hi Andrea, I'm sorry to learn it's been such a struggle. What is worth pointing out is how common what you're feeling is. I talked to someone else just this morning saying the very same things. We all need to choose when the time is right. I'd encourage you to spend some earnest time reflecting on why you're holding back. Is it a lack of confidence in the numbers? A fear of how you'll spend your time? If it's belonging and recognition, how might you find that elsewhere? Believe me, I understand this well and have written about it a few times on the blog. We all need to find that validation + motivation, and become comfortable that our career isn't the only place we can get it. I wish you all the best in finding your new sources of reward in life. Best wishes to you.
@@TwoSidesOfFI Hi Jason, thanks so much for taking the time to answer my comment. This is greatly appreciated! Looking deep inside I think this is just the fear of throwing my career away and for some reason regretting it. I love hearing your experiences as I see that you were also career driven and yet you seem to be in peace with the decision you made which is quite encouraging frankly. I have given my notice as Dec 31,2022, but due to the nature of my role (I am a Controller) I ended up extending for a few months so I can support the year-end and audit process. Perhaps giving myself a bit more time will bring me more comfort with my decision. Anyhow, I hope you guys continue sharing your insights and looking forward to the next video!
@@andreadaroz9673 You're very welcome. I hope this time provides the space to bring comfort to your decision making process and perhaps a cleaner break with work after supporting year-end activities. Best wishes to you and thank you for your support!
Another great conversation guys. Definitely where I am living right now. I plan to retire at the end of 2023 and my company is making it very attractive for me to stay another six months or longer. The additional savings is not insubstantial so it’s very tempting to stay on to perhaps buy a couple of “toys” or increase my portfolio balance that much more.
I balance this against the possibility of missing out on experiencing a richer life or the danger of dying with a large pot of money. My mother died far too early due to cancer at the age of 67. She and my father worked as long as possible to save for retirement only to die the year after finally pulling the trigger. She regretted not traveling while she had the opportunity. So I will probably pass on the extra savings…which in reality would most likely benefit those who survive me…and begin my next season of life sooner than later.
Appreciate you guys.
Thanks for sharing such personal experiences, David. Companies sure are good at getting us to consider staying longer than we'd like, aren't they? As one who spent years in roles doing that very thing with associates on my team, I get it completely. That said, it sounds like you're thinking through this in the right way. It seems likely you'll make the best decision for your own case when that time times. Best wishes to you, and thanks so much for your support.
Another great episode! What is enough? This is a very individual but important question that does get answered as one begins to put numbers to essentials and nice to haves in budgeting for retirement. This gets back to the whole lean fire, fire, and fat fire. I have found that what is enough also changes with life circumstances and age. Being thankful and grateful for having the necessities of life taken care of also reduces what you really need in life to be happy. Jason was spot on in his observation of lost time and missed family or experience cost in working one more year. The “soft stuff” of great, “You hit FI, now what?” is perhaps a significant oversight in a lot of plans.
Thanks, Pedro! So glad you liked it. You make several great points - thanks for sharing. Getting beyond the numbers is indeed the name of the game. Best wishes to you
Really love the show - Many thanks for doing this! Appreciate you putting time in making these videos and being willing to share your experiences in such a sincere and thoughtful way. Below are some topic suggestions. Would love to see if you could cover these when you get a chance:
1. FIRE and health: How do you prioritize your health? Are you able to eat healthy and exercise? I'm just concerned that being at home more, having easy access to pantry and being surrounded by delicious wine, could create more opportunities for bad eating and drinking!
2. FIRE with kids - How did you go about dealing with uprooting your kid and simply moving? (I know you have an episode on "Teaching Our Teens About FI and Money". This question is more around executing FIRE with kids - moving them out of their social circle, ensuring that they continue to get good education, and enhancing your relationship with them). Many times, property values are correlated to school districts (low cost of living areas may have weaker schools). So not sure if you decided to go for a private school. Also, are you really able to spend more quality time with your child or ended up just being a dad who now hovers around at home more :)
3. FIRE and purpose: Have you found your purpose or are you still in the process of discovering it? From what I can imagine (and have heard some retirees say), I'm concerned that an aimless life could get pretty sad without a defined purpose
Thanks again!
Jason here - Thanks for the feedback and the questions! We truly enjoy sharing these videos (and podcasts) with the community and are glad to learn you've found value in the content.
1) in my case it's definitely easier. no all-too-convenient business lunches, restaurant meals out during travel, eliminating/reducing very defined daily schedules, and removing excuses to exercise. i walk + hike nearly every day now and have all the time to do it vs. before. more often than not, i've seen particularly early retirees really prioritize health and make marked improvements vs. their working years.
2) this is of course a question to consider individually. in our case, we timed our move with the summer between middle school and high school for our daughter. as we talked about in our two-part Where to Live series, there were a lot of factors to consider - and her view was key to have as part of that! private schooling is not part of our plan so indeed, public school quality was a major factor in our choice of where to move. th-cam.com/video/CoD8Pgbo3EE/w-d-xo.html
and yes, definitely getting more time together the past few years. i talk about this a bit in the recent One More Year ep. th-cam.com/video/b7Q17tDXXSU/w-d-xo.html
3) i suspect it will be a lifelong journey and i'm becoming increasingly ok with that. eric + i have talked about this numerous times on the show over the past 1.5 years. it's a fascinating transition to go from a career identity to one that is absent that. for me, i'd never use the word 'aimless' to describe my present state. i'm happily exploring numerous areas of interest, and now have the time to do so without fear of 'wasting time'. that said, i don't mean to trivialize your question. this is certainly an important topic area to consider and all too many do wait until after they stop working to do so. this has a high degree of risk, as those who retire only to regret doing so find out sometimes. thinking about what you are "retiring to" is certainly worthwhile. but people require different levels of concreteness here so it's important to know yourself.
@@TwoSidesOfFI Thank you Jason for taking time to respond to these. Love your style of responding to each question #1-3 specifically - you must be a scientist or an engineer or both ;)
I guess these questions represented some of my apprehensions around following the FIRE path but your answers are pretty reassuring. Yep, the all-too-convenient business lunches, travel and corporate lifestyle definitely offers ample opportunities/excuses to mess with ones health. I would assume that in the true spirit of FIRE, it's about taking control of ones health back just like one would do in case of financial freedom. Regarding kids, definitely makes more sense to move when kids are at the right transition point e.g. going to college or going from middle to high school. Just need to incorporate schools in the location criteria ... or budget some extra $$s for private school depending on kids' needs.
Regarding the third question - didn't mean to imply at all that "your" life was aimless! It was more of a curiosity if you had nailed down something that you would call purpose, and pursuing that could give you joy for years to come. Fear of being aimless is my own personal fear that I’m apprehensive about … sorry if it came across wrongly - it seems it’s a non-issue for you. I’m sure your show should already provide you so much satisfaction around educating, entertaining and helping so many folks contemplating retirement. I think it's prudent to try to explore things a bit until one finds something sustainable to keep one energized. But I agree - one does not have to go into retirement ... singularly focused on necessarily a predetermined purpose … ready to become Dalai Lama. The whole point is to now be able to find time to do things that one always wanted to do and discover what gives you joy :)
@@nsghome Once a scientist, always a scientist!
No worries at all - I didn't take any offense at all. It's very true that I don't have a single "guiding purpose". For me, having the space to explore was my primary aim. And you're right - this show has been so rewarding to me despite it being wholly outside of what I thought I'd be doing post-RE! I like the way you concluded a lot. I wish you all the best in your own journey.
-Jason
awesome discussion guys! appreciate your sharing 😊
Thanks, Nelson
I really enjoy and benefit from your conversations. I think about this topic a lot as I near my early retirement date, and knowing I am earning the highest income of my career. And I have concluded, as you have, that you can’t get the time back and you can’t buy it back. I’m REALLY looking forward to having the time and space to fill in my retirement. Thank you for sharing your conversations with us!
Thanks, Max! We appreciate your support
I started my own residential architecture firm last year and work from home. It's like being semi-retired because I spend much more time with my wife, kids and dogs. My work is fun again and I don't have to manage staff!
Congrats! Sounds like winning to us. Best wishes to you
Retired at 58 no pension, now 64 If you want to get all your ducks in a row before retirement. You will never retire. One has to take a leap of faith. Another year would not have change a thing. Retirement is great.
Thanks for sharing, Ken! Glad you're enjoying retirement. Wishing you all the best
I FIRE'd in June 1 year EARLIER than planned and I'm so glad I did. I'm a different person. No regrets.
Congrats, John! How have your first months been? Any key lessons learned you'd share? Best wishes to you in this next phase of your life
Thanks for flipping the script a bit - getting 2 more years of great memories while in good health…..how many 90 year olds would trade that for a few extra years of work?
I think quite a few would take that trade.
If someone is seriously concerned about that “1 more year” perhaps they can look at their plan a bit more and tweak a few things (cut back a bit now, maybe work part time instead of quitting entirely).
I’m already past my FI # and winding down my career over the next 18 months. Soaking up the time I have with family and friends balanced against realistic work demands.
Life is for living!
Well put! Best wishes to you in making a smooth transition over the next 1.5 years.
Great talk guys, thanks. I don’t really fit in the normal FIRE concept since I am already 59 and still working, but nearing the time to give up on the rat race. Our issue is that have a special needs adult child, and I really want to ensure that things are set up for him when we are no longer able to care for him, so at this point I have decided to continue to work just to build that larger nest egg that can help support him in the future. But I am looking forward to the day when I can cut out the stress at work and just deal with the stress at home. ;-)
Best wishes to you and your family, Brad. Thanks so much for your support
As a retiree for the last 7 months, I just love being “not rushed”. If I don’t finish a task, no problem, I will do it tomorrow. No more trying to squeeze everything into the weekend and then being a bit down emotionally Sunday evening. I feel quite free!
@Brad K - We’re in a similar position at about the same age also with a special needs adult child. Having extra time to research and plan and just enjoy time with him is part of my “Why for FI.” In addition to ABLE Accounts and Special Needs Trusts (ours will be funded with life insurance proceeds), don’t discount SSDI benefits! They are paid for your child’s life time and inflation adjusted. Best wishes to you and your family.
You will NEVER regret extra time with family. My father passed away recently and I always thought I had more time to golf and spend time with him in a few years when I hit my FI number. I will leave work as soon a humanly possible because tomorrow is not guaranteed. Live for today, let tomorrow take care of itself.
Wise words, indeed. Thanks so much for sharing them with us. Very sorry for your loss.
I too keep pushing FIRE. With my current expense numbers I am past FI, but I keep pushing my number. Especially now with rising energy costs I keep adding to my projected RE expenses to be on the safe side.
We've all got to choose our path forward, right? Best of luck to you, An
I'm focused, right now, on the FI part of FI/RE because I recently found a job I enjoy... that said when I disliked my job I was only thinking of the RE part. I really wonder where I will be mentally when I become FI. If I still enjoy my job I will probably "work one more year" -- but will I ever retire early if I enjoy my job? is that something to even consider? (i need to fill my time somewhere) what will I be missing out on when i'm working instead of being retired? definitely questions i keep going back to.
(also: i am single; no children. i assume the answer to these questions will change depending on relationship status and other factors that I can't predict right now.)
Jason here - All good questions, Clementina. And thinking about them earlier can only help one formulate a sensible plan that works for you. In my case, I loved many aspects of my job and my colleagues. But I had defined "what is enough", and so I stuck to my plan. I could have worked + saved more, yes. But to your point, I didn't want to miss out on or put off all of the other things I wanted to do! Best wishes to you.
Another great show that spoke directly to my situation. How do you always know what I’m thinking? 😉 Seriously though, like you, I have a HS senior off to college next year. That’s mostly what’s making me think about working another year. I’m curious how you are planning for cost of tuition? Have you done a show on this? If not, I’d love to hear your thoughts ( private vs State University, loans, etc). Thanks again for the great content!
Thanks, Karen! So glad that you liked it. College has come up a few times. By our recollection, the most recent have been our two-part Kids series (part 1 here: th-cam.com/video/ynJd711-R80/w-d-xo.html) and also in the "How We Talk About Money" conversation with Eric and Laura (th-cam.com/video/3e6CG70KQp0/w-d-xo.html). Best wishes to you
Great conversation. The question of how much is enough is something people struggle with all the time. This is an issue for people that don't like to sell stocks either. How much stock gain is enough, 20 percent, 30 percent, more? This is tough for everybody to decide.
Thanks, Bruce. Good point. Just like setting goals + thresholds for investments, we should do the same for our target assets considering retirement.
Enough is enough! I can’t wait to be retired in 6 months. I too am leaving a great job that I like and I’m making more money than ever by a long shot. It’s funny because I just started reading The Psychology of Money and there was a whole chapter called “Never Enough” about these greedy people taking chances they didn’t need to with bad consequences. This isn’t the same thing but I want to live life on my terms now. I have enough to last me the rest of my life I have no doubt. I actually relish the challenge of growing it and managing it. One more year would just push back the next phase of my life. I can’t imagine ever regretting that I didn’t work one more year.
Congrats on getting to the home stretch! I certainly remember well what it was like to countdown those final months. Isn't that a great book? I wish I'd read it even earlier than I did, but I'm thankful Eric recommended it to me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I wish you all the best in your next chapter. Be sure to keep us posted! -Jason
@@TwoSidesOfFI Will do. I’ve been enjoying following your journey. Great content!
With all the post retirement achievements, don't forget kicking off your Flock of Seagulls cover band.
That would be pretty amazing. I don’t think I quite have their hairdressing skills but you gotta have goals. -J
I will definitely before "pulling the trigger" check where we are in market cycle.
If its going up and I know I am ready - then just retire.
If it is like last half a year with perspective of big collapse due to high energy etc - I would stay at work for sure for at least one year and take full advantage of buying those sweet juicy equities on sale prices. On average bear markets last 18 months.... "just" 12 more of work can really change perspective of retiring. Like... buy high dividend yield etfs... why? Well I assume that I will already be ready to fire, so buying for 12 months just high yields will significantly increase my comfort and decrease withdrawal rate
But tbh, I am not there yet and hell knows what will I do....
Jason here - Thanks for sharing, Bart. The question I would ask is "why"? If the OMY is just to capitalize on fire sale priced equities, that sounds like market timing. If it is more about the security that could come from avoiding retiring in a severe downturn + needing to draw down at the worst time, I understand this much more. Sequence risk certainly is very real, and must be considered as part of our considerations. This is another reason I like the feature in Karsten's SWR toolbox that shows you how your plan would have done under some of the worst conditions possible. I've found considering those cohorts very useful. Above all, we have to do what makes sense for each of us. Best wishes to you.
@@TwoSidesOfFI I'm not sure if I understand "market timing" same as you.
Let me explain what I meant. I can't be market timing cuz until reaching my assets I will be constantly investing. It can be year, 2, 5, decade. The day I get my portfolio required value I get my return X. Then I check what is the market, if it is in good condition I simply retire on X. If it is bad or every sign on earth tells in short term it will go down (probably) - then I will stay around 1 year working even though my X by all figures would still allow me to survive downfall of portfolio straight after early retiring.
On one hand I am very aggressive and liking risk but when I reach a goal I become superconservative - I need that peace of mind. Having 1 more year would definitely increase my X to X+ which hopefully would prevent me from some minor black swan.
I understand the idea of probability of success of portfolio using big historical data but tbh. if I say STOP, I am not taking risk on something that happened but rather focus on future possibilities, reducing any risks. Maybe geoarbitrage as I am not glued to the place I live right now?
My understanding is that in a market downdurn, like the one we have now, your FIRE number is escaping you because your portfolio is losing value. Let's say my FIRE number was 1 million to produce income of $40,000 (4% rule) to cover my projected annual expenses; then, when the market loses 20% I need to keep working until I save the $200,000 loss, or until the market recovers that amount, or a combination. Any of those cases will likely delay my retirement date a year or longer.
@@mcangls That's why having a single FI number is a vastly oversimplified model. It works as a general guideline to inspire people early in the accumulation phase, but there are definitely more factors to consider upon approaching RE.
The only thing more fire than FIRE is Attack on Titan. That show is so damn good!
RIGHT? Amazing. -J
You will always want to work one more year. Just retire on the date you originally planned.
I was pretty happy to not work one more year :) -Jason
Jason, you and family might consider checking out SPY X FAMILY. It’s a pretty short series but very well done. Also produced by the same studio as attack on titan I think. Y’all might quite enjoy it! :) - Jen
Thanks for the recommendation, Jen! -Jason
What I like about this question is that while we focus on FI as a target financial number, this calls into question the variable of time. This really is the heart of why one should aspire to FIRE. As you get closer to FI, and as you age, the value of your time will exceed any money you receive from work (whether you have run those calculations or not, and whether you are able to recognize when it does.... it will indeed happen).
I really like how the book 'Die With Zero' framed this - in that you should ultimately strive for Net Fulfilment over Net Worth. So in this question of whether you should work another year/two/three ... you may over work in doing so and have wasted your time for money you'll never spend. Whereas you could have started to exchange some of your money for time freedom to have experiences with family, travel, hobbies, exercise, volunteering, recreational employment... you name it. So rather than just tracking your Net Worth curve and hitting a FI number, you should be considering your age along that curve - and the activities/experiences you want to have at those times. If you're working 100%, what will you be missing out on that can never be done later? By 'time bucketing' in 5 year increments leading up to and into retirement years, planning experiences you want to have - you should have a much better idea of when your Net Worth should peak so you don't overshoot it. That is, when you should begin exchanging your money for time freedom so you don't miss out on... life?
If your 'RE' life has been well-though out in terms of where you want to spend your time, and all you can think of when considering one more year is security ('extra cushion', especially when you've already added a % of contingency in your planning), or luxuries/greed as Jason put it - you've probably reached your net worth curve peak or are very close to reaching it. It is time to begin investing in experiences so you can start earning memory dividends, as the author of DWZ defines things. While your Net Worth may begin to decrease, your Net Fulfilment will begin to increase.
This is a great coaching question for the RE side of FIRE, which doesn't get enough spotlight. Everyone's answers will be different since we are all unique, though hearing other's answers is still helpful when considering what my RE aspirations are.
Thanks, Brad. Well put